From the time that they pronounced me dead was
a good 45 minutes. They cut my clothes and then
they paddled my heart, my heart stopped and I
could see people screaming and crying but I didn't
realize that was actually my physical body because
I was somewhere else. The only thing that I could
feel if you could imagine absolute love and peace
there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was
greeted by people I had known in the past. I'm
back home again. Incredibly safe and felt at
home. Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody.
And please give a warm welcome to our special
guest coming to us from Montana today. And this
is Joanna Oblander. Please tell me I pronounced
that right. Close. Oblander. Oblander. Okay.
Anyway, Jo, how are you today? I'm good. Thank
you. Good. Well, Just to give everybody a heads
up, when we talk with people that have had near
-death experiences, some of them are short, some
are long, some have a lot of detail, some not
so much. It seems like recently on the show we've
had quite a few people on that have had these
very brief NDEs. You're in for a treat today
because Joanna, Joe, wow, this is going to take
some time because we have a lot to unpack here.
So hold on to your hats, everybody. And Joe,
before we jump into your experience, would you
mind letting us get to know you a little bit?
Just give us a one minute on who you are or what
you do or anything so that we can get to know
you. I'm happily married to my husband, Greg.
In fact, we just celebrated our anniversary,
our 47th anniversary yesterday. Congratulations.
Thank you. Unfortunately, we didn't get to spend
it together. My husband. serves in the Montana
legislature and they're in their final days of
the session. My mother of six children, grandmother
of 22 grandchildren going on 23. We live here
in Montana. We love it here. We love the mountains.
We love being in the outdoors and we love just
everything. We're blessed to be surrounded by
here. That's fantastic. Well, if we go back quite
a few years, you were dealing with some real
medical issues. I don't know if you want to give
us just a brief background. You don't have to
go into any personal details, but I know you
had severe migraines for years. Tell me what
was going on with your health that led up to
your near -death experience. About the time I
turned 30, I started having 24 -7 headaches.
And at the time, I didn't know I was having migraine
headaches. I thought they were muscle tension
headaches. That's what the doctors told me. Regardless
of what the type of headache was, I was in excruciating
pain 24 -7. I ended up having those headaches
for about 15 years, about year 13 of those headaches.
I was so worn out, deeply affected by those headaches
that I slid into deep depression, which eventually
became suicidal depression. Okay. Go ahead and
keep going. You want me to relate my experience?
Yeah. Yeah. How did it start and give us an idea
of what happened? I'll stop you and ask some
questions as we go. During the time that I had
the headaches, I was raising a family of active
kids. There's a story behind this as well, but
my husband and I ended up adopting two children
from Russia. There was the stress of that. We
were self -employed. We had left a corporate
job. With the adoption of the two children from
Russia, we felt like we needed to have additional
income, and so we became involved in two businesses.
So I was helping to run a family with six active
children, two of which were learning English
and assimilating into our culture and our family,
running two businesses. For those that are self
-employed, you know what a responsibility that
is. Health was not good because I wasn't taking
care of it. I was running on adrenaline full
-time just to keep up with my life. It finally
got to the point where physically, mentally,
emotionally, I just wasn't handling anything
very well. Our businesses started suffering as
a result. I knew it was because of me. I was
under a lot of pressure, under a lot of stress.
I knew I was blessed. I knew I was blessed with
an amazing husband, wonderful children, but I
began to feel that I was a burden in their lives.
I felt like it was my fault that everything was
beginning to kind of crash around us. And one
of my triggers during the years that I was depressed
was financial issues, and we were having a lot
of them. had a couple of bill collectors call
me one day. One of them told me when I tried
to explain to her what was going on with my health
that it was all my fault. I wanted to be like
that. And she essentially confirmed what I was
already feeling in my thoughts, which was that
it was all my fault. I was responsible. I was
a horrible person. So at the end of that day,
I was done. I knew I had worked as hard as I
possibly could to do the best job I could at
all my various roles of being a business owner,
a mom, a wife, a friend, and I was failing and
I had failed in my mind. And so I got on my knees
and I shared with God through prayer that I was
done. That he knew and I knew that I'd given
it the very best I had, but I didn't have any
more to give. If he chose to send me to hell
after I committed suicide, that would be okay
because it couldn't be any worse than what I
was already going through. My plan was the next
day while my family was gone to take my life.
So as I climbed into bed and tried to hide my
tears from my husband, I fell asleep. But shortly
after I fell asleep, an angel appeared above
my head and he motioned for me to take his hand.
And I did. and he pulled me from my body, pulled
my spirit from my body. And he held onto my hand
and he took me through what I call a conduit.
It was like a circular tunnel. I could see the
walls of the conduit. I could see that they were
clear. I could see the galaxies we were traveling
through. I knew we were traveling very quickly,
but I didn't have any sensation. of travel other
than I could see that we were moving past the
galaxies we were passing through and when we
arrived at our destination I saw this complex
of rooms and I knew I had returned to a place
I'd been before and I don't know that I could
necessarily called that complex of rooms home
but I knew that I was in a place that I not only
had been before but that had been a place of
love and acceptance. I looked at the rooms in
front of me and as I looked at each of the rooms
I could see through the walls. It was like the
walls would would move so that I could see into
the rooms and I could hear what was going on
in the rooms. And it was within a very short
amount of time I could remember the layout of
that complex and what rooms were used for what
subjects and what teachers were teaching in those
rooms and those subjects. And they weren't the
kind of subjects that we typically think of in
a high school or college setting, instead these
rooms were teaching those students what it would
be like to have certain earthly experiences,
what it would be like to have migraine headaches,
what it would be like to have a disability of
a particular kind, what it would be like to go
through a traumatic earth experience. and all
of those rooms and all of those classes were
trying to help us choose those experiences that
would help us become more like our Father in
Heaven. That's what all of us in those rooms
wanted, is we just loved Him so much and we just
were so filled with desire and love for Him.
We just wanted so much to emulate Him and to
become like He was. I became very engrossed in
watching those rooms and listening to the discussions
that were being had. My angel grabbed my attention
and directed me to look towards a room that was
to my left. The room he was directing me to was
not a classroom. And again, I could see through
the walls of the room. and I instantly recognized
the form of the being that was in that room,
and it was my father in heaven. And I was surprised
at how easily I recognized him, especially since
his back was towards me, and I could see that
he was looking towards the door of the room.
And he could also see through the walls and the
door. I could tell from watching him. And he
was watching a man and a woman approach the door.
As he saw them, he moved towards the door to
open it, to invite them in. And as he did so,
I could see who the man and woman were. And it
was me and the man who is now my husband. husband's
name is Greg and I watched him welcome us into
the room and as he welcomed us into the room
I began to experience the event both from beside
my angel and as I had experienced it back in
that realm of existence and I knew that I was
being allowed to witness an event in my existence
that had taken place prior to my being born here
upon this earth. I was able to feel my father
embrace me and welcome me into that room. I knew
that I had been asked to come to that meeting
for a special purpose, something that was important.
Somehow I knew that my husband, Greg, who in
that situation was not my husband, but instead
a very, very close friend. At that point I knew
that plans had already been made, at least in
general, for our lives on Earth, and that it
had been planned that Greg and I would be married
in this life. We would be together during our
lives on Earth. Somehow I knew that Greg knew
the purpose of this meeting. and I didn't yet.
My father in heaven instructed me to come and
sit in a chair. There were two high back chairs
in the room and they were arranged so that they
were so close. They weren't directly across from
each other. They were more at an angle to each
other so that he could easily hold my hands.
He had Greg stand behind my chair. He shared
with me that he had invited me there for that
meeting because he had a very important mission
that he wanted to request of me. He explained
that he knew that what he was asking me to do
would be difficult, but that with his help, he
knew I would be able to accomplish it. From that
point on, I no longer observed the meeting. alongside
my angel, but instead I experienced the meeting
as it had originally taken place. I guess I should
back up a little bit. As I had watched God the
Father approach that room, what I'll call the
veil or the block over my memories was taken
away. I was able to see and remember my existence.
In that realm, I was able to see who I really
was, my abilities, my capacities, my talents,
my intelligence, everything I understood. I had
been overwhelmed with what I had seen. I saw
not only myself, but others. I saw our fight
for truth, our fight to support God. against
Satan. I had seen how, no matter who we were
or what talents we did or didn't have, how we
completely honored each other and supported each
other. And that realm was just so, so completely
infused with love and light and unity. So once
I had become acquainted with who I really was,
then all of my mortal fears and doubts, discouragement,
all of those things that are so easily a part
of our mortal existence were gone. And I just
felt this sense of ability, sense of having at
my... at my will, the knowledge, the resources,
whatever I needed to accomplish, whatever goal
I might have to serve God and to serve His purposes.
And that was my whole intent in everything I
did. For those of us who had fought with God,
we were all like that. We all just wanted so
much to serve Him and to be like Him. As I sat
in that meeting and sat in the chair, God held
my hands and talked to me. He motioned for me
to look through the conduit the angel had brought
me through. And instead of seeming like it was
galaxies and galaxies away, it was more like
I could just see from within that room, my mortal
life, what it would look like and how it would
transpire if I chose to accept the mission. that
God was asking me to accept. I saw all of the
details. I saw my childhood, my adult life, everything
that would happen. God let me know that He knew
that it would be difficult, but that He knew
I would be able to accomplish it as long as I
looked to Him for guidance, as long as I stayed
close to Him. After having experienced my reuniting
with what I call my real self, not my mortal
self, for the first time I felt some real trepidation.
I had seen what would happen. I was really concerned
that I would fail my father in heaven. I really
didn't want to fail him. I started thinking that
maybe it would be better if he let someone else
take that assignment instead of me. He was able
to read my thoughts and he held my hands a little
tighter and he assured me that I would be able
to accomplish the mission that he was asking
of me. but several times he told me he would
understood if I chose not to accept the mission.
At no point in time during that meeting did he
make me feel pressured or that he was insistent.
He just let me know that he was hopeful that
I would accept that mission and he continued
to remind me that as long as I remembered him.
I would succeed. And I knew that He couldn't
lie to me. I also knew that if during my mortal
life that I chose not to rely or to remember
God in my life, if I didn't rely on His guidance
and I rejected Him or turned against Him in any
way, that the things I had been shown of my life
would change, that what I had been shown, even
though there was great difficulties involved,
that what I had been shown was what would occur
in my life as long as I remembered Him, as long
as I relied on Him. And if I strayed from remembering
Him, then various events could be altered or
changed. I contemplated for several minutes And
as I mentioned before, it was probably one of
the rare moments in that existence that I had
felt any kind of trepidation or doubt. But I
knew that God could not lie to me. And I knew
that He wanted me to accept that mission. And
I knew that I could succeed as long as I relied
on Him. And so... accepted the mission and he
looked at me and I looked at him and for a few
moments I was able to look at him with my mortal
understanding and I looked upon his face that
was so perfect, so loving, so familiar. and I
wondered how I had been able to forget his face.
I wondered how I had been able to forget my interactions
with him, my life with him. He smiled at me and
he just let me know, he said, you have, thank
you. He told me that he loved me and he told
me that I had chosen wisely and he thanked me
for my willingness to serve him. From that point,
he stood and let us know that he loved us and
he embraced us both once again. I just asked
in his embrace and his love for me. At that point,
our meeting was over and my angel took me again
and returned me to my body. I don't remember
my return trip. to Earth and I don't remember
being placed in my body. I just remember knowing
I was back in my body and knowing what had just
happened to me. I had hoped that when I returned
to my body, that my body would be healed and
that I would not have headaches anymore. But
when I returned to my body, I returned to a body
that was still in a lot of pain and still having
24 -7 migraines. Still deeply, deeply depressed,
but I had been extended a lifeline. I knew that
even though it was going to be really, really
difficult to hang on to life, that I had to.
That I had to figure it out. That I had to finish
my mission. Wow, thank you. I don't know what
to say. I usually have too much to say. First
of all, just thank you for sharing. That was
obviously so sincere and so tender and so personal
and I appreciate you trusting us here like that.
Can I ask you a few questions now? Certainly.
This angel, did you find out who this angel was?
Yes, it was my grandfather. How did you find
that out? It struck me as strange that the whole
time I was with him, he kept his face away from
me. He was always either to my side and he would
turn his head a little bit away from me. He never
did talk to me face to face directly. Probably
the closest I came to being face to face with
him was when he reached for me to come with him.
And yet I had the strongest sense that he loved
me. and that He was someone who was special to
me. So after my experience, I just thought about
it quite often for a year or so. Finally decided
to pray about it and to see if Heavenly Father
would reveal to me who He was. It was immediately
made known to me that it was my grandfather,
and once it was my paternal grandfather, my father's
father. Once I knew who it was, then it just
made so much sense because my father's parents
were in many ways like parents to me. They were
people in my life that had been exceptionally
supportive of me and had been there for me. I
had spent many, many hours in their home with
them during my childhood and my youth. It was
because of them that I had been able to successfully
navigate several challenges from my childhood
and my youth. Our relationship had been very
close and always had been close and even though
his spirit appeared to be about 30 years old,
I wasn't surprised by that. My husband and I
were blessed to see our biological children and
one of our adopted children before they were
born. And so they also had appeared to be about
that age. I knew the sizes they would be when
they were full grown. But even though the features
of his spirit were those of what he would have
looked like at about 30, I would have known him
if I would have looked in his face directly for
very long. Yeah. Tell me a little bit more about
this scene where you are seeing you and Greg,
your husband. But I think you said it sounded
like it was before this life. Was this something
a plan or a commitment that you feel like you
two made before you came here to Earth? Yes.
How does that work? Do we all do that? I believe
we do. I believe we do. Like I said, I watched
those classrooms. They were choosing what kinds
of experiences that they would have or that any
of us would have who were part of that existence.
When I was reunited with all of my memories of
who I was, Greg was an integral part of that.
We had worked with each other. We had been a
part of the same endeavors, the same activities,
and unfortunately, in my opinion, I know there
are reasons behind it, but a lot of what I was
shown in that realm, once I was returned to my
body, those memories were blocked again. But
what I have been able to remember are just some
of the key points, and one of them definitely
was that Greg and I that there was already a
plan in place for the two of us. We knew when
we would be coming to Earth. We knew that we
would find each other. We knew that we would
be together as husband and wife. I would imagine,
just like I was shown my life, that if either
one of us had really made some decisions contrary
to the commitments we made, There in that existence
that things could have changed but while I was
there and while I was reunited with those memories
I knew him I knew him as though he were my best
friend and the the things that I saw all of us
knew what our purpose was there and we knew that
we had a purpose to accomplish here in this world
as well, but the things that we were we were
looking to accomplish were not the things that
we typically think of as big accomplishments
in this world. It wasn't about who was the brightest
and most brilliant. It wasn't about who accumulated
or made the most wealth. It wasn't about who
was going to be most beautiful or most popular.
It was about How could we become the most loving?
How could we develop the talents that we were
going to be granted or that we already had? How
could we further develop them and further refine
them? How could we best serve God in our lives?
How could we create an existence that honored
our heritage? And our heritage was being children
of God. You mentioned seeing other people receiving
instruction in rooms. Did you feel like these
were people who were getting ready to come down
to earth as babies? Yes. And you mentioned the
instruction had to do with trials they may go
through. Do you remember anything else about
what they were learning? I know that one of the
rooms that I was observing Now I can't think
of the name of the condition. There's a condition
that people suffer from where their lungs become
very congested. It's a chronic condition. I can't
think of what it was called or is called. In
that room, people were learning what it was like
to have that condition. And they knew that their
mortal existence would generally be cut short.
They wouldn't have a long mortal existence if
they had that condition. Are you thinking of
cystic fibrosis? Yes, that's exactly what I'm
thinking of. Thank you. As I look back on that,
the thing that was remarkable to me is that we
weren't really concerned about our longevity
in this world. We weren't concerned about whether
we would be here for a few years or lots of years.
We weren't really concerned about getting to
to be an elderly person, we were more concerned
with what we could learn and what we could become
in the time that we spent here. And as I watched
the conversation about the cystic fibrosis, I
just remember several people nodding their head
like, yeah, I think this is a good one for me.
I think this will really work. Other people would
nod their head no and say, I think there's something
else for me. I think something else would help
me be more like God. And so it just wasn't the
usual criteria that I would say immortality we
use to make decisions. We were engrossed in finding
those things that would help us. and would refine
us and would make us more pure and more loving.
So those physical trials and other kind of trials,
I imagine, were discussed also. We had a hand
in saying, yes, that's a good plan for me, which
seems very difficult when we're going through
those really tough things here. It seems difficult
to believe. I would not have signed up for that.
I totally get that. Just three years ago, a little
over three years ago, our oldest daughter's husband
died from a heart attack, leaving her a widow
with six children to raise. And the moment that
we knew he had not made it, our daughter had
called us and let us know that her husband was
being live flighted. into the hospital and what
was going on. And so when we received the call
that he had not made it, one of my first thoughts
was, I can't believe this has happened. I can't
believe she's going to be left alone. I can't
believe Adam, his name, left her. Yet I knew
that I had to trust in the Lord's plan and To
this day, three years later, watching her and
her children go through what they have has been
incredibly difficult. And I know that in all
likelihood, he was in one of those classrooms
saying, yeah, I think a heart attack is what's
going to be best. I don't begin to claim that
I have all the answers for sure. And I certainly
have. I have contemplated on that one a lot,
and I still don't know the answers. I just know
that for me personally, as I have navigated through
many of the difficulties, basically all of the
difficulties of my life, going through them,
I now ask myself, really? Is this what you agreed
to? But when I get more on the other side of
that difficulty or that challenge that's like,
okay, I can see that I learned, fill in the blank,
whatever it was I learned from that experience,
that probably that was exactly what I had to
experience to actually learn that the way I needed
to learn it. And that at that time, when we had
that large perspective, the idea of not being
here on earth as long as some other people, that's
okay. Right. Right. That wasn't. a big problem.
And the thing, I guess, that I didn't mention
and it probably didn't seem relevant when I was
talking about things, but time there is not the
same here. Even if we live here to be an elderly
age, the time we're gone from that existence
is pretty much a blip in the whole eternal scheme
of things. And so, you know, when we're saying
goodbye to a loved one there that's coming to
Earth to have that mortal experience. It's like,
well, we'll see you in a week or so, you know,
and like I said, time is really not completely
relative there. But just to give kind of an idea
for all of us there, it's like, oh, you won't,
you know, you're not going to be gone terribly
long. So we'll see you soon. Whereas here, because
we do have time here, to think of being absent
or kept from our loved ones for years and years
can seem really, really daunting. It is really,
really daunting, depending on the relationships
we're talking about. Yeah, just a couple of other
things before we wrap up, and I'll let you go
because our time is short here. Learning some
of these principles, I don't want anyone to take
them in the wrong way. If someone is considering
taking their own life, please realize you're
loved. People here need you and want you and
there is help. Don't forget the suicide hotline
number, which is 988 from all over the United
States and many, many countries around the world.
So please stay here with us. We want you here.
Absolutely. God is loving, but you have a purpose.
In fact, part of my work now will be focusing
on helping those who are experiencing depression
and suicidal ideation to hang in there because
suicide is not the answer. It can seem like the
answer when your thoughts are being influenced
by depression, by mental health issues, but we
all have important important things to do and
to accomplish and anytime we feel that that's
for everyone else but not me I don't matter I'm
not important I don't have an important mission
those are all lies those are thoughts being fed
by Satan and he's very real I have had some scary
encounters with him in this life and or those
that his the angels that follow him and they're
real and their work is real but so is God's work
and the fact that we are God's children is real
and that we have a mission to accomplish is absolutely
and incredibly important and real. One other
quick thing before I let you go, Jo, and that
is I know that you've written all this stuff
down, and there's a whole lot more that we didn't
get into about your adopted children and that
really cool story and stuff. Did you stick this
in book form? I did. What's it called? It's called
A Glimpse of Heaven, One Woman's Life -Altering
Visit with God. And in my book, I do share my
near -death experience. I also share the experience
of being directed by God to find my son Andrew,
the resulting adoption six and a half years later
of him and his sister from Russia, and my experience
of being healed from my 24 -7 migraines. Joe,
this seemed like a really personal, emotional
thing for you. And I know you don't share this
very often. How does it make you feel when you
share this experience? That's a really great
question. How did you feel today? I feel God
with me when I share this experience. I feel
God with me most days, quite frankly. That relationship
that I have with Him is incredibly important
to me. But what I feel, I guess, As I share my
experience, is that I'm fulfilling part of my
mission. There's kind of a feeling like I'm being
blessed to potentially help somebody, to potentially
increase somebody's understanding. I don't go
around every day saying, hey, can I share this
experience with you? But at the same time, There's
a real part of me that wants to kind of shout
out to the world, even though that's not generally
a possibility. This is what you should know.
This is what I would want you to know, is that
you are having difficult experiences, you are
having learning experiences, but none of us is
alone. We all have not only a perfect God and
His Son, and the Holy Ghost to help us, but we
have this legion of angels that I feel surround
all of us more if we're asking for their help,
less if we're not, but we have at our access
just amazing assistance and help if we're willing
to ask for it and then utilize it. That's a beautiful
way to summarize and conclude. Thank you for
joining me today, Jo. I really appreciate it.
You're welcome. Thanks again for listening and
sharing this podcast. Don't forget to hit the
follow or subscribe button and sign up for our
newsletter at roundtripdeath .com. If you want
to share your near -death experience, or if you
have questions or comments about the show, send
an email to eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until
then, I wish you everything good that you're
looking for in this life and the next.