WEBVTT 00:00:03.700 --> 00:00:06.719 From the time that they pronounced me dead was 00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:10.220 a good 45 minutes. They cut my clothes and then 00:00:10.220 --> 00:00:13.560 they paddled my heart, my heart stopped and I 00:00:13.560 --> 00:00:17.079 could see people screaming and crying but I didn't 00:00:17.079 --> 00:00:19.480 realize that was actually my physical body because 00:00:19.480 --> 00:00:22.800 I was somewhere else. The only thing that I could 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:26.780 feel if you could imagine absolute love and peace 00:00:26.780 --> 00:00:29.839 there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was 00:00:29.839 --> 00:00:32.840 greeted by people I had known in the past. I'm 00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:36.240 back home again. Incredibly safe and felt at 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:41.159 home. Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody. 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:44.240 And please give a warm welcome to our special 00:00:44.240 --> 00:00:47.380 guest coming to us from Montana today. And this 00:00:47.380 --> 00:00:50.240 is Joanna Oblander. Please tell me I pronounced 00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:54.539 that right. Close. Oblander. Oblander. Okay. 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:57.479 Anyway, Jo, how are you today? I'm good. Thank 00:00:57.479 --> 00:01:01.170 you. Good. Well, Just to give everybody a heads 00:01:01.170 --> 00:01:03.770 up, when we talk with people that have had near 00:01:03.770 --> 00:01:06.390 -death experiences, some of them are short, some 00:01:06.390 --> 00:01:09.370 are long, some have a lot of detail, some not 00:01:09.370 --> 00:01:12.090 so much. It seems like recently on the show we've 00:01:12.090 --> 00:01:14.730 had quite a few people on that have had these 00:01:14.730 --> 00:01:17.969 very brief NDEs. You're in for a treat today 00:01:17.969 --> 00:01:23.549 because Joanna, Joe, wow, this is going to take 00:01:23.549 --> 00:01:26.290 some time because we have a lot to unpack here. 00:01:26.329 --> 00:01:29.099 So hold on to your hats, everybody. And Joe, 00:01:29.099 --> 00:01:31.640 before we jump into your experience, would you 00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:33.799 mind letting us get to know you a little bit? 00:01:33.859 --> 00:01:37.260 Just give us a one minute on who you are or what 00:01:37.260 --> 00:01:39.700 you do or anything so that we can get to know 00:01:39.700 --> 00:01:43.319 you. I'm happily married to my husband, Greg. 00:01:43.620 --> 00:01:46.400 In fact, we just celebrated our anniversary, 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:50.219 our 47th anniversary yesterday. Congratulations. 00:01:51.159 --> 00:01:53.959 Thank you. Unfortunately, we didn't get to spend 00:01:53.959 --> 00:01:57.409 it together. My husband. serves in the Montana 00:01:57.409 --> 00:02:01.030 legislature and they're in their final days of 00:02:01.030 --> 00:02:04.870 the session. My mother of six children, grandmother 00:02:04.870 --> 00:02:10.590 of 22 grandchildren going on 23. We live here 00:02:10.590 --> 00:02:13.770 in Montana. We love it here. We love the mountains. 00:02:13.870 --> 00:02:19.110 We love being in the outdoors and we love just 00:02:19.110 --> 00:02:22.250 everything. We're blessed to be surrounded by 00:02:22.250 --> 00:02:26.060 here. That's fantastic. Well, if we go back quite 00:02:26.060 --> 00:02:28.699 a few years, you were dealing with some real 00:02:28.699 --> 00:02:31.680 medical issues. I don't know if you want to give 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:35.300 us just a brief background. You don't have to 00:02:35.300 --> 00:02:38.159 go into any personal details, but I know you 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:40.759 had severe migraines for years. Tell me what 00:02:40.759 --> 00:02:43.699 was going on with your health that led up to 00:02:43.699 --> 00:02:46.770 your near -death experience. About the time I 00:02:46.770 --> 00:02:51.030 turned 30, I started having 24 -7 headaches. 00:02:51.189 --> 00:02:54.150 And at the time, I didn't know I was having migraine 00:02:54.150 --> 00:02:56.509 headaches. I thought they were muscle tension 00:02:56.509 --> 00:02:59.770 headaches. That's what the doctors told me. Regardless 00:02:59.770 --> 00:03:04.669 of what the type of headache was, I was in excruciating 00:03:04.669 --> 00:03:09.270 pain 24 -7. I ended up having those headaches 00:03:09.270 --> 00:03:14.310 for about 15 years, about year 13 of those headaches. 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:19.740 I was so worn out, deeply affected by those headaches 00:03:19.740 --> 00:03:24.840 that I slid into deep depression, which eventually 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:28.259 became suicidal depression. Okay. Go ahead and 00:03:28.259 --> 00:03:32.419 keep going. You want me to relate my experience? 00:03:33.080 --> 00:03:36.879 Yeah. Yeah. How did it start and give us an idea 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:39.560 of what happened? I'll stop you and ask some 00:03:39.560 --> 00:03:42.969 questions as we go. During the time that I had 00:03:42.969 --> 00:03:47.509 the headaches, I was raising a family of active 00:03:47.509 --> 00:03:50.810 kids. There's a story behind this as well, but 00:03:50.810 --> 00:03:53.949 my husband and I ended up adopting two children 00:03:53.949 --> 00:03:58.430 from Russia. There was the stress of that. We 00:03:58.430 --> 00:04:02.310 were self -employed. We had left a corporate 00:04:02.310 --> 00:04:07.169 job. With the adoption of the two children from 00:04:07.169 --> 00:04:11.699 Russia, we felt like we needed to have additional 00:04:11.699 --> 00:04:16.060 income, and so we became involved in two businesses. 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:20.899 So I was helping to run a family with six active 00:04:20.899 --> 00:04:23.819 children, two of which were learning English 00:04:23.819 --> 00:04:28.139 and assimilating into our culture and our family, 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:31.240 running two businesses. For those that are self 00:04:31.240 --> 00:04:34.240 -employed, you know what a responsibility that 00:04:34.240 --> 00:04:39.589 is. Health was not good because I wasn't taking 00:04:39.589 --> 00:04:43.129 care of it. I was running on adrenaline full 00:04:43.129 --> 00:04:46.689 -time just to keep up with my life. It finally 00:04:46.689 --> 00:04:50.230 got to the point where physically, mentally, 00:04:50.529 --> 00:04:53.250 emotionally, I just wasn't handling anything 00:04:53.250 --> 00:04:56.889 very well. Our businesses started suffering as 00:04:56.889 --> 00:05:00.550 a result. I knew it was because of me. I was 00:05:00.550 --> 00:05:04.029 under a lot of pressure, under a lot of stress. 00:05:04.269 --> 00:05:08.160 I knew I was blessed. I knew I was blessed with 00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:12.600 an amazing husband, wonderful children, but I 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:17.139 began to feel that I was a burden in their lives. 00:05:17.540 --> 00:05:23.680 I felt like it was my fault that everything was 00:05:23.680 --> 00:05:26.980 beginning to kind of crash around us. And one 00:05:26.980 --> 00:05:30.459 of my triggers during the years that I was depressed 00:05:30.459 --> 00:05:35.000 was financial issues, and we were having a lot 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:38.379 of them. had a couple of bill collectors call 00:05:38.379 --> 00:05:42.379 me one day. One of them told me when I tried 00:05:42.379 --> 00:05:45.740 to explain to her what was going on with my health 00:05:45.740 --> 00:05:49.560 that it was all my fault. I wanted to be like 00:05:49.560 --> 00:05:52.839 that. And she essentially confirmed what I was 00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:55.819 already feeling in my thoughts, which was that 00:05:55.819 --> 00:05:59.779 it was all my fault. I was responsible. I was 00:05:59.779 --> 00:06:03.720 a horrible person. So at the end of that day, 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:09.170 I was done. I knew I had worked as hard as I 00:06:09.170 --> 00:06:13.209 possibly could to do the best job I could at 00:06:13.209 --> 00:06:17.870 all my various roles of being a business owner, 00:06:18.569 --> 00:06:23.110 a mom, a wife, a friend, and I was failing and 00:06:23.110 --> 00:06:27.889 I had failed in my mind. And so I got on my knees 00:06:27.889 --> 00:06:35.939 and I shared with God through prayer that I was 00:06:35.939 --> 00:06:41.100 done. That he knew and I knew that I'd given 00:06:41.100 --> 00:06:44.680 it the very best I had, but I didn't have any 00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:49.019 more to give. If he chose to send me to hell 00:06:49.019 --> 00:06:52.980 after I committed suicide, that would be okay 00:06:52.980 --> 00:06:55.800 because it couldn't be any worse than what I 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.899 was already going through. My plan was the next 00:06:59.899 --> 00:07:04.379 day while my family was gone to take my life. 00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:12.860 So as I climbed into bed and tried to hide my 00:07:12.860 --> 00:07:17.959 tears from my husband, I fell asleep. But shortly 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:24.480 after I fell asleep, an angel appeared above 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:30.459 my head and he motioned for me to take his hand. 00:07:31.199 --> 00:07:36.139 And I did. and he pulled me from my body, pulled 00:07:36.139 --> 00:07:39.980 my spirit from my body. And he held onto my hand 00:07:39.980 --> 00:07:45.139 and he took me through what I call a conduit. 00:07:45.139 --> 00:07:50.180 It was like a circular tunnel. I could see the 00:07:50.180 --> 00:07:53.079 walls of the conduit. I could see that they were 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:56.519 clear. I could see the galaxies we were traveling 00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:59.620 through. I knew we were traveling very quickly, 00:07:59.699 --> 00:08:03.259 but I didn't have any sensation. of travel other 00:08:03.259 --> 00:08:08.019 than I could see that we were moving past the 00:08:08.019 --> 00:08:11.920 galaxies we were passing through and when we 00:08:11.920 --> 00:08:15.720 arrived at our destination I saw this complex 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:23.899 of rooms and I knew I had returned to a place 00:08:23.899 --> 00:08:28.079 I'd been before and I don't know that I could 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:31.480 necessarily called that complex of rooms home 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:36.779 but I knew that I was in a place that I not only 00:08:36.779 --> 00:08:41.419 had been before but that had been a place of 00:08:41.419 --> 00:08:46.980 love and acceptance. I looked at the rooms in 00:08:46.980 --> 00:08:50.200 front of me and as I looked at each of the rooms 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:54.360 I could see through the walls. It was like the 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:58.340 walls would would move so that I could see into 00:08:58.340 --> 00:09:01.320 the rooms and I could hear what was going on 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:04.480 in the rooms. And it was within a very short 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:08.539 amount of time I could remember the layout of 00:09:08.539 --> 00:09:12.259 that complex and what rooms were used for what 00:09:12.259 --> 00:09:16.360 subjects and what teachers were teaching in those 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:19.879 rooms and those subjects. And they weren't the 00:09:19.879 --> 00:09:24.120 kind of subjects that we typically think of in 00:09:24.120 --> 00:09:28.139 a high school or college setting, instead these 00:09:28.139 --> 00:09:32.120 rooms were teaching those students what it would 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:34.940 be like to have certain earthly experiences, 00:09:35.539 --> 00:09:38.019 what it would be like to have migraine headaches, 00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:42.179 what it would be like to have a disability of 00:09:42.179 --> 00:09:46.679 a particular kind, what it would be like to go 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:51.429 through a traumatic earth experience. and all 00:09:51.429 --> 00:09:54.269 of those rooms and all of those classes were 00:09:54.269 --> 00:09:58.049 trying to help us choose those experiences that 00:09:58.049 --> 00:10:00.909 would help us become more like our Father in 00:10:00.909 --> 00:10:04.289 Heaven. That's what all of us in those rooms 00:10:04.289 --> 00:10:09.429 wanted, is we just loved Him so much and we just 00:10:09.429 --> 00:10:13.610 were so filled with desire and love for Him. 00:10:13.830 --> 00:10:17.649 We just wanted so much to emulate Him and to 00:10:17.649 --> 00:10:22.990 become like He was. I became very engrossed in 00:10:22.990 --> 00:10:26.330 watching those rooms and listening to the discussions 00:10:26.330 --> 00:10:29.750 that were being had. My angel grabbed my attention 00:10:29.750 --> 00:10:33.929 and directed me to look towards a room that was 00:10:33.929 --> 00:10:37.230 to my left. The room he was directing me to was 00:10:37.230 --> 00:10:40.149 not a classroom. And again, I could see through 00:10:40.149 --> 00:10:50.019 the walls of the room. and I instantly recognized 00:10:50.019 --> 00:10:55.139 the form of the being that was in that room, 00:10:55.500 --> 00:11:04.419 and it was my father in heaven. And I was surprised 00:11:04.419 --> 00:11:08.960 at how easily I recognized him, especially since 00:11:08.960 --> 00:11:13.240 his back was towards me, and I could see that 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:16.919 he was looking towards the door of the room. 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:20.799 And he could also see through the walls and the 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:23.700 door. I could tell from watching him. And he 00:11:23.700 --> 00:11:27.320 was watching a man and a woman approach the door. 00:11:27.899 --> 00:11:32.360 As he saw them, he moved towards the door to 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:36.240 open it, to invite them in. And as he did so, 00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:41.240 I could see who the man and woman were. And it 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:47.450 was me and the man who is now my husband. husband's 00:11:47.450 --> 00:11:53.429 name is Greg and I watched him welcome us into 00:11:53.429 --> 00:11:56.909 the room and as he welcomed us into the room 00:11:56.909 --> 00:12:04.169 I began to experience the event both from beside 00:12:04.169 --> 00:12:09.230 my angel and as I had experienced it back in 00:12:09.230 --> 00:12:13.009 that realm of existence and I knew that I was 00:12:13.009 --> 00:12:17.139 being allowed to witness an event in my existence 00:12:17.139 --> 00:12:20.360 that had taken place prior to my being born here 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:25.820 upon this earth. I was able to feel my father 00:12:25.820 --> 00:12:31.720 embrace me and welcome me into that room. I knew 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:35.720 that I had been asked to come to that meeting 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:40.200 for a special purpose, something that was important. 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:45.480 Somehow I knew that my husband, Greg, who in 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:49.259 that situation was not my husband, but instead 00:12:49.259 --> 00:12:54.879 a very, very close friend. At that point I knew 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:58.159 that plans had already been made, at least in 00:12:58.159 --> 00:13:01.879 general, for our lives on Earth, and that it 00:13:01.879 --> 00:13:05.000 had been planned that Greg and I would be married 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:08.419 in this life. We would be together during our 00:13:08.419 --> 00:13:12.379 lives on Earth. Somehow I knew that Greg knew 00:13:12.379 --> 00:13:15.629 the purpose of this meeting. and I didn't yet. 00:13:16.830 --> 00:13:20.690 My father in heaven instructed me to come and 00:13:20.690 --> 00:13:24.190 sit in a chair. There were two high back chairs 00:13:24.190 --> 00:13:27.889 in the room and they were arranged so that they 00:13:27.889 --> 00:13:30.309 were so close. They weren't directly across from 00:13:30.309 --> 00:13:33.610 each other. They were more at an angle to each 00:13:33.610 --> 00:13:38.809 other so that he could easily hold my hands. 00:13:40.610 --> 00:13:44.679 He had Greg stand behind my chair. He shared 00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:48.220 with me that he had invited me there for that 00:13:48.220 --> 00:13:53.320 meeting because he had a very important mission 00:13:53.320 --> 00:13:58.259 that he wanted to request of me. He explained 00:13:58.259 --> 00:14:01.940 that he knew that what he was asking me to do 00:14:01.940 --> 00:14:06.559 would be difficult, but that with his help, he 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:09.700 knew I would be able to accomplish it. From that 00:14:09.700 --> 00:14:13.629 point on, I no longer observed the meeting. alongside 00:14:13.629 --> 00:14:18.190 my angel, but instead I experienced the meeting 00:14:18.190 --> 00:14:23.049 as it had originally taken place. I guess I should 00:14:23.049 --> 00:14:27.090 back up a little bit. As I had watched God the 00:14:27.090 --> 00:14:31.269 Father approach that room, what I'll call the 00:14:31.269 --> 00:14:35.289 veil or the block over my memories was taken 00:14:35.289 --> 00:14:41.129 away. I was able to see and remember my existence. 00:14:41.500 --> 00:14:46.779 In that realm, I was able to see who I really 00:14:46.779 --> 00:14:51.559 was, my abilities, my capacities, my talents, 00:14:51.820 --> 00:14:56.980 my intelligence, everything I understood. I had 00:14:56.980 --> 00:15:02.860 been overwhelmed with what I had seen. I saw 00:15:02.860 --> 00:15:07.179 not only myself, but others. I saw our fight 00:15:07.179 --> 00:15:11.950 for truth, our fight to support God. against 00:15:11.950 --> 00:15:17.509 Satan. I had seen how, no matter who we were 00:15:17.509 --> 00:15:22.230 or what talents we did or didn't have, how we 00:15:22.230 --> 00:15:26.490 completely honored each other and supported each 00:15:26.490 --> 00:15:32.690 other. And that realm was just so, so completely 00:15:32.690 --> 00:15:40.440 infused with love and light and unity. So once 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:44.799 I had become acquainted with who I really was, 00:15:45.299 --> 00:15:51.440 then all of my mortal fears and doubts, discouragement, 00:15:52.559 --> 00:15:55.379 all of those things that are so easily a part 00:15:55.379 --> 00:16:00.220 of our mortal existence were gone. And I just 00:16:00.220 --> 00:16:06.600 felt this sense of ability, sense of having at 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:10.490 my... at my will, the knowledge, the resources, 00:16:10.789 --> 00:16:15.169 whatever I needed to accomplish, whatever goal 00:16:15.169 --> 00:16:20.090 I might have to serve God and to serve His purposes. 00:16:20.169 --> 00:16:25.970 And that was my whole intent in everything I 00:16:25.970 --> 00:16:28.750 did. For those of us who had fought with God, 00:16:28.889 --> 00:16:32.929 we were all like that. We all just wanted so 00:16:32.929 --> 00:16:36.799 much to serve Him and to be like Him. As I sat 00:16:36.799 --> 00:16:39.779 in that meeting and sat in the chair, God held 00:16:39.779 --> 00:16:44.120 my hands and talked to me. He motioned for me 00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:47.220 to look through the conduit the angel had brought 00:16:47.220 --> 00:16:51.080 me through. And instead of seeming like it was 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:54.200 galaxies and galaxies away, it was more like 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:58.440 I could just see from within that room, my mortal 00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:01.379 life, what it would look like and how it would 00:17:01.379 --> 00:17:06.089 transpire if I chose to accept the mission. that 00:17:06.089 --> 00:17:10.789 God was asking me to accept. I saw all of the 00:17:10.789 --> 00:17:16.170 details. I saw my childhood, my adult life, everything 00:17:16.170 --> 00:17:20.349 that would happen. God let me know that He knew 00:17:20.349 --> 00:17:23.609 that it would be difficult, but that He knew 00:17:23.609 --> 00:17:28.950 I would be able to accomplish it as long as I 00:17:28.950 --> 00:17:32.910 looked to Him for guidance, as long as I stayed 00:17:32.910 --> 00:17:38.240 close to Him. After having experienced my reuniting 00:17:38.240 --> 00:17:41.660 with what I call my real self, not my mortal 00:17:41.660 --> 00:17:47.119 self, for the first time I felt some real trepidation. 00:17:47.359 --> 00:17:52.339 I had seen what would happen. I was really concerned 00:17:52.339 --> 00:17:57.880 that I would fail my father in heaven. I really 00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:02.500 didn't want to fail him. I started thinking that 00:18:02.500 --> 00:18:06.630 maybe it would be better if he let someone else 00:18:06.630 --> 00:18:11.470 take that assignment instead of me. He was able 00:18:11.470 --> 00:18:16.410 to read my thoughts and he held my hands a little 00:18:16.410 --> 00:18:25.049 tighter and he assured me that I would be able 00:18:25.049 --> 00:18:28.450 to accomplish the mission that he was asking 00:18:28.450 --> 00:18:31.950 of me. but several times he told me he would 00:18:31.950 --> 00:18:35.349 understood if I chose not to accept the mission. 00:18:35.869 --> 00:18:39.930 At no point in time during that meeting did he 00:18:39.930 --> 00:18:44.029 make me feel pressured or that he was insistent. 00:18:44.250 --> 00:18:47.869 He just let me know that he was hopeful that 00:18:47.869 --> 00:18:51.670 I would accept that mission and he continued 00:18:51.670 --> 00:18:55.470 to remind me that as long as I remembered him. 00:18:59.180 --> 00:19:05.140 I would succeed. And I knew that He couldn't 00:19:05.140 --> 00:19:11.359 lie to me. I also knew that if during my mortal 00:19:11.359 --> 00:19:16.480 life that I chose not to rely or to remember 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:20.779 God in my life, if I didn't rely on His guidance 00:19:20.779 --> 00:19:26.480 and I rejected Him or turned against Him in any 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:29.589 way, that the things I had been shown of my life 00:19:29.589 --> 00:19:34.029 would change, that what I had been shown, even 00:19:34.029 --> 00:19:36.210 though there was great difficulties involved, 00:19:36.930 --> 00:19:39.329 that what I had been shown was what would occur 00:19:39.329 --> 00:19:42.930 in my life as long as I remembered Him, as long 00:19:42.930 --> 00:19:47.750 as I relied on Him. And if I strayed from remembering 00:19:47.750 --> 00:19:52.250 Him, then various events could be altered or 00:19:52.250 --> 00:19:57.079 changed. I contemplated for several minutes And 00:19:57.079 --> 00:20:02.019 as I mentioned before, it was probably one of 00:20:02.019 --> 00:20:05.920 the rare moments in that existence that I had 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:11.339 felt any kind of trepidation or doubt. But I 00:20:11.339 --> 00:20:14.380 knew that God could not lie to me. And I knew 00:20:14.380 --> 00:20:18.779 that He wanted me to accept that mission. And 00:20:18.779 --> 00:20:22.019 I knew that I could succeed as long as I relied 00:20:22.019 --> 00:20:28.900 on Him. And so... accepted the mission and he 00:20:28.900 --> 00:20:38.000 looked at me and I looked at him and for a few 00:20:38.000 --> 00:20:41.019 moments I was able to look at him with my mortal 00:20:41.019 --> 00:20:45.960 understanding and I looked upon his face that 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:55.900 was so perfect, so loving, so familiar. and I 00:20:55.900 --> 00:20:59.119 wondered how I had been able to forget his face. 00:21:00.500 --> 00:21:04.619 I wondered how I had been able to forget my interactions 00:21:04.619 --> 00:21:10.579 with him, my life with him. He smiled at me and 00:21:10.579 --> 00:21:14.079 he just let me know, he said, you have, thank 00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:18.680 you. He told me that he loved me and he told 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:22.059 me that I had chosen wisely and he thanked me 00:21:22.059 --> 00:21:28.539 for my willingness to serve him. From that point, 00:21:28.960 --> 00:21:33.779 he stood and let us know that he loved us and 00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:38.480 he embraced us both once again. I just asked 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:44.519 in his embrace and his love for me. At that point, 00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:49.359 our meeting was over and my angel took me again 00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:53.539 and returned me to my body. I don't remember 00:21:53.539 --> 00:21:58.099 my return trip. to Earth and I don't remember 00:21:58.099 --> 00:22:01.920 being placed in my body. I just remember knowing 00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:05.839 I was back in my body and knowing what had just 00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:10.660 happened to me. I had hoped that when I returned 00:22:10.660 --> 00:22:14.579 to my body, that my body would be healed and 00:22:14.579 --> 00:22:18.619 that I would not have headaches anymore. But 00:22:18.619 --> 00:22:22.680 when I returned to my body, I returned to a body 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:26.619 that was still in a lot of pain and still having 00:22:26.619 --> 00:22:30.839 24 -7 migraines. Still deeply, deeply depressed, 00:22:31.220 --> 00:22:34.700 but I had been extended a lifeline. I knew that 00:22:34.700 --> 00:22:37.319 even though it was going to be really, really 00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:41.460 difficult to hang on to life, that I had to. 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:45.200 That I had to figure it out. That I had to finish 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.819 my mission. Wow, thank you. I don't know what 00:22:48.819 --> 00:22:52.619 to say. I usually have too much to say. First 00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:55.039 of all, just thank you for sharing. That was 00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:59.819 obviously so sincere and so tender and so personal 00:22:59.819 --> 00:23:04.140 and I appreciate you trusting us here like that. 00:23:04.539 --> 00:23:07.519 Can I ask you a few questions now? Certainly. 00:23:08.339 --> 00:23:11.859 This angel, did you find out who this angel was? 00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:15.960 Yes, it was my grandfather. How did you find 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:21.380 that out? It struck me as strange that the whole 00:23:21.380 --> 00:23:24.859 time I was with him, he kept his face away from 00:23:24.859 --> 00:23:29.740 me. He was always either to my side and he would 00:23:29.740 --> 00:23:33.240 turn his head a little bit away from me. He never 00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:36.900 did talk to me face to face directly. Probably 00:23:36.900 --> 00:23:39.660 the closest I came to being face to face with 00:23:39.660 --> 00:23:44.039 him was when he reached for me to come with him. 00:23:44.140 --> 00:23:48.519 And yet I had the strongest sense that he loved 00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:51.480 me. and that He was someone who was special to 00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:56.539 me. So after my experience, I just thought about 00:23:56.539 --> 00:24:01.039 it quite often for a year or so. Finally decided 00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:04.680 to pray about it and to see if Heavenly Father 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:08.019 would reveal to me who He was. It was immediately 00:24:08.019 --> 00:24:10.240 made known to me that it was my grandfather, 00:24:10.500 --> 00:24:14.500 and once it was my paternal grandfather, my father's 00:24:14.500 --> 00:24:18.089 father. Once I knew who it was, then it just 00:24:18.089 --> 00:24:21.990 made so much sense because my father's parents 00:24:21.990 --> 00:24:27.230 were in many ways like parents to me. They were 00:24:27.230 --> 00:24:31.049 people in my life that had been exceptionally 00:24:31.049 --> 00:24:34.829 supportive of me and had been there for me. I 00:24:34.829 --> 00:24:38.609 had spent many, many hours in their home with 00:24:38.609 --> 00:24:42.359 them during my childhood and my youth. It was 00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:46.319 because of them that I had been able to successfully 00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:50.680 navigate several challenges from my childhood 00:24:50.680 --> 00:24:53.480 and my youth. Our relationship had been very 00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:58.000 close and always had been close and even though 00:24:58.000 --> 00:25:02.779 his spirit appeared to be about 30 years old, 00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:07.500 I wasn't surprised by that. My husband and I 00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:11.390 were blessed to see our biological children and 00:25:11.390 --> 00:25:13.890 one of our adopted children before they were 00:25:13.890 --> 00:25:18.009 born. And so they also had appeared to be about 00:25:18.009 --> 00:25:22.410 that age. I knew the sizes they would be when 00:25:22.410 --> 00:25:26.710 they were full grown. But even though the features 00:25:26.710 --> 00:25:31.029 of his spirit were those of what he would have 00:25:31.029 --> 00:25:34.750 looked like at about 30, I would have known him 00:25:34.750 --> 00:25:37.849 if I would have looked in his face directly for 00:25:37.849 --> 00:25:41.730 very long. Yeah. Tell me a little bit more about 00:25:41.730 --> 00:25:46.470 this scene where you are seeing you and Greg, 00:25:46.650 --> 00:25:49.930 your husband. But I think you said it sounded 00:25:49.930 --> 00:25:53.869 like it was before this life. Was this something 00:25:53.869 --> 00:25:56.589 a plan or a commitment that you feel like you 00:25:56.589 --> 00:26:00.509 two made before you came here to Earth? Yes. 00:26:00.990 --> 00:26:04.150 How does that work? Do we all do that? I believe 00:26:04.150 --> 00:26:08.589 we do. I believe we do. Like I said, I watched 00:26:08.589 --> 00:26:12.809 those classrooms. They were choosing what kinds 00:26:12.809 --> 00:26:16.650 of experiences that they would have or that any 00:26:16.650 --> 00:26:19.589 of us would have who were part of that existence. 00:26:20.470 --> 00:26:23.849 When I was reunited with all of my memories of 00:26:23.849 --> 00:26:27.869 who I was, Greg was an integral part of that. 00:26:28.109 --> 00:26:32.250 We had worked with each other. We had been a 00:26:32.250 --> 00:26:37.369 part of the same endeavors, the same activities, 00:26:37.670 --> 00:26:42.670 and unfortunately, in my opinion, I know there 00:26:42.670 --> 00:26:45.549 are reasons behind it, but a lot of what I was 00:26:45.549 --> 00:26:49.450 shown in that realm, once I was returned to my 00:26:49.450 --> 00:26:53.329 body, those memories were blocked again. But 00:26:53.329 --> 00:26:57.690 what I have been able to remember are just some 00:26:57.690 --> 00:27:01.390 of the key points, and one of them definitely 00:27:01.390 --> 00:27:04.880 was that Greg and I that there was already a 00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:08.960 plan in place for the two of us. We knew when 00:27:08.960 --> 00:27:13.799 we would be coming to Earth. We knew that we 00:27:13.799 --> 00:27:17.759 would find each other. We knew that we would 00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:21.500 be together as husband and wife. I would imagine, 00:27:21.700 --> 00:27:25.440 just like I was shown my life, that if either 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:29.940 one of us had really made some decisions contrary 00:27:29.940 --> 00:27:34.779 to the commitments we made, There in that existence 00:27:34.779 --> 00:27:37.720 that things could have changed but while I was 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:40.920 there and while I was reunited with those memories 00:27:40.920 --> 00:27:44.859 I knew him I knew him as though he were my best 00:27:44.859 --> 00:27:50.559 friend and the the things that I saw all of us 00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:55.180 knew what our purpose was there and we knew that 00:27:55.180 --> 00:27:58.980 we had a purpose to accomplish here in this world 00:27:58.980 --> 00:28:03.099 as well, but the things that we were we were 00:28:03.099 --> 00:28:07.240 looking to accomplish were not the things that 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:12.440 we typically think of as big accomplishments 00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:17.000 in this world. It wasn't about who was the brightest 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:21.000 and most brilliant. It wasn't about who accumulated 00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:24.680 or made the most wealth. It wasn't about who 00:28:24.680 --> 00:28:28.940 was going to be most beautiful or most popular. 00:28:29.339 --> 00:28:34.299 It was about How could we become the most loving? 00:28:35.460 --> 00:28:39.220 How could we develop the talents that we were 00:28:39.220 --> 00:28:42.420 going to be granted or that we already had? How 00:28:42.420 --> 00:28:46.339 could we further develop them and further refine 00:28:46.339 --> 00:28:51.319 them? How could we best serve God in our lives? 00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:57.579 How could we create an existence that honored 00:28:57.579 --> 00:29:02.009 our heritage? And our heritage was being children 00:29:02.009 --> 00:29:06.170 of God. You mentioned seeing other people receiving 00:29:06.170 --> 00:29:10.309 instruction in rooms. Did you feel like these 00:29:10.309 --> 00:29:12.789 were people who were getting ready to come down 00:29:12.789 --> 00:29:17.410 to earth as babies? Yes. And you mentioned the 00:29:17.410 --> 00:29:20.130 instruction had to do with trials they may go 00:29:20.130 --> 00:29:22.049 through. Do you remember anything else about 00:29:22.049 --> 00:29:25.069 what they were learning? I know that one of the 00:29:25.069 --> 00:29:28.759 rooms that I was observing Now I can't think 00:29:28.759 --> 00:29:31.500 of the name of the condition. There's a condition 00:29:31.500 --> 00:29:34.660 that people suffer from where their lungs become 00:29:34.660 --> 00:29:38.279 very congested. It's a chronic condition. I can't 00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:41.160 think of what it was called or is called. In 00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:43.880 that room, people were learning what it was like 00:29:43.880 --> 00:29:48.559 to have that condition. And they knew that their 00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:52.380 mortal existence would generally be cut short. 00:29:52.619 --> 00:29:56.039 They wouldn't have a long mortal existence if 00:29:56.039 --> 00:29:58.490 they had that condition. Are you thinking of 00:29:58.490 --> 00:30:01.390 cystic fibrosis? Yes, that's exactly what I'm 00:30:01.390 --> 00:30:05.269 thinking of. Thank you. As I look back on that, 00:30:06.009 --> 00:30:11.329 the thing that was remarkable to me is that we 00:30:11.329 --> 00:30:14.329 weren't really concerned about our longevity 00:30:14.329 --> 00:30:18.029 in this world. We weren't concerned about whether 00:30:18.029 --> 00:30:23.089 we would be here for a few years or lots of years. 00:30:23.490 --> 00:30:26.910 We weren't really concerned about getting to 00:30:26.809 --> 00:30:31.390 to be an elderly person, we were more concerned 00:30:31.390 --> 00:30:36.289 with what we could learn and what we could become 00:30:36.289 --> 00:30:41.730 in the time that we spent here. And as I watched 00:30:41.730 --> 00:30:46.230 the conversation about the cystic fibrosis, I 00:30:46.230 --> 00:30:48.730 just remember several people nodding their head 00:30:48.730 --> 00:30:52.970 like, yeah, I think this is a good one for me. 00:30:53.150 --> 00:30:57.910 I think this will really work. Other people would 00:30:57.910 --> 00:31:01.430 nod their head no and say, I think there's something 00:31:01.430 --> 00:31:04.329 else for me. I think something else would help 00:31:04.329 --> 00:31:11.190 me be more like God. And so it just wasn't the 00:31:11.190 --> 00:31:14.789 usual criteria that I would say immortality we 00:31:14.789 --> 00:31:20.329 use to make decisions. We were engrossed in finding 00:31:20.329 --> 00:31:25.650 those things that would help us. and would refine 00:31:25.650 --> 00:31:29.369 us and would make us more pure and more loving. 00:31:29.809 --> 00:31:33.170 So those physical trials and other kind of trials, 00:31:33.210 --> 00:31:36.849 I imagine, were discussed also. We had a hand 00:31:36.849 --> 00:31:40.930 in saying, yes, that's a good plan for me, which 00:31:40.930 --> 00:31:43.150 seems very difficult when we're going through 00:31:43.150 --> 00:31:46.589 those really tough things here. It seems difficult 00:31:46.589 --> 00:31:50.170 to believe. I would not have signed up for that. 00:31:53.319 --> 00:31:57.680 I totally get that. Just three years ago, a little 00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:02.079 over three years ago, our oldest daughter's husband 00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:05.319 died from a heart attack, leaving her a widow 00:32:05.319 --> 00:32:14.000 with six children to raise. And the moment that 00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:17.599 we knew he had not made it, our daughter had 00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:21.099 called us and let us know that her husband was 00:32:21.099 --> 00:32:24.309 being live flighted. into the hospital and what 00:32:24.309 --> 00:32:29.069 was going on. And so when we received the call 00:32:29.069 --> 00:32:34.890 that he had not made it, one of my first thoughts 00:32:34.890 --> 00:32:38.289 was, I can't believe this has happened. I can't 00:32:38.289 --> 00:32:41.569 believe she's going to be left alone. I can't 00:32:41.569 --> 00:32:47.609 believe Adam, his name, left her. Yet I knew 00:32:47.609 --> 00:32:52.440 that I had to trust in the Lord's plan and To 00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:56.579 this day, three years later, watching her and 00:32:56.579 --> 00:32:59.700 her children go through what they have has been 00:32:59.700 --> 00:33:05.440 incredibly difficult. And I know that in all 00:33:05.440 --> 00:33:08.200 likelihood, he was in one of those classrooms 00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:11.079 saying, yeah, I think a heart attack is what's 00:33:11.079 --> 00:33:17.000 going to be best. I don't begin to claim that 00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:19.960 I have all the answers for sure. And I certainly 00:33:19.960 --> 00:33:23.019 have. I have contemplated on that one a lot, 00:33:23.119 --> 00:33:28.039 and I still don't know the answers. I just know 00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:32.859 that for me personally, as I have navigated through 00:33:32.859 --> 00:33:36.640 many of the difficulties, basically all of the 00:33:36.640 --> 00:33:39.519 difficulties of my life, going through them, 00:33:39.900 --> 00:33:43.220 I now ask myself, really? Is this what you agreed 00:33:43.220 --> 00:33:46.839 to? But when I get more on the other side of 00:33:46.839 --> 00:33:51.569 that difficulty or that challenge that's like, 00:33:51.809 --> 00:33:56.210 okay, I can see that I learned, fill in the blank, 00:33:56.269 --> 00:33:58.910 whatever it was I learned from that experience, 00:33:59.430 --> 00:34:02.890 that probably that was exactly what I had to 00:34:02.890 --> 00:34:05.630 experience to actually learn that the way I needed 00:34:05.630 --> 00:34:08.210 to learn it. And that at that time, when we had 00:34:08.210 --> 00:34:12.409 that large perspective, the idea of not being 00:34:12.409 --> 00:34:15.829 here on earth as long as some other people, that's 00:34:15.829 --> 00:34:19.800 okay. Right. Right. That wasn't. a big problem. 00:34:20.460 --> 00:34:23.519 And the thing, I guess, that I didn't mention 00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:27.059 and it probably didn't seem relevant when I was 00:34:27.059 --> 00:34:30.519 talking about things, but time there is not the 00:34:30.519 --> 00:34:35.960 same here. Even if we live here to be an elderly 00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:40.300 age, the time we're gone from that existence 00:34:40.300 --> 00:34:45.179 is pretty much a blip in the whole eternal scheme 00:34:45.179 --> 00:34:49.070 of things. And so, you know, when we're saying 00:34:49.070 --> 00:34:53.010 goodbye to a loved one there that's coming to 00:34:53.010 --> 00:34:56.690 Earth to have that mortal experience. It's like, 00:34:56.690 --> 00:34:59.449 well, we'll see you in a week or so, you know, 00:34:59.489 --> 00:35:04.210 and like I said, time is really not completely 00:35:04.210 --> 00:35:07.969 relative there. But just to give kind of an idea 00:35:07.969 --> 00:35:12.210 for all of us there, it's like, oh, you won't, 00:35:12.210 --> 00:35:14.030 you know, you're not going to be gone terribly 00:35:14.030 --> 00:35:18.289 long. So we'll see you soon. Whereas here, because 00:35:18.289 --> 00:35:23.269 we do have time here, to think of being absent 00:35:23.269 --> 00:35:28.090 or kept from our loved ones for years and years 00:35:28.090 --> 00:35:32.130 can seem really, really daunting. It is really, 00:35:32.130 --> 00:35:35.670 really daunting, depending on the relationships 00:35:35.670 --> 00:35:38.429 we're talking about. Yeah, just a couple of other 00:35:38.429 --> 00:35:41.210 things before we wrap up, and I'll let you go 00:35:41.210 --> 00:35:43.570 because our time is short here. Learning some 00:35:43.570 --> 00:35:46.289 of these principles, I don't want anyone to take 00:35:46.289 --> 00:35:50.380 them in the wrong way. If someone is considering 00:35:50.380 --> 00:35:53.800 taking their own life, please realize you're 00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:57.500 loved. People here need you and want you and 00:35:57.500 --> 00:36:00.659 there is help. Don't forget the suicide hotline 00:36:00.659 --> 00:36:03.760 number, which is 988 from all over the United 00:36:03.760 --> 00:36:06.619 States and many, many countries around the world. 00:36:07.300 --> 00:36:11.260 So please stay here with us. We want you here. 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:14.360 Absolutely. God is loving, but you have a purpose. 00:36:14.750 --> 00:36:18.630 In fact, part of my work now will be focusing 00:36:18.630 --> 00:36:22.510 on helping those who are experiencing depression 00:36:22.510 --> 00:36:27.809 and suicidal ideation to hang in there because 00:36:27.809 --> 00:36:33.070 suicide is not the answer. It can seem like the 00:36:33.070 --> 00:36:37.190 answer when your thoughts are being influenced 00:36:37.190 --> 00:36:42.989 by depression, by mental health issues, but we 00:36:42.989 --> 00:36:48.099 all have important important things to do and 00:36:48.099 --> 00:36:53.480 to accomplish and anytime we feel that that's 00:36:53.480 --> 00:36:57.219 for everyone else but not me I don't matter I'm 00:36:57.219 --> 00:37:00.159 not important I don't have an important mission 00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:04.079 those are all lies those are thoughts being fed 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:10.139 by Satan and he's very real I have had some scary 00:37:10.139 --> 00:37:13.639 encounters with him in this life and or those 00:37:13.639 --> 00:37:16.840 that his the angels that follow him and they're 00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:22.019 real and their work is real but so is God's work 00:37:22.019 --> 00:37:25.480 and the fact that we are God's children is real 00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:29.880 and that we have a mission to accomplish is absolutely 00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:33.289 and incredibly important and real. One other 00:37:33.289 --> 00:37:36.050 quick thing before I let you go, Jo, and that 00:37:36.050 --> 00:37:38.389 is I know that you've written all this stuff 00:37:38.389 --> 00:37:41.150 down, and there's a whole lot more that we didn't 00:37:41.150 --> 00:37:44.389 get into about your adopted children and that 00:37:44.389 --> 00:37:47.150 really cool story and stuff. Did you stick this 00:37:47.150 --> 00:37:51.829 in book form? I did. What's it called? It's called 00:37:51.829 --> 00:37:54.829 A Glimpse of Heaven, One Woman's Life -Altering 00:37:54.829 --> 00:37:59.730 Visit with God. And in my book, I do share my 00:37:59.730 --> 00:38:05.139 near -death experience. I also share the experience 00:38:05.139 --> 00:38:09.719 of being directed by God to find my son Andrew, 00:38:10.260 --> 00:38:13.860 the resulting adoption six and a half years later 00:38:13.860 --> 00:38:19.780 of him and his sister from Russia, and my experience 00:38:19.780 --> 00:38:24.659 of being healed from my 24 -7 migraines. Joe, 00:38:24.699 --> 00:38:28.300 this seemed like a really personal, emotional 00:38:28.300 --> 00:38:31.099 thing for you. And I know you don't share this 00:38:31.099 --> 00:38:34.039 very often. How does it make you feel when you 00:38:34.039 --> 00:38:37.440 share this experience? That's a really great 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:43.139 question. How did you feel today? I feel God 00:38:43.139 --> 00:38:47.320 with me when I share this experience. I feel 00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:51.199 God with me most days, quite frankly. That relationship 00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:55.619 that I have with Him is incredibly important 00:38:55.619 --> 00:39:01.530 to me. But what I feel, I guess, As I share my 00:39:01.530 --> 00:39:06.070 experience, is that I'm fulfilling part of my 00:39:06.070 --> 00:39:10.650 mission. There's kind of a feeling like I'm being 00:39:10.650 --> 00:39:15.190 blessed to potentially help somebody, to potentially 00:39:15.190 --> 00:39:19.969 increase somebody's understanding. I don't go 00:39:19.969 --> 00:39:22.909 around every day saying, hey, can I share this 00:39:22.909 --> 00:39:27.599 experience with you? But at the same time, There's 00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:30.460 a real part of me that wants to kind of shout 00:39:30.460 --> 00:39:34.239 out to the world, even though that's not generally 00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:38.239 a possibility. This is what you should know. 00:39:38.579 --> 00:39:42.679 This is what I would want you to know, is that 00:39:42.679 --> 00:39:46.780 you are having difficult experiences, you are 00:39:46.780 --> 00:39:50.079 having learning experiences, but none of us is 00:39:50.079 --> 00:39:55.260 alone. We all have not only a perfect God and 00:39:55.260 --> 00:39:58.900 His Son, and the Holy Ghost to help us, but we 00:39:58.900 --> 00:40:03.739 have this legion of angels that I feel surround 00:40:03.739 --> 00:40:08.019 all of us more if we're asking for their help, 00:40:08.800 --> 00:40:12.360 less if we're not, but we have at our access 00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:17.219 just amazing assistance and help if we're willing 00:40:17.219 --> 00:40:20.610 to ask for it and then utilize it. That's a beautiful 00:40:20.610 --> 00:40:23.489 way to summarize and conclude. Thank you for 00:40:23.489 --> 00:40:26.349 joining me today, Jo. I really appreciate it. 00:40:26.750 --> 00:40:31.150 You're welcome. Thanks again for listening and 00:40:31.150 --> 00:40:33.510 sharing this podcast. Don't forget to hit the 00:40:33.510 --> 00:40:36.269 follow or subscribe button and sign up for our 00:40:36.269 --> 00:40:39.110 newsletter at roundtripdeath .com. If you want 00:40:39.110 --> 00:40:41.690 to share your near -death experience, or if you 00:40:41.690 --> 00:40:44.030 have questions or comments about the show, send 00:40:44.030 --> 00:40:47.590 an email to eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until 00:40:47.590 --> 00:40:49.550 then, I wish you everything good that you're 00:40:49.550 --> 00:40:51.969 looking for in this life and the next.