Since the dawn of time, man's deepest questions
have revolved around the reality of an afterlife.
Of course, there's never been a way to know until
now. Witnesses of the world beyond, hope in a
better existence, overwhelming, unconditional
love, real people, real experiences and a glimpse
into the eternities. This is Round Trip Death.
Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody.
We're going to have a fun show today. We've got
Richard Green on the podcast. And I just want
to throw out a couple of things that we're going
to be talking about first before we let Richard
talk. Say hi, Richard. Hello there, everybody.
We're going to be talking about some big questions,
for example, the meaning of life. I mean, seriously,
yeah, we're going to touch on that. I can't guarantee
we have all the answers, but we'll be talking
about that, about gratitude, about love, about
fear, about, geez, just all kinds of things with
someone who died and saw the other side for about
three minutes. So it could be profound. Anyway,
Richard, good morning again and welcome to the
show. Good morning, Eric. Thank you for having
me. I really appreciate being here. And you're
in North Carolina, right? Yes, sir. I am. We've
been here for about 10 years now. We are Boomerang
parents. Our children had grown and they wound
up settling in North Carolina and family is the
center. piece of, I think, everybody's life.
We have a very close family, so we move close
so we can be near the grandkids. That's fantastic.
Well, I'd love to get to know you a little bit
more, for our listeners to get to know you a
little bit more. That was a perfect start. Give
us another one minute. Who's Richard? Richard
is a recovering business leader, if you will.
I retired about three different times. I had
been a banker. I had been in not -for -profit
agriculture. And most recently, I was the executive
director of the North Carolina Craft Brewers
Guild, got everybody through the pandemic. And
that was a drop -the -mic moment. I felt it was
time to finally and fully retire and spend time
with the family. So life is just good. Wow. Most
of us are jealous. Life is grand. I saw something
the other day that said, you know, you only live
once is wrong. Because you really only die once
and you live every day. I was very fortunate
to be able to die once and come back and be able
to tell the story. But I don't think that that's
common in our society. No, it's not common in
any society for people to get to die twice or
Some even three or four times, but there's a
whole lot to be learned from it. Why don't we
start there? Why don't we go to the beginning?
We're gonna talk a lot about what you learned
from this experience But take us back to the
health problems that you were having and let's
start there from the very beginning Sounds great,
you know and the funny thing is I wasn't having
any health problems that I knew about my NDE
happened about 25 years ago. I was Still in the
process of racing bicycles now, albeit it was
in the master's division, I was on a training
ride and riding on a flat tire on a very, very
hot, humid Missouri day. And apparently I got
dehydrated. The long and short was I felt awful.
I got home. My wife said, you look awful. What's
wrong? And I said, well, I feel like I have an
elephant sitting on my chest. And she goes, oh,
let's go to the hospital. And I'm a guy. I said,
no, I just need a nap. So she called a friend
of ours who was a doctor and told him the story
of my bike ride and the bonk and all that other
good stuff. And he said, well, I have two questions
for you. And I said, go Bob, what are they? And
he says, well, one, do you have a history of
heart disease in your family? And unfortunately,
I do. And then he said to me, he goes, well,
that's interesting. And he says, well, Next question
is, do you have a family? Which was true wake
-up call for me. So I said, oh, OK, I get it.
My wife and I packed up. We went to the hospital.
And fortunately, we did. They initially didn't
find anything wrong. They decided to do the various
tests and wound up getting some stents. Well,
after that process was over is when we don't
know what happened. All I know is that I died
and came back. Were you still in the hospital
or were you at home when it happened? No, I was
in the hospital after the procedure. They took
me to, it was called telemetry. So it's not an
ICU because it wasn't, you know, it was a cardio
cath, so it wasn't that big of a deal, supposedly.
And two nurses were working on me, getting me
comfortable. And I told them that, you know,
I feel really sick. I feel like I'm going to
throw up. And he said, well, let's lay the bed
back and you know, that should pass. Well, when
they did that, it was like you turned off the
light switch in the kitchen or you flip the main
circuit breaker in the house. All of my mortal
senses went away. I had no pain. I had no distress.
I couldn't see anything. I couldn't hear anything,
taste, feel. It was all gone. But a completely
different reality took its place. There aren't
really words that can describe it. I know there
are a lot of metaphors that people have used,
analogies, you know, walking through the tunnel
into the light. points of light. They're all
true in trying to explain that experience, but
they fall short of the bliss that is really going
on. And it takes a little while to kind of grasp
what's happening, if you will. So that was my
initial sense. It was like, what happened? Because
everything I knew was off, but yet I seemed to
be traveling somewhere, something and surrounded
by something. And what I've come to understand
that to be is I was surrounded and part of the
oneness of creation. It's the only way I have
come to be able to describe this, this feeling
of complete bliss and love that I was engulfed
with for this three minutes, which I have to
tell you. That three minutes seemed like a week.
It was incredible, this journey that I went on.
Well, give me more details. I'd love A, B, C,
D, E, if it went chronologically. If not, just
throw out details that you remember. Well, I
don't know that I can think about it chronologically.
I want to throw in one of those those Zen sayings.
It's out there. You know, what is the sound of
one hand clapping, right? So they let they laid
the bed back The circuit breaker broke and I
was like what just happened. I Distinctly remember
going through this this thought process and then
I distinctly remember this feeling of of traveling
somewhere. It was very distinct and very real.
And the whole time that this was happening, I
felt like I was being embraced, if you will.
I don't know any other word to describe that.
And it seemed in those moments, for years, I
had really struggled to describe what this was
like, and that's where I finally came up with
the oneness of creation. In that time and space
there, I was surrounded by not the people, like
my mother and father, not their faces, but their
being, if you will, their souls. Everybody that
I ever knew that had passed before me, I had
felt them there as though we were all part of
one thing, not necessarily as individuals. But
I knew that they were there if that makes any
sense. And then, you know, just as I'm starting
to get this sense of, oh, my, you know, this
is, you know, this is the other side. I came
back and what was two nurses in in this room
was now about six or seven people. And they had
the AED paddles, they were greasing them up,
and somebody had some gigantic hypodermic needle,
and I looked at them, and I thought, whoa, whoa,
and they said, well, welcome back. And quite
frankly, for about five minutes, I felt like
a million dollars. I mean, I felt like I could
have run a marathon. And these people started
to filter out of the room, and I'm trying to
process, what the heck just happened to me here?
And the head nurse... Said here I want to show
you something and she went over to the EKG machine
and she brought a stack of papers It was about
three minutes worth that just more than you think
in terms of the size of the paper And it was
just one flat line So, you know for positive
that you didn't just pass out because you actually
saw the EKG Thank you. Yes. Yes. No, this was
this was not a pass out This was a pass on. And
for some reason, I mean, I don't know why or
how I came back. I don't remember anybody saying,
no, we're not ready for you yet. I don't remember
anybody really talking to me in the sense that,
you know, we're talking, but yet everything was
present. Everything was wrapped into one thing.
That's really hard to describe, but hopefully.
giving you a sense. I think the oneness of creation
kind of covers that. Yeah, you don't have to
see everything to be able to feel it and know
that it's there, right? No, you don't. It engulfs
you. You become part of it. You know, it's a
little background. My degree is in the history
of thought. I had always wondered, even though
I became a businessman and did finance and all
those other things, I always wondered, why are
we here? What are the biggest questions that
we have? What is my purpose? Thousands and thousands
of books have been written about it, and I don't
know that anybody has a clear answer, so I decided
to study it and figure out how to think. I don't
know that I really know how to think or not,
but I had this experience and what it demonstrated
to me was in this singularity of creation. We
are all one thing and that one thing Unites us
and so I guess I look at it in our in our mortal
life is it if we can think of the word spirit
or consciousness and soul as two distinct things
Where our spirit or consciousness is our is our
living being it's the way we act. It's when we
love it's when we fear It is our being here Yet
her soul is that spark of life that is creation.
And I think that in those moments when I was
clinically dead, those two things united. And
that left me with a, not a sense, it answered
my question. You know, the old song is this all
there is my friend and let's keep dancing. Well,
there is a... There is a oneness there that I'm
a part of, that you're a part of, that everybody
is a piece of. And quite frankly, I think if
everybody could spend two or three minutes clinically
dead, come back, we would not have any of the
issues of hate and fear that we have today. It
just wouldn't exist. So I'm guessing that your
fear of death left after that? You know, I didn't
know, I've never really been afraid of death.
I've never thought about, oh my god, this is
the end. When I use fear, let me put it in a
different context for you, okay? I think that
as humans, we have two primary emotions. We certainly
have lots and lots of emotions in varying degrees,
but I think the two primary emotions that drive
us are love and fear. And fear, Is that piece
inside of us it says we can't do something or
i don't i'm ugly or i'm not capable those are
our internal fears. And then there are external
fears where i'm afraid of what i don't know you
know that person might hurt me where the situation
might hurt me. Most cases that kind of fight
or flight fear it keeps us alive i mean it's
instinctual we need it. But oftentimes people
use. that fear to divide us from our humanity,
from our soul. That is what got answered for
me. I mean, it's inevitable we're all going to
die. You know, we just don't know when that's
going to be. And it's OK. You know, we have a
life. And if we can live that life honestly,
if we can live that life with compassion, curiosity,
gratitude, humility and kindness, Then I think
it's better for everybody because we can't control
what happens. You know, we everything we do we
react I mean we we can control our posture, you
know, let me sit up straight and we can control
our attitude Most of the time because we react
to everything my experience my NDE Confirmed
to me that This oneness of humanity that we're
all in this together is real. It's not something
separate. And what that experience did was it
took away those insecurities that I had internally.
Am I doing the right thing? How should I act?
That's the fear that went away. If I could just
interject a few thoughts that I have here on
this topic. The topic of oneness I think is one
of the hardest for people to understand and to
wrap their mind around that haven't had an experience
like yours. And so let me use an example. I once
met someone that had the opportunity to be an
astronaut and to go up in the shuttle and take
a trip around the earth quite a few times for
a few days and came back and he talked about
the oneness. He said, From up there, we're all
part of this earth and this humanity. If everybody
could see that perspective, just like you said,
there would be no war. There would be no hate.
There would be no all this kind of stuff. I don't
know a better way to explain it than that. Everybody's
going to have to figure that one out on their
own, I think. Let me, and then one other thing
that I wanted to touch on. and you're talking
about fear a lot, and we've talked a lot on this
show about love versus fear, and we tend to think
that the opposite of love is hate, and by definition,
yes, it is, but also the opposite of love is
fear, and I think hate fits under fear. Hate
usually comes because we're afraid of something,
of somebody for some reason. And I know that
the frequency and the feelings of fear and love
can't really exist in the same place. While you
were in your three minutes, wherever you were,
did you have any, you mentioned bliss, and we'll
talk about that in a minute, did you have any
feeling of fear or hate or love? Great question.
I had no fear, and I agree with you. Hate is
a subset of fear. Self -loathing is a subset
of fear. The lack of curiosity, isolation is
a subset of fear. None of that existed in my
three -minute experience. What I did experience
I was enfolded in... I used the word bliss. I
could easily use the word love. You know, if
I were speaking in a religious sense, I would
say that I felt the hand of God on my heart.
I felt the divine. All of that, it fits. I deliberately
use secular terms because sometimes religious
concepts can set people off in different directions.
And I think that there's... What I experienced
was a unity and that unity was what we would
describe as love. There was no fear. It was just
this is the understanding of all things are connected
to one another in a way that we will as human
beings and mortal living things we will never
understand until we can step like your astronaut
till we can step far enough away. A metaphor
that I've used for people is, I stole it from
Alan Watts, actually. Brilliant philosopher.
He was trying to understand the singularity of
creation. From our distance is like looking at
a black cat behind a white picket fence at about
six inches. You see a white stripe and you see
a black stripe. But yet, if you can step a block
away, you see a little white picket fence and
a black cat behind it. That's what this experience
was for me. It was that, oh, this is it. This
is what love is. This is what being connected
is. And it just put that exclamation point on
it for me that any doubt that I had was gone.
Just so people can figure out how to relate to
this feeling a little bit. In this life, have
there been any times that you've at least had
a little glimpse or a little feeling that was
similar to this bliss and this love that you
felt there? Oh, yeah. Both before and after.
All the time. For those of you who are parents
or grandparents, the first time you see your
child. and they open their eyes and they look
at you. It's that awe that comes from that. Sometimes
it's places. It happened to me at Mesa Verde.
We got out of the car and we started to walk
towards the ruins of the cliff dwellings. And
I was overwhelmed with awe, just like, oh my
God. The last total eclipse that happened to
me as well, it was just the power and totality
of creation was just put there for me. I just
think if you quiet your mind and you look like
the birth of your child, your mind is quiet.
You're just looking at that hope and possibility.
I think that's probably the most common example,
but I think if people stop and breathe and just
be, they'll feel that in those special and quiet
places and times. When you were in Mesa Verde,
did you find yourself whispering? Yes, I did.
Same thing when we were in Gettysburg, too, when
we did a big family vacation. I'll use the word
mystical. There are mystical places where there
is a lot of power that is concentrated. I don't
know how or why that is. I know I've studied
a lot of Native American thought. and many indigenous
tribes, their concept of life is not based on
time like our Western mind is, rather it's based
on space. And there are holy places where you
can connect with that oneness of creation. I
don't know what's right or what's not. I know
that as humans, we just struggle to find this
purpose and meaning. And when you are given the
opportunity, whether it hits you over the head
like it did me, or whether it's more subtle and
you're able to get it from meditation, it's there
and it's real. Okay, I appreciate all of that.
I'm curious, after this happened, who did you
tell about it? Oh, pretty much a pre -buddy that
I could, you know, talk to and say, oh my god,
this happened. I don't know what happened, but
this happened. And literally I spent you know
more than two decades just working in my own
head to try to how do you explain this and not
because oh this was a cool thing that happened
to me but more because you know what there's
there's a message one of my co -workers when
this had happened he asked me well what what
are you going to do with this now that this happened
how are you going to change your life what are
you going to do with this and i thought about
that a lot I don't know that I changed my whole
life a lot, in that I always thought that, you
know, honesty is the best policy and you have
to be accountable. I've always attempted to be
the best human being I could be at any given
point in time. But I struggle, what do you do
with this? And over the years, as life has ebbed
and flowed, it's come to me at this point in
time where it's like, you know what, there's
an important message here. And I think it's important
to talk about it. especially in these times where
everything is so divisive. Everybody, I think,
needs a reminder to slow down a minute and think.
You know, when you put your socks on this morning,
Eric, you did left foot, right foot or right
foot, left foot, one or the other. I don't have
socks on today. Sorry. All right. Mess up my
analogy. Why don't you? I've got pants on. It's
the same thing. Just giving you a hard time.
That's it, you know, but what we're hungry we
want food, you know, when it's when it's cold
and wet we want shelter and warmth Yeah, and
when we're sad and lonely, we want somebody to
love us and hug us You know, we all want our
children to do better than we did. That's humanity
and I Think many times we forget that we get
caught up in our own World we get caught up in
this is happening and that's happening. I think
humans are naturally Gossips were social creatures.
So yeah, and and what travels quicker bad news
So, you know what time for a kindness revolution.
Let's uh spread some good news. I love it And
to go with what you just said about this is happening
and that's happening We often are self -centered
enough to go. This is happening to me and that's
happening to me That's why we need to get out
of ourselves Think about others and do for others
When you and I were talking the other day, the
word gratitude came up a lot. I wrote it down
in my notes. How does that fit in with what you
learned? I said a little bit earlier. I think
that the foundation of our lives is honesty.
We have to be honest with others. We have to
be honest with ourselves. But built on that foundation
is compassion, curiosity, gratitude, humility,
and kindness. Gratitude, you know, stuff happens
all the time. You know, we're in the big pond
of life, everybody's throwing rocks in it, and
we're going to get hit with ripples. It's important,
I think, to take the view, again, quiet yourself
and look at what, while there may be a lot of
bad things happening, there is so much to be
grateful for. And when you can turn that this
is happening to me as you as you had said or
these you know this is happening in the world
and you say you know I am grateful for and I
do that every morning I have spent about a half
an hour stretching and meditating and and part
of part of that half hour is a practice of gratitude
I'm grateful that I have the life that I have.
I'm grateful that my children have grown and
brought me wonderful grandchildren and that we're
close as a family. I'm grateful that I have had
the opportunities that I've had. I'm grateful
I get to interact with so many different people
and spread the same word. There's always something
there to be grateful for. Even if you're having
a lousy day, you know it's like okay i'm grateful
because there's something i can learn from this
it can fix your lousy day too absolutely absolutely
i think those five pillars compassion which is
you know trying to walk in somebody else's shoes
curiosity having the the fortitude and the open
mind to say wait there's something bigger better
different than what I'm thinking in my world.
Let me be open and hear it. Gratitude, we just
talked about. Humility is, again, getting out
of yourself and just saying, OK, we're going
to do this together. Because quite frankly, we
are a gigantic team. There's an old Nigerian
proverb that says, if you want to go fast, go
alone. If you want to go far, go together. We're
wired to go together. So in order to do that,
it's not, look at me, go, go, go. It's like,
well, let's do this. And that's being humble.
And then, of course, the underlying to all of
that is kindness. When you're in the grocery
store and everybody has their little name tag
and somebody's checking you out, call them by
their name. Just simple little things like that
that just make life go so much smoother. Is there
more to this for, as you told me, you've learned
more about the purpose of life. I think you've
already covered a lot of it. Is there any more
that you want to fill in? You know, in all honesty,
I think that that foundation that we just talked
about is really the key. I think the difficult
part for all of us, you know, I'll go back to
that fear and love conversation we had a little
bit earlier. I think the difficult part For all
of us is to step outside of ourselves to remind
ourselves that We are part of everything and
what we do and what we how we react impacts so
many other people So so step back. That's a practice.
We need to develop those habits I'm still working
on developing those habits every day. I still
get annoyed and angry at the guy who's driving
like a knucklehead because I never drive like
a knucklehead. It's always the other person.
We're perfect drivers. Absolutely. Exactly. Exactly.
I think that's that is that reminder the NDE
for me put an exclamation mark on that and allows
me when I have my doubts, which everybody does,
I come back to that and it helps center me. That's
why I do that practice in the morning, because
I'm old, I need to stretch, but I'm going to
use that time to say, okay, how are we going
to make this day better? What are we going to
do? And continue that mantra in my head. And
that's, I'd recommend that to anybody and everybody.
I think as you put it, this NDE didn't change
you that much. I think it's because you were
already a really good person. Well, thank you.
It didn't need to it just like you said it just
put an asterix on it Yeah, it's I grew up in
I came of age in the in the middle late 60s early
70s. It was arguably even more chaotic and crazy
time than we have today. There were political
assassinations in our country. We had cities
on fire. We were fighting in a war that seemed
and was senseless. And yet, I'm growing up with,
you know, parents who taught me love is the answer.
You know, our music told us that. And I had a
really hard time reconciling, although that's
like, quite frankly, that's why I studied the
history of thought. I had a hard time reconciling
that because it's always better to be good. That
path, being honest, yeah, you may get in the
trouble, you know, over doing something wrong,
but we're going to do something wrong. If I lie
about it, it's going to get a whole lot worse.
So let's just try to do the right thing. My parents
instilled that in me. I tried to instill that
in my kids. They heard from me. ad nauseum, you
know, what's done in the dark comes out in the
light. But it seemed to work. And thanks for
mentioning music. Didn't the Beatles say all
we need is love? Yes, indeed. As a matter of
fact, I've used that line many times. All right.
Hey, before I let you go. I did want to mention
you've got a book out, Finding the Eye of the
Storm. I can't wait to read it. Is there anything
you want to mention about that? Yeah, thank you.
In trying to describe what had happened, I spent
a lot of time thinking, and then I said, well,
you know what, I need to put this down on paper.
So some of the things that we've talked about
are in that book, as are what I have done. for
me as habits to help me stay balanced and centered.
It's worked for me. I'm offering this book to
your listeners at a discount as well. There's
a link I think that we're going to be putting
out there. We'll stick a link in the show notes.
I'm not sure the date that this podcast is going
to come out. It's going to be right around Christmas
before or after, even if it's after. Yeah, I
think it'd make a cool gift for somebody. So
thanks for the deal on that. I'm going to give
you the very last word. Okay, you've already
left us with 10 messages of hope and I appreciate
it so much. One last one. Go for it. One last
one. Now you really put me on the spot here.
I think the last word I'm going to leave you
is that we're all okay. In our souls, we are
all okay. Yeah, there are some of us, our spirits
are broken, but they can be fixed. Just remember,
love does carry the day and our fears when we
approach them with curiosity, humility, and kindness
when we approach other people that way. It shrinks
our fears. People who are out there trolling
it, they lose control over you when you focus
your life on love. Beautifully said, Richard
Green. Appreciate you being with me today. Eric,
thank you so much for this opportunity and everybody
have a wonderful holiday. Thanks again for listening
and sharing this podcast. Don't forget to hit
the follow or subscribe button and sign up for
our newsletter at RoundTripDesk .com. If you
want to share your near -death experience, or
if you have questions or comments about the show,
send an email to eric at roundtripdeath .com.
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're
looking for in this life and the next.