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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.

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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.

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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my

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physical body because I was somewhere else.

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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't

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anything else to be felt.

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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.

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I'm back home again.

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Incredibly safe and felt at home.

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Welcome, welcome to RoundtripDeath everybody and to our very special guest today, Reverend

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Nigel Mumford.

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Good morning, Nigel, how are you?

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I'm very good today, thank you, very good.

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I'm alive.

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Hey, we're both alive.

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And I will tell people, you gave me permission to call, just call you Nigel.

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Yes.

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I don't want to be irreverent or disrespectful.

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Does that still hold?

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Absolutely, sir.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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Well, I appreciate it very much.

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Normally, at the beginning of our interviews, before we get into somebody's near-death

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experience, I ask a guest to tell us a little bit about themselves.

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We just like to get to know you.

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I want to do it slightly different with you.

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I want you to tell me, just take a minute or so, what is an average day like for you?

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What do you do from sun up to sun down?

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Well, on a Sunday is different than the other days of the week.

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I only work in the mornings because I'm semi-retired, medically retired.

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But basically, I listen, love and pray to people all over the world in person and on

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Zoom.

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I've been called to the healing ministry 34 years ago.

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And as a former drill instructor in Her Majesty's War on Marine Commodos, I was a green beret.

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My job was to make Roman cry.

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Now I'm a priest.

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I still make Roman cry, and women and children.

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Not intentionally, of course.

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But I found my calling, and I just love my work.

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There's nothing else I'd want to do.

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It would have been nice if it was in England, in my home country, but God has planted me

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here and we bloom where we're planted.

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So really, it's been an incredible journey.

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It still is, from wanting to be an English Bobby, failing the entrance exam three times,

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joining Her Majesty's War on Marine Commodos because I needed to prove myself, passing

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the entire green beret course in seven months' first time without failing.

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And then going to combat for a year of my life and going around the world.

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Prince Charles, I was on board ship with the now King Charles, he was my helicopter pilot.

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Lots of stories, written several books, and a life-changing moment of a woman one day

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coming into my shop saying, we've got a headache.

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And I saw my hands gone to her head and she said, what did you do?

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The pain is gone.

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So my life has been totally changed from several, well, two major near-death experiences

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and 16 very close calls with that.

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By the way, if anybody wants to reach out to you later, it's fathernigel.com.

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It'll be in the show notes.

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And there they can learn about your books and how to get ahold of you and things like

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that.

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I can't imagine you as the tough drill sergeant guy making grown men cry because you are so

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kind and so gentle.

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And it would almost be funny to see that alter ego of you.

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Looking back on that, it was an absolute act I put on that face.

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And it all was.

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I mean, it was all a big show because quite frankly, you're dealing with death and their

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possible death.

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If they didn't do combat right, if I didn't train them properly, they would die.

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Or their mates would die.

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So yeah, I was a mean, green, mean fighting machine.

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And I'm not so mean.

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And not so lean, I can tell you.

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Welcome to the club.

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Okay, let's go back to, let's see.

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Wow.

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Back when you were a Marine, this was, this isn't the NDE that we're going to talk about

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the most, but you have a couple of them.

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So let's start there.

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You had a drowning incident.

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Tell me what happened.

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Well, it was 1975.

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I'd been in the Marines for a couple of years.

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It was a Sunday morning.

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I was in Malta in the Blue Lagoon, the Blue Cross, excuse me, in Malta.

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And I had a hangover.

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I didn't have breakfast.

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I'd never been diving before.

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I rented equipment.

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The weight belt was way too heavy for me and I didn't know how to remove it.

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And I very stupidly went down to 75 feet on my first dive, which is really stupid.

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I mean, we did a little test in the shallows and just went under to make sure that the

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equipment was working.

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But then for some reason, I just followed this valley under underwater and sat on the

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sand.

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And I remember looking up thinking, how do I get here from there?

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I've seen movies of divers swimming this way and going down, but I've never really seen

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a dive go up and I didn't know how to go up.

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So I looked up and remembering, I absolutely freaked out.

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But I did too that.

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There was water in my mask that went up my nose.

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I didn't know how to clear it.

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And I choked.

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I panicked.

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And I shot up.

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After sitting in the peaceful surroundings on the sand at the bottom of this valley

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underwater, the realization of not knowing how to get from here is almost like looking

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at the ceiling today, realizing there's no way I don't know how to get to the ceiling.

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We can't get to the ceiling.

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But underwater you can.

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Not the illusion of pure, not the illusion, the pure panic that came about me realizing

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I didn't know the protocols.

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And of course, I shot straight up.

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I didn't know that I had to continue to let my air out of my lungs.

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Otherwise, I'd have an embolism or the bends.

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I knew that.

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But Eric, I remember reaching the surface and screaming a few bad words.

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I was a marine.

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I've given them up, given them up mostly as a praise, but they do slip out.

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Sometimes once a marine or was a marine.

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I come out of the water and I get pulled down under and I come out again.

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And then I'm realizing somehow I'm next to the rocks and I'm trying to claw myself out

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with all the equipment.

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I couldn't get the weight belt off.

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I was clawing my way up the rocks, which were very jagged.

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The rocks in the Mediterranean are sharp, not softened like they are here in the waves.

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Afterwards I had no skin left and all my fingers, all the skin had been ripped off.

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All my fingernails were split laterally.

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The pain was excruciating and my knees were all scraped up and I had 62, 3 quarter inch

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C.H.

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and needles in my feet as well afterwards.

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But anyway, so here am I being dragged under, dragged under.

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I couldn't get the weight belt off.

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And then I knew it was time.

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I knew it was time to die.

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But I knew I'd held my breath as long as I could.

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And I was in sheer panic, absolutely traumatized by knowing that this is it.

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And it was an extraordinary feeling because as I took in that breath.

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What I expected was totally opposite.

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It was absolute peace.

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This peace of sort of filtered into me.

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No fear, no worry, total peace.

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And when that happened, I just relaxed and obviously I assume I just sank.

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Then I saw this yellow bright yellow disc circle like a tunnel.

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I always assume when we say where it's having we look up.

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But actually it can be from any point of the 180 from one side of the globe to the other.

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We can point this way, you know, and heavens over there.

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And that's what I realized that this tube wasn't a vertical tube.

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It was actually horizontal.

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So it sucked me up into this yellow, beautiful, peaceful vision experience of absolute joy.

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And then I saw the, you know, I don't know if I realized I was supposed to see slides

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of my life.

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But that's what happened.

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I saw slides like a slide show, old fashioned slide show.

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Wonderful.

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And then gone, then lights out.

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So but I know I only got up to my waist and I was sort of hanging sideways.

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My body was here.

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My feet were hanging down.

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I could smile now, but at the time it was nothing to smile about.

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And then lights out.

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I was told later that there was a Royal Navy diving team around the corner that they came

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heard by my words of help.

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They came, called me out, resuscitated me to have any memory of that.

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Next memory I had of that incident was in the backseat of the rental car that I'd rented

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my friend Chris driving like a crazy man and vomiting copious amounts of sea water.

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Gasping in between each breath has always water came out.

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And I got to tell you, Eric, that I thought this is a real bad day because when I came

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to, we were on the wrong side of the road headed for a Maltese bus.

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When the Maltese drivers, bus drivers, I know they're being pretty bad.

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I pushed myself up having rotted lots of water, realizing, oh God, I'm going to die

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in a car crash.

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Anyway, the next thing I remember was going to the hospital.

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I remember the noise of a helicopter because they were going to send me down to the diving

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chamber to, you know, put me in one of those, what do you call them?

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Isobaric chambers.

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Thank you very much.

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Thank you.

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Yeah.

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I was in hospital for three days.

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They didn't find me down there.

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I spent three days in hospital and I was a mess.

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I really was.

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And I didn't tell anybody about the experience because I didn't think fellow Marines would

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appreciate my story.

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And I never told that story to anybody, not even to the physician, until I emigrated to

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America in 1980 and I saw a TV on NEDs, a TV show, and somebody described what I'd experienced.

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Whoa, I can talk about this.

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Now I'm not nuts.

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Well, back then, people did think you were crazy if you talked about it.

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In fact, the term near-death experience, I don't know if you know this.

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It was devised that very same year in 1975, I believe, by Dr. Raymond Moody.

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Really?

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Really?

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So there's a 50th anniversary of that coming up this year.

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That doesn't mean NDEs didn't happen before then.

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We just didn't have a name for them.

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We didn't know what to call them.

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Bibliologically, I would challenge you on that.

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And because 2 Corinthians 12-2 writes about Paul, who was stoned almost to death and he

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survived.

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And he writes, I know a man in Christ who 14 years ago was caught up to the third heaven.

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So Paul is talking in the third person.

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He says, I know a man in Christ.

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It was him.

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So he's deflecting it.

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And he says, listen to this, whether it was in body or out of body, I don't know.

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So the Bible coined the term out of body experiences, which is what NEDs are.

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NDE, excuse me.

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NDE, yeah.

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NDE, bit of dyslexia there.

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Anyway, and this is what my book was based on, knowing that Paul had had this experience

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and he was nearly killed by being stoned to death.

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Somehow he survived, but he was caught up into the third heaven, which is describing the

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highest realm where God's presence is most divine.

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And I like that.

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You know, Raymond Moody, yes, coined the phrase, NED, death experience, but this goes way back

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to even before Paul.

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I'm sure they've been going on forever.

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Most people didn't talk about him.

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Paul was gutsy enough to talk about it, and that's pretty cool.

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Heck, Lazarus.

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I mean, he, the classic NED death experience, you know.

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Come out and he comes out with his grave clothes on.

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I mean, I love that story.

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And the woman who's dead, the child who's dead.

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I mean, it's in the Bibles.

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Jarius' daughter.

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Exactly.

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Well done, sir.

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Yes, I couldn't remember her name, sir.

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I'd better take this off.

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I couldn't quote the verse.

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Don't be do that.

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I can look it up.

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I know the story, it's an awesome story because I have daughters I can feel for him, how he

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must have been feeling when that happened.

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By the way, I just have to interject this because every time it seems like on this podcast,

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if someone comes on and starts talking about Christianity or for that matter, some other

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religion, and we talk about all of it here, this is a very non-denominational and safe

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space.

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And somebody is going to say, oh, that Father Nigel, he just had a Christian agenda, blah,

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blah, blah.

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Okay, get over yourself.

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Whoever is thinking that, we're just talking about what happened to you and what happened

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to other people.

245
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And people on this show have seen Buddha and Muhammad and other things like that.

246
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:46,960
And I can't give all the reasons why these experiences are so different, but they are.

247
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And that's okay.

248
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,480
And it doesn't mean that they're not real.

249
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I vet everybody before they come on this show.

250
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,400
Did we have a pre-interview the other day?

251
00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:57,400
We sure did.

252
00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,560
Okay, that's how it works.

253
00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:05,360
I have kind of a crazy meter if I think somebody's off relying to me.

254
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,840
You haven't heard them on the show because I don't put them on.

255
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:08,840
Good, oh God.

256
00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,160
That's not a crazy meter.

257
00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,680
I want to say God vetting people because they shouldn't do that.

258
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:20,680
And having said that, having said that, Eric, I want to say that I have nothing to prove.

259
00:13:20,680 --> 00:13:22,320
I have absolutely nothing to prove.

260
00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,200
I don't need to prove anything.

261
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,960
Even this near-death experience, I didn't need to prove the Bible.

262
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:27,960
I have nothing.

263
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:28,960
I don't have an agenda.

264
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:34,640
I just think this is a privilege to tell my story so people aren't afraid of death.

265
00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:36,000
I appreciate that.

266
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,920
I have one question about this first experience of yours.

267
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:40,920
Yeah.

268
00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:45,760
I think that's how terrifying it must have been and the fact that we know now about how

269
00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:50,600
there can be a second drowning even when you're in the hospital and have been saved.

270
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,000
People can die later that night and things like that.

271
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:58,160
But you mentioned, I believe you called it sort of like a slideshow of seeing things

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00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,000
that had happened during your life.

273
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,720
And we refer to those as life reviews.

274
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:04,660
I'd love to hear more about that.

275
00:14:04,660 --> 00:14:05,660
What was that like?

276
00:14:05,660 --> 00:14:08,280
What kinds of things did you see?

277
00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:20,640
I saw vivid slides of my past, my parents picnicking on Dartmoor, in Devon, all sorts of flashes

278
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,640
of my life.

279
00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:27,360
The weird thing, Eric, was that I wasn't sure if I was supposed to think that or it

280
00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,120
was actually happening.

281
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:34,040
And for some reason, I knew that you were supposed to see that when you died.

282
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:40,080
So I can't correlate the difference of thinking, well, I'm supposed to see this, I'm dying,

283
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:41,920
I'm supposed to see flashes.

284
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:43,280
But I knew what I saw.

285
00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:47,600
Did you see good things that happened and maybe things that you regretted both?

286
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:48,840
No, all good.

287
00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:49,840
Everything was all positive.

288
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:50,840
All good.

289
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,720
Yeah, everything was all good.

290
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,400
So you probably felt no guilt or anything then?

291
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:56,400
No, none at all.

292
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:57,400
It was lovely.

293
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,240
I mean, the sad thing, the only drawback was this.

294
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,800
I used to own a picture frame business and somehow I got onto this conversation with

295
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:09,520
a woman who didn't tell me the reason why she wanted me to talk about this near-death

296
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:10,520
experience.

297
00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:14,880
And when I'd finished telling her the story, this was in Connecticut, she told her that

298
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:19,320
her sister went for a swim and didn't stop swimming.

299
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,200
She committed suicide.

300
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:27,080
And the irony of this was that she was asking me what it was like to drown without telling

301
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,320
me why and when she told me, I felt so gutted.

302
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:31,920
It was way before I was a priest.

303
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:33,200
I felt so broken.

304
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:34,960
I felt betrayed.

305
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:40,320
But what had happened to her, that it gave her great peace in knowing that actually breathing

306
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:46,720
in water, and I'm not condoning suicide by any means, but she felt comforted by what

307
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,280
had happened to me because that probably happened to her sister.

308
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,400
So how did you feel?

309
00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:53,640
Explain what you were feeling.

310
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,080
It was two parts.

311
00:15:55,080 --> 00:16:00,200
As I mentioned, the first part was raw terror of trying to get the belt off, of being dragged

312
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:01,200
under.

313
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,880
And I ripped my mask off, by the way, when I reached the surface because I didn't want

314
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:09,400
to rely on the breathing tube and I couldn't get it back as I was being pulled under.

315
00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:16,080
So totally helpless, fighting for my life, trying to stay afloat, trying to breathe,

316
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,800
raw fear, panic.

317
00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:23,360
And then being dragged under, holding my breath for as long as I possibly could, and then

318
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:24,880
knowing, okay, this is it.

319
00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,400
I don't know where the pictures came in.

320
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:33,120
I think it probably came after I took the breath, but the breath, the water.

321
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,520
But I knew without a doubt my next breath was death.

322
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:37,520
I knew that.

323
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:42,760
So I held my breath to the ultimate point when I had to breathe in, and actually again

324
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,440
what I'd breathe in was peace.

325
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:45,440
Absolute peace.

326
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:52,440
There was no fear, no worry, no anxiety, all that just drifted away, and it was okay.

327
00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:53,440
Isn't that amazing?

328
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:57,160
Yeah, I'm smiling because my soul is smiling and remembering this.

329
00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,880
I don't get to tell this story very often.

330
00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,960
It's extremely personal, but it's very real.

331
00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:07,680
Now let me just qualify this because as a Royal Marine I spent a whole year of my life

332
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:08,680
in combat.

333
00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,720
I wouldn't say where it was, but it was extremely unpleasant.

334
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,840
I saw raw man's inhumanity to man.

335
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:16,160
I saw horrific deaths.

336
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,280
I saw people shot at, blown up.

337
00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:23,840
Just dreadful experiences, apart from the fact that I was shot at three times and blown

338
00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:28,480
up five times, and also injured in the head, which bleeds very much, but that's another

339
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:29,480
story.

340
00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:36,000
So, you know, having witnessed death for a year of my life, very traumatic death, and

341
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:41,520
quite frankly spending that entire year constantly worrying when I was on patrol, either in a

342
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:46,480
vehicle on foot or guarding the base camp, constantly thinking, where is it, where's

343
00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:47,480
it going to hurt?

344
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:48,480
Where's the bullet going to hit me?

345
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:49,480
Is it going to go in my eyes?

346
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:50,480
Is it going to hit my shoulder?

347
00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:51,880
What's it going to feel like?

348
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:56,640
The bombs, I was involved in five very, very powerful bombs, one in particular, the Nestle

349
00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,880
and its milk chocolate factory, but I won't go into details.

350
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:04,280
But anyway, it was so bad it blew me off my feet, and I ended up putting my hands in my

351
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:09,040
ears and down with trousers, the major I saw, it still together because it felt like

352
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:10,040
I'd been kicked.

353
00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,200
And I couldn't hear for several hours.

354
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:13,480
It was death, totally death.

355
00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:20,120
But, you know, having spent a year of my life in raw fear, raw anxiety, constantly worrying

356
00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:26,080
what's it going to feel like, and then having this drowning experience took away all that

357
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:27,640
fear.

358
00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:34,000
And the second thing we're going to talk about later, also that qualifying, quantifying,

359
00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,160
underpinning that fear, which has gone completely.

360
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:41,680
Pain, that's another story which I'll talk about, but the fear of death has gone.

361
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:42,680
I have no fear of death.

362
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,560
And I'm living my life to the fullest.

363
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,960
Sadly, I mean, many people, you know, I talk to a lot of people every day.

364
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,160
I've talked to thousands of people.

365
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:51,840
Fear of death is up there.

366
00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,080
It really is in the human realm of nature.

367
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:58,960
And you know, that has gone with me completely.

368
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,440
Then having, as a priest, having held the hands of many people dying, wonderful deaths.

369
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,320
I've had some wonderful stories of that, if you'd like me to share that.

370
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,000
One particular story.

371
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:10,000
Let's come back to those.

372
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:11,760
I'm going to make a note here.

373
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,160
How does it change someone's life when they have no fear of death?

374
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:20,360
I can't tell anybody else, but only from my own experience, how did it change my life?

375
00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:23,240
Is to realize that this is not a dress rehearsal.

376
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:24,240
This is it.

377
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,120
This is our one chance.

378
00:19:26,120 --> 00:19:31,360
For me, the second experience I had, the joy, the two things happened of the second

379
00:19:31,360 --> 00:19:32,440
experience.

380
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,680
One was that I totally lost my sense of direction.

381
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:38,880
If it wasn't for GPS, I think I'd be in Marrakesh.

382
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:43,120
But it also gave me a brand new sense of humor.

383
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:45,640
Let's go ahead and jump to that experience.

384
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,160
So we're going to fast forward to 2009 now, correct?

385
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,080
Go ahead and tell us what happened then.

386
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:56,520
2009, I was invited by the British government, the Royal Air Force, to speak at a conference

387
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:58,560
on post-traumatic stress.

388
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,320
One of my books is called, After the Trauma of the Battle Begins.

389
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:07,400
I specialize in traumatic experiences, particularly in combat stress.

390
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:14,640
So I'd been invited to be a speaker for several hundred Royal Air Force members.

391
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:20,200
When I was there in 2009, I picked up the swine flu, unbeknownst to me, I didn't know,

392
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,640
I picked up the H1M1 virus.

393
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:28,800
So I came back to the United States on the Friday, I think it was Saturday night.

394
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,680
I couldn't stop coughing, violent coughing, just couldn't stop.

395
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:37,800
And it's during the morning, I said to my wife, I think I need to go to the hospital.

396
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,200
Men don't like to admit it, but I said there's something wrong.

397
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:47,080
So I went to the hospital, saw the on-duty doctor, the ER, who gave me a puffer, said,

398
00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:50,640
you're having adult onset asthma and sent me home.

399
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,120
An hour or two later, I used the puffer and collapsed with respiratory arrest.

400
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:57,560
My wife and my daughter were with me and I was dying in front of them.

401
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,720
They were screaming, they were terrified, I couldn't breathe.

402
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,640
Anyway, they called an ambulance, ambulance came, picked me up, rushed me back to the

403
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:05,640
hospital.

404
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,760
The same doctor who'd seen me before saw me and I shall never, ever forget his face

405
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,240
of absolute horror thinking I shouldn't have sent him home.

406
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:14,240
I remember that.

407
00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,680
In fact, I wrote him a letter, never responded.

408
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,840
So for the next 10 days I was in the hospital, they thought I had Legionnaires' disease

409
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:25,280
because I'd been in a place where the air condition was so filthy.

410
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,880
That's another story.

411
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,680
Anyway, they thought I had Legionnaires.

412
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:34,360
So I was isolated and actually they put a fan on me because I had a temperature of 104.

413
00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:37,040
So this fan was spreading the disease all around the room.

414
00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:38,040
They didn't realize it.

415
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:39,200
I don't remember them being masked.

416
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:45,040
But anyway, so for 10 days I was coughing so violently, so badly, they put me in an

417
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,200
induced coma because I hadn't slept.

418
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:52,880
And I remember saying goodbye to my wife and I knew I was, again, this time I was going

419
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:54,600
to die the second time.

420
00:21:54,600 --> 00:22:00,320
So I remember seeing her leave and remembering people behind me and having been told that

421
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,320
I was going to be in an induced coma and then lights out.

422
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:09,200
I know my wife was asked to leave before they integrated me, thank goodness.

423
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,280
And then lights out.

424
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:11,280
And that was it.

425
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:12,280
I mean, I was asleep.

426
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:13,280
Nothing.

427
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:14,280
Absolutely nothing.

428
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:18,880
Now, chronologically, I can't give the timeline because I was in a coma for three weeks.

429
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,400
My wife was with me for 72 straight days.

430
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:29,800
My body had an ice blanket on it and my blood was being dialysis chilled.

431
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:31,760
My blood was actually being chilled through dialysis.

432
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:33,120
It was that bad.

433
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:37,080
When I was in this state, there was one point where the doctor said there's nothing more

434
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,280
we can do.

435
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,280
And there's when a friend of mine stepped up and said, okay, now it's God's turn, but

436
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:43,560
I'll come back to that.

437
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,800
So Eric, I'm in a coma.

438
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:50,800
And the first extraordinary thing that I saw was a blade of grass.

439
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,920
A color in all of my visions that God gave me.

440
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,200
The color was, I can't even describe the color.

441
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,080
The first was a blade of grass, a big, great blade of grass.

442
00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,880
And I just observed that blade of grass for, seemed like ages.

443
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:09,200
So I was just looking at this, the beauty of this blade of grass, one blade of grass,

444
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,400
observing it, looking at it, enjoying it.

445
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,640
And then pulling back and seeing many blades of grass.

446
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,880
Then pulling back again and seeing three granite steps.

447
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,960
The color of that granite, you know, granite is gray and white-ish.

448
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,440
And the color was just extraordinary, these three steps.

449
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:27,440
What did that represent?

450
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,160
Perhaps the trinity, I don't know.

451
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,360
I walked up the three steps.

452
00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:35,800
I walked on this beautiful grass path where I saw three white tulips.

453
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:36,800
Perfect.

454
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:37,800
Absolutely perfectly.

455
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,560
All of them slightly different, but all perfect.

456
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:42,760
Then I walked on a bit more.

457
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,280
Oh, let me go back a show.

458
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,320
I missed that, a very important thing.

459
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:47,880
I'm lying in bed.

460
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:52,520
I realize I'm lying in bed and then I realize I'm leaving my body.

461
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,040
This is very important and I forgot that bit.

462
00:23:55,040 --> 00:24:00,400
So I felt my whole spirit leave and go up through the roof and I'm thinking, you can't

463
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:01,400
do that.

464
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:02,600
You just can't physically go through the roof.

465
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,880
There seemed to be a correlation of rising to the water level and going through the ceiling,

466
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:08,880
which I did.

467
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:09,880
And I went through the ceiling.

468
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,720
I remember trying to turn my head to say goodbye to my wife, Lin.

469
00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:18,240
And I don't know whether it was because I was intubated, who knows.

470
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,400
Anyway, I tried to say goodbye and I was panicking similar to the water.

471
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,240
Like, oh my God, I can't say goodbye.

472
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,560
And then again, that peace came upon me.

473
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,840
No pain, no despair, breathing.

474
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,000
I mean, not even aware of breathing.

475
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,720
What I saw was complete darkness.

476
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:40,560
Then I saw stars and I saw so many stars, all this light in the darkness.

477
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:46,680
Then I saw this bar about a mile long and about six miles high and it looked like a book.

478
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,960
The lights then condensed onto the front of the book.

479
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,960
And I know I was looking at the book of life.

480
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,360
It's in the Bible.

481
00:24:54,360 --> 00:24:56,680
And now I was looking at souls in heaven.

482
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,920
It was as if I looked at the first light at the top left hand corner and tried to look

483
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:05,080
underneath it to read the bibliography of that person because I knew it was a soul.

484
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:09,080
I knew each white dot was a soul, thousands on each page.

485
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,200
And it was like, you don't need to look under the dot, you just look at the light and you

486
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,440
know who that person is.

487
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:19,600
Then the bottom of the page turned up in darkness and the whole page turned and I felt the wind

488
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,800
of the page of the book of life.

489
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:29,600
I felt this beautiful calming wind cooling me down, which is obviously what I needed.

490
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,800
And then the second page and then thousands and thousands and this kept going for, I have

491
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,520
no idea, I lost all track of time.

492
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,720
But I was being introduced to the book of life and looking at people who are on the book

493
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:41,560
of life.

494
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,040
Then I saw the steps and I saw the tulips.

495
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,040
Then I saw my house in heaven.

496
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,040
It was made of glass.

497
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,800
I love to tell ladies there was no kitchen in my house.

498
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:52,440
You don't need it.

499
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,360
How did you know it was your house?

500
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:55,360
You just knew?

501
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:56,360
I just knew.

502
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:57,360
This is where I'm going to live.

503
00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:58,360
Yeah.

504
00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:02,280
I also, at some point, again, the time I didn't know, but I also saw the mansions.

505
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:09,040
I saw these beautiful Victorian ladies as they call these mansions.

506
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,240
Maybe because I thought I knew I should see that again.

507
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:12,240
I don't know.

508
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,320
But I didn't see anybody at this point.

509
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:15,680
I didn't see people.

510
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,680
Nobody was there welcoming me to heaven.

511
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:18,840
I didn't see my grandparents.

512
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,120
I didn't see anybody.

513
00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:22,520
So I saw all these beautiful houses.

514
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,960
Then I went back to my house, which was glass.

515
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,640
All the corners were made of angle iron.

516
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:30,840
Beautiful fire engine red.

517
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,560
The red was extraordinary.

518
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,520
I mean, you know, everything was glass.

519
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:35,560
The furniture was glass.

520
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:36,920
The bed was glass.

521
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,240
The floors were glass, but it was diamond shaped.

522
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,360
It wasn't built like a rectangle.

523
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:45,400
It was diamond at the bottom here and then here.

524
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,680
And it had various rooms off it.

525
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:55,000
And the amazing thing was on each floor, there was what looked like a heating vent, but you

526
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,040
flipped up the lid on it.

527
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:02,200
And you had this gold or silver, and why sometimes it was gold, sometimes it was silver.

528
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:07,000
You dropped this chalice into the water and you grabbed the water from the water, which

529
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,760
was flowing through the bottom of the house, living water.

530
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,480
You could take the chalice, take that water.

531
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,960
And if you wanted fish and chips, it tasted like fish and chips.

532
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:16,960
The water did.

533
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:17,960
Yes.

534
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,440
If you wanted a gin and tonic, you'd take it.

535
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,440
Well, no, I don't drink gin, but I don't drink any more, but I don't drink any less.

536
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:24,800
If you wanted a Guinness.

537
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,160
If you wanted a Guinness, it tasted like a Guinness too.

538
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,600
Now, it was an extraordinary experience.

539
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,240
And not that we need to eat in heaven, but it was just very satisfying.

540
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,920
It was very comforting.

541
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,600
The frightening bit, I did see sub-darkness.

542
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:45,000
I did see things involving hooks and spikes and major fish hooks and people being stuck

543
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,000
on that.

544
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,800
But I didn't write about that in my book.

545
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,000
I didn't want to focus on the horror.

546
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:57,200
But there was a time where I knew it was time and I was crawling down the valley of the

547
00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:58,200
shadow of death.

548
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:04,360
And ironically, the walls on the valley were very similar to the rocks in the scuba diving

549
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:05,360
accident.

550
00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:08,840
And I knew there was no way I could claw my way out of the valley.

551
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,680
There was a correlation between the dry and the drowning.

552
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,560
So the path was fairly wide and it was semi-cylindrical.

553
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,640
And it was smooth.

554
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:25,080
It was well-worn rock, well-worn smooth wall.

555
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,800
And I knew I was paralyzed.

556
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:28,800
I knew I couldn't walk.

557
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,920
And I knew I was using my elbows like the leopard core we do in the war marines.

558
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,520
I was using my elbows to pull myself forward because my legs didn't work.

559
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,560
And I knew that.

560
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:43,040
It was not a comfortable experience.

561
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:47,400
It was a revelation knowing that I was crawling to my death, knowing that I wasn't going to

562
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,280
come out the other side.

563
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:54,560
The comforting moments were when I looked up, I saw Jesus on the cross, his head down.

564
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,240
He didn't say anything, but the only person I saw in heaven was him.

565
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,000
And he was looking at me as I was crawling.

566
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:06,440
And his eyes, I don't know if I can do this, his eyes were looking at me and moving from

567
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,760
his left to right, looking at me and egging me on.

568
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:10,960
Keep going Nigel, keep going.

569
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,520
He didn't say it.

570
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,080
He communicated just with his eyes from the cross.

571
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:17,640
Today it stounds me.

572
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:22,280
Anyway, I came to this left turn.

573
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:27,440
It was a bit like a railroad track where there's a turn out going straight, one going to the

574
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:28,440
left.

575
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,240
And I got to the left point crawling and I stopped and it was hell.

576
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:32,680
Hell was a mockery of heaven.

577
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:33,680
It was black.

578
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:34,680
It was oozing evil.

579
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,800
There were these pillars, there were these rocks, there were these walls of pure, pure

580
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:41,760
evil.

581
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:43,840
It was terrifying.

582
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:49,640
And I paused on that journey right there and screamed, no.

583
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,800
I remember screaming that in a coma.

584
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,440
And it was as if I was invited to look and help.

585
00:29:58,440 --> 00:29:59,920
And it was beyond terrifying.

586
00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:03,640
It was far worse than drowning because I knew it was real.

587
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:10,400
And everything I saw was so real and so colorful, but this gray black mass.

588
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:11,920
I cut him into words.

589
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:17,200
Anyway, thank God, from then I jumped back to the valley and I was crawling along and

590
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,920
I came around this corner to the right and there it was, heaven.

591
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,240
It looked the same as hell, but it wasn't black, it wasn't dark, it was gold and it

592
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,280
was light, it was beautiful.

593
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:27,440
I didn't get to the gate.

594
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,080
I can't wait to see Peter when it's my turn because I'm gonna have my hands on my hips

595
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,560
and say, Peter, what the heck was that all about?

596
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,560
And that vision stopped.

597
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,280
So my book I go into far greater detail.

598
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:45,600
In writing the book, I got to the point where I had a trach and in writing the chapter on

599
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:52,600
the trach, what had happened was in the dream I had, clearly they were doing the trach,

600
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,520
I was, I didn't like male nurses.

601
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,560
I didn't want male nurses to come anywhere near me.

602
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,800
And these two male nurses grabbed my body off the gurney, threw me on what I thought

603
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:03,560
was the killing table.

604
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,720
One of the male nurses stuck his knee in my throat because I wasn't dead.

605
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:08,920
It was 10 o'clock.

606
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,800
I saw my coffin.

607
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,720
I saw, I heard a clicking of glasses.

608
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,960
I heard people, it was just about 10 o'clock and I wasn't dead.

609
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:24,240
So this guy stuck his knee in my throat and I couldn't fight at no power.

610
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,040
And I couldn't write about that because I was so traumatized because I'd forgotten about

611
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,280
it and he came back in writing the book.

612
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:35,640
But realizing what was happening was I was being shown what happened.

613
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,160
And I couldn't write for several days until they asked my wife.

614
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,760
I said, you know, I told her, I said, you know, it was 10 o'clock, I saw the clock

615
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:47,240
and she looked at me, she said, it was 10 o'clock when they did the trach.

616
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:48,760
And that absolutely blew me away.

617
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:55,000
So that point was, yeah, that was the clearing of being able to realize that actually what

618
00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,920
I felt was the pressure of my throat being cut.

619
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:02,280
The appliance, or whatever you call it, the thing, the plastic thing they put in the

620
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,240
throat and the terror of that.

621
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,520
And then I was able to write about that.

622
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:14,560
But the irony of that was later after I was upright again, probably six months later,

623
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,760
I had a friend of mine who was an FBI agent who jokingly went to grab my throat and I

624
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,120
know he broke her arm.

625
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,440
With someone who's had a trach, you don't mess with that.

626
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:24,440
It's very frightening.

627
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,480
And, you know, it was still there.

628
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,000
My marine training was still there.

629
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,000
And I always broke her arm.

630
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,600
And she looked at me like, what did you do?

631
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,480
I said, what the heck did you do?

632
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:33,880
You don't grab someone's throat.

633
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:35,840
Who's had a trach?

634
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,520
So when I look back on it, it can be amusing.

635
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:47,960
So anyway, while on this journey of death and the very vivid experience of what I saw,

636
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,960
and again, I don't have to prove anything to anybody.

637
00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,320
You can believe it or not, but I know what I saw.

638
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:54,200
But I know it's all biblical.

639
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:59,400
And to discuss that with two of the bishops, two of the three bishops, who actually give

640
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:00,400
me last rites.

641
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,720
So I had the last rites for three bishops, knowing that I was going to die.

642
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:11,320
One nurse on Friday went home and said goodbye to me, because she knew I wouldn't be there

643
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:12,760
Monday.

644
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:17,960
When she came back for a Monday shift, she told my wife this, she was astonished to

645
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:18,960
see me alive.

646
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,680
She was still there because I shouldn't have been.

647
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,600
I lost 68 pounds.

648
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:24,600
I had a trach.

649
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:28,200
I had both lungs punctured to let the water out of the lungs.

650
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:33,000
I had sepsis, myrsa, 100% oxygen for three weeks.

651
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,960
My lungs are still damaged from that.

652
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:36,880
I had total organ failure.

653
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,760
My liver, kidneys and everything, all major organs have stopped working.

654
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:41,760
I was out of here.

655
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:46,560
And somehow, like Lazarus, I was brought back to life.

656
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,520
So that's not the end of it.

657
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,520
So when I came to, after three weeks, I came to, and I saw my wife.

658
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:53,520
I thought, who's that?

659
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:54,840
Who are you?

660
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:55,840
My daughter walked into it.

661
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,040
I recognized her, and I didn't recognize my wife.

662
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,240
Looking back on it, I could have had such fun with it.

663
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:05,280
Margie, they were having fun with me because they were going to decorate the room for

664
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,040
Christmas, thinking I was going to be in there for a few days and I wake up and, oh, it's

665
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:10,360
Christmas already.

666
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:11,960
And then Christmas was almost there.

667
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,320
So they decorated my room for my birthday, messing with me.

668
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:20,000
But when I came to, it wasn't decorated anymore because they realized, this is not funny.

669
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:21,000
He's dying.

670
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:27,560
So Eric, when I came to, I remember seeing her, and then I passed out for, I think,

671
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:28,560
another two days.

672
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:35,240
When I came to the second time, I saw two white coats and about eight or nine bodies

673
00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:36,240
around these white coats.

674
00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:39,680
And because I've been in heaven, I thought they were angels, you know?

675
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,440
I'm thinking, okay, and then I realized that they were doctors.

676
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,440
Then I realized that the people without white coats were students, and they were looking

677
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:49,440
at me.

678
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,720
And I could hear them talking, mumbling, and I wasn't making sense.

679
00:34:52,720 --> 00:34:54,800
And then I said, doctor, do you remember E.F.

680
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:55,800
Hutton?

681
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,240
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

682
00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:01,440
So when E.F. Hutton talks, everybody pays attention.

683
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:04,480
So I said, doctor, they all pulled in.

684
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:05,720
Yeah, and he listens.

685
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:06,720
Yeah, they all listen.

686
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:07,720
And they all pay attention.

687
00:35:07,720 --> 00:35:09,800
They're looking at me, but why are they talking?

688
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,560
He's been in the coming three, and he's talking.

689
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,360
What's he going to say?

690
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,920
And I heard myself say, I didn't think it, Eric.

691
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,560
I heard myself say, doctor, will I be able to play the piano again?

692
00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,200
And very seriously, he said, oh, yes, no problems.

693
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:24,200
You'll be fine.

694
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:25,600
And then I said, well, that was funny.

695
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,520
I couldn't play it before I was sick.

696
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:31,520
Good one.

697
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:32,520
Yeah, they died.

698
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:33,520
They died.

699
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,480
They were crying real after.

700
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,240
And then I passed out again.

701
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:39,800
The weird thing was, I heard myself say it.

702
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:41,880
I didn't think it.

703
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:46,800
You know, when we speak, well, maybe I'm not thinking now, but I'm more obviously, because

704
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,200
I think I hope I'm making sense.

705
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:53,640
But when I said that, I knew that I was okay, and they did too.

706
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:54,640
It was a big relief.

707
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:55,640
He's not nuts.

708
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,240
He hasn't suffered any brain damage, but he's still got a sense of humor.

709
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:00,240
Well, it was wrong.

710
00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:07,000
He was God gave me a new sense of humor to know that, you know, to have joy, to enjoy

711
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,640
this life.

712
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:10,600
The greatest medicine is laughter.

713
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:11,720
Laughter is the greatest medicine.

714
00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:16,080
And, you know, since then, I have to be very careful, particularly when the bishop's around

715
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,080
to tell my humor.

716
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,200
Well, I agree with you about joy and laughter.

717
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:22,200
They go hand in hand.

718
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:23,880
They're the greatest medicine.

719
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,120
I have a truckload of questions.

720
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,960
I didn't want to interrupt you as we were going.

721
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,840
These are in no apparent order, but one that really jumps out to me.

722
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:39,880
I've interviewed quite a few people who have seen Jesus during their NDE.

723
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,720
None of them have seen him on the cross.

724
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:48,440
Why do you think, and I know you have to speculate, but why do you think that's how you saw him?

725
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,280
Nobody's asking that question.

726
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:59,240
I think, well, years later, I was speaking in north or south Carolina in a very large

727
00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:01,160
church about 500 people.

728
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:07,400
And before the service, before my talk, well, it was a series of talks, before the program

729
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,120
began, it was a weekend program.

730
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,200
I got on my knees and I closed my eyes.

731
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,760
And I again saw Jesus on the cross.

732
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:15,760
And you know what?

733
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:16,760
I've never connected these two together.

734
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:17,760
Thank you.

735
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:18,760
Never thought of that.

736
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,000
So I closed my eyes and I see Jesus hanging on the cross.

737
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:29,920
So I look at Jesus and he says, pick up that ladder and put it up against me.

738
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,320
I want to talk to you.

739
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:38,760
So I said, the guards, the Roman soldiers will stop me.

740
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:40,320
They said, no, they want a tea break.

741
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:41,320
I thought, tea break?

742
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:42,320
Tea wasn't invented.

743
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:47,800
I mean, this is the sense of humor in it, you know, that's still after.

744
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,480
And then he said, climb up the ladder, which I did.

745
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:52,480
Leaning against the cross.

746
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,560
There was blood, there were flies, there was extra mint.

747
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:57,920
It was nasty.

748
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:03,240
And I got up to him and he said, I want you to use your shoulder under my shoulder.

749
00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:04,240
I'm dry.

750
00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:05,240
I'm suffocating.

751
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:06,800
I need to talk to you.

752
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,600
So I put my shoulder under his, I lifted him up.

753
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,480
His face is right here.

754
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:14,880
And then he said, I want you to see what I see.

755
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,120
And then the vision stopped.

756
00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:19,560
And I want to show you, I want to show you this picture.

757
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:24,320
It was painted by a friend of mine who, when I told her the story, that's what it looked

758
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:25,840
like.

759
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,120
And it was like the last breath of Christ on the cross.

760
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,600
You could see the air coming out of it.

761
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,320
And there was one bit of red, one bit of color on its forehead.

762
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:38,160
And that's like what I saw in this vision before giving this talk.

763
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:39,600
And that was it.

764
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,240
So for those that are listening to the Audio Only podcast, which is the majority of our

765
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:46,920
stories, explain the picture.

766
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,520
It's a painting of Christ on the cross.

767
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,200
His hair, you can see the crown of thorns.

768
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:54,680
His hair is out.

769
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,320
You can see his face downcast.

770
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:57,640
His eyes are closed.

771
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,840
You can see the air coming out of his mouth.

772
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:00,840
His last breath.

773
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:01,840
There's no color.

774
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:02,840
It's almost like a silhouette.

775
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:03,840
Yeah.

776
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:04,840
Yeah, it is.

777
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:05,840
It is a silhouette.

778
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:10,800
There's one bit of color above his forehead, one drop of blood.

779
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:15,200
And this was painted for me by this woman who read this story.

780
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,080
Yeah, I was going to say I've never seen that painting.

781
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:19,080
It's beautiful.

782
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,280
No, you wouldn't have seen it because this is the vision.

783
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:22,280
Yeah.

784
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:23,280
Yeah, it's incredible.

785
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:24,280
And it really says a lot.

786
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:25,280
Doesn't it?

787
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:26,280
And that's the original, by the way.

788
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:31,200
So, ha, I mean, she captured what I saw lifting up Christ.

789
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:32,280
I want you to see what I see.

790
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:39,520
So what I thought that meant was I want you to look at the view from the cross.

791
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:44,440
Now, in all the paintings we see, see of Jesus on the cross, it's on the front, right?

792
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,880
Have you ever seen a painting from the view of Christ from behind the cross?

793
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,920
No, we call that a POV.

794
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:51,920
His point of view.

795
00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:52,920
Yes, exactly.

796
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:54,080
Yes, his point of view.

797
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:55,080
Exactly.

798
00:39:55,080 --> 00:40:02,440
So, his point of view was he was outside the city, as it says, the Green Hill far away.

799
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,200
And I thought he meant he wanted me to see the topography, the geography.

800
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,920
And a few people stand his mother and his brothers standing below him, you know.

801
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:11,920
That's what I thought.

802
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:12,920
And that was the end of the vision.

803
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:16,680
So, I go downstairs, a little nervous as I always am before talking.

804
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:22,160
And I go and they do happy clapping music, blah, blah, you know, all that lovely stuff.

805
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,200
And then I'm introduced and then I get up and I wasn't planning on saying this, but

806
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,880
I heard myself say, I just had a vision and I told him the vision, told him what I just

807
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,320
told you.

808
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,920
And then I realized what he meant.

809
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:34,920
I want you to see what I see.

810
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,640
It wasn't the view of the cross.

811
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,440
It's these 500 people who are attending.

812
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:47,360
I want you to see the pain, the sorrow, the grief, the despair, the worry, the anxiety,

813
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:48,720
the fear.

814
00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:55,200
And I looked at everybody individually, knowing that Christ wanted me to see their pain.

815
00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:02,400
So having seen Jesus on the cross in the near death, in my experience of the coma, but now

816
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:07,480
I was seeing Him for real, but then I realized, you know what, I'd never put those two together

817
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,920
until now, all these years later.

818
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:11,920
It's extraordinary.

819
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:12,920
Thank you.

820
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,280
You're very welcome.

821
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:16,720
I have a ton of other questions.

822
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:19,120
We're going to run out of time before we get to that.

823
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,360
But so I'm going to go kind of quickly through a few of them.

824
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:27,680
I think it's fascinating when people tell me about the colors that they saw there.

825
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,040
How else would you describe the colors?

826
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:34,120
You mentioned grass, granite, things like that.

827
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,320
Did they feel, were they just brighter colors than you normally see here?

828
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,000
How would you explain them?

829
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,920
Far brighter, far more real.

830
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,720
I mean, just the fact that I looked at one blade of grass for ages, you don't look at

831
00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:49,480
one blade of grass when you look at the field.

832
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,320
You look at the entire field, collective.

833
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:59,240
It was as if God was showing me what I'd been missing in the natural.

834
00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:04,600
And for me, that blade of grass is also being translated to being a person, to pay attention

835
00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:07,400
to that person or that one blade of grass.

836
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:08,600
But can I describe why?

837
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:09,600
I have no idea.

838
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:10,600
I don't know.

839
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:15,120
I mean, one could say, was it all medically induced by the drugs they gave me to knock

840
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:16,120
me out?

841
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:17,120
I don't know.

842
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:22,120
But everything I had was all biblical and all Christ-centered, everything on it.

843
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:26,360
And that's where the bishops, in debriefing, they were amazed at what I had to say as

844
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:27,360
I was.

845
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:28,360
Yeah.

846
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,000
I'm glad they accepted it okay.

847
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,360
Yeah, oh yeah.

848
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:36,880
Because I've talked to a lot of people that went to their clergy after their experience

849
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:42,960
and were told negative things, like that's of the devil or something like that.

850
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:44,120
That's very unfortunate.

851
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:47,440
Can I apologize on behalf of the clergy who don't know?

852
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:51,760
I've been in the healing ministry, I've been praying for people for 34 years.

853
00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:56,800
And sadly, the Bible, Jesus said, preach the kingdom, heal the sick.

854
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,400
And I often ask clergy, are you preaching the kingdom?

855
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:00,400
Yes.

856
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:01,400
Are you healing the sick?

857
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:02,400
No.

858
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:03,400
Why not?

859
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,200
Sadly, this is not taught in seminary.

860
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:11,840
Sadly, this POV is not taught, is not telling the line.

861
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:16,040
But it is in the Bible when Paul says, I know a man who was caught up to the Third Heaven,

862
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:21,480
whether in body or out of body, that's not taught in seminary because the view is freaky.

863
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:26,080
So I want to take a moment to apologize on behalf of the church, on behalf of clergy

864
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,720
who've rejected you for your very real experience.

865
00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:32,120
I know we can only tell people we trust these stories.

866
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,840
And here am I, you know, this is 2009.

867
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:39,520
This is, I wasn't good at math, this is several years later as I'm telling the story and writing

868
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:40,680
this book.

869
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,960
But again, it's my story and I know what I saw.

870
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:50,520
But the goal, no, solid goal, my personal point of view is the fact that I would love

871
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:52,720
to see people have no fear of death anymore.

872
00:43:52,720 --> 00:43:57,480
Because we don't need to be overridden by that in our daily life.

873
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,920
We don't need to think, oh God, I'm going to be in a car crash today.

874
00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:02,320
Oh God, am I going to make it to the end of the day?

875
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:05,720
Is this sickness, is this disease going to kill me?

876
00:44:05,720 --> 00:44:09,000
Living in fear, that's not the goal of life.

877
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:12,040
We are to love God, love our neighbors as ourselves and to enjoy life.

878
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:13,040
So I'm preaching.

879
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:14,040
I apologize.

880
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:19,680
Well, and the love and the joy that you're talking about is an opposite emotion to fear.

881
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:20,680
Yeah, absolutely.

882
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:25,440
So if we can get rid of that fear, we can better experience the joy.

883
00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:26,440
Thank you.

884
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:27,680
Yeah, you should be ordained yourself.

885
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:28,680
You got it.

886
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,920
You got that sort of thought about it, to be kind.

887
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,760
Hear me with another question.

888
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,240
The description of your house was really cool.

889
00:44:38,240 --> 00:44:41,880
You also mentioned the term mansions.

890
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:47,840
And in the Bible, if I remember right, Jesus talks about mansions and I go to prepare a

891
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,440
place for you.

892
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:52,400
Can you put that all together for me from what you learned there?

893
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:53,400
Absolutely.

894
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,600
In my father's house, there are many mansions and I go before you to prepare a place.

895
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:00,560
And I know that I was supposed to see these Victorian houses.

896
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:01,560
No people.

897
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,480
Funny enough, they were connected by trains.

898
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:04,480
I didn't see cars.

899
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,360
But they had these little trains.

900
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,720
I used to have a toy train set, you know.

901
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:10,720
So I love trains.

902
00:45:10,720 --> 00:45:11,720
So that's what I saw.

903
00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:17,800
So yeah, it was as if he really wanted me to see the reality that we do have places prepared

904
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:18,800
for us.

905
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:24,680
And as I was about to say, my house, the room I was in in the ICU for nearly three months

906
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,000
was room number one.

907
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:30,960
And when I started to come to, I was transferred from one to room eight.

908
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:36,360
And then I forgot to mention that the eight on my house was tilted sideways.

909
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:38,600
I was ultralighted on that right.

910
00:45:38,600 --> 00:45:40,080
Like a infinity.

911
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,080
Bingo.

912
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,600
That's right.

913
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,760
So the irony was I was taken from room number one, which was very public.

914
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:51,120
But no lights, my wife wanted me to get back into the circadian rhythm and to have a light

915
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,960
around me and move me into room number eight.

916
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,320
So whenever I see the infinity sign, it's like, okay, yeah, that was the number of my

917
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,080
house in heaven, infinity.

918
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,240
Okay.

919
00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:06,680
This next question people are going to think isn't very important, but I'm curious.

920
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:07,680
Okay.

921
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:12,600
You said, you talked about drinking the water and it could taste like anything that you

922
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:13,840
thought of.

923
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:20,120
You also said that we don't need to eat in heaven, but can we eat in heaven if we choose

924
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:21,320
to?

925
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,520
I can't say yes or no.

926
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,200
From what I experienced, I assume yes.

927
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,880
Does this say in the Bible anything about eating in heaven?

928
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:30,880
I have no idea.

929
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:31,880
I don't think it does.

930
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,760
No, but Jesus came back and ate after his resurrection.

931
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:36,760
He did.

932
00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:37,760
Yes.

933
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,320
But he was back in, he was out of body and now he's in body again.

934
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:41,840
But do we need to eat in heaven?

935
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:42,840
I don't think so.

936
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:46,200
I wouldn't think so either, but that's okay.

937
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,520
We don't need to know the answer to some of those kinds of things.

938
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:53,200
But we will know the answer at some point, but not to be afraid of that answer.

939
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:54,200
Another question.

940
00:46:54,200 --> 00:47:00,960
You talked about the feeling of when your spirit left your body in the hospital and

941
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:01,960
went up.

942
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,560
Do you have any memory of coming back into your body?

943
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,520
No, none whatsoever.

944
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:15,200
Again, chronologically, I know the leaving the body, the steps, the flowers, the house.

945
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,480
I know that chronologically was in order.

946
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,160
I never thought of that either.

947
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:25,400
I've never thought about it and I have no recollection at all until I open my eyes and

948
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,440
saw my wife and then realized who she was.

949
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:34,640
But then that funnier thing with the doctors, they just, why on earth would that happen

950
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,640
after three weeks?

951
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:37,640
That's true.

952
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,240
That's probably the last thing they expected to happen.

953
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:41,240
Haha.

954
00:47:41,240 --> 00:47:42,240
Yeah.

955
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:43,240
All right.

956
00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:46,440
I promised that we would come back to this and I wanted to give you an opportunity to

957
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:54,400
talk about a beautiful death experience because you, in your role, your calling, you have

958
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:59,240
the opportunity to deal with people when they're in their final hours.

959
00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:00,640
What would you like to tell us about that?

960
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:04,680
I have two, but the shortest one was a man in my church.

961
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:06,400
His father was dying.

962
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,040
He had Alzheimer's.

963
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,720
He had a pacemaker, but it was time.

964
00:48:11,720 --> 00:48:13,160
He hadn't spoken for three weeks.

965
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,480
He had said no words for three weeks.

966
00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:20,200
They turned his pacemaker off because it would fight his natural death.

967
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:25,560
When I went to see him with his son, I stood sideways leaning against the wall.

968
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:27,160
His son was to my left.

969
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:33,160
This man's body was in the fetal position with a really scrunched up face fighting.

970
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,600
And I prayed for him, I did last rites over him.

971
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:41,400
Yeah, makes me emotional thinking about it.

972
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:46,880
When I finished the prayer and blessed him, he opened his eyes and he turned and looked

973
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:51,080
at me, not his son, looked directly at me and said, thank you.

974
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:52,080
And went, bomb.

975
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,680
And I said to his son, I think he just passed.

976
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,680
And when the nurse came in and checked his pulse and he was dead.

977
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:00,680
Beautiful death.

978
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:01,680
Thank you.

979
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,560
I was not speaking for three weeks.

980
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,200
The other one is a bit longer.

981
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,680
I'd love to tell you this story if we can squeeze it in.

982
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:08,680
Go ahead.

983
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:17,320
So I was a lay chaplain for a brand new facility, a rehab facility.

984
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:18,320
So I knew the staff.

985
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:19,400
I've been there as they're building it.

986
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,440
I was there for the opening.

987
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,960
And the first week they had on the first Sunday that it had been opened, they had an imminent

988
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:30,720
death of one of the people at the facility.

989
00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:33,680
So they called and left a message on Sunday.

990
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:37,920
They called me because they couldn't find a real clergyman because I wasn't ordained

991
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:38,920
at that point.

992
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:41,920
But they knew that as a lay chaplain, they wanted me to come in.

993
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:42,920
I came in.

994
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:44,560
I went to the nurse's station, Eric.

995
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:48,480
They said, where's, I don't remember his name, it'll come to me.

996
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,520
And they said he's in the room, down the room, whatever it was.

997
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:52,520
And I went down.

998
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:53,520
I barged into the room.

999
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,680
It was full of people, probably 15 people at least.

1000
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:02,640
I went up to Harry, I went up to Harry, who was a bag of bones, who's 92 or 96.

1001
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:03,840
He was just a bag of bones.

1002
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:04,840
His skin was hanging.

1003
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:06,480
That was sad, you know.

1004
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,960
And when I walked in, I started praying in the name of Jesus.

1005
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:15,360
And when I finished praying, I thought the wife came up to me and said, you didn't ask

1006
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:16,360
what religion we are.

1007
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,400
And I thought, oh my God, you know, the guy's Jewish.

1008
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,200
And I really put my foot in it.

1009
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,440
You know, I was so embarrassed.

1010
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:27,800
And she said that two weeks before they were in hospital, and a clergy person, I don't

1011
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,840
know what denomination, walked past his bed to the next person, started praying for this

1012
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:37,320
guy, realized he was not of the same religion, slammed his prayer book or Bible together

1013
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,520
and stormed out on the rage.

1014
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:44,320
And she said, thank you that you just came in and did what you did without even thinking.

1015
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,120
Whilst this was happening, everybody left.

1016
00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,240
I was told him to his wife, lovely lady.

1017
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:50,560
I heard the death rattle.

1018
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:51,800
I knew it was time.

1019
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,480
And I said, we need to go and pray for Harry now.

1020
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,280
I stood on his right side.

1021
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,880
She stood on the left, put my hand on his forehead, held his hand, and I asked God to

1022
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:02,880
take him home.

1023
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:04,040
I said, it's time, Harry.

1024
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:05,280
It's time to go home.

1025
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:12,880
Now, his left hand, both hands, he was just literally, what, I watched his left hand go

1026
00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:14,800
up in the air.

1027
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,800
You could see light through his radius and all that.

1028
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,240
He hadn't eaten for weeks.

1029
00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:21,840
And his hand just kept going and kept going and kept going and kept going.

1030
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:22,840
And I'm looking at his hand.

1031
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:24,360
His wife was looking at his hand.

1032
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,680
I'd asked God to take him home by the hand, literally.

1033
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:28,680
And there it was.

1034
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:29,680
It was happening.

1035
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,720
And he spat up and went, there was death.

1036
00:51:33,720 --> 00:51:35,960
Beautiful death, beautiful death.

1037
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:38,640
I ministered to that family for two and a half hours afterwards.

1038
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:39,640
They were so broken.

1039
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:41,240
The guy was 92, 96.

1040
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:42,240
It's okay.

1041
00:51:42,240 --> 00:51:43,240
It's okay to die.

1042
00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:44,240
They were so broken.

1043
00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:45,240
They were wailing.

1044
00:51:45,240 --> 00:51:49,120
And when I left, his little wife, little lady, I wish I could remember her name.

1045
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:52,880
I know she came up to me and hung on to me like this, with her hands, looking up to me

1046
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:53,880
in all innocence.

1047
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:58,720
And she said, Nigel, I hope you're there when I die.

1048
00:51:58,720 --> 00:51:59,960
And what a gift that was.

1049
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:01,480
I hope you're there when I die.

1050
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,560
And I said, I probably won't be, but I know who will be.

1051
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:06,920
I watched this man go to heaven.

1052
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:08,520
And I have many other stories too.

1053
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:09,840
The combat ones are horrific.

1054
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:11,520
But this is very real.

1055
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:12,720
This is not a dress rehearsal.

1056
00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:17,200
And I hope, as sharing my prayer, my story, again, I have nothing to prove, but I want

1057
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,480
to remind you that please don't you live your life in fear.

1058
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:21,480
Don't do that.

1059
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:22,480
It's a total waste of time.

1060
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:24,400
We're going to die at some point.

1061
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:27,760
But why should we live our lives in fear?

1062
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:28,760
Thank you, Father Nigel.

1063
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:30,880
I really appreciate your time.

1064
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,280
I hope we can do this again sometime.

1065
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:34,280
I'd love to.

1066
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:35,280
I'm here.

1067
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,840
And if it can help anybody and they want to talk to me, I'm here.

1068
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:39,840
Bless you.

1069
00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:40,840
Thank you for what you do.

1070
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:42,760
I really appreciate this.

1071
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:44,200
I wish more people were doing this.

1072
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:45,200
And I bless you.

1073
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:46,200
I pray for great success.

1074
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:50,080
I pray that thousands of people will be listening to your podcast.

1075
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,480
Listen, I want to close with two words.

1076
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:53,480
It's not our man.

1077
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:54,480
That's one word.

1078
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:55,560
I want to close with two words.

1079
00:52:55,560 --> 00:52:56,560
Have fun.

1080
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:57,560
Okay.

1081
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:58,560
Enjoy your life.

1082
00:52:58,560 --> 00:52:59,560
I'll end it there.

1083
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:01,280
Enjoy your life, all right?

1084
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,200
Thank you.

1085
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:07,240
And I want to thank you so very much for listening.

1086
00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:11,880
Right now, while you're thinking of it, please hit that subscribe or follow button.

1087
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:16,620
And if you want to know when the new episodes go live, go over to roundtripdeath.com and

1088
00:53:16,620 --> 00:53:19,400
sign up for our email newsletter.

1089
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:48,920
Until then, I wish you every good thing that you're looking for in this life and the next.