From the time that they pronounced me dead was
a good 45 minutes. They cut my clothes and then
they paddled. My heart, my heart had stopped
and I could see people screaming and crying but
I didn't realize that was actually my physical
body because I was somewhere else. The only thing
that I could feel if you could imagine absolute
love and peace there wasn't anything else to
be felt. I was greeted by people I'd known in
the past. I'm back home again. Incredibly safe
and felt at home. Welcome, welcome to Round Trip
Death, everybody. And a hearty welcome to our
special guest from Lloyd, Florida. And our guest
today is Michelle Ledbetter. Good morning, Michelle.
How are you? Good morning. It's so nice to be
here with you. Thank you for the invitation.
Thank you. I just want to give people a little
idea upfront. This is going to be so cool because
we're going to be talking about your deer death
experience and the fact that you are a hospice
nurse and there are really cool stories that
can come from that, that are faith promoting
and messages of hope. We haven't had a hospice
nurse on for a while. Geez, Michelle, this is
the first time we've talked and I feel like we're
old friends already. I do too. That's nice. Hey,
before we jump in, tell us a little bit about
you. Who's Michelle? Okay. I'm a registered nurse.
I am certified in hospice and palliative care,
and I have been a hospice nurse for a little
over 20 years now. My career in nursing has been
30 years, but my heart and soul and connection
is with hospice. I am a mother of two beautiful
daughters and a grandmother of four grandchildren
and two bonus grandchildren. had a near -death
experience myself that completely changed my
view of life and the way I see it. And I hope
that my message resonates with those who are
ready to hear it. I'm not here to change anybody's
mind. I'm just here to share my story. Hopefully
if you can see something that is a flicker for
you, I'm here to support you through that too.
So yeah. Perfect intro. And for anyone who may
be new to the show. I love how you put that because
we're not trying to change anybody's mind. We
stay very non -denominational. We're not trying
to push any agenda. We just want to hear people's
stories. And they always tend to bring us some
hope. And that's what we're trying to spread
in the world out there. And by the way, aren't
daughters the best? Yes, they really are. But
they can be a challenge too. Now these grandbabies,
let me tell you, they're something else. Well,
they're better than the best. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
All right. Let's jump into it. How long ago was
it that you were in the bad car accident that
led to your NDE? Yes. So my accident actually
occurred on February 13th, 2019. And my altered
reality near -death experience happened the morning
of Valentine's Day when I was in surgery. And
then it kind of went through a five -day period
where I don't really know exactly where it happened,
but somewhere in that period. Tell me about the
accident. What happened and how badly were you
hurt? Sure. I was traveling as a hospice nurse
and I had finished one assignment and I was on
my way to a new assignment from Montana to Texas
and there was a storm, snowstorm that was coming.
I'm a Florida girl. That's a long drive. A long
drive. Holy cow. Yeah, super long. And part of
it was probably the fatigue because I was moving
into the Colorado area when I had the accident.
So the snow was just blowing sideways. And I
was of the mindset, just keep going. And it was
around 7 o 'clock at night, and I started around
7 in the morning. I was following some truck
lights in front of me because the wind, I couldn't
see the road. So I was following those truck
lights and he went up over a pass and I missed
the pass. And so I don't remember anything. I
came down off the embankment and when my car
came down, I had an L1 burst fracture, broken
spine and a traumatic closed head injury. My
first memory was Waking and I had a profound
sense of peace where you would otherwise think
I would have been just a crazy hot mess and it
was to the paramedics and they were Attempting
to get me from the car, but I just felt so peaceful
There was no fear there and I was traveling with
my little dog They took us to the first hospital
these two paramedics that were just angelic.
I could almost see them as angels because I felt
so peaceful and so held. They were wonderful.
They took me to the first place that we did imaging
and they realized that they needed to do urgent
surgery and so at that point there was a nurse
there that they had let my little dog stay with
me on my lap the whole time and I was able to
engage but I was kind of in and out and so the
nurse that was with me before. They were getting
ready to transfer me to a trauma unit. They were
talking about impounding my little dog. And she
knows me from no one. And it was almost like
I saw the godliness for the first time in someone.
And she said, honey, I got you. I'm going to
take your little dog home. And for as long as
it takes for you to recuperate, I got you. It's
like, wow, OK. And so I was just feeling loved.
I was feeling embrace and peacefully held. The
neurosurgeon came in and said, we're going to
have to transfer you to the trauma unit. We don't
have time to mess around. And he told me some
astronomical amount of surgeries he's done. And
I say 10. I'm not real sure. Again, my brain
was really kind of a mess. And that's when the
first fear, well, actually the second fear, the
first fear. came up when they said they were
going to impound my little dog. And then the
second fear came up when he told me he had done
all these surgeries and then he was going to
go on my spine. It was a new day, brand new day,
and I was a little nervous then. But I still
felt a sense of peace. And so I don't remember
going into the OR. I don't remember being put
to sleep or anything like that. What happened
next was the experience that came. So the way
it presented was in a warehouse type setting,
for lack of a better word. It was a very dark,
cold, damp atmosphere. And the beginning of it
was I felt the presence of my children behind
me and I was wanting to pull them into this warehouse
that I was in. I didn't know what I was doing,
but I turned to look at them. to invite me. I'm
not speaking to them, but it's like you can hear
their thoughts or whatever and what I heard from
their thoughts was as they were looking at me,
Mom, you've really screwed this up and we're
not really interested in going with you. And
so this fear started to rise in me and this abandonment
started to rise and they turned away. They walked
out this heavy door. that had a window in it,
and so I ran up to the door, and as I'm watching
them walk away, they're going off into this land
that just looks like it had been cleared by heavy
equipment. It was very barren. But there's no
color in this, so it's not like I could see any
color. It was almost like a gray, black, white.
There was no color. And then I turned, and I
started to see my life review. But when I try
to describe it, it's not linear in time, all
that I'm not ready to share with you. It's all
like it's happening at once, but time is elusive
in this whole realm. And so it starts with a
lot of my childhood traumatic experiences that
I encountered. It was like I was right back in
them. And the emotions that I was feeling were
so overwhelming. I was afraid, I was confused,
abandonment. fear, guilt, all these emotions
are just compounded and I can't understand what's
happening and then my films kind of go away and
I see a patient that I worked with years ago
who was HIV positive and he was laying in a bed
with his arms up overhead. It was just the torture
that I could see. It wasn't very pleasant and
I won't go into the details but my first thing
was the sadness and the compassion, and then
I've got to find his partner. And so I'm in this
state of thinking, like, what is happening and
how can I find his partner to help him feel better?
And then all of a sudden, another second, a second
strip of film starts to come. It's a little boy.
Well, first it was a little girl, and I didn't
know who she was at the time, but I start to
see her childhood. And if you had to put a hierarchy
on it. Her abuse was worse than mine and I'm
not only living in my what I think now I'm starting
to think I'm in hell. I'm not only living in
my fear and my issues of abandonment and all
those things that are roaring to the surface.
I am now in her spirit body seeing her trauma
living now with her. Sometimes I get a little
teary so hold on. The next one was a little boy
and essentially the same thing. Going through
this traumatic, people are bullying him. It's
just a very fearful, scared, horrible place.
I am so afraid. I have no idea what's happening.
And I start to feel a warm sensation at my feet.
And it starts to move up my body. And in my altered
state of reality, I am so fear -based. that I
feel like I'm forced to look up and I see a light
coming through like cracks on the ceiling. Because
I was in such a state of fear, as it started
to come in, it actually poured in and it was
just this brilliant white light that did have
like an orange, golden, yellow hue to it, but
it's not a color I've ever seen in real life.
When I saw it, my mind went to, I'm in hell.
and I'm getting ready to be burned and seared
by this lava. So I bent over, I said probably
some profanity and fear, and just said, please
make this quick. The next thing I remember, I
realize I'm laying in a hospital bed, but this
stuff is still with me. I'm still in the warehouse,
but I'm also in the bed. And I look over in the
corner and I see an African -American lady sitting
there. And I was like, why are you here? And
she said, I'm here to help you. I'm here to help
you keep you safe. And all of a sudden she blended
into my Caucasian sister. So I'm like, what in
the world is happening? And as I see her, I think,
oh, she's family. And I was like, you have to
help me, like help me because I'm wanting to
get out of here. And I'm thinking she's my family.
And it's like, we got to get going. Apparently
what was happening during my whole time of not
being in this reality, I was acting out what
was happening in my hell reality. I was trying
to get out of the bed. I just had surgery, two
bars. I was cemented together. I had had the
traumatic brain injury. I was getting out of
the bed. And so they had to have physical people
there to keep me safe. Hey, quick break here
with a special message for our Utah and Idaho
listeners. Are you ready for the event of the
summer? It's coming. It's the Riddler Road Rally
Wasatch Tour, and it's hitting 11 cities this
summer. They're giving away, are you ready for
this, $110 ,000. That's $10 ,000 per city. It's
a live, citywide scavenger hunt on wheels, where
teams race in real time to solve clues, navigate
GPS track locations, and claim victory. Rally
your crew? or ride solo. Don't miss out on the
most fun you'll have this summer. Check the tour
schedule to find out what cities are on the tour
and register your team ASAP to get the early
bird discount by going to riddlerroadrally .com
forward slash events. Hey, no worries. If you
didn't remember it, it'll be in the show notes.
Now back to the guest. And so I. slowly started
to like I lingered back and forth between this
for a minute and then slowly again I don't know
time maybe days maybe an hour I don't know time
I started to come back to this reality more and
I realized I just went to hell and I I am NOT
telling a soul that it was so awful I don't I
can't even look at that I slowly started to recover.
They promoted me. I woke up one day and there's
this big eyeball in the corner and I thought,
oh boy, here we go again. But it was actually
a camera. So they had advanced the people to
the camera. And then I got better and I went
home and I was a hot mess. I had no job because
it was a new assignment. I hadn't gotten insurance
yet. My best friend was dying of cancer and I
had $8 in my bank account. I went to old behavior.
I was not good at feeling emotion, not at all.
And so I went to drinking and I got addicted
to the pain medication. And I did this hoopla
hot mess stuff for two years. Hey, I just wanted
to take a little breath right here. Yeah, thank
you. Actually, I need it. And I want to ask you
some questions about this before we move on.
I hope you don't mind. Absolutely. First of all,
I've interviewed hundreds of people that have
had NDEs, and they're all new every time. I keep
getting surprised. Oh, I've heard it all. Nope,
I haven't heard it all. Yours is very unusual.
Really? Yeah. I had no idea that this whole NDE
group was going on. I had no idea what was this
whole thing until October. and I didn't speak
about it very much because I was still processing.
I mean, I had come so far, like the last four
years have been just magical and a miracle and
the things that I've received from life, God,
whatever you want to call that, in prayer and
meditation. Yeah, I've heard when I got introduced
to it, I've been actually invited to be a presenter
at the IANDS. Yeah, IANDS. IANDS conference in
August. because there's only two percent of people
that have these hellish experiences. Yeah, it's
somewhere between two and five percent. Is it?
Okay. I didn't like I said, I'm learning as I
go. I don't and you know, there's probably more,
but we're afraid to talk about it. Well, exactly.
But yeah, these hellish or you just call them
disturbing experiences. Disturbing. I like that
better. They are a small percent, but they do
happen. We've had other people on the show that
have had them. A couple of things that I wanted
to ask you before we get into more detail. OK,
first thing that I was curious about is did you
have any recollection of leaving your body? Because
you said you ended up in this big place, but
was there any process of getting there or were
you just there all of a sudden? I did not have
a leave my body. It was like a hold on because
I'm. I've never been asked this question. Sometimes
I haven't thought everything. It was more like
a containment within. I was present in my physical
body. I was present in my emotional body. Felt
like me. I'm working this through with you. The
people that I was in their body, I was in their
body. I was in their spirit body, feeling their
emotions. So is that considered leaving your
body? But I was still in mine too. I don't even
know how to explain that, to be honest, Eric.
I wasn't like, I've heard some people say they
float up in the room and they see themselves.
I didn't have that. Yeah. Okay. And that's okay.
It doesn't make it any, any less real. Now it
is a very normal thing in these disturbing experiences
to experience a few different scenes. that are
each hellish kind of scenes. I've heard everything
from literally like a devil standing over me,
making me do things, to horrible abuse, to all
kinds of other things. Maybe you can feel good
knowing yours wasn't as bad as some other people's
are. Yeah, right. Mine was very connected to
me. Mine was very connected to me. Yeah, and
that doesn't mean that it wasn't profound and
it wasn't serious. It changed me from night and
day. People don't even recognize me anymore.
Yeah, was there ever a time that your feelings
changed from that fear and abandonment to something
positive? Absolutely, yeah. It was when I was
at my very rock bottom and I had an aversion
to religion and God because my abusers were in
that realm. And so it distorted my connection
with people. It distorted my view of life and
God. The love, I really didn't know what love
was. But one day I was, I wasn't going to necessarily
get in the Bible because I still, you know, I
mean, my hell was associated with that whole
thing. So I laid down and I started praying or
meditating and I started being shown exactly
what all those things were and we can talk more
about it. But I did want to say that they never
medicated me because I was a trauma, brain trauma.
So they can't sedate you. And that's why they
had somebody watching me. You know, that's the
reason. They need to make sure you're coming
back. But what has happened is the story has
been explained to me in my meditation. The two
people, the first two children that I saw were
my abusers as children. I started to see why
they were the way they were. I started to see
why I had done, you know, I left a marriage after
18 years and I was... My skeletons were trying
to rise. I didn't know they were, but I was essentially
out there running trying to find this thing called
happy. I looked good on that side. I was a nurse.
I was traveling, but I've been given the information.
And so when that was being brought up in me during
the meditation and I saw them as children of
the same source that I came from. and they forgot
that they are a part of that, just like I had
no idea I was a part of that. I had no idea that
that divine love, some people call it God, some
people call it Mother Earth, universal consciousness,
that that is life itself, the love of life, is
within all of us. But we're conditioned and we're
you know, just like my abusers, my light started
to go out. And as you know, we're told that we
are sinful by just coming into this world, but
we're not. And that whole sin thing, how can
you escape that, right? Except for through this
story of Jesus dying for our sins in the Bible.
Now I've been in it. It's like that is an instrument
of gold. That is definitely basic instruction
before leaving Earth Bible, right? Like it's
in there. I can now look at it, but and see the
stories differently in a different perspective
that kind of apply now. The grace and the love
that flowed through me was unconditional love
and I could not help but extend it to them and
so this weight of that I didn't even know had
distorted my view of what life was about was
lifted and it was like holy hell. What is happening?
I love this. And let me try to explain a couple
things here. A lot of people in their life review,
they feel extreme empathy for someone else that
they may have hurt in some way through their
action. You feel all of it. You feel what you
have done to other people and how they felt.
I didn't really go down that because it gets
long. I mean, there was a lot of different little
scenes in there, but the ones where I had done
something. That caused pain for another person.
I felt that on that side. I felt like what that
felt like but I also Was shown why I was like
that and the purity in me never left me It just
got covered up and so this was like about Remembering
my light and that light that we were talking
about that was coming in that I thought was lava
That was the light of the love that was life
spark itself trying to Allow the wounds that
were in the bowels of my soul to come up to shine
light on it So I could see it from a different
perspective, but I was so messed up in my head
and fear I couldn't even see that I was afraid
of the light I was afraid of life and God and
the whole and I didn't even recognize it after
when I released the first question that came
to me to ask myself is How can I see this differently
and what is it trying to teach me? and I had
to be brave enough to look back at it. Because,
of course, when you look back at it, all those
emotions come up. And again, before, I would
have drank them away or peeled them away. Now
I said, OK, I'm at the bottom of the barrel.
I'm willing. Show me a different way to see this.
I made it through hell the first time. I don't
have to drink. I will do this. And it's actually
been very gentle. It's not been a hell experience.
I still see it. I still feel it. I feel the emotion.
But then I understand where my with all those
things I had put in front of myself that blocked
myself from receiving love. It was a protection.
It was a barrier. It was through the lens of
my wounds. Now it's like the wounds have been
lifted and I can see the grace in all people.
They're just disconnected from their source.
We've just forgotten that we are part of it.
And so I've been given little tidbits on how
people can move that negative energy, the dark
energy that we feel, fear, pain, all those things.
And then know what absolute elation feels like,
practice what that feels like in your body. And
then you become mindful when it's happening in
real life. And you go, that emotional uncomfortableness
is actually a gift from God to say, we got some
stuff down there that needs to be looked at.
Like if you're cussing somebody out in traffic,
that's not about the other person. That stuff's
coming out of you. That uncomfortable feeling
is like you're looking at it wrong. this has
not been taught like if we had been told that
we were light of life itself and we all knew
our worthiness and our value but we're in a society
that we you know and this is another far -fetched
thing and I don't even I have nothing to validate
it but in one of my meditations it was shown
to me that God is all in all it is the life source
energy that is around us it is that energy that
is moving things forward and every single event
that happens in your life happens as an opportunity
to remember that you are the light and the light
of love if it sits in light of love by itself
the whole time there's no it can't remember who
it is itself and so through our lives through
all of it the bad and the good the contrast is
a gift if you can see it that way instead of
going down the rabbit hole of what we've been
taught you know hate that person they're awful
you are a victim No, once you release that, it's
like, then you remember, oh my gosh, I am an
extension of life force energy. And I believe
Jesus was trying to say the same thing now. I
think that he was said, I'm the son of God. We
all are sons of God. But if you say that to some
people, they think you're being blasphemy, or
I think that's what they call that. But the truth
of the matter is he was connected to that sort.
Okay, sorry. I told you I'd get going because
it's so exciting. I'm so sorry. I don't know
how to slow you down. So, Michelle, these experiences
for the person that goes through them, there's
always important lessons to learn and usually
beautiful lessons that can be life changing.
Tell me if I'm wrong or explain better. But it
seems like the main lesson for you or beautiful
gift for you was to have empathy for your abusers
so you could forgive them and let all that go.
Am I right there? And is that helped you be a
happier person because of it? Yes, it started
there. But ultimately, it was having the same
grace and love and compassion for myself. And
that's when the door blew open. OK. No, that
is awesome. You can leave it right there. Before
we run out of time. I know. I'm so sorry. This
has been fun. Don't apologize. Before we run
out of time. I want to talk a little bit about
what you do as a hospice nurse. I promised you
we would get back to terminal agitation. Tell
me what that is and then let's talk about a couple
cool hospice experiences. Okay, so there is something
called terminal agitation and then there's something
called visioning. Sometimes people get those
two things confused. In the visioning, There's
things like the visionary reach where people
are truly engaged with an energy source that
they see that we in this physical form cannot
see. It's almost like they're in between two
worlds. About three weeks ago, I had a gentleman
that was in that state of moving through that
visioning and he was absolutely reaching towards
God. He was having a conversation with God. And
in this conversation, we were all standing around
him, but there was something that happened to
his physical form. A rally, the rally show up
in different ways, but there was a rally, a light,
something, and he was so engaged and speaking
it out loud. And the feeling in the room was
just intense. But a lot of times, because we
don't talk about death and dying, we are afraid.
And so we don't get to experience those things,
but it's absolutely. their connection to the
non -physical, where their soul is being called
home. Terminal agitation is completely different.
It truly is an agitation. And as I was sharing
with you my experience, I look probably like
the craziest person in that bed, screaming at
people to help me and trying to get out. And
it can look like that. People pick at their clothes.
You can tell they're physically uncomfortable.
We have medication for that, and it does definitely
calm them. But what I truly feel is happening
now, since I've gone through my own experience,
is those things, those false limiting beliefs
that they bought into and they exhibited in their
lifetime are being brought up from the belly
of the soul so that the light can shine on them
so that it can be released. Because the only
thing that goes back with you is love. There's
nothing else that goes back with you. When you
go back to that light of love, that's what you
take back to it. and possibly the story of the
experience, right? If people know this in advance,
had I known that even if I was dying, that I
might be going through something like that, in
my awareness, I might have been able to recall
it, because all of the history was awareness
that was being called forward. And to let people
know it won't last, it's honestly there to help
them release any garbage that can't go with them,
and they'll be able to see it for what it is
and do like me, like, oh my gosh. the compassion
and I see why that happened and I see how that
made me a better person. And a better nurse,
right? Sounds like your NDE made you a much more
compassionate hospice nurse. Well, especially
with that because I didn't necessarily know what
that was, terminal agitation. And it can be a
little scary when you see it because it's like
what is happening? This is supposed to be a sacred
thing. It is still so sacred. It is still so
sacred, even in that, even in that, because it's
just an undoing of that that doesn't serve them.
Now that I see that, I've absolutely been able
to help patients move through it. I've been able
to tell them that they're open. Please know I
am very sensitive to people's beliefs and that
sort of thing. And I wait for an invitation before
I share anything. And I don't necessarily share
about my experience, but I promise them that
it's not going to last long. It's just like birthing.
We don't remember all the squishy bumpies that
we came in through that portal, but it can be
a little bumpy on the back end. Just hang on
and I promise it will all turn into that golden
liquid love. How has being a hospice nurse helped
your faith or your hope in an afterlife? There's
no doubt that there is more beyond this physical
form. We are energetic spiritual beings having
a human experience and that light of love that
initiated the spark that got our journey going
from conception is still available to us and
we haven't been taught to connect to it. But
once you do, Life is, and I wasn't very good
with connecting with people because of my history.
I can't get out of people's connection. I mean,
when people are moving through that, just to
be in that unfolding for them and help them move
through it is such an honor. It is just such
an honor. And I have no fear around it now. So
I can guide from that heart space instead of
my head space, if that makes sense. All right.
Could you give us an experience or two that you've
had with patients that helped that faith promoting
kind of thing or made you Believe more in an
afterlife. Yes first one that I'm gonna share
with you is a patient that I worked with in a
long -term care facility and He was an atheist
very much Did not believe in anything else beyond
what was happening. I had the opportunity to
work with him and help him Opened his mind to
a possibility of being able to create what comes
next his heaven or you know that that fear that
he had of the unknown because he didn't believe
in anything I challenged him to say let's try
to make it up like if you could do anything How
would it be and so he shared that he would be
in the forest in the rivers and he would be climbing
a mountain This is this the divinity. You just
can't make it up. The timing was such for whatever
reason I felt called to go in early that morning
and I don't even know why. Probably to catch
the night shift people just so I could say, as
a manager, I saw you guys or whatever. But I
went in early and he was actually starting his
transition. And so I sat with him on the bed
and I recalled everything that he had shared
with me about what his journey to the non -physical
was gonna look like. As we were moving through
this, he would whisper like. You don't have a
powerful voice at that time. You don't have that
energy. But he would whisper and would confirm
that what we were doing together was working.
And so I was kind of like, a something came over
me and I was rooting him. He didn't have family.
So it was just me and him. And I was rooting
him to climb that mountain and to hang on. The
bumpy part wasn't going to last long. And he
was almost there. And this glow and this smile
that came over this guy as he's taken his last
few breaths was... blew me back like I was it
was like being in heaven in that moment and when
I actually saw the energy on his last exhale
and it was one of the most beautiful deaths I
have ever experienced and I know that we are
divinely connected to the source that created
us we've just forgotten and if we can help people
remember their own power so this guy created
his journey back to the non -physical and it
was beautiful. I would have thought he would
have had a really hard one, but it was beautiful.
Did you just say you saw his energy? I did. I've
seen energy leave twice. So what it looks like
is as people are passing, their pupil of the
eye will constrict down very tightly before their
soul exits the body with that final breath. When
the final breath happens, the eyes dilate. right
open and this man had the most beautiful blue
eyes so when the dilation happened the blue hue
on the outside was very prominent and it's like
a film or a gasp you that released from this
area of him it was you know you do this sort
of thing like yeah did i really see that Yeah.
Oh, absolutely. And so I did that sort of thing.
Like I thought, do I have a tear in my eye? Like
what is happening here? And it was very, it wasn't
like a form body. It was just like an energy
film. Like if you're pumping gas, how you can
see behind the gas, but you see the distortion
in front between you and the pump. It was the
same thing in my experience of what I saw. Sort
of like a heat wave kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Like a mirage on a road, but you can see
through it. You can see on the other side of
it. Yeah, fascinating. OK, what was the other
one you were thinking of? My best friend, Brett,
he had cancer. He had been sent to a hospice
house to die. He was in the hospital for four
months. He had an internal bleed from his cancer,
colon cancer. They couldn't find it. They pumped
him up with blood, sent him to the hospice house.
And he called me and he said, there's a miracle
that has happened. My bleeding stopped when I
was being transported from the hospital to the
hospice house. Come get me. Come get me out of
the hospice house. If I truly am dying, they
gave him three days that the blood that they
put in was going to be done. And I kept saying,
that's not a bad way to go. You just kind of
go to sleep. And he's telling me for sure he's
had a miracle. And in my medical mind, I'm like,
you haven't had a miracle? There's no way. This
guy couldn't find it for as long as you were
in there. He's adamant. I was like, OK, I am
going to bring him home. I bring him home, and
he was with me for 16 more months. And in that
16 months, we had some just... you can't make
the shit up, like magical moments, right? You
just can't make it up. And he really started
to open my eyes to seeing things differently,
to opening my eyes to God, to opening my eyes.
And we lived it. He was on borrowed time. So
we would get up in the morning, we would have
our gripe session about everything that was wrong
in the world and all the people around us. And
then that was it. We had one hour. And then we
were out living life every single day to the
fullest. So he really helped me understand what
that was about. He really helped me understand
what unconditional love was about for the first
time. And here I'm in my 50s, right? He was just
truly a best friend. And it was such an honor
to go through that with him. He was the other
one where I saw the same sort of thing. That
film, for lack of a better word, on the final
exhale was... Visible and it and as when it left
the tender smile that was on his face i wish
i would have taken a picture you know you can
tell people but until you are it's a such an
experiential sort of thing. To be in that presence
of that is truly grace and so many people miss
it cuz we're afraid of it right we're afraid.
to stand in that as it's happening, but it's
really a very cool place. All right, speaking
of fear, before I let you go, I have one last
question, and that is, Michelle, on a scale of
one to 10, what is your level of fear of death?
Zero, none whatsoever. I'm not one of those that
I want to go home to go to this because I feel
I've connected with it here. And so it's just
going to be bonus when I leave my suit. I'm not
afraid at all. All right, thank you so much for
being with me today. Thank you so much. Thanks
again for listening and sharing this podcast.
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button
and sign up for our newsletter at roundtripdeath
.com. If you want to share your near -death experience
or if you have questions or comments about the
show, send an email to eric at roundtripdeath
.com. Until then, I wish you everything good
that you're looking for in this life and the
next.