WEBVTT 00:00:03.749 --> 00:00:06.750 From the time that they pronounced me dead was 00:00:06.750 --> 00:00:10.210 a good 45 minutes. They cut my clothes and then 00:00:10.210 --> 00:00:13.130 they paddled. My heart, my heart had stopped 00:00:13.130 --> 00:00:16.129 and I could see people screaming and crying but 00:00:16.129 --> 00:00:18.589 I didn't realize that was actually my physical 00:00:18.589 --> 00:00:22.010 body because I was somewhere else. The only thing 00:00:22.010 --> 00:00:25.370 that I could feel if you could imagine absolute 00:00:25.370 --> 00:00:28.510 love and peace, there wasn't anything else to 00:00:28.510 --> 00:00:31.440 be felt. I was greeted by people I had known 00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:34.799 in the past. I'm back home again. Incredibly 00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:40.579 safe and felt at home. Welcome, welcome to Round 00:00:40.579 --> 00:00:43.840 Trip Death, everybody. I'm so grateful and happy 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:47.000 that everything is finally working technology 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:49.859 wise. I've got Deborah Haney with me here. Deb, 00:00:49.899 --> 00:00:53.380 how are you? Hi, I'm good. After all the shenanigans 00:00:53.380 --> 00:00:56.979 of getting this going. If listeners only knew 00:00:56.979 --> 00:00:59.899 what we have been through for the last 45 minutes, 00:01:00.420 --> 00:01:03.619 trying to make technology work, but it's working 00:01:03.619 --> 00:01:06.200 and that's all that matters. So anyway, welcome 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:10.040 to the show. Thank you. Sorry for the rough beginning. 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:13.719 No worries. Learn something new every time you 00:01:13.719 --> 00:01:16.519 do that. Hey, I don't know if I warned you, but 00:01:16.519 --> 00:01:18.980 before we jump into your near death experience 00:01:18.980 --> 00:01:21.780 and all the other wonderful things that we're 00:01:21.780 --> 00:01:23.829 going to learn from you. Would you mind taking 00:01:23.829 --> 00:01:26.209 just one minute and letting our listeners get 00:01:26.209 --> 00:01:29.250 to know you so they know who Deb is? Just tell 00:01:29.250 --> 00:01:31.489 us a little bit about who you are. I guess I'll 00:01:31.489 --> 00:01:33.969 start with this. I'm a first -generation American. 00:01:34.390 --> 00:01:37.890 My parents were immigrants from Germany. My mom 00:01:37.890 --> 00:01:42.209 is gypsy. My dad is German. And in my mom's family, 00:01:42.530 --> 00:01:45.109 some of these spiritual things have been passed 00:01:45.109 --> 00:01:49.030 down from generation to generation. I have three 00:01:49.030 --> 00:01:53.909 grandchildren and four grandchildren. I am a, 00:01:53.909 --> 00:01:56.450 I guess I'm a psychotherapist, but I'm more of 00:01:56.450 --> 00:02:00.209 a spiritual psychotherapist. So I've worked much 00:02:00.209 --> 00:02:03.310 more in the spiritual realms. Gotcha. Thank you 00:02:03.310 --> 00:02:06.209 for that. Okay. I don't want to waste any more 00:02:06.209 --> 00:02:08.909 time after all this. I want to jump straight 00:02:08.909 --> 00:02:11.870 into it. We're going to go back to when you were 00:02:11.870 --> 00:02:17.409 only 26 years old. Yeah. And eight months pregnant, 00:02:17.909 --> 00:02:19.990 lead up to the accident. Tell me what was going 00:02:19.990 --> 00:02:23.860 on this day. So I had been working that day I 00:02:23.860 --> 00:02:27.800 had driven lived in actually in Illinois so I 00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:31.460 had been driving to a meeting and on my way back 00:02:31.460 --> 00:02:36.360 I was on the highway and There was a red truck 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:40.520 that crossed across the highway To 15 year old 00:02:40.520 --> 00:02:43.979 boys not to their fault at all. We all make mistakes 00:02:43.979 --> 00:02:47.280 Took their truck from the ranch, but really didn't 00:02:47.280 --> 00:02:50.930 know how to drive And so came across the road. 00:02:51.069 --> 00:02:54.430 It was a head -on collision. I remember bits 00:02:54.430 --> 00:02:58.349 and pieces of it, but basically my car was accordioned. 00:02:58.349 --> 00:03:02.370 So I took the jaws of life and I was in a massive 00:03:02.370 --> 00:03:07.110 accident. Yeah. Wow. Sorry. I don't know where 00:03:07.110 --> 00:03:09.669 to jump into this, but you were eight months 00:03:09.669 --> 00:03:14.680 pregnant. So any accident is really bad. What 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:17.639 kind of injuries did you have? Were you conscious? 00:03:18.219 --> 00:03:21.759 What happened at the hospital? So it already 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:24.860 started actually at the scene and I remember 00:03:24.860 --> 00:03:28.740 I remember just there were miracles like there 00:03:28.740 --> 00:03:32.639 were small miracles. One was there was a paramedic 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:34.900 who was on his way to work who was actually behind 00:03:34.900 --> 00:03:39.039 me which expedited the ambulance getting there 00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:41.639 except they still had to cut me out of the car. 00:03:42.390 --> 00:03:45.650 And there was a French woman who was out in her 00:03:45.650 --> 00:03:47.789 land who happened to be not that far away. And 00:03:47.789 --> 00:03:51.210 I just remember screaming and saying, I'm going 00:03:51.210 --> 00:03:53.449 to have this baby because I was out of my mind, 00:03:53.449 --> 00:03:55.889 to be quite honest. And then I sort of passed 00:03:55.889 --> 00:03:59.550 out. The next thing that I remember is the ambulance 00:03:59.550 --> 00:04:02.469 was there and I was in the ambulance. I remember 00:04:02.469 --> 00:04:05.490 hearing them say, as they were calling into the 00:04:05.490 --> 00:04:08.949 hospital, we don't know what to give her. We're 00:04:08.949 --> 00:04:12.810 losing her. And that's all I remember. Right. 00:04:13.349 --> 00:04:16.970 Before I went to the beyond. Let's talk about 00:04:16.970 --> 00:04:21.410 the went. What was the process like? Do you remember 00:04:21.410 --> 00:04:23.990 actually leaving your body or something like 00:04:23.990 --> 00:04:26.750 that? A lot of people look down on their body. 00:04:26.750 --> 00:04:29.490 Tell me how it worked for you. When I left my 00:04:29.490 --> 00:04:33.730 body, it was more I didn't look back. That would 00:04:33.730 --> 00:04:37.350 be so me. I didn't look down at my body. I looked 00:04:37.350 --> 00:04:41.209 the other way. And I just remember being pulled. 00:04:42.230 --> 00:04:45.269 Pulled into like some people will say it's a 00:04:45.269 --> 00:04:47.870 tunnel. There isn't really a word for it. You're 00:04:47.870 --> 00:04:49.790 pulled into a portal that's probably what I would 00:04:49.790 --> 00:04:54.449 say pulled into a portal and The next thing that 00:04:54.449 --> 00:04:57.829 I knew I was in Stan Groff would call the void 00:04:57.829 --> 00:05:01.649 So Stan Groff would say like we experience God 00:05:01.649 --> 00:05:04.910 in one of two ways either People going into the 00:05:04.910 --> 00:05:07.430 light or people going into something called the 00:05:07.430 --> 00:05:09.269 void where there's nothing but everything but 00:05:09.269 --> 00:05:12.670 it's dark And that's where I was in that space. 00:05:13.810 --> 00:05:17.910 And I should also say, as I was going into that, 00:05:18.149 --> 00:05:22.209 I also heard what I'm guessing was an angelic 00:05:22.209 --> 00:05:24.490 voice saying, don't worry, it's all gonna be 00:05:24.490 --> 00:05:28.810 okay, whatever that means. So when I got to this... 00:05:29.069 --> 00:05:32.250 void, this place. There were voices that were 00:05:32.250 --> 00:05:35.250 talking to me, very gentle. And I think what 00:05:35.250 --> 00:05:38.029 I remember most that will never ever leave me 00:05:38.029 --> 00:05:43.050 is this sense of peace that passes all understanding. 00:05:43.569 --> 00:05:46.569 There's absolutely no negative emotions, just 00:05:46.569 --> 00:05:49.970 pure love and pure peace to the point that I 00:05:49.970 --> 00:05:53.889 honestly did not even remember who I was. So 00:05:53.889 --> 00:05:58.740 these beings were saying welcome back we're so 00:05:58.740 --> 00:06:02.339 happy you're home isn't it beautiful here and 00:06:02.339 --> 00:06:04.920 isn't it wonderful here and all of those things 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:09.439 and then they said the rocketing thing which 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:14.560 was and you know you have a baby and I said I 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:17.240 have no idea what you're talking about what are 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:19.939 you talking about and they're saying well you're 00:06:19.939 --> 00:06:24.139 eight months pregnant if you choose to stay your 00:06:24.139 --> 00:06:27.279 baby, they will take your baby. Hopefully your 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:31.459 baby will survive, will be raised then by your 00:06:31.459 --> 00:06:34.180 husband and whoever who knows down the road. 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:36.180 So they were sort of like letting me know what 00:06:36.180 --> 00:06:38.920 the outcome was going to be. And they said, but 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:42.240 you can go back if you want to. And it was, it 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:45.480 was like, it truly was in that moment, sort of 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:48.939 this, I don't know what to do until like, somehow 00:06:48.939 --> 00:06:52.339 my wits came about me and I thought, I can't 00:06:52.339 --> 00:06:55.399 leave my baby for someone else to raise my baby. 00:06:56.319 --> 00:07:00.120 And as soon as I thought that, that's when the 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:04.420 spiral back down happened. The thing that I remember 00:07:04.420 --> 00:07:08.300 most about coming back is so harsh. Going from 00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:12.079 pure bliss to going to pure hell again, because 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:15.220 I was in so much pain and you hit that gurney 00:07:15.220 --> 00:07:17.439 and I hear the paramedics say, okay, we've got 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:21.069 her back now. and going, Oh my God, what decision 00:07:21.069 --> 00:07:25.009 did I just make? Okay. All right. Let's pick 00:07:25.009 --> 00:07:27.810 some of this apart. This is great. There's a 00:07:27.810 --> 00:07:30.850 couple things that I don't get. And so I, and 00:07:30.850 --> 00:07:33.490 this is not skepticism. This is you try to help 00:07:33.490 --> 00:07:36.730 me fill in some blanks. Okay. And one of them 00:07:36.730 --> 00:07:39.610 is you don't see anything. You said it was dark, 00:07:39.810 --> 00:07:42.110 but a being that talked to you said, isn't it 00:07:42.110 --> 00:07:45.389 beautiful here? How does that work? It's a great 00:07:45.389 --> 00:07:50.529 question. So it's dark But these beings have 00:07:50.529 --> 00:07:57.529 a hue to them so they have a hue of Light just 00:07:57.529 --> 00:08:00.470 like not like bright as a star. Does that make 00:08:00.470 --> 00:08:04.389 sense? Yeah, like beauty doesn't always mean 00:08:04.389 --> 00:08:08.290 it's visual beauty is I know a knowingness there 00:08:08.290 --> 00:08:12.990 it is a knowingness of where you are a sense 00:08:12.990 --> 00:08:16.779 of like what it feels like And I think even what 00:08:16.779 --> 00:08:18.600 it looks like, because now that you're saying 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:22.100 that, I really do picture it. It is like being 00:08:22.100 --> 00:08:25.620 inside of this womb, but much greater than that. 00:08:26.019 --> 00:08:29.500 And everything is there, but nothing is there. 00:08:29.980 --> 00:08:31.899 I don't understand what that means. I know, it's 00:08:31.899 --> 00:08:35.240 so confusing. I've had other people tell me, 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:40.419 try to explain the void before. And so with the 00:08:40.419 --> 00:08:42.759 little bit of frame of reference that I have, 00:08:43.100 --> 00:08:46.200 Maybe you can help fill in some of my blanks, 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:50.139 because lots of people say everything is there 00:08:50.139 --> 00:08:54.080 and they feel connected to everything and everyone. 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:58.720 And I think I understand that. What I don't understand 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:02.899 is everything and nothing. Because you can't 00:09:02.899 --> 00:09:07.779 see it. Yeah. So the nothing, so we think of 00:09:07.779 --> 00:09:11.179 energy, we can't see energy, but we feel energy. 00:09:11.450 --> 00:09:15.250 Think of if we were, this is a really bad example, 00:09:15.350 --> 00:09:19.409 but think of if we were in a MRI machine with 00:09:19.409 --> 00:09:22.210 our eyes closed, we would know we were inside 00:09:22.210 --> 00:09:24.690 of something and sort of what that felt like 00:09:24.690 --> 00:09:27.649 and possibly what it looked like just by feeling 00:09:27.649 --> 00:09:31.970 its dimensions and things like that. But magnify 00:09:31.970 --> 00:09:36.970 that times a thousand. Okay. And so in this space, 00:09:37.269 --> 00:09:39.730 maybe we could even say, let's think of this 00:09:39.730 --> 00:09:42.960 as like a womb. but it's not as small as a womb. 00:09:44.019 --> 00:09:46.360 So everything exists within there, everything 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:51.899 we would ever need, every connection to our own 00:09:51.899 --> 00:09:56.220 DNA, our parents' DNA, to beings that hang around 00:09:56.220 --> 00:09:59.720 us, to everything. And yet we're experiencing 00:09:59.720 --> 00:10:04.220 it in this whole different way. In fact, in the 00:10:04.220 --> 00:10:07.620 womb, in a way, there's the present, there's 00:10:07.620 --> 00:10:11.419 also the future, because you're developing into 00:10:11.419 --> 00:10:13.960 something. So that kind of makes sense to me. 00:10:14.120 --> 00:10:16.899 And even the past, right? Because our parents 00:10:16.899 --> 00:10:19.899 have DNA. We believe in past lives, which I do. 00:10:19.980 --> 00:10:23.840 We have our own soul's history, all of that. 00:10:24.220 --> 00:10:28.159 Okay. What else can you remember from this? You 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:31.519 talked about the peace, right? Did you call it 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:33.899 overwhelming peace or overwhelming love? Remind 00:10:33.899 --> 00:10:37.759 me. Both. Overwhelming peace, overwhelming love. 00:10:38.139 --> 00:10:40.740 If I could put a word to it, I would put these 00:10:40.740 --> 00:10:44.940 two phrases. All that matters is love and everything 00:10:44.940 --> 00:10:47.620 that we need is right here. Sounds like a Beatles 00:10:47.620 --> 00:10:53.120 song. I like it. And in that space, this welcoming 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:57.559 feeling of sort of like, how did I forget this 00:10:57.559 --> 00:11:00.759 exists? Cause we've been here many times before. 00:11:01.259 --> 00:11:03.440 How did, how can, how do we keep forgetting that 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:07.940 that exists? And yet we incarnate and then Come 00:11:07.940 --> 00:11:11.799 back to that. It's a home if you will. It's the 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:15.259 ultimate home. Yeah. So I guess what I want to 00:11:15.259 --> 00:11:19.539 come back to is just finish explaining if there's 00:11:19.539 --> 00:11:22.340 more to explain and then I want to talk about 00:11:22.340 --> 00:11:25.039 physically what was going on with you and baby. 00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:29.320 So coming to this place. And I hesitate to even 00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:32.559 put a word to it, but for people who understand 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:35.740 void versus the other, they're all the same thing. 00:11:35.940 --> 00:11:37.940 It's just a different experience. I think of 00:11:37.940 --> 00:11:43.039 the same thing. And going to that place is exactly 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:46.340 like you said, like going to home that I think 00:11:46.340 --> 00:11:49.220 that I actually, cause when I've been with people 00:11:49.220 --> 00:11:51.700 who die, they say they want to go home, but they 00:11:51.700 --> 00:11:53.980 don't mean their house. They want to go home 00:11:53.980 --> 00:11:58.000 and This is the ultimate home. It is the place 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:03.139 where everything is. And yet in our earth dimension, 00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:07.019 nothing is because it's not something we experience 00:12:07.019 --> 00:12:10.379 on an everyday level here on this planet in this 00:12:10.379 --> 00:12:13.080 dimension. Here's another way to describe it. 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:17.259 It's as if I had access to anything I would want. 00:12:17.659 --> 00:12:22.259 When one of the beings said to me, Well, you 00:12:22.259 --> 00:12:25.679 have a baby I I knew I could keep asking and 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:28.740 I knew that I wouldn't be forced to do anything 00:12:28.740 --> 00:12:32.139 I knew that I could ask anything I wanted I knew 00:12:32.139 --> 00:12:35.159 that I could stay as long as I wanted that it 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:38.720 was this very soulful interaction between higher 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:42.740 beings and My own soul because I wasn't my body 00:12:42.740 --> 00:12:45.440 that was there. It was my soul Did you feel like 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:47.500 they were trying to talk you into going back? 00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:50.740 I've thought about that many times over the years 00:12:50.740 --> 00:12:53.139 and I don't think so. I think they wanted me 00:12:53.139 --> 00:12:56.299 to make the decision for my soul so they wouldn't 00:12:56.299 --> 00:12:59.299 leave a piece out. Now what they didn't tell 00:12:59.299 --> 00:13:02.919 me interestingly is how I would fare in all this. 00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:06.120 Should we talk about the physical side now? Maybe 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:10.179 so because they did not like allude to any of 00:13:10.179 --> 00:13:13.840 that. Okay. That's always one of the hardest 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:17.500 things about coming back. Right? You've been 00:13:17.500 --> 00:13:22.360 in a place with no pain peace love only good 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:25.639 and then to feel that physical pain again I mean 00:13:25.639 --> 00:13:27.559 after all you've just been through this horrible 00:13:27.559 --> 00:13:31.000 accident. It sounds like the medical personnel 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:33.820 I don't know. How did they revive you? Did they 00:13:33.820 --> 00:13:36.419 do you know did they shock you what happened? 00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:42.860 They had put something in my IV that Got the 00:13:42.860 --> 00:13:46.870 heart Whatever they would call it Like an adrenaline 00:13:46.870 --> 00:13:49.230 to restart it. That's a good one. Yeah, like 00:13:49.230 --> 00:13:52.710 an adrenaline I honestly never asked to be honest 00:13:52.710 --> 00:13:54.970 with you why they didn't do the shock but my 00:13:54.970 --> 00:13:56.929 guess is because I was eight months pregnant 00:13:56.929 --> 00:14:00.669 and that would have I Don't know what but with 00:14:00.669 --> 00:14:04.710 the adrenaline it worked Then I just remember 00:14:04.710 --> 00:14:08.350 I honestly don't remember much again until I 00:14:08.350 --> 00:14:11.590 got to the hospital and then there's just a whole 00:14:11.590 --> 00:14:14.809 lot of people everywhere Ended up going in an 00:14:14.809 --> 00:14:20.009 MRI machine because I had a broken hip and ribs 00:14:20.009 --> 00:14:24.149 had internal bleeding and right away because 00:14:24.149 --> 00:14:26.929 With a baby they get concerned about that. So 00:14:26.929 --> 00:14:28.889 they put the monitors on and they're checking 00:14:28.889 --> 00:14:33.830 all of that so Long story short and they're also 00:14:33.830 --> 00:14:37.370 picking glass Crazily, this is what I remember 00:14:37.370 --> 00:14:39.950 the most the MRI everything hurts so bad, but 00:14:39.950 --> 00:14:42.769 they can't give you for it and not a lot of pain 00:14:42.769 --> 00:14:47.210 meds, right? And so what I remember most is the 00:14:47.210 --> 00:14:50.690 like four nurses picking glass out of my arms 00:14:50.690 --> 00:14:53.750 and out of my face and from the broken glass 00:14:53.750 --> 00:14:57.250 of the car and that hurting so bad. And maybe 00:14:57.250 --> 00:14:59.389 I just focused on that because I was too afraid 00:14:59.389 --> 00:15:03.570 to focus on anything else. Once they got the 00:15:03.570 --> 00:15:06.429 monitors on and I was in intensive care, the 00:15:06.429 --> 00:15:10.870 plan was to stabilize as much as they could. 00:15:11.149 --> 00:15:15.570 and then to do surgery because I had actually 00:15:15.570 --> 00:15:19.529 gone into labor. I was given medication to slow 00:15:19.529 --> 00:15:23.570 down the labor so it could stabilize enough to 00:15:23.570 --> 00:15:26.730 do a C -section and then do any repair that they 00:15:26.730 --> 00:15:29.190 needed to do. Here's where the miracle comes 00:15:29.190 --> 00:15:33.750 that I still don't quite understand. So the doctor, 00:15:34.289 --> 00:15:37.379 the... Obstetrician and the surgeon spent the 00:15:37.379 --> 00:15:39.659 night and they were coming in like every 10 minutes 00:15:39.659 --> 00:15:42.580 and somehow I fell asleep for a while and I remember 00:15:42.580 --> 00:15:45.759 before I fell asleep I had been praying which 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:48.600 I'm not typically a religious person I'm a spiritual 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:51.679 person but I kept praying because I kept thinking 00:15:51.679 --> 00:15:55.600 well if I decided to come back I Needed I need 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:57.820 to do everything I can to make sure that this 00:15:57.820 --> 00:16:00.919 baby safe and that I'm that I'm gonna be okay 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:06.000 and I woke up to the doctor over me, screaming 00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:09.379 to the nurse to get another monitor for the pregnancy. 00:16:10.220 --> 00:16:14.440 And he puts the other one and he grabs me and 00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:16.240 looks me in the face and he's like, what did 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:20.480 you do? Your labor has stopped. I don't know. 00:16:20.740 --> 00:16:23.840 I don't know. He said, I can't believe this because 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:27.159 we were ready to do surgery in the morning and 00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:32.799 your labor has stopped. So we're just gonna watch 00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:35.639 you really close now. So I had been vomiting, 00:16:36.139 --> 00:16:38.080 not to be really gross, but I'd been vomiting. 00:16:39.019 --> 00:16:41.440 When you internal blade, you vomit a lot of black. 00:16:42.019 --> 00:16:45.120 So they had done another MRI to check all of 00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:47.620 that and had decided that they really didn't 00:16:47.620 --> 00:16:49.940 want to do the surgery for that and wait and 00:16:49.940 --> 00:16:55.200 see. I ended up going two days past my due date 00:16:55.200 --> 00:16:58.940 in the most miserable way, I will say that. But 00:16:58.940 --> 00:17:02.879 in the hospital, most of the time, At the very 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:04.539 end, they would let me come home, but I would 00:17:04.539 --> 00:17:08.059 have to go to the doctor every day. And then 00:17:08.059 --> 00:17:11.440 my baby was born. Wow. How long were you in the 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.259 hospital? Weeks, couple weeks. Did you have other 00:17:15.259 --> 00:17:18.240 broken bones besides what you mentioned? My hip 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:22.299 was broken and my pelvis was cracked. As anyone 00:17:22.299 --> 00:17:25.279 who's broken their ribs before, it's so painful. 00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:29.640 And what I remember most is At that point in 00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:33.559 time, he was already head down. It was my son 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:36.619 and he was already head down, but he would kick 00:17:36.619 --> 00:17:40.160 as he got, as he got how, as he got more, he 00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:44.099 would kick. So I sat or slapped all the time 00:17:44.099 --> 00:17:46.960 with my hand tucked under my ribs to protect 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:49.720 my ribs because every time he kicked, oh my gosh, 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:52.400 I just about came through the roof. I don't think 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:54.619 I've ever talked to anyone before that's had 00:17:54.619 --> 00:17:57.259 broken ribs while they were pregnant. That's 00:17:57.259 --> 00:18:00.230 a whole. A whole new level of pain right there. 00:18:00.470 --> 00:18:05.670 Yeah, it's really painful. And was baby okay 00:18:05.670 --> 00:18:10.549 when he was born? So he was healthy. Here's what 00:18:10.549 --> 00:18:13.549 I would say. He was physically healthy. Here's 00:18:13.549 --> 00:18:16.670 what was really interesting for anyone who doesn't 00:18:16.670 --> 00:18:19.170 think that when we're in utero, we don't hold 00:18:19.170 --> 00:18:23.470 memory. That's so false. He was a baby who was 00:18:23.470 --> 00:18:28.809 very, very attached to me and he would get upset 00:18:28.809 --> 00:18:32.329 really easily. When he was a baby, and I didn't 00:18:32.329 --> 00:18:35.210 catch it right away, but when he was a baby and 00:18:35.210 --> 00:18:39.289 ambulance or sirens would go by, he would just 00:18:39.289 --> 00:18:41.829 start shaking as if he were in a trauma response. 00:18:42.829 --> 00:18:46.390 When he was two, I think I finally figured it 00:18:46.390 --> 00:18:48.869 out enough that he would, because he was constantly 00:18:48.869 --> 00:18:50.890 doing this. And then as it got older, he would 00:18:50.890 --> 00:18:53.410 hold his ears and just shake and shake and shake 00:18:53.410 --> 00:18:58.099 like he was in a trauma response. And so, I took 00:18:58.099 --> 00:19:01.680 him to an energy worker to help clear some of 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:05.460 that because he shouldn't carry that. Wow, we 00:19:05.460 --> 00:19:07.920 don't think about those kinds of things. You 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:11.299 talked about, I think you used the term spiraling 00:19:11.299 --> 00:19:14.099 when you came back down into your body. Explain 00:19:14.099 --> 00:19:18.180 that a little bit more. If the going to was like 00:19:18.180 --> 00:19:22.380 just gently being pulled up into this place. 00:19:22.670 --> 00:19:25.990 The coming away from it was leaving that place 00:19:25.990 --> 00:19:28.650 slowly, but then like if you're coming down a 00:19:28.650 --> 00:19:31.529 fast slide and then bam, that's what that felt 00:19:31.529 --> 00:19:36.490 like. So going from that to the gurney. And you 00:19:36.490 --> 00:19:38.910 keep smacking your hands. So was it kind of like 00:19:38.910 --> 00:19:41.990 a smack back in your body, slam in your body? 00:19:42.049 --> 00:19:44.809 How would you describe it? What I remember most 00:19:44.809 --> 00:19:48.829 is like slam back in my body and feeling that 00:19:48.829 --> 00:19:51.329 hard gurney because the gurneys and ambulances 00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:54.279 because of what was happening and how I was strapped 00:19:54.279 --> 00:19:57.180 and everything. It was a hard gurney. And I remember 00:19:57.180 --> 00:20:00.200 just feeling so uncomfortable. Tell me what you 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:02.119 learned from all this. How did it change your 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:06.400 life? Radically. Wow, there's so many ways it 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:09.660 changed my life. I always speak my truth about 00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:11.940 what it was what it was like for me. I'm not 00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:14.440 saying that it's like this for I know many people 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:16.960 have had near -death experiences and just felt 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:19.680 glorious and all of that. For me, that was not 00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:23.029 the case. In all honesty, I had a deep depression. 00:20:23.710 --> 00:20:26.990 Having a baby and being in so much pain, it made 00:20:26.990 --> 00:20:29.670 me really go to that place of like, I don't know 00:20:29.670 --> 00:20:32.250 if I like this earth. I don't know if I like 00:20:32.250 --> 00:20:36.710 this. However, that being said, when I had my 00:20:36.710 --> 00:20:39.890 second child, we moved to Colorado. And that 00:20:39.890 --> 00:20:43.049 is truly when the magic started happening. And 00:20:43.049 --> 00:20:46.210 it all I truly believe it all came from this. 00:20:46.369 --> 00:20:48.289 I feel like the near -death experience was a 00:20:48.289 --> 00:20:51.710 part of my journey. It was supposed to be. I 00:20:51.710 --> 00:20:57.150 was fortunate enough to connect with a therapist 00:20:57.150 --> 00:21:00.230 who I was doing some trauma work around, around 00:21:00.230 --> 00:21:03.789 this accident. But panic was getting worse, not 00:21:03.789 --> 00:21:07.190 better. And she contacted someone, his name is 00:21:07.190 --> 00:21:09.690 Stanislav Grof. I'm not sure if you're familiar. 00:21:10.490 --> 00:21:15.250 He's a very brilliant psychiatrist who developed 00:21:15.250 --> 00:21:17.430 holotropic breathwork. He was doing research 00:21:17.430 --> 00:21:21.329 with Timothy Leary and that whole crowd in those 00:21:21.329 --> 00:21:24.470 days and came over from Prague. And when he developed 00:21:24.470 --> 00:21:27.529 holotropic breathwork, he would talk often about 00:21:27.529 --> 00:21:30.470 these different experiences. She was connected 00:21:30.470 --> 00:21:33.410 with him, which in turn, then I became connected 00:21:33.410 --> 00:21:37.359 with him and he told her to just keep me in this 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:39.920 until it passed through because this would be 00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:43.099 an initiation of some sort. He said, don't worry 00:21:43.099 --> 00:21:44.920 about it. Teachers will come along the path. 00:21:44.940 --> 00:21:47.000 And I'm like, well, screw this. I don't want 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:49.799 to be initiated into anything. I just want to 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:52.079 feel better. But the truth is that really did 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:57.259 happen. I got past it. I had shamanic teachers 00:21:57.259 --> 00:22:01.920 who came upon my path who then said, this is 00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:04.440 your journey. This is part of what you're needing 00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:08.759 to learn and the near -death experience was part 00:22:08.759 --> 00:22:12.240 of your initiation. So I went kicking. I did 00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:14.240 not want to do this. I said, I'm not going to 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:18.279 do that work. That's not who I am. We can sometimes 00:22:18.279 --> 00:22:20.539 say no all we want, but it keeps coming back 00:22:20.539 --> 00:22:24.680 in front of us, right? And so I started to learn 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:27.680 all of that. And it was true as I studied more 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:30.539 and learned more that there are like, and I knew 00:22:30.539 --> 00:22:34.079 none of this before. There are certain kinds 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:36.980 of initiations that would be looked at in tribal 00:22:36.980 --> 00:22:40.460 communities that would bring people into that 00:22:40.460 --> 00:22:43.259 space. And a near -death experience was one of 00:22:43.259 --> 00:22:47.940 the prime ones. We're just about done. But before 00:22:47.940 --> 00:22:50.220 I ask the last couple of questions, was there 00:22:50.220 --> 00:22:52.779 anything else on this whole journey that you 00:22:52.779 --> 00:22:55.920 wanted to fill in for us? It's not about me, 00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:59.099 but it's about my son. Because my son who was 00:22:59.099 --> 00:23:02.230 born in this, I... sometimes think he was supposed 00:23:02.230 --> 00:23:06.130 to. He ended up spending much of his time in 00:23:06.130 --> 00:23:10.170 Nepal and India and Tibet. He now translates 00:23:10.170 --> 00:23:13.710 Sanskrit and he speaks many languages and he 00:23:13.710 --> 00:23:17.130 teaches Buddhism. And so I don't know, that's 00:23:17.130 --> 00:23:19.329 his journey and we've talked about it on and 00:23:19.329 --> 00:23:21.630 off, but I sometimes wonder if this wasn't part 00:23:21.630 --> 00:23:24.369 of his journey as well. It really sounds like 00:23:24.369 --> 00:23:28.450 it, doesn't it? Doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. How much 00:23:28.450 --> 00:23:31.119 fear of death do you have? This is what I always 00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:34.759 say, I have no fear. And then when the time comes 00:23:34.759 --> 00:23:36.859 when you know you're gonna die, who knows, right? 00:23:37.180 --> 00:23:41.000 But I do, I get called sometimes by hospice to 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:44.420 journey, to journey with people into their own 00:23:44.420 --> 00:23:47.940 deaths. And when you journey with people into 00:23:47.940 --> 00:23:51.400 their death, it's so beautiful to watch what 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:54.579 their journey across is. Can I share the death 00:23:54.579 --> 00:23:58.180 of my father? Yeah. I was just going to ask for 00:23:58.180 --> 00:24:00.579 an example. So go ahead and tell us about his. 00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:03.099 There's actually two that come to my mind that 00:24:03.099 --> 00:24:07.019 were so beautiful. So when my father passed away. 00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:11.079 So think about my father. He was, he worked on 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:13.460 Apollo. He was like an engineer. He worked on 00:24:13.460 --> 00:24:16.119 Apollo. He figured out how to bend titanium. 00:24:16.299 --> 00:24:19.400 So totally a science mind. He was not spiritual 00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:23.660 at all. When he was dying of cancer, he came 00:24:23.660 --> 00:24:28.359 to me with shock and asked me if I would help 00:24:28.359 --> 00:24:32.140 him, help him die, help him cross. I said, well, 00:24:32.160 --> 00:24:34.400 you know what that means. You know that I drum 00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:37.579 and I go in and journey. And he's like, that's 00:24:37.579 --> 00:24:40.380 what I want. And he started to cry. Oftentimes 00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:43.319 hospice gives you that three hour window, right? 00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:46.599 Where they think people, someone will pass. So 00:24:46.599 --> 00:24:49.920 my mom and my sister and I, went to him and I 00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.519 had all my things with me, my drum and my rattle, 00:24:52.859 --> 00:24:55.039 and I could tell that he was starting to go. 00:24:55.460 --> 00:24:58.180 So when someone journeys for someone, when they're 00:24:58.180 --> 00:25:00.660 dying, you actually go with their soul. You actually 00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:02.859 help their soul leave and you actually get to 00:25:02.859 --> 00:25:05.400 see what happens at that very beginning. It's 00:25:05.400 --> 00:25:07.859 not always like horrendous, you know, like the 00:25:07.859 --> 00:25:10.200 bad things that I went through. The first thing 00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:15.259 that happened was, and this was in a hospice 00:25:15.259 --> 00:25:18.160 facility, not a hospital. There were many people 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:21.420 down the hall and all of that. And when he, when 00:25:21.420 --> 00:25:23.599 his breathing started to really change, then 00:25:23.599 --> 00:25:29.559 I saw a whole line of elephants come walking 00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:32.700 towards him. Or anyone listening should know 00:25:32.700 --> 00:25:34.880 that he did love elephants and I have a love 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:37.259 of elephants too, but I've never seen them in 00:25:37.259 --> 00:25:40.240 a journey. And there was a whole row of them, 00:25:40.259 --> 00:25:43.359 I don't know, maybe 20. It came towards him and 00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:46.559 they started to circle his bed. Just circle and 00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:50.619 circle and circle and circle. And then they stopped 00:25:50.619 --> 00:25:54.000 and the biggest one took his trunk and lifted 00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:58.380 his soul onto his back, turned around and started 00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:01.799 to walk towards the light. So there there was 00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:04.599 this beautiful light of the very far away, but 00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:08.559 it was there. The second elephant behind him 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:11.700 said, you can come to the edge, but you know, 00:26:11.700 --> 00:26:14.619 you can't cross through. Speaking to you, not 00:26:14.619 --> 00:26:20.460 him. Me. And I said, OK. So I rode on that elephant's 00:26:20.460 --> 00:26:22.259 back. And then there was a whole row behind that. 00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:25.720 We got to the edge of the light. They all stopped. 00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:28.539 And the elephant that I was on said, you have 00:26:28.539 --> 00:26:31.759 to know you have to get off now. And so I did. 00:26:31.980 --> 00:26:35.519 And only like through talking to my mom and my 00:26:35.519 --> 00:26:37.579 sister, who were right there, because I'm in 00:26:37.579 --> 00:26:40.380 a journey. As soon as I got off the elephant, 00:26:40.500 --> 00:26:44.089 the elephants walked into the light. they lined 00:26:44.089 --> 00:26:48.049 up in a straight line like looking at us it was 00:26:48.049 --> 00:26:50.849 at that moment that my dad took his last breath 00:26:50.849 --> 00:26:55.490 and at that exact moment all the elephants raised 00:26:55.490 --> 00:26:59.329 their trunks and there was this incredible bright 00:26:59.329 --> 00:27:02.529 light like it consumed everything in the room 00:27:02.529 --> 00:27:07.289 and Trumpeted to the point that and this is truth 00:27:07.289 --> 00:27:12.150 half of that hall woke up weeping Because it 00:27:12.150 --> 00:27:14.690 was nighttime. It was three in the morning Two 00:27:14.690 --> 00:27:17.170 of the nurses came running into the room wondering 00:27:17.170 --> 00:27:21.170 what was happening and they were sobbing It was 00:27:21.170 --> 00:27:24.190 so beautiful That's a beautiful story. Thank 00:27:24.190 --> 00:27:27.369 you for sharing and my father had a tortured 00:27:27.369 --> 00:27:30.509 life. So for me that that was so beautiful because 00:27:30.509 --> 00:27:34.609 he had been He had been in Siberian prison camps 00:27:34.609 --> 00:27:37.769 and you know survived quite a bit. So then I 00:27:37.769 --> 00:27:40.619 thought And I had already sat for other people, 00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:43.839 but I began to think this is what's so important 00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:46.000 for our loved ones to know, like what was it 00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:49.440 like for them. So I had gotten a call from Hospice 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:52.119 that there was a Native American man in the Native 00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:54.059 American tradition. This is the way it would 00:27:54.059 --> 00:27:56.519 go anyway, is to drum for that person and go 00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:00.400 with them. And I happened in the time to be in 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:03.920 Hawaii facilitating a retreat. And so Hospice 00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:05.880 called and said, we have a Native American man. 00:28:05.920 --> 00:28:08.900 He really wants you to come. journey with him. 00:28:09.099 --> 00:28:12.279 I said, I'm in Hawaii. I think this was on a 00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:15.200 Tuesday maybe or a Monday. I'm like, I can't, 00:28:15.299 --> 00:28:17.960 I won't be back until Friday, but I'll, and they 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:20.359 said, oh, he'll never make it till Friday. He's 00:28:20.359 --> 00:28:22.960 already in a coma and he's modeling and all of 00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:26.819 that. And I said, okay, well, when I fly in, 00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:29.079 when I know that I'm landed, I'll check with 00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:33.319 you and see. So this is what's really funny. 00:28:33.700 --> 00:28:37.400 So When I got off the plane, I called immediately, 00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:42.599 I called hospice, and this man, his two daughter, 00:28:42.700 --> 00:28:45.839 his two estranged daughters, I should say, had 00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:48.180 called a priest because they wanted his last 00:28:48.180 --> 00:28:51.759 rites to be read. He sat up out of a dead coma 00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:54.619 and told the priest to get the fuck out of there. 00:28:56.220 --> 00:28:59.599 Then laid back down and went in a coma and he 00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:03.339 waited. I couldn't believe it, he waited. So 00:29:03.339 --> 00:29:05.559 I got home, I got my things, I went right over 00:29:05.559 --> 00:29:08.460 to hospice. His two estranged daughters were 00:29:08.460 --> 00:29:12.079 there, I knew nothing about this man. And he 00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:14.839 was ready to go, there's no doubt. And so I just 00:29:14.839 --> 00:29:17.680 began the journey, I began the drumming. In his 00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:20.859 particular case, when he left his body, we were 00:29:20.859 --> 00:29:24.059 on like a pathway around this beautiful lake. 00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:28.339 And there was a very old woman who came to greet 00:29:28.339 --> 00:29:31.259 him and he was just weeping. She took his hand 00:29:31.259 --> 00:29:33.279 and they began to walk around the lake going 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.559 this way. And as they walked around from the 00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:39.940 side, there was a whole herd of pinto horses 00:29:39.940 --> 00:29:45.099 who had run to greet him as well. And just as 00:29:45.099 --> 00:29:47.480 that happened, he took his last breath and that 00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:51.319 was that. But I was very confused. So it's best. 00:29:51.549 --> 00:29:53.970 in my world that I not know things because then 00:29:53.970 --> 00:29:57.289 I really trust it and so I asked the daughters 00:29:57.289 --> 00:29:59.829 like what was his life story like so here's what 00:29:59.829 --> 00:30:04.529 his story was he grew up on the rez and his mother 00:30:04.529 --> 00:30:07.710 couldn't take care of him so he was sort of abandoned 00:30:07.710 --> 00:30:10.230 at a young age and the tribe sort of took care 00:30:10.230 --> 00:30:14.569 of him but then he left the tribe and guess what 00:30:14.730 --> 00:30:17.750 He lived on a small farm. He had these two children, 00:30:17.910 --> 00:30:20.490 but these two girls he sort of abandoned too. 00:30:21.190 --> 00:30:24.410 And then later in life, they sort of had a little 00:30:24.410 --> 00:30:27.029 bit of contact with each other. Guess what he 00:30:27.029 --> 00:30:31.190 did for his hobby? He raised mental horses. And 00:30:31.190 --> 00:30:33.250 then I said, well, who's this older woman? Well, 00:30:33.309 --> 00:30:36.490 it was his mother who had abandoned him. Came 00:30:36.490 --> 00:30:39.789 to get him. Came to get him. It was a beautiful 00:30:39.789 --> 00:30:43.910 story in a sense. So it's always like where I 00:30:43.910 --> 00:30:48.289 go to that no matter how we die or no matter 00:30:48.289 --> 00:30:52.609 what preceded that, we still go to these beautiful, 00:30:52.609 --> 00:30:55.089 we go home, we go to these beautiful places and 00:30:55.089 --> 00:30:58.930 how we go may be different for each person, but 00:30:58.930 --> 00:31:02.849 it's still beautiful. Deb, thanks so much for 00:31:02.849 --> 00:31:05.450 all that you do, for helping all of these people 00:31:05.450 --> 00:31:07.890 and for sharing these great stories with us today. 00:31:08.130 --> 00:31:10.980 I really appreciate it. Thank you. and hopefully 00:31:10.980 --> 00:31:13.700 it will help someone else. That's the whole idea. 00:31:13.859 --> 00:31:16.160 That's what this show is all about. Yeah. Is 00:31:16.160 --> 00:31:18.460 we're just delivering a message of hope out there 00:31:18.460 --> 00:31:22.299 for everybody. Thanks again for listening and 00:31:22.299 --> 00:31:24.619 sharing this podcast. Don't forget to hit the 00:31:24.619 --> 00:31:27.420 follow or subscribe button and sign up for our 00:31:27.420 --> 00:31:30.259 newsletter at roundtripdeath .com. If you want 00:31:30.259 --> 00:31:32.819 to share your near -death experience, or if you 00:31:32.819 --> 00:31:35.180 have questions or comments about the show, send 00:31:35.180 --> 00:31:38.740 an email to eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until 00:31:38.740 --> 00:31:40.700 then, I wish you everything good that you're 00:31:40.700 --> 00:31:43.079 looking for in this life and the next.