WEBVTT 00:00:03.209 --> 00:00:05.929 Merry Christmas and welcome to Round Trip Death. 00:00:06.450 --> 00:00:08.929 Before we jump into today's interview, just a 00:00:08.929 --> 00:00:12.130 personal note from Will and me. Will is my son 00:00:12.130 --> 00:00:14.869 and he does the editing on the show. This whole 00:00:14.869 --> 00:00:17.570 thing is put together every week for the last 00:00:17.570 --> 00:00:21.370 nearly four years by just the two of us and of 00:00:21.370 --> 00:00:24.629 course our amazing guests. We limit sponsors 00:00:24.629 --> 00:00:27.809 as much as possible and rarely ask for donations. 00:00:28.170 --> 00:00:31.350 Your positive emails and reviews are what keeps 00:00:31.350 --> 00:00:34.770 up our motivation to do this every week. This 00:00:34.770 --> 00:00:37.770 year, no, this week, in fact maybe even today, 00:00:38.329 --> 00:00:41.810 I'm asking a favor. We're in the mood for Christmas 00:00:41.810 --> 00:00:44.770 cards. So if you have one left over from sending 00:00:44.770 --> 00:00:47.929 to friends and family, please send us one. It'd 00:00:47.929 --> 00:00:50.530 be so fun to hear from listeners in this way. 00:00:50.950 --> 00:00:54.109 Simply address it to Eric and Will P .O. Box 00:00:54.109 --> 00:00:59.130 771 Heber City, Utah 84032. I'll put it down 00:00:59.130 --> 00:01:01.829 in the show notes. I hope you have a wonderful 00:01:01.829 --> 00:01:09.500 holiday season. Now enjoy the show. Welcome, 00:01:09.500 --> 00:01:11.739 welcome to Round Trip Death everybody. We're 00:01:11.739 --> 00:01:15.540 gonna have fun today meeting with Tammy Lee Anderson. 00:01:16.140 --> 00:01:18.879 Tammy, welcome to the show. How are you? Thank 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:21.340 you, Eric. Thank you for inviting me on your 00:01:21.340 --> 00:01:24.480 show. This is wonderful. I'm looking forward 00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:28.579 to talking with you and enjoying your audience. 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.900 Well, thank you. You have a cool, unusual story 00:01:32.900 --> 00:01:37.120 with three NDE's built in. from a super young 00:01:37.120 --> 00:01:40.439 age to a little bit older of an age. I throw 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:43.200 that out to get everybody's attention. But first 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:46.359 you have such an interesting, have had such an 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:49.980 interesting life and past. Tell us just a little 00:01:49.980 --> 00:01:52.599 bit about you. Quite an interesting life. I've 00:01:52.599 --> 00:01:56.000 had many lives in one. Many different experiences. 00:01:56.739 --> 00:01:59.799 Don't hold back. You're being shy now. A minute 00:01:59.799 --> 00:02:02.420 ago you weren't. Go ahead and throw some of these 00:02:02.420 --> 00:02:04.540 things out here that most people haven't done. 00:02:04.780 --> 00:02:08.120 I'm an Aikido teacher. I've been in martial arts. 00:02:08.599 --> 00:02:11.620 Aikido means the way of harmony. I've done that 00:02:11.620 --> 00:02:16.539 for 44 years. I started that when I was in junior 00:02:16.539 --> 00:02:20.219 college, right after high school. And that Aikido 00:02:20.219 --> 00:02:23.460 blends with so much that I do in my life, whether 00:02:23.460 --> 00:02:27.389 it be I'm a practicing medium at this time. That's 00:02:27.389 --> 00:02:30.129 my, I think my last career, but I've had many. 00:02:30.430 --> 00:02:34.669 I'm a licensed psychotherapist as well as a kinesiologist. 00:02:34.969 --> 00:02:38.449 So my work has been in structural body work for 00:02:38.449 --> 00:02:41.710 over 30 years, but I've blended this psychotherapy 00:02:41.710 --> 00:02:45.530 with the body work. And that was very interesting. 00:02:45.550 --> 00:02:49.509 And then COVID hit and I moved into practicing 00:02:49.509 --> 00:02:53.050 mediumship. I heard about Suzanne Giesemann and 00:02:53.050 --> 00:02:56.699 her story, messages of hope. That just led me 00:02:56.699 --> 00:03:00.139 into a direction that was quite amazing. And 00:03:00.139 --> 00:03:03.419 so I've been doing mediumship practicing it since 00:03:03.419 --> 00:03:08.419 2018 and loving it, loving every bit of it. I 00:03:08.419 --> 00:03:12.680 was also on the five -time national championship 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:16.879 team for flatwater kayaking, so national championships 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:23.770 five times, and on Olympic trials in 1980. And 00:03:23.770 --> 00:03:27.710 I expected to make that 84 team while I was working 00:03:27.710 --> 00:03:31.030 towards that, but then all the politics got involved 00:03:31.030 --> 00:03:35.909 and so I ended that and I joined the Air Force. 00:03:35.909 --> 00:03:39.150 So I've made many, many lives in one. For over 00:03:39.150 --> 00:03:42.469 13 years I lived in different monasteries around 00:03:42.469 --> 00:03:46.189 the world. I lived in a Benedictine monastery 00:03:46.189 --> 00:03:49.909 and a hermitage for a year. Spirituality has 00:03:49.909 --> 00:03:52.939 always been something that has been a thrust, 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:57.780 underlying attraction for me. You can ask me 00:03:57.780 --> 00:04:00.139 any questions of any of that if you'd like. Well, 00:04:00.340 --> 00:04:02.800 do you think your near -death experiences early 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:06.780 in life led you down that path? I do because 00:04:06.780 --> 00:04:10.199 I was quite sensitive as a child and I do write 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:13.020 about this stuff in a book that I just published 00:04:13.020 --> 00:04:16.720 in August. I write about how it affected my childhood. 00:04:16.819 --> 00:04:20.480 I was quite sensitive. I also had precognition. 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:24.000 which I did not for most of my life see that 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:26.680 that was of any benefit. It was actually more 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:30.160 of a burden than anything to know when people 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:33.839 were passing. Be more specific. Did that happen 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:37.000 once? Does that happen all the time? All my life, 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:41.139 yeah. Let's give you an example. I'd walk by 00:04:41.139 --> 00:04:43.040 people and I'd sense that they were going away. 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:45.720 I was aware when my grandfather, when he was 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:49.800 ready to pass, I believe I was around 16 at the 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:53.000 time, I could feel that his time was ending and 00:04:53.000 --> 00:04:55.759 he was one of the healthiest people you would 00:04:55.759 --> 00:04:58.500 ever meet. He worked for the city as a gardener 00:04:58.500 --> 00:05:01.920 and he was very physical all his life. But I 00:05:01.920 --> 00:05:05.740 could feel that his time was coming and that 00:05:05.740 --> 00:05:08.560 kind of feeling is not very comfortable when 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:11.920 you know that you can't change it. I had an experience 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:15.120 where I was with a friend who was a priest and 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:17.560 he was going to pray with someone because he 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:21.240 had a gift of healing. And I decided that I was 00:05:21.240 --> 00:05:23.600 going to connect and that, even though he didn't 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:26.379 tell me who he was going to meet with, you know, 00:05:26.379 --> 00:05:29.620 that's all private and all that. But I decided, 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:31.720 well, I'm just sitting here waiting for him. 00:05:31.720 --> 00:05:34.920 So I'll just connect and pray for that, whoever 00:05:34.920 --> 00:05:37.899 he's meeting with. And this little girl showed 00:05:37.899 --> 00:05:42.379 up in my awareness. She was about 10 or 11 years 00:05:42.379 --> 00:05:48.519 old. She told me her name was Cassie and She 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:52.759 told me she'd be passing soon. Well, I didn't 00:05:52.759 --> 00:05:55.100 tell anybody. I didn't even tell my friend because 00:05:55.100 --> 00:05:58.220 I thought he'd think I was nuts. I did tell my 00:05:58.220 --> 00:06:03.000 sister because she knows I'm nuts. And so I shared 00:06:03.000 --> 00:06:04.860 with her. I said, let's keep an eye on the paper 00:06:04.860 --> 00:06:07.300 because this little girl is going to pass within 00:06:07.300 --> 00:06:10.899 the week. So we did. And sure enough, she passed. 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:14.899 Her name was Cassie Short for Katherine. And 00:06:14.899 --> 00:06:18.230 she had cancer. She was just a little girl. So 00:06:18.230 --> 00:06:21.629 these kind of things, my brother's death, a mentor 00:06:21.629 --> 00:06:24.329 of mine, you know, my brother's death, every 00:06:24.329 --> 00:06:27.269 time he'd turn his back and walk away from me, 00:06:27.329 --> 00:06:29.209 I would get this like somebody's punching me 00:06:29.209 --> 00:06:32.189 in the stomach, like he was going away and not 00:06:32.189 --> 00:06:35.649 coming back. After he passed, he was in a car 00:06:35.649 --> 00:06:38.110 accident, and I had that several months before 00:06:38.110 --> 00:06:41.459 he was going to pass. After you passed, I went 00:06:41.459 --> 00:06:43.399 into a real deep depression because I thought, 00:06:43.660 --> 00:06:45.279 well, you know, you could have said something 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:48.060 or changed something. And it was quite a downhill 00:06:48.060 --> 00:06:51.259 for me at that time. And the interesting thing 00:06:51.259 --> 00:06:54.600 about is I had depression since I was a little 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:57.660 kid all the way up till right after my brother's 00:06:57.660 --> 00:06:59.920 death. And then I didn't have it anymore because 00:06:59.920 --> 00:07:04.319 of an experience I had after his passing. And 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:06.319 we can talk more about that later if you like, 00:07:06.660 --> 00:07:11.550 what happened. Yeah. I do believe that that depression 00:07:11.550 --> 00:07:15.949 that I had as a child was deeply connected to 00:07:15.949 --> 00:07:19.089 the sensitivity that I had as a child, but also 00:07:19.089 --> 00:07:24.550 the ache. I was born, stillborn, born dead, so 00:07:24.550 --> 00:07:26.810 no life. They told my mom, oh, sorry, she didn't 00:07:26.810 --> 00:07:30.089 make it. And then I had another near -death experience 00:07:30.089 --> 00:07:32.810 at about five months old when they gave me an 00:07:32.810 --> 00:07:35.250 anesthesia that stopped my heart and they had 00:07:35.250 --> 00:07:37.910 to bring me back. so I can talk about what those 00:07:37.910 --> 00:07:40.569 experiences were like, but what I can tell you 00:07:40.569 --> 00:07:44.189 is how it affected me. I had this ache since 00:07:44.189 --> 00:07:47.670 I was a child remembering that there was more 00:07:47.670 --> 00:07:51.230 than this. I just yearned to be back into that 00:07:51.230 --> 00:07:55.629 all -encompassing love, all -encompassing unconditional 00:07:55.629 --> 00:07:59.750 feeling of love. So I was searching. I knew this 00:07:59.750 --> 00:08:03.389 wasn't the whole story, so... that searching 00:08:03.389 --> 00:08:07.329 lasted for many years, even after these memories 00:08:07.329 --> 00:08:12.689 were relived at 17 from a prayer from a priest, 00:08:12.990 --> 00:08:15.689 and we can talk about that. I think that's great 00:08:15.689 --> 00:08:18.629 background, and I don't want to keep people in 00:08:18.629 --> 00:08:20.889 suspense any longer, but thank you for all that 00:08:20.889 --> 00:08:25.509 background. Let's start with the first of three 00:08:25.509 --> 00:08:29.160 NDEs. And people are going to say, how in the 00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:31.319 world do you remember this? We'll get to that. 00:08:31.339 --> 00:08:34.840 Be patient, everybody. But you were stillborn. 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:39.120 Tell me about that because you remember some 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:41.840 of that. Isn't that interesting? Because I don't 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:44.120 understand how I remember either. I can't really 00:08:44.120 --> 00:08:47.399 tell you, but I do. So what happened was when 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:51.169 I was 17, there was a church near my home. I 00:08:51.169 --> 00:08:53.710 would go there often just because I liked the 00:08:53.710 --> 00:08:56.549 quiet. I've always been attracted to the silence. 00:08:57.190 --> 00:08:59.370 Because I felt when I sat in the silence, and 00:08:59.370 --> 00:09:03.450 I still do, I just feel like I can breathe. I 00:09:03.450 --> 00:09:07.330 feel this peace of sitting in the quiet and the 00:09:07.330 --> 00:09:10.769 stillness. And that church near my home, I loved 00:09:10.769 --> 00:09:13.190 the smell of incense. I loved to see the candles 00:09:13.190 --> 00:09:16.370 burning. I didn't go there when people were there. 00:09:16.409 --> 00:09:18.970 I'd go there when it was empty and just sit in 00:09:18.970 --> 00:09:23.840 the back. I just would go into a place of real 00:09:23.840 --> 00:09:27.720 deep peace. Well, there was this priest there 00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:30.899 and he would often see me. And one day he walked 00:09:30.899 --> 00:09:34.360 up to me and said, you come here often. What 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:37.940 brings you here? And I couldn't articulate what 00:09:37.940 --> 00:09:39.799 brought me here. I just said, you know, it feels 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:44.220 good to be in the quiet. And he said, can I say 00:09:44.220 --> 00:09:46.740 a prayer for you? I didn't know what that was 00:09:46.740 --> 00:09:50.039 about, because I was never brought up in a religion. 00:09:51.080 --> 00:09:52.940 And I thought, well, maybe he'd say a few words 00:09:52.940 --> 00:09:56.360 and go away. But he put his hands on my head, 00:09:56.700 --> 00:10:00.620 and I felt this heat just permeate through my 00:10:00.620 --> 00:10:05.000 whole body. It felt like warm honey going through 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:08.059 me. And then it went into my solar plexus. And 00:10:08.059 --> 00:10:11.210 then there was like this explosion. It's more 00:10:11.210 --> 00:10:14.549 than remembering. It was a re -experiencing. 00:10:14.850 --> 00:10:19.610 And I was aware of my mother's emotions. I was 00:10:19.610 --> 00:10:25.129 aware of her fear. I was aware of her shame because 00:10:25.129 --> 00:10:29.029 I was born two months premature. Being born two 00:10:29.029 --> 00:10:32.549 months premature broke the secret. At the time, 00:10:32.629 --> 00:10:35.690 I was... I was conceived before my parents got 00:10:35.690 --> 00:10:38.350 married, which was a big secret then, you know, 00:10:38.409 --> 00:10:41.110 it was a big shame there. And I felt that shame. 00:10:41.230 --> 00:10:44.169 She had never shared this with me. And after 00:10:44.169 --> 00:10:46.610 this experience, I shared with her and she just, 00:10:46.950 --> 00:10:50.009 the tears, felt like she was carrying that weight 00:10:50.009 --> 00:10:53.570 of that for many years. Anyways, they got married 00:10:53.570 --> 00:10:54.870 and thinking that, you know, everything would 00:10:54.870 --> 00:10:56.809 be good. And then I came early and broke the 00:10:56.809 --> 00:11:00.809 secret. I weighed four pounds. I think three 00:11:00.809 --> 00:11:03.610 ounces and went down to three pounds, three ounces. 00:11:04.129 --> 00:11:08.090 Really premature. And when I was born, I was 00:11:08.090 --> 00:11:12.350 38 hours of labor for my poor mom. And the cord 00:11:12.350 --> 00:11:15.110 was wrapped around my neck. I was stuck in the 00:11:15.110 --> 00:11:18.529 canal. And by the time they got me out, I wasn't 00:11:18.529 --> 00:11:21.389 breathing. I was blue and took me out and said, 00:11:21.850 --> 00:11:25.129 sorry, she didn't make it. Well, I was aware. 00:11:25.470 --> 00:11:28.149 of this happening. I was aware of my mother's 00:11:28.149 --> 00:11:31.210 emotions. I was aware of the scrambling of people 00:11:31.210 --> 00:11:34.049 around trying to figure out what to do with this 00:11:34.049 --> 00:11:35.889 and if they were going to try to bring this little 00:11:35.889 --> 00:11:39.230 baby back and they were doing their best in another 00:11:39.230 --> 00:11:43.090 room. But I was also aware of being in bliss. 00:11:43.549 --> 00:11:47.549 I was just surrounded by light and love and it 00:11:47.549 --> 00:11:51.289 felt like home. My mother's energy, I felt like 00:11:51.289 --> 00:11:53.250 my mother was like a beacon of light pulling 00:11:53.250 --> 00:11:57.659 me back. her desire you know I could feel her 00:11:57.659 --> 00:12:00.080 like you know she worked all that 38 hours and 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:03.720 she was willing me back to being back in a body. 00:12:03.820 --> 00:12:07.279 They got me going again and I can just say that 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:09.480 I was very aware of her emotions. I was aware 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:12.500 of everyone's emotion mostly in that experience 00:12:12.500 --> 00:12:17.039 and I was aware of the peace and being home feeling 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:21.340 that everybody talks about. During that prayer 00:12:21.340 --> 00:12:25.649 I was aware of flooding memories of the second 00:12:25.649 --> 00:12:29.929 one where at about five months I had to have 00:12:29.929 --> 00:12:32.990 a surgery because the fontanels had closed. So 00:12:32.990 --> 00:12:35.230 those soft spots in the baby's head that allows 00:12:35.230 --> 00:12:38.730 the baby's head to grow, they were closed. And 00:12:38.730 --> 00:12:41.970 so I either would have died or not been mentally 00:12:41.970 --> 00:12:44.629 capable of doing much at all if I would have 00:12:44.629 --> 00:12:47.370 lived. So they really had no choice to do the 00:12:47.370 --> 00:12:51.299 surgery and luckily there were two pioneer surgeons 00:12:51.299 --> 00:12:53.620 that just happened to visit the little hospital 00:12:53.620 --> 00:12:56.340 that I was in. They volunteered to do the surgery. 00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:59.940 Because I was so small, the first attempt at 00:12:59.940 --> 00:13:03.320 this surgery stopped my heart. And so I went 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:07.139 out of my body. And again, I was aware of the 00:13:07.139 --> 00:13:12.960 light. I was aware of deep peace and this unconditional 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:15.860 love. And this is so hard to put into words because 00:13:15.860 --> 00:13:19.440 it's such an experience. But what I can say is 00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:23.940 It felt like all the light beings that were surrounding 00:13:23.940 --> 00:13:28.980 me, I knew them always. It felt like home. I 00:13:28.980 --> 00:13:32.580 just felt this warmth. And then I was jarred 00:13:32.580 --> 00:13:37.480 back into my body. It was just like the contrast 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:40.379 between being in the piece of the light and then 00:13:40.379 --> 00:13:43.600 being brought into these bright lights of the 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:47.620 operating room where I was shaking in fear. It 00:13:47.620 --> 00:13:51.440 was quite a contrast. They did attempt to do, 00:13:51.519 --> 00:13:53.659 well they did make a successful attempt at the 00:13:53.659 --> 00:13:56.779 surgery several months after that because on 00:13:56.779 --> 00:13:58.779 that one they had to bring my heart back, it 00:13:58.779 --> 00:14:02.340 stopped. So they had to shock it back. But then 00:14:02.340 --> 00:14:05.379 a few months later, when I got a little bit more 00:14:05.379 --> 00:14:07.940 weight, they decided to try it again and they 00:14:07.940 --> 00:14:11.980 were successful. On that one, it didn't feel 00:14:11.980 --> 00:14:15.299 like the same as the first two. I was very, very 00:14:15.299 --> 00:14:19.490 aware. I wasn't... so much out of my body as 00:14:19.490 --> 00:14:21.470 you know what it felt like as I was going in 00:14:21.470 --> 00:14:24.409 between but I don't feel like I was out of my 00:14:24.409 --> 00:14:27.450 I was not completely in the light but what I 00:14:27.450 --> 00:14:31.049 was very aware of was being held in the light 00:14:31.049 --> 00:14:34.090 and it was different than being totally out of 00:14:34.090 --> 00:14:36.690 my body but I felt like I was being held in the 00:14:36.690 --> 00:14:40.750 light and at the same time I was feeling the 00:14:40.750 --> 00:14:43.669 terror because they didn't hardly give me any 00:14:43.669 --> 00:14:46.779 anesthesia at that time. I experienced everything. 00:14:47.299 --> 00:14:50.200 And when I had that remembering, I didn't think 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:52.379 it was that much of a gift. I thought that was 00:14:52.379 --> 00:14:54.139 supposed to be a healing thing, a prayer, you 00:14:54.139 --> 00:14:57.340 know, and I didn't see the good of remembering 00:14:57.340 --> 00:15:02.500 this. Yeah, it brought back trauma. It was traumatized. 00:15:02.659 --> 00:15:06.259 I mean, I was shaking. It was super cold. I remember 00:15:06.259 --> 00:15:09.059 being shivering, but shivering not just because 00:15:09.059 --> 00:15:11.480 of the cold of the room, but shivering because 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:14.000 of the fear. I feel like I couldn't breathe so 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.980 I'm sure that they had something in my throat 00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:20.279 because I felt like I couldn't breathe. So I 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:22.259 didn't think that was too much of a gift and 00:15:22.259 --> 00:15:25.720 so I wish on one part that I wouldn't have remembered 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:30.679 such things as that but I did. What this did, 00:15:30.940 --> 00:15:35.799 how it affected me, I felt as a... I was super 00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:39.779 sensitive as a child to sounds, to light, to 00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:43.320 hearing, and I really sought often the quiet. 00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:46.279 I would hang out in my closet a lot because it 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:49.220 was just quiet in there, and I liked the safety 00:15:49.220 --> 00:15:52.600 of a small space. My mom babysitted at the time 00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:55.000 with lots of kids, like 20 -some kids, and I 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:58.120 was aware of their emotions. I was aware of their 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:02.340 ups and downs. I was aware of their noises. overwhelmed, 00:16:02.379 --> 00:16:04.659 so I'd go hang out in the backyard or in the 00:16:04.659 --> 00:16:06.960 tree. There was a great big plum tree I loved 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:10.720 to hang out in, and I would just get out. And 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:15.120 so that's the remembering then. And how that 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.960 affected me is I was always searching for that 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:21.220 light again, always searching for that love and 00:16:21.220 --> 00:16:25.320 that peace. That's what drew me. I felt depression 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:29.259 for most of my young life. That lasted until 00:16:29.259 --> 00:16:33.419 after... after my brother's passing at 23. Do 00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:36.120 you think the depression was sort of a result 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:39.820 of the fact that you couldn't get to that light 00:16:39.820 --> 00:16:42.899 and that wonderful peaceful feeling again? Yeah, 00:16:43.100 --> 00:16:48.120 I was aware of such a drastic contrast and difference. 00:16:48.299 --> 00:16:51.389 I was like, this feels so heavy. I wanted to 00:16:51.389 --> 00:16:55.289 be back in that light. That drove me, and I think 00:16:55.289 --> 00:16:58.990 that was a big part of why I spent 13 years looking 00:16:58.990 --> 00:17:02.210 into different communities, religious communities, 00:17:02.649 --> 00:17:05.529 because I was searching for that again. And so 00:17:05.529 --> 00:17:09.170 I lived in hermitages, I lived in all kinds of 00:17:09.170 --> 00:17:11.450 religious communities. I loved community, the 00:17:11.450 --> 00:17:14.970 common vision, I loved the prayer, but I never 00:17:14.970 --> 00:17:17.779 could... commit to it because it was never what 00:17:17.779 --> 00:17:19.819 I was feeling and what I experienced couldn't 00:17:19.819 --> 00:17:23.859 fit into a box. I could take the vow of poverty, 00:17:24.019 --> 00:17:26.500 I could take the vow of chastity, but the vow 00:17:26.500 --> 00:17:28.779 of obedience to live, you know, and to make that 00:17:28.779 --> 00:17:32.059 final commitment, I never could do it. After 00:17:32.059 --> 00:17:34.740 13 -some years, there was an event that brought 00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:37.799 me back and I decided I was going to give up 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:41.720 that search. I went in a different direction. 00:17:42.690 --> 00:17:45.930 Okay, well I've had a few little questions as 00:17:45.930 --> 00:17:49.450 we go along but I find this fascinating and so 00:17:49.450 --> 00:17:52.069 I don't want to slow down quite yet. Let's go 00:17:52.069 --> 00:17:54.849 to your third NDE when you were 23 years old 00:17:54.849 --> 00:17:58.329 and then we'll circle back on some things. So 00:17:58.329 --> 00:18:02.829 what led up to that one? So in this one it was 00:18:02.829 --> 00:18:06.069 different. I was 23 at the time and I would often 00:18:06.069 --> 00:18:10.250 go into the mountains. I liked nature and I was 00:18:10.250 --> 00:18:14.380 hiking and I was attracted to the mystics and 00:18:14.380 --> 00:18:18.859 their experiences and so I was fasting for over 00:18:18.859 --> 00:18:21.400 a week. It was hot and I wasn't drinking enough 00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:24.940 so I overdid it and I had a heat stroke and I 00:18:24.940 --> 00:18:27.720 just collapsed. Did you say you were fasting 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:33.220 for a week? Yeah, yeah. Okay. You get a kind 00:18:33.220 --> 00:18:35.720 of a clarity when you're fasting and that's what 00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:40.019 I was reaching for. And so I was really out of 00:18:40.019 --> 00:18:42.240 it and I completely went out of it. I went out 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:46.240 of my body. And this time I did experience what 00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:49.420 people call the tunnel, but this tunnel was a 00:18:49.420 --> 00:18:52.819 tunnel of light and the edges had no boundaries. 00:18:53.579 --> 00:18:56.880 If that makes any sense at all. It wasn't a tunnel 00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:00.480 like it has restrictive feeling. It was expansive. 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:04.019 And I felt like I was in a river of souls going 00:19:04.019 --> 00:19:06.559 towards this light, this unconditional love. 00:19:06.809 --> 00:19:09.210 and it was just, you know, just this drawing. 00:19:09.829 --> 00:19:12.670 And as I was moving towards this unconditional 00:19:12.670 --> 00:19:15.730 love, with no intention of going back into that 00:19:15.730 --> 00:19:19.490 body, I saw someone in front of me, and it was 00:19:19.490 --> 00:19:22.630 the back of him, and it was my grandfather. He 00:19:22.630 --> 00:19:25.069 had passed several years before, and I said, 00:19:25.549 --> 00:19:28.569 Papa, and he turned around. It was this blending 00:19:28.569 --> 00:19:33.900 of souls, way more than telepathic. It was It 00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:36.740 was this blending, this dissolving into the other. 00:19:37.259 --> 00:19:41.019 He was a very quiet man. It was just love, love, 00:19:41.019 --> 00:19:43.660 love. It's so hard to, I mean, love times a million 00:19:43.660 --> 00:19:48.019 times. And then I said to him, I said, have you 00:19:48.019 --> 00:19:50.940 met Jesus? Because I have a feeling that a lot 00:19:50.940 --> 00:19:53.559 of the stories about him are a little bit twisted. 00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:55.180 They're not, you know, I want to know the real, 00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:58.299 have you met him? As soon as I said that, Jesus 00:19:58.299 --> 00:20:01.950 was in front of me. I was looking into his eyes 00:20:01.950 --> 00:20:05.369 and I was just drawn into this Love that was 00:20:05.369 --> 00:20:08.349 beyond any any words that I can convey. It was 00:20:08.349 --> 00:20:13.230 I just started dissolving into this this bliss 00:20:13.230 --> 00:20:17.089 and As I was dissolving into this bliss there 00:20:17.089 --> 00:20:20.589 was a knowing that was happening Then what happened 00:20:20.589 --> 00:20:24.490 was this beautiful being kind of took me to the 00:20:24.490 --> 00:20:27.750 side because I was going into that and it feels 00:20:27.750 --> 00:20:31.529 like I feels like I am almost disappearing into 00:20:31.529 --> 00:20:35.589 that love. Forgetting all of the roles and the 00:20:35.589 --> 00:20:38.509 parameters of being human, I was just dissolving 00:20:38.509 --> 00:20:42.269 into that love, and willingly. When I got pulled 00:20:42.269 --> 00:20:46.130 to the side, then I got pulled back into my consciousness, 00:20:46.589 --> 00:20:49.869 or awareness in a sense, less dissolving. And 00:20:49.869 --> 00:20:52.589 what happened was, I started asking questions 00:20:52.589 --> 00:20:54.950 to this being. And the interesting thing is, 00:20:54.950 --> 00:20:58.980 as the time has gone by, Eric I honestly feel 00:20:58.980 --> 00:21:02.720 this beautiful being was me I know that sounds 00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:07.000 really strange, but I just feel it was just So 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.859 beautiful there was so much knowing Anyways, 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:13.640 I can't put into words, but I just feel that 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:17.240 that as an aspect of me So I was asking questions 00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:20.599 like why do people suffer? Why are there wars? 00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:23.480 Why do babies you know have all this trouble 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:26.869 and abused? It's a Y Y Y and I didn't know I 00:21:26.869 --> 00:21:29.210 had so many questions but as I was asking these 00:21:29.210 --> 00:21:32.890 questions with my words I realized I didn't have 00:21:32.890 --> 00:21:36.009 to use my words as soon as I thought the question 00:21:36.009 --> 00:21:40.589 the answer came in to my awareness and then it 00:21:40.589 --> 00:21:44.329 even got faster I just thought of it and it was 00:21:44.329 --> 00:21:47.309 like these darts of light and there were different 00:21:47.309 --> 00:21:50.230 colors darts of light and it was like this download 00:21:50.230 --> 00:21:54.509 and each piece of light was colors beyond anything 00:21:54.509 --> 00:21:58.349 I've known here, came into my being. And I had 00:21:58.349 --> 00:22:01.589 awareness, understanding, and it was bliss on 00:22:01.589 --> 00:22:05.369 top of bliss. It was ecstasy on top of ecstasy 00:22:05.369 --> 00:22:09.430 a million times. And I can still experience that 00:22:09.430 --> 00:22:13.069 today. If I go into the quiet, into the peace, 00:22:13.170 --> 00:22:15.769 that's what I attempt to share with others when 00:22:15.769 --> 00:22:20.029 I'm with them. And it's not so much what we share 00:22:20.029 --> 00:22:23.279 with our words. What I feel it is is more of 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:27.200 a vibrational presence that we bring and that's 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:30.299 what I hope people can feel more than the story 00:22:30.299 --> 00:22:33.700 that I'm telling is the feeling that they get 00:22:33.700 --> 00:22:36.299 and their remembering because like the book I 00:22:36.299 --> 00:22:39.119 just finished I wrote it in a way so people can 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:42.599 remember their own story, their own remembering 00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:46.029 of the divine presence within them. The essence 00:22:46.029 --> 00:22:49.809 of who we really are I don't believe for one 00:22:49.809 --> 00:22:52.349 minute that we have to have a near -death experience 00:22:52.349 --> 00:22:55.930 to remember who we are and That's what I hope 00:22:55.930 --> 00:22:58.910 to remind people when I tell my story, you know 00:22:58.910 --> 00:23:01.769 I'm quite private person and I've only recently 00:23:01.769 --> 00:23:05.089 started to share on these podcasts I have no 00:23:05.089 --> 00:23:09.430 desire for fame or fortune. I like my quiet I've 00:23:09.430 --> 00:23:11.410 had people for years asked me when I'm gonna 00:23:11.410 --> 00:23:14.309 write a book and so I finally wrote it So now 00:23:14.309 --> 00:23:17.329 I'm sharing it. And I wrote it in a way that 00:23:17.329 --> 00:23:21.650 I feel that people can benefit. You know, Suzanne 00:23:21.650 --> 00:23:23.630 Giesemann wrote the foreword to it and she said, 00:23:24.430 --> 00:23:27.069 it feels more like a transmission. And I agree, 00:23:27.269 --> 00:23:30.710 even though it's told in story form and my stories, 00:23:31.069 --> 00:23:34.450 there's a lot to chew on. And people are having 00:23:34.450 --> 00:23:38.369 beautiful experiences by engaging with this book. 00:23:38.569 --> 00:23:42.250 And so that's why I'm kind of coming in and sharing 00:23:42.250 --> 00:23:45.509 these stories now. What other kinds of questions 00:23:45.509 --> 00:23:49.869 were you thinking or asking of Jesus? You know, 00:23:49.869 --> 00:23:53.670 I don't talk much, Eric, about what I got from 00:23:53.670 --> 00:23:57.750 him because it's so controversial. And I don't 00:23:57.750 --> 00:24:01.009 feel like it's too helpful. But I understood 00:24:01.009 --> 00:24:05.630 basically from him, he was leading people into 00:24:05.630 --> 00:24:08.710 not following him as a church, you know, not 00:24:08.710 --> 00:24:11.589 building a church. He was inviting people to 00:24:11.589 --> 00:24:14.930 walk. not behind him, he was walking, inviting 00:24:14.930 --> 00:24:19.009 people to walk beside him, to follow a way of, 00:24:19.970 --> 00:24:22.890 we are all sons and daughters of God. There is 00:24:22.890 --> 00:24:26.549 not just one son of God, we are all that. And 00:24:26.549 --> 00:24:29.990 so there's a lot more to it and I don't usually 00:24:29.990 --> 00:24:31.910 want to go too much into it because I upset people 00:24:31.910 --> 00:24:34.329 when I say stuff like this, but I do believe 00:24:34.329 --> 00:24:37.670 it's a time when we claim that aspect of us because 00:24:37.670 --> 00:24:42.319 it's easy for us as humans to give up That as 00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:46.019 that responsibility of of knowing that we are 00:24:46.019 --> 00:24:50.339 love we are an aspect of the divine one I am 00:24:50.339 --> 00:24:54.799 That presence if we just remember so many of 00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:58.660 us want to to put that ability that responsibility 00:24:58.660 --> 00:25:03.920 on a guru or a teacher and it's like an ab abdication 00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:08.000 of your of your remembering You say it's out 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.220 there when it's truly the Kingdom God truly is 00:25:11.220 --> 00:25:13.960 within you. It's from the inside out. It's not 00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:17.680 going to come from the outside in. We have people 00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:21.160 that remind us, but the true core of His message 00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:24.400 was the Kingdom of God is within you. It only 00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:27.319 comes from here, and a teacher can only point 00:25:27.319 --> 00:25:30.519 in the direction. People often get, you know, 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:34.460 look in like, and Bruce Lee used to say, don't 00:25:34.460 --> 00:25:36.900 look at the finger, look at look at what the 00:25:36.900 --> 00:25:39.559 finger's pointing to, which is the moon. And 00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:41.880 so many of us get involved in looking at the 00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:45.180 teacher, you know, or looking at the guru, and 00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:47.339 it's like, no, look what they're pointing to. 00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:52.500 And they're pointing to what's within. I hope 00:25:52.500 --> 00:25:54.740 that didn't upset too many people by talking 00:25:54.740 --> 00:25:58.640 about that. It's not my problem. I want people 00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:03.640 to just tell their story as is unedited. Did 00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:05.839 you get to see your grandfather anymore, or was 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:09.079 that it? That was it, but it was complete. There 00:26:09.079 --> 00:26:13.799 was nothing unknown, unsaid. It was full, and 00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:17.019 it was just love, love, love. Any other beings 00:26:17.019 --> 00:26:21.660 besides those two? There were an infinite amount 00:26:21.660 --> 00:26:24.700 of beings, but I was not aware of any particular 00:26:24.700 --> 00:26:27.920 one. But it was like being in a river of souls 00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:31.299 going towards this light. I believe you mentioned, 00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:34.960 I think your words were that you looked to Jesus 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:37.980 in the eyes. Could you describe that a little 00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:41.119 bit more? It was like a dissolving into love. 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:44.759 It truly was an emptying and a filling at the 00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:48.240 same time. I mean, every aspect of your being 00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.059 is just filled with light and unconditional love. 00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:54.779 It's really hard to put into words because a 00:26:54.779 --> 00:26:58.710 word can't contain it. I just felt dissolving 00:26:58.710 --> 00:27:01.289 into love is the best. I guess, you know, you 00:27:01.289 --> 00:27:05.650 can, maybe one of the closest is orgasm, ten 00:27:05.650 --> 00:27:10.210 times over. Now you're into controversy. But 00:27:10.210 --> 00:27:13.710 in that moment, there's a forgetting of the self. 00:27:15.150 --> 00:27:20.190 There's a communion. There's a joining. You're 00:27:20.190 --> 00:27:26.109 no longer there. An explosion of union. And so, 00:27:26.329 --> 00:27:28.990 I'm sorry for using an example, but it's hard 00:27:28.990 --> 00:27:32.950 to explain in words. It really is. And it's that 00:27:32.950 --> 00:27:36.470 a million times more. Not even compared, but 00:27:36.470 --> 00:27:39.430 that's the closest I can come to. Promise that 00:27:39.430 --> 00:27:41.930 we would get back to the experience after your 00:27:41.930 --> 00:27:45.029 brother's passing. Would you like to talk about 00:27:45.029 --> 00:27:48.190 that? I want to say one more thing about when 00:27:48.190 --> 00:27:50.470 I got taken aside. One of the questions I asked 00:27:50.470 --> 00:27:53.789 was, you know, why do people suffer? And that's 00:27:53.789 --> 00:27:55.789 a big one. People want to know why, you know. 00:27:55.950 --> 00:28:00.210 It's the contrast. Our suffering offers an opportunity. 00:28:00.470 --> 00:28:04.490 It's a doorway to the depth of love that we wouldn't 00:28:04.490 --> 00:28:07.950 otherwise have the opportunity. These challenging 00:28:07.950 --> 00:28:12.670 experiences of our lives offer us a depth, an 00:28:12.670 --> 00:28:17.210 expansion of our love that we wouldn't have otherwise. 00:28:17.910 --> 00:28:20.349 So I hope that makes sense. But that's a question 00:28:20.349 --> 00:28:23.950 often, you know. That was my understanding among 00:28:23.950 --> 00:28:26.859 other things around that. Yeah, thank you for 00:28:26.859 --> 00:28:30.519 that. Okay, as promised, let's get back to your 00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:32.880 experience with your brother after his passing. 00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:36.220 Let's see. I wanted to see how I got back in 00:28:36.220 --> 00:28:41.460 my body though first. Oh, please do. I did explain 00:28:41.460 --> 00:28:44.839 this to my brother two months before. So I told 00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.599 him this whole story and he just listened deeply. 00:28:48.259 --> 00:28:50.440 And it was a beautiful experience. We went out 00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:52.640 to lunch and I was telling him about meeting 00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:56.079 my grandfather, meeting Jesus. So how I came 00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:00.740 back my body was really interesting Had a sound 00:29:00.740 --> 00:29:04.039 of a horse in my ear I could even feel the breath 00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:07.240 of the horse in my ear and it just it just brought 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:10.400 me back It was the most uncomfortable unpleasant 00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:13.140 experience of my life because the body weighed 00:29:13.140 --> 00:29:17.000 a million pounds it felt like just heavy and 00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:20.309 constricted and restricted and I just Oh, it 00:29:20.309 --> 00:29:22.430 was painful. And I thought, I never want to do 00:29:22.430 --> 00:29:26.490 that again. It was not fun being brought back 00:29:26.490 --> 00:29:29.130 into that body. It took me, I laid there for 00:29:29.130 --> 00:29:31.630 hours trying to, because I felt like I was in 00:29:31.630 --> 00:29:34.390 between and resisting coming back. And so it 00:29:34.390 --> 00:29:37.009 took me a long time. But I later found out that 00:29:37.009 --> 00:29:40.769 horse was over the hill. It was a long ways from 00:29:40.769 --> 00:29:43.390 me. So I don't know how in the world it got. 00:29:44.250 --> 00:29:47.529 somehow the Spirit used that sound of the horse 00:29:47.529 --> 00:29:51.609 to bring me back into a physical awareness, my 00:29:51.609 --> 00:29:55.230 attention, and back into a body. I told you earlier 00:29:55.230 --> 00:29:57.630 that I had feelings of my brother leaving for 00:29:57.630 --> 00:30:00.650 many months, and I didn't know how it was going 00:30:00.650 --> 00:30:03.630 to happen, but I felt that every time he turned 00:30:03.630 --> 00:30:05.529 out and walked away from me, I'd get this feeling 00:30:05.529 --> 00:30:07.849 of somebody punching me in the stomach, like 00:30:07.849 --> 00:30:09.950 he was going away and he wasn't coming back. 00:30:09.990 --> 00:30:12.769 And I told my mother, And she got nervous. She 00:30:12.769 --> 00:30:15.470 wanted him to get rid of the motorcycles. And 00:30:15.470 --> 00:30:16.809 she didn't know how it was going to happen. I 00:30:16.809 --> 00:30:19.109 didn't know how it was going to happen. Anyways, 00:30:19.349 --> 00:30:22.950 the day he passed, he was getting on his motorcycle. 00:30:23.769 --> 00:30:26.130 And he didn't have his helmet. And I said, where's 00:30:26.130 --> 00:30:29.730 your helmet? Like an older sister. He's five 00:30:29.730 --> 00:30:33.130 years younger. He said, OK. So he went back and 00:30:33.130 --> 00:30:35.289 got his helmet, put the visor up, and said, goodbye. 00:30:35.349 --> 00:30:38.269 I love you. And it was like. It took the air 00:30:38.269 --> 00:30:40.349 out of me. It felt like literally somebody was 00:30:40.349 --> 00:30:42.230 punching me in the stomach and I couldn't say 00:30:42.230 --> 00:30:43.910 anything. I couldn't say I love you. I couldn't 00:30:43.910 --> 00:30:46.410 say goodbye. I couldn't say nothing. I just stared 00:30:46.410 --> 00:30:50.369 at him and the rest that day I was in just Twilight 00:30:50.369 --> 00:30:53.589 Zone. He went to a friend's house. I had gotten 00:30:53.589 --> 00:30:55.829 in the car with my parents. I was in the back 00:30:55.829 --> 00:30:58.150 of the car looking out the window of my brother 00:30:58.150 --> 00:31:00.750 standing in the driveway with his friend. It 00:31:00.750 --> 00:31:03.910 was like watching a movie and I was very in a 00:31:03.910 --> 00:31:07.940 zone and dazed and I just watched him and I couldn't 00:31:07.940 --> 00:31:10.220 say anything to anybody because I couldn't articulate 00:31:10.220 --> 00:31:15.180 what was happening. I just knew that I wasn't 00:31:15.180 --> 00:31:18.559 going to see him again. That evening the phone 00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:22.220 rang and without hesitation I looked at my mom 00:31:22.220 --> 00:31:26.269 and I said, Ron's dead. I didn't even think, 00:31:26.349 --> 00:31:29.730 that's not the thing you say to people and it 00:31:29.730 --> 00:31:31.990 just rolled out of my mouth and I was like, why 00:31:31.990 --> 00:31:34.170 in the world would you say that? And everybody 00:31:34.170 --> 00:31:36.890 went into a panic and we ended up going to the 00:31:36.890 --> 00:31:40.170 hospital and they told us there. And it was a 00:31:40.170 --> 00:31:45.109 very bad day. So not long after that, like a 00:31:45.109 --> 00:31:49.309 few days, I was going to my home. I lived in 00:31:49.309 --> 00:31:52.990 a garden, in a little house in a garden on my 00:31:52.990 --> 00:31:57.640 aunt's property. And I saw my brother in full 00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:01.400 form standing on my porch. And as open as I am 00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:03.400 to all this, I looked at him and I said, I can't 00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:06.180 handle this right now. And he disappeared like 00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:11.400 that. That night, he came to me when I was in 00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:15.039 a more relaxed state. I was in a dream. It was 00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:17.579 more than a dream. He came to me and he was laughing. 00:32:18.460 --> 00:32:21.039 And he just said, well, you're right about one 00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:23.930 thing. Everything else, you're not even close. 00:32:24.069 --> 00:32:26.230 Can't put it into words. And he says, you're 00:32:26.230 --> 00:32:28.730 right about one thing. And I said, what? And 00:32:28.730 --> 00:32:30.890 he said, there's more to it than what appears 00:32:30.890 --> 00:32:34.390 to be. He just brought a sense of peace. So I 00:32:34.390 --> 00:32:38.670 often think about that and remember when I think 00:32:38.670 --> 00:32:41.009 I know something, I just remember there's always 00:32:41.009 --> 00:32:44.470 more to it than we can even imagine. And so we've 00:32:44.470 --> 00:32:47.809 just barely touched the surface about what it's 00:32:47.809 --> 00:32:50.589 all about. That was an amazing experience with 00:32:50.589 --> 00:32:54.839 my brother. After that, my depression went even 00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:58.759 deeper though and I went back to college. I was 00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:01.119 at university at the time studying theology and 00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:05.240 philosophy. I was in my little apartment alone 00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:09.359 and I contemplated ending my life. I had a bottle 00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:12.599 of pills and I was ready to just finish it. I 00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:15.240 thought, you know... What good is this knowing 00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:18.099 when you can't stop anything? You can't all this 00:33:18.099 --> 00:33:20.359 what if, what if this, and what if that? You 00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:22.539 know, could have said something, maybe it would 00:33:22.539 --> 00:33:26.420 have changed something. Well, I was on the floor 00:33:26.420 --> 00:33:30.940 ready to take this bottle of pills and all my 00:33:30.940 --> 00:33:34.460 life I've had an awareness of the presence of 00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:38.099 love around me. A very tangible feeling. I've 00:33:38.099 --> 00:33:41.039 never felt alone. Even though I had depression, 00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:46.000 I've never felt alone. I heard this voice say, 00:33:46.259 --> 00:33:51.119 I love you. And I said, leave me alone. And I 00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:54.400 said, leave me alone. And in an instant, I was 00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:59.380 in silence, darker and quieter. Was transported 00:33:59.380 --> 00:34:05.019 into a space that was pre -creation, a void. 00:34:05.420 --> 00:34:09.960 There was nothing, no thing. It was quiet. I 00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:13.340 had awareness of nothing. There are no words 00:34:13.340 --> 00:34:18.400 to describe this except that I was very aware 00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:24.539 of no thing, nothing. Silence. And I was instantly 00:34:24.539 --> 00:34:30.340 aware of how much I wanted to be back creating. 00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:35.019 We are creative beings. I love that aspect of 00:34:35.019 --> 00:34:38.940 being a divine being in this world. I intended 00:34:38.940 --> 00:34:41.840 to be back and as soon as I thought this is what 00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:45.219 I want, I was back. My attention was back on 00:34:45.219 --> 00:34:48.679 the floor, back in the room. I felt peace beyond 00:34:48.679 --> 00:34:51.860 peace and I've never ever experienced a depression 00:34:51.860 --> 00:34:56.659 again. That was when I was 23. I'm in my 60s 00:34:56.659 --> 00:34:59.820 now. You know, I have ups and downs like everybody 00:34:59.820 --> 00:35:03.079 but not the depression, the depths of that sadness 00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:06.800 and the depths of that depression. Never again. 00:35:07.150 --> 00:35:13.349 and I carry that peace with me as I work. You 00:35:13.349 --> 00:35:17.210 know, I did bodywork for over 30 years and when 00:35:17.210 --> 00:35:19.690 I was working with people I would often just 00:35:19.690 --> 00:35:24.630 tune into their breath and it became like a harmony 00:35:24.630 --> 00:35:28.250 harmonizing with their breath. It's very much 00:35:28.250 --> 00:35:33.079 like a resonance is met there. I believe that 00:35:33.079 --> 00:35:35.880 that presence is what we're here to share with 00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:38.639 people, is that presence of that unique face 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:42.139 of who you are, which is unique. We're all a 00:35:42.139 --> 00:35:45.780 face of the divine, an expression of God here. 00:35:46.420 --> 00:35:49.320 And we're not meant to copy anything. We're not 00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:52.639 meant to copy anyone. We're meant to be the original 00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:56.139 of who you were born to be. Our purpose, people 00:35:56.139 --> 00:35:58.619 often ask, what's my purpose in this life? Our 00:35:58.619 --> 00:36:02.409 purpose is to love. And the hardest challenges 00:36:02.409 --> 00:36:04.130 in our lives, you know, we're asked, you know, 00:36:04.190 --> 00:36:07.130 can I even love this? Can I even forgive this? 00:36:07.230 --> 00:36:09.929 Sometimes it's no, I can't. And sometimes we 00:36:09.929 --> 00:36:13.150 work ourselves into the yes, I can. And that's 00:36:13.150 --> 00:36:16.369 the process. You know, we learn to love from 00:36:16.369 --> 00:36:20.429 the inside out, not the outside in. People often 00:36:20.429 --> 00:36:23.690 said, why don't you teach like body work or why 00:36:23.690 --> 00:36:26.630 don't you teach mediumship? And it's like, it's 00:36:26.630 --> 00:36:29.329 not what I can teach. It's who you are. It's 00:36:29.329 --> 00:36:32.480 who you are. It's not. what you do. And so be 00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:35.380 that. And that's the simplest thing I can tell 00:36:35.380 --> 00:36:40.739 people is be yourself. Be you. That is the teaching. 00:36:41.059 --> 00:36:43.739 Be yourself. Be you. That doesn't mean that we're 00:36:43.739 --> 00:36:46.599 the character role we were born in. That means 00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:49.800 that there's an essence of you that is unique 00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:54.360 face of God. That presence of love that is unique 00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:57.639 in all the world. And that's what we're here 00:36:57.639 --> 00:37:01.420 to share with each other. And remember with each 00:37:01.420 --> 00:37:05.940 other Your book is called into love a journey 00:37:05.940 --> 00:37:08.739 of near death and surrendering into love. What 00:37:08.739 --> 00:37:11.920 do you mean by surrendering? Well, surrendering 00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:15.119 was actually the original title I was gonna call 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.639 it surrendering into love and that was gonna 00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:20.380 be it But I changed it because I was told right 00:37:20.380 --> 00:37:22.980 at the end of writing it that this would be a 00:37:22.980 --> 00:37:25.880 trilogy So that would be three books two more 00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:29.699 coming with this book but surrendering means 00:37:29.659 --> 00:37:32.480 It's not a giving up. You know, I always thought 00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:36.500 that surrender meant death. That if I surrendered, 00:37:36.500 --> 00:37:41.539 I would die. And then I realized through the 00:37:41.539 --> 00:37:44.219 adventures of life that surrender is a giving 00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:48.000 in. It's opening up. It's opening up to God or 00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:50.500 the light or whatever you want to call that which 00:37:50.500 --> 00:37:54.000 is unconditional love. That essence of who we 00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:58.519 are. Surrender means opening to that. versus 00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:01.659 being closed off, which we just too often are. 00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:06.139 Yeah. Okay, I think I understand. Before I let 00:38:06.139 --> 00:38:08.519 you go, and I think I know the answer to this, 00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:12.380 but how much fear of death do you have? Yeah, 00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:14.960 zero fear of death. You know, we're dying and 00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:18.300 we're being reborn every day, every moment. My 00:38:18.300 --> 00:38:20.780 body's not the same as it was yesterday. You 00:38:20.780 --> 00:38:23.119 know, it's gotten older. You know, I can't move 00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:26.719 like I used to as an Aikido teacher. I'm not 00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:29.400 the athlete that I once was. My body is different 00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:33.039 than when I was a little child. We're dying each 00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:38.239 moment and we're being reborn each moment. The 00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:41.739 movement, the passing of physical form is just 00:38:41.739 --> 00:38:46.360 another form of that. But there is only the eternal. 00:38:46.699 --> 00:38:49.760 When we pass from this physical form, it will 00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:53.579 be no different in a sense than We've always 00:38:53.579 --> 00:38:56.440 been dying and being reborn and we will continue 00:38:56.440 --> 00:38:59.420 that. We are eternal beings. It'll just feel 00:38:59.420 --> 00:39:03.159 blissful. It'll feel like coming home. It'll 00:39:03.159 --> 00:39:06.360 feel like awakening. So I have no fear of that 00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:09.920 whatsoever. I have had, I don't know if we have 00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:12.619 time, I can tell you another experience where 00:39:12.619 --> 00:39:15.800 I was actually faced with a physical death being 00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:19.880 taken down a dirt road by a man. I found amazing 00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:23.500 power in surrendering my life. At that point 00:39:23.500 --> 00:39:25.900 there was only one life to take and it was his. 00:39:26.380 --> 00:39:30.039 I was already gone. So I surrendered my life 00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:34.239 so completely that it changed the whole situation. 00:39:35.059 --> 00:39:37.920 So Tammy, just thank you for sharing all of that. 00:39:38.099 --> 00:39:41.500 That is deep stuff and I really appreciate it. 00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:44.769 I know we've all learned something from it. Well, 00:39:44.869 --> 00:39:48.110 I kept wanting to ask you again, try to describe 00:39:48.110 --> 00:39:50.289 that love that you can't put into words, but 00:39:50.289 --> 00:39:52.369 I'm not going to push you that hard on that. 00:39:52.809 --> 00:39:54.929 The fact that you can't describe it says everything, 00:39:54.969 --> 00:40:00.230 doesn't it? Yeah. Indescribable love. Yeah. A 00:40:00.230 --> 00:40:02.889 million and million times over what we've ever 00:40:02.889 --> 00:40:04.909 experienced here and the greatest love we've 00:40:04.909 --> 00:40:08.630 ever experienced. It's a re -experiencing of 00:40:08.630 --> 00:40:12.920 the essence, our true essence. Tammy Lee Anderson, 00:40:13.340 --> 00:40:15.179 thank you very much for being with me today. 00:40:15.940 --> 00:40:18.400 You're welcome. Thank you for inviting me to 00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:24.719 tell the story. Thanks again for listening and 00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:27.460 don't forget to send those Christmas cards. All 00:40:27.460 --> 00:40:29.980 the best to you and your family during this holiday 00:40:29.980 --> 00:40:33.880 season and throughout this life and the next.