WEBVTT 00:00:04.910 --> 00:00:07.629 Welcome welcome my friends to Round Trip Death, 00:00:07.990 --> 00:00:10.390 the podcast where we have conversations with 00:00:10.390 --> 00:00:13.169 people who have died, visited the other side, 00:00:13.429 --> 00:00:16.289 and return to talk about it. Today as you can 00:00:16.289 --> 00:00:18.449 see we've done away with our fancy intro, it's 00:00:18.449 --> 00:00:21.250 just me. In a couple of minutes we'll also have 00:00:21.250 --> 00:00:24.210 a guest on, but before we do I wanted to share 00:00:24.210 --> 00:00:27.329 some personal insights. as we've just passed 00:00:27.329 --> 00:00:30.289 our three -year anniversary of the show. I hope 00:00:30.289 --> 00:00:33.950 in some small way that this podcast means as 00:00:33.950 --> 00:00:37.329 much to you as it does to me. I feel the love 00:00:37.329 --> 00:00:39.770 from our hundreds of thousands of listeners. 00:00:40.469 --> 00:00:42.450 I feel like I've made a new friend with each 00:00:42.450 --> 00:00:45.429 and every guest on the show. Whether you're listening 00:00:45.429 --> 00:00:48.570 while walking in the forest, commuting on the 00:00:48.570 --> 00:00:52.020 San Diego freeway, or viewing on YouTube. I'm 00:00:52.020 --> 00:00:55.039 so glad that you're with us. I learned so much 00:00:55.039 --> 00:00:57.520 from the experiences of our guests and from the 00:00:57.520 --> 00:01:00.960 many emails and other interactions with our listeners. 00:01:01.399 --> 00:01:04.319 From the bottom of my heart, thank you, thank 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:07.519 you all. In case you haven't noticed yet, this 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:10.840 show is not about grandizing or click baiting 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:14.319 near -death experiences. Rather, it's about learning 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:17.120 from each other and sharing messages of hope. 00:01:17.640 --> 00:01:21.090 At its simplest essence, It's about hope in an 00:01:21.090 --> 00:01:24.969 afterlife, hope in a loving, caring God that's 00:01:24.969 --> 00:01:27.450 in the details of our lives and experiences, 00:01:28.090 --> 00:01:30.370 hope that we'll be with our deceased loved ones 00:01:30.370 --> 00:01:34.150 again. Hope in the future beyond this life. It 00:01:34.150 --> 00:01:37.489 really is a better place. And it's all about 00:01:37.489 --> 00:01:40.230 love. Whether you believe in Jesus or Buddha 00:01:40.230 --> 00:01:44.090 or Muhammad or any other being or source, the 00:01:44.090 --> 00:01:48.219 truth is there is a God that loves you always 00:01:48.219 --> 00:01:52.200 has loved you and always will love you no matter 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:54.980 what your actions are or what your beliefs are. 00:01:55.359 --> 00:01:58.519 And we can make this world a better place by 00:01:58.519 --> 00:02:01.599 loving and serving each other. Unlike most of 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:04.000 our episodes, today's is not an interview with 00:02:04.000 --> 00:02:07.299 someone who's had an NDE. Earlier this year we 00:02:07.299 --> 00:02:10.659 had a guest by the name of Kate Quay. It's episode 00:02:10.659 --> 00:02:13.500 506 and if you haven't heard it yet you might 00:02:13.500 --> 00:02:16.960 want to start there. Kate had a beautiful shared 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:20.099 -death type of experience when one of her best 00:02:20.099 --> 00:02:23.479 friends was brutally murdered. The experience 00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:26.259 helped her deal with the grief and the pain. 00:02:26.840 --> 00:02:29.259 Sometime later she sent a long letter to her 00:02:29.259 --> 00:02:32.539 friend's mother. The day that that letter was 00:02:32.539 --> 00:02:36.199 received was the same day that the murderer was 00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:41.080 sentenced. It was the day that the mother needed 00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:45.009 that loving healing letter. Today's interview 00:02:45.009 --> 00:02:48.330 is with Karen Wilson, the victim's mother who 00:02:48.330 --> 00:02:51.569 received that letter that emotional day. This 00:02:51.569 --> 00:02:54.449 is an example of how we can show love to a neighbor 00:02:54.449 --> 00:03:01.030 and the life -changing effects it can have. I'd 00:03:01.030 --> 00:03:03.590 love to welcome to the show today Karen Wilson, 00:03:04.330 --> 00:03:07.469 who lives in Vermont, but you're in Maine today, 00:03:07.530 --> 00:03:12.469 aren't you? I am on an island. On an island in 00:03:12.469 --> 00:03:17.500 a lake? This time of year, do you walk to it 00:03:17.500 --> 00:03:20.560 or take a boat to an island? Go across the ice 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:24.080 and skis or snowshoes. Wow, that sounds great. 00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:29.979 Some kind of a girls getaway, right? Yeah. Yep. 00:03:30.580 --> 00:03:32.759 I appreciate you taking a little time from that 00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:37.120 to talk to us today. Would you like to tell us 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:40.620 what did you email to me and why? Well, I can't 00:03:40.620 --> 00:03:44.860 remember it word for word. But the reason I can 00:03:44.860 --> 00:03:48.599 remember that is because the day I heard that 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:53.099 podcast was an example of God's perfect timing. 00:03:54.259 --> 00:03:57.060 And that that whole story with Kate is actually 00:03:57.060 --> 00:04:02.080 has layers of that and that particular day that 00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:06.729 I heard that podcast. I had spent some time rereading 00:04:06.729 --> 00:04:10.469 some of my daughter's journals because I was 00:04:10.469 --> 00:04:15.069 preparing to write an intro paragraph on her, 00:04:15.189 --> 00:04:18.649 on the Mariah Wilson Foundation website, an intro 00:04:18.649 --> 00:04:21.689 paragraph to our annual report showing all of 00:04:21.689 --> 00:04:26.360 the organizations that we supported. in 2024 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:31.620 to honor her life and her unfinished work on 00:04:31.620 --> 00:04:34.240 unearth hair that she had in her heart that she 00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:38.120 wanted to do. And we have continued to do on 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:41.800 behalf of her. And so as I was preparing to write 00:04:41.800 --> 00:04:46.199 that paragraph, I wanted to tune into her spirit 00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:49.779 and to read some of her words that she wrote 00:04:49.779 --> 00:04:53.160 in her journal and just kind of focus on her. 00:04:54.970 --> 00:04:57.389 Sometimes I avoid doing that because it can be 00:04:57.389 --> 00:04:59.149 almost a little painful and I'll get really, 00:04:59.149 --> 00:05:02.410 really sad because I miss her so much. But that 00:05:02.410 --> 00:05:06.490 day I felt really strong and I just dove in there 00:05:06.490 --> 00:05:09.810 and it felt really good to kind of connect with 00:05:09.810 --> 00:05:13.269 her heart. And the words came right out and that 00:05:13.269 --> 00:05:15.310 paragraph came together and I felt really great 00:05:15.310 --> 00:05:18.970 about it. And then I made myself a cup of tea 00:05:18.970 --> 00:05:21.810 and I sat down and I turned on one of your podcasts 00:05:21.810 --> 00:05:25.160 because Kate had shared your podcast with me 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:27.540 because we had been talking about how near -death 00:05:27.540 --> 00:05:32.819 experiences can really help those who are struggling 00:05:32.819 --> 00:05:34.600 with grief and wondering where their loved ones 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:37.420 are and that kind of thing. So I had turned on 00:05:37.420 --> 00:05:40.920 the podcast, never knowing that Kate had been 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:45.000 recorded with you. There she is. She comes on 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:48.879 right on that day at that moment when I was just 00:05:48.879 --> 00:05:54.220 so tuned in to Mariah. And I just, I felt like 00:05:54.220 --> 00:05:56.879 it was literally a miracle was taking place right 00:05:56.879 --> 00:05:59.800 then and there. And it was so incredible. So 00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:01.939 at the end of it, I just had to share that with 00:06:01.939 --> 00:06:06.199 you because I just had to tell somebody and I 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:07.860 thought, well, you were probably one. I don't 00:06:07.860 --> 00:06:11.500 know. I just. Just wanted to share that with 00:06:11.500 --> 00:06:15.540 you because I think you really like hearing stories. 00:06:15.959 --> 00:06:20.560 And, and I actually sent Kate an email. I'm telling 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:23.269 her too. And those were my two instantaneous 00:06:23.269 --> 00:06:26.290 reactions after I finished listening to it. Well, 00:06:26.310 --> 00:06:29.670 I appreciate it. And it was very sweet. And I 00:06:29.670 --> 00:06:33.629 appreciated hearing about Mariah. Kate didn't, 00:06:33.629 --> 00:06:35.829 like I said, didn't mention her name. She didn't 00:06:35.829 --> 00:06:39.170 know if the family would be okay with that or 00:06:39.170 --> 00:06:43.069 not. And you are. We're going to talk about Mariah 00:06:43.069 --> 00:06:45.750 for a minute. How long ago did you lose her? 00:06:46.050 --> 00:06:50.529 It was on May 11th, 2022. Okay, so just coming 00:06:50.529 --> 00:06:54.410 up on three years ago, so this is still very 00:06:54.410 --> 00:07:01.209 fresh and raw and I really appreciate you realizing 00:07:01.209 --> 00:07:03.769 that we will do our very best to treat this as 00:07:03.769 --> 00:07:08.069 respectfully as we can and opening up for me 00:07:08.069 --> 00:07:11.709 and for our listeners here. You had some other 00:07:11.709 --> 00:07:15.009 spiritual things happen in conjunction with her 00:07:15.009 --> 00:07:17.920 death. and soon afterwards. Would you mind telling 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:21.439 us about some of those? Okay, my personal experiences? 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:25.019 I could actually go back to the day she was... 00:07:25.019 --> 00:07:27.100 I brought her home from the hospital. You really 00:07:27.100 --> 00:07:30.480 want to... Okay, let's start there. The moment 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:33.579 she was born, when I looked at her, she was so 00:07:33.579 --> 00:07:35.839 familiar. You know, all that time you're going 00:07:35.839 --> 00:07:37.500 through a pregnancy, you wonder, what's my baby 00:07:37.500 --> 00:07:39.199 going to look like? What's my baby going to look 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:41.720 like? And you can't wait to meet them. And when 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:45.000 I looked at her... I felt like I had known her 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:48.360 forever, that she was so familiar. I remember 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:49.879 thinking, oh, of course, that's what you look 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:55.819 like. Like, I know this face. It was really unexpected. 00:07:56.259 --> 00:08:00.459 And to me, it was a spiritual thing because it 00:08:00.459 --> 00:08:02.819 just felt like a spiritual connection, you know. 00:08:02.980 --> 00:08:05.360 And anyway, and then a couple of days later, 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:08.879 when I was holding her at home, I was listening 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:11.540 to a Sean Colvin song about I'm going to miss 00:08:11.540 --> 00:08:18.199 you when you go. And I started having this intensely 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:20.860 profound sadness come over me that she was gonna 00:08:20.860 --> 00:08:24.420 leave me someday. And I just cried and cried 00:08:24.420 --> 00:08:29.560 and cried. And now that she has left, I can't 00:08:29.560 --> 00:08:32.340 help but think about how Mary was given that 00:08:32.340 --> 00:08:34.960 vision. when she was told by the spirit that 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:37.019 someday her heart was going to be pierced, you 00:08:37.019 --> 00:08:38.980 know, when, when, when Jesus was going to be 00:08:38.980 --> 00:08:42.000 crucified. And I, and I can't compare myself 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:45.000 to Mary or Jesus, but it was like this premonition 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:48.100 was like this, this message that came to me as, 00:08:48.139 --> 00:08:51.679 as she was an infant that someday you're going 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:53.740 to have to say goodbye to her. And I just, and 00:08:53.740 --> 00:08:55.419 I thought in my mind, I was like, Oh, she's going 00:08:55.419 --> 00:08:57.059 to get married and she's going to leave and she's 00:08:57.059 --> 00:08:58.919 not going to leave at home. You know, she's going 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:02.299 to have her own life. That's kind of how I, interpreted 00:09:02.299 --> 00:09:07.019 at the time. But now that I look at that, because 00:09:07.019 --> 00:09:09.700 I didn't have that experience with my son, I 00:09:09.700 --> 00:09:13.320 think it was just another of God's ways of almost 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:16.779 preparing me like this. And I never dwelt over 00:09:16.779 --> 00:09:19.600 it or anything, but in retrospect, I see it as 00:09:19.600 --> 00:09:22.320 a message that came. So that was a spiritual 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:26.340 thing. A few weeks or maybe a month or so before 00:09:26.340 --> 00:09:30.679 she was killed, I had a dream of her figure. 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:34.779 and a gunshot. And I woke up instantly and I 00:09:34.779 --> 00:09:37.139 just kept saying, no, no, no, no, that's not 00:09:37.139 --> 00:09:38.600 going to happen. No, it's not going to happen. 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:42.179 I didn't really tell anybody about that because 00:09:42.179 --> 00:09:44.240 it's not something you really want to talk about. 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:49.080 But that happened. And I even remember having 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:53.220 conversations with guys sometimes about, you 00:09:53.220 --> 00:09:55.019 know, your biggest fear as a parent is losing 00:09:55.019 --> 00:10:00.909 a child. I would be like, Okay, well the worst 00:10:00.909 --> 00:10:03.029 thing that can happen is you know, my child could 00:10:03.029 --> 00:10:05.370 die, right? That's kind of like your worst fear 00:10:05.370 --> 00:10:10.909 but then on my faith level I Was like but but 00:10:10.909 --> 00:10:15.230 there's eternal life So it's really not as bad 00:10:15.230 --> 00:10:17.590 as I think it could be if it really happens and 00:10:17.590 --> 00:10:20.409 I remember kind of going through those scenarios 00:10:20.409 --> 00:10:25.110 in my head sometimes and Another kind of preparation 00:10:25.110 --> 00:10:29.970 almost I guess anyway after she died Oh, no, 00:10:30.149 --> 00:10:32.889 the night that she was killed and I didn't know 00:10:32.889 --> 00:10:36.990 she was killed, I was in bed and it was right 00:10:36.990 --> 00:10:39.710 around the time of her death and me not knowing 00:10:39.710 --> 00:10:42.509 it, of course. And I was reading a little book 00:10:42.509 --> 00:10:45.929 of poetry and I was reading about hope, a poem 00:10:45.929 --> 00:10:50.210 about hope. And I kept going back to it and reading 00:10:50.210 --> 00:10:52.929 it over and over and I was really drawn to it. 00:10:53.049 --> 00:10:57.629 And it just seemed like there was some significant 00:10:57.759 --> 00:11:01.220 thing about hope at that moment. And then when 00:11:01.220 --> 00:11:03.519 I found out what happened the next day, I remembered 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:06.399 what I was doing the night before. And I knew 00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:09.179 right away, this, this is, I have to hang on 00:11:09.179 --> 00:11:11.940 to hope. Hope is a significant ingredient in 00:11:11.940 --> 00:11:15.340 this experience, in this whole story. And even 00:11:15.340 --> 00:11:17.960 that next day, I decided someday I'm getting 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:19.980 a dog. I'm going to name her Hope. And I do have 00:11:19.980 --> 00:11:22.639 that dog named Hope now. And hope is just a big 00:11:22.639 --> 00:11:26.179 theme right now. And then when I did find out 00:11:26.179 --> 00:11:29.399 that morning, Or that after it was the next day 00:11:29.399 --> 00:11:31.639 in the afternoon. I was in the in the garden 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:35.679 and well I'll go a little bit further that that 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:39.039 evening is really Really kind of more of the 00:11:39.039 --> 00:11:41.519 spiritual experience. There's two things that 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:44.980 happened that night. I Was getting ready to go 00:11:44.980 --> 00:11:47.379 to sleep. It was the first night going, you know 00:11:47.379 --> 00:11:50.940 getting getting ready for the evening and I went 00:11:50.940 --> 00:11:53.299 out to the garden and watered it. It was getting 00:11:53.299 --> 00:11:57.820 pretty dark out The Sun had already set Was turning 00:11:57.820 --> 00:12:02.639 off the water to the hose and I heard this Wind 00:12:02.639 --> 00:12:05.440 going in the trees and drew my attention up to 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:08.399 the trees and I just Felt like God was getting 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:11.059 my attention. I did and I just first of all said, 00:12:11.460 --> 00:12:14.240 please let her know that we're gonna be okay 00:12:14.240 --> 00:12:18.659 and I told God just I Don't want her to worry 00:12:18.659 --> 00:12:21.700 about us and you're gonna take care of us and 00:12:21.700 --> 00:12:24.730 we're gonna be okay And then I said, but I need 00:12:24.730 --> 00:12:28.110 one thing from you and I need it right now that 00:12:28.110 --> 00:12:31.450 I need to know that you have her and she's okay. 00:12:31.570 --> 00:12:34.850 And she's safe. And then right after I said that, 00:12:34.850 --> 00:12:38.710 I said it was such conviction and expectation. 00:12:39.129 --> 00:12:41.830 I, this little bird flew over me and I, cause 00:12:41.830 --> 00:12:44.669 I said, give me a sign. I need a sign that she's 00:12:44.669 --> 00:12:47.490 okay. And this little bird flew over me and I 00:12:47.490 --> 00:12:49.629 thought maybe it was a bat, but I didn't really 00:12:49.629 --> 00:12:52.250 want it to be a bat. Cause so I followed it up 00:12:52.250 --> 00:12:54.779 to where it went. and I looked into the trees 00:12:54.779 --> 00:12:56.779 where it went and then I heard the chickadee 00:12:56.779 --> 00:13:02.000 call and it and it went do do and to me I heard 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:07.419 I have her I have her now whenever I hear the 00:13:07.419 --> 00:13:10.259 chickadee that's what I hear I have her and it 00:13:10.259 --> 00:13:14.690 comforts me so wonderfully and I was so grateful 00:13:14.690 --> 00:13:17.690 for that. That was just like an instantaneous 00:13:17.690 --> 00:13:19.789 answer to prayer. And prayer doesn't always come 00:13:19.789 --> 00:13:23.250 answered that instantaneously, but it truly was. 00:13:23.590 --> 00:13:26.970 And then that night, I sensed her in the house, 00:13:27.230 --> 00:13:30.669 very, very distinctly, her presence was there 00:13:30.669 --> 00:13:33.929 with us. And it was like all through the hours 00:13:33.929 --> 00:13:36.309 of the night. So I was like half asleep, half 00:13:36.309 --> 00:13:40.309 awake, never aware that there was her presence 00:13:40.309 --> 00:13:44.970 was there. It was like this whole atmospheric 00:13:44.970 --> 00:13:48.269 change that I can't really describe, but it was 00:13:48.269 --> 00:13:52.950 this vibration or sense of presence. And it's 00:13:52.950 --> 00:13:57.149 like she was joining in our own state of grief 00:13:57.149 --> 00:13:59.850 because she was, I think, sad to leave. We were, 00:13:59.850 --> 00:14:02.830 you know, obviously we're all shocked and including 00:14:02.830 --> 00:14:05.409 her. It's like she was there to feel that with 00:14:05.409 --> 00:14:10.379 us. So there wasn't really necessarily any distinct 00:14:10.379 --> 00:14:13.379 emotion. It was just her presence and she was 00:14:13.379 --> 00:14:17.360 just there, just her presence. And then in the 00:14:17.360 --> 00:14:20.620 morning it was gone. And when I got up and I 00:14:20.620 --> 00:14:22.940 said to my son and my husband, did you feel it? 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:26.480 Did you feel her? And they all went, yeah. And 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:30.159 just to interject, when people listen to Kate's 00:14:30.159 --> 00:14:33.299 interview from a couple of weeks ago, they will 00:14:33.299 --> 00:14:38.840 hear her story. her experience with Mariah shortly 00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:41.860 after her death also. And I believe when you 00:14:41.860 --> 00:14:44.279 and I talked previously, you mentioned another 00:14:44.279 --> 00:14:47.519 friend that had an experience too. Who was that 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:51.720 and what happened? That was her friend in Colorado 00:14:51.720 --> 00:14:55.899 who was mentoring her and yeah, he was walking 00:14:55.899 --> 00:14:58.799 down the street and someone came out to him and 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:04.179 said, I can see people who have died. And there's 00:15:04.179 --> 00:15:07.200 someone with you. I don't even think he knew 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:10.059 who she was. I can't really remember the story 00:15:10.059 --> 00:15:15.100 exactly, but basically he went home and into 00:15:15.100 --> 00:15:17.700 a room and he sensed her presence with her as 00:15:17.700 --> 00:15:20.700 well. I think the way he described it was very 00:15:20.700 --> 00:15:23.659 similar to how I felt in the night. So I think 00:15:23.659 --> 00:15:28.340 she visited him. They had some time together. 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:33.600 She visited her friend who found her when she 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:36.779 had died and tried to revive her and when she 00:15:36.779 --> 00:15:39.700 was recovering trying you know attempting to 00:15:39.700 --> 00:15:43.100 recover from being in shock and yeah she felt 00:15:43.100 --> 00:15:47.120 her hand come into her hand to comfort her which 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:50.240 was that night I think it was that night not 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:54.360 positive but it was very shortly after so she 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.659 kind of made her rounds I think you know to the 00:15:57.659 --> 00:16:00.980 people that she needed to Be with say goodbye 00:16:00.980 --> 00:16:04.500 to I don't know exactly, you know the reasons 00:16:04.500 --> 00:16:08.960 but she made her rounds and I think her last 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:12.220 visit was at our place which was three days after 00:16:12.220 --> 00:16:15.440 and I kind of get the sense that The spirit makes 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:18.320 their final departure in some cases. I don't 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:21.519 Understand all of it, but I have this sense that 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:24.759 after that third day I think they make their 00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:27.240 full transition but not to say that their spirit 00:16:27.240 --> 00:16:31.960 is still not with us Yeah, absolutely. I wonder 00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:34.679 if the reason, you and I were talking and I was 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:37.159 very, very honest. I said, I don't know why I 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:40.100 feel like we need to have you on the show because 00:16:40.100 --> 00:16:41.820 it doesn't really fit the format of the show 00:16:41.820 --> 00:16:45.080 that much. Right. But I felt very strongly like 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:47.779 we need to, and maybe there's somebody out there 00:16:47.779 --> 00:16:50.960 that's grieving today. And this message can bring 00:16:50.960 --> 00:16:54.139 some comfort to them and to all of us who are 00:16:54.139 --> 00:16:56.870 going to have to grieve at some point. Knowing 00:16:56.870 --> 00:16:59.769 that these people are still alive that they still 00:16:59.769 --> 00:17:03.269 love us that they care about us enough Like you 00:17:03.269 --> 00:17:06.250 said to reach out and make sure that you were 00:17:06.250 --> 00:17:10.009 doing okay That's a big deal and we may not have 00:17:10.009 --> 00:17:13.329 a profound experience We may not like see this 00:17:13.329 --> 00:17:16.750 person in spiritual form or something but even 00:17:16.750 --> 00:17:20.029 the little feelings around us of their presence 00:17:20.029 --> 00:17:23.769 can be very very real and So let's not discount 00:17:23.769 --> 00:17:27.809 those things. Let's Go with that. What else do 00:17:27.809 --> 00:17:31.089 you have to say to people? Expect those little 00:17:31.089 --> 00:17:35.490 messages, those little signs, you know, either 00:17:35.490 --> 00:17:39.970 from your loved one and or together with God. 00:17:40.069 --> 00:17:44.430 I think they're together. Their spirits are united 00:17:44.430 --> 00:17:46.970 and our spirits are united with them too. I believe 00:17:46.970 --> 00:17:50.869 we are all connected. I believe that so profoundly. 00:17:51.529 --> 00:17:54.769 When, you know, when a loved one dies, it definitely 00:17:54.769 --> 00:17:58.650 changes. It changes you. And part of you does 00:17:58.650 --> 00:18:01.730 die with them. Everything seems to kind of turn 00:18:01.730 --> 00:18:05.289 upside down. And it seems like you're really 00:18:05.289 --> 00:18:08.730 alone, especially when something happens super 00:18:08.730 --> 00:18:12.750 suddenly and it's so shocking. And if it's a 00:18:12.750 --> 00:18:15.829 child, it's even that much more intense for sure. 00:18:16.210 --> 00:18:19.390 I think there's so many promises that God is 00:18:19.390 --> 00:18:23.029 close to the broken hearted. and to look for 00:18:23.029 --> 00:18:26.349 that presence of His love and comfort, that that 00:18:26.349 --> 00:18:30.349 infinite love is all around us all the time. 00:18:30.569 --> 00:18:34.950 When we're in a really dark place, the more we 00:18:34.950 --> 00:18:42.049 trust in that infinite, boundless, powerful love, 00:18:42.470 --> 00:18:46.049 trusting in it, Can make all of the difference 00:18:46.049 --> 00:18:49.890 you will see signs of it. I can give an example 00:18:49.890 --> 00:18:52.950 For instance when we put some of her ashes in 00:18:52.950 --> 00:18:56.970 the lake here one morning at sunrise Right after 00:18:56.970 --> 00:18:59.670 we put the ashes in the lake right in our eyes 00:18:59.670 --> 00:19:02.390 view flew an eagle like right in front of us 00:19:02.390 --> 00:19:04.730 That never has happened before. I don't know 00:19:04.730 --> 00:19:09.170 if it'll ever happen again. It was just so beautiful 00:19:09.170 --> 00:19:12.910 So I've had so many different things like that 00:19:12.910 --> 00:19:16.089 happen Another one is we were sitting on the 00:19:16.089 --> 00:19:19.450 front porch here and we were watching the celebration 00:19:19.450 --> 00:19:22.190 of life of her life in California by her friends 00:19:22.190 --> 00:19:25.410 there. And we're sitting on the porch with our 00:19:25.410 --> 00:19:27.470 friends who lost their son in an avalanche who 00:19:27.470 --> 00:19:30.769 was good friends with Mariah. And we are looking 00:19:30.769 --> 00:19:34.309 at it on the front porch and as it started the 00:19:34.309 --> 00:19:37.890 most incredible rainbow came out over the sky 00:19:37.890 --> 00:19:40.529 the most beautiful rainbow I've ever seen here. 00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:44.619 It just shows God's love, like He loves us so 00:19:44.619 --> 00:19:47.359 much, so very much. And that's one of the things 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:50.880 I've learned from listening to all the NDEs is 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:54.480 the most common element in so many of them is 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:57.980 the depth of love that people sense and the light. 00:19:58.279 --> 00:20:00.579 And I think that's why I'm so drawn to listening 00:20:00.579 --> 00:20:04.819 to them and reading about them is I've gone deeper 00:20:04.819 --> 00:20:09.250 into my faith and into my trust. of God's love 00:20:09.250 --> 00:20:12.990 for us, for every single person. And I think 00:20:12.990 --> 00:20:16.710 we can't forget that when we go through something 00:20:16.710 --> 00:20:19.970 super hard, that God is with us through all of 00:20:19.970 --> 00:20:22.809 it. His love is here, is always around us. We're 00:20:22.809 --> 00:20:26.089 not alone. And we are going to feel sad and we 00:20:26.089 --> 00:20:29.509 are going to fall into pits of darkness. But 00:20:29.509 --> 00:20:33.240 we we have to choose to cry out and call out 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:36.819 and ask God to help us and trust that he is right 00:20:36.819 --> 00:20:39.859 there all the time and when we do we will be 00:20:39.859 --> 00:20:44.200 lifted out of that darkness and Discover all 00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:46.980 kinds of wonderful things. There's this level 00:20:46.980 --> 00:20:51.680 of joy that's actually bubbled up out of the 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:56.079 depths of grief Sometimes I think our life experience 00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:59.349 is like a pendulum The more we experience the 00:20:59.349 --> 00:21:02.309 depth of pain and sorrow and suffering, the more 00:21:02.309 --> 00:21:04.970 the pendulum can swing over and feel the depths 00:21:04.970 --> 00:21:10.289 of joy and love. Absolutely. How much do you 00:21:10.289 --> 00:21:13.029 appreciate your health after you've been sick? 00:21:13.710 --> 00:21:15.769 Right. I mean, who wants to live in a world where 00:21:15.769 --> 00:21:18.690 it just moves a little bit, you know, like to 00:21:18.690 --> 00:21:22.369 be in a safe zone of not feeling hardly anything. 00:21:22.650 --> 00:21:25.509 Sometimes I do when the alternative is something 00:21:25.509 --> 00:21:29.420 super hard. I admit it. But no, I totally get 00:21:29.420 --> 00:21:31.920 and agree with what you're saying. The other 00:21:31.920 --> 00:21:35.480 point that has come up to me between talking 00:21:35.480 --> 00:21:38.660 with you and hearing Kate's story about sending 00:21:38.660 --> 00:21:42.759 you the letter is God's timing in things. She 00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:46.119 had been trying to send you that letter for a 00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:48.759 little while and people will have to go back 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:51.440 and listen to her episode to hear what all happened 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:56.230 with that. But her letter to you, just for some 00:21:56.230 --> 00:22:00.289 reason, got to you the exact day you needed it. 00:22:01.170 --> 00:22:03.910 Right? It sure did. Tell the listeners what was 00:22:03.910 --> 00:22:06.730 going on that day. It was a really hard day. 00:22:06.789 --> 00:22:08.589 It's something I've been putting off for a long, 00:22:08.950 --> 00:22:12.670 long time. I mean, I had so many months, but 00:22:12.670 --> 00:22:15.869 we had to write a victim statement for the court 00:22:15.869 --> 00:22:19.829 of the impact the crime had on our lives. And 00:22:19.829 --> 00:22:23.890 to put all of that in words was extremely painful 00:22:23.890 --> 00:22:31.029 and emotional. And I got Kate's letter. And I 00:22:31.029 --> 00:22:34.990 just couldn't believe the depth of love I felt 00:22:34.990 --> 00:22:38.230 in that letter and encouragement and the timing. 00:22:38.589 --> 00:22:41.329 I just was like, this is amazing that this letter 00:22:41.329 --> 00:22:46.329 came today, as I was working on this. And I actually 00:22:46.329 --> 00:22:50.890 have it right here. I just like love this. And 00:22:50.890 --> 00:22:53.759 I love to reread it. And I actually read it this 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:56.839 morning to my friends. Yeah, the timing, God's 00:22:56.839 --> 00:22:59.759 timing is so perfect. And the thing about God's 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:03.019 timing, part of my life lesson is being patient. 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:07.099 We live in a world of instantaneous everything 00:23:07.099 --> 00:23:12.000 when it comes to prayer and just how the whole 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:15.059 universe functions and how, you know, the infinite 00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:18.099 wisdom of our Creator is working all things out 00:23:18.099 --> 00:23:21.960 for good. We have to trust that process and a 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:24.900 lot of that requires patience But that's another 00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:27.799 way that God's love can be manifest is in the 00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:31.420 timing It's not just that you receive Kate's 00:23:31.420 --> 00:23:34.619 letter. It was when you received it, right? And 00:23:34.619 --> 00:23:38.299 that takes patience, but it's also I think shows 00:23:38.299 --> 00:23:41.819 his love as well and the timing of some of the 00:23:41.819 --> 00:23:43.859 other things that have happened with you with 00:23:43.859 --> 00:23:47.279 this and frankly the timing of the email that 00:23:47.279 --> 00:23:50.630 you sent me Was at a time I really needed it 00:23:50.630 --> 00:23:53.910 too and and it really meant a lot to me and I 00:23:53.910 --> 00:23:57.349 really appreciated that very much Lastly before 00:23:57.349 --> 00:24:01.109 I let you go Tell us about the foundation that 00:24:01.109 --> 00:24:05.289 you set up in memory of Mariah and why so Mariah? 00:24:05.589 --> 00:24:08.609 had written some of her last entries in her journal 00:24:08.609 --> 00:24:13.440 and what She was doing at the time of her death 00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:16.339 She she was reading a book called the second 00:24:16.339 --> 00:24:18.460 mountain by David Brooks And she was reading 00:24:18.460 --> 00:24:20.920 at a second time and she was underlining sections 00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:24.660 of it. It's called The second mountain forget 00:24:24.660 --> 00:24:27.819 the subtitle of it, but it's it's basically about 00:24:28.269 --> 00:24:31.490 The first mountain being finding success in the 00:24:31.490 --> 00:24:34.089 world, the job you've always wanted or the dream 00:24:34.089 --> 00:24:37.069 of your life coming true, the family you've always 00:24:37.069 --> 00:24:39.890 wanted, the spouse or the house or whatever, 00:24:40.210 --> 00:24:43.029 your worldly dreams are all kind of coming into 00:24:43.029 --> 00:24:45.210 place and kind of more or less you've gotten 00:24:45.210 --> 00:24:48.150 to that first mountain. And then the second mountain 00:24:48.150 --> 00:24:52.089 is taking all of your, you know, worldly success 00:24:52.089 --> 00:24:57.970 and accomplishments and then Turning them into 00:24:57.970 --> 00:25:01.069 doing good for others using your gifts and your 00:25:01.069 --> 00:25:03.890 talents and not using them all just for yourself 00:25:03.890 --> 00:25:07.609 but giving back I guess in the sense is to put 00:25:07.609 --> 00:25:11.650 in a simple term and so she was she was reading 00:25:11.650 --> 00:25:16.289 this book about the second mountain and. She 00:25:16.289 --> 00:25:19.130 was already thinking because she had achieved 00:25:19.130 --> 00:25:23.460 her dreams were coming true she had. reached 00:25:23.460 --> 00:25:26.319 the level of becoming a professional athlete. 00:25:26.980 --> 00:25:30.660 Now, being such a goal setter, she was always 00:25:30.660 --> 00:25:35.000 had to have a new goal. So she had kind of, in 00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:37.339 a sense, met this goal. And now she was like, 00:25:37.460 --> 00:25:40.579 now what's my next goal? So her next goal was 00:25:40.579 --> 00:25:44.839 to use her accomplishments, her platform as a 00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:48.480 successful athlete. And what can she do to help 00:25:48.480 --> 00:25:51.259 others and so she was writing in her journal 00:25:51.259 --> 00:25:54.740 you know some of her ideas like she just wanted 00:25:54.740 --> 00:25:58.579 to get kids on bikes in any form or fashion or 00:25:58.579 --> 00:26:01.019 what was the words you have to go to our website 00:26:01.019 --> 00:26:04.480 to read her words but it was about just making 00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:07.819 a difference in the lives of others. With her 00:26:07.819 --> 00:26:11.019 success that's what she wanted to do. No she 00:26:11.019 --> 00:26:13.240 wanted to get involved in some other organizations 00:26:13.240 --> 00:26:16.519 that would just lift others up and especially 00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:20.599 i think kids in general and women in sports so 00:26:20.599 --> 00:26:22.900 she had some of these goals she had written in 00:26:22.900 --> 00:26:27.240 a journal so we decided that we need to carry 00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:31.299 on her wishes and in order to do that we created 00:26:31.299 --> 00:26:34.160 the nonprofit the maria wilson foundation and 00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:38.079 so are our mission is to. I wish I had it in 00:26:38.079 --> 00:26:39.799 front of my face. I should know it by heart. 00:26:40.299 --> 00:26:43.900 It's basically to promote healthy lifestyles 00:26:43.900 --> 00:26:48.920 and building community and being active and helping 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:52.420 organizations that do those things. So we've 00:26:52.420 --> 00:26:56.220 accomplished, we achieved that goal in 2024. 00:26:56.799 --> 00:26:59.819 We were able to give to about eight or nine different 00:26:59.819 --> 00:27:03.650 organizations. It is brought us so much joy knowing 00:27:03.650 --> 00:27:07.670 that we are working in conjunction with my spirit 00:27:07.670 --> 00:27:11.589 and her love for others feeling close to her 00:27:11.589 --> 00:27:15.329 in the process and drawing others into that that 00:27:15.329 --> 00:27:18.750 beautiful space. It's it's made a huge difference 00:27:18.750 --> 00:27:22.130 you know and how we're dealing with this and 00:27:22.130 --> 00:27:25.730 i truly believe that and i claimed this the day 00:27:25.730 --> 00:27:28.609 that she died that. That beauty can come out 00:27:28.609 --> 00:27:33.109 of ashes, that good can come out of tragedy. 00:27:33.529 --> 00:27:38.309 When you choose to go that route, it can be incredible 00:27:38.309 --> 00:27:40.869 silver linings. We'll put a link in the show 00:27:40.869 --> 00:27:43.150 notes to the Foundation in case anybody wants 00:27:43.150 --> 00:27:46.529 to get involved. Can you leave us with any other 00:27:46.529 --> 00:27:49.089 message of hope? There's so much I could say 00:27:49.089 --> 00:27:53.309 about that. I think about that line in the poem 00:27:53.309 --> 00:27:56.799 that I read right around when she died. The one 00:27:56.799 --> 00:27:59.059 line that I kept reading over and over is it 00:27:59.059 --> 00:28:02.140 said, when there is life, there is hope. At one 00:28:02.140 --> 00:28:04.740 time that used to be like a common saying, but 00:28:04.740 --> 00:28:08.200 the, the person who wrote this poem said, I see 00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:12.519 it more true in reverse, that when there is hope, 00:28:12.859 --> 00:28:16.140 there's life. And that was what I was, that's 00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:18.839 what I was contemplating on that right around 00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:21.579 the moment of her death, when there was hope, 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:27.529 there is life. Like that's a beautiful. Picture 00:28:27.529 --> 00:28:31.849 our loved ones are still alive and have hope 00:28:31.849 --> 00:28:38.170 in that they do not stop existing and we will 00:28:38.170 --> 00:28:43.269 see them again and Trust how much God loves them 00:28:43.269 --> 00:28:46.950 and loves you don't give up just don't give up 00:28:46.950 --> 00:28:50.049 and Surrender to the fact that there's so much 00:28:50.049 --> 00:28:53.390 out of our control if you believe that God really 00:28:53.390 --> 00:28:56.660 loves you and he's in control of everything, 00:28:57.099 --> 00:29:00.000 then you don't need to worry and worry and worry 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:03.200 and be in fear. Perfect love casts out all fear. 00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:06.740 That's a promise that's in God's word. Perfect 00:29:06.740 --> 00:29:09.440 love casts out fear. Another beautiful image 00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:13.619 I have is hope is like a golden cord that connects 00:29:13.619 --> 00:29:17.200 us to heaven. That is where our eternal home 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:21.680 is. I love how ND ears express and explain how 00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:25.190 they had this feeling of being home. And what 00:29:25.190 --> 00:29:28.549 better feeling is there than feeling so at home? 00:29:29.029 --> 00:29:31.950 And we have so much to look forward to in our 00:29:31.950 --> 00:29:35.269 eternal home with our with our eternal family 00:29:35.269 --> 00:29:39.670 And it's just gonna be so beautiful And it's 00:29:39.670 --> 00:29:43.069 an adventure and just embrace the adventure for 00:29:43.069 --> 00:29:46.930 what it is Perfect. Thank you Karen. You're welcome 00:29:48.930 --> 00:29:51.829 Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast. 00:29:52.190 --> 00:29:54.509 Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button 00:29:54.509 --> 00:29:56.950 and sign up for our newsletter at roundtripdeath 00:29:56.950 --> 00:30:00.430 .com. If you want to share your near -death experience 00:30:00.430 --> 00:30:02.769 or if you have questions or comments about the 00:30:02.769 --> 00:30:05.630 show, send an email to eric at roundtripdeath 00:30:05.630 --> 00:30:08.809 .com. Until then, I wish you everything good 00:30:08.809 --> 00:30:11.109 that you're looking for in this life and the 00:30:11.109 --> 00:30:11.490 next.