Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, where we
have conversations with people who have died,
experienced a glimpse of the other side, and
return to talk about it. What can we learn from
these experiences? How can a belief in the afterlife
provide hope for your life right now? That's
what this show is all about. But before we jump
into today's discussion, I just wanted to mention
that it includes a suicide attempt, nothing graphic,
but if that's something triggering or distressing
for you, you might want to skip down to another
episode. I hope you'll stick around because our
79 year old guest is entering the final chapter
of her life and reached out specifically to us
with a desire to leave her message to the world
right here on this podcast. So here we go. We
are so happy to have a really special guest with
us today, Billie Kay Rains, coming to us from
deep in the heart of Texas. How are you, Billie
Kay? I'm good, very good. Well, I know... down
there in Texas and a lot of the southern United
States, well and central and northeastern, there's
been horrible storms lately and I hope you're
okay. You must have power or you wouldn't be
with me today, but are you keeping warm and safe?
Oh, yeah, it's I'm in Kerrville and the big flood
in the 4th of July that wiped us out here and
now this This is exceptionally cold a lot of
the wildlife has died and the birds and so forth
and the stray cats But yeah, it's really bad
happens occasionally Yeah must well before we
jump into your near -death experience and a lot
of other things that we're gonna be talking about
today I'd love our listeners to get to know you.
So tell us a little bit about Billy Kay I was
born in East Texas in a small town called Lufkin.
I was raised going to a Baptist church. My parents
were not religious that I knew of. They would
drop us off and pick us up. I married well there.
I was 27 years old and all of a sudden I wanted
to find God and I didn't think he was in the
church that I grew up in. I knew nothing really
about God, but I was searching. So I would invite
anybody into my house that would knock on the
door. Jehovah Witness, Mormon, I don't know who.
I'm gonna listen to all of it, but there's nothing
special about me. I'm just a Texas girl that
grew up in a small town, got mixed up in the
wrong thing, and sent me to hell. Well, we might
as well jump into it from right there. Tell me,
how old were you when this experience started?
It was 1973. I was 27 years old. Okay, what was
going on in your life that led to this? I was
searching for God and I finally wound up in all
the wrong places because I wound up in Transcendental
Meditation in Houston. I was married to a man
who was wealthy in that town. And so I had a
lot of money and a lot of time on my hands. I
lived about an hour and a half from Houston at
that time. And so I would travel to Houston often.
And I don't know who I met there or maybe it
was a friend in Lafayette. But anyway, they introduced
me to this guru from India with a red dot on
his head. And so I got into transcendental meditation.
And I don't mean exercise. I mean the whole shebang.
Also astral travel. So here I am looking for
God and I'm not finding him in all these churches
and now I'm going in the opposite direction which
is a new age type direction and I found myself
I had two small children I had a son that was
maybe three three and a half and a five -year
-old daughter and a precious pet that I loved
and a wonderful husband and As I went into this
transcendental meditation and so forth. I kind
of rose above anything that was important in
my life. I'm looking above everybody. I don't
see them anymore. I'm hearing weird voices that
are chanting, talking to me and so forth and
I'm losing weight. I was just actually doing
things I would have never done. I got involved
in an affair with a next -door neighbor who was
an airline pilot, a womanizer. I was just living
a total life of sin and it wasn't me. And then
I have this feeling all the time. I had headaches
after headaches. I'm losing weight and you need
to kill yourself. That's the only way out. It
was like a voice talking to me all the time.
Just kill yourself. You know, this is just the
best way to go to get out of this situation.
So when this guy ended our relationship, we were
in Dallas, I drove straight home, walked in the
door. Picked up a bottle of muscle relaxers that
the vet gave for our Labrador Retriever. Swallowed
the whole bottle of muscle relaxers. I wrote
a one -page thing to my husband, a goodbye note.
I don't remember anything I said except the last
thing was I hope this, at least my headaches
will go away. So the next thing that happened
is I wake up in a hot car. It's August in Texas.
It's hot. What had happened is my husband came
home for lunch, which he never does. I was not
responsive. So he obviously carried me to the
car and drove me to the Memorial Hospital in
Lufkin, which is about a 10 minute drive. But
when I came to, I was in the car and it was,
I was alone. The windows were up. The car was
off. The heat woke me up. My hand felt for the
door and I found the handle and I fell out onto
the hot pavement. and I crawled on my hands and
knees. I don't know how far. Wasn't too far.
I don't think I would have made it. But I felt
coolness and my head bumped a rubbery type door
and I went through it. And when I crawled through
it and I looked up, my husband and either one
or two other men in suits, including my husband,
were standing looking at me with their arms crossed.
And I passed out. Now, obviously, I don't know
what doctor was on call that day, but it would
have been one of of the doctors that was in our
circle, that knew us. So the next thing I remember,
I can hear things, but I can't see anything.
And I hear a nurse tell a doctor, her fingernails
are blue and her lips are blue. Now I'm listening
to that. I had no reaction to it and I knew,
I think I knew she was talking about me, but
it didn't register me as like, oh, that's panic.
I had no, it was like, Didn't mean a thing and
I don't know in between each one of these I have
no idea how much time went by The next time I
heard her say her fingernails are black and her
lips are black Why don't you just let her die?
She tried to kill herself. She doesn't deserve
to live That crushed me. I was like now I knew
they were talking about me and I tried to kill
myself because I did not know why I was there
Then I heard nothing and I'm in a blackness that
cannot be described. I don't think I'm standing.
I'm not laying down, and I am aware of I'm comfortable.
I'm not hot. I'm not cold. I'm curious. I don't
know that I am. I don't know who I am. I don't
know if I have a name. I don't know about...
Nothing crossed my mind as far as children, family,
or myself. All I was curious about was, it's
so dark. I wonder if I can see my hand in front
of my face. And I know I tried, but of course
I could not. And so, and I don't know how long
I'm in this state, but I sense a presence over
my left shoulder. And I assume I turned because
I saw the presence. It was a demon. It was large.
It was just out of arm's reach of me. I knew
it was a demon. I wasn't afraid of it. for some
odd reason, but I knew what it was. I'm looking
at it with my mouth open if I had one because
it was the strangest thing I ever saw. It had
a body and arms and legs and a head. I cannot
remember the head or the face. I don't know if
it was because it was hideous enough that I can't
remember it, I've blocked it out, but I was so
focused on the body of this thing. It had long
arms. It was claw -like. It was kind of a lizard
sort of skin. But the trunk of the body was something
I couldn't... There were tubes that are about
an inch wide that made up the trunk of this body.
And each one of those tubes had a different color
liquid flowing through it. And it lit up... The
whole thing was... He was lit up from the inside.
That's why I could see him. I mean, it was like
a Christmas tree. He was so lit up. And over
the years, as I've thought about it, I was in
utter darkness. He lit up, but he put off no
light in that dark place. But of course I could
see him. When he lunged for me, I screamed. And
at the minute I screamed, I'm sitting up on the
table. I'm in the hospital, and they're working
on me. And I'm saying, please don't let me go
back. I'd fall back down. And I'm back with this
thing again, trying to grab me. He never touched
me, and he never reached me. This happened three
times, and then the next time I set up, I was
in a room that was maybe eight feet wide, small
room. I sat straight up. I was so cold, I was
shivering. My teeth were shivering. I was laying
on a metal table with nothing under me and nothing
over me. My husband was sitting in a chair at
my feet over to the right. And he jumped up and
opened the door and he said, bring me a blanket.
And from that point to the next thing that happened,
I have no memory except that I was terrified
that I would do this again and go back to where
I had been. So I asked my husband, please take
me somewhere where I can be monitored so that
I don't do this again because I don't have any
control over it. I don't think I did. And so
he agreed to that and he drove me to Houston
that night. and I was put in a mental facility.
I wanted that. We agreed and signed paperwork
that it would be for 30 days, there would be
no medication, nothing at all. It just observing
me. At the end of maybe three weeks, I was told
by the physician there that we're going to use
shock treatment on you. And that's not something
we had agreed to. And they were not supposed
to be medicating me. It turns out they were.
In Texas, at that time, they would have to lay
a sheet of paper by your bed and type on the
line whatever medications. And they were doing
that, but it was so minuscule, you would need
a magnifying glass to see it. And so I called
my husband. I told him, he said, I'm coming to
get you. I think I called him late at night.
He said, I'll be there in the morning. In the
meantime, a friend of ours from Dallas that we
knew through business, He came all the way from
Dallas to witness to me, and that man came to
the room, and for the first time in my life,
I understood what it meant for Jesus to die on
the cross. I had an experience there. That was
my first real experience with God. What was unusual
about that is when he finally left, two nurses
kept trying to get into my room over here to
the left, and I assume it was to... They were
going to go ahead and do shock treatment. They
had to do certain things to do that for me. They
couldn't enter and they're telling, they're saying
to each other, why can't we come in the room?
And she said, what is that gold light? We can't
even, you know, it won't let us go in the room.
So they never were allowed in that room. And
my husband showed up the next morning and he
walked in the room. He picked up the piece of
paper. He said, they are medicating. I see this
right here. So he took his suit coat off and
he put it around my shoulders. I had on a gown
and I was barefoot. And he walked me past the
desk, down he says, open the door, because where
we're at? Those are very secure places and you're
locked in. One is a metal door with a glass with
metal in the top. And the doctor says, we're
not gonna let her go. He said, you are gonna
let her go. Thank God I had a husband that had
means who knew people. I mean, Charlie Wilson,
the congressman was my next door, not our best
friend. There's people to call, okay? So we were
at the door and he's screaming, my husband's
screaming, let us out. opened the door and he
was in cowboy boots and he was kicking that door
and he was kicking that door and had big dents
in it, big dents. He was going to get out and
finally they came over and they opened it and
he screamed should be dead within 30 days and
we left. So he took me down the streets of Houston
barefoot with his jacket over me and whatever
they were giving me every sound made me scream.
I mean and he rented a hotel room there it took
me three days for this stuff to get out of my
system. And when it did, and he drove me home,
I went out in the back of the house, and I sat
down on the grass, and I said, God, I said, please
don't, please don't ever let me go back there.
If you will show me the truth of salvation, I
don't care what it is, I'll do it. And he did.
And that's why I want to tell this tale. This
is the real story. He showed me the truth and
how he showed it to me. Can you clarify something
for me? Who was the man that came to your room
that night? He was the man who owned the Tafari
jewelry company because we own department stores
and we would go to Dallas to buy at the market
and we had become very good friends with him
and he was a hardcore Christian. And unfortunately
he died early, he died young, he died quite a
long time ago because this was a long time ago.
So was it him that kept the nurses out? Because
you said something about a golden glow also.
I just want to make sure I really understand
this. There was a light in my room, a golden
yellow light. and the nurses talked about it,
because every time they tried, it's like a moon
that kept pushing them back. They couldn't get
through it. And the reason I want to bring this
up, and I'm glad you asked that, and I don't
know that it has any bearing, but when I was
small, my dad didn't want to talk about religion.
His father was a minister, and they didn't get
along, and he didn't go to church. And he didn't
want my mother talking about it either. But I
had to be three years old, because we moved from
that house when I was four. But... Two times
he found me at two and three in the morning in
the backyard on a big oak stump in a ball of
golden light. And he would come running out,
calling my name, and the light would go away.
And I'd say, Daddy, I was talking to Jesus. And
it just freaked him out. It happened twice. And
after that, he locked my bedroom door so I couldn't
get out. I don't know if that has anything to
do with my life as I got older. That light was
there in that room, too, that night. Let me ask
you one other thing I've had other people who
have told me about their horrible hellish type
experiences that also said And I can say this
to you because you're Christian They said at
some point during that experience They called
out to Jesus and they were immediately removed
from it. Is that something that you tried? No
I didn't know anything really about Jesus. I
mean, I was like brain dead. No, I was just fresh
for the time. Yet you were protected. That's
amazing. I was allowed to come back because He
knows the beginning and the end of all of our
lives, I guess. How did your mental health turn
around from that point? Instantly. And within
a month, I gained 15 pounds. I was anorexic almost.
So my weight came back, my depression, everything
that was going on because I was Depression is
the wrong word. I'm telling you I don't know
what transcendental meditation does to you, but
I was like not present. I was somewhere else.
I was controlled by some other entity. I don't
know what it was, but it was gone. And I don't
really understand that either because meditation
in general is not a bad thing. From what I see
but it sounds like you were following someone
that was taking you down some sort of a bad path
with well If you talk about just meditation,
but this was with a guy from India You're worshiping
those gods with those and people don't know this
But if you if you look into transcendental meditation
most people kill themselves They're driven to
suicide. You're worshiping a demon. You're worshiping
in all these moves. Even the exercise is not
good for you because you're in positions to receive
a demon. You're worshiping something you shouldn't
be worshiping. I had no foundation with God at
all to save me from it. I didn't realize this,
but I saw something on YouTube. The danger of
Transcendental Meditation. Just look into it.
It's dangerous. I hear people say, oh, I meditate
all the time. Well, there's different kinds of
meditation. Are you sitting in a pose and doing
your meditation with your hands and doing certain
things? That's the difference, I think. You can
sit and quietly meditate on something. I wouldn't
think that's harmful, but what I was doing obviously
was. And I'm not an expert. I'm not going to
speak one way or the other on this topic, but
I do know that I'm going to get comments and
emails from people saying, I do Transcendental
Meditation every day and there's nothing wrong
with it, but I respect your thoughts and your
opinion and your experience. I'm pretty sure
the whole interview you'll get plenty of comments
about. That's okay. Well, let's keep going then.
Open the floodgates there, Billy Kay. Okay. Well,
what I want to say is I told you I wanted to
do this because I won't be here much longer.
I'll be 80 in a year. I want people to make the
rapture. The churches today, for the most part,
95 % do not preach true salvation. I asked God
to show it to me, and he did. And I didn't want
it when he showed it to me. I thought it. I tell
you, I just, it was awful. You'll find out, okay?
And you're gonna get a lot of comments from people
about that. That's okay. You're either chosen
or you're not. The Bible says He called you by
your name and in your mother's womb. You were
chosen before you were born. And if you are one
of those chosen, when you hear true salvation,
you will take hold of it. So, you know, there's
going to be people that aren't, and that's fine.
But I want to give people a chance. And let's
say you're not chosen, but you listen to everything
I tell you that happened to me that proves that
God is real and that what He told me in salvation
is real. If you miss the rapture, You need to
take a piece of paper and you need to write in
big letters, the rapture occurred and I missed
it. A strong delusion now has been put into my
mind. In order for me to be saved, I must be
baptized and must be born of the water and the
spirit of God. I will not be in the 144 ,000
that will make it. You need to write yourself
a note and how will you know the rapture happened?
Because a lot of people will be missing and they'll
they probably will tell you all kinds of stories
What may have made that happen? But if that happens,
you've missed the rapture Okay I'm just gonna
interject one big thing here before we move on
and that is We have tried our best To keep this
show something that is non -denominational We're
not trying to convince anybody of any particular
religion or anything like that We're listening
to near -death experiences and what people learn
from them So if there's someone out there that
doesn't want to hear what you learned They can
turn it off right now and that's okay and it
won't hurt my feelings and it won't hurt your
feelings but it sounds like we're going down
a path that is more religious than usual and
so There's everybody's warning, I guess, on that
topic, and now I want to set you loose, and I
don't want you to hold back, and I want you to
tell me what's on your mind. Well, I don't want
any denomination. Denomination is the enemy.
There are no denominations in heaven, I promise
you. None. None. So you don't have to worry.
I love this. People are going to disagree all
day long, like you said, with everything you
say. I love it. Keep going. Okay. Here's what
I want to say. I, like a lot of people, I watch
a lot of near -death experiences. And I came
to a conclusion. A near -death experience is
not a true -death experience. And I finally saw
one. And I'm so sorry I didn't save it or know
who she was or... even who it was that interviewed
her. It was a great near -death experience. She
was a very sinful person, and so was I, but she
went to heaven. She went to paradise, and she
was with Christ, and he was talking to her. She
had a wonderful time, and it was beautiful, and
this happens to so many people. Most of these
experiences are paradise. I can't wait to go
back. And then he told her she had to leave,
and she said no. And then eventually he told
her again, yes, you have to go back, and she
said no. And the third time, He told her, you
need to go back. She said, I'm not going back.
And she put her foot down. And Christ said to
her, you don't understand. If you stay now, you
won't be here. You'll be over there. And she
said, when I looked over there, it was nothing
but utter desolation. And she said, I agreed
to go back. And this is what I want to warn people
about. I see so many of these. Oh, I can't wait
to die. It was great. I know where I'm going.
Why does Christ not tell you what you must do
to be saved? Because you have to find that yourself.
The Bible is very clear. You have to seek out
your own salvation with fear and trembling. And
I'll just leave it there and go on. We are so
grateful to recognize the sponsor of today's
episode, Squarespace. If you need a website Squarespace
is the place to help you do it yourself and do
it right. If you need a domain name, yep, Squarespace
is the place for that too. Have you been kicking
around maybe a business idea and now you need
a website to make it a reality? Have you ever
thought about creating a site for your family
or your neighborhood but didn't know where to
get started? Well, I'll tell you, Squarespace
makes it easy. They make it inexpensive. and
now you can build your own home on the internet.
Whether you're writing a book, starting a side
hustle, or own a small business that needs a
website, take it from me with Squarespace. You
can do it yourself and it'll turn out great.
No coding experience necessary. In fact, they
have beautiful templates so you don't need to
be a graphic designer either. SEO tools. shopping
cart, email, it is all there. And right now they're
offering round trip death listeners a free trial
plus with promo code round trip. You'll save
10 % off your first purchase of a website or
domain. I'll put a link down in the show notes
to make it easy to remember. So take a minute
right now, go to squarespace .com forward slash
round trip and get started on your own website
for free. I'm sitting here watching one. And
I said to him, to God, I talked to him and I
said, and don't get me, I mean, I don't, we don't
sit and converse all the time, but he did speak
to me four different times audibly, I'm gonna
get to that. I said, I can't do anything for
you anymore, I'm old, I'm not around people anymore,
there's nothing I can do. And he said, clearly
in my mind, why don't you make your own video
and do your own near -death experience? And I
thought, well, okay. It's harder to do than you
would think, but I find Eric here, so we're going
to go forward with this. Okay, so... I come back
and my husband and I are working out that we
are going to get a divorce. We divorce. And I
go on my merry way living once saved, always
saved. Okay? You know what once saved, always
saved is. You do whatever you want to do. And
since sexual sin, it doesn't matter what it is,
you know, God will forgive me. And I've already
asked him to show me the truth of salvation.
I haven't seen it yet. But I believe I've had
this experience with a man from Trafari Jewelry
Company, and so I really think, boy, I'm saved.
And I asked him anyway to show me the truth,
so I'm thinking I got the truth here. So it's
about five years later, I'm walking through the
State Fair of Texas. And if you've never been
in those big buildings in the State Fair of Texas,
where you go see these wondrous new products,
have you ever been in anything? They're humongous.
It'll take you two or three hours to go through
one, and you're about six right people, abreast,
walking through these things. So I'm walking
with my children and a man says, and a man's
voice over my right shoulder, okay, I want you
to go over there and ask that man for a job.
And I was like, and I looked and there was no
man behind me. And I just, what the? And I just
ignored it, but I found it unusual. So I'm walking
maybe 20, 30 minutes forward in those big pavilions.
Same thing happened again. And I looked over
and it was a little old chubby guy in a little
booth. And I walked over and I said, I'm supposed
to ask you for a job. Now I had a wonderful job
selling high -end women's clothing in Dallas.
I loved my job. I didn't want another job. He
said, you're hired. And I said, for what? He
says, you'll be selling storm doors and windows
and I'll give you a $500 a month draw. And I'm
like, okay, okay. And I took the job. So you
not only heard it, you did it. So congratulations
on that. That can be the hard part. Yeah, just
wait till you hear the rest. Anyway, so I Show
up and I'm there for like three four weeks and
it's just oh, I can't why I'm you know I'm sitting
in the main office and a man walks in his name
was Lacey and I looked up at him and I knew I
am going to marry that man I knew right there.
I'm gonna marry that man now I went and interviewed
for another job when I saw him, and I knew I
was going to marry him, and we did marry 10 months
later. And in that period of time, prior to that,
I changed jobs, and this is important because
a lot of this is going to involve this job. I
applied for North Haven Gardens as a landscape
designer. North Haven Gardens in Richardson,
Texas, it is the largest landscape company this
side of the Mississippi. I applied for that job.
David Pinkus and his father were there for that
interview, and they both hired me. Unfortunately,
they hired me not for exterior, which is what
I wanted. I had no idea what they were hiring
me for. And it turned out that they hired me
as for design sales for interior tropicals only,
which in other words, I would bid malls, atriums,
all commercial buildings for interior plants.
I don't know how old you are, but years ago we
didn't have plants in malls or plants in offices.
I pioneered that, North Haven Gardens pioneered
that business, and I was in charge of that. Okay,
so I'm doing this while Lacey and I are dating,
and we are going to church every Sunday. One
Sunday I'll go to Baptist, next Sunday we'll
go to his church, and then we get married. He
was from Bay City, Texas, so we are married at
Pastor Morris Church in Bay City, Texas, and
we go on our honeymoon to Mexico for a week,
and we come back. And his mother, her name was
Ali Marie, God bless her, she said, we're gonna
go down to the church, I need you to go with
me. And I said, for what? She said, you're gonna
be baptized. I said, no I'm not. She said, you're
going to be baptized again. I said, we'll not
be baptized again. I've been baptized two times,
why would I want to be baptized again? She said,
you're going to the church and you're gonna be
baptized correctly. I said, we argued over this.
I'm in the car with her and I'm just lifted and
we get to the church and he's waiting for us
Pastor Moore and she gets me in this white robe
and I get down in the water and Pastor Moore
says now I'm gonna baptize you in the name of
Jesus and when you come out of water you're gonna
be speaking in tongues and I was like yeah so
he put me under the water I came back out and
I said see no It didn't happen. And so I said,
are you happy to her? And she said, yes. And
I left. Now, when we get back to Dallas, when
it's time to go to church, we don't go to the
right and go to my church. We go to the left.
Because my husband said, no, we're not going
that church anymore. We're going to go to this
church. That was John Kershaw's church. He's
a very famous pastor. He's dead now. And his
church was in Richardson, Texas. There's just
not enough wonderful things you can say about
this man. But anyway, I'm going to that church
for about a year and I see some strange things
going on there. A lot of people are talking in
tongues. A lot of people are getting healed of
this and that. And I'm thinking, you know, these
are nice people and these things are really happening.
I'm seeing it. So it's been about a year and
there's a wonderful evangelist called Lee Stoneking.
He's world famous. He had come there several
times. and John Kershaw were friends. He was
there that Sunday when I showed up. And he's
up there, he claps really loud, it hurts your
ears, you know, you're like, oh man. And it's
just before the service and he's going through
this rigmarole and he's laughing, he's praising
God and he stopped and he said, you, right back
there. And this is the beginning. And he said,
Lord just spoke to me and said, you have not
received the gift of the Holy Ghost. And all
these heads are turning, there's 500 people there
and I'm sitting on the back row with a wall behind
me. And the waves split. He said, you. Now I'm
Baptist, okay? If I had a hat, I'd pull it down
over my head, and I didn't want to walk down
that aisle. But I did. I get down there, and
he's real tall, he's 6 '6 anyway, and he's standing
on the second step, so he looks like he's eight
feet tall, and I'm looking up like this, and
he says, now I'm going to anoint your forehead
with oil, and you're going to keep your hands
up like this, and you're going to say, hallelujah,
hallelujah, and you're going to receive the baptism
of the Holy Ghost. And I was like, okay. I said,
sure. I mean, I didn't believe it at all. I didn't
think I needed it. But anyway, I'm going along
with it. So I do this. The minute that man touched
me with that oil, I went someplace. I mean, I
was like, I was like lifted up and my hands and
my arms went like this and wham! My ring flew
off my hand hit the wall on the other side of
the building. And I... I was so shocked and I
tried to say did you see that or what's happening
and every time I've been trying to speak this
this language is coming out of my mouth and I'm
trying every time I'm and I'm doing I'm trying
to stop it and he said don't try to stop it that's
the Holy Spirit praying through you to God the
Father for you never quench the spirit well I
had the Holy Ghost that was the beginning of
a unbelievable life that was about to occur.
And I couldn't believe it happened. I was on
fire. I mean, in the job I had, I met so many
people. And I brought many people to the church.
Now, this pastor had something that he said,
if you want a really special relationship with
God, you want to fast one day a week on liquids.
And then after six o 'clock, pray for an hour
here in the church. And then in the morning,
between three and six, And people who know the
Bible know what that means between 3 a .m. and
6 a .m. You want to try to, as a sacrifice, roll
out of bed, because it's going to hurt to do
it, and go in there and mumble around on the
floor and cry around on your knees and praise
God. And I did all that. You know, it's hard.
It's hard to do. So I was doing all that. I come
to church after I had... I sat at a drawing table
all the time as my landscape job, and I had a
severe back pain. I'm thinking it's because I
have to I have to work this table all the time
I've been over this table so I go to the doctor
and He starts running all these tests and for
that week and it was several tests He ran I go
I think it's three four times a week that one
week. I was there at least four times I'm telling
them all about the Holy Ghost. I'm telling them
all about Jesus. I'm telling and you know, they
were doing this Oh my god, I can't wait to sleep
probably. I mean, I never saw that but I was
I couldn't shut up so That Sunday we go to church
and the pastor didn't come out like he normally
does. He was late. We were all wondering. He
did come out and he was crying. He said, God
just told me that we're going to believe for
a miracle today or someone's going to die. Everybody
in the church was like, wow. And brother, did
he preach a sermon? I mean, the wind was blowing.
The Holy Spirit was blowing people's hair. It
was quite a deal. And he said, Kay, I want you
to come down here. And I was like, me? And he
said, you. Okay, so I go down there and somebody's
gonna die and it's me. So I go down to the front
and he said, I'm gonna knock your head with oil
and you're gonna be healed. I said, of what?
He said, I don't know, but you're gonna be healed.
And so I said, okay. And so I'm praising God.
He puts the oil on my head. Now, at that instant,
I close my eyes. somebody came up from behind
me and they put their arms around me and held
me and I was just I thought that is so nice that
someone here would do that and I went away somewhere
because I didn't hear it's a large crowd of people
500 people you know clapping and praising God
but I didn't hear anything I was in a special
place because eventually like from a far distance
I could hear them and they got louder and louder
and now I'm back I was going to go over here
to the right because on that front row is a little
lady that's the prayer warrior in that church.
And I thought that was her that had done that.
And so I went over to her to thank her. And before
I could say anything, she said, I know he healed
you because I saw Jesus hold you in his arms.
Okay, so I leave the church. I don't have a backache
at all. I feel great. Everybody's saying, look
at her collar. Look at her collar. She looks
different. And then I get a call from the doctor
the next day, which I think was a Monday, and
they said, why did you miss your appointment
to come back in? And I said, I don't think I
forgot, you know? Well, you need to come back
in immediately and you need to bring your husband.
And I said, why would I need to bring my husband?
That's our protocol and you need to bring your
husband. I said, fine. So I went back in and
I'm sitting, I can still see the man, my husband's
here. He said, you have stage four cancer that's
visible to the naked eye because it has eaten
through the cervix. And I've scheduled surgery
two days from now. And I said, no, I don't have
cancer. I was healed on Sunday. And he said,
I don't think you understand. You're going to
die. if you don't have this surgery and have
something done about this." And I said, I'm not
having it. He said, listen, I'll pay for every
one of these tests out of my own pocket to prove
to you because it's visible to the naked eye.
And I said, okay. We got around to the test that's
called a wet melt. And most women will know what
that is, but you're in the stirrups and so forth.
And the doctor had a nurse, the same nurse that
was standing behind him when they did it the
first time. They're ready to look at it, and
I hear the nurse say, it's gone. And he said,
you're right, it's gone. And those people were
crying when I left, because they saw a miracle.
They knew they saw a miracle. I never knew I
had it. I wondered about that for years, and
I think I know that I was a baby Christian. When
they tell you you got cancer, it's hard to believe
your way out of that. And I believe he healed
me before I could get in that position. But anyway,
he healed me of cancer. Now, I'm coming back
from the greenhouses in Frisco, Texas. In Texas,
we have windbreaks from the, what do they call
it, the dust bowl. Where are you at? I'm in Utah.
I live up in the mountains in Utah. They planted
trees at angles here in Texas because of the
dust bowl, and they're big trees, or were. I
think they've cut most of them down. So I'm driving
along and I'm doing probably 50, 60, 70, I don't
know what the speed limit was. All of a sudden
on my right shoulder, there's a tap twice, too
hard tap. And I screamed and looked back, came
back around, stood on the brake. There was a
freight train coming out of that behind those
trees that I couldn't see going full speed. Now
I'm driving a Volvo, thank God, because I'm standing
on the brakes, and I don't know much about cars,
but once you brake really hard, normally the
car does this. Volvo's don't do that, thank God,
but you get to the point where you just float.
There's no more stopping, you just float. And
so I floated and floated and floated, and that
thing's doing 80 miles an hour, and I was that
close to that train when it stopped. That tap
saved my life. That's one of the many things
that he did, of course. I want to go on now because
this is going for five years. My husband, I had
married and my husband didn't have a job in the
whole time we were married. And so I'm driving
to work to the landscape company and God spoke
to me from the back seat of my car. He said,
Kay, I want you to quit your job. It didn't scare
me. I pulled over to the side of the road and
I said, don't you understand? I cannot quit my
job. I just bought a home, my husband's not working,
and I can't do it. He said, you don't understand.
I'm going to give you your own business, and
your first clients will be Southwest Airlines,
TransWestern Property, and Bonanza Corporation.
And I sat there. I had never thought of working
for myself. I'd been in North Haven for three
years. I loved it there, but there was a lot
of... The designers there, we all worked at a
round table. There was a lot of raw jokes and,
you know, it was not always a pleasant place
for a Christian person to be. And I had had that
feeling, you need to get your job, but I ignored
it, of course. I didn't say anything. I drove
my car straight to the office. I walked in, and
David was there, and I walked in. I sat down
and said, David, I have to quit. I said, I have
to. And I didn't tell him the truth. I said,
I need to spend more time with my children. David
Pinkus, they were a little Jewish family. I loved
them. They were so kind to me. They wore the
little skull cap, and I didn't want to go. David
had called me into the office and told me, God,
I quit talking about Jesus and angels because
the foremen are complaining, okay? He said, I'm
a Jew. I understand, you know, but my division
practically carried that whole company in the
dark. I mean, in the black. So, you know, he,
and he wasn't, he wasn't berating me about it.
but in a very jolly way telling me to quit doing
this, okay? So, okay. Anyway, I go home after
I quit, and for two weeks I crawled to my hands
and knees crying thinking, what am I going to
do? But I was obedient, okay? All I knew was
he was talking to me. The phone rang. It was
Howard Putnam, president of Southwest Airlines.
He said, we only want you. Will you contract
with us? I said, I will. Yes, I will, Howard.
And the next two... called the same day, within
two hours, president of both companies. Will
you contract with us? We only want you. I said
yes. That's a lot of money that I was contracting
for, okay? Two days later, I'm sued by North
Haven Gardens for non -compete. So I go down
to Lovefield, walk into Southwest Airlines, walk
into Howard's office. I lay down and I say, I
said I can't contract with you, Howard, because,
well, they're suing me for non -compete. He picked
it up and he looked at it. He said, you just
give me a minute. So he's on the telephone. David,
yeah. Tower, how you doing? They're talking for
Yale. I see a case here. Looks like you've filed
a suit here. Uh -huh. Yeah, well, what I want
you to know is that she has every attorney here
at Southwest Airlines to fight this suit for
her at no charge to her whatsoever. Yale, that's
right. Okay, I'll tell her. He hung up and he
said, they dropped the suit. Wow, this is amazing.
This is pretty cool. I did have one quick question,
and that is, you had mentioned that God spoke
to you audibly four different times. So how many
have we heard so far? One. Okay, so there's a
lot more to go. All right, here we go. That's
pretty cool about the lawyers in Southwest Airlines,
by the way. Yes, that was, yeah. And where were
we? I was at Howard's office. I mean, I've owned
that business now for a couple of years, myself.
And for some reason, I want to move back to Colorado.
I had lived in Colorado, and I hate the heat
in Texas. I didn't want to be here anymore. My
husband and I were praying about it, and you
know, I did get an answer, and shockingly, I
didn't see the answer until I reviewed it for
this interview that he answered, and it's been
40 years. Because of that, This whole thing kind
of flips around because God gave me a business
and I decided I didn't want it. I wanted to do
that work, but I didn't want to do it in Texas.
I wanted to go to Colorado. I didn't think I
heard from Him. So we fly to Colorado Springs.
We're going to buy a home there. On the airplane,
which was Frontier, I was reading about the Shroud
of Turin and how the scientists had put together
an image of Christ of the Shroud of Turin and
that there was three of those in the world. One
was in the Vatican, one was at the Air Force
Academy there on Colorado Springs. I wanted to
see it so badly. And the lady wouldn't stop.
She wouldn't stop, she wouldn't stop. And now
it's time for us to go back. And so we go back
to the hotel room and I was like, I wanted to
see that so badly. I can't believe we couldn't.
It was right there. I'm driving past it. And
so He said, well, you know, we'll see it next
time or whatever. I said, that didn't suit me.
So I get up the next morning and we had snow.
They canceled our flight. So we rent a car and
we drive around. We wind up at some town homes
that they're building across from the Air Force
Academy. And we're sitting in the snow and facing
the freeway in the Air Force Academy. Somebody
knocks on the window, a tall guy with dark hair.
He says, are you thinking about buying something
here? And we said, yes. And he said, But I said,
there's no one here because of snow that could
show us a home. My wife just cleaned. If you
want to come in, you can come in and see ours,
if you want to. And we looked, oh, OK. And so
we walk in the door. And the first door on the
left, which would normally be an office or a
guest room, there were papers that were stacked
high, little, whatever, like checkers, so you
could walk over it. And so I look at that, and
then I look up in the lightswap, and there's
that image of Christ in that corner that I wanted
to see. And I just walked over and I'm standing
in front of him and I'm in awe. Let me tell you
what, he was five feet 11. He had shoulders like
this. He was a linebacker. I mean, he was buff.
But I'm looking at him and I actually touched
it, which I shouldn't have done. And I'm in the
spirit apparently, because I'm unaware. I mean,
I'm in a stranger's home. I should have never
done that. And this man beside me, he says, and
what do you think caused the image on the shroud?
And I said, I'll tell you exactly what caused
it. It was a burst of radiation, like in Nagasaki,
when it showed the images of the people. He said,
did you know you're right, but we can't tell
people until we can prove it. And he held out
his hand and he says, I'm Dr. John Jackson. That's
the man that's in charge of the whole straddle
sharing project, and he has been. He was the
one that invented the VPA analyzer for NASA.
and that's how he made the 3D image. So it wasn't
good enough that I could go stand 10 feet away.
God brought me to the scientist's door to see
that thing because he knew I wanted to see it.
So we buy a home in Colorado Springs in Palmer
Lake on Virginia Avenue, beautiful solar envelope,
and we sold our home in Allen, Texas. We had
a hard time finding a place to rent. A man on
the telephone. That was God told us to call this
number or give you what you want. It's a beautiful
place on Abrams over by the Dallas Cowboys I
said we can't afford to live there He said oh,
yeah, you can because you can live there for
free You just need to mow the lawn and we had
a service anyway for seven houses. I said, oh,
okay I'll do it, but you have to leave by October.
So we agreed now in that period of time We tried
to sell the business and my CPA wanted to buy
that business So I go to the CPA me and my husband
and we work out the deal of that purchase Unfortunately,
when we come back the next morning, everything
on that paperwork has been changed. We're both
angry at each other, and the deal is off. They're
having a going -away party that day at a couple's
house somewhere in Richardson. I think it was
Nancy. I don't remember her name, but they're
from the church. Now, we didn't know this, but
she said a lady came early, like four hours before
we were supposed to get there. She had our name,
which was a very unusual Czechoslovakian last
name. She said they were going to be... here
today at four o 'clock, is that right?" And she
said, yes. She said, God sent me to give them
a message. Can I wait? And Nancy said, yes. And
she went in and she sat on the heart of that
fireplace and waited for us. And when we get
there, I'm sitting at a table looking at a wall
and there's a big opening here where I can see
into the living room where she's sitting. She
never introduced herself or anything like that.
She did have a heavy accent. I could hear her
accent. But I'm sitting there telling, woe is
me, poor us, this happened, you know, telling
the whole deal what just happened. And then I
noticed she's standing right there beside me.
And she said, God sent me here to give you a
message today. I heard people falling all over
the house. People were dropping. I mean, there
had to be 20, 30 people there. They're falling
on their faces. I'm sitting at a table, so I
can't fall down. And I look up, and I see this
gray mist, and it pushes me down on the table
like this. And I turn to look at her, and her
head goes back, and the anguish comes out. It's
a male voice that said, Kay, I love you so much.
Your business did not sell because I gave it
to you. My seal is upon it If you wish to move
to Colorado You and your husband have to seek
my face at a family altar and I'll reveal the
answer to you For the first time he would pray
with me So we set up a family altar and the next
morning we had He had a big Bible that was a
family Bible with a really hard heavy top and
he it was on the desk And he hollered he called
my name. He said Kay And he said, hurry come.
And the Bible had opened all by itself and you
could see the onion skins moving and it stopped.
I don't know the verse. I know what it said.
I have seen your sacrifice or your works, meaning
your prayer, and you may go with the wife of
your youth to wherever you wish to go and I will
bless your hand at anything you do. So that was
the okay to move. Now the reason I've saved this
for the last, is because when I work for the
landscape company, I had a very important appointment
with a reinsurance company there in the Dallas
area with the president of that corporation to
sign a contract for service. And when I show
up for that office meeting, they take me into
a conference room, all glass, and I'm sitting
with a door behind me and it's just me with my
contract and a pen in my hand. And I hear the
door open and I don't remember that it was a
woman, that it was going to be a woman, but it
was. And she's crying. And I'm facing forward
and I'm like, and she's really crying and it's
getting worse. And I'm thinking, I mean, it was
almost comical. I don't know what to do here.
I'm thinking, do I laugh? I didn't want to embarrass
her. And then it was serious. She is, she's broken
down and she's making her way to me and she's
standing right here. Facing me and I didn't look
at her because I don't want to embarrass her
and I'm I'm thinking what is going on my hand
with that pen starts jumping up and down and
I looked over at that and I'm thinking Why and
then it's my whole arm and I try to hold it and
it threw the pen across the room and all of a
sudden Through my mouth, a male voice comes out
and speaks a language I don't understand. And
then it lets me go. And I turned around and I
said, please don't call my boss. Whatever you
do, don't call Mr. Brinkus, okay? And she said,
don't worry. That's the prayer I have prayed
for 10 years for an answer to that prayer. And
I said, well, I couldn't understand a word. Can
you tell me what he said? And she said, yes.
She said, my husband is a Baptist. We've been
married for 10 years. And I started my own Bible
study. And I came to the conclusion that there's
certain things you must do to be saved. And she
said, he refuses to do it. And he has threatened
to divorce me if I go to a church that does this.
And I said, well, what did he tell you? She said,
he told me, unless I'm baptized in the name of
Jesus and filled with the Holy Spirit, I'll never
see the kingdom of heaven. And that is the true
gospel. And you will find that after Matthew,
Mark, Luke, and John, you will not find the gospel
except in the book of Mark, the last page. Those
are the last words of Jesus Christ, where he
tells you, those who believe and are baptized
shall be saved, the Son shall follow them. They
will speak with a new tongue. They will lay hands
on the sick. They shall recover. If they touch
or drink any deadly thing, it will not harm them.
He explains it right there. That's as he was
sending into heaven. Now Matthew, Mark, Luke,
and John are just a story of Jesus with his life
from their four viewpoints. But after the last
page of Mark into Revelation, the book of Revelation,
you will not find one person that's not baptized
in the name of Jesus, not Father, Son, and Holy
Ghost. And that is the difference. Now, that's
usually a Pentecostal church and some assembly
of gods that will do that. I went to Richardson,
Texas. John Kershaw was a Pentecostal. But they
have onerous holiness rules for women that I've
never agreed with. And I don't find it in the
Bible. And John Kershaw never judged me on that.
And so... She asked me, I said, you know, this
is the day that I fast and I'm about to leave
and I'll go to the church and I'll pray for you.
And she says, no, you won't. I'm going to get
my purse and I'm going with you. And she did
and she was baptized. Let me get back to another
time that God spoke to me. I'm asleep. It's 5
a .m. A hand is right here. I thought it was
one of the kids. I woke up. They're all asleep.
I don't know what's going on. I come back and
I knew something touched me. So I'm like, I'm
being sneaky. I'm gonna doze off and I did and
I felt it again and I said I'm not gonna open
my eyes and I sat up and then open my eyes and
it was a hand from here on it was a hand it was
white and it was disappearing and I'm sitting
like this like I know I saw that and I heard
this James 4 and I'm like James 4 for I am the
Lord your God and it sounded so loud and so angry
and so fierce I jumped up running in place and
screaming and my husband walked up and said I
told him he said get the Bible it's the book
of James and I did it starts off with who do
you think you are and he goes into all kinds
of things that I was doing wrong And in the end,
it said, who are you to say I'm gonna go here
and get gain and do this and move to this place
and do that place and get gain? Well, you should
say, if God is willing, I will do these things.
Okay, so what do I do? I call John Kershaw at
five in the morning. I'm crying, I'm hysterical.
You know, he screamed at me, he told me this,
and he's laughing the whole time. And I'm trying
to ignore that, and I'm trying to tell him everything
that God said, and what this says in James 4,
and what does it mean for my life. And he's laughing,
and I said, Brother Kershaw, why are you laughing
at me? He said, oh honey, don't you understand?
God testizes those that he loves, and he sure
loves you. So, here's what happened. I moved
to Colorado, my husband didn't. I moved to Colorado
because we bought the home and he was going to
stay there and run the business, come home on
the weekend or once a month until we started
another business in Denver, which I did start.
Unfortunately, he was living single while I was
living married. So basically the marriage was
over. Now God tried to warn me. He gave me a
dream. I'm driving, I'm riding a bicycle and
I'm in deep gravel. It's getting deeper on the
thing. And he said, unless you turn around and
go the other way, Satan will overtake you. And
I turned around and Satan was behind me on a
bicycle. He was grinning because he was going
to overtake me. Also, I took my children. We
went to church. The first day we walked into
this church in Colorado Springs, everything stopped.
They were still standing before church. And the
pastor said, K, God told me to tell you that
Satan is going to sift you like wheat and take
everything you have away from you. And he did.
I lost my husband, my daughter. I lost her to
drugs and the whoring. And she died at 54 in
the streets of Seattle, run over by car. I lost
my pet dog that was that was ground up in front
of me by a backhoe. I lost my credit. I lost
my home. I lost everything and I wandered for
40 years with my eyes dilated. There's not a
week goes by that I don't cry myself to sleep
over the regrets of the decision I made with
the business he gave me and the life he gave
me. But you know what? I came home three years
ago and he ran to meet me and he had the fatted
calf and everything was red because he had given
me everything up front and I squandered it like
a fool and I came home and I did this video to
tell everybody what he did for me and he could
do that for you but more importantly you must
be saved or none of it matters and I've told
you what you have to do to be saved. Nothing
I love more than the story of the prodigal son
so thank you for sharing. Let me ask you a couple
of questions right now. Okay. One is earlier
you mentioned and I didn't quite, I guess I just
didn't quite catch the full vision. You said
a near -death experience is not a true death
experience. Can you explain that? Because as
I told you, the Bible says that you have to seek
out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
He's not going to tell you. He's not going to
say, Eric, you need to go back and get baptized
and feel the Holy Ghost, okay? He isn't going
to tell you that because you have to find it.
That's why the Bible says that the road to hell
is a wide freeway, but the road to salvation
is a narrow trail and a low door and few shall
find it. And most people don't want to find it.
They don't want to speak in tongues. They make
fun of people. And that's another thing. I didn't
know this. My mother was raised Pentecostal.
She wasn't allowed to even tell her children
that she was raised Pentecostal. She had a famous
Pentecostal family from the Zusa street. And
the first thing she did is when I got the Holy
Ghost, she called me crying and said, can I have
it too? And she came back to Dallas and we rebaptized
her. I mean, I moved quickly. There's much more.
I think we got the gist of it. I know that under
the time constraints. Thank you. The thing with
James chapter 4, why did God sound angry? I don't
picture him that way. And I know you said because
you needed to be chastised, but can't he do that
without sounding angry? He can, but... That was
what you needed maybe? Well, it scared me. And
he, I mean, it was, he was angry. And if you
read it, it really, if you read James 4, it really
does say, who do you think you are? You're nothing
but, you're no more than the new mong grass in
the noonday sun. Your life is nothing. And you're
in here, apparently, we were fighting and arguing
over whether we should sell the business and
move. That's what I think, because I don't really
remember. But it was over arguing and fighting.
He said, why is all this warring among you? For
some reason I've blocked out what was going on
as far as the warring among us, but I don't know
how to explain it. It happened. Okay. My last
question is this. Why did you choose me and this
platform to tell your story? So far, you're the
only person that said yes. Oh, I thought you'd
have something better than that. Well, I've only
gone to three people and you know what else?
You're accessible. Most of them are not. I sent
an email to Randy K. Ministry. Do you know who
that is? Yeah, I know Randy. He's been on the
show. Well, I sent something he says well if
you'll send me a 15 -minute video, but we have
to verify everything that you tell us You know,
well, they'll go to the hospital in my mall.
That's fine, but it's been 40 45 years ago It's
gonna be kind of hard to verify, you know Well,
they can't give medical records out anyway to
other people. So they can if I sign it Yeah,
I'm willing to and kind of interestingly For
those that don't know our long email conversations,
there was actually a point where I told you no
also because of a couple of things that you wanted
and we worked that out. So glad we did. Yeah.
Well, I'm sorry I took so long. I should have
told you this is going to be a long one, but
that's okay. It's been a pleasure and I'm glad
that you had an opportunity to tell your story.
because it's not that easy to get out there to
reach thousands of people like you feel like
you need to. And so I'm grateful that it worked
out here, even though we were your last resort.
You were not my last resort. You're the first
one. You're just the first one really that I
contacted. But it's not easy also to tell people
what a fool you were. how sinful you are, you
know, in your lifetime, you know, you don't want
people to know these things, but I have to so
I can get this out for him because I don't know
if you know it, but the time is, the end is near.
I really do believe it's near and I've watched
for it for 50 years, but I've never felt like
I do now. I know something's coming. Yeah, the
earth is kind of a crazy place right now. You
made it sound like you don't think you're going
to be living that much longer. Is that just figurative,
or is there something serious there? No, I don't
have any illness that I'm aware of. I don't take
any medication, but I'm 80. I mean, you know,
it's... You can live 20, 30 more years. No problem.
As long as the teeth hold up, I guess so. I don't
know. You may want the end to be near, but it
may not be. That's true. Anyway... Billy K. Rains,
I appreciate you being with me today and being
so willing to just open up and share everything.
And for those that stuck with us this long, hey,
congratulations. And obviously they're probably
people that needed to hear your story. They'll
know who they are. And you know what? If it's
only one, I'm thrilled. Thank you, Harry. Thanks
again for listening and sharing this podcast.
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button
and sign up for our newsletter at roundtripdeath
.com. If you want to share your near -death experience
or if you have questions or comments about the
show, send an email to eric at roundtripdeath
.com. Until then, I wish you everything good
that you're looking for in this life and the
next.