Welcome welcome my friends to Round Trip Death,
the podcast where we have conversations with
people who have died, visited the other side,
and return to talk about it. Today as you can
see we've done away with our fancy intro, it's
just me. In a couple of minutes we'll also have
a guest on, but before we do I wanted to share
some personal insights. as we've just passed
our three -year anniversary of the show. I hope
in some small way that this podcast means as
much to you as it does to me. I feel the love
from our hundreds of thousands of listeners.
I feel like I've made a new friend with each
and every guest on the show. Whether you're listening
while walking in the forest, commuting on the
San Diego freeway, or viewing on YouTube. I'm
so glad that you're with us. I learned so much
from the experiences of our guests and from the
many emails and other interactions with our listeners.
From the bottom of my heart, thank you, thank
you all. In case you haven't noticed yet, this
show is not about grandizing or click baiting
near -death experiences. Rather, it's about learning
from each other and sharing messages of hope.
At its simplest essence, It's about hope in an
afterlife, hope in a loving, caring God that's
in the details of our lives and experiences,
hope that we'll be with our deceased loved ones
again. Hope in the future beyond this life. It
really is a better place. And it's all about
love. Whether you believe in Jesus or Buddha
or Muhammad or any other being or source, the
truth is there is a God that loves you always
has loved you and always will love you no matter
what your actions are or what your beliefs are.
And we can make this world a better place by
loving and serving each other. Unlike most of
our episodes, today's is not an interview with
someone who's had an NDE. Earlier this year we
had a guest by the name of Kate Quay. It's episode
506 and if you haven't heard it yet you might
want to start there. Kate had a beautiful shared
-death type of experience when one of her best
friends was brutally murdered. The experience
helped her deal with the grief and the pain.
Sometime later she sent a long letter to her
friend's mother. The day that that letter was
received was the same day that the murderer was
sentenced. It was the day that the mother needed
that loving healing letter. Today's interview
is with Karen Wilson, the victim's mother who
received that letter that emotional day. This
is an example of how we can show love to a neighbor
and the life -changing effects it can have. I'd
love to welcome to the show today Karen Wilson,
who lives in Vermont, but you're in Maine today,
aren't you? I am on an island. On an island in
a lake? This time of year, do you walk to it
or take a boat to an island? Go across the ice
and skis or snowshoes. Wow, that sounds great.
Some kind of a girls getaway, right? Yeah. Yep.
I appreciate you taking a little time from that
to talk to us today. Would you like to tell us
what did you email to me and why? Well, I can't
remember it word for word. But the reason I can
remember that is because the day I heard that
podcast was an example of God's perfect timing.
And that that whole story with Kate is actually
has layers of that and that particular day that
I heard that podcast. I had spent some time rereading
some of my daughter's journals because I was
preparing to write an intro paragraph on her,
on the Mariah Wilson Foundation website, an intro
paragraph to our annual report showing all of
the organizations that we supported. in 2024
to honor her life and her unfinished work on
unearth hair that she had in her heart that she
wanted to do. And we have continued to do on
behalf of her. And so as I was preparing to write
that paragraph, I wanted to tune into her spirit
and to read some of her words that she wrote
in her journal and just kind of focus on her.
Sometimes I avoid doing that because it can be
almost a little painful and I'll get really,
really sad because I miss her so much. But that
day I felt really strong and I just dove in there
and it felt really good to kind of connect with
her heart. And the words came right out and that
paragraph came together and I felt really great
about it. And then I made myself a cup of tea
and I sat down and I turned on one of your podcasts
because Kate had shared your podcast with me
because we had been talking about how near -death
experiences can really help those who are struggling
with grief and wondering where their loved ones
are and that kind of thing. So I had turned on
the podcast, never knowing that Kate had been
recorded with you. There she is. She comes on
right on that day at that moment when I was just
so tuned in to Mariah. And I just, I felt like
it was literally a miracle was taking place right
then and there. And it was so incredible. So
at the end of it, I just had to share that with
you because I just had to tell somebody and I
thought, well, you were probably one. I don't
know. I just. Just wanted to share that with
you because I think you really like hearing stories.
And, and I actually sent Kate an email. I'm telling
her too. And those were my two instantaneous
reactions after I finished listening to it. Well,
I appreciate it. And it was very sweet. And I
appreciated hearing about Mariah. Kate didn't,
like I said, didn't mention her name. She didn't
know if the family would be okay with that or
not. And you are. We're going to talk about Mariah
for a minute. How long ago did you lose her?
It was on May 11th, 2022. Okay, so just coming
up on three years ago, so this is still very
fresh and raw and I really appreciate you realizing
that we will do our very best to treat this as
respectfully as we can and opening up for me
and for our listeners here. You had some other
spiritual things happen in conjunction with her
death. and soon afterwards. Would you mind telling
us about some of those? Okay, my personal experiences?
I could actually go back to the day she was...
I brought her home from the hospital. You really
want to... Okay, let's start there. The moment
she was born, when I looked at her, she was so
familiar. You know, all that time you're going
through a pregnancy, you wonder, what's my baby
going to look like? What's my baby going to look
like? And you can't wait to meet them. And when
I looked at her... I felt like I had known her
forever, that she was so familiar. I remember
thinking, oh, of course, that's what you look
like. Like, I know this face. It was really unexpected.
And to me, it was a spiritual thing because it
just felt like a spiritual connection, you know.
And anyway, and then a couple of days later,
when I was holding her at home, I was listening
to a Sean Colvin song about I'm going to miss
you when you go. And I started having this intensely
profound sadness come over me that she was gonna
leave me someday. And I just cried and cried
and cried. And now that she has left, I can't
help but think about how Mary was given that
vision. when she was told by the spirit that
someday her heart was going to be pierced, you
know, when, when, when Jesus was going to be
crucified. And I, and I can't compare myself
to Mary or Jesus, but it was like this premonition
was like this, this message that came to me as,
as she was an infant that someday you're going
to have to say goodbye to her. And I just, and
I thought in my mind, I was like, Oh, she's going
to get married and she's going to leave and she's
not going to leave at home. You know, she's going
to have her own life. That's kind of how I, interpreted
at the time. But now that I look at that, because
I didn't have that experience with my son, I
think it was just another of God's ways of almost
preparing me like this. And I never dwelt over
it or anything, but in retrospect, I see it as
a message that came. So that was a spiritual
thing. A few weeks or maybe a month or so before
she was killed, I had a dream of her figure.
and a gunshot. And I woke up instantly and I
just kept saying, no, no, no, no, that's not
going to happen. No, it's not going to happen.
I didn't really tell anybody about that because
it's not something you really want to talk about.
But that happened. And I even remember having
conversations with guys sometimes about, you
know, your biggest fear as a parent is losing
a child. I would be like, Okay, well the worst
thing that can happen is you know, my child could
die, right? That's kind of like your worst fear
but then on my faith level I Was like but but
there's eternal life So it's really not as bad
as I think it could be if it really happens and
I remember kind of going through those scenarios
in my head sometimes and Another kind of preparation
almost I guess anyway after she died Oh, no,
the night that she was killed and I didn't know
she was killed, I was in bed and it was right
around the time of her death and me not knowing
it, of course. And I was reading a little book
of poetry and I was reading about hope, a poem
about hope. And I kept going back to it and reading
it over and over and I was really drawn to it.
And it just seemed like there was some significant
thing about hope at that moment. And then when
I found out what happened the next day, I remembered
what I was doing the night before. And I knew
right away, this, this is, I have to hang on
to hope. Hope is a significant ingredient in
this experience, in this whole story. And even
that next day, I decided someday I'm getting
a dog. I'm going to name her Hope. And I do have
that dog named Hope now. And hope is just a big
theme right now. And then when I did find out
that morning, Or that after it was the next day
in the afternoon. I was in the in the garden
and well I'll go a little bit further that that
evening is really Really kind of more of the
spiritual experience. There's two things that
happened that night. I Was getting ready to go
to sleep. It was the first night going, you know
getting getting ready for the evening and I went
out to the garden and watered it. It was getting
pretty dark out The Sun had already set Was turning
off the water to the hose and I heard this Wind
going in the trees and drew my attention up to
the trees and I just Felt like God was getting
my attention. I did and I just first of all said,
please let her know that we're gonna be okay
and I told God just I Don't want her to worry
about us and you're gonna take care of us and
we're gonna be okay And then I said, but I need
one thing from you and I need it right now that
I need to know that you have her and she's okay.
And she's safe. And then right after I said that,
I said it was such conviction and expectation.
I, this little bird flew over me and I, cause
I said, give me a sign. I need a sign that she's
okay. And this little bird flew over me and I
thought maybe it was a bat, but I didn't really
want it to be a bat. Cause so I followed it up
to where it went. and I looked into the trees
where it went and then I heard the chickadee
call and it and it went do do and to me I heard
I have her I have her now whenever I hear the
chickadee that's what I hear I have her and it
comforts me so wonderfully and I was so grateful
for that. That was just like an instantaneous
answer to prayer. And prayer doesn't always come
answered that instantaneously, but it truly was.
And then that night, I sensed her in the house,
very, very distinctly, her presence was there
with us. And it was like all through the hours
of the night. So I was like half asleep, half
awake, never aware that there was her presence
was there. It was like this whole atmospheric
change that I can't really describe, but it was
this vibration or sense of presence. And it's
like she was joining in our own state of grief
because she was, I think, sad to leave. We were,
you know, obviously we're all shocked and including
her. It's like she was there to feel that with
us. So there wasn't really necessarily any distinct
emotion. It was just her presence and she was
just there, just her presence. And then in the
morning it was gone. And when I got up and I
said to my son and my husband, did you feel it?
Did you feel her? And they all went, yeah. And
just to interject, when people listen to Kate's
interview from a couple of weeks ago, they will
hear her story. her experience with Mariah shortly
after her death also. And I believe when you
and I talked previously, you mentioned another
friend that had an experience too. Who was that
and what happened? That was her friend in Colorado
who was mentoring her and yeah, he was walking
down the street and someone came out to him and
said, I can see people who have died. And there's
someone with you. I don't even think he knew
who she was. I can't really remember the story
exactly, but basically he went home and into
a room and he sensed her presence with her as
well. I think the way he described it was very
similar to how I felt in the night. So I think
she visited him. They had some time together.
She visited her friend who found her when she
had died and tried to revive her and when she
was recovering trying you know attempting to
recover from being in shock and yeah she felt
her hand come into her hand to comfort her which
was that night I think it was that night not
positive but it was very shortly after so she
kind of made her rounds I think you know to the
people that she needed to Be with say goodbye
to I don't know exactly, you know the reasons
but she made her rounds and I think her last
visit was at our place which was three days after
and I kind of get the sense that The spirit makes
their final departure in some cases. I don't
Understand all of it, but I have this sense that
after that third day I think they make their
full transition but not to say that their spirit
is still not with us Yeah, absolutely. I wonder
if the reason, you and I were talking and I was
very, very honest. I said, I don't know why I
feel like we need to have you on the show because
it doesn't really fit the format of the show
that much. Right. But I felt very strongly like
we need to, and maybe there's somebody out there
that's grieving today. And this message can bring
some comfort to them and to all of us who are
going to have to grieve at some point. Knowing
that these people are still alive that they still
love us that they care about us enough Like you
said to reach out and make sure that you were
doing okay That's a big deal and we may not have
a profound experience We may not like see this
person in spiritual form or something but even
the little feelings around us of their presence
can be very very real and So let's not discount
those things. Let's Go with that. What else do
you have to say to people? Expect those little
messages, those little signs, you know, either
from your loved one and or together with God.
I think they're together. Their spirits are united
and our spirits are united with them too. I believe
we are all connected. I believe that so profoundly.
When, you know, when a loved one dies, it definitely
changes. It changes you. And part of you does
die with them. Everything seems to kind of turn
upside down. And it seems like you're really
alone, especially when something happens super
suddenly and it's so shocking. And if it's a
child, it's even that much more intense for sure.
I think there's so many promises that God is
close to the broken hearted. and to look for
that presence of His love and comfort, that that
infinite love is all around us all the time.
When we're in a really dark place, the more we
trust in that infinite, boundless, powerful love,
trusting in it, Can make all of the difference
you will see signs of it. I can give an example
For instance when we put some of her ashes in
the lake here one morning at sunrise Right after
we put the ashes in the lake right in our eyes
view flew an eagle like right in front of us
That never has happened before. I don't know
if it'll ever happen again. It was just so beautiful
So I've had so many different things like that
happen Another one is we were sitting on the
front porch here and we were watching the celebration
of life of her life in California by her friends
there. And we're sitting on the porch with our
friends who lost their son in an avalanche who
was good friends with Mariah. And we are looking
at it on the front porch and as it started the
most incredible rainbow came out over the sky
the most beautiful rainbow I've ever seen here.
It just shows God's love, like He loves us so
much, so very much. And that's one of the things
I've learned from listening to all the NDEs is
the most common element in so many of them is
the depth of love that people sense and the light.
And I think that's why I'm so drawn to listening
to them and reading about them is I've gone deeper
into my faith and into my trust. of God's love
for us, for every single person. And I think
we can't forget that when we go through something
super hard, that God is with us through all of
it. His love is here, is always around us. We're
not alone. And we are going to feel sad and we
are going to fall into pits of darkness. But
we we have to choose to cry out and call out
and ask God to help us and trust that he is right
there all the time and when we do we will be
lifted out of that darkness and Discover all
kinds of wonderful things. There's this level
of joy that's actually bubbled up out of the
depths of grief Sometimes I think our life experience
is like a pendulum The more we experience the
depth of pain and sorrow and suffering, the more
the pendulum can swing over and feel the depths
of joy and love. Absolutely. How much do you
appreciate your health after you've been sick?
Right. I mean, who wants to live in a world where
it just moves a little bit, you know, like to
be in a safe zone of not feeling hardly anything.
Sometimes I do when the alternative is something
super hard. I admit it. But no, I totally get
and agree with what you're saying. The other
point that has come up to me between talking
with you and hearing Kate's story about sending
you the letter is God's timing in things. She
had been trying to send you that letter for a
little while and people will have to go back
and listen to her episode to hear what all happened
with that. But her letter to you, just for some
reason, got to you the exact day you needed it.
Right? It sure did. Tell the listeners what was
going on that day. It was a really hard day.
It's something I've been putting off for a long,
long time. I mean, I had so many months, but
we had to write a victim statement for the court
of the impact the crime had on our lives. And
to put all of that in words was extremely painful
and emotional. And I got Kate's letter. And I
just couldn't believe the depth of love I felt
in that letter and encouragement and the timing.
I just was like, this is amazing that this letter
came today, as I was working on this. And I actually
have it right here. I just like love this. And
I love to reread it. And I actually read it this
morning to my friends. Yeah, the timing, God's
timing is so perfect. And the thing about God's
timing, part of my life lesson is being patient.
We live in a world of instantaneous everything
when it comes to prayer and just how the whole
universe functions and how, you know, the infinite
wisdom of our Creator is working all things out
for good. We have to trust that process and a
lot of that requires patience But that's another
way that God's love can be manifest is in the
timing It's not just that you receive Kate's
letter. It was when you received it, right? And
that takes patience, but it's also I think shows
his love as well and the timing of some of the
other things that have happened with you with
this and frankly the timing of the email that
you sent me Was at a time I really needed it
too and and it really meant a lot to me and I
really appreciated that very much Lastly before
I let you go Tell us about the foundation that
you set up in memory of Mariah and why so Mariah?
had written some of her last entries in her journal
and what She was doing at the time of her death
She she was reading a book called the second
mountain by David Brooks And she was reading
at a second time and she was underlining sections
of it. It's called The second mountain forget
the subtitle of it, but it's it's basically about
The first mountain being finding success in the
world, the job you've always wanted or the dream
of your life coming true, the family you've always
wanted, the spouse or the house or whatever,
your worldly dreams are all kind of coming into
place and kind of more or less you've gotten
to that first mountain. And then the second mountain
is taking all of your, you know, worldly success
and accomplishments and then Turning them into
doing good for others using your gifts and your
talents and not using them all just for yourself
but giving back I guess in the sense is to put
in a simple term and so she was she was reading
this book about the second mountain and. She
was already thinking because she had achieved
her dreams were coming true she had. reached
the level of becoming a professional athlete.
Now, being such a goal setter, she was always
had to have a new goal. So she had kind of, in
a sense, met this goal. And now she was like,
now what's my next goal? So her next goal was
to use her accomplishments, her platform as a
successful athlete. And what can she do to help
others and so she was writing in her journal
you know some of her ideas like she just wanted
to get kids on bikes in any form or fashion or
what was the words you have to go to our website
to read her words but it was about just making
a difference in the lives of others. With her
success that's what she wanted to do. No she
wanted to get involved in some other organizations
that would just lift others up and especially
i think kids in general and women in sports so
she had some of these goals she had written in
a journal so we decided that we need to carry
on her wishes and in order to do that we created
the nonprofit the maria wilson foundation and
so are our mission is to. I wish I had it in
front of my face. I should know it by heart.
It's basically to promote healthy lifestyles
and building community and being active and helping
organizations that do those things. So we've
accomplished, we achieved that goal in 2024.
We were able to give to about eight or nine different
organizations. It is brought us so much joy knowing
that we are working in conjunction with my spirit
and her love for others feeling close to her
in the process and drawing others into that that
beautiful space. It's it's made a huge difference
you know and how we're dealing with this and
i truly believe that and i claimed this the day
that she died that. That beauty can come out
of ashes, that good can come out of tragedy.
When you choose to go that route, it can be incredible
silver linings. We'll put a link in the show
notes to the Foundation in case anybody wants
to get involved. Can you leave us with any other
message of hope? There's so much I could say
about that. I think about that line in the poem
that I read right around when she died. The one
line that I kept reading over and over is it
said, when there is life, there is hope. At one
time that used to be like a common saying, but
the, the person who wrote this poem said, I see
it more true in reverse, that when there is hope,
there's life. And that was what I was, that's
what I was contemplating on that right around
the moment of her death, when there was hope,
there is life. Like that's a beautiful. Picture
our loved ones are still alive and have hope
in that they do not stop existing and we will
see them again and Trust how much God loves them
and loves you don't give up just don't give up
and Surrender to the fact that there's so much
out of our control if you believe that God really
loves you and he's in control of everything,
then you don't need to worry and worry and worry
and be in fear. Perfect love casts out all fear.
That's a promise that's in God's word. Perfect
love casts out fear. Another beautiful image
I have is hope is like a golden cord that connects
us to heaven. That is where our eternal home
is. I love how ND ears express and explain how
they had this feeling of being home. And what
better feeling is there than feeling so at home?
And we have so much to look forward to in our
eternal home with our with our eternal family
And it's just gonna be so beautiful And it's
an adventure and just embrace the adventure for
what it is Perfect. Thank you Karen. You're welcome
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button
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.com. If you want to share your near -death experience
or if you have questions or comments about the
show, send an email to eric at roundtripdeath
.com. Until then, I wish you everything good
that you're looking for in this life and the
next.