Welcome welcome to round trip death everybody.
We're so happy to have Kimberly Braun with us
this morning Kimberly, how are you? I'm doing
great and I love your background. It's it's gorgeous
and mine's mine's a blank slate Well, it's my
office I have wooden walls and I have plants
and But I have to mention one thing the lava
lamp that you see here that I get a lot of comments
on by the way is is dying Tears for the lava
lamp. It takes about two hours to become fully
liquid like that The stuff inside over time,
I guess gets hard. So I'm glad you brought it
up because What I want to do is I'm gonna buy
a new one But I want everybody to comment on
what color they want to see because they now
come in red blue green All kinds of colors glitters.
Don't say glitter But I want comments. So if
everybody would comment about what color Eric's
next lava lamp should be, I can't wait to hear
what people come up with. I love it. Well, you're
giving them, you're giving them like a carte
blanche. Who knows what they might come up with.
You might get something psychedelic going there.
You can be first. What color do you want? I would
think like forest green. Okay. It's interesting,
you know, I see a lot that are, and I love purple
and all of those colors so much. But for me,
what's different is doing something really earthy,
so. Sort of like the color of your shirt today.
It is kind of like that, isn't it? Sounds perfect.
Okay, before we jump into your NDE, which I know
people are going to find fascinating, I want
our audience to get to know you a little bit.
If you would just take one minute. Who is Kimberly?
You know, I'm still discovering that myself.
That tells you a lot about who I am that I could
give that statement. I am a mystic adventurer.
My whole life has been lived with the veil very
thin. multidimensionally, from the standpoint
of experiencing what seems to be sourced or uncreated
and these varieties of forms and learning what
it means to be in a body, learning what it means
to have a heart and a mind. I have been somebody
that's really been passionate about that. So
my formal education, my experiential choices
have all been at the service of discovering these
eternal truths, living them and supporting others
in finding their path. And it takes many shapes
and forms. So that's that's most of integrity
about who I am. My life is very simple that way.
It's got one focus. that opens up a horizon of
adventure and opportunities. Well, I love that
you use the term veil because I personally believe
that the spiritual things that we often talk
about on this show are right around us. We just
have these blinders, this veil, whatever, that
right now in our physical form makes it hard
to see and experience these things. Would you
agree with that? Yes, and I think that in some
very mysterious way that is part of the will
of the uncreated of consciousness or awareness
or God is that somehow coming into form the joy
is this discovery of it all the discovery that
the veil is thin and It's some mysterious divine
play. So while it may yield a lot of suffering
for us all and confusion and wondering about
life, there's a divine purpose in that very reality
that you said. Okay. Well, I want to jump into
your NDE because some people are very impatient.
But we're also going to talk later about things
that happened to you early in life and things
that have happened to you since then, and what
we can all learn from these kinds of experiences.
So take us back. I know it was just a couple
of years ago when you were 19 years old. Things
were a little rough in your life. What was going
on? It's true. It's true. And I know we'll go
back to earlier than that, but I can't really
give the NDE without giving the setup that my
life has had a lot of mystical experiences all
my life. So when I entered a really difficult
period in my life, there was a way that I was
also held by what I believed at that time was
God, even in that darkness. When I was about
16, and that's a normal time in our personal
development to really be trying to discover who
we are and where we fit. And we're dependent
on our parents, but we're also gaining independence.
So I know it can be a challenging time for many
their teenage years. And in many ways, life was
really wonderful. I have wonderful parents. I
have a wonderful sister. At that time, I have
a brother now, but he came many years later.
We were also a deeply faith -filled family, which
was a joy for me. As I was coming into my own
and developing as a woman, I had this very strong
existential concern. I was very drawn to spirituality
and very drawn to that being what life was about.
And I also found within myself what I would call
a very passionate nature. I'm very enthusiastic
and curious about everything. So passion wasn't
just simply sex, and I know your hormones really
get going in your teens. Passion was about everything,
the passion to learn. the passion to self -realize,
the passion to be in a body, the passion to have
ideas, the passion to have connection. Like I
had a lot of fire. I'm an Aries, so I had a lot,
a lot of fire. And there was something within
me that was troubled that all that passion wasn't
holy. It hit a really deep place in me. Looking
back, Believe it was both individually and collectively
because I think in the Western psyche We still
have a strong puritanical bent Where our ideas
of holiness? Create a dualism about being in
the body So I was experiencing all of this and
not really knowing how to make my way through
it But I mean it hit me hard. I was having bad
dreams I would have these dreams that must have
been past lives or other dimensions, all sorts
of things that were very dark. And I was having
physical things like migraines because I was
so troubled by it all. I was just ill at ease.
I had low grade of anxiety. I didn't suffer real
anxiety. I work with people that suffer anxiety
and panic attacks. I was never hit with a real
issue there that was chronic. But I had a situational
anxiety around what it meant to be alive. And
I didn't know how to go forward. I felt completely
stuck. And I tried everything. I tried everything.
I tried. Being light -hearted around it and I
couldn't get away from it. It troubled me so
badly I tried getting involved in things and
it still would not Lighten the intensity with
which I felt held by this there felt to be something
Inherently like a low self -worth You know, I
think there were psychologically there were some
other things getting hit there and my personal
development but that was the issue that contained
these things I went on with a lot of anguish
around this privately. You wouldn't have known
it outwardly because I'm, I'm a outgoing gregarious,
not overly gregarious, but I'm, I am a strong
personality. And I was involved in service organizations
and had lots of friends and did things with my
family. And, you know, outwardly speaking, you
would have had no idea of my inner turmoil that
I was going through. No idea. I started getting
into the doors. I was very fascinated by the
poetry of Jim Morrison. And there was an interest
because it was on an edge. It was like a breaking
through. It's like, what's reality about? And
a lot of the music from that time period is like
that too, trying to pierce the veil. Yeah. Back
in the days when we actually listened to the
lyrics, they meant something. And the doors were
a perfect example of that. Oh my word is poetry
in motion, right? Poetry in motion. So I found
solace in a lot of that different music. I was
never adventurous enough to get into drugs and
I came from a very Midwest background. So I was
very, in some ways, very sheltered. not purposefully,
but just situationally. I went to a school that
was for gifted people, so it was very geeky and
small. And, you know, again, there wasn't a lot
of drinking and drugs and all of that. And so
I didn't find myself going down destructive paths
like that, which was fortunate because I think
I, while I could have broken through to a deeper
insight, I also could have gone down a route
that would not have had a good end. So I just
went through this turmoil. It was like two and
a half years and When it started to even reach
a point where there was something within me that
said no more Because I had experience being guided
all my life Anytime I had anything that troubled
me on the inside Grace would show up and show
me the way In my mind and in my heart and here
it was like being abandoned by God Because I
was left to my own feudal mechanisms to work
through this so Coming into the two -year mark
about I don't remember exactly I Began to reach
out for help Specifically for this so instead
of like doing things that I thought were healthy
that didn't help I began reaching out for help
and First I turned to a faith community that
I had joined In college, I was in my undergrad.
They had a very fundamentalist belief system.
It was so hurtful that I felt very shamed for
where I was. Instead of being prayed with and
understood and offered compassion, I was basically
told, you're sinning by thinking those thoughts.
You know, like, it was very unhelpful. And so
I didn't feel safe to turn to this community.
So I finally turned to a mental health clinic
at the university because I recognized that while
what was happening was a spiritual crisis, I
as a human being, as a person was struggling
with mental health around it. I was just so ill
at ease. I was assigned a counselor to be a therapist
and that counselor was a poor counselor. I went
out on a limb and I shared the vulnerable workings
that were going on inside of me and this counselor
and this was a big deal to share it and I'm sure
that your listeners, I'm sure you can all relate
that when you really open what seems scary to
share about your own process You don't want to
be told that you're being rejected for that reason.
This counselor basically was like, ah, get over
yourself. It was terrible. And that was a bit
like the last straw mentally because I took so
much courage to open it up and I had been worked,
I had been trying so hard. I mean, it brings
tears to my eyes looking back on it. I had tried
so hard to come through it. And I was a good
person, so I wasn't acting out in ways that were
hurtful to myself or anybody else. And when he
said that, it was the worst thing that could
have happened. And I gave up. Shortly after that,
I tried to take my life. The pain was too much.
It had been two and a half years. And I was young,
so I didn't have the skills. I didn't have the
capacity. I didn't have the tools. I didn't have
the support system. There were many things I
just simply didn't have that left me feeling
like there was no way out except for this one
choice. I didn't believe I was going to go to
hell. I didn't believe that I was committing
a sin by what I was doing. I just simply despaired
of life in this form, in this body. When I did
that, I was in the dorm at the college. Pretty
closely after that, I reached out after that
and I let a fellow student know. So they called
911, but I left my body after I remember there
was a flurry that happened in my dorm room. And
then after that, I left my body. And just like
most NDers, It's not possible to capture in words
the understanding and the experience that happens
when we are truly free from this 3D construct.
And what happened for me, which is not, it's
not completely unique. A lot of times the idea
of NDEs is the tunnel, the white light, the meeting
loved ones. What happened for me was nothing
like that. What was surprising, Eric, when I
look back on it, is oftentimes people have NDEs
that are influenced by their enculturation. So
the fact that I was so Christian and I loved
Jesus and I loved Mary and the fact that I actually
didn't see anybody was so counter... cultural
to the NDE experience. Most of the time the experience
is a segue from your understanding in the human
body is how you kind of get initiated into this
out -of -body experience and where the messages
come. But what happened for me was I awakened
as and within the luminous void. existence. It
was completely grounded and yet had no center
at all. And you could say it was dark, but the
dark was illuminated, not to the physical eye,
not like I was looking at something as me. It
was like being particles of luminosity. And I
was it, in a very easeful way, I did not lose
a sense of me as an individual. But I was simultaneously
not an individual. I was as well the whole of
consciousness. So I was both of those things.
At the same time, the coming home, the freedom,
the freedom, that was the biggest quality I would
say. You could say the luminous quality was love
itself. But the quality of experience was utter
freedom. All things were possible. Anything was
possible. All was potential and all was actualizing.
And as I was it, I encountered the eternal source,
it falls short to say within and without, but
I don't have a context for it, with an intimacy
of all aspects of what My journey was up to that
point, all aspects being celebrated and held
and known. And in reflecting on it, because this
wasn't my reflection in it, but reflecting on
it, there was an unconditioned acceptance that
was in the form of respect. tenderness and love.
It wasn't sympathy for the hardship I had been
going through. It wasn't affirmation for my life
journey. There weren't these causal things happening,
but there was this incredible recognition. If
you think of somebody, if you're listening to
this and maybe you've had an experience like
this, when you've had an isolated moment, when
you felt seen with the most tender respect and
love, by something or someone else. It was that
without any conditions around it. I found myself
to be existence itself. And in that my dilemma
completely was washed away because the dilemma
I had was an erroneous thought that couldn't
coexist in the purity of intelligence. in which
I was. And I didn't even need to bring it into
my experience. Again, there wasn't this linear
time when I was out of body. It wasn't like I
suffered so much and I cried, which would have
been wonderful, but that wasn't what happened.
What happened was anything that was less than
or not resonant with the purity of the intelligence
that I was in didn't exist anymore. It was simply
gone. And so I was abiding in this, it was like
an oasis of being. And this went on, I don't
know how long, I have no idea because I left
my body when I was in the dorm room. And at a
certain point, there did become an exchange.
And an exchange I could say that was both within
me and outside of me that was between me and
the eternal source. And I was given a choice.
Do you want to go back? And it was so empowering
because there was no wrong answer. There was
no sense of, you need to go back because you
have a service and a mission. You need to go
back to finish your journey and work things out.
There was no consequence that was like a karma
around it. There was nothing. It was just the
freedom of that choice. And what happened as
that came about was there was this self -worth
that just put me in touch with on a soul level,
on the individual Kimberly soul level. Let me
be truthfully in touch with what did I really
want? Like from a place of joy and simplicity,
what did I actually want? And in that rawness,
I encountered that I wanted to return and not
for something I didn't have this thought like,
I want to return and finish my journey, or I
want to return and share this love, or there
was nothing like that. It was such simplicity.
There was just the raw desire that didn't need
a reason other than love to want to return. And
that seems so counterintuitive. Someone who has
just tried to take their life chooses to go back.
Right? So my guess is and you you correct me
if I'm wrong All of that love and everything
that you felt was doing a lot of healing to you
emotionally Yes, it it had What I had been washed
when I left my body the very encounter of truth
on that level Unknowingly to me because it wasn't
in my thought process. I was simply washed psychologically
and emotionally Our suffering comes from error
in thought that oftentimes comes from responses
to trauma. That trauma could be individual or
collective. And in that muddiness in our being,
we work things out. And there was something about
being jettisoned into the embrace of existence
that washed me of those. things that washed me
not just of the erroneous thought of the issue
of passion and holiness and spirituality, but
whatever the conditioning was, whatever the trauma
was around these things, it washed me of the
impelling force that would take me to those places
of despair. I mean, it was gone. It was just
gone. I agree with you. It would be so counterintuitive
to find that I actually wanted to come back.
that that was actually the root of my joy and
desire. And so when that happened, then I came
back into my body. I was in my body and I was
actually in the ICU. I had to have been out of
my body for at least a half hour. I don't know
how fast an ambulance would drive from the dorm
to a hospital. Well and to the dorm and getting
you on the gurney and all that kind of stuff.
It all takes a while. Let me throw some questions
at you before we move on. And I can't wait to
hear the next chapter. Some of the things that
you talked about are hard for some of us with
very literal brains, a little bit hard to understand
such as You said something about being individual
but not individual and the dark but illuminated.
Help me understand how that works. You know,
that's a brilliant question. And I think it takes
penetrating that paradox. Those are both paradoxes.
It takes penetrating it to gain the insight.
that there can be a coexistence in these ways.
And what I would say with it is, if you look,
this doesn't answer directly, but I'll try to
answer directly in a moment. If you look at the
writings of mystics of all eras, if you look
at the deep mystical theology of traditions,
you will find in all of those writings, there
are these paradoxical statements that take place.
Like John of the cross. I I ended up being Carmelite
He was who's a Carmelite one of his breakthrough
insights that he lived for the rest of his life
was the soul center is God Well to a linear thought
process that makes no sense How could a soul
that has a is a pattern of an individual actually
be God that has no boundaries? You're going to
find these kinds of paradoxes in everything that
comes close to a description of reality. I was
given the gift to, in a very mysterious way,
to go to that on a very essence level, a very
foundational level. When I was out of body, and
I can't describe the texture of it because I
was aware I was a Kimberly, but it was... think
about if you look out on the starry sky and you
experienced yourself as the sky as All the particles
as once you have to use your imagination on that
and it's even that's limited because it's only
the sky but if you took the skies that opportunity
and you tried to feel into being the sky and
you were both the stars and the Black matter
and the gray matter the white matter all of those
things all at once You would find that you're
existing as a whole, but then you're also existing
as the individual stars and particles at the
same time. That was a bit of what it was like,
except there were literally no boundaries at
all. There was no horizon. There was no globe
looking. There was no, it was all -ness without
any, and it's interesting because if I look at
it, even now having been out of body, You know
what? I would never want to be an astronaut.
And you would think I'd want to go into space.
Like after this, you'd think I would have no
fears about being in a spaceship. And I'm like
the thought of being cloistered into a spaceship.
So that's part of the mystery of the experience,
too, is it did not yield for me that boundlessness
in my body. I still like having my feet on the
ground. You could also look at it this way. Think
about when you've had a moment of darkness in
your own life, a loss, a betrayal, a sense of
trauma that has yielded a painful thought or
reflection. And it's taken you into a dark place.
And then you've been given a grace to just be
there with yourself in that place. Oftentimes
when we experience the grace of that kind of
acceptance where we just are and we're not trying
to change ourselves, there's a certain subtle
ease that comes about, a relaxation. And that
relaxation and that ease is a certain luminous
quality because it's providing a place that is
Love, safe, held, and that also could speak to
it. When we take these dark moments and we have
been given the grace to be there, there's something
that the being there itself has a certain healing
property to it alone. Or think about if a friend
or a professional has really offered you true
listening. And you may not be 100 % understood,
because maybe they haven't gone through your
experience, but you feel held, wordlessly held.
There's something that's light -filled about
that. And there's something that, in that light,
it penetrates whatever is dark that you're sharing
or revealing about yourself. I would say those
are 3D examples of where you have Luminous darkness
or a luminous void can feel very empty to be
disconnected from ourselves and have darkness.
Yeah, so That speaks to it a little bit. That's
a really good try I appreciate it and it still
is gonna take me a while to totally Grasp it,
but there are times in life when you can feel
For example, I love the ocean and there are times
where when you're in the ocean And it's warm
and sunny and beautiful. You feel a part of it,
right? It's not like you and then there's the
ocean. You feel like you are a part of it. Maybe
that's a little tiny glimpse as to what you were
feeling. That's a great example. Yeah. All right.
Thank you for that. So how was your life different
afterwards? I mean, I want a little bit of nitty
gritty here. Like you were in the hospital for
how long? And then what was your attitude like
when you went back to the dorm? I didn't. I flew
home. I was living in Santa Cruz and I flew home
to Florida. I was crystal clear when I came back
into body. I had this very dramatic blessing
that happened in that. There was one of my guides
who's formless came into form as a nurse. When
I came back into my body. There was a nurse standing
beside me and It was really one of my guides.
I thought it was a nurse at the time She held
me as I came back into my body and I wept I Just
wept I don't even know how long I wept for but
I wept and she held me and Then at a certain
point I went to sleep I was never able to find
and I could tell this this nurse was very lit
up like it was very radiant Being but it informed
because she was able to physically hold me I
was never able to find that nurse which confirmed
my sense that it was one of my guides So I was
given a great grace in that transitioning back
into the body. I didn't have to feel alone Because
as individuals oftentimes in these moments we
can feel really alone. I was clear as day that
I wanted to understand myself better and I told
the next day, of course, given the fact that
I tried to take my life, they needed, you know,
they they in the hospital, they went to meet
with me. Like, am I still suicidal? What is my
stability? You know, and all of that. So I immediately
I only remember having one meeting, but there
could have been more than one meeting. I said
clearly, I said, I know I meant to fly home.
And I know I am meant to go into therapy. I know
I'm meant to understand the layers of this more
for myself and for my life. I knew I was completely
washed of the trauma. There was nothing suicidal
in me that existed. So I wasn't worried. I didn't
feel unstable. But I did know that I had experienced
a level of freedom that I wanted to know what
even took me down that path. On other levels
not just the spiritual level, you know on the
emotional level. What was the trauma that was
unconsciously there? psychologically, what's
my makeup as a human being and Simultaneously
my mystical experiences which were very strong
all my life. I've there's so many stories in
my first book I tell a lot of the stories of
these Very powerful mystical experiences that
started when I was five And what's beautiful
about this reality is I think it's so relatable.
People can look at my mystical experiences and
assume that I'm walking on a golden path and
that nothing could touch me or trouble me. And
then you encounter this dark night period that
I went through. And it reminds us that being
human is a very complex thing. And so it's very
relatable to see that just because we have deep
mystical experiences doesn't mean we're 100 %
whole that we don't have growth to do and healing
to do. My mystical experiences went off the chart.
My spirituality over these, I'm close to 60 now,
so it's been a lot of years. My spiritual is
very different now, but back then I began experiencing
being pursued by God. There was a personal God
like a lover That I couldn't get away from it
would fire up my whole body It would lead me
into long periods of contemplation Prayer was
an active part of course but it was even different
than prayer was just being assumed into deep
states of presence and quiet and bliss I mean,
it went off the charts and I was having visions
and miraculous phenomena. I went through five
years of being like Eckhart Tolle on the park
bench. So Eckhart Tolle talks about when he suffered
severe depression and then he was given the capacity
to really let go. And he said, now I'm paraphrasing,
I may get it a little wrong, but the point is
that he felt like he was sucked into a vortex,
moving at really fast speeds into the unknown.
And in that, he was released of this severe,
debilitating depression. And after that, he says
it was like sitting on a park bench because the
world was so magnificent. You were just experiencing
so much connectivity to everything in the world
and such sweetness that you're just not grounded.
That's my five years after all of that were a
bit like that, but they were filled with synchronicity
as well. So I went back to Florida and I went
through, I put myself through intense period
of therapy while simultaneously having these
very deep mystical experiences. And I learned
so much about myself, about human development.
I grew even more in the depth of intimacy with
me as a human being. Then I ended up moving back
to Santa Cruz. And then I had this synchronicity
set up where I started working with the homeless.
And I happened to find myself magnetized into
a group of about five to 10 people that were
all having really life changing times in their
spiritual journey. And we would gather for long
periods of silent abiding and prayer. And so
it was very powerful. It's like I call it the
honeymoon period between me and the divine. So,
I mean, things just catapulted. You mentioned
how you liked the word that the veil was thin.
It was almost like there was no veil. I would
be helping an older person because I was getting
into home health care because I love helping
people. They would shape shift into Christ or
into angels or into saints. By location happened.
Lots of miracles, lots of fast healing for myself
or others, being taken up where I would have
visions. All these things really were my daily
bread. And it was very grounded because it wasn't
just during my time of solitude. It was with
everybody as well. So that eventually led me
to join a monastery because it was just the natural
next step. I was already living a monastic life
and I was so on fire with love that I just had
to be with the beloved. It was that simple. I
just had to. All right. Before we wrap up, you've
written how many books now? Three books. Three
books? What's the most recent one? Miracles in
the Naked Light. Oh, I like the title. Okay.
I've got to give that one a try. For somebody
out there today who may be struggling, because
there's a lot of tough things in life, and I'm
not sure the date that this episode is going
to come out, but just last week we had some really
traumatic things happen in this country and really
right down the road from where I live. Give us
a message of hope. Based on the things that you've
learned and you've come to be, why should people
have hope in the future not only here while they're
in body but afterwards? I've experienced that
what is true is that we are in form impelled
by an uncreated source that delights in us. and
that the fulfillment of the journey of the formless
becoming form, that the fulfillment of the journey
has only one end, and that end is union in the
fullness of this eternal love and light. And
in that alone, love casts out fear. In that alone
comes the insight on how to navigate the uncertainties,
the complexities, and the difficulties of this
life. In that alone, we find the way to open
up that we can embody that love. And I know this
is mysterious, and it can feel unreal. It can
feel like a concept if you're going through something
that is so troubling. But... If you can open
up to the unknown, to the possibility that it's
true, you give some space to experience it. And
it's in the space of experiencing it that you
can discover the truth that sets you free. I
believe there's only one end, and that end is
the happy ending that is beyond our wildest imagining.
And you had mentioned earlier two things. That
really stuck out to me one was the word freedom
and we've talked quite a bit about that. The
other was coming home Would you expound on that
just a little bit? Yes So in my own experience
that we inform we in these bodies and with these
souls and with this journey we're taking That
it's a bit like the Wizard of Oz We're on the
path to awakening that coming home is awakening
to self and that our very center is that self
capital S. So the body is the very way that we
are journeying to the lesson of coming home to
source and self. And again, this is an experiential,
it's a very intimate and tender journey and you
deserve the respect and community and the companionship
and the support. To make that journey with vulnerability
and trust Thank you, Kimberly. I wasn't able
to make it to ions this year, but I'll see you
there next year, right? I Will look forward to
seeing you there next year And and if you want
to connect with me before my website Kimberly
Braun calm has everything online community videos
that are free, other resources, courses. It's
a great way to connect. So Eric, if you're inclined
or if you're listening, drop me an email or join
my newsletter and let's stay connected. Well,
stick that link in the show notes. Thanks again,
Kimberly. Thank you. Blessings. Thanks again
for listening and sharing this podcast. Don't
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next.