From the time that they pronounced me that was
a good 45 minutes They cut my clothes and then
they paddled my heart my heart stopped and I
could see people screaming and crying But I didn't
realize that was actually my physical body because
I was somewhere else The only thing that I could
feel if you can imagine Absolute love and peace
there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was
greeted by people I had known in the past I'm
back home again. Incredibly safe and felt at
home. Welcome, welcome, everybody. And I'd like
to welcome to our show today, Laura Ketledge.
Thank you for joining us. And your name is beautiful.
You and I have just been trying to get it pronounced
correctly. I hope I was close. You're perfect.
Perfect. And thank you for having me today. Well,
it's great to have you and your story has been
out there for a while and I can't believe we're
finally meeting. It's long overdue and people
are going to absolutely love your story and love
you. Before we jump right into it, give us just
a minute. Who's Laura and tell us about you.
Well, I'm not Miss Excitement. I'm just a regular
person. I come from a middle class, educated
family. I was born in New York. I grew up in
the South. I've traveled a lot. I've had a couple
different types of jobs, and I'm at the ripe
old age of 65 now. Join the club. I don't normally
talk about it. Anyway, and you're from Arkansas.
I just moved here. I wanted to retire to a lakeside
community, so I did. Well, I was impressed when
we were talking the other day and you said you'd
just been swimming for two whole hours. It's
like floating relaxing, gabbing with the girls
and just having a good time with a little swimming
actually. All right. I was picturing the triathlete
here getting in five miles or something. I'm
a certified scuba diver, but I've slowed down
and I just swim for fun. That's fantastic. Now
for our listeners that are into horseback riding,
I don't know if you're going to love this story
or get a little scared from this story, but Go
ahead and take us back. This was quite a few
years ago. You had a horseback riding incident
After we talked about that. I want to also just
in case I forget please remind me We want to
talk about why you didn't talk about it for such
a long time But first let's talk about horseback
riding Is this something you had been doing your
whole life or was it your first time? From the
time I was in the cradle. My mother told me that
I lived breathed horses. We lived in the suburbs.
None of my family had a horse, but I talked about
horses constantly. I used to sleep with my toy
horses at night. I just would gravitate towards
horses. I think it was something inborn in me.
How old were you when you first started horseback
riding? My father took me for a few horseback
riding out in the boondocks just a few times
when I was 12 years old. But I'd like to tell
you something, Eric, that happened to me before
the big calamity. Just before my 13th birthday,
I went out with some girlfriends and to a barn
and rode a horse that just took off with me.
It was really above a child's ability. And the
horse went into a hand gallop. And I was just
a little kid. I couldn't stop it. And the horse
ended up hitting the road. And the road was like
hitting a black ice. He spun up. fell on top
of me and crushed me and broke my leg. And it
was a pretty gruesome accident. But just as the
horse was about to land on top of me, I had an
out -of -body experience. And I was about 15
feet behind the horse, watching like a spectator.
It was very shocking, but it also felt natural.
And then it was over, and then the horse crushed
me. Now, I was pretty badly hurt. but I was able
to get up and hop on one leg and call my parents
and go to the hospital. You're going to think
me a masochist, but I wanted to go horseback
riding again and my parents did not like that.
But I didn't have the big accident until I was
19. No, I get it. I broke a leg skiing when I
was 12 years old and all I wanted to do was go
back skiing. It was a little bit terrifying the
first time, but I'm glad that I got back on that
horse. You literally got back on a horse. OK,
so you healed up from that one and then take
us along. What happened after that? Well, I went
for some riding lessons as a teenager, but then,
you know, being a kid took over. And then one
day when I was 19, it was such a beautiful April
day, I thought I'd go run a horse and ride for
the afternoon. So I went to a stable I knew.
very nice people, rented a horse above my abilities.
You know, you think you're indestructible at
19. Spent the afternoon riding and I hooked up
with some other riders and we decided to race
back to the barn. Not the smartest move I ever
made. So the horse was galloping. I was staying
on and all of a sudden he sort of stumbled. It
must have been a gopher haul and I was going
very fast and I knew I was going to get clobbered.
I just knew it. I started going over to the right
of the horse, my right, and I never hit the ground.
I left my body to my own shock and dismay. I
mean, it's pretty terrifying. The accident wasn't
terrifying. Leaving the body was. And then I
went down this dark pit or tunnel. One minute
I'm on a horse. I'm 19 years old, living my life
to the best. The next minute, I'm out of body,
I'm going to this dark pit, and I clearly knew
I was dead. There was no mistaking it. And physically,
how hurt were you? Well, afterwards? Yeah. They
had to resuscitate me and start my heart up again.
I think that was pretty hurt. Okay, we'll come
back to your recovery later. Go ahead and keep
going the way you were with what happened. Well,
Eric, you know... This was nineteen seventy five
i mean i there's no internet. There's no talk
about near -death experience and if you talk
about anything psychic phenomena like leaving
your body when you were twelve years old you
were labeled all i could do. You were labeled
and put in the same category people the chase
ufos the dog down the street is sending you a
message. You know and you believe in ghost you
know you were put in the crazy box so i didn't
tell anybody. about leaving my body when I was
12. I recognized death. I recognized this was
it. And I didn't have any control. I felt like
me. I felt like there were hands, legs, a head.
I wasn't in pain. I don't believe I recognized
breathing at all, but I was still me. And I was
going down this tunnel. And it was like the sides
were very soft and dense at the same time, if
that makes any sense. And it wasn't a claustrophobic
feeling. It was just, zoom, you're going fast.
And I was able to connect with my grandfather.
Now, I have to kind of put my emotions in a box
when I tell this story because I get extremely
emotional when I talk about him. He died when
I was 12. I loved and adored him. and he was
right there waiting for me. So knowing that my
grandfather was there, all of the feelings of
the accident leaving my body just seemed to evaporate
and I was living or conscious of the moment,
you know, that my grandfather was there. Oh,
it was a relief to see him. He still had these
blue, he had these Paul Newman blue eyes. He
was, you know, tall Irish guy. so wonderful.
Just imagine meeting the person you love most
on earth on the other side, and that's where
I was. When you're an adult, you don't think
that you can feel like a 12 -year -old again,
and I felt like a little kid. I was just so relieved
to see him. It's hard to talk about. The best
part was he didn't have the cancer anymore. He
wasn't in pain. He was still older, so he looked
the best version I knew of him like it when I
was like five or six. He didn't look like a young
man. He was very recognizable, to say the least.
And I was kind of thinking to myself, well, he
doesn't have his glasses on, you know? Like,
no, you think about weird stuff to, you know,
what are you supposed to think? Is there a progression
in your questions? So I felt like I asked him
a zillion questions at once and didn't get...
the answers I wanted. But you're not talking
with your mouth, you're talking with your thoughts,
and it's more elegant, and it's more clear, and
it's very honest. I don't think you can lie at
this point, you just kind of get what you give.
But my grandfather was so glad to see me, was
so helpful, he still loved me, and just to know
that he still exists. It's wonderful. Right after
that is when my little adventure started. Would
you like me to tell you about it? Yeah, you know
what? Let me ask you a couple questions if this
is a good place to interject before we move on.
Do you feel like you went someplace else, like
went to heaven or this was just here in some
kind of a different plane? Can you explain that?
Well, I thought about that a lot. At the time
I wasn't thinking, you know, anything intellectual.
I was 19. Let's say I wasn't the brightest kid.
Now, looking back, I know exactly where I went.
I know exactly how this works, sort of like the
superhighway. Think of physical reality, Earth,
the one that we live in. It's a big freaking
universe, and you know, with zillions of planets
and suns. It's on the epidermis of reality. So
you're the farthest most. Inside, After you die,
your body leaves, how do I put this? And it's
like different dimensions or different planes
with a different vibrational level, each plane.
It's more Earth -like the closer to Earth you
are as it goes in. It's more thought reactive,
eventually leading to source. That's what I found.
What I call it heaven, I would call it more the
continuation of existence. It's in the same spot
or it takes the same space. As what we live in
today so it's like going in work i'm not a great
explainer of this eric it's more of a concept.
It's too bad that we don't have that communication
that you were just talking about with your grandfather
because i have a feeling if the meaning could
just. go from you to me without the words, we'd
probably get it a lot better, wouldn't we? Tell
me more about how the communication worked. You
said it wasn't with words. Okay, you know how,
like, I'm talking to you, I'm going to ask you
a question. Well, when you're out of body or
dead, you're thinking in the same logical, I
thought in English, I thought in words, I thought
about my own voice projection. But obviously,
I don't have lungs and the larynx or anything.
But you project the same way automatically. It's
not a lot of thinking that has to be done. And
it feels very natural. And I'd say it was quite
elegant. And you use the term honest. You know,
OK, like I'm talking to you. And Eric, I could
tell you that I'm a 24 -year -old cheerleader
and movie star. Now, I can say those words, but
you know it's a lie, but I can still say those
words. I don't think it's the same when you're
out of body. I think there's no veil where you
can lie or deceive, because you talk with more
than your words. The communication is more of
your spiritual projection. Does that make sense?
Yeah, it does. It just... I don't know pure communication
would have to be completely honest and without
subtext and without. All kinds of baggage that
it often has here you know we may talk to a loved
one that we see every day and we say one thing
but because of the baggage of yesterday and the
day before that. it gets twisted into a little
bit something else and having all that gone so
that we could just have pure communication sounds
wonderful. And at the time, if I was out of body
right this minute, I wouldn't even have the wherewithal
to think of lying. That doesn't exist either.
So, you know, if you're a good person and you're
clear and you're fair, you're going to take that
with you. When you're not such a good person,
I think it'll be a little more difficult. OK.
Thank you for letting me ask those questions.
Go ahead and keep going with what happened next
now in your experience. Well, I was being guided
at this point. I lost track of my grandfather.
I don't know what was he behind me. I don't know,
but I was being guided, but I couldn't see the
guy then like like bubbles or balls. You're seeing
segments of your life. OK, I was 19. I could.
I felt it as a young person. I would. feel very
differently if I was going through it now. So
emotionally, I was still a teenager and I saw
the results of my actions. You know, some not
quite great things I've done as a kid, inconsiderate
kind of rude things. I felt like, felt myself
doing it like I was in it, but I also felt the
other person, the impact to the other person.
So when I wasn't nice to this little girl at
six, I felt her disappointment in me. These weren't
big things, you know, I'm not, I didn't run over
a group of nuns drunk. I mean, these were just
like little slights, little things that, you
know, you're looking back, oh, I could have done
better. And then a few things that weren't so
great. No big crimes or misdemeanors, just, you
know, youthful stupidity. I also saw some things
I was shown, really good things I did that I
didn't think were very big, but they're very
big over there. I wasn't a saint or a sinner.
I was just a normal person getting kind of shown
her life. I didn't like it because I wanted to
do better. It wasn't pleasant. It wasn't a punishment,
but it was more an accountability, I guess. But
it wasn't there to punish me. It was to show
me things. And you know what I really got out
of that? Would you like to know? Yeah, absolutely.
Okay. Sort of the lesson I was shown, you know,
you can go through life being an OK person. You
don't have to go out and try to save the world.
What's important is not to damage another person.
Do not interfere in another person's destiny.
Don't be the roadblock or the hurdle that they
have to jump to get to where they need to be.
You just don't hurt somebody and not the physical
sense is. Let's say your husband and you bake
be rate your wife for twenty years well that
changes the person she could have been and that
changes her destiny. And that's a really big
big no no that's a really big terrible thing
because it all will come back to you. You go
out and you damage people not said this another
shows let's say you work for company. And it
makes a medical device or a medication or something.
that you know a certain percentage of the population
is going to get sick from, or worse, die. In
a life review, the fact that you didn't step
up, that you were part of the problem, not part
of the cause, you're going to feel, let's say,
the kid that gets sick, all the parents anguish.
You're going to get the whole bill at the end
when you have a life review, not as a punishment,
but as an accountability. So, you know, I really
hate to be the president that starts a war and
like, you know, 50 ,000 people get killed and
then you're going to go through 50 ,000 grieving
families. I mean, it's mind boggling. But I do
believe that I had a very limited experience
with showing my life review. These are the impressions
that I take. Is it a reality that you're going
to be like, go through that? I kind of think
so. I kind of think so. Now a lot of people describe
their life review as almost like giant movie
screens or TV screens. How did you actually see
or experience these things that you had happened,
had been through? I was in this big, I don't
know, cathedral hall, chamber, I don't know.
And it came down like segments of my life and
almost like a bubble. And then you can step through
or get through and see it. You see it in tandem
in two points of view, your own point of view
at the time and the other person that you're
affecting. I did see one good, you know, if you're
good to animals, boy, the love they give back
is unbelievable when you go through this. So
I'm a big animal person. I always have rescued
a kitten one time, got out in traffic, which
was stupid. This little white fluffy kitten I
rescued from getting, you know, run over was
on the medium strip in Virginia That was a big
thing. I have forgot about it, but it was a big
thing over there But it sounds like you're not
just seeing your point of view and the other
person's but you're feeling it Does that sound
right? Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. I forgot that part
Yeah, you're getting the impact especially the
the hurt you cause somebody or the disappointment.
Yeah. All right. What happened next after the
life review? Well, I wasn't real happy about
it. Of course, I'm looking at it as out of a
teenager's, you know, point of view. Again, I
was being led. I don't know how or where or there
were other there was I was I had other people
with me or other souls and I was being led. And
this one, I really kind of freaked me out. I
don't like heights. You know, it took me to 21
to get the courage up to fly. I've traveled again.
I don't know how I've traveled. I'm just zooming.
I wasn't at the same place where my grandfather
or my life review was. This place was big. And
off in the side, I thought I saw the earth. And
I thought, wow, I don't like heights. And I'm
not freaking out. I was surprised. Was it the
earth? I don't know. But what I was shown this
hall and there was like row here and a row here.
These were, I was told, somebody was telling
me, we're all male and we're all female, neatly
lined up. And I'm going through like a rolodex
of questions in my mind, like, why am I here?
What are you showing me? What's going on? And
didn't like it. These are your past lives. male
and female well i'm a girly girl so i really
didn't like the idea of being a guy. And there
was something about a detached feeling like i
didn't feel connected to these. Bodies are whatever
you would call it the shells and they were all
white. And then nobody was communicating with
me and i'm sitting there it's going there that
this whole thing is going very fast i'm talking
slow i went over. and I touched one and I got
like a visual of an older man and I was like,
oh, I go over to the females and this kind of
like woman was there, Caucasian, and I'm not
really grasping the whole thing. First of all,
I didn't like the idea of reincarnation and I
must have failed in life 101 because why did
I have so many repeats? I don't know. It was
not the best part of this whole thing. It was
kind of the creepiest for me. Knowing that you've
lived before I don't want to come back and do
it again, but I'm sure everybody thinks that
but for some reason I'm a repeat offender Do
you feel like you were taught some of those things
or you've interjected some of that? Since then
like you saw what you felt were like past lives.
I was told there were past lives All of these
were male all of these were female all of these
were yours But were you also told you had all
of these because you didn't do well enough in
them? No, no, no. That's just me guessing. I'm
just being sarcastic. I have a very wicked, gallows
humor. So it's still, it's a lot to explain because
when I tell people that I'm thinking, oh my God,
they're thinking she's a nut. But this is what
happened. I didn't like it. I'm not one of those
hold hands, sing kumbaya people at all. So I
had a harder time with it, but I was shown that
for a reason, and I'm interjecting the fact,
oh my God, I can't believe I did this so many
times. I don't know. So do you think you're done
now? You know, one would like to think, okay,
the thing that I was explained to me in this
life as Lura Catholic, I became aware. That's
my biggest accomplishment within myself. In this
life, I became aware. that there is another side,
that there is continuation of life after death,
I became aware. That's about it. Do people ever
give you a hard time because a lot of people
don't believe in reincarnation? Oh, yeah, like,
yeah, fu, fu, oh. When I did, sometimes when
I did my first shows, you know, like my mom said,
just don't go into the reincarnation. Laura,
don't go down that road because you're going
to be labeled a whackadee. So I left it out of
the... Interviews I didn't have the courage to
talk about it I was really cool about talking
about near -death experience about seeing my
grandfather even making it to source But I was
not cool about talking about reincarnation, but
I'm 65 now how many years do I have left and
I haven't met anybody out there that if their
opinion is lower Because I've said this, you
know, they think bad of me. I don't care at this
point good for you It's better to tell my truth.
We'll all find out. Like I have a very close
friend who doesn't believe any of this is possible,
but she knows I'm an honest person. And I said,
okay, 100 years from now, we're both dead, right?
We're going to be both dead. And she said, yeah.
And I'm coming up to you and telling you the
biggest I told you so of the century. And we
both laughed. I used to say that to my dad when
he was alive. All right. So did anything happen
after this part? Yeah, we're getting to the good
stuff. So again, I'm pushed or guided, and I
didn't really have any control of where I was
going. So I want to be really clear on that,
Eric. I was, you know, a passenger and I made
it to another dimension or another reality. And
this, I believe, is a consensus reality that
souls together create places like Earth. in order
to maybe recover after the trauma of death and
to gather. That's just a guess on my part. Anyways,
I got there and I grew up by the beach and it
was on an ocean or a beach and I liked that.
And there were these beautiful cliffs and there's
colors, you know, that I haven't seen and can't
express that are deeper and richer than here.
And in the cliffs, there were some windows like
here and here and here. And I thought there is
a dwelling inside somebody's made a dwelling
inside this, uh, this cliff, these rocks. I thought
that was cool. The water, I don't remember feeling
a temperature of the water, but I know it didn't
feel, it wasn't a cold climate. So I'm looking
around and then I'm kind of like thinking about
religion a little bit. And I thought, what about
the tree of life? You know, am I going to find
the tree of life? Then all of a sudden there's
this beautiful pine tree right in the surf. And
the bark was, it's really cool. It was like a
luminous white, but I could make out it was a
pine tree I could make out the bark and parts
of it were white and other was like of this green
moss color and It was tall and spindly and had
branches and I thought I thought to myself that's
not the biblical tree of life But boy, that's
a close second runner -up Glad I didn't think
about anything bad like dinosaurs or sharks or
something. Maybe they would have appeared but
I realized as this was going on, that this was
a thought responsive reality. And then as soon
as that idea came to me, I didn't get to explore,
I was off again. Okay, chapter three, we're off
to this time. This is as far as I went. All right.
And I also think this is as far as you can go.
I lost sensation of having like limbs. Now I
can think of it as a point of consciousness.
All of a sudden I'm going into this place and
I wanted for nothing. I wanted for nothing. All
of the fears, all of the crap, all of the chaos
of human life just seemed to evaporate. And I
was floating in this sea of love and what it
looked like and what my brain, what it was and
what did my brain perceive could have been two
different things. I don't know. I'm not an expert.
But it was like you're bursting through beautiful
clouds, something similar to clouds. There's
all these other souls with you that are floating
in the same sea of love, and there is a feeling
of motion. There is a bright light, but there's
no sun, no definite sun. There's a brightness,
but it doesn't hurt your eyes. And you see really
wide, your vision. Perceptions really why don't
could i see behind me i don't know i don't think
so. But there was like this music that came in
or floated in random waves is this was happening
so i'm floating in the sea of love. As soon as
i feel like it peace. It was over. And i'm getting
sucked back. And i didn't have any control now
this is where i turn into kind of a bad sport
about the whole thing. By the time I was sucked
back and talking to my grandfather again, his
image had faded. And we were in a layer outside
of physical reality that had this mauve tone
to it, a different vibrational level. And I'm
not happy or grateful or being too nice about
it. I just didn't want to come back. And I said
to him, this has been so long. I was shell -shocked
about what I, you know, I couldn't, my brain
couldn't perceive all that had happened. It was
overwhelming. And I didn't want to leave him.
And as I'm getting sucked away and pulled away
from him, I started feeling physical pain pretty
intensely, very intensely. Then it's like a bottle
being, you know, when, you know, when you pop
the bottle on the glass of wine, you know, bottle
of wine, you know, It's like getting recorked.
That's all I can say. So I come back in my body
with a thud. It wasn't pleasant. I was very sad.
I wasn't feeling grateful. I had this anguish
about wanting to be somewhere else. I'm not supposed
to be here. And the people that were around me,
I wish I'd been nicer to them. I wasn't mean
to them, but I was thinking, why did you bring
me back? I looked around this beautiful countryside
in Virginia. And I knew a lot of time had passed
because there was a car down there in the field
and there was more people and everybody was hovering
around me. And I just thought to myself, Eric,
this is not reality. It was pretty heartbreaking
for me. Do you know how much time had passed
until they brought you back? I don't know. I
didn't have smart questions. I know I was rushed
to the hospital. They didn't call an ambulance.
The two fellas that had i don't know if they
were the ones that i don't know who resuscitated
me or what happened but i was getting rushed
to the hospital i passed out in the car didn't
leave my body nothing like that i just passed
out i got to the hospital did the x -rays my
mother was there at fairfax hospital she happened
to be a nurse everybody's telling me how lucky
i am i still have a crooked finger from the finger
i broke i still have the bump on my nose from
smashing my nose i don't think there was are
part of my body that wasn't scratched bruised
or didn't hurt but i came out of it pretty good
the doctor said. That that writing helmet the
metal helmet i was wearing my head and strapped
i had a riding helmet safe my life hitting the
rocks i would have been. Really brain damage
or something sounds appreciating that and then
i had the bright idea in the are to tell the
doctor and everybody in the room that i just
see my grandfather what happened. My mother had
just stepped away and she stepped back to hear
me being chastised by the doctors and asking
what drugs I had taken. I felt humiliated and
the doctor was snickering at me and it just shut
me down pretty bad. Well, let's give some perspective
on the timing here. So I believe it was 1975
when Dr. Raymond Moody coined the term near -death
experience. and wrote his first book and so it
was just starting to be known, then your experience
was only four years later. This was not a regular
thing. A lot of doctors know how to deal with
this better now, I shall say. And a lot of nurses
and INS even has training for medical people
to help them know how to deal with this kind
of thing. But you and many other people have
told me they had experiences way back then. You
don't talk about it, because people act like
you are crazy, and frankly, you could have been
locked up as crazy for talking too much about
it. But the whole being accused of drugs, that's
another thing that just is so insulting. I'm
sorry that happened to you. Well, I felt shamed,
and I always took a lot of pride when I was a
teenager to stay away from drugs and alcohol
cigarettes. And then I went home and for 12 hours
I was pretty upset. I even tried to get out in
the middle of the intersection of Maryfield,
the car, when my mom was taking me home because
I had to get back to my grandfather. So I mean
I was pretty, I really got hurt. I went to a
therapist, I guess it was like two weeks after
the accident and I was doing better and I told
her about it. She just said to me, Oh, it was
a hallucination. It was a head injury. Are you
having a pity party because you're a pretty girl
that just broke her nose? And then I felt doubly
shamed. And then I just absolutely shut down.
I could not talk about it for years with anybody
till I was 25. Was your grandmother still alive
at the time? Yes. When I was 24, I got up the
courage to tell her that, you know, I saw my
grandfather and what he said. And there was something
personal that I don't talk about that we discussed
when, you know. So I talked to my grandmother
about it and she believed me, we were very close.
And then she said, well, you're just like my
mother. And then I found out that my great grandmother,
I heard all the family stories finally about
her having the gift and all these things that
had happened with my uncle and stuff. I just
wish I'd known about the stuff earlier. Did this
bring comfort to your grandmother? Oh, tremendous.
Tremendous. And she was in the nursing home.
I was 25, and when I was on vacation in Paris,
my grandfather came to see me. Tell me about
that. Well, I'd been out partying in Paris, having
a real good time. I was 25, and... I was a great
time in my life. I had an apartment in New York
and I was pretty much a party girl and dating
several different fellows, having a good time
in life. I had this Paris apartment that this
designer gave me while I was on vacation and
just a friend of mine. My grandfather came to
me one, I guess it was like really early in the
morning or late at night, depends how you define
it, came. right to me and took my hand, talked
to me a little bit, and then it was over. And
the funny thing is after seeing him, it was very
emotional. And the concern he had for me, the
concern he had for my grandmother, it wasn't
that he came back for me. He came back to my
grandmother and for me to talk to my grandmother
because she was dying of a brain tumor and in
a nursing home. And it was just horrible. Her
death was horrible. And I... Soon as I got back
to the States, I flew up to see her and talked
to her about it and said, you know, he's waiting
It's gonna be okay You know, this is what's gonna
happen when you die and I gave her a lot of stuff
and she I hope it gave her comfort it seemed
to I'm sure it did. Did your grandfather tell
you anything else? Personal stuff that it's not
applicable to the interview, but he told me I
was gonna have a hard life He wasn't kidding
He's still close by when I was, would you like
to hear how we saved my life when I was 34? Yeah.
Yeah, let's hear it. Okay. I was sick. I have
autoimmune disease. I've talked, I didn't talk
about it for years, but I was pretty sick and
the doctors had missed a few things and gone
to the hospital, everything. You just, and they
said that you have an inflamed liver capsule,
but you're going to be fine. It's just going
to hurt a lot. And I was glad about that. Well,
my grandfather came in one morning just walked
in like he was alive. And the different thing
was, he was wearing an outfit I was familiar
with. He had on a check like a plaid burgundy
and gray flannel shirt. I recognized the pants.
It was an outfit I'd seen him in before when
he was alive. And he came down and he sat on
my bed and he put his hand over my abdomen. And
I'm speechless. And I'm as awake as talking to
you right now." And he said, your spleen. And
then he dissolved. I was staying at my mom's
and I went out and I told her about it. And I
told her about the outfit. And I said, did his
gray pants have like a fake pocket with just
a button on it? And she knew. Yeah. So those
were the pants he wore. I'm thinking. Where's
your spleen? I didn't even know where it was.
I thought maybe it was in the back of your throat
I really didn't know if it was like that or adenoids
so I dismissed it and Then a couple days later.
I heard a woman in My left ear say spleen spleen
and then I got like what I call a blast of emotion
of concern That just came through me and left.
So I went out and I said, you know I got a message
and I'm believing if I don't have this spleen
out, I'm gonna die. So I went to a doctor and
I said, you know, I told him what happened and
he was actually pretty, pretty compassionate
about it. He said he'd heard of other things
like that. He said, I'll write a physician's
order. I went to a surgeon and I said, can I
have my spleen out? Here's a physician's order.
I said, can you do it this spring? And he said,
how's about Wednesday? And it was a strange thing
for him because they got in there, got my spleen
out, but my spleen had a blood clot the size
of a man's hand. So my spleen didn't explode,
it had imploded. And I'd been taking a lot of
aspirin, which is a blood thinner. The doctor
said afterwards, he said, you should really be
dead because you were taking aspirin. I don't
know why that spleen clotted. We were lucky to
get it. It would have broken up in a day or so,
day or two or three, and you would have perished.
Well, when I woke up, I didn't exactly feel lucky.
It really hurt. And I've always wondered if this
was the hard thing he was talking about. But
I was amazed that he could communicate with me
and come to me because nothing had happened like
that before my near death experience. OK, let's
go back. Do you mind if I ask you any kind of
clarification or detail you can fill in on a
couple of these things? One was you mentioned
in your experience about hearing music. Can you
tell us any more about the music? It's nothing
that I've ever heard here. It's not like chamber
music. I don't know if it was instrumental. It
was beautiful, but it wasn't a melody I'd heard
here. And it was very comforting and soft, like
it just caressed your senses. And it was floating
through the air or I was floating one of the
other, I don't know if I was in motion or the
music was in motion, in random waves. I could
hear it like in the background. It was nice.
Tell me more about floating in a sea of love.
Looking back, I felt that my physical body had
compressed into a point of consciousness. So
I didn't feel like arms and legs. I didn't feel
a sensation of having a face or fingers. Was
it panicked about it just felt like this was
like i was floating in the sea of love this i
was this consciousness. This was my source this
was my origin and i believe i didn't know the
time but i'm retrospect. All of the souls that
were around me how they were connected was there
were different versions of me part of me like
this is where your soul goes is it heaven no
i think it's your origin. Your source for me
source was all the parts of myself coming back
together. I believe that near -death experiences
and especially life reviews. We have a lot to
learn from those that these aren't just experiences
of fluff and grandeur or something but their
experiences to learn from. You had a really serious
kind of life review. How did that change your
life? I mean, you're only 19. How has it changed
your life for all these years since? Did it make
me a better person? Probably not. I'm just more
aware. I've always had a keen awareness after
that of not damaging somebody else. Even when
somebody isn't nice to me, I try to be nice back.
And it's been hard for me because I had a little
bit of a hot temper when I was young. So I've
quelled some of my temper and I haven't done
it all that well. Yeah, I did the best I could.
I wish I had done better in my life, I can tell
you that. But as I'm approaching my final years,
you know, I feel kind of peaceful because, you
know, death is not the big question at all. Not
for me. Do you have any fear of death? Well,
I don't want to hurt on the way out. I had 20
plus surgeries with this illness that I've had,
and it's been quite harrowing at times. You know
what I was surprised about, Eric, is this. I
don't know, like when I was a kid and stuff,
I thought, well, you know, you live and then
there's a time that God wants to take you and,
you know, we all have a time and expiration date,
then you die. I didn't realize there's different
times you can exit this world. I didn't know
there was more choice in when you die. And last
summer, I got into the hospital the nick of time
I had gangrene of the gallbladder. I never saw
that coming. And I was able to, you know, kind
of cheat death. I was pretty happy about it.
It went well. But there was another time when
I had a family member come to collect me. Would
you like to hear about that? Yeah. OK. I had
a surgery that was didn't think was life threatening.
I was doing better. Like when I was in my 30s,
it was life or death a whole lot, you know, with
my illness life or death. It was terrible. Got
in my 40s. It was much better. I did much better.
And I was considered, you know, I was going to
make it. I had done like 300 plasma transfusions.
I was on my way. So I go in for a minor surgery
and then I come home. I'm alone. just have the
dog and the horse. And I'm thinking I'm OK. It
just wasn't a successful surgery. And I was kind
of bummed about it. In the middle of the night,
my sister came. And I was all emotional. I was
so glad to see her. This is my best friend that
had died when I was 35. And my sister was my
best friend. She was my cheerleader. She was
my mother. She was everything rolled into one.
She came to get me and she looked just like her
and it looked like we were in my farm and this
was daylight even though it was probably two
or three in the morning. She said, I've come
to collect you. I'm going to take you to the
hospital now. We walked to the gate and then
I knew if I cross the gate, I'm not coming back.
I said to her, I know you're going to think this
is a nutty thing. I can't leave my horse. My
horse was like really old. I couldn't leave him.
He was like 28 years old. And he was my whole
life. And I had my dog there. And I'm not leaving
that horse. I'm not going without him. I'm not
leaving that horse. And I think that she got
it. She got some humor out of it. And she said,
well, I'm going to go ahead. And you can come
with me if you want. She was giving me a choice
if I wanted to leave. And I'm sitting there going,
goodness, my mother will be so pissed. I was
going through this list and I don't think it
was terribly rational. Didn't want to leave the
horse. Didn't want to leave my elderly parents
because who would take care of them? And later
on, I ended up giving them caregiving for five
years. I wasn't thinking about leaving my life.
I didn't care if I left my life. I just couldn't
leave before my horse or my parents. So I had
this responsibility. But had they not been alive,
I'd have gone right with her. She's leaving,
and I'm upset that she's leaving, and I'm standing
right by my gate, knowing I can't cross this
threshold. And I mean, the colors, the colors
were brighter, more vivid. I mean, I was there.
And then this ambulance comes up. The guy gets
out, and he's and he called Janice is my first
name is Janice. I'm here to help you. I'll take
you to the hospital. Just come with me." I didn't
know him, but he was really, really sincere and
kind. And I said, I can't do it. I'm not leaving
that horse. And then it was like a thud in my
solar plexus. I'm sitting up in bed. My body's
cold, very cold. This is summer, and I had to
take a lot of deep breaths, and it was over.
My body temperature was seriously cold. I Realized
that she had felt my distress because earlier
in the week I was like very bummed about the
surgery and like oh god Why are it? Why is this
going on and on am I ever gonna get better? I'm
so tired of this crap you know, I wasn't a good
sport and My sister came to get me to give him
and she gave me a choice. I didn't have to go
I chose to stay I have a feeling if you had had
that choice when you were 19, you may not have
come back. Oh, I never would have come back,
no. Yeah. And I told my mom all about it. My
parents knew all about this stuff. How did they
react to it? They were used to it. They were
used to some of the other things that had gone
on that had all turned out to be true. They found
me very clear and honest. My mother found it
comforting to know that her dad was close by.
She was very glad that my sister is close by
when people die they don't really leave you there
another dimension maybe you can't access them
or anything like that i mean i've tried when
i wanted to happen and never does and if it does
the message always comes in sideways. So people
deal with these experiences after they come back
in all kinds of different ways a lot of people
write books. More as a therapeutic kind of way
to deal with it than anything else and they write
about their personal experience You have also
written a series of books, but they're a little
bit different than that Would you explain that
real quick? And then and then we'll stick a link
in the show notes in case anybody wants to go
find him I never thought to be an author. I had
a dream of a story and i decided to write it
and it was all about near death experience and
it's after effects. So i was able to be going
this card writing mission where i could explain
with characters what happens in a near death
experience and the after effects and some of
the psychic abilities. That people pick up along
the way so it. morphed into this book series
and the paranormal experiences in the book series
are about 85 % truth and then a little bit of
fiction. And it's not stories about your life.
These are novels, right? No, it starts in 1979
and there is a crisis, an incident that happens
and these people come together and a doctor has
to steal these files from a hospital about having
these patients that have all had near -death
experiences because they're trying to contact
a ghost and find out what is the purpose of this
ghost, you know, reoccurring in this farm. And
I take you on an adventure. So it's a paranormal
mystery with a lot of romance. And I think it's
quite entertaining if you took the near -death
experience out of it, it would still be a strong,
you know, romance. I feel like I was helped to
write this, because I was gifted a dream and
a storyline. Well, whatever that vehicle was,
it was a form of expression for me because I
could explain New Death Experience and the psychic
after effects some people have. And it really
was a healing process for me to write these books.
It was wonderful because I was ill at the time
and it gave me a purpose. All right, before I
let you go. one last thing that I want you to
talk a little bit more about and see if you can
can leave us with a message of hope because I
have a feeling this will lead into it and that
is you said back when you were 19 and you first
came to that you were just full of anguish instead
of some people might be oh I'm so thankful to
be alive you were full of anguish explain that
more to us and you said that you wanted to be
someplace else why I wanted to be with my grandfather
i wanted to be there it was so wonderful. To
see him he love me just as much as he did the
day he died that there was this bridge between
us that i was able to cross and see him i mean.
What a relief it was it was wonderful to know
that there is a continuation of existence and
that the people you love you not losing them
forever. You've lost them in physical reality
when they die ahead of you, but you'll be right
back where you've started, you know, where it's
supposed to be. I just wanted to be with them
because I felt when I was there, I wanted for
nothing. My problems were over. It was a wonderful
place. There was part of me that was very curious.
I wanted to know more. I wasn't ungrateful to
come back. The whole thing left me shell shocked.
You know, I had a harder time with it because
I didn't understand it. Had I had a near -death
experience at 65, I would have had a complete
different experience. I was a kid. Would it be
accurate for me to say that not only is there
a continuation of existence, which you just said,
but also a continuation of relationships? Oh
my gosh, yes. Oh my gosh. I just got the feeling
you can do so many visiting. You just have to
think of someone. Let's say you've crossed over
and you're in non -physical reality. You're in
the next life, whatever you want to call it.
All you have to do is think and you can connect
with someone. Let's say you had a teacher that
you had loved and adored when you were in third
grade. Well, you'll be able to see her again
if she chooses, if she's in that dimension. As
I said, there are consensus realities. We don't
all go to the same place. We create what we need
after we pass. Thank you so much for being with
me today. I really appreciate it. I appreciate
you opening up, first of all, answering all my
questions and just for sharing. It's really a
comforting thing, isn't it? It's a wonderful,
blissful thing to know that there's a continuation
of existence that my sister and my grandfather
are right there. When I die, I'm not afraid,
and I'm still loved, and I can still feel that
love here. I just, I feel blessed. It's gotten
me through a lot of tough stuff. It's a known
fact. I know that there is a continuation after
death. It's not a belief for me. It's a known
fact, and that gives me a lot of comfort, and
I feel blessed. Why me? Why am I so lucky? Dumb
luck, I think. I just was riding that horse on
a bad day. Thanks again for listening and sharing
this podcast. Don't forget to hit the follow
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at roundtripdeath .com. If you want to share
your near -death experience or if you have questions
or comments about the show, send an email to
eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until then, I wish
you everything good that you're looking for in
this life and the next.