WEBVTT 00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:06.660 From the time that they pronounced me that was 00:00:06.660 --> 00:00:10.240 a good 45 minutes They cut my clothes and then 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:13.580 they paddled my heart my heart stopped and I 00:00:13.580 --> 00:00:17.100 could see people screaming and crying But I didn't 00:00:17.100 --> 00:00:19.660 realize that was actually my physical body because 00:00:19.660 --> 00:00:22.879 I was somewhere else The only thing that I could 00:00:22.879 --> 00:00:26.780 feel if you can imagine Absolute love and peace 00:00:26.780 --> 00:00:29.800 there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was 00:00:29.800 --> 00:00:32.840 greeted by people I had known in the past I'm 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:36.219 back home again. Incredibly safe and felt at 00:00:36.219 --> 00:00:41.280 home. Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody. 00:00:41.539 --> 00:00:44.460 And a warm welcome this morning to Holly Porter, 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:48.079 who's coming to us from Southern Utah. And hey, 00:00:48.280 --> 00:00:50.899 it's great to have you, Holly. Thanks. Great 00:00:50.899 --> 00:00:53.439 to be here, Eric. Hey, one thing that I forgot 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:56.399 to forewarn you of, and that is on this show. 00:00:56.829 --> 00:00:59.350 We like to get to know our guests a little bit 00:00:59.350 --> 00:01:02.649 personally. So if you wouldn't mind, before we 00:01:02.649 --> 00:01:05.230 jump into your near -death experience, taking 00:01:05.230 --> 00:01:07.829 just one minute to tell us a little bit about 00:01:07.829 --> 00:01:11.250 you. Who is Holly? Well, thank you. Well, I've 00:01:11.250 --> 00:01:14.030 always been an entrepreneur. I grew up with parents 00:01:14.030 --> 00:01:16.849 that were entrepreneurs, and I am from a family 00:01:16.849 --> 00:01:20.819 of nine children. and then my parents. And so 00:01:20.819 --> 00:01:23.439 I've always had my own companies. I've had 11 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:25.939 startup companies, not even counting all the 00:01:25.939 --> 00:01:28.219 little things that I did over the years or help 00:01:28.219 --> 00:01:30.579 my kids set up in business, not even counting 00:01:30.579 --> 00:01:33.560 those. So I just, I get excited about new things. 00:01:34.060 --> 00:01:36.459 I don't jump ship easy. I usually overlap what 00:01:36.459 --> 00:01:39.900 I do. So I've had all kinds of businesses from 00:01:39.900 --> 00:01:42.019 I had a hair salon for 20 years. I've done real 00:01:42.019 --> 00:01:44.900 estate for over 20 years. We've had a concrete 00:01:44.900 --> 00:01:47.579 company for, I don't know, 30 something years. 00:01:48.019 --> 00:01:51.079 You have a nonprofit. We have a nonprofit. Yeah, 00:01:51.140 --> 00:01:53.120 I'll share a little bit more about that in my 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:56.079 story. And that's that's an exciting thing that's 00:01:56.079 --> 00:01:58.140 came just in the last few years. We also have 00:01:58.140 --> 00:02:00.980 eight children of our own and 18 grandkids. I 00:02:00.980 --> 00:02:04.159 think that's it. You deserve a round of applause 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:07.790 for that. That's fantastic. So congratulations, 00:02:07.870 --> 00:02:11.330 you are a busy person. And I don't know how with 00:02:11.330 --> 00:02:13.930 everything you have going on, how you ever had 00:02:13.930 --> 00:02:18.409 time to get sick. But in 2021, what happened? 00:02:18.949 --> 00:02:22.349 Well, I really didn't. I got a common cold usually 00:02:22.349 --> 00:02:25.590 once a year maybe, but I just I was a very healthy 00:02:25.590 --> 00:02:28.349 person. So when we were in the midst of COVID, 00:02:28.449 --> 00:02:32.810 we started going back to events and I love events. 00:02:33.210 --> 00:02:36.169 I participate and have my own. So I ended up 00:02:36.169 --> 00:02:38.289 going to a conference and came back with COVID, 00:02:38.669 --> 00:02:41.550 the Delta version. And I always think about sitting 00:02:41.550 --> 00:02:44.009 on that plane, how many people I infected on 00:02:44.009 --> 00:02:47.550 my way home. And I pray none of them died from 00:02:47.550 --> 00:02:50.990 that because I got so sick. So I came home, I 00:02:50.990 --> 00:02:54.050 fought it and really almost refused and didn't 00:02:54.050 --> 00:02:56.409 even consider going to the hospital for a week. 00:02:56.770 --> 00:02:59.240 Because like I said, I just... thought I'd be 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:02.800 fine until I woke up and intuitively knew I was 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:07.840 not fine. I got him sick when I got home. We 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:09.860 were living in a fifth wheel, so we're tiny little 00:03:09.860 --> 00:03:13.219 quarters of germs. We were waiting to close on 00:03:13.219 --> 00:03:15.919 a house, which we ultimately ended up losing 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:18.120 because they didn't know if I'd live or die. 00:03:18.699 --> 00:03:21.659 So we had to get another house later down the 00:03:21.659 --> 00:03:23.900 road. But he took me to the hospital and just 00:03:23.900 --> 00:03:26.340 dropped me off. Not just dropped me off, dropped 00:03:26.340 --> 00:03:29.580 me off at the front to go park. Let me clarify 00:03:29.580 --> 00:03:31.680 that. Just open the door and kick you right out. 00:03:31.780 --> 00:03:34.319 See you later. Get out. I can't help you anymore. 00:03:34.599 --> 00:03:37.599 Well, he said he parked and by the time he walked 00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:41.860 in to the ER, they already had me on my way up 00:03:41.860 --> 00:03:44.520 to the ICU. ER, I've never heard that quick. 00:03:44.569 --> 00:03:46.909 moving. They knew I was in trouble. My oxygen 00:03:46.909 --> 00:03:50.389 was at 63. They said I probably would have made 00:03:50.389 --> 00:03:53.310 it maybe another hour as bad as I was. So four 00:03:53.310 --> 00:03:55.389 days, I think it was pretty clear. I didn't want 00:03:55.389 --> 00:03:57.610 to be intubated. I actually ended up getting 00:03:57.610 --> 00:04:01.509 intubated twice, had a trachea, had sepsis, and 00:04:01.509 --> 00:04:03.310 a couple of other life threatening infections 00:04:03.310 --> 00:04:05.229 while I was there that any one of those would 00:04:05.229 --> 00:04:08.189 have taken me out. But the will to live was there, 00:04:08.189 --> 00:04:11.729 I guess, and God's will was there. And that's 00:04:11.729 --> 00:04:14.639 where I had About within a three and a half week 00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:18.139 period of time is where I had all of these experiences. 00:04:18.339 --> 00:04:22.160 And I wasn't aware that there was out of body 00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:25.240 spiritual transformation experiences and near 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:27.459 death experience. I just, I'd only heard of near 00:04:27.459 --> 00:04:29.879 death experiences. So it's been a learning journey 00:04:29.879 --> 00:04:33.120 for me and it's, it's been a game changer and 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:35.740 a life changer for me. Well, I want to talk about 00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:38.860 all of those, but let's start with the near death 00:04:38.860 --> 00:04:42.000 experience itself and then we'll branch out from 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:45.660 there. So was there a time where you were clinically 00:04:45.660 --> 00:04:50.300 dead or someplace in between? Because we've heard 00:04:50.300 --> 00:04:53.279 near -death experiences from people that were 00:04:53.279 --> 00:04:56.439 in comas, including people that had COVID. Where 00:04:56.439 --> 00:04:59.800 were you at? What happened? I don't ever, anyone 00:04:59.800 --> 00:05:02.620 were telling me that I flatlined. So I guess 00:05:02.620 --> 00:05:04.480 I would say the in -between, which is interesting. 00:05:04.879 --> 00:05:08.100 The in -between is part of my story. So for me, 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:11.000 my journey started. I left in these experiences. 00:05:11.500 --> 00:05:13.240 I mean, I laugh about it because it's kind of 00:05:13.240 --> 00:05:16.699 funny. But I mean, it just was my story. So I 00:05:16.699 --> 00:05:20.439 would leave in my bed. And there's even even 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:22.240 a chapter we're writing in a book called, you 00:05:22.240 --> 00:05:24.699 know, my book that's called me in my bed, because 00:05:24.699 --> 00:05:27.339 I think subconsciously, I was aware I was sick. 00:05:27.620 --> 00:05:30.180 And I was aware I wasn't doing well. And if I 00:05:30.180 --> 00:05:33.300 left my body to go to these places. I might not 00:05:33.300 --> 00:05:35.860 get it back. And I think I really knew that. 00:05:36.100 --> 00:05:39.199 And so I took it with me. So the near death experience 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:42.639 was the same. I took my bed and now I'm going 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:47.579 down the hallway to the long corridor. And I 00:05:47.579 --> 00:05:50.459 remember kind of sitting up shaking my finger 00:05:50.459 --> 00:05:53.879 at the receptionist saying, I rescind my DNR. 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:56.740 I rescind my DNR. And I think they had just had 00:05:56.740 --> 00:05:59.730 me sign all that because when they put the ventilator 00:05:59.730 --> 00:06:02.069 in you, you pretty much sign your life away, 00:06:02.329 --> 00:06:05.449 which seems really odd because that's under duress 00:06:05.449 --> 00:06:07.509 for real estate. I don't know how that's not 00:06:07.509 --> 00:06:11.769 duress. Yeah, terrifying. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, whatever. 00:06:11.889 --> 00:06:14.170 Anyway, and it's really tricky when they intubate 00:06:14.170 --> 00:06:17.310 you, by the way. They only have these few seconds 00:06:17.310 --> 00:06:19.250 because you've got to be stable enough that you 00:06:19.250 --> 00:06:21.490 could not have a breath long enough for them 00:06:21.490 --> 00:06:23.949 to get the tubes down you. Yeah, it's traumatic. 00:06:24.329 --> 00:06:28.560 I never suffered from PTSD or... or anxiety before. 00:06:28.939 --> 00:06:30.980 And so all those things, I mean, if you, anyone 00:06:30.980 --> 00:06:32.939 that has that kind of experience definitely has 00:06:32.939 --> 00:06:36.019 suffered from that. But in the experience, I'm 00:06:36.019 --> 00:06:39.560 going down the corridor and then I'm seeing all 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:42.560 these other beds going with me. I don't know. 00:06:42.660 --> 00:06:44.420 I didn't give it much thought, but we're all 00:06:44.420 --> 00:06:46.160 just hanging out, going down these hallways. 00:06:46.519 --> 00:06:48.959 And I look back now and think those were probably 00:06:48.959 --> 00:06:51.079 other people in the hospital dying because we 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:53.680 had half of them at the time dying. They had 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:56.540 two full floors full of people with this Delta 00:06:56.540 --> 00:06:59.980 version. Next thing I know, I'm in like what 00:06:59.980 --> 00:07:02.819 I call a stadium. It was like you figure the 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:05.399 biggest football stadium or whatever that you 00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:08.560 see. And in the sky boxes was where all of us 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:10.519 got to go because we were in beds and we couldn't 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:13.500 get out of them. So we all got put there. And 00:07:13.500 --> 00:07:16.500 then there was this like pause. It's like, next 00:07:16.500 --> 00:07:20.860 thing I know, I'm out of my bed and I'm in that 00:07:20.860 --> 00:07:25.240 stadium and there's thousands of people. I remember 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:28.759 seeing all this matter floating around and everything 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:31.360 was just, it was so bright that I'm surprised 00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:34.379 I could see. I could see very clearly and I'm 00:07:34.379 --> 00:07:37.300 legally blind. I need hefty correction to get 00:07:37.300 --> 00:07:40.639 my eyesight. I remember that being kind of an 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:43.050 aha. I was like, Wow, I can see the best I can 00:07:43.050 --> 00:07:45.389 see, even with all this matter and stuff swirling 00:07:45.389 --> 00:07:48.050 around. What do you mean by matter? What did 00:07:48.050 --> 00:07:53.389 it look like? Like fog, but it was bright. Everything 00:07:53.389 --> 00:07:57.550 necessarily maybe wasn't white, but just bright. 00:07:58.189 --> 00:08:00.610 Yeah, it would just like swirl around, but I 00:08:00.610 --> 00:08:03.410 could see most everybody I could see from the 00:08:03.410 --> 00:08:07.250 waist up, but I do remember seeing feet and nobody 00:08:07.250 --> 00:08:10.040 was on the ground. So there's thousands of people, 00:08:10.220 --> 00:08:12.319 nobody's touching the ground. I don't remember 00:08:12.319 --> 00:08:14.759 having any thoughts that that was weird because 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:18.120 I was like in the moment. I was there. I was 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:22.660 like so fascinated with this experience and they, 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:26.620 everybody's having fun. I say it was a concert 00:08:26.620 --> 00:08:30.500 because then the music starts and the music is 00:08:30.500 --> 00:08:34.019 coming from all four directions everywhere. It's 00:08:34.019 --> 00:08:37.769 singing and it's, it's just like. the most angelic 00:08:37.769 --> 00:08:41.309 voices I've ever heard. And I'm a singer, not 00:08:41.309 --> 00:08:44.190 now, COVID took my voice away, unfortunately, 00:08:44.509 --> 00:08:47.490 but I remember I didn't recognize any of the 00:08:47.490 --> 00:08:50.490 songs, but I knew the words to every song. So 00:08:50.490 --> 00:08:52.889 I'm just sitting there enjoying it with people 00:08:52.889 --> 00:08:56.649 singing along and they're having these conversations, 00:08:56.950 --> 00:08:59.649 nobody's talking. So it all had to be, you know, 00:08:59.730 --> 00:09:02.769 telepathy. And I remember it was like light speed. 00:09:02.889 --> 00:09:05.090 If you had a thought, you had an answer. If you 00:09:05.090 --> 00:09:07.210 wanted to know something, you knew it just like 00:09:07.210 --> 00:09:10.470 everything was just like, and so I remember doing 00:09:10.470 --> 00:09:13.149 all that. And then the next thing I know, I'm 00:09:13.149 --> 00:09:16.389 having what I would call my life review. And 00:09:16.389 --> 00:09:19.850 all I'm seeing is love. All I'm seeing is, you 00:09:19.850 --> 00:09:23.690 know, hugging and, and acts of good service and 00:09:23.690 --> 00:09:26.700 kindness. And, and I don't know if at that moment 00:09:26.700 --> 00:09:29.519 I remember thinking, where's all the bad? I mean, 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:32.120 I probably had that thought. That was just it. 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:34.320 I just kept seeing good after good after good. 00:09:34.740 --> 00:09:38.820 And then I was told two things. I was told I 00:09:38.820 --> 00:09:41.820 had pitched a company with a new business idea 00:09:41.820 --> 00:09:44.960 that had a billionaire backer. And the day I 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:47.340 found out I had COVID, I pitched about nine people 00:09:47.340 --> 00:09:51.580 on a Zoom. And I was told not to partner with 00:09:51.580 --> 00:09:54.279 them. That wasn't the highest and best use. to 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:56.679 put with that company that that wasn't the right 00:09:56.679 --> 00:09:59.019 thing to do and don't do it. It'll take you longer. 00:09:59.340 --> 00:10:01.799 Don't do it. So that was the first thing. The 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:04.759 second thing I was told was to start this nonprofit 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:08.799 and it was called Adventure Bucket Wish. And 00:10:08.799 --> 00:10:10.940 I thought, oh, that's a, I remember thinking 00:10:10.940 --> 00:10:12.919 that's a fun name. That sounds fun to me, you 00:10:12.919 --> 00:10:15.320 know, and I like fun. If it's not fun, I'm not 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:18.740 doing it. So that was the only instructions I 00:10:18.740 --> 00:10:21.460 got. Nothing else was laid out. No other assignment. 00:10:21.820 --> 00:10:25.860 I didn't get a choice to stay or to go. I just 00:10:25.860 --> 00:10:29.120 had to come back. So next thing I know, I'm back 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:34.659 in my body. I'm very anxious and probably a little 00:10:34.659 --> 00:10:38.379 agitated and scared. So my husband couldn't come 00:10:38.379 --> 00:10:39.919 stay with me in the hospital for three and a 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:42.460 half weeks because he had COVID. So they wouldn't 00:10:42.460 --> 00:10:44.679 let him in. And when he did finally get to come, 00:10:44.740 --> 00:10:47.820 I can have one person every 24 hours. And so 00:10:47.820 --> 00:10:50.720 I had two twin sisters that would take 24 hour 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:52.580 shifts. Most of the time they were the ones with 00:10:52.580 --> 00:10:55.480 me and they would stay. And I think intuitively 00:10:55.480 --> 00:10:58.669 they knew in the beginning that I needed I needed 00:10:58.669 --> 00:11:00.990 them there. I feel like they saved my life by 00:11:00.990 --> 00:11:03.809 being there. Just the accountability for the 00:11:03.809 --> 00:11:07.690 medical staff, just for the comfort for me. So 00:11:07.690 --> 00:11:11.649 the sister's there and she could tell something 00:11:11.649 --> 00:11:13.769 was going on. Well, I couldn't talk because I 00:11:13.769 --> 00:11:16.190 was still intubated and they had brought out 00:11:16.190 --> 00:11:18.769 an alphabet and I could point at letters to spell 00:11:18.769 --> 00:11:21.409 things out, which sometimes one word took me 00:11:21.409 --> 00:11:24.070 like two hours to spell because I was so weak. 00:11:24.250 --> 00:11:27.350 She starts bringing that out and I start spelling 00:11:27.350 --> 00:11:32.909 K -I -D. And she says, oh, do you need me to 00:11:32.909 --> 00:11:34.929 tell your kids or do something with your kids? 00:11:35.370 --> 00:11:41.629 And she knew that wasn't it. And then N -A -P. 00:11:42.049 --> 00:11:45.250 And she said, when you spelled out kidnap, I 00:11:45.250 --> 00:11:47.710 had ran an errand because I was doing better. 00:11:48.049 --> 00:11:50.169 When I came back, obviously my body was doing 00:11:50.169 --> 00:11:53.200 better. And she ran an errand. came back and 00:11:53.200 --> 00:11:55.440 she said, what happened? She goes, I wanted to 00:11:55.440 --> 00:11:58.179 throw up because I was like, I just left for 00:11:58.179 --> 00:12:00.500 a little bit. So right when she figures out what 00:12:00.500 --> 00:12:03.940 I say, the doctor and the nurse come in and they 00:12:03.940 --> 00:12:06.440 come to exubate me and take the tube out. So 00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:08.600 she said, this was in between my first and my 00:12:08.600 --> 00:12:10.980 second intubation. And she said, when they took 00:12:10.980 --> 00:12:13.559 it out, you could talk, not very well, but you 00:12:13.559 --> 00:12:16.570 had a lot to say. I realized quickly there were 00:12:16.570 --> 00:12:19.029 people in the room, spirits in the room, and 00:12:19.029 --> 00:12:21.289 I realized quickly that I was the only one that 00:12:21.289 --> 00:12:23.929 could see them. After the doctor and nurse left, 00:12:23.990 --> 00:12:27.490 my sister was opening up the bathroom door, the 00:12:27.490 --> 00:12:30.129 closet, the drawers, showing me no one's in here, 00:12:30.169 --> 00:12:33.129 no one's in here. And so I was always really 00:12:33.129 --> 00:12:35.730 unsettled. Why did I feel kidnapped? I just was 00:12:35.730 --> 00:12:38.190 at the best concert of my life. That's the way 00:12:38.190 --> 00:12:40.909 I looked at it at the time. I mean, I was having 00:12:40.909 --> 00:12:43.250 the best time ever. Why would I feel kidnapped? 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:47.799 So I didn't get an answer to that until two years 00:12:47.799 --> 00:12:51.480 later. So two years after that, I had the worst, 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.220 worst two years of my whole life. I was doing 00:12:55.220 --> 00:12:58.299 things that I was told I incorporated these two 00:12:58.299 --> 00:13:00.100 companies within like three months out of the 00:13:00.100 --> 00:13:02.879 hospital. And because long COVID was just getting 00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:06.059 known of what that is, of course that came and 00:13:06.059 --> 00:13:08.919 then all the crappy diagnoses came and all the 00:13:08.990 --> 00:13:11.570 life -threatening lung disease came, and all 00:13:11.570 --> 00:13:13.370 these other things came after I got out of the 00:13:13.370 --> 00:13:15.950 hospital, not counting the rehabilitation, staying 00:13:15.950 --> 00:13:18.830 on oxygen for eight more months. There was a 00:13:18.830 --> 00:13:21.610 lot of things that were happening, a lot of COVID 00:13:21.610 --> 00:13:26.350 fog. You would think that your family would embrace 00:13:26.350 --> 00:13:28.929 you thinking they just about lost you, and they 00:13:28.929 --> 00:13:31.509 still could have. I was still very ill. And it 00:13:31.509 --> 00:13:34.389 was like I repelled everybody. I had my husband, 00:13:34.549 --> 00:13:36.470 a couple close friends, and a couple siblings 00:13:36.470 --> 00:13:39.690 who I felt like my whole world was. I felt like 00:13:39.690 --> 00:13:42.070 they were the only ones that had my back. I found 00:13:42.070 --> 00:13:46.009 myself in jeopardized relationships with siblings 00:13:46.009 --> 00:13:50.470 and with my children. And I couldn't make sense 00:13:50.470 --> 00:13:53.110 of any of it. I was going through the hardest 00:13:53.110 --> 00:13:56.250 time ever. So for two years, I went through this, 00:13:56.370 --> 00:13:59.210 cried every day, prayed almost every day that 00:13:59.210 --> 00:14:02.639 I would have died. I just thought, why would 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:06.279 a God of love, why would he save me to put me 00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:09.679 through this hell? Why? I don't understand. Why 00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:13.080 didn't you just let me die? So of course, when 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:15.340 we're in things and in circumstances, we don't 00:14:15.340 --> 00:14:17.899 really understand until later when we look back 00:14:17.899 --> 00:14:21.059 and see really what was happening. So fast forward 00:14:21.059 --> 00:14:25.120 two years, I was really feeling like I was working 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:28.360 on a book and I was feeling like I knew the out 00:14:28.360 --> 00:14:30.860 -of -body experiences. I knew the spiritual transformation 00:14:30.860 --> 00:14:32.899 experience that I had. I was very clear on all 00:14:32.899 --> 00:14:35.860 those. But then near death, there was some gaps. 00:14:36.179 --> 00:14:39.320 I mean, when I bounced from the bed to the arena, 00:14:39.860 --> 00:14:42.679 it was just like... What's going on here? So 00:14:42.679 --> 00:14:45.799 out of integrity for my book, I asked a friend 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:48.460 of mine who does hypnosis and he trained me in 00:14:48.460 --> 00:14:50.759 hypnosis a few years prior. So I was very familiar 00:14:50.759 --> 00:14:53.960 with the way it works. And I asked him if he'd 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:56.720 do a session on just my NDE. So we did about 00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:59.139 an hour and 40 minute session. And I'm telling 00:14:59.139 --> 00:15:03.700 you that was almost as good as the NDE. It's 00:15:03.700 --> 00:15:06.120 weird that I didn't compare them, but I'll share 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:08.779 and then you'll understand why. Can I just interject 00:15:08.779 --> 00:15:11.059 a couple things as long as we have a little pause 00:15:11.059 --> 00:15:15.480 here right now? It is relatively normal for people 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:19.440 to remember some of their NDE immediately and 00:15:19.440 --> 00:15:22.279 then have more memories of it come back as time 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:25.720 goes on. That doesn't make it any less real, 00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:30.299 okay? In fact, I want to hear all about the hypnosis. 00:15:30.379 --> 00:15:33.340 So how about if we do some questions on this 00:15:33.340 --> 00:15:35.820 part and then let's move on to the hypnosis in 00:15:35.820 --> 00:15:38.990 the next chapter? You said that the songs that 00:15:38.990 --> 00:15:42.730 were being sung by this angelic choir in this 00:15:42.730 --> 00:15:45.529 stadium, that you didn't know them, but you knew 00:15:45.529 --> 00:15:48.929 the words somehow. Do you remember any of those 00:15:48.929 --> 00:15:51.090 words? Do you remember anything that was sung? 00:15:51.509 --> 00:15:54.450 That is such a good question. I never thought 00:15:54.450 --> 00:15:57.929 about it. I don't think so. I don't think so, 00:15:57.929 --> 00:15:59.669 but hopefully that's more of what I'll remember 00:15:59.669 --> 00:16:03.029 later. Because I just remember they were so beautiful. 00:16:03.549 --> 00:16:05.090 And I was like, I've never heard these, but I 00:16:05.090 --> 00:16:07.480 could sing right along. Like I had everything 00:16:07.480 --> 00:16:11.919 memorized. OK, my next question. I have too many. 00:16:12.100 --> 00:16:14.639 Our listeners know this. I go crazy with questions, 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:17.440 but I'll I'll try to keep them brief. Was there 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:19.659 any kind of an unusual feeling going back into 00:16:19.659 --> 00:16:22.120 your body or was it just a very natural thing? 00:16:22.539 --> 00:16:25.740 I remember just, yeah, just being there. I remember 00:16:25.740 --> 00:16:28.159 not getting a choice to come back and just being 00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:30.580 there. OK, I want to know a little bit more about 00:16:30.580 --> 00:16:33.399 your life review. You said you only remembered 00:16:33.399 --> 00:16:35.759 the good things. Can you give us any examples 00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:39.129 of some that you remember seeing or experiencing 00:16:39.129 --> 00:16:42.590 in that review? Yeah. I saw a lot of acts of 00:16:42.590 --> 00:16:46.049 service that I had done over the years. Everything's 00:16:46.049 --> 00:16:50.490 so fast. The time is just so different. What 00:16:50.490 --> 00:16:55.169 I'm seeing is almost like clips. I don't know 00:16:55.169 --> 00:16:57.610 how to explain it than that. For me, what was 00:16:57.610 --> 00:17:02.649 slow and what was moving was the hugs. I remember 00:17:02.649 --> 00:17:05.329 just like that's how love was being shown a lot 00:17:05.329 --> 00:17:10.059 to me. My opinion is I believe that God shows 00:17:10.059 --> 00:17:13.619 everybody in their experiences how you will understand 00:17:13.619 --> 00:17:17.900 it so for me, you know love love meant hugs and 00:17:17.900 --> 00:17:21.059 support and People having your back and it was 00:17:21.059 --> 00:17:24.119 just for me. It was more of what I was showing 00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:27.240 people They were giving back because of what 00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:30.519 I was giving does that make sense? Yeah, and 00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:33.269 what are you feeling during all of this? Oh, 00:17:33.730 --> 00:17:37.890 unconditional love and joy and the peace. I don't 00:17:37.890 --> 00:17:41.890 think I had ever felt that kind of peace ever. 00:17:42.609 --> 00:17:44.470 A lot of people are worried that this is going 00:17:44.470 --> 00:17:48.789 to be some kind of judgmental shame, how dare 00:17:48.789 --> 00:17:51.789 you, this kind of stuff. But life reviews aren't 00:17:51.789 --> 00:17:55.930 that way. Although some people report that they 00:17:55.930 --> 00:17:58.130 remember some things that they had done wrong 00:17:58.130 --> 00:18:01.519 in a way that they hurt another person. But it 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:03.880 still was not associated with guilt and shame. 00:18:04.420 --> 00:18:07.200 It was just a learning type of experience. Did 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:09.259 you have any of those too? Because you said you 00:18:09.259 --> 00:18:12.059 only had positive ones. Yeah, well, and I found 00:18:12.059 --> 00:18:15.500 out later when I did a hypnosis session, why. 00:18:16.180 --> 00:18:19.339 All right, jump into the hypnosis. Okay, I was 00:18:19.339 --> 00:18:23.240 like, I want to tell you. Okay, so I go to have 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:26.839 this hypnosis session and the first place I end 00:18:26.839 --> 00:18:30.819 up being being in here was where I didn't remember 00:18:30.819 --> 00:18:35.039 from my NDE. So I was in this what I call the 00:18:35.039 --> 00:18:37.839 in between. It was in dark and it wasn't light. 00:18:38.019 --> 00:18:40.920 And so the darks on the right side and the less 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:44.279 of the light side. And I'm seeing all that matter 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:47.720 that I saw in my NDE of the light. But now it's 00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:51.180 like shadowy. It's it's I wasn't scared. I didn't 00:18:51.180 --> 00:18:54.900 feel evil things around me. I just I remember 00:18:54.900 --> 00:18:58.269 I felt confusion. I felt why why am I here? It 00:18:58.269 --> 00:19:00.869 was just weird to be stuck in this in -between. 00:19:01.509 --> 00:19:04.849 I remember looking off on the right side, but 00:19:04.849 --> 00:19:07.609 way off in the distance in front of me was a 00:19:07.609 --> 00:19:11.029 mountain that had one eye on it. And I remember 00:19:11.029 --> 00:19:13.609 thinking that was really weird that I saw that. 00:19:13.829 --> 00:19:16.210 And so I saw it twice. When I saw it the second 00:19:16.210 --> 00:19:19.230 time, I remember saying to myself, all right, 00:19:19.369 --> 00:19:21.819 noted. Obviously, I'm supposed to see this. I 00:19:21.819 --> 00:19:23.799 don't know why you're looking at me, but whatever. 00:19:24.319 --> 00:19:26.940 So there was that experience. And then the hypnotist 00:19:26.940 --> 00:19:30.460 said, is the matter, is there a person there? 00:19:30.500 --> 00:19:32.619 And I said, I don't know. And so he basically 00:19:32.619 --> 00:19:35.759 kept saying, can you try to hold the energy? 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:38.539 bring it together when it's swirling around and 00:19:38.539 --> 00:19:41.200 it would swirl around and then some of them would 00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:44.059 they form into a heart and the heart would would 00:19:44.059 --> 00:19:46.299 go towards the light like everyone's attracted 00:19:46.299 --> 00:19:48.740 to light and and i remember thinking that was 00:19:48.740 --> 00:19:52.160 that was really really neat to see and then he 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:54.579 said hold that energy there and so i did and 00:19:54.579 --> 00:19:56.900 then i'd hold it and it would disperse and i'd 00:19:56.900 --> 00:19:59.779 hold it and it would disperse and he's just just 00:19:59.779 --> 00:20:02.660 keep trying to hold it is it a person yes It's 00:20:02.660 --> 00:20:06.339 an entity. Okay. So in hypnosis, I don't know 00:20:06.339 --> 00:20:08.180 if people know this or not, but a lot of times 00:20:08.180 --> 00:20:10.099 whoever you're having a challenge with or working 00:20:10.099 --> 00:20:13.019 on a problem, they have them become you so that 00:20:13.019 --> 00:20:15.079 the hypnotist can speak to them and find out 00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:17.400 how do we resolve this. And I knew all that. 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:20.059 I was trained. So I knew all that. I wasn't afraid 00:20:20.059 --> 00:20:21.900 at all. I mean, I thought about it later and 00:20:21.900 --> 00:20:24.180 I thought, why would I want to become an entity? 00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:28.279 But it wasn't a fearful thing. So he has him 00:20:28.279 --> 00:20:31.259 become me. And he says, when I count backwards 00:20:31.259 --> 00:20:33.829 from three, to one, you're going to tell me your 00:20:33.829 --> 00:20:38.710 name." He says, three, two, one, and I blurt 00:20:38.710 --> 00:20:43.710 out Darby. I'm still listening to all this, so 00:20:43.710 --> 00:20:46.250 I know what's going on. I don't even know where 00:20:46.250 --> 00:20:49.490 that name came from. Interestingly enough, three 00:20:49.490 --> 00:20:52.329 times in the month after that, I heard that name, 00:20:52.329 --> 00:20:55.630 Darby. That was interesting. He talked to Darby. 00:20:55.710 --> 00:20:58.210 Darby didn't have any connection to me. Darby 00:20:58.210 --> 00:21:02.259 wanted my light. Remember when I felt kidnapped 00:21:02.259 --> 00:21:04.440 and never could figure out why I felt kidnapped 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:08.779 well Darby came and intervened Jokingly, I always 00:21:08.779 --> 00:21:11.900 thought my theory was I probably all have a guide 00:21:11.900 --> 00:21:14.380 and they all have to learn their jobs So my guide 00:21:14.380 --> 00:21:16.720 must have been in training and he took me before 00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:19.119 he was supposed to so I know I kind of thought 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:21.680 that well I wasn't that far off because in the 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:25.809 hypnosis session Darby was an entity, he wasn't 00:21:25.809 --> 00:21:28.230 my guide. He was an entity that took me because 00:21:28.230 --> 00:21:31.569 he wanted my light. So he brought me there and 00:21:31.569 --> 00:21:35.029 I had to have a spiritual intervention to get 00:21:35.029 --> 00:21:39.329 back on course. So he just he said, I can't go 00:21:39.329 --> 00:21:43.009 to the light and I can't have my own, so I want 00:21:43.009 --> 00:21:46.049 hers. And this banter went back and forth with 00:21:46.049 --> 00:21:48.329 the hypnotist and him. And, well, you know, you're 00:21:48.329 --> 00:21:51.130 stealing that from her. That's her light. That's 00:21:51.130 --> 00:21:53.589 hers to have, not yours. And yes, they went back 00:21:53.589 --> 00:21:55.650 and forth for a while till finally he wouldn't 00:21:55.650 --> 00:21:59.809 release me until the light was coming to get 00:21:59.809 --> 00:22:03.910 me. So I remember my eyes are closed. I'm feeling 00:22:03.910 --> 00:22:08.069 the heat and more the heat from how bright it 00:22:08.069 --> 00:22:11.200 was. And I remember Ah, this is the bright that 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:13.900 I felt at that concert, you know, and I remember 00:22:13.900 --> 00:22:16.900 having it come and he said, it's coming together 00:22:16.900 --> 00:22:19.799 and I'm not going to be able to stop it. So ultimately 00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:24.059 he finally releases me so I can go to have my 00:22:24.059 --> 00:22:27.819 own light. And when I walk forward, there's this 00:22:27.819 --> 00:22:30.819 tree there and the tree like split. So almost 00:22:30.819 --> 00:22:32.859 like a fork in the road for me. Like I could 00:22:32.859 --> 00:22:36.039 go to the dark side or the light side. And of 00:22:36.039 --> 00:22:39.900 course I chose a light, but the tree gave me 00:22:39.900 --> 00:22:43.660 so much calmness and peace because my retreat 00:22:43.660 --> 00:22:46.900 R &R company that I had just incorporated and 00:22:46.900 --> 00:22:50.019 everything, when I was doing the branding for 00:22:50.019 --> 00:22:53.200 it over those two years, I knew it had to have 00:22:53.200 --> 00:22:56.599 a tree in the logo. And when the gentleman that 00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:00.400 created it came back, it had 11 leaves and 11 00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:03.130 roots to it. I never had him change one thing. 00:23:03.549 --> 00:23:06.130 I later interviewed him about what his thought 00:23:06.130 --> 00:23:08.990 process was when he was making it because I thought 00:23:08.990 --> 00:23:13.930 that was not by mistake. So 1111, my release 00:23:13.930 --> 00:23:17.710 date from the hospital was 1111, even my birthday 00:23:17.710 --> 00:23:20.730 is 11. So there was just all these things and 00:23:20.730 --> 00:23:23.809 it just, what it was was another, I felt what 00:23:23.809 --> 00:23:27.230 I would call God gift that you created that logo 00:23:27.230 --> 00:23:29.710 and you didn't even remember this from your NDE. 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:33.220 Well done. That's how it felt. It's like, yes. 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:36.559 So that made me really happy to see that. So 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:39.660 then I get over to the light and all of that 00:23:39.660 --> 00:23:41.880 matter floating around over there, of course, 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:45.319 is light now, but now there's a bunch like pink 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:48.180 into it, like a pink. It reminded me just a pink 00:23:48.180 --> 00:23:51.539 court hearts. That was the second. So I was told 00:23:51.539 --> 00:23:53.880 not to partner with the guy on the retreat company. 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:56.079 And then I was told to start this nonprofit, 00:23:56.339 --> 00:23:59.190 which I had done both by this time. I saw the 00:23:59.190 --> 00:24:01.369 hearts, and when we had a fundraiser for the 00:24:01.369 --> 00:24:04.289 nonprofit, our first gala, in the little gift 00:24:04.289 --> 00:24:07.730 bag that I gave everybody, intuitively I knew 00:24:07.730 --> 00:24:10.849 I needed to put a rose -colored heart in each 00:24:10.849 --> 00:24:14.670 one, quartz. No one questioned it. I didn't even 00:24:14.670 --> 00:24:17.410 give it much thought. Same with the logo. I just 00:24:17.410 --> 00:24:20.069 knew I needed to do that. And I put everyone, 00:24:20.170 --> 00:24:22.509 everyone had one of those in their bag. And I 00:24:22.509 --> 00:24:24.609 remember when I saw those and realized those 00:24:24.609 --> 00:24:26.529 are the, that's that matter, and it's forming 00:24:26.529 --> 00:24:29.950 hearts and now they're pink. Again, it was like, 00:24:30.009 --> 00:24:33.309 wow, you did that. You realized you needed to 00:24:33.309 --> 00:24:35.890 do that because it is all about love. And at 00:24:35.890 --> 00:24:39.289 that moment, the message that I forgot about, 00:24:39.450 --> 00:24:42.829 so in the live review, when it was all about 00:24:42.829 --> 00:24:45.450 love, well, sure, of course, heaven's all about 00:24:45.450 --> 00:24:48.670 love. But I didn't get the rest of it. And when 00:24:48.670 --> 00:24:52.549 I was given that, it shifted a lot of my perception 00:24:52.549 --> 00:24:55.210 about the crazy two years I had just been through, 00:24:55.390 --> 00:24:58.450 which I really needed at the time. And I needed 00:24:58.450 --> 00:25:02.910 that hope. Basically, the message was, love them 00:25:02.910 --> 00:25:05.950 where they're at. And if you think, if I would 00:25:05.950 --> 00:25:08.630 have remembered all of that, it would have changed 00:25:08.630 --> 00:25:10.769 my reactions and the way I dealt with those two 00:25:10.769 --> 00:25:12.829 years. I wouldn't have had all those lessons 00:25:12.829 --> 00:25:15.509 that I had. A lot of those lessons were for the 00:25:15.509 --> 00:25:17.490 philanthropy work I'm supposed to do in the future. 00:25:17.829 --> 00:25:21.930 They were to show me a corrupt system of people 00:25:21.930 --> 00:25:25.630 and... situations and I had attorneys involved, 00:25:25.869 --> 00:25:27.970 I had grandkids involved, I mean it was ugly. 00:25:28.930 --> 00:25:31.509 And learning all those things from that experience, 00:25:31.730 --> 00:25:34.049 I was grateful. I had gratitude and I thought, 00:25:34.369 --> 00:25:37.289 wow, thank you for not giving me that message 00:25:37.289 --> 00:25:42.210 until now. And then I was told from the hypnotist, 00:25:42.390 --> 00:25:45.349 which I know were not his words, he said, more 00:25:45.349 --> 00:25:48.109 will be revealed to you when the time is right. 00:25:48.329 --> 00:25:51.690 And that brought me so much peace because I usually 00:25:51.690 --> 00:25:53.869 want to know everything and I don't like surprises. 00:25:54.569 --> 00:25:57.549 And I was like, okay. I was just like, and it's 00:25:57.549 --> 00:26:01.170 been kind of nice to live my life since then, 00:26:01.289 --> 00:26:03.690 knowing more will be revealed. That's exciting 00:26:03.690 --> 00:26:05.630 for me. I probably couldn't have handled everything 00:26:05.630 --> 00:26:08.349 I would have had and would have remembered. Back 00:26:08.349 --> 00:26:12.109 to the life review. That's where I questioned, 00:26:12.670 --> 00:26:15.130 why am I only seeing? I mean, I'm not complaining 00:26:15.130 --> 00:26:17.369 I'm seeing good, but why am I only seeing good? 00:26:17.690 --> 00:26:21.349 The message was said to me. because this is what 00:26:21.349 --> 00:26:25.130 mattered. And that just, oh, made my heart happy. 00:26:25.250 --> 00:26:27.609 I thought, you know, you're right. I can be judged 00:26:27.609 --> 00:26:32.210 on all the bad things I did, okay, maybe, but 00:26:32.210 --> 00:26:34.210 God is a God of love and maybe He just didn't 00:26:34.210 --> 00:26:36.710 want me to see all that. I didn't need to relive 00:26:36.710 --> 00:26:39.230 it. I knew what I had done. Why does He have 00:26:39.230 --> 00:26:42.690 to show me? If He shows me the good, I felt like 00:26:42.690 --> 00:26:45.029 that was just another healing part of the last 00:26:45.029 --> 00:26:48.279 two years for me to feel like. You're right. 00:26:48.460 --> 00:26:50.819 And we all need to just love people where they're 00:26:50.819 --> 00:26:53.680 at, because He showed me in that, that is what 00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:56.400 matters. I'm just trying to soak all of that 00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:59.960 in. I love that. Thank you. You used the term 00:26:59.960 --> 00:27:02.319 spiritual intervention. What did you mean by 00:27:02.319 --> 00:27:05.400 that exactly? Well, that's the words that came 00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:09.220 to me later when I put the pieces together. So 00:27:09.220 --> 00:27:13.160 I just put the pieces together of, I had the 00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:15.380 near death and I knew Darby got me, but I just 00:27:15.380 --> 00:27:19.509 put like this year, That Darby was who took me 00:27:19.509 --> 00:27:22.150 from the hospital I don't know why I didn't connect 00:27:22.150 --> 00:27:25.269 that and then until I did and that was another 00:27:25.269 --> 00:27:27.589 thing More will be revealed to you. I felt like 00:27:27.589 --> 00:27:30.190 when I was ready to understand that's what happened 00:27:30.190 --> 00:27:33.329 That's when I knew that so he took me from the 00:27:33.329 --> 00:27:35.309 hospital brought me to the in -between to get 00:27:35.309 --> 00:27:38.130 my light The words that just came to me was a 00:27:38.130 --> 00:27:40.089 spiritual intervention because that's what it 00:27:40.089 --> 00:27:42.630 felt like when the light came and was hitting 00:27:42.630 --> 00:27:45.630 my face And that's when he had to release me 00:27:45.630 --> 00:27:48.029 because it was coming to get me. And I felt like 00:27:48.029 --> 00:27:50.230 that's what it felt like was a spiritual intervention. 00:27:50.329 --> 00:27:53.210 They had to come back and say, no, no, you're 00:27:53.210 --> 00:27:55.809 not. You're not supposed to be doing this. That's 00:27:55.809 --> 00:27:58.309 why you're in the in between. She gets to go 00:27:58.309 --> 00:27:59.990 to the light. You know, you need to release her. 00:28:00.009 --> 00:28:03.109 So that's just what it felt like to me. OK. And 00:28:03.109 --> 00:28:06.640 with your life review, did you? Specifically 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:09.960 ask somebody, why am I not remembering these 00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:12.579 other things? Or was it just sort of a thought? 00:28:13.059 --> 00:28:15.700 I want to go down this path for a second. Yeah, 00:28:15.819 --> 00:28:18.779 totally a thought. I don't ever remember speaking. 00:28:19.079 --> 00:28:22.019 Everything was in my mind. But the answer came 00:28:22.019 --> 00:28:25.299 as a thought also? Yeah, instantly, because this 00:28:25.299 --> 00:28:27.680 is what mattered. Yeah. Because this is what 00:28:27.680 --> 00:28:31.980 mattered. A lot of religions have a belief in 00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:35.019 repentance. Is that something that you believe 00:28:35.019 --> 00:28:39.420 in? I do. Yeah, I do. Do you think those things 00:28:39.420 --> 00:28:42.319 weren't there because you had repented of them? 00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:45.720 That's such an interesting thought. It's possible. 00:28:46.259 --> 00:28:49.500 I mean, my first gut feeling on that question 00:28:49.500 --> 00:28:52.279 would be, you know, I just got the message 11 00:28:52.279 --> 00:28:54.819 where they're at. So it's like it was showing 00:28:54.819 --> 00:28:57.779 me how many times I had done that. And that's 00:28:57.779 --> 00:29:01.319 what mattered. So maybe. I'm sure there's plenty 00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:04.680 I haven't repented of. How does love them where 00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:07.059 they're at apply to things today? Because to 00:29:07.059 --> 00:29:10.400 me, I love that. It sounds like just a very non 00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:13.119 -judgmental way to live. Well, the funny thing 00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:16.039 is I don't even know if those words are at proper 00:29:16.039 --> 00:29:18.900 English. Love them. I don't know if they are. 00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:21.279 I'm from a family and we say funny things for 00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:24.059 different words, just how we were raised. I thought 00:29:24.059 --> 00:29:26.299 about it later and I thought that could be another 00:29:26.299 --> 00:29:29.599 way it was said to me so I would understand it. 00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:33.279 I don't know. But I've told that story. I had 00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:35.880 a gentleman earlier this year that I was on a 00:29:35.880 --> 00:29:38.859 business cruise and we stayed up quite late in 00:29:38.859 --> 00:29:41.400 the evening having me share the story with him 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:45.279 and he was a therapist. He had a lot of issues 00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:49.410 and almost hate in his heart for people that 00:29:49.410 --> 00:29:53.170 were doing really bad things in the world. And 00:29:53.170 --> 00:29:55.430 he said, when I told him that message, the next 00:29:55.430 --> 00:29:59.430 day he messaged me and he said, you have changed 00:29:59.430 --> 00:30:02.450 my life by those words. He said, I am really 00:30:02.450 --> 00:30:05.450 looking at things differently and the perception 00:30:05.450 --> 00:30:07.890 and how I felt. You're right. It's not my place 00:30:07.890 --> 00:30:11.200 to judge. This was like earlier this year and 00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:12.799 it's been months and months now. And he just 00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:14.940 messaged me the other day and was again saying, 00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:18.059 I'll never forget that conversation we had. And 00:30:18.059 --> 00:30:21.519 that made me so happy to think that those words, 00:30:21.619 --> 00:30:24.140 I mean, they've changed my life, no doubt, but 00:30:24.140 --> 00:30:26.640 it takes the judgment away. We have a people, 00:30:26.819 --> 00:30:28.960 it's who they are. It brings in the compassion 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:32.779 and that love. If we just remember those words, 00:30:33.019 --> 00:30:35.559 they're simple words. I know you also wanted 00:30:35.559 --> 00:30:38.180 to share some about out -of -body experiences 00:30:38.180 --> 00:30:42.319 and spiritually transformative experiences and 00:30:42.319 --> 00:30:45.480 I'm using the full length terms because OBE and 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:48.599 STE is not known by everybody. Is there anything 00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:51.700 else with the NDE that you want to talk about 00:30:51.700 --> 00:30:54.720 before we move on to those? No, I think that 00:30:54.720 --> 00:30:57.440 pretty much summed it up. I was just glad I got 00:30:57.440 --> 00:30:59.940 the rest of the story and more to come is, I 00:30:59.940 --> 00:31:02.700 guess, how I would put it. Out of body experiences, 00:31:03.079 --> 00:31:05.690 I can just share. I had lots of them. And I really 00:31:05.690 --> 00:31:07.890 haven't talked to people or listened to people's 00:31:07.890 --> 00:31:10.049 out -of -body experiences much. And I didn't 00:31:10.049 --> 00:31:12.849 do even listen to any NDEs or anything for about 00:31:12.849 --> 00:31:14.869 a year after I got out of the hospital. I was 00:31:14.869 --> 00:31:17.990 in my own turmoil for one. But for two, I felt 00:31:17.990 --> 00:31:22.289 like I had so much missing those gaps that I 00:31:22.289 --> 00:31:24.509 didn't want it to cloud by listening to other 00:31:24.509 --> 00:31:26.869 people's stories. I felt like now I listen to 00:31:26.869 --> 00:31:30.150 them and it helps me remember things. But then 00:31:30.150 --> 00:31:32.289 I felt like it would have tainted what I knew 00:31:32.289 --> 00:31:36.160 and what I felt out of body. I didn't know anything 00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:40.079 about, again. Most of the time, ironically, I 00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:43.660 would go to this town in Perowen, Utah. Do you 00:31:43.660 --> 00:31:45.700 know where that is, since you're in Utah? I do. 00:31:45.759 --> 00:31:48.579 It's not far from Cedar City, right? Right, which 00:31:48.579 --> 00:31:51.299 is so ironic that that's where I ended up a lot. 00:31:51.720 --> 00:31:54.200 So the funny thing is, I would take my bed with 00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:56.220 me, because I think I thought I wouldn't get 00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:59.759 it back. And sometimes, some days that I would 00:31:59.759 --> 00:32:02.769 leave, I was like in a ... shipping container, 00:32:02.970 --> 00:32:05.829 like that was my hospital room in my mind, and 00:32:05.829 --> 00:32:07.390 an ambulance, don't ask me why an ambulance, 00:32:07.630 --> 00:32:09.569 they would hook up to it and they would haul 00:32:09.569 --> 00:32:12.309 me off on my out -of -body journey where I needed 00:32:12.309 --> 00:32:14.309 to go because I knew I was sick and I couldn't 00:32:14.309 --> 00:32:17.569 get there on my own. So I had that happen a lot. 00:32:17.690 --> 00:32:19.589 At the end of the day, they would back it in 00:32:19.589 --> 00:32:21.970 at the hospital. It was like a wing, you know, 00:32:22.029 --> 00:32:24.809 to the hospital. put me back in there so I'd 00:32:24.809 --> 00:32:27.109 have medical care at night. So that happened 00:32:27.109 --> 00:32:30.490 many times. And I would go to Perwin, Utah, which 00:32:30.490 --> 00:32:33.529 there is a home there that's now the city owns 00:32:33.529 --> 00:32:36.349 and it's a museum. And I knew I had been there 00:32:36.349 --> 00:32:38.130 with my kids when they were little. We did a 00:32:38.130 --> 00:32:40.970 cousin's camp because I knew it was a relative. 00:32:41.190 --> 00:32:44.250 I thought maybe a great, great grandfather. I 00:32:44.250 --> 00:32:46.730 found out later it was three greats, great, great, 00:32:46.730 --> 00:32:50.009 great grandfather's home, Jesse M. Smith. So 00:32:50.009 --> 00:32:53.099 I was like, okay, I don't know why I'm here. 00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:57.039 But I went back there a couple years later. And 00:32:57.039 --> 00:32:59.839 I remember they had remodeled it a couple times. 00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:02.559 But I remember this creepy staircase that was 00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:04.859 kind of a spiral staircase that had it went to 00:33:04.859 --> 00:33:07.740 a dirt floor at the basement. It was still there. 00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:09.359 And I remember that being a little bit of an 00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:10.980 eerie feeling. You know, when you actually see 00:33:10.980 --> 00:33:13.700 something that you saw in real life, it's just 00:33:13.700 --> 00:33:15.960 it was interesting. I found out my grandfather 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:18.339 didn't live in that home very much. He was he 00:33:18.339 --> 00:33:22.970 was a missionary for the church and so he was 00:33:22.970 --> 00:33:25.430 gone a lot. So I don't know if they were practicing. 00:33:25.450 --> 00:33:27.410 I think they might've been practicing polygamy 00:33:27.410 --> 00:33:29.869 still then. This would have been 165 years ago. 00:33:30.210 --> 00:33:32.410 So I haven't looked at all the timelines, but 00:33:32.410 --> 00:33:34.529 that's when the house was built is about that. 00:33:34.549 --> 00:33:36.910 So that's how far back in time I would go. So 00:33:36.910 --> 00:33:39.130 there were some interesting things and they weren't 00:33:39.130 --> 00:33:41.910 all good. There were some creepy things and I 00:33:41.910 --> 00:33:45.019 don't know why I was seeing a lot of those. For 00:33:45.019 --> 00:33:47.640 instance, there was a really scary time when 00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:49.920 I was in, I think it was almost like a little, 00:33:50.259 --> 00:33:53.400 a school room. And I remember there was some 00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:56.640 evil in there somehow. And I knew, I knew something 00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:59.599 was going to happen. So like I reversed time 00:33:59.599 --> 00:34:04.119 and I remember standing by the door and I remember 00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:06.359 something was going to break. I remember standing 00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:09.300 there and this guy and I, if I saw him today, 00:34:09.300 --> 00:34:12.559 I would know it was him. Like almost looked a 00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:15.440 little bit. like a Jewish nose and just dark, 00:34:15.659 --> 00:34:19.480 just very, very dark. He was over on my left 00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:22.699 shoulder as he walked in that door. And I remember 00:34:22.699 --> 00:34:24.800 I froze there thinking, I don't want him to see 00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:26.980 me. I don't want him to see me. And I knew that 00:34:26.980 --> 00:34:28.900 something was going to fall off one of the shelves 00:34:28.900 --> 00:34:32.039 and break. And so I remember counting, you know, 00:34:32.219 --> 00:34:33.860 counting down the one that was happened. And 00:34:33.860 --> 00:34:36.719 when it happened, I remember his Oh, so clear. 00:34:36.860 --> 00:34:39.300 It creeps me out. You can talk about it. I remember 00:34:39.300 --> 00:34:41.639 him right there. I could like I could feel his 00:34:41.639 --> 00:34:44.420 breath. He was so close to me and it broke. And 00:34:44.420 --> 00:34:49.159 I remember him shaking his head and going. And 00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:51.940 I just remember being so creeped out and I got 00:34:51.940 --> 00:34:53.820 out of there as fast as I could. I mean, that 00:34:53.820 --> 00:34:56.179 was just like one thing. I did go in present 00:34:56.179 --> 00:34:59.119 time a couple of times to current events and 00:34:59.119 --> 00:35:01.579 stuff. But anyway, those weren't really significant 00:35:01.579 --> 00:35:03.900 or anything. Did these all happen while you were 00:35:03.900 --> 00:35:07.460 in the hospital? Yeah, they were, I believe those 00:35:07.460 --> 00:35:11.480 were probably before my near death and then maybe 00:35:11.480 --> 00:35:15.500 after. My STE, the spiritual transformation experience 00:35:15.500 --> 00:35:19.019 was the last thing I had. Okay, I just want to 00:35:19.019 --> 00:35:22.960 throw in one fun fact here. But I had ancestors 00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:27.360 in Parawan in the 1800s too. Probably related. 00:35:27.880 --> 00:35:31.579 We're probably related or our ancestors were 00:35:31.579 --> 00:35:34.320 friends or something. Anyway, we'll talk about 00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:39.179 that later. Alright, STE. Okay. So my STE was 00:35:39.179 --> 00:35:41.619 the last experience that I had in the hospital. 00:35:42.280 --> 00:35:45.380 It was the most, it was the quickest story to 00:35:45.380 --> 00:35:49.280 tell, but it was very powerful for me. I mean, 00:35:49.340 --> 00:35:52.800 it was a matter of life or death. So a little 00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:54.960 pre -story, I have a cousin, a little bit more 00:35:54.960 --> 00:35:57.920 like a sister than a cousin. and she lives out 00:35:57.920 --> 00:36:01.179 of state. She text a message to one of my sisters 00:36:01.179 --> 00:36:03.880 that was in the hospital with me that day. She 00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:06.099 had been praying for my husband and I's wellbeing 00:36:06.099 --> 00:36:08.980 and she had a really spiritual experience and 00:36:08.980 --> 00:36:11.320 all these spirits came around her, surrounded 00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:14.340 her that had passed on. She asked who they were 00:36:14.340 --> 00:36:17.260 because that's who she is. And she got the names 00:36:17.260 --> 00:36:19.460 one by one. And she said, I normally wouldn't 00:36:19.460 --> 00:36:22.780 share this kind of an experience on a text. But 00:36:22.780 --> 00:36:24.940 I know Holly's not doing very well right now, 00:36:24.940 --> 00:36:27.599 and I think she needs to hear this. And I think 00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:29.480 she was right, because that was the beginning 00:36:29.480 --> 00:36:32.920 of what happened. They must have put me back 00:36:32.920 --> 00:36:35.480 in a coma. Sometimes I was in an induced, sometimes 00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:37.460 paralyzed. I think they were always induced, 00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:39.579 but sometimes I was a paralyzed coma, sometimes 00:36:39.579 --> 00:36:42.579 just to be there, be still so my lungs would 00:36:42.579 --> 00:36:46.019 heal. And the medications, I mean, they put you 00:36:46.019 --> 00:36:48.300 on, I guess if you're in pain, you'll come out 00:36:48.300 --> 00:36:50.679 of your coma. So they keep you on a lot of drugs. 00:36:51.219 --> 00:36:55.280 I remember going back and I remember a lot of 00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:59.420 my prayers at that point were, you know, this 00:36:59.420 --> 00:37:02.840 isn't very much fun. I'm not liking this situation. 00:37:03.320 --> 00:37:05.219 If you're not going to get me better, get me 00:37:05.219 --> 00:37:07.820 out of here. I'm ready. I was never afraid to 00:37:07.820 --> 00:37:10.739 die, but I was pretty much done with suffering. 00:37:11.420 --> 00:37:16.659 I was really upset that my cousin got that experience, 00:37:16.800 --> 00:37:18.739 kind of like the civil rivalry. Why did she get 00:37:18.739 --> 00:37:20.940 it and I didn't? I was having that attitude. 00:37:21.179 --> 00:37:23.880 I just said, it's not fair. I'm the one suffering. 00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:26.579 Why did she get to experience that? I think I 00:37:26.579 --> 00:37:29.699 was upset that I wasn't having those kinds of 00:37:29.699 --> 00:37:32.340 experiences. I was having my crazy out of body 00:37:32.340 --> 00:37:35.980 experiences. Next thing I know, my mom comes 00:37:35.980 --> 00:37:38.800 to me on the side of my bed. She's on my right 00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:42.159 side of my bed. She had just passed away about 00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:44.239 a year and a half before from Parkinson's. She 00:37:44.239 --> 00:37:46.800 had suffered for a long time. She was with me 00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:49.559 a lot in the hospital, but this time when she 00:37:49.559 --> 00:37:52.739 came, she said to me, she said, it's not your 00:37:52.739 --> 00:37:56.280 time to go and you need to fight. It was that 00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:59.369 like mom telling you what to do. It was with 00:37:59.369 --> 00:38:03.110 love, but it was like your mom would tell you 00:38:03.110 --> 00:38:05.949 to do something. It was like that. As soon as 00:38:05.949 --> 00:38:08.650 she said the word fight, I remember a little 00:38:08.650 --> 00:38:11.449 cringe in myself because I don't love that word. 00:38:12.050 --> 00:38:14.530 All above my bed, so I'm laying in my bed now, 00:38:14.969 --> 00:38:19.110 and all above my bed come all of these past relatives, 00:38:19.269 --> 00:38:21.530 all in white. I could see them from the waist 00:38:21.530 --> 00:38:25.889 up. and they all came all above me. Grandparents 00:38:25.889 --> 00:38:29.750 and aunts, uncles, my brother had died in a horrific 00:38:29.750 --> 00:38:33.050 car accident and his wife separately in a horrific 00:38:33.050 --> 00:38:36.349 car accident. I had just lost a grandbaby six 00:38:36.349 --> 00:38:38.869 months before. She was two days old when she 00:38:38.869 --> 00:38:41.550 passed away, but she was an adult and I knew 00:38:41.550 --> 00:38:45.289 it was her. And that was really special. And 00:38:45.289 --> 00:38:49.519 so they start chanting, fight, fight. fight. 00:38:50.099 --> 00:38:53.900 And every time that word would get said, a whole 00:38:53.900 --> 00:38:56.219 nother group, now in street clothes, which were 00:38:56.219 --> 00:38:59.539 living people, my siblings, my kids, my husband, 00:38:59.900 --> 00:39:02.579 they all appeared. And then every time they just 00:39:02.579 --> 00:39:05.159 keep chanting that just more and more people, 00:39:05.400 --> 00:39:08.119 I would see more friends and more relatives. 00:39:08.380 --> 00:39:10.260 And it just went on and on and on. I would say 00:39:10.260 --> 00:39:13.699 thousands of people finally appeared in that. 00:39:14.239 --> 00:39:19.329 And in that moment, I knew I'd live. It was like, 00:39:19.809 --> 00:39:21.650 well, how could I not? Look at all the support 00:39:21.650 --> 00:39:24.789 I have. And I realized later that all those people 00:39:24.789 --> 00:39:27.289 I didn't know that were there, chanting fight, 00:39:28.210 --> 00:39:32.210 were all those prayerless. I mean, we were still 00:39:32.210 --> 00:39:34.860 kind of shut down from COVID. people were hanging 00:39:34.860 --> 00:39:36.539 onto social media. They were definitely hanging 00:39:36.539 --> 00:39:38.260 on to my social media. I had friends all over 00:39:38.260 --> 00:39:40.420 the world. That was the only way they knew if 00:39:40.420 --> 00:39:43.539 I was living and my sisters would post updates, 00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:47.699 I would get three or 400 comments on each post. 00:39:47.900 --> 00:39:50.079 I mean, it was just the love that was shown at 00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:52.659 later. I printed all that out because you have 00:39:52.659 --> 00:39:55.079 a bad day and you go read something like that. 00:39:55.079 --> 00:39:58.320 It shifts you really quick. It was just knowing 00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:02.800 that you have all these people had my back. And 00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:04.800 I knew I'd live after that. It was like so clear 00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:08.119 to me that, okay, this isn't gonna be easy, but 00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:10.239 I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna fight. That's 00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:12.920 what I've done every day since. That's awesome. 00:40:13.579 --> 00:40:15.280 All right, what's the takeaway from all this? 00:40:15.500 --> 00:40:18.219 How has it changed your life? It's interesting 00:40:18.219 --> 00:40:20.739 because I still feel like I'm the same person 00:40:20.739 --> 00:40:24.179 in some aspects and then so different in others. 00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:27.199 I would say I was religious, spiritual, and now 00:40:27.199 --> 00:40:29.889 I feel like I'm spiritual, religious. If that 00:40:29.889 --> 00:40:32.789 makes sense, it is shifted that for me. We're 00:40:32.789 --> 00:40:36.789 just men and women here and having an earthly 00:40:36.789 --> 00:40:40.690 experience. And I feel like I don't consider 00:40:40.690 --> 00:40:44.429 time to be as of essence as I like. I'm not. 00:40:44.550 --> 00:40:48.070 I don't push like I used to as a lot slower health 00:40:48.070 --> 00:40:52.630 wise, obviously. But I just feel like this is 00:40:52.630 --> 00:40:55.949 such a small speck of time in the big perspective 00:40:55.949 --> 00:40:59.010 of things. I share with people, I'll probably 00:40:59.010 --> 00:41:01.309 explain it different ways sometimes when I say 00:41:01.309 --> 00:41:04.590 it, but I feel like when we want to know what 00:41:04.590 --> 00:41:08.929 heaven's like, I say one second of heaven is 00:41:08.929 --> 00:41:12.750 like every, every, every good moment, day, time 00:41:12.750 --> 00:41:16.070 period that you had here added up together is 00:41:16.070 --> 00:41:18.469 maybe one second of what you will have up there. 00:41:18.829 --> 00:41:20.670 So think of all the joy you had in your whole 00:41:20.670 --> 00:41:23.969 life experiences you had, and if you could experience 00:41:23.969 --> 00:41:26.409 that in one second. So think about living there. 00:41:26.639 --> 00:41:31.079 as an eternity, I mean, that's how I would explain 00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:33.619 it. I love it. How much fear of death do you 00:41:33.619 --> 00:41:37.219 have? Zero. I mean, I want to live. Obviously, 00:41:37.239 --> 00:41:39.860 even going to my near death telling her to rescind 00:41:39.860 --> 00:41:42.860 my DNR, I obviously knew I was in trouble and 00:41:42.860 --> 00:41:45.500 I wanted to live. I joke to my kids, they're 00:41:45.500 --> 00:41:47.539 all adults now that I can help them better from 00:41:47.539 --> 00:41:49.420 the other side than I can't hear because now 00:41:49.420 --> 00:41:52.119 they don't have to listen to me. But really, 00:41:52.420 --> 00:41:55.190 I have no fear of death. All right, last thing. 00:41:55.230 --> 00:41:57.090 I'm going to let you have the last word here. 00:41:57.630 --> 00:42:01.630 If somebody out there today is really, I don't 00:42:01.630 --> 00:42:04.030 know, really concerned about a loved one that 00:42:04.030 --> 00:42:08.389 they've lost, besides missing that person, gee, 00:42:08.449 --> 00:42:11.289 what has happened to my loved one? Can you help 00:42:11.289 --> 00:42:14.989 fill some of those gaps for them? Just help us 00:42:14.989 --> 00:42:17.949 understand a little bit better. Well, let's think 00:42:17.949 --> 00:42:21.769 of it as a stadium. Well, two things. Let's think 00:42:21.769 --> 00:42:23.809 of it as a stadium where I was and there were 00:42:23.809 --> 00:42:25.849 thousands of people there. None of them were 00:42:25.849 --> 00:42:30.050 living. Whether they were going or coming, I 00:42:30.050 --> 00:42:33.050 don't know. I don't have that answer. But think 00:42:33.050 --> 00:42:35.909 about all that love and support there. And then 00:42:35.909 --> 00:42:37.670 just think about my spiritual transformation 00:42:37.670 --> 00:42:39.849 experience and all the people I saw that were 00:42:39.849 --> 00:42:44.010 wanting me to fight to live. Everybody, everybody 00:42:44.010 --> 00:42:46.969 has that. We all have a team of angels and a 00:42:46.969 --> 00:42:50.150 team of support. Even when we don't feel like 00:42:50.150 --> 00:42:54.389 we do, even when we feel alone, it's there. And 00:42:54.389 --> 00:42:56.570 sometimes we just need to dig a little deeper 00:42:56.570 --> 00:43:00.510 and just fill your heart with love. I think you'll 00:43:00.510 --> 00:43:03.630 find that you won't feel so alone. Thank you. 00:43:03.869 --> 00:43:07.760 Holly, I appreciate your time. And just sharing 00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:10.300 all of this, it can't be that easy to share. 00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:13.539 Hopefully it also makes you feel good. But if 00:43:13.539 --> 00:43:15.820 anybody wants to reach out to you, can we put 00:43:15.820 --> 00:43:18.079 something in the show notes where they can contact 00:43:18.079 --> 00:43:21.460 you? Absolutely. Yeah, thank you. All right, 00:43:21.559 --> 00:43:27.380 we'll do it. Take care. Thanks again for listening 00:43:27.380 --> 00:43:29.840 and sharing this podcast. Don't forget to hit 00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:32.679 the follow or subscribe button and sign up for 00:43:32.679 --> 00:43:35.519 our newsletter at roundtriptest .com. If you 00:43:35.519 --> 00:43:38.099 want to share your near -death experience, or 00:43:38.099 --> 00:43:40.039 if you have questions or comments about the show, 00:43:40.539 --> 00:43:43.619 send an email to eric at roundtripdeath .com. 00:43:43.980 --> 00:43:46.139 Until then, I wish you everything good that you're 00:43:46.139 --> 00:43:48.519 looking for in this life and the next.