From the time that they pronounced me dead was
a good 45 minutes. They cut my clothes and then
they paddled. My heart, my heart had stopped
and I could see people screaming and crying but
I didn't realise that was actually my physical
body because I was somewhere else. The only thing
that I could feel if you could imagine absolute
love and peace, there wasn't anything else to
be felt. I was greeted by people I'd known in
the past. I'm back home again. Incredibly safe
and felt at home. Welcome, welcome to Round Trip
Death, everybody. And we have a very special
guest today. This is going to be fun. Hertha
Lund. She is in the beautiful state of Montana.
And welcome to the show, Hertha. So nice to be
here, Eric. I've been really excited to talk
to you. We've been going back and forth and talked
a while back and people are going to love your
near death experience and especially all the
things that you learned from it and how life
transforming it was in a lot of ways. Just quickly
before we jump into that, tell us a little bit
about you. Let's get to know Hertha. Well, I
am in Montana and I grew up here. I actually
grew up on a rural ranch near Zortman, Montana,
where we were 50 miles from any town that had
services. And for me, it was a slice of heaven
on earth because I got to be with my horses.
And being outside with horses, I always had an
affinity and a religious experience, kind of
from the inside out, but it was with horses and
outside, and then I felt like one was something
greater than me. But I also had hell, and that
was an inside. My mom was not really meant to
be mom. She was not mom material. She had her
own early childhood trauma that she did not deal
with, except for with alcohol. I was the oldest
daughter, and so she was pretty abusive towards
me because she hadn't dealt with her own trauma.
Anyhow, she choked me. Anywhere around her was
somewhat dangerous. And so I learned how to escape
and I stuffed all that trauma. Also early on,
I had early childhood sexual abuse at five from
a neighbor kid. And so with those things, I started
really early wanting to go home, back to God.
I spent most of my life before my dear death
experience really wanting to go home. Along with
that, I also became an overachiever. I was a
state champion in rodeo and basketball in the
same year. During college, I was a pre -vet,
pre -med student. I also played on the college
basketball team and the college rodeo team. So
I got good grades and did all that. So I became
an overachiever as a way to escape the pain that
I didn't want to feel. I covered Congress as
a journalist after going to journalism school
on the East Coast, covered the United States
Supreme Court. did a case that had to do with
the takings of private property. And during that
case, I decided I wanted to go to law school
and protect other people. We had lost our family
ranch when I was in college. So I went to law
school, went back to D .C. clerk for the chief
judge, United States Court of Federal Claims,
which was a very much a plum job. Came back to
Montana, practiced in Montana, in Washington
state, in Wyoming. and then back to Montana,
been all over the West doing natural resource
policy issue, property rights, water rights.
And being a lawyer, it was very much met up with
my need to try to suppress slowing down to feel.
That's kind of led to my illness that set me
up to be able to have the near -death experience.
Now, before that, I had almost left a couple
of other times. And note that I had an ongoing
conversation with God telling him I wanted to
come home, that obviously you sent me to the
wrong place. Even telling you that right now,
I get spirit tingles. This was a hard place for
me to be because of the trauma and the harshness
that people treat each other with. I mean, with
my horses, I felt comfortable, but people could
be kind of mean. You talk about overachiever.
Absolutely. Well, congratulations on all that.
I've talked to so many people that have had NDEs
that had abusive childhoods and I never know
what to say. I just want to say I'm so sorry
and wrap my arms around you that you had to go
through that. Maybe you can help me. What is
an even better thing for me to say or express
those feelings to others in the future? That
actually worked. I felt it and it was comforting
to me. But note that until somebody tell I could
deal with the trauma, I had to block out anything
that was too supportive. because it could tip
me over. I mean, right now I'm pretty, I no longer
have the propensity to go down the road of feeling.
I can talk to you from a wound that's healed.
So it depends on where the wound is. It's not,
it's always okay to say, I'm sorry that happened
to you. I mean, that's probably the safest thing
until you know where they're at in their healing
process. We know when somebody else is kind and
loving, you could have just almost smiled. I
can feel your love, you know, and your support
of me. even because of the fact that you just
honestly have that inside you. Thank you. All
right. Well, let's get to the task at hand today.
Talking about near -death experiences. Yours
happened about nine years ago. What led up to
it? You mentioned your health a second ago. What
was going on? So as soon as I started practicing
law, that actually added a whole other layer
of stress and that tipped me over into experiencing
the physical remnants of pain or the pain that
was stuck in my body. So that would have been
1995. I go on for 21 years practicing law, handling
the stress, but sometimes not so well. Then one
year it started that I had inflammation around
my heart. I didn't know what it was at first.
It hurt just like in a rectangle around my heart.
I went to the doctor in and out of the emergency
room and I had pericarditis, which is inflammation
around the heart. It just kept on getting worse.
Apparently, they don't know what causes pericarditis
and they don't know how to treat it. So I was
hospitalized. I took one trip in the ambulance
because it got so bad that the pain caused me
to go into shock. And so I got a ride in the
ambulance. About three months after that, I couldn't
hardly function anymore. I'd been hospitalized
for a couple of weekends. I chose to go to a
different hospital. My husband took me there,
and I was visiting a heart doctor. I said, I
think you should admit me, because I was pretty
sharp. I was a pre -med student. I was like,
I may have septus because all my symptoms were
getting so bad. And they did admit me and I had
severe inflammation in around my heart. I also
had pneumonia and pleuritis. So everything in
my chest cavity was severely inflamed. My CRP,
which is a measurement for inflammation, they
get nervous if it's more than seven. Mine was
197. Yeah, doctors get nervous. Some would even
come and look at me because they'd never seen
me so sick. So I'm in the hospital and I'm not
on the regular floor. There's a floor, I wasn't
in intensive care, there's a floor in between
intensive care and the regular floor. And that's
where if you have heart surgery, after you get
out of intensive care, you go to this, I don't
know, the cause of middle floor. And you get
more care there, but you're not as serious as
ICU. So I wasn't intubated, but I was on oxygen.
around me people coded and died and one night
it was right across the hall so I could witness
that and note that I'm hardly sleeping because
I have so much pain with all that inflammation
it was systemic mostly around my heart and lungs
but everything hurt my teeth fillings hurt I'm
observing all this and then that one night I'm
like laying there and I was like huh I could
die too it's like yes you could and I'm like
well I've never really liked it here I usually
call it a shit show that's what I'm like I shouldn't
talk to God that way And then all of a sudden,
I just I feel and I thought about who I loved.
I thought about my husband and I felt into and
I'm like, you know, he will miss me. We have
a really good relationship. I thought about my
pets, my horses and everything. And I thought,
you know what? I think everybody would be OK
if I go home now. And then I realized it's like
I kind of laughed like it's true. I'm not thinking
about my success, how much I won the state championships,
the cases I won, the money I made. All I'm thinking
about is who and what I loved and God. And then
I just left. I was encapsulated in this white
and gold shimmery light. I mean, it was bigger
than, in this consciousness, even as soon as
I started separating from my body, there is no
time and space. I was totally at home, warm.
I felt like I was one with God. and everything
was coming home, and I just keep on going up,
up, up. And this column of light was bigger than
the universe. There is no time or space. It was
just huge and vast, all -encompassing. Up, up,
up, and I'm high in the upper atmosphere, and
I'm loving it. And at one level, I feel like
I'm a little four -year -old running to my heavenly
parents' lap, and I just can't wait to get there.
And then I think about it. I'm like, I'm going
to meet my spiritual advisor, whom I love. And
I'm not done. I did not complete my reason for
being here. You know, I knew that I was accepted.
I was loved. There was nothing but love. And
somebody asked me, did you see God? And I was
like, no, no, I was God. It was inside me. I
mean, it was the most magnificent thing to be
one with this light and love that's so much greater
than us. And as soon as I realized I wasn't done,
my number one value is integrity, honor. I thought
about it. I'm like, I want to finish. I felt
like I only had a nanosecond. I didn't have time
to think it through or do pluses and minuses,
any of that type of analysis. So I went to my
heart and my gut and I made a promise, two promises.
I said, I promise I'll do whatever it takes to
get whole and I promise I will do whatever it
takes to get in my body. As soon as I made the
promise, I just fell high out of the upper atmosphere
and I come right back into my body, thud, thunk.
And it was awful. I felt like I was crawling
into a dead elk carcass on the interstate. I
mean, I go from this high consciousness of oneness,
peace, all this light and love to being in my
sick body, which literally felt like a carcass.
And so that's where I started the last nine years
of my healing journey. I could say that I'm healthier
now than I've ever been. I did not get scar tissue
around my heart and lungs that the doctors thought
I would from having so much inflammation. I no
longer have the chronic pain that I had before
dying. Multiple different doctors had told me
that I would probably never get rid of the conditions
that I had. I had fibromyalgia. I don't have
that. I just had no idea I could live on Earth
with such a good feeling in my body. Alright
I want to start sort of at the end and work our
way backwards and then I'm going to ask you to
fill in more details if you can. One thing that
always fascinates me is how people explain coming
back into their body and you made it sound like
just this thud and it was horrible. It was not
a good experience. That is very typical by the
way although it's explained in a lot of different
ways. Is there anything else that you can add
to that? It is the worst feeling. I think it's,
I obviously don't remember being born the first
time, but I think it's way worse than being born
the first time. Because coming from that awareness
and experience of being so high up and the feelings
of love and oneness that we all long for, I think,
but we just don't necessarily believe it exists
until we experience it again. I was out of the
body, but I still had a body, I guess. But when
I came back in and my body was so sick, it was
literally like putting a I think that the elk
carcass captures it. I mean, I felt like I was
crawling into something that did not belong to
me. And at that point, since I promised I would
do whatever it took, I didn't allow myself the
indulgence of complaining. But at that time,
I'm like, am I really going to be able to transform
this body, this carcass that is so sick, into
something that can house, the part of me that
experienced light and love and such wholeness,
the extraordinary consciousness that exists up
there outside of our body. And I have to say,
just telling you the story, I get excited. You
notice I'm talking faster because I can feel
the energy again. But I haven't been able to
manifest it at the level that I experienced it
during the near -death experience daily. But
that is my goal. My sense is if we know about
it and experienced it, I should be able to live
in that consciousness fully in my body. So that's
my goal. Let's contrast that coming back into
your body to if you remember what it felt like
leaving your body. Now note that I wasn't very
attached to my body because of the early childhood
trauma. I always wanted to go home and my number
one defense for the pain that I felt was I was
very good at disassociation. which means I would
leave as a strategy to not feel the pain in my
body. I would live, exist above it. That's also
something we do when we have trauma as a way
to just be able to continue to exist. So that
was one of my skills. So leaving was not hard
for me. In fact, it was very hard even once I
came back to learn how to first live in my body.
I had to go through what's called sabbatic experiencing.
It's a technique where they take Peter Levine's
work, and there was another doctor who wrote
the book that the body remembers to help me learn
the skills of actually being able to keep my
consciousness in my body. But the body is key.
I really don't believe we can heal or be whole
unless we fully occupy our bodies. So that is
one of the biggest things that might take away
after dying, and I'm not sure I would have done
it. Unless I died because I was so sure that
if I Felt in my body that it would kill me because
of all the pain that was stuck there from my
trauma All right, and we'll come back to talking
more about healing when we're done talking about
the NDE a couple of things that stood out to
me that you mentioned and people that listen
to this podcast know we talk about whatever happened
we're not going to say oh this doesn't jive with
that religion or those that theology or something
else we're just going to talk about it and please
be open -minded everybody okay you talked about
god being inside of you you were one with god
explain that because most people think Hey that
that can't happen because that being is, you
know clear over here and clear up here and go
ahead I have been spiritual since early on but
a lot of my spiritual nature came from inside
out It wasn't indoctrinated from the outside
in so that's always given me enough courage and
confidence to be able to explore that connection
from the inside Having said that without the
experience of being high in the upper atmosphere
the light and love that was Welcoming me home
and was all around me was I was one with it There
was no separation and I have studied the mystical
traditions of many of the world's religions And
I don't think that's in my awareness and experience
That is similar to when you talk about the mystical
experiences. There's just no doubt. Once we experienced
that, I remember afterwards I was at a social
event and I was talking to a man and he was older
and he was talking about potentially dying. And
I explained to him, I said, well, you know, I
liked it up there. You know, I liked being out
of my body. I liked the oneness. And I said that
how I've experienced it, he says, well, that
doesn't ring true to me. And I said, well, it
was my experience. He says, OK. And actually,
you could see that his mind that had been trained
spiritually or through religion was kind of blocking
it. But at another level, he accepted that. And
I think that in a lot of the spiritual traditions,
they teach us that that fearing death is a major
part of being able to live well. And I understand
that now because Well, during COVID, I like everyone
else. I was scared, and I'm like, what if I die?
And I'm like, well, you did die, and you liked
it. So that shouldn't be a big fear. But I think
that once we can live and know that a body isn't
the end, I am positive that when we are in a
higher consciousness and when we leave our bodies
and that we feel that light and love outside
of us, it is inside of us. So that is something
I know I am sure about based on my experience.
And I love how you explained when that person
who was having a hard time with your experience,
you weren't trying to change his beliefs. You
were just saying, well, this is what happened
to me, right? It's very matter of fact. You can
choose to believe this or not believe this. It
doesn't matter. This is my personal experience.
Okay, next. One of the very first things you
said, and correct me if I'm off just a little
bit. You said something like, I felt like a four
year old going home to heavenly parents. Please
explain that more. Literally, I felt that part
of me. And of course, that's the time in my life
before I had, you know, had a lot of the abuse.
So I think I must go back to that, to where I
felt that freedom of the child. As I am going
up, I am a free, I'm just free in that childhood
exuberance. And I am literally. I had a feeling
even though I didn't have a body, there was a
part of me that was like running. I don't know
if you remember, I really loved my grandparents
and we lived in rural Montana. And so they didn't
visit often. And when they would come, I would
sometimes sit by the road and I couldn't wait
to see them. And this was like the times waiting
for my grandparents who I love to come visit
times a million. The experience of wanting to
just go to that being, that consciousness. and
I'll use the word God, but I think people have
many names for this sense of oneness and going
towards it because it is the greatest sense of
love that we can experience. And I had no, the
parts of me and the human consciousness that
would make me shrink back or think I wasn't worthy
and that level going up, up, up, there was none
of that in me. I was a child, a four -year -old,
so happy, fully accepting. the love and light
that was calling me to it. It was like a coming
together. The other way I can explain it, which
is so hard to find words to explain it because
it's out of this world, so to have the container
of words is hard, but it's the feeling of being
home at the greatest extent possible of what
we experience in the human form. You also used
the term spiritual advisor. Was that the God
that you're talking about, or was that some sort
of different being? Different being, and in my
sense, it's still part of God. What I now, from
experiencing that, I believe that God created
all of us. We all have a divine spark, a divine
geometry, our identity that is created by Him.
At that level, it's our gift, an expression of
God. And so, my spiritual advisor was also part
of God, but he had his divine expression of that,
and I knew that person. I don't know how I knew
him, but I knew him, and I loved him, and I really
wanted to see him. But I also knew that I wasn't
done, and I was aware that if I got too far away
from my body, since I had so much longing that
I had had my whole life to go back home to God,
that the further I got, the harder it would be
for me to come back. So I willingly immediately
stopped the process and asked, and I knew that
it wasn't up to me, that it was out of my hands
whether or not I'd get to come back. But I didn't
want to get too far away because I think the
further I got away, the more likely I would be,
well, I don't really want to go back. Was there
anything else that you can remember? Did you
actually see things? Did you feel most of this?
What else did you experience? Besides the white
and gold shimmery light and the sense that I
was walking in the higher atmosphere in that
realm, I did not see much. And I also didn't
want to see much because again, I was very aware,
even though part of me is already gone. It's
like when you, I'm a horse person and when you
jump a horse, you really want to throw, you want
to go over the jump with your consciousness before
the horse does to help them make it. So part
of me is already going forward, but I don't want
to get too committed. because as soon as I realized
I wasn't done, that I started doing whatever
I could internally with my consciousness and
energy to be able to halt this going up, up,
up and merging with the light, being with the
light, being able to have the ability to ask
to see if I can come back. It's like you knew
that you were going to be coming back. So you
didn't dare step too far that direction. Well,
I didn't know. It was definitely something that
I had to ask for, and it happened so fast. The
other thing that's really hard to explain is
there's no time or space. Me thinking it is simultaneous
with whatever is outside of us or whomever or
whatever. I almost think sometimes there's other
advisors up there that may also be part of this
process of deciding what's best for my life stream,
what happens to me next. It's almost like it's
all happened simultaneously. They chose the part
of me that used to think that I could make things
happen. And, you know, as a litigation attorney,
we think that we're a little bit of have an illusion
of our own power. I had none of that in this
state of consciousness. I was very aware that
something greater than me was going to decide
where I went next. OK, let's talk about the healing
process. You were very, very sick in the hospital.
Did you start healing immediately after this
NDE or was there a whole lot more medical treatment
and finally the doctors figured it out? Well
that's an interesting question. I did not start
healing right away and so I was granted the ability
to come back to my body. I was not given instantaneous
healing. The doctors never did figure out what
caused the severe inflammation. While I was there,
I did have surgery. They went inside and looked
at my lungs. They did multiple tests. I had all
types of extras coming and looking at me because
to them it was a mystery. They just could not
figure it out. When I left there, I was going
to go to a Mayo Clinic. My friend who's a naturopathic
doctor said, well, they're going to do all the
same tests and find the same answers and cost
you another couple of hundred thousand dollars.
And I'm like, well, that doesn't sound very smart.
Remember, I told God I would do whatever it took
to heal. The first thing is that I didn't sleep
much for years because I had chronic pain. I
had fibromyalgia, I had headaches, I had low
back pain and I had severe endometriosis. All
of those are severe pain conditions and they
would sometimes happen all at the same time.
I had put myself through college. even through
law school, mostly working and borrowing money.
So the idea of me not being able to work to pay
off my debt was extremely stressful. And that's
part of what helped me get so sick. And so I
have all of those conditions that are still going
on. And the first thing that I was told from
the inner, it seemed like I came back with a
stronger connection and communication with source,
with God. And my first assignment was to learn
how to sleep. And so I took regular medicine
to sleep at first. I did sleep hygiene. I did
everything practical because sleep is where our
body restores. And note that there is no, in
my belief system, in my experience, there is
no pill that can fix the inner condition, can
heal. Pills can mask pain and help us be able
to live, but they won't fix what's going on inside.
Doctors, I did stay with regular medicine, allopathic
medicine. But they pretty much said, go do those
other things that I'd come see them. And they'd
say, keep on doing what you're doing, because
they didn't know how to fix it. But they could
recognize that what I was doing was healing me.
I went to a nature path. It took herbs and different
homeopathy, different remedies. I went to a somatic
experience practitioner. I did psychology, because
a lot of what goes wrong I now know is because
of my beliefs. When those traumas happened I
decided that I would never I never wanted to
feel that way again and so I created a way of
defending myself from being hurt but that meant
that I wasn't open -hearted and I closed myself
off and I avoided all the things that help us
find wholeness which is love connection and all
that so I did all of those things but the greatest
thing that I did was when I went to an equine
gestalt coach because I love horses. And horses
are amazing creatures, and they have the ability.
Heart math has measured them, and their heart
emanates five times greater than the emanation
from a human's heart at peace. For us, when we're
healing and we need safe space and to be able
to drop, really slow our consciousness down and
go to that place where deep healing occurs, horses
can help facilitate that, even if we're not horse
people. But it took years, because here's an
example. All that pain and scar tissue was around
my heart, and that had to do with the grief.
from the troubles that I had with my mom. I loved
my mom. She had some really good traits, but
when she was drinking and not dealing with her
own pain and putting it onto me, she could be
pretty horrible. That just made me sad to be
here, to the point of despair. All of my deep
organ pain that was unhealthy was the heart and
lungs, which is grief and despair. To heal that,
I had to be able to go into that feeling of it
a little bit, like it's almost like titration,
but then to experience life differently. And
it's an ongoing part of going back and forth.
And so now I no longer have the wound. I have
the experience of, you know, going back to it
being healed and me re -experiencing life through
love and support from the people who have come
into my life. Once we decide that we want to
get whole, I found everything I needed in Bozeman.
in Montana and my little community that I live
in, that when I decided to heal, I attracted
to me all that I needed with the people, the
different modalities and everything. And I think
that's available to all of us. Isn't it all so
interesting prior to that? It sounds like you
had to put this big emotional and mental shield
around your heart to quit feeling all that pain.
And that ended up being a physical thing also.
Do we do that a lot? I think we all do it a lot.
The energy that we create to protect ourselves,
and this is in psychology, they call it defenses.
I think if you have too many defenses and they
get out of hand, psychosis, all these different
words that they have, but really what it is It's
a part of us where we decide that we are gonna
wall ourselves off, we're gonna protect ourselves.
We're not gonna be able to live from our hearts
openly and authentically because we don't feel
we're safe. And once we do that, the other thing
that's a very interesting, today most of my body
is healed. I mean, I'm 63 and a lot of people
don't think I look younger now than I did before
I died, I think. Most of my body is healed, except
I still trim my own horses and I still get stiff
because I'm older. But most of my body is pretty
much pain free, except there's one place on my
hip. And that happens to be one of the places
where I had trauma contact. And my mama also
choked me. And so I still have some places here
in the back of my neck that are unfolding. It's
still coming out of the physical form. And what
I think happens is those places are places where
I got an energy tangle that actually manifests
in the physical body. But then all of us have
our energy and what people can feel about us
extends beyond our bodies. So to heal, we have
to go through an experience or something that
allows us to let go of that, the tangle, let
it come out. And then I actually think that the
light that we have and the more we love, the
more light we bring into us. then that light
is used and in my mind I see the angels sewing
us back together in our original identity. That's
a beautiful thought. You need to tell me more
specifically what in the world is equine gestalt
therapy? Equine gestalt therapy is a process
of working with horses. Melissa Pierce went to
college and she was trained in gestalt. Gestalt
is a branch of psychology that was a takeoff
from Dr. Young. And in it, they believe that
the people are whole. Gestalt is a German word
for wholeness. She was a practitioner for many
years. She's also an expert horsewoman. And so
she would show horses, quarter horses, and different
horses. And when people would come visit her
for her gestalt therapy, she would watch how
they interacted with the horses. So she is a
pioneer, one of the original people, to put together
what we now know as a vast and ongoing horse
therapy, you know, people are aware of how much
horses help us and all the horse therapy. But
she put together gestalt with horses and I'm
trained in her program for equine gestalt therapy.
And I'm trained as a coach, not a therapist.
And as a coach, I see people as whole. I do not
diagnose what's wrong with them. I believe that
whoever comes to me have the answers inside them.
And while they're there with my horses and myself
at our retreat center in Montana. They get to
kind of go to those places where they still have
these blocks and then re -experience life differently.
And the horses and being in nature helps them
find that place where they find greater wholeness.
And people leave looking different than when
they arrived. It's looked like they had a soul
facelift. I mean, a whole being just kind of
glows. And if that's a thought resonating with
our listeners, they can find out more by going
to your website. We'll stick it in the show notes
so they can look you up and find out more about
that. Before I let you go, I want you to talk
about one last thing. I love how you mentioned
that you felt love only during your experience.
Please explain that more. And if you can, how
do we feel that way now? Oh, wow. I love that
question. In the consciousness of being out of
my body and being in that vast tube of light,
there was no other thing that existed besides
love. And to me, love is, I felt totally worthy.
I felt 100 % at home. I felt I was moving towards
it. It was bringing me in closer. There was no
doubt that I was worthy and that I was in the
presence of my father, mother. my father, mother,
God. I can't even explain it any other way. To
feel it now, I do have times where I feel a large
percentage of it. It's hard to go back to that
peak experience because I think it's hard to
bring that consciousness to earth. But I do think
it's each one of the greatest way we can serve
the earth is by bringing that consciousness into
our bodies. And the way I do it now is I remember
how it felt. Because once I remember how it felt,
the felt sense, the experience, then I can recreate
that. It's almost like a tuning fork. And my
being will go back to that vibration. Yesterday,
I was in court. I'll tell the story this way.
And I had the choice, opposing counsel, I won't
use names here, but opposing counsel was kind
of a bully. And the old me would have wanted
to kind of be pugilistic. You know, I can go
nose to nose with you. And I chose yesterday
to take the high road, to not engage at that
level, and to consciously embody light and love
and trust the process. And I can tell you that
it worked. I did win for my client. And I still
practice law. I just did not do it from the vibration
of being in the fight. I tried to have a higher
consciousness. And I believe that the way that
we change the world around us, I'm on a mission
to spark a revolution for wholeness. one person
at a time, one heart at a time. Because when
you become whole, and I live in my wholeness,
and we share that with each other, and I think
that's what Gandhi taught, that's how we change
the world around us. I lobbied for years, changing
laws and all that will not change the world to
make it a better place. We may all choose to
have, agree on policy, but first we have to be
in communication and connection with each other
from a place of wholeness. That is beautiful.
Hertha Lund, thank you so much for being with
me today. Thank you, Eric. I really enjoyed talking
to you. Thanks again for listening and sharing
this podcast. Don't forget to hit the follow
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eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until then, I wish
you everything good that you're looking for in
this life and the next.