From the time that they pronounced me dead was
a good 45 minutes. They cut my clothes and then
they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped and
I could see people screaming and crying but I
didn't realize that was actually my physical
body because I was somewhere else. The only thing
that I could feel if you could imagine absolute
love and peace, there wasn't anything else to
be felt. I was greeted by people I'd known in
the past. I'm back home again. Incredibly safe
and felt at home. Welcome, welcome to Round Trip
Death everybody. We're so excited to be here
today and we have a fun guest with us. Steve
Houghton from Virginia here in the United States.
How are you Stephen? I'm doing good. How about
yourself Eric? Good. Did I get Houghton correct?
That is the correct pronunciation. It's a hit
or miss on that name. Well. In the pre interview
you help me out with that so i was just happy
to remember so anyway it's good to see you again
you got an unusual a little bit scary. With a
happy ending kind of experience that we're gonna
be talking about before we jump into it would
you tell us a little bit about you and then i'll
direct you through some questions yeah. I grew
up in Virginia. It was sort of a broken family.
I guess I went through all the normal things
kids would go through with parents divorcing,
and I ended up being raised by my grandparents.
That ended up pushing me into the military pretty
early. Straight 18, I went right into the Coast
Guard. That was such a good experience, being
able to be a part of that organization. It really
let me... Explore and get out and do some wild
things. You'd never think you would do. I ended
up all the way in Africa, Liberia. Saving people
was one of the biggest things. I didn't really
keep track, but it was a pretty good number of
people I know that were still walking around
because I showed up. My career in the Coast Guard
kind of ended early because I've got back problems
and other disabilities. I was an alcoholic in
the military, a functioning alcoholic, but you
had to break things up. You had to go three days
on, two days off sort of deal. So you really
had to pace yourself. But when I got retired
and went to a government job, there's really
a lot less oversight. So the habit just grew
and grew. It got to the point during COVID, they
sent us all home. And all we had to do was text
in every morning that we're here alive, ready
to go if you needed us to come in. And that's
how it went for months. The drinking kind of
got really out of hand, ended up to a point where
I could not get myself drunk. And I guess that
was the big red flag for me was I have to drink
to function. At the point I had one son, he was
living with his mother. It just, it was a rough
adjustment to being a civilian. And I had to
go to the Veterans Affairs Hospital and ask them
for help on how to quit drinking. And I didn't
really put much research into that type of healthcare
or what I'd be looking at trying to quit drinking.
I just kind of went with it and did whatever
they said. It's just bouncing back and forth
on medications that you really feel like turn
you into a zombie. You get so frustrated with
it because it's so long in between these appointments,
you're just ready to give up. So I'd made up
in my mind, whatever this next medication they
gave me, I was going to do it. I was going to
quit drinking. We're going to lock this in. I
was over this. I would go to bed every night
and I really, I felt like it was my voice in
my head, but that voice doesn't say those things
anymore. So I would go to bed thinking, Alright,
tonight's the last night. I don't feel like waking
up with the stomach pain. I don't want to wake
up sick. I'm done drinking and there'd be a voice
that would literally curse me out and tell me,
no, you're not. You're going to go down tomorrow
at this time and pick this alcohol up. You're
going to do it. And I would just go along with
it. But when I really just decided we were going
to lock down, it was a medication called Topamax.
And I don't even really remember how it was supposed
to function or any of the side effects. I just
remember I didn't want to drink alcohol, but
I also just didn't want to do anything. I didn't
want to get up. I didn't want to move. I could
lay in bed for a day and a half and just stare
at the ceiling. It was very bizarre being in
that state, but I told myself, we're going to
get through this, a month of no drinking, and
I'm going to be able to say I can stop. Along
the way, I would feel really lightheaded. I wasn't
feeling good. I knew I was going through withdrawals,
but I didn't know. at what cost to your body,
quitting cold turkey from the amount of alcohol
I was drinking. So it got to a point where I
was roughhousing with one of my dogs and I started
feeling really lightheaded. I sat back down on
the couch. I asked my girlfriend, she's my wife
now, I asked her to go get me something sugary
to eat. Years earlier, I had done DMT. That was
that point in my life where I'm searching for
answers, what's going on. And when I started
really getting lightheaded, I started seeing
all these colors. The only thing I could attribute
that was it was like being on DMT. I even told
my girlfriend, my wife, I said, just give me
a minute. I'm having some sort of DMT trip. I'm
enjoying this, which was not a very smart thing
to do because I had not consumed DMT. And the
basic of that drug is it gives you the experience
of what your mind dumps into your brain as you're
dying. There's a chemical, it releases. It was
not very geometric. I don't know if you know
anything about DMT, but you can have these experiences
where you see very bizarre things. You feel like
you're in another realm. It's very geometric.
Everything's very precise. When this happened,
the whole room looked like it was melting. If
you've ever seen a chocolate fountain, how it
just comes down and waves. But in between each
wave was different bands of colors. And I mean,
they were just... the colors you can't describe
so i just kind of fell back into that and i remember
my head leaning back and it just getting heavy
and uh that was at the moment i died i didn't
know i was that dehydrated to the point where
when i was sitting up i wasn't able to get the
blood all the way back around i don't know what
i expected death to feel like but it definitely
wasn't what it felt like it was a very intoxicating
feeling at first you you would Relax right back
into that. That was something you wouldn't want
to get out of. If I can just make a noise. If
you've ever popped bubble wrap, it's really what
I felt what happened in my chest. When I came
out of my body, I didn't come out the way I was
facing. I don't know if you've ever played with
one of the little water snakes that'll run through
your hands. Yeah, sure. I felt like I was pulled
like that and pulled straight through and it
was like a mirror image is how I popped out facing
myself. Hey Steve, before we get deeper into
that, I want to make sure that people understand
the difference between this and a DMT experience.
So they don't think that that's what you were
having. So they understand that this was real
versus a drug -related thing. Yeah, I've probably
done most of the hallucinogenic drugs. You can
do mushrooms. I did once or twice. The DMT I
did once several times in a day. I use cannabis
cannabis really is not gonna give you a type
of delusion or hallucination. The mushroom is
it really affect with your visual cortex and
what you see it might really move things around
and then there's dmt dmt is is they call the
rocket ship. It's a very short acting drug it
is very powerful. You can feel like you've gone
to a different realm. You can walk around after
the drugs wearing off and it's almost like Tetris,
like the ruins in South America for their pyramids.
How everything sort of looks like Tetris, the
way things are blocked in. And you can see that
fabric kind of moving in and out. It's really
hard to explain. I don't think DMT is even in
a class of drug. Like the others because it's
such a profoundly different experience people
have Complete religious experiences with that
drug. It's hard for me to tell someone that I've
done that and I experienced that but the level
to which Things are intensified. I guess the
best way I can explain it through my understanding
is There's a veil a spiritual veil that's put
up In my religion, it's supposed to be separated
and we can't see it. But if you use certain chemicals,
roots, ayahuasca, you can basically enter into
that other dimension, I could say, illegally.
So anything that's out there can come and interact
with you. You can have a great experience. Something
could come up very peaceful and very nice, and
there's people that come out of those experiences
almost completely. ruined. I've seen people having
really bad experiences. When I came out of my
body, there was a very distinct separation of
me, my flesh, and the me that I was looking at
on that couch. I was looking at a dead body.
I don't know. When I did DMT, I could still feel
you're experiencing these things, but you can
still feel your body. It's hard to explain your
body not being there anymore and what you become
after. It'd be like if we were cartoons, I was
trying to explain to you what it felt like to
be an actual object, three dimensional. The intensity
with which everything was happening and the free
flow of information was overwhelming. I was not
your go to church every week Christian. I had
been out of church for at least 10 years. I'm
seeing things and I'm feeling things that you
just kind of remember by the side way. It's all
in front of me and it's not, it's not a welcoming
feeling. I can still see my girlfriend who was
my wife now. I keep saying that I could almost
see through the wall that she was out on the
porch calling 911 and I can still see these things
are going on. And I guess the best way to explain
it was I had taken no drug that would produce
any type of reaction like this. If anyone's experienced
or looked at a DMT trip, there's a profound level
of. You're going beyond what's normal, you're
in the supernatural. I can almost just say that
the great divide in between, wow, that's really
hard to believe, we're going to double that now.
It's hard to explain what I can't even show you.
Traveling instantly, information you're getting
from things. There was another being in the room,
I'm pretty sure it was an angel. I couldn't look
at it, but it could think inside my mind, it
could think to me. Let's do this Steve let's
go kind of chronologically i had just wanted
to establish to make sure listeners new you weren't
on any drugs you were hadn't even drinking for
a long time. This was a completely different
kind of experience so you come out of your body.
You mentioned looking down at your dead body
when you take us through step one two three from
there what happened. Yeah, as soon as I saw my
body, there was a curse word, oh, I'm dead. Something
responded back to me, like I said, through a
telepathic means. It was kind of a short, yeah,
you are. And there's no time really to soak any
of it in. The next thing that's going on in front
of me is there's a hole in the ground. It's just
blackness that I can't describe. I'm being pulled
into it. And I can feel The sin on my body on
my my spiritual body i could feel it. And there
was an understanding that i belong in this place
it wasn't that someone had sent me there. It
wasn't that god was mean and did this to me i
understood that that's my home i belong there.
End the dread that sets in just knowing you're
not coming back out. Don't get to say goodbye
to my son. I don't get to say goodbye to my dog.
I don't There's that's a one -way ticket. You
know it it's in your head and on top of that
the power That was emanating out of the being
that was in the room with her with me Was so
intense it would be just not something you would
even think of to run away or fight her There
was no point in trying to stop what was about
to happen. You could feel that. And the only
thing I could do is just beg for Jesus. I mean,
it spewed out of me. Jesus, please forgive me.
Forgive me, Jesus, please. It just couldn't stop
coming out as fast as I could get it out. And
I got a response back. And I mean, it was instant.
Everything changed that angel made fun of me
it's not so much in words it's more feelings
but if i can explain it to you would be if. You
beg for jesus i like to tune i said yeah dummy
good choice you know that was the real message
that was to me and i believe that this is angel
was not was not just present at that one point
in my life. It's not like we sat down and talk.
I never knew anybody I just met off the bat,
and I really disliked them as much as I could
feel that this thing disliked me. I understood
that it watched me do every stupid, foolish,
and shameful thing I had ever done. That's the
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Hey, no worries if you didn't remember it, it'll
be in the show notes. Now, back to the guest.
So you were calling out to Jesus. Were you a
big believer prior to that? Were you someone
that grew up going to church, for example? I
went to church, but we didn't go to a denominational
church. We were in and out in 20 minutes. I never
read the Bible. I believed in God. I would talk
to him. I would pray to him, but I had no relationship
with Jesus. I had never lived a day in my life
for anybody other than me because I had selfishly
Assume that because I grew up in a rough childhood
and things weren't good that I owed myself a
little bit of freedom so I could do this or I
could do that to establish that I have a life
of my own. So I was living life for me. I wasn't
living it for anybody else, let alone Jesus.
I don't know. I just never thought I would be
the one going to hell. I didn't think I was the
greatest person, but I really didn't think that
when I died, I'd be facing a hole I thought I
was going into heaven. That's not what's happening.
I get people to tell me all the time, this is
just what your mind built because you built these
ideas and constructs throughout your life. So
when your brain's dying, it copes by putting
things together. Your visual awareness isn't
exactly what you're seeing. Our brain kind of
fills in the missing gaps. But this was an experience
where I could sense and feel everything. I was
much more than what I just was in that body.
This is a dumbed down version of us. We're still
in the wrapper. I guess I could put it that way.
We haven't come out of the wrapper yet. You can't
really be used. You don't know how to see. You
don't know how to hear. You don't know these
things because you're you're not experiencing
it. You're shielded from this. So I asked for
forgiveness. I get made fun of and there's no
time. There's no, hey, we're getting ready to
go. There's no instruction. And I still haven't
looked at this thing. It's ridiculous. If there
was one thing I could do is go back in time and
one, tell myself to shut up because, I mean,
obviously you can see through this podcast. I
can get long winded and I really should have
looked at that angel because I, I'm curious.
I want to know what it looked like. But if I
could say there was a live tiger in the room
right behind you and you could feel it breathing
down your neck, you wouldn't turn around. You
wouldn't. The same tiger you would wave at at
the zoo, there's no more bars. You can feel that.
So we're moving. We've just left where we are.
There's no tunnel. There's no time. I'm just
approaching a very, very big mountain. I guess
I could say I don't have much context. I haven't
gone and seen the Himalayan Mountains. I haven't
gone to the Rockies. But this was not a mountain
range. It was a singular mountain. And it just
went on so much that I could feel it bending
around my peripheral vision. And as I turned,
it was almost like hourglass. You know, bugs
have like a compound vision. It almost felt like
that. It was really messing with my head to try
to look at this thing and see how big it was.
It's hard to explain that, but it's so big it
messes with your eyes. I just had this and I'm
telling you, I don't I didn't really get in the
Bible. I didn't read it like I should, but. That's
Mount Zion. I instantly know this now. So we're
coming up to Mount Zion, but I can still feel
sin. We haven't addressed that. It's still on
me and I don't even really feel like we stopped.
I can feel like we slowed down because I'm not
supposed, I'm not clean. And just as fast as
you could snap your fingers, all that was gone
in an instant. That was one thing that really
blew my mind is I thought that that would be
like some sort of Big ordeal to get all this
sent off of me. We just mentioned it. Now it's
gone. It's gone. We're still traveling up the
mountain that that's that's all I have to say
on that it's gone and we're flying up this mountain.
We're getting closer and I would say we're a
couple hundred feet up and I'm trying to just
take in what I'm seeing. But the whole time it's
just vomiting out of me. Please let me go back.
I need to go back for my son. I have to go back
for Ashley I have to go back for Bryce and I
couldn't I couldn't make myself stop. It just
kept coming out You know, I look back on this
now and I have to put some of these puzzle pieces
together and go I had taken all the sin off of
me So these things that I'm saying cannot be
not true They can't be a lie So like I can lean
on these words knowing like no my son and my
wife They need me because at this point my son
he didn't live with me and he was he was struggling
during kovat with school and he was struggling
with depression where he lived he wasn't going
to get any Any help with that those people were
just very busy with their careers. They they
worked all the time So there was no time to address
the child in the room playing video games Didn't
even have custody of him and I knew that if I
didn't go back and tell him what I saw He wasn't
gonna be getting in church and he wasn't going
to be aware of the things I'm aware of it There's
a real sense of dread is I need to go warn everyone.
We're still flying up the mountain I'm still
not even looking at this angel and I don't even
think it's paying any attention to me But as
we're going up and this is where everybody if
you want to have a chance to say I'm just crazy
and out of my mind Here it is, because when I
saw it, I thought I was crazy and out of my mind.
We're going up. I can see furrowed land like
a farm, and there's like a little fenced in stable
area, and there is a sauropod. There is a small,
long -necked dinosaur in a stable with children
playing around. I stopped everything. I wasn't
even talking about my son anymore, and I was
just thinking in my head, what's going on now?
Now I'm seeing dinosaurs. What in the world is
going on? If you want to go back in the Bible,
it's there. It's in Job. It talks about the long
-necked beast with the tail the size of trees
and it shook the land. We really like to put
Jesus in a box and say, well, you can't have
that in heaven or you're not going to have an
animal. After what I experienced, if God made
a four -legged long -necked dinosaur that made
the ground shake, I'm pretty sure it's in heaven
too. Anything he created that shows glory to
him, anything that's amazing, it's up there.
That's another feeling you get. So yeah, as I'm
looking back, just trying to figure out what
I just saw, kids playing with a dinosaur, we
finally come to the top of the mountain. Once
again, I was not in the Bible and the Old Testament
enough to know what a tabernacle was, or what
the altar was for, or any of this, but as I saw
an altar, A stone altar, it's not very big, but
I could tell that's the altar of the tabernacle.
And Jesus' cross is in it. There's fire, but
Jesus' cross is not burning at all. I can know
with information, just once you see it, that
cross is never going to burn. It's going to sustain
that fire. That fire is God's wrath. That cross
is going to be there. That fire can chew on it
forever, and it's not going to go away. I can
tell that. The cross is not a nice looking piece
of wood. It is ugly. It looks like if you took
up a couple railroad ties and stuck them together,
you know, wood that you know you just touch it,
you're going to get splinters. Just nasty. Just
knowing that was awful enough that Jesus was
on that puts in a different perspective. We don't
even like to really understand. It wasn't until
a couple of weeks ago I had seen something that
had said that In Roman times, the sponge on a
stick and vinegar was communal toilet paper.
That's how they wiped themselves and would put
it back in that so the vinegar would clean it.
When Jesus said, I thirst, and they took the
sponge with vinegar, that was the same sponge
with vinegar they're using. That is what they
made him drink. We don't understand the depravity.
the awfulness of what went on that day on that
week, we can't put it together. We'll see it
one day and we'll really understand. But just
being that close to the cross, I understood that
that's pain unimaginable. And just like Moses
saw the bush that was burning, that was consumed
in flames, but would not burn, that's the wood
we're talking about. If you go back into the
Old Testament, one of the high priest duties
is to never let the fire burn out. of that altar.
It's actually a big turning point with Samuel.
There we go, Samuel. I could tell that that was
what that was for. That wood has another thing
I got to realize is that Jesus never does just
one thing. He's doing many things at once every
time. When he died on that cross, yes, he bore
our sins, but he was also grabbing that piece
of wood that was covered in his blood, and that
was going to be the object that satisfied God's
wrath forever. to separate us from that wrath.
And when I looked up, this is one thing I had
to look up, because I didn't know why it was.
It was there. Instead of Pilate's sign that said,
here's Jesus, King of the Jews, that wasn't part
of the cross. That was nailed to it. That burned
right away. And its place is a molten golden
crown. It's just liquid gold. It looks exactly
like a crown. And it's floating, and as the fire's
hitting it, you can see the waves just causing
ripples through this golden crown. As I laid
my eyes on that crown, the only thing I could
put together is Jesus is God. I stopped talking
altogether. And that's when that angel, I'm telling
you, things just moved so fast. I probably was
in heaven less than 20 seconds. I mean, it was
just fleeting. The angel says, last chance, staying
or leaving. And I'm telling you, with all of
my spirit, I was trying to pull myself back into
my body the whole time. And I said, I have to
go back. I have to go back for my son. There
again, no instruction, no get ready. Everything
is now black. All I know is what I was is being
compressed very, very hard and very small. I
can imagine if somehow I could grab you and crush
you into the size of a Coke can. That's how it
felt. I can't see, I can't hear, but I can feel
this crush. And I guess I feel myself get put
back in my body. And this immense pressure is
so bad. I don't have enough blood going to my
eyes or ears. I can't see, I can't hear. I do
know I'm vomiting. I know I am projectile vomiting
like the exorcist. Like I can feel a stream.
Shooting out of me. I mean far looking back on
it. I don't know how to explain it But whether
it was that angel or God himself or Jesus They
reached inside of me and started my heart again.
That's the only thing I could describe would
be that Powerful of a crushing feeling inside
of me. I felt my heart get started again as I'm
vomiting slowly I'm starting to get ringing Just
like the ringing in your ears is coming back
And it's just slowly, you know how if you've
ever been on a roller coaster that's gone really
fast, how it kind of starts to black out. It's
doing this in reverse. I'm starting to come back
to light. I wasn't awake two seconds before I
was jumping up and down, laughing and just proclaiming,
I saw heaven. Heaven is real. Jumping around
the room like a lunatic. And the only thing that
stopped me was looking at my biological mother
was in the room at the time. my wife, and both
of them are crying. And that stops me. And now
my brain's starting to try to put stuff back
together. Like, okay, this did just happen. I
just died. The thing I know is I'm soiling myself.
When you die, it happens. So that's the next
thing on my mind is I'm standing in front of
people going to the bathroom. I need to get in
the shower. So I'm running to get in the shower
and I stop. Like it was something that stopped
me. It was so... terrifying. I looked at myself
in the mirror and I could see my skull and my
cheekbones around my eyes because there had not
been enough blood pumped around. From the time
I got up to the time I ran to the bathroom was
less than a minute. I can see a dead man in the
mirror. It is grotesque. I'm not afraid of horror
movies. I'm not afraid of gore. I've been to
poor countries where terrible things are done.
Looking at yourself dead will make you cry. And
the best way I can explain it is if I had given
you a very fine vase and you broke it and there
was no putting that back together, I could still
see how bad I had broken this body, that I had
killed it. I didn't think I was anywhere near
death. That experience ends and there's not like
a follow -up. I don't get a ring from an angel.
There's no checklist on what to do next. Transitioning
from the military to civilian world was difficult.
Positioning from I died and saw hell and heaven,
now what do I do is very difficult. I would get
to points where I would wake up with my hands
on my face sobbing because I had agreed to come
back. Why did I agree to come back? Because things
were not going good. did not have custody of
my son. He was not doing good in school. I was
losing my disability paycheck. I didn't know
how I was going to pay the mortgage. Everything
was falling apart right in front of me. And I'm
powerless. I just died a couple of weeks ago.
Now I'm losing a house. What do I do? I can't
get a job anywhere. Just this destitute feeling.
What did I do? And I think the best thing I can
tell people right now is if you're struggling,
if it hurts so bad that you can't, you just can't
stand it. It won't work. You can't wake up anymore.
That's not the end. That's the beginning. It's
a hard thing to say. Growing up my whole life,
I always felt like I belonged to somebody else.
I was passed off by these parents to these grandparents.
They didn't want to raise kids, but they just
had to. So we had to work and help them make
ends meet. And in my head, in my selfish thought,
I feel like a slave. I feel like I belong to
somebody else. I never feel like I belong to
myself. I went straight into the military and
then got married. I don't feel like there's any
of me now. If the military doesn't own it, my
wife owns it. Well, now I've been separated from
the military and my wife, and they still want
to own everything too. So you feel stripped of
everything. There's a point to that. It isn't
until we're stripped down to nothing that we're
ready to start building it up. You can't start
unless the foundation is firm. And whatever I
had built up in my life, through the military,
being an important person, rescuing people, doing
all this, I had to let all that go. The thing
I feel like Jesus asked me all the time is, how
low can you go? How low can you go, Stephen?
We're gonna walk down the street today and everybody's
gonna spit on us Steven. Are you gonna come along?"
And how many times I said no and let Jesus, because
every day people hate Jesus. They hate him. But
I let him walk through that. I still do it now.
I failed Jesus on a daily basis. I feel like
I wake up and we're on that mountain and Jesus
goes, hey, you want to go a little bit higher
today? I think you can make it higher today,
Eric. Let's go. And I always fail. and it's never
a feeling like you failed me, I don't want you,
or you're never going to get it. It's every day.
You're going to give me some more Stephen? Stephen,
can you give me a little more? Stephen, will
you walk behind me while these people talk bad
about me? Will you love them? Will you love them
like your family, like I loved you when you didn't
love me at all? It's a hard thing to do. It's
a hard thing to love people who don't want anything
to do with you. The way I can describe it is
I'm in this lifeboat now and I'm trying to tell
you yours has got a hole in it. Not because I'm
smarter and you're not or anything, because I
was on that boat a minute ago and this is the
boat I got on and there is no holes. This boat
works. Trying to change someone's mind is very
hard. I want it first to happen. I really believe
that I've seen heaven and hell. I can tell everybody.
I can get on the news and I can tell them this
happened. We all need to know. In the Bible,
it talks about Lazarus and the rich man. Lazarus
dies and goes to paradise. Abraham's bosom, that's
the other hollow part inside the earth. And the
rich man goes to hell. And one of the things
the rich man says is, let me go back to my family
so I can warn them that they don't come to this
place. And Abraham responds to them, you've had
all the prophets and all the scripture. Why would
they believe you? And I cannot tell you how true
that is. I cannot tell you how many different
ways I've been told that I'm very uneducated.
And I'm not. I'm not educated. I can't tell you
how many times I've been told I'm crazy. Yeah,
I'm crazy. But my question to anybody else is,
because I'm uneducated and crazy, does that mean
I'm wrong? No. So, Steve, you mentioned that
you had never read the Bible before. Your experience
happened five years ago. Sounds like you've read
it a lot since, haven't you? I had to get into
it because how else could I get to know Him?
I couldn't just talk to Him. I didn't know how
to do that. We can pray and we can get very close
to God, but I didn't know how to pray. It says
we can come boldly before the King. Because of
Jesus, we can walk in. Back in the day, if you
barged into the king's quarters, you'd lose your
head. The Bible says we come before him boldly.
One of the main things I want to tell people
is get the correct perspective. He is so much
higher than us, positionally speaking. We are
insignificant. His love on us is the only thing
that makes us important. But when we approach
that type of power, we need to approach it understanding
that I don't actually deserve the ability to
be talking to you right now. The only reason
I am is because you came down as Jesus, your
son, and died. I have a two -year -old son, and
I've got another one on the way. I couldn't give
him up for anything in the world. I love that
little boy so intensely. It's a feeling I can't
explain. And there's days I think, man, I'm going
back to hell. I deserve it. And then I look at
my son, and I know because I felt this love from
Jesus. Jesus loves my baby more than I do. I'm
not physically capable of that. But he also loves
me that same way. And I could never tell my son,
you're not good enough. You failed me and I'm
embarrassed of you. No, there's unconditional
love there. People don't understand that either.
You don't have to fix yourself up. And you don't
have to listen to people that say, oh, you're
going to hell for this, for that. I'll tell you
something, I know why God... When I think about
why God picked me to do and say this, one, it
scares me for all of you. If the workers are
so thin, I made it to the inspection line and
I got a job. It really means that there's not
really that many quality people that want to
do this. I'm not saying that the people who are
doing it are not quality. I'm saying I lived
a life only for me and I accomplished nothing.
And after this experience, when I broke down
to my lowest, I said, God, Jesus, I can't make
a right decision to save my life, literally.
I can't do, it's all falling apart. So if you
can give me anything to do, I'll do it because
I can't do any of this. Everything I touch is
sand. It's like trying to hold sand together.
It just goes up between your fingers. So if you've
got anything to do for me, I'd like to do it.
Another thing I told God was, I wanna do it without
you having to tell me a bunch and I wanna do
it without me asking you a lot of questions.
Because one of the things I find out is we really
don't treat Jesus anywhere the way we should.
So maybe if I just stop asking him why you're
doing this or what's gonna happen, maybe if I
just said, yes, I'll do it, maybe Jesus would
get a break off of me for a little bit. Maybe
I would stop being such a subject of sorrow.
Alright, Steve. I have had so many questions
as you've been talking, but I wanted to I didn't
want to interrupt I want to let you finish and
you did a fantastic job and wow What an experience
is all I can say to start with but in no particular
order I just want to ask you some things about
what happened for example the mountain that you
were going up Tell me a little bit about what
it looked like was green. Was it snowy? What
was it like? It was like something you would
paint on a It was beautiful green. It was full
of life. The people were emanating light. People
were cheering for me. I could tell that as I
was going up that mountain. There were people
cheering for me. A lot of people say they got
to meet loved ones and they got to see people.
I heard a whistle. That's a loudest whistle.
My grandfather, we'd be, we had like two acres
that went down into the woods and to a creek.
He could whistle us back to the house from the
yard. And I look back on that sometimes and I
cry thinking, I didn't get to look at grandpa
and say hi. Like, was that him? There's people
there. There's animals. I saw plowed land where
you could plant stuff. We're obviously going
to be eating food. I didn't feel like I was in
a vapor body. I felt just like me. I felt more
like me than I do now. You mentioned animals.
You mentioned seeing a dinosaur. Yeah. And Steve,
I just want to give you a little word of warning.
People that see these things on YouTube tend
to comment a lot, and we welcome all the comments.
We had another guest on recently that mentioned
seeing a dinosaur in their experience, and a
few people on YouTube really railed on them for
it, just saying that's stupid, that can't be
possible. I believe you, okay? And I want you
to know that I believe you. I'm just warning
you, you're going to get a little negative feedback
from some stuff and it's unfortunate, but people
are going to say what they're going to say and
we don't care. And I understand that. I honestly,
I welcome any, anything. If you want to tell
me to my face to, I've been told many things
to go do. You can do that because that's the
type of person I'm trying to talk to. As far
as the dinosaur goes, I really look at that as
my one talking point to tell you I'm not making
this up because If I made this up, I definitely
would have left that out because it would have
been ridiculous. Yeah, you wouldn't want to sound
crazy if you were making something up. I have
to tell the truth. I can't not tell that because
it was so fast on that mountain. I spoke a lot
about it, but I have had more encounters after
this. I met a man whose son had died on a motorcycle
he'd bought for his 16th birthday. We were supposed
to go to Israel. The night I purchased my tickets
was the night that that terrorist attack happened.
Our flights got canceled and I told my son, we'll
go wherever God tells us to go and we're gonna
do whatever he says. We got on planes the next
trip we're going out. We're going to Belize.
The jet is breaking down on the runway. They
keep beating us on and we keep getting off. We
didn't make that flight. They had to fly us cross
country to Texas. And I didn't know there's only
two flights to Belize from America a week. Like
you'd miss them, that's it. told Bryce, I said,
we're gonna let God pick our seats. I'm not even
doing that. So this flight from Texas, we were
in the very back and there's a man sitting next
to me and he had the same wedding band I had.
It had the Lord's Prayer on it. I'd lost mine.
I said, I know you're saved. Lo and behold, it
was the missionary to that entire country. He
told me exactly how to get into the country,
what paperwork I was gonna have to fill out when
I got off of. Exactly everything I had to do
was told to me. All because I didn't get out
on that first day on that jet. When I get in
country, I think I'm gonna go help people and
do something. I instantly get sick and I'm urinating
blood. I can't move. I'm in a shower and I can't
move. I'm having multiple kidney stones. I guess
the jets landing had rattled them loose. I mean,
I really feel like I'm dying. It's not a fun
thing to have. The whole time I just feel like
Noah when he was naked. My son was having to
go downstairs and get cranberry juice from the
bar. come bring up to me and I can't even cover
myself. That's how useless I can't move. And
the first day that I could get down there, I
went down there and was getting some more cranberry
juice. And the bartender talks to me, I don't
know where you're Steve, I want to be like you,
but I don't know how to. Mercedes, would you
tell me what's going on? He says, I drink and
I use drugs and I do things, but there's a scar
on my heart. I said, well, tell me. Ain't nothing
I can't figure out. He goes, I gave my son a
motorcycle, and he died on that motorcycle I
gave him for his birthday. And then my wife took
my other children and left to America, and I
haven't seen them since. What words do I have
for someone like that? You know, I have no experience.
But in retrospect, it really wasn't me. It was
watching my son go up and take care of me is
what made his heart weak. He saw his son in mine.
And I did have words for him, and they weren't
mine. I told him, I said, the devil's going to
tell you every day your son's gone. But you know
what Jesus is saying. He says, I got your son
right here, and we're both waiting on you. And
we're both heartbroken because you're doing this
to yourself. And after we had that conversation,
he ended up talking to his mom. And she starts
talking about, oh, my prayers are answered. My
prayers are answered. And he said, mom. You kept
on saying one day I was going to pray, and an
angel would come down and tell me something.
And she said, honey, do you think I'm ridiculous?
She said, I did not think the Archangel Michael
was going to come down and talk to you. She said
the Holy Ghost was going to go put it on someone,
and they were going to give the message that
you needed to hear, and it was going to get sent
to you. And when he told me that, still right
now, the hair just stands up on my arms. How
did I end up in the outer banks of Belize? I
just picked a spot on a map. I just picked a
resort, I just picked this and we just showed
up here. I was sent here to talk to you because
God wants you to know that's not true. These
things that happen that you think are your fault
and you have to drink all this away and bury
it with drugs, not true. And one more thing I
want to say is I told God I want to do things
without asking questions or having to bother
you. I really assumed a lot of responsibility.
I'm still paying off medical bills from a surgery
I had to have from that. I do believe if God
had told me, hey, Stephen, you're going to go
to this country and you're going to pee out four
nasty kidney stones and there's no medical help
on this island, I would not have gone. I promise
you, I would not have gone. I can't do that.
But because I told the Lord that I wouldn't ask
questions and I'd go do it, I did something that
I couldn't do. And it wasn't through me, but
someone somehow got a message to this man that
it's all right. Your son's here. I've sent you
somebody that's seen the mountain. They're going
to tell you it's all real. And I get to meet
people everywhere I go. And when I was in Belize,
I met a woman who had a, she was in a coma and
she said Jesus met her and brought her out of
it. I met the owner of q daddy's barbecue i don't
know if that's just in virginia or a larger chain
but i didn't know i was talking to the owner
i told him my story said. I was in iraq and i
stepped on an id and eod the explosive detail.
Was there and they tried to disarm the bomb and
they couldn't and they literally told this guy
we're sorry but we're going back away and you
have to get off this thing whatever happens happens
later you find out that. terrorist will make
pressure switch plates that will go off after
two or three times that they're stepped on because
they don't want to hit the first man in the group.
They want to hit the middle of the group. So
that's obviously what he did. But he told me
as he got ready to step off of this bomb that
an audible voice told him, you're not going to
die today. I just wanted your attention. I get
these stories all the time. They happen all the
time. If you're hurting and you're feeling like
nobody's there and there's nothing, that's not
true. You can ask for help if you don't believe
in it's me or Jesus. I tell people all the time
You don't have to believe me. I believe enough
if you ask. Hey Jesus. Are you there? Will you
show me? You'll have your own experience. You
don't have to rely on me. If anything, I'm just
trying to warn people Don't be so secure. If
you if you think you are good and you are going
to heaven I hope you are and I hope you have
that relationship with Jesus because that's the
thing I learned that day was I didn't have a
relationship with Jesus I have one with him now.
I'm still afraid for the day I go back that he'll
say, Stephen, you didn't talk to the one person
I really wanted you to. You didn't talk to them.
I'm so afraid to waste this second chance. That's
the only fear I have. I don't have a fear of
dying. I just have a fear of letting Jesus down
because it's gonna happen. I've got to try not
to. And that's the struggle we all go through.
But that's the thing people need to learn is
you're not gonna get clean in this life. You're
not going to fix it. And if anything, the world's
going to come crashing down on you as soon as
you get close to anything supernatural. You'll
see a dinosaur too, and then everybody will tell
you you're a moron. But you'll have your experience,
and then you can go to bed at night safe. Hell
opened up less than 10 feet from where I go to
bed every night. I don't ever think about that
again. I don't ever worry about it. That's not
something in my brain that doesn't even make
sense. Does He expect us to be perfect? No. No.
What does He expect of us? He expects us to be
like children. Children who love our Father.
And He brought you down to a humbled position
where you had no choice but to do that. And you
did that. And you called out to Him. Isn't it
interesting how some people who, I've heard this
from other people before too, that weren't very
much of believers but for some reason something
in them when they got desperate were calling
out to Jesus anyway, even if an hour before if
you would ask them they would have said, I don't
know if I believe that stuff. It's funny that
people talk about matters of the heart and I
have people tell me, God will judge me on my
heart. That's in the Bible and you don't want
that. But they found a patch of neurons on the
heart. There's brain material on your heart So
when people are talking about my heart hurts
or what it's what the heart wants Yeah, that's
a real thing and it says in the Bible. You've
got to circumcise the heart meaning Your heart's
desires have to be let go Because those are what
are gonna keep pulling you down and you're not
gonna you'll never satisfy that It's an insatiable
thing once we get a little of whatever we want.
We want all of it But how low can you go? Can
you cut your heart out for me? And as soon as
it's empty, guess what? You're gonna realize
it's full. You're born with a body, we all know
that. And most of us believe we're born with
a soul. But through the Christian teachings,
you will get the spirit of God to come into you.
And if you read into it, it's got like quantum
mechanics, quantum entanglement going on. No
matter where I am, I can stay with you. There's
no distance. We can communicate. That sort of
stuff is being resonated. when your heart's let
out empty, it's ready to get filled back up.
All right, very last thing today, and then I'm
going to let you go, Steve. And by the way, I've
appreciated your time and your insights. I just
want you to leave us with one last thought, and
that is, if somebody listening today doesn't
know whether they should believe in, I'm just
going to say generic, a God and an afterlife,
in your opinion, based on your experience, why
should they or shouldn't they believe? in my
dealings afterwards and my work afterwards to
get to this relationship with the supernatural.
I don't ever talk to someone I'm not supposed
to talk to. It's a very bizarre world. I ended
up talking to a woman that had kidney problems
and all of a sudden we're talking about her husband
that committed suicide and she's talking to her
estranged dad. There's someone that's hearing
what I'm saying. And that's not thinking, all
right, you're crazy, that's a dinosaur. There's
someone I'm talking to that knows I'm talking
to them. I'm not trying to argue with people
that don't want to agree with me. That's fine.
We're not going to agree. But there's someone
that's going to watch this that goes, they're
talking to me. They've been talking to me. Yes,
I'm talking to you 100%. And you don't have to
believe me. You don't have to go look it up.
If you need God, you call out and you say, if
you're there, I don't know who you are. I don't
know if you're there. It says with an open heart,
you can't say, God, you're not there and you
don't show yourself. And then whatever, go on.
If you have an open heart and say, if you're
God, you are God and King of the universe. And
I get down on my hands and knees and it's usually
because things aren't going well. I've never
met someone that was just... Things were going
so great, they needed to talk to Jesus about
it. We're just not built that way. If it's so
much you can't handle it, say, God, I can't handle
it anymore. It's crushing me. I'm not going to
make it. I need you to lift it. God says his
yoke is easy. He's going to take most of that
burden. Give it a shot. Be open to it. And I'm
telling you, I have no ESP power. I can't make
anything move. I'm a regular person. But if I,
with my heart, my whole heart. You got to get
it out. Ask God, why is this happening? Why can't
I? Where do I go? If that's you, ask him. Ask
him to show you. It'll happen. But you have to
look for it. You have to be waiting. You can't
ask for something and demand it from the God
of the universe and expect it to be here tomorrow,
first class mail. It's going to happen when it
should happen. how it should happen. So many
times in my life I've been greedy or, God, why
hasn't this happened? And man, I want it to happen
now every single time when it happens because
I've kept my faith and I have all the feelings
everybody else does. Why did this happen? Why,
why? But I won't yell out, why did you do this
or make it better? I just keep saying, forgive
me. Forgive me for feeling this way because I
know it's not right. But I feel a certain way,
God, it doesn't feel good. God's playing chess
with all the pieces. We're one of the pawns.
We don't get to see the moves. If you're facing
the queen and you know you're going to die, go
ahead and face it because you don't know what's
next to you. You can't see that far. But when
you get there, it'll make sense and it'll help
you. I've never done something that I've felt
like, oh yeah, God, I can do that. That's easy.
Every time I've gone, God, I don't know if I
can do that. I don't know if I can do that. Guess
what? He knows a little bit more than you. It'll
be okay, I promise. You just gotta put your arms
out. That's it. It's just like, dad, I need someone.
Just as a child, that's how you need to be. Break
it down to how I feel when my son puts his arms
out for me, if he's been hurt, the way I hold
him and he grabs me around my neck, ask for that
from God and you'll get it. Because if you are
his child and you're asking for him, why wouldn't
he come get you and hold you? Thank you for your
insights. I really appreciate it. Should we have
any fear of death? There is no fear of death
for me. I'm going home. I'm ready to go home.
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button
and sign up for our newsletter at roundtripdeath
.com. If you want to share your near -death experience,
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show, send an email to eric at roundtripdeath
.com. Until then, I wish you everything good
that you're looking for in this life and the
next.