WEBVTT 00:00:01.380 --> 00:00:06.700 Since the dawn of time, man's deepest questions 00:00:06.700 --> 00:00:11.359 have revolved around the reality of an afterlife. 00:00:12.039 --> 00:00:16.199 Of course, there's never been a way to know until 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:21.739 now. Witnesses of the world beyond, hope in a 00:00:21.739 --> 00:00:26.079 better existence, overwhelming, unconditional 00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:32.130 love, real people, real experiences and a glimpse 00:00:32.130 --> 00:00:38.210 into the eternities. This is Round Trip Death. 00:00:41.729 --> 00:00:43.729 Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody. 00:00:44.170 --> 00:00:46.789 We're going to have a fun show today. We've got 00:00:46.789 --> 00:00:49.789 Richard Green on the podcast. And I just want 00:00:49.789 --> 00:00:51.289 to throw out a couple of things that we're going 00:00:51.289 --> 00:00:54.030 to be talking about first before we let Richard 00:00:54.030 --> 00:00:57.409 talk. Say hi, Richard. Hello there, everybody. 00:00:57.710 --> 00:01:00.789 We're going to be talking about some big questions, 00:01:00.850 --> 00:01:04.689 for example, the meaning of life. I mean, seriously, 00:01:05.310 --> 00:01:07.430 yeah, we're going to touch on that. I can't guarantee 00:01:07.430 --> 00:01:09.549 we have all the answers, but we'll be talking 00:01:09.549 --> 00:01:15.390 about that, about gratitude, about love, about 00:01:15.390 --> 00:01:21.670 fear, about, geez, just all kinds of things with 00:01:21.670 --> 00:01:25.590 someone who died and saw the other side for about 00:01:25.590 --> 00:01:30.200 three minutes. So it could be profound. Anyway, 00:01:30.299 --> 00:01:33.180 Richard, good morning again and welcome to the 00:01:33.180 --> 00:01:36.000 show. Good morning, Eric. Thank you for having 00:01:36.000 --> 00:01:38.879 me. I really appreciate being here. And you're 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:42.400 in North Carolina, right? Yes, sir. I am. We've 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:46.780 been here for about 10 years now. We are Boomerang 00:01:46.780 --> 00:01:49.260 parents. Our children had grown and they wound 00:01:49.260 --> 00:01:53.400 up settling in North Carolina and family is the 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:56.579 center. piece of, I think, everybody's life. 00:01:56.819 --> 00:01:59.280 We have a very close family, so we move close 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:02.379 so we can be near the grandkids. That's fantastic. 00:02:02.859 --> 00:02:05.400 Well, I'd love to get to know you a little bit 00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:07.840 more, for our listeners to get to know you a 00:02:07.840 --> 00:02:11.020 little bit more. That was a perfect start. Give 00:02:11.020 --> 00:02:13.680 us another one minute. Who's Richard? Richard 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:16.539 is a recovering business leader, if you will. 00:02:16.539 --> 00:02:19.360 I retired about three different times. I had 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:22.219 been a banker. I had been in not -for -profit 00:02:22.219 --> 00:02:27.000 agriculture. And most recently, I was the executive 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:29.879 director of the North Carolina Craft Brewers 00:02:29.879 --> 00:02:33.699 Guild, got everybody through the pandemic. And 00:02:33.699 --> 00:02:37.199 that was a drop -the -mic moment. I felt it was 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:41.319 time to finally and fully retire and spend time 00:02:41.319 --> 00:02:46.409 with the family. So life is just good. Wow. Most 00:02:46.409 --> 00:02:50.930 of us are jealous. Life is grand. I saw something 00:02:50.930 --> 00:02:53.650 the other day that said, you know, you only live 00:02:53.650 --> 00:02:57.150 once is wrong. Because you really only die once 00:02:57.150 --> 00:03:00.009 and you live every day. I was very fortunate 00:03:00.009 --> 00:03:02.689 to be able to die once and come back and be able 00:03:02.689 --> 00:03:05.289 to tell the story. But I don't think that that's 00:03:05.289 --> 00:03:08.409 common in our society. No, it's not common in 00:03:08.409 --> 00:03:11.669 any society for people to get to die twice or 00:03:11.819 --> 00:03:15.240 Some even three or four times, but there's a 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:17.379 whole lot to be learned from it. Why don't we 00:03:17.379 --> 00:03:20.039 start there? Why don't we go to the beginning? 00:03:20.099 --> 00:03:21.860 We're gonna talk a lot about what you learned 00:03:21.860 --> 00:03:25.780 from this experience But take us back to the 00:03:25.780 --> 00:03:28.300 health problems that you were having and let's 00:03:28.300 --> 00:03:31.020 start there from the very beginning Sounds great, 00:03:31.020 --> 00:03:33.719 you know and the funny thing is I wasn't having 00:03:33.719 --> 00:03:37.960 any health problems that I knew about my NDE 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:42.500 happened about 25 years ago. I was Still in the 00:03:42.500 --> 00:03:45.740 process of racing bicycles now, albeit it was 00:03:45.740 --> 00:03:48.539 in the master's division, I was on a training 00:03:48.539 --> 00:03:52.319 ride and riding on a flat tire on a very, very 00:03:52.319 --> 00:03:56.439 hot, humid Missouri day. And apparently I got 00:03:56.439 --> 00:04:00.240 dehydrated. The long and short was I felt awful. 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:04.960 I got home. My wife said, you look awful. What's 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:07.020 wrong? And I said, well, I feel like I have an 00:04:07.020 --> 00:04:09.539 elephant sitting on my chest. And she goes, oh, 00:04:09.539 --> 00:04:13.530 let's go to the hospital. And I'm a guy. I said, 00:04:13.629 --> 00:04:17.089 no, I just need a nap. So she called a friend 00:04:17.089 --> 00:04:19.850 of ours who was a doctor and told him the story 00:04:19.850 --> 00:04:23.410 of my bike ride and the bonk and all that other 00:04:23.410 --> 00:04:25.389 good stuff. And he said, well, I have two questions 00:04:25.389 --> 00:04:28.750 for you. And I said, go Bob, what are they? And 00:04:28.750 --> 00:04:30.670 he says, well, one, do you have a history of 00:04:30.670 --> 00:04:33.170 heart disease in your family? And unfortunately, 00:04:33.170 --> 00:04:36.189 I do. And then he said to me, he goes, well, 00:04:36.209 --> 00:04:39.889 that's interesting. And he says, well, Next question 00:04:39.889 --> 00:04:43.889 is, do you have a family? Which was true wake 00:04:43.889 --> 00:04:47.329 -up call for me. So I said, oh, OK, I get it. 00:04:47.670 --> 00:04:50.029 My wife and I packed up. We went to the hospital. 00:04:50.689 --> 00:04:54.529 And fortunately, we did. They initially didn't 00:04:54.529 --> 00:04:58.750 find anything wrong. They decided to do the various 00:04:58.750 --> 00:05:02.189 tests and wound up getting some stents. Well, 00:05:02.189 --> 00:05:06.930 after that process was over is when we don't 00:05:06.930 --> 00:05:12.319 know what happened. All I know is that I died 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:15.899 and came back. Were you still in the hospital 00:05:15.899 --> 00:05:18.879 or were you at home when it happened? No, I was 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:22.459 in the hospital after the procedure. They took 00:05:22.459 --> 00:05:26.170 me to, it was called telemetry. So it's not an 00:05:26.170 --> 00:05:28.470 ICU because it wasn't, you know, it was a cardio 00:05:28.470 --> 00:05:30.689 cath, so it wasn't that big of a deal, supposedly. 00:05:31.170 --> 00:05:33.389 And two nurses were working on me, getting me 00:05:33.389 --> 00:05:36.009 comfortable. And I told them that, you know, 00:05:36.009 --> 00:05:38.389 I feel really sick. I feel like I'm going to 00:05:38.389 --> 00:05:40.730 throw up. And he said, well, let's lay the bed 00:05:40.730 --> 00:05:43.509 back and you know, that should pass. Well, when 00:05:43.509 --> 00:05:47.209 they did that, it was like you turned off the 00:05:47.209 --> 00:05:50.129 light switch in the kitchen or you flip the main 00:05:50.129 --> 00:05:54.420 circuit breaker in the house. All of my mortal 00:05:54.420 --> 00:05:59.379 senses went away. I had no pain. I had no distress. 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:02.740 I couldn't see anything. I couldn't hear anything, 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:07.959 taste, feel. It was all gone. But a completely 00:06:07.959 --> 00:06:12.240 different reality took its place. There aren't 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:15.600 really words that can describe it. I know there 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:18.920 are a lot of metaphors that people have used, 00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:21.160 analogies, you know, walking through the tunnel 00:06:21.160 --> 00:06:25.740 into the light. points of light. They're all 00:06:25.740 --> 00:06:30.220 true in trying to explain that experience, but 00:06:30.220 --> 00:06:34.420 they fall short of the bliss that is really going 00:06:34.420 --> 00:06:38.339 on. And it takes a little while to kind of grasp 00:06:38.339 --> 00:06:42.079 what's happening, if you will. So that was my 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:46.100 initial sense. It was like, what happened? Because 00:06:46.100 --> 00:06:50.120 everything I knew was off, but yet I seemed to 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:54.800 be traveling somewhere, something and surrounded 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:58.019 by something. And what I've come to understand 00:06:58.019 --> 00:07:04.079 that to be is I was surrounded and part of the 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:07.899 oneness of creation. It's the only way I have 00:07:07.899 --> 00:07:12.180 come to be able to describe this, this feeling 00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:15.540 of complete bliss and love that I was engulfed 00:07:15.540 --> 00:07:18.339 with for this three minutes, which I have to 00:07:18.339 --> 00:07:23.300 tell you. That three minutes seemed like a week. 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:26.959 It was incredible, this journey that I went on. 00:07:27.579 --> 00:07:31.379 Well, give me more details. I'd love A, B, C, 00:07:31.379 --> 00:07:35.480 D, E, if it went chronologically. If not, just 00:07:35.480 --> 00:07:39.139 throw out details that you remember. Well, I 00:07:39.139 --> 00:07:43.160 don't know that I can think about it chronologically. 00:07:43.420 --> 00:07:47.759 I want to throw in one of those those Zen sayings. 00:07:47.939 --> 00:07:49.500 It's out there. You know, what is the sound of 00:07:49.500 --> 00:07:53.540 one hand clapping, right? So they let they laid 00:07:53.540 --> 00:07:59.000 the bed back The circuit breaker broke and I 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:03.459 was like what just happened. I Distinctly remember 00:08:03.459 --> 00:08:07.439 going through this this thought process and then 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:12.500 I distinctly remember this feeling of of traveling 00:08:13.530 --> 00:08:17.730 somewhere. It was very distinct and very real. 00:08:18.209 --> 00:08:21.329 And the whole time that this was happening, I 00:08:21.329 --> 00:08:25.649 felt like I was being embraced, if you will. 00:08:26.230 --> 00:08:28.509 I don't know any other word to describe that. 00:08:28.850 --> 00:08:34.370 And it seemed in those moments, for years, I 00:08:34.370 --> 00:08:39.450 had really struggled to describe what this was 00:08:39.450 --> 00:08:41.389 like, and that's where I finally came up with 00:08:41.389 --> 00:08:44.929 the oneness of creation. In that time and space 00:08:44.929 --> 00:08:49.990 there, I was surrounded by not the people, like 00:08:49.990 --> 00:08:53.990 my mother and father, not their faces, but their 00:08:53.990 --> 00:08:57.509 being, if you will, their souls. Everybody that 00:08:57.509 --> 00:09:00.950 I ever knew that had passed before me, I had 00:09:00.950 --> 00:09:04.029 felt them there as though we were all part of 00:09:04.029 --> 00:09:08.580 one thing, not necessarily as individuals. But 00:09:08.580 --> 00:09:12.120 I knew that they were there if that makes any 00:09:12.120 --> 00:09:15.419 sense. And then, you know, just as I'm starting 00:09:15.419 --> 00:09:20.039 to get this sense of, oh, my, you know, this 00:09:20.039 --> 00:09:25.639 is, you know, this is the other side. I came 00:09:25.639 --> 00:09:31.399 back and what was two nurses in in this room 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:34.789 was now about six or seven people. And they had 00:09:34.789 --> 00:09:36.970 the AED paddles, they were greasing them up, 00:09:37.110 --> 00:09:39.370 and somebody had some gigantic hypodermic needle, 00:09:39.929 --> 00:09:41.929 and I looked at them, and I thought, whoa, whoa, 00:09:41.929 --> 00:09:45.350 and they said, well, welcome back. And quite 00:09:45.350 --> 00:09:48.230 frankly, for about five minutes, I felt like 00:09:48.230 --> 00:09:50.309 a million dollars. I mean, I felt like I could 00:09:50.309 --> 00:09:53.029 have run a marathon. And these people started 00:09:53.029 --> 00:09:55.889 to filter out of the room, and I'm trying to 00:09:55.889 --> 00:09:59.730 process, what the heck just happened to me here? 00:10:00.149 --> 00:10:03.519 And the head nurse... Said here I want to show 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:07.100 you something and she went over to the EKG machine 00:10:07.100 --> 00:10:10.500 and she brought a stack of papers It was about 00:10:10.500 --> 00:10:13.419 three minutes worth that just more than you think 00:10:13.419 --> 00:10:15.799 in terms of the size of the paper And it was 00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:20.720 just one flat line So, you know for positive 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:24.220 that you didn't just pass out because you actually 00:10:24.220 --> 00:10:29.639 saw the EKG Thank you. Yes. Yes. No, this was 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:35.000 this was not a pass out This was a pass on. And 00:10:35.000 --> 00:10:39.059 for some reason, I mean, I don't know why or 00:10:39.059 --> 00:10:42.360 how I came back. I don't remember anybody saying, 00:10:42.379 --> 00:10:45.320 no, we're not ready for you yet. I don't remember 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:49.159 anybody really talking to me in the sense that, 00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:53.059 you know, we're talking, but yet everything was 00:10:53.059 --> 00:10:56.440 present. Everything was wrapped into one thing. 00:10:56.840 --> 00:10:59.539 That's really hard to describe, but hopefully. 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:02.419 giving you a sense. I think the oneness of creation 00:11:02.419 --> 00:11:05.879 kind of covers that. Yeah, you don't have to 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:08.580 see everything to be able to feel it and know 00:11:08.580 --> 00:11:12.720 that it's there, right? No, you don't. It engulfs 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:15.960 you. You become part of it. You know, it's a 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:19.440 little background. My degree is in the history 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:23.600 of thought. I had always wondered, even though 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:25.799 I became a businessman and did finance and all 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:29.019 those other things, I always wondered, why are 00:11:29.019 --> 00:11:32.049 we here? What are the biggest questions that 00:11:32.049 --> 00:11:36.250 we have? What is my purpose? Thousands and thousands 00:11:36.250 --> 00:11:38.450 of books have been written about it, and I don't 00:11:38.450 --> 00:11:41.509 know that anybody has a clear answer, so I decided 00:11:41.509 --> 00:11:45.250 to study it and figure out how to think. I don't 00:11:45.250 --> 00:11:47.250 know that I really know how to think or not, 00:11:47.429 --> 00:11:51.529 but I had this experience and what it demonstrated 00:11:51.529 --> 00:11:58.460 to me was in this singularity of creation. We 00:11:58.460 --> 00:12:03.940 are all one thing and that one thing Unites us 00:12:03.940 --> 00:12:07.220 and so I guess I look at it in our in our mortal 00:12:07.220 --> 00:12:11.220 life is it if we can think of the word spirit 00:12:11.220 --> 00:12:17.000 or consciousness and soul as two distinct things 00:12:17.000 --> 00:12:19.940 Where our spirit or consciousness is our is our 00:12:19.940 --> 00:12:22.399 living being it's the way we act. It's when we 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:26.690 love it's when we fear It is our being here Yet 00:12:26.690 --> 00:12:30.210 her soul is that spark of life that is creation. 00:12:30.889 --> 00:12:36.269 And I think that in those moments when I was 00:12:36.269 --> 00:12:40.350 clinically dead, those two things united. And 00:12:40.350 --> 00:12:44.549 that left me with a, not a sense, it answered 00:12:44.549 --> 00:12:47.370 my question. You know, the old song is this all 00:12:47.370 --> 00:12:50.070 there is my friend and let's keep dancing. Well, 00:12:50.190 --> 00:12:54.240 there is a... There is a oneness there that I'm 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:57.159 a part of, that you're a part of, that everybody 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:00.840 is a piece of. And quite frankly, I think if 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:05.960 everybody could spend two or three minutes clinically 00:13:05.960 --> 00:13:11.120 dead, come back, we would not have any of the 00:13:11.120 --> 00:13:15.279 issues of hate and fear that we have today. It 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:19.399 just wouldn't exist. So I'm guessing that your 00:13:19.399 --> 00:13:24.009 fear of death left after that? You know, I didn't 00:13:24.009 --> 00:13:26.909 know, I've never really been afraid of death. 00:13:26.990 --> 00:13:30.330 I've never thought about, oh my god, this is 00:13:30.330 --> 00:13:33.690 the end. When I use fear, let me put it in a 00:13:33.690 --> 00:13:36.549 different context for you, okay? I think that 00:13:36.549 --> 00:13:40.169 as humans, we have two primary emotions. We certainly 00:13:40.169 --> 00:13:43.690 have lots and lots of emotions in varying degrees, 00:13:43.730 --> 00:13:46.429 but I think the two primary emotions that drive 00:13:46.429 --> 00:13:52.139 us are love and fear. And fear, Is that piece 00:13:52.139 --> 00:13:55.720 inside of us it says we can't do something or 00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:59.740 i don't i'm ugly or i'm not capable those are 00:13:59.740 --> 00:14:03.200 our internal fears. And then there are external 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:05.759 fears where i'm afraid of what i don't know you 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:08.740 know that person might hurt me where the situation 00:14:08.740 --> 00:14:12.639 might hurt me. Most cases that kind of fight 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:15.820 or flight fear it keeps us alive i mean it's 00:14:15.820 --> 00:14:19.240 instinctual we need it. But oftentimes people 00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:23.340 use. that fear to divide us from our humanity, 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:28.340 from our soul. That is what got answered for 00:14:28.340 --> 00:14:31.179 me. I mean, it's inevitable we're all going to 00:14:31.179 --> 00:14:33.899 die. You know, we just don't know when that's 00:14:33.899 --> 00:14:37.620 going to be. And it's OK. You know, we have a 00:14:37.620 --> 00:14:41.840 life. And if we can live that life honestly, 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:46.539 if we can live that life with compassion, curiosity, 00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:51.580 gratitude, humility and kindness, Then I think 00:14:51.580 --> 00:14:53.980 it's better for everybody because we can't control 00:14:53.980 --> 00:14:57.220 what happens. You know, we everything we do we 00:14:57.220 --> 00:15:00.240 react I mean we we can control our posture, you 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:02.879 know, let me sit up straight and we can control 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:06.860 our attitude Most of the time because we react 00:15:06.860 --> 00:15:11.980 to everything my experience my NDE Confirmed 00:15:11.980 --> 00:15:17.820 to me that This oneness of humanity that we're 00:15:17.820 --> 00:15:23.190 all in this together is real. It's not something 00:15:23.190 --> 00:15:26.750 separate. And what that experience did was it 00:15:26.750 --> 00:15:31.870 took away those insecurities that I had internally. 00:15:32.490 --> 00:15:36.029 Am I doing the right thing? How should I act? 00:15:36.350 --> 00:15:40.529 That's the fear that went away. If I could just 00:15:40.529 --> 00:15:43.129 interject a few thoughts that I have here on 00:15:43.129 --> 00:15:47.350 this topic. The topic of oneness I think is one 00:15:47.350 --> 00:15:51.929 of the hardest for people to understand and to 00:15:51.929 --> 00:15:55.470 wrap their mind around that haven't had an experience 00:15:55.470 --> 00:15:59.389 like yours. And so let me use an example. I once 00:15:59.389 --> 00:16:03.649 met someone that had the opportunity to be an 00:16:03.649 --> 00:16:08.690 astronaut and to go up in the shuttle and take 00:16:08.690 --> 00:16:11.309 a trip around the earth quite a few times for 00:16:11.309 --> 00:16:15.169 a few days and came back and he talked about 00:16:15.169 --> 00:16:21.830 the oneness. He said, From up there, we're all 00:16:21.830 --> 00:16:25.750 part of this earth and this humanity. If everybody 00:16:25.750 --> 00:16:29.330 could see that perspective, just like you said, 00:16:29.590 --> 00:16:33.090 there would be no war. There would be no hate. 00:16:33.190 --> 00:16:36.750 There would be no all this kind of stuff. I don't 00:16:36.750 --> 00:16:39.730 know a better way to explain it than that. Everybody's 00:16:39.730 --> 00:16:41.850 going to have to figure that one out on their 00:16:41.850 --> 00:16:44.789 own, I think. Let me, and then one other thing 00:16:44.789 --> 00:16:47.450 that I wanted to touch on. and you're talking 00:16:47.450 --> 00:16:51.409 about fear a lot, and we've talked a lot on this 00:16:51.409 --> 00:16:57.610 show about love versus fear, and we tend to think 00:16:57.610 --> 00:17:01.809 that the opposite of love is hate, and by definition, 00:17:02.129 --> 00:17:05.289 yes, it is, but also the opposite of love is 00:17:05.289 --> 00:17:08.910 fear, and I think hate fits under fear. Hate 00:17:08.910 --> 00:17:11.789 usually comes because we're afraid of something, 00:17:12.630 --> 00:17:17.000 of somebody for some reason. And I know that 00:17:17.000 --> 00:17:22.720 the frequency and the feelings of fear and love 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:27.180 can't really exist in the same place. While you 00:17:27.180 --> 00:17:30.359 were in your three minutes, wherever you were, 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:33.579 did you have any, you mentioned bliss, and we'll 00:17:33.579 --> 00:17:36.759 talk about that in a minute, did you have any 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:43.380 feeling of fear or hate or love? Great question. 00:17:43.819 --> 00:17:50.599 I had no fear, and I agree with you. Hate is 00:17:50.599 --> 00:17:54.180 a subset of fear. Self -loathing is a subset 00:17:54.180 --> 00:18:01.220 of fear. The lack of curiosity, isolation is 00:18:01.220 --> 00:18:08.619 a subset of fear. None of that existed in my 00:18:08.619 --> 00:18:13.279 three -minute experience. What I did experience 00:18:13.549 --> 00:18:17.470 I was enfolded in... I used the word bliss. I 00:18:17.470 --> 00:18:21.170 could easily use the word love. You know, if 00:18:21.170 --> 00:18:24.569 I were speaking in a religious sense, I would 00:18:24.569 --> 00:18:27.990 say that I felt the hand of God on my heart. 00:18:28.309 --> 00:18:33.430 I felt the divine. All of that, it fits. I deliberately 00:18:33.430 --> 00:18:37.109 use secular terms because sometimes religious 00:18:37.109 --> 00:18:40.710 concepts can set people off in different directions. 00:18:40.809 --> 00:18:43.480 And I think that there's... What I experienced 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:48.339 was a unity and that unity was what we would 00:18:48.339 --> 00:18:52.579 describe as love. There was no fear. It was just 00:18:52.579 --> 00:18:57.519 this is the understanding of all things are connected 00:18:57.519 --> 00:19:02.700 to one another in a way that we will as human 00:19:02.700 --> 00:19:05.339 beings and mortal living things we will never 00:19:05.339 --> 00:19:08.519 understand until we can step like your astronaut 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:11.240 till we can step far enough away. A metaphor 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:13.980 that I've used for people is, I stole it from 00:19:13.980 --> 00:19:16.799 Alan Watts, actually. Brilliant philosopher. 00:19:17.579 --> 00:19:21.140 He was trying to understand the singularity of 00:19:21.140 --> 00:19:26.400 creation. From our distance is like looking at 00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:30.579 a black cat behind a white picket fence at about 00:19:30.579 --> 00:19:34.099 six inches. You see a white stripe and you see 00:19:34.099 --> 00:19:37.460 a black stripe. But yet, if you can step a block 00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:41.819 away, you see a little white picket fence and 00:19:41.819 --> 00:19:47.019 a black cat behind it. That's what this experience 00:19:47.019 --> 00:19:53.160 was for me. It was that, oh, this is it. This 00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:57.039 is what love is. This is what being connected 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:02.180 is. And it just put that exclamation point on 00:20:02.180 --> 00:20:06.259 it for me that any doubt that I had was gone. 00:20:06.700 --> 00:20:09.240 Just so people can figure out how to relate to 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:13.859 this feeling a little bit. In this life, have 00:20:13.859 --> 00:20:16.000 there been any times that you've at least had 00:20:16.000 --> 00:20:18.539 a little glimpse or a little feeling that was 00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:21.000 similar to this bliss and this love that you 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:26.099 felt there? Oh, yeah. Both before and after. 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.980 All the time. For those of you who are parents 00:20:29.980 --> 00:20:33.819 or grandparents, the first time you see your 00:20:33.819 --> 00:20:36.630 child. and they open their eyes and they look 00:20:36.630 --> 00:20:41.509 at you. It's that awe that comes from that. Sometimes 00:20:41.509 --> 00:20:44.589 it's places. It happened to me at Mesa Verde. 00:20:44.829 --> 00:20:47.650 We got out of the car and we started to walk 00:20:47.650 --> 00:20:51.150 towards the ruins of the cliff dwellings. And 00:20:51.150 --> 00:20:54.829 I was overwhelmed with awe, just like, oh my 00:20:54.829 --> 00:21:00.130 God. The last total eclipse that happened to 00:21:00.130 --> 00:21:05.599 me as well, it was just the power and totality 00:21:05.599 --> 00:21:10.039 of creation was just put there for me. I just 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:13.200 think if you quiet your mind and you look like 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:16.140 the birth of your child, your mind is quiet. 00:21:16.339 --> 00:21:18.299 You're just looking at that hope and possibility. 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:21.160 I think that's probably the most common example, 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:26.539 but I think if people stop and breathe and just 00:21:26.539 --> 00:21:31.059 be, they'll feel that in those special and quiet 00:21:31.059 --> 00:21:35.509 places and times. When you were in Mesa Verde, 00:21:35.829 --> 00:21:40.670 did you find yourself whispering? Yes, I did. 00:21:40.809 --> 00:21:43.269 Same thing when we were in Gettysburg, too, when 00:21:43.269 --> 00:21:48.869 we did a big family vacation. I'll use the word 00:21:48.869 --> 00:21:52.289 mystical. There are mystical places where there 00:21:52.289 --> 00:21:56.210 is a lot of power that is concentrated. I don't 00:21:56.210 --> 00:22:00.089 know how or why that is. I know I've studied 00:22:00.089 --> 00:22:04.420 a lot of Native American thought. and many indigenous 00:22:04.420 --> 00:22:08.740 tribes, their concept of life is not based on 00:22:08.740 --> 00:22:12.660 time like our Western mind is, rather it's based 00:22:12.660 --> 00:22:17.259 on space. And there are holy places where you 00:22:17.259 --> 00:22:21.660 can connect with that oneness of creation. I 00:22:21.660 --> 00:22:24.220 don't know what's right or what's not. I know 00:22:24.220 --> 00:22:27.740 that as humans, we just struggle to find this 00:22:27.740 --> 00:22:32.099 purpose and meaning. And when you are given the 00:22:32.099 --> 00:22:34.680 opportunity, whether it hits you over the head 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:37.839 like it did me, or whether it's more subtle and 00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:40.019 you're able to get it from meditation, it's there 00:22:40.019 --> 00:22:43.099 and it's real. Okay, I appreciate all of that. 00:22:43.380 --> 00:22:46.660 I'm curious, after this happened, who did you 00:22:46.660 --> 00:22:51.519 tell about it? Oh, pretty much a pre -buddy that 00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:54.059 I could, you know, talk to and say, oh my god, 00:22:54.099 --> 00:22:56.299 this happened. I don't know what happened, but 00:22:56.299 --> 00:23:00.109 this happened. And literally I spent you know 00:23:00.109 --> 00:23:04.329 more than two decades just working in my own 00:23:04.329 --> 00:23:08.150 head to try to how do you explain this and not 00:23:08.150 --> 00:23:10.869 because oh this was a cool thing that happened 00:23:10.869 --> 00:23:14.450 to me but more because you know what there's 00:23:14.450 --> 00:23:17.650 there's a message one of my co -workers when 00:23:17.650 --> 00:23:20.450 this had happened he asked me well what what 00:23:20.450 --> 00:23:22.829 are you going to do with this now that this happened 00:23:22.829 --> 00:23:24.890 how are you going to change your life what are 00:23:24.890 --> 00:23:27.250 you going to do with this and i thought about 00:23:27.250 --> 00:23:29.779 that a lot I don't know that I changed my whole 00:23:29.779 --> 00:23:33.700 life a lot, in that I always thought that, you 00:23:33.700 --> 00:23:35.759 know, honesty is the best policy and you have 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.140 to be accountable. I've always attempted to be 00:23:38.140 --> 00:23:40.859 the best human being I could be at any given 00:23:40.859 --> 00:23:43.980 point in time. But I struggle, what do you do 00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:49.240 with this? And over the years, as life has ebbed 00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:51.799 and flowed, it's come to me at this point in 00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:54.059 time where it's like, you know what, there's 00:23:54.059 --> 00:23:56.980 an important message here. And I think it's important 00:23:56.980 --> 00:24:00.309 to talk about it. especially in these times where 00:24:00.309 --> 00:24:03.549 everything is so divisive. Everybody, I think, 00:24:03.569 --> 00:24:08.730 needs a reminder to slow down a minute and think. 00:24:09.009 --> 00:24:11.049 You know, when you put your socks on this morning, 00:24:11.150 --> 00:24:13.269 Eric, you did left foot, right foot or right 00:24:13.269 --> 00:24:15.349 foot, left foot, one or the other. I don't have 00:24:15.349 --> 00:24:20.410 socks on today. Sorry. All right. Mess up my 00:24:20.410 --> 00:24:22.809 analogy. Why don't you? I've got pants on. It's 00:24:22.809 --> 00:24:25.549 the same thing. Just giving you a hard time. 00:24:26.140 --> 00:24:28.500 That's it, you know, but what we're hungry we 00:24:28.500 --> 00:24:31.059 want food, you know, when it's when it's cold 00:24:31.059 --> 00:24:34.339 and wet we want shelter and warmth Yeah, and 00:24:34.339 --> 00:24:37.119 when we're sad and lonely, we want somebody to 00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:39.759 love us and hug us You know, we all want our 00:24:39.759 --> 00:24:42.680 children to do better than we did. That's humanity 00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:47.160 and I Think many times we forget that we get 00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:51.460 caught up in our own World we get caught up in 00:24:51.460 --> 00:24:53.839 this is happening and that's happening. I think 00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:57.440 humans are naturally Gossips were social creatures. 00:24:57.539 --> 00:25:01.299 So yeah, and and what travels quicker bad news 00:25:01.299 --> 00:25:04.779 So, you know what time for a kindness revolution. 00:25:05.359 --> 00:25:08.940 Let's uh spread some good news. I love it And 00:25:08.940 --> 00:25:11.740 to go with what you just said about this is happening 00:25:11.740 --> 00:25:14.980 and that's happening We often are self -centered 00:25:14.980 --> 00:25:18.140 enough to go. This is happening to me and that's 00:25:18.140 --> 00:25:21.440 happening to me That's why we need to get out 00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:24.779 of ourselves Think about others and do for others 00:25:24.910 --> 00:25:27.190 When you and I were talking the other day, the 00:25:27.190 --> 00:25:29.529 word gratitude came up a lot. I wrote it down 00:25:29.529 --> 00:25:33.170 in my notes. How does that fit in with what you 00:25:33.170 --> 00:25:35.849 learned? I said a little bit earlier. I think 00:25:35.849 --> 00:25:40.750 that the foundation of our lives is honesty. 00:25:40.809 --> 00:25:42.509 We have to be honest with others. We have to 00:25:42.509 --> 00:25:46.490 be honest with ourselves. But built on that foundation 00:25:46.490 --> 00:25:52.869 is compassion, curiosity, gratitude, humility, 00:25:52.990 --> 00:25:57.650 and kindness. Gratitude, you know, stuff happens 00:25:57.650 --> 00:26:01.130 all the time. You know, we're in the big pond 00:26:01.130 --> 00:26:04.230 of life, everybody's throwing rocks in it, and 00:26:04.230 --> 00:26:07.490 we're going to get hit with ripples. It's important, 00:26:07.490 --> 00:26:10.569 I think, to take the view, again, quiet yourself 00:26:10.569 --> 00:26:13.410 and look at what, while there may be a lot of 00:26:13.410 --> 00:26:16.250 bad things happening, there is so much to be 00:26:16.250 --> 00:26:20.539 grateful for. And when you can turn that this 00:26:20.539 --> 00:26:23.299 is happening to me as you as you had said or 00:26:23.299 --> 00:26:25.740 these you know this is happening in the world 00:26:25.740 --> 00:26:31.980 and you say you know I am grateful for and I 00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:34.400 do that every morning I have spent about a half 00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:37.440 an hour stretching and meditating and and part 00:26:37.440 --> 00:26:41.839 of part of that half hour is a practice of gratitude 00:26:41.839 --> 00:26:45.569 I'm grateful that I have the life that I have. 00:26:45.809 --> 00:26:48.450 I'm grateful that my children have grown and 00:26:48.450 --> 00:26:50.769 brought me wonderful grandchildren and that we're 00:26:50.769 --> 00:26:54.089 close as a family. I'm grateful that I have had 00:26:54.089 --> 00:26:56.670 the opportunities that I've had. I'm grateful 00:26:56.670 --> 00:26:59.750 I get to interact with so many different people 00:26:59.750 --> 00:27:04.390 and spread the same word. There's always something 00:27:04.390 --> 00:27:08.470 there to be grateful for. Even if you're having 00:27:08.470 --> 00:27:12.180 a lousy day, you know it's like okay i'm grateful 00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:14.460 because there's something i can learn from this 00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:20.240 it can fix your lousy day too absolutely absolutely 00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:24.900 i think those five pillars compassion which is 00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:28.039 you know trying to walk in somebody else's shoes 00:27:28.039 --> 00:27:32.339 curiosity having the the fortitude and the open 00:27:32.339 --> 00:27:35.680 mind to say wait there's something bigger better 00:27:35.680 --> 00:27:38.710 different than what I'm thinking in my world. 00:27:38.910 --> 00:27:42.170 Let me be open and hear it. Gratitude, we just 00:27:42.170 --> 00:27:47.130 talked about. Humility is, again, getting out 00:27:47.130 --> 00:27:49.130 of yourself and just saying, OK, we're going 00:27:49.130 --> 00:27:51.730 to do this together. Because quite frankly, we 00:27:51.730 --> 00:27:57.289 are a gigantic team. There's an old Nigerian 00:27:57.289 --> 00:27:59.890 proverb that says, if you want to go fast, go 00:27:59.890 --> 00:28:03.269 alone. If you want to go far, go together. We're 00:28:03.269 --> 00:28:07.079 wired to go together. So in order to do that, 00:28:07.299 --> 00:28:10.539 it's not, look at me, go, go, go. It's like, 00:28:10.619 --> 00:28:12.559 well, let's do this. And that's being humble. 00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:15.619 And then, of course, the underlying to all of 00:28:15.619 --> 00:28:18.779 that is kindness. When you're in the grocery 00:28:18.779 --> 00:28:21.400 store and everybody has their little name tag 00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:23.079 and somebody's checking you out, call them by 00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:27.579 their name. Just simple little things like that 00:28:27.579 --> 00:28:31.819 that just make life go so much smoother. Is there 00:28:31.819 --> 00:28:35.720 more to this for, as you told me, you've learned 00:28:35.720 --> 00:28:38.759 more about the purpose of life. I think you've 00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:41.299 already covered a lot of it. Is there any more 00:28:41.299 --> 00:28:45.180 that you want to fill in? You know, in all honesty, 00:28:45.339 --> 00:28:48.140 I think that that foundation that we just talked 00:28:48.140 --> 00:28:51.640 about is really the key. I think the difficult 00:28:51.640 --> 00:28:54.740 part for all of us, you know, I'll go back to 00:28:54.740 --> 00:28:56.940 that fear and love conversation we had a little 00:28:56.940 --> 00:29:01.259 bit earlier. I think the difficult part For all 00:29:01.259 --> 00:29:04.880 of us is to step outside of ourselves to remind 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:07.859 ourselves that We are part of everything and 00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:11.599 what we do and what we how we react impacts so 00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:15.519 many other people So so step back. That's a practice. 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.690 We need to develop those habits I'm still working 00:29:18.690 --> 00:29:20.990 on developing those habits every day. I still 00:29:20.990 --> 00:29:24.269 get annoyed and angry at the guy who's driving 00:29:24.269 --> 00:29:26.609 like a knucklehead because I never drive like 00:29:26.609 --> 00:29:28.490 a knucklehead. It's always the other person. 00:29:28.809 --> 00:29:32.750 We're perfect drivers. Absolutely. Exactly. Exactly. 00:29:33.269 --> 00:29:37.750 I think that's that is that reminder the NDE 00:29:37.750 --> 00:29:42.130 for me put an exclamation mark on that and allows 00:29:42.130 --> 00:29:46.750 me when I have my doubts, which everybody does, 00:29:47.150 --> 00:29:51.269 I come back to that and it helps center me. That's 00:29:51.269 --> 00:29:54.569 why I do that practice in the morning, because 00:29:54.569 --> 00:29:57.069 I'm old, I need to stretch, but I'm going to 00:29:57.069 --> 00:29:59.670 use that time to say, okay, how are we going 00:29:59.670 --> 00:30:01.650 to make this day better? What are we going to 00:30:01.650 --> 00:30:05.430 do? And continue that mantra in my head. And 00:30:05.430 --> 00:30:08.349 that's, I'd recommend that to anybody and everybody. 00:30:09.089 --> 00:30:11.970 I think as you put it, this NDE didn't change 00:30:11.970 --> 00:30:14.670 you that much. I think it's because you were 00:30:14.670 --> 00:30:17.700 already a really good person. Well, thank you. 00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:20.680 It didn't need to it just like you said it just 00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:25.359 put an asterix on it Yeah, it's I grew up in 00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:29.940 I came of age in the in the middle late 60s early 00:30:29.940 --> 00:30:37.400 70s. It was arguably even more chaotic and crazy 00:30:37.400 --> 00:30:40.200 time than we have today. There were political 00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:43.160 assassinations in our country. We had cities 00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:48.059 on fire. We were fighting in a war that seemed 00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:53.740 and was senseless. And yet, I'm growing up with, 00:30:53.740 --> 00:30:57.119 you know, parents who taught me love is the answer. 00:30:57.559 --> 00:31:02.430 You know, our music told us that. And I had a 00:31:02.430 --> 00:31:04.809 really hard time reconciling, although that's 00:31:04.809 --> 00:31:06.549 like, quite frankly, that's why I studied the 00:31:06.549 --> 00:31:09.009 history of thought. I had a hard time reconciling 00:31:09.009 --> 00:31:12.089 that because it's always better to be good. That 00:31:12.089 --> 00:31:14.329 path, being honest, yeah, you may get in the 00:31:14.329 --> 00:31:17.029 trouble, you know, over doing something wrong, 00:31:17.130 --> 00:31:19.670 but we're going to do something wrong. If I lie 00:31:19.670 --> 00:31:21.890 about it, it's going to get a whole lot worse. 00:31:22.349 --> 00:31:26.210 So let's just try to do the right thing. My parents 00:31:26.210 --> 00:31:28.750 instilled that in me. I tried to instill that 00:31:28.750 --> 00:31:32.460 in my kids. They heard from me. ad nauseum, you 00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:34.539 know, what's done in the dark comes out in the 00:31:34.539 --> 00:31:39.279 light. But it seemed to work. And thanks for 00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:42.500 mentioning music. Didn't the Beatles say all 00:31:42.500 --> 00:31:47.920 we need is love? Yes, indeed. As a matter of 00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:52.079 fact, I've used that line many times. All right. 00:31:52.500 --> 00:31:55.720 Hey, before I let you go. I did want to mention 00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:59.200 you've got a book out, Finding the Eye of the 00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:02.460 Storm. I can't wait to read it. Is there anything 00:32:02.460 --> 00:32:05.359 you want to mention about that? Yeah, thank you. 00:32:05.660 --> 00:32:08.839 In trying to describe what had happened, I spent 00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:12.180 a lot of time thinking, and then I said, well, 00:32:12.180 --> 00:32:14.180 you know what, I need to put this down on paper. 00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:18.079 So some of the things that we've talked about 00:32:18.079 --> 00:32:23.690 are in that book, as are what I have done. for 00:32:23.690 --> 00:32:28.910 me as habits to help me stay balanced and centered. 00:32:29.170 --> 00:32:32.390 It's worked for me. I'm offering this book to 00:32:32.390 --> 00:32:35.970 your listeners at a discount as well. There's 00:32:35.970 --> 00:32:38.069 a link I think that we're going to be putting 00:32:38.069 --> 00:32:40.549 out there. We'll stick a link in the show notes. 00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:45.140 I'm not sure the date that this podcast is going 00:32:45.140 --> 00:32:48.259 to come out. It's going to be right around Christmas 00:32:48.259 --> 00:32:51.519 before or after, even if it's after. Yeah, I 00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:53.859 think it'd make a cool gift for somebody. So 00:32:53.859 --> 00:32:56.319 thanks for the deal on that. I'm going to give 00:32:56.319 --> 00:32:59.059 you the very last word. Okay, you've already 00:32:59.059 --> 00:33:02.160 left us with 10 messages of hope and I appreciate 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:06.480 it so much. One last one. Go for it. One last 00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:08.920 one. Now you really put me on the spot here. 00:33:10.539 --> 00:33:13.700 I think the last word I'm going to leave you 00:33:13.700 --> 00:33:18.859 is that we're all okay. In our souls, we are 00:33:18.859 --> 00:33:22.259 all okay. Yeah, there are some of us, our spirits 00:33:22.259 --> 00:33:26.920 are broken, but they can be fixed. Just remember, 00:33:27.539 --> 00:33:31.940 love does carry the day and our fears when we 00:33:31.940 --> 00:33:36.680 approach them with curiosity, humility, and kindness 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:40.180 when we approach other people that way. It shrinks 00:33:40.180 --> 00:33:42.960 our fears. People who are out there trolling 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:46.420 it, they lose control over you when you focus 00:33:46.420 --> 00:33:49.380 your life on love. Beautifully said, Richard 00:33:49.380 --> 00:33:52.339 Green. Appreciate you being with me today. Eric, 00:33:52.420 --> 00:33:55.980 thank you so much for this opportunity and everybody 00:33:55.980 --> 00:34:00.220 have a wonderful holiday. Thanks again for listening 00:34:00.220 --> 00:34:02.680 and sharing this podcast. Don't forget to hit 00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:05.519 the follow or subscribe button and sign up for 00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:08.389 our newsletter at RoundTripDesk .com. If you 00:34:08.389 --> 00:34:10.929 want to share your near -death experience, or 00:34:10.929 --> 00:34:12.889 if you have questions or comments about the show, 00:34:13.389 --> 00:34:16.469 send an email to eric at roundtripdeath .com. 00:34:16.829 --> 00:34:18.969 Until then, I wish you everything good that you're 00:34:18.969 --> 00:34:21.389 looking for in this life and the next.