1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,480 From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes. 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:13,440 They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped. 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,120 And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,320 physical body because I was somewhere else. 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:27,400 The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,400 anything else to be felt. 7 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,520 I was greeted by people I'd known in the past. 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,160 I'm back home again. 9 00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:36,640 Incredibly safe and felt at home. 10 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,280 Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody. 11 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:47,480 And I'd like to welcome our special guest today, Dr. Barbara Mack from the good state 12 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:48,760 of Washington. 13 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:50,440 How are you today? 14 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:51,000 Very good. 15 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:52,400 Thank you. 16 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:52,680 Good. 17 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,280 Well, welcome to the show. 18 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:58,360 I know you haven't shared your experience publicly before. 19 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:03,480 And I appreciate you trusting us to be able to do that here. 20 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,560 This is a non-judgmental place, so you can open up your heart, tell us what happened 21 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,720 to you and what you learned from it or all those kinds of things. 22 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:16,520 But before we do, I want our listeners to get to know you a little bit. 23 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,480 So tell us who's Barbara. 24 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:26,680 Okay, so I am a mother of four kids, a grandmother of two, a wife and a physician. 25 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:33,480 Used to be in the ER mostly, and then about 15 years ago or so. 26 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:40,480 I kind of transitioned over to more of a private practice where I really try to help people 27 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,640 find the underlying causes of their distress. 28 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:49,920 I do like bio-dentical hormones, natural things, totally outside of the insurance and 29 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:55,240 pharmaceutical, well, it's not pharmaceutical, I do prescribe drugs, but I don't take insurance 30 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,000 and it's just my own small practice. 31 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,000 Are you a DO? 32 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,000 No, I'm an MD. 33 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:03,000 Okay. 34 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:04,000 Medical doctor. 35 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,320 And I'm not sure that I understand all the differences between those things. 36 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,800 DO and an MD are pretty much the same. 37 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:15,440 They're just a lot more MD schools than their IDO schools. 38 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,600 But the default is a little bit different on the DO side. 39 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,640 They're more holistic perhaps, but really pretty much the same. 40 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:27,640 There's a natural path that's all the way a lot more holistic. 41 00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:29,200 So I'm not a natural path. 42 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,240 I kind of tend that way now. 43 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:38,600 It's very refreshing to hear from a doctor that is rooted in the causes of what's going 44 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,760 on versus just writing your prescription to take care of the symptoms. 45 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:44,280 So thank you for that. 46 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:45,280 Trying to do, yes. 47 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:47,280 That is awesome. 48 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:48,780 Okay. 49 00:02:48,780 --> 00:02:50,120 Near-death experience time. 50 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,640 You're ready to talk about this? 51 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:54,880 This was what, 10 years ago? 52 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,960 2006, so a little more than that. 53 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:00,640 You had to run in. 54 00:03:00,640 --> 00:03:02,600 I'm sorry, this is not funny. 55 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:06,640 I'm wiping the laugh off my face because this is not funny. 56 00:03:06,640 --> 00:03:12,840 It just sounds very unusual and that is that you had to run in with fire ants. 57 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:14,320 What was going on that day? 58 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:15,920 How did you find yourself there? 59 00:03:15,920 --> 00:03:19,880 My husband was stationed in North Carolina at Fort Bragg. 60 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:23,120 He was going to play golf with his teammates. 61 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,600 He's in Special Forces and they were going to play golf. 62 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:30,580 And so I went basically to be their designated driver because they were drinking. 63 00:03:30,580 --> 00:03:35,080 So at the end of the day, golfing and everything, it was a beautiful day. 64 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,080 And at the end of the day, we're all kind of rough housing a little bit and playing, 65 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:39,080 just kidding. 66 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:44,720 And I ended up falling on my back and there are a lot of fire ant hills in North Carolina 67 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,560 and those things are, they're really painful. 68 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:48,560 And I stay clear of those things. 69 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:53,160 You can usually see them because they're huge mounds of fire ant hills. 70 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:54,880 They're big and they're easy to recognize. 71 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,440 But on a golf course that's been manicured, you don't see that. 72 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:00,440 It was flat. 73 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:04,800 So I didn't know and I just ended up on my back on top of one of these hills and I suddenly 74 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:10,600 felt all this stinging all around me and especially on my neck and I got up and they were, I had 75 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,920 fire ants swarmed like hundreds or maybe thousands of them. 76 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,800 There were just so many and I just, they sting. 77 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:18,480 They really hurt when they sting. 78 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,360 And they just kind of rubbed them all off, wiped them off, brushed them off and got up 79 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:27,960 and I'm really itchy and it hurts but I'm otherwise fine. 80 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,960 So at that point we were going to drive home. 81 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:36,160 And so I started driving my husband home and to get through the base, they were playing 82 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:41,480 on the off course that is on the base in Fort Bragg and to get back to where we lived in 83 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,080 southern Pines, I had to drive through an area that's very remote. 84 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:49,360 It's a training area where people jumped in their parachutes off so there's really nothing 85 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:50,360 out there. 86 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,960 There's no convenient stores or place where you could make a phone call and no signal for 87 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:55,920 our own through the cell phones either. 88 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:01,560 Then about 18 miles of that and about halfway through that I told my husband, I don't feel 89 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:02,560 really well. 90 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:04,320 I think you better drive it. 91 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,400 He's already had a DUI, he did not want to drive and he started to say no but then he 92 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,720 looked at me and he said, oh okay. 93 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:15,200 Because I guess my face was really swollen from all the iran stains. 94 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:19,120 I was having a little trouble breathing but mostly I just didn't feel well. 95 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,960 Probably my blood pressure was dropping from the toxin. 96 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:28,360 So he took over the driving and I told him, you need to take me, I need something. 97 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,840 I knew I was not going to make it all the way home. 98 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:35,120 I knew that the venom was dropping my blood pressure and I would need something. 99 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,080 Epinephrine would have been the medication of choice but I knew that there was no way 100 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:43,480 of getting that in time but that we could drive off the base to a convenience store 101 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,480 or a gas station and I could buy some benadrym. 102 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:51,880 So I asked him to do that and he started driving that way and then we finally get to the gas 103 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:52,880 station. 104 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:57,000 My husband pulls up and he goes in and I actually don't even remember that part. 105 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,040 I vaguely remember pulling up but I don't remember much after that. 106 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,720 He's in there but the next thing I know, I'm in this place. 107 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:11,280 It's kind of like a maybe a large room and I'm sort of at the bottom of this big gray 108 00:06:11,280 --> 00:06:12,800 space. 109 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,680 Everything was kind of like misty but it was not a cold mist. 110 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:21,720 It was like a warm mist and I was comfortable but I'm sitting there and everything was just 111 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:23,320 gray and it was nothing. 112 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:24,320 I didn't have my body. 113 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:31,240 It was sort of an amorphous something and then I noticed above me there were two and 114 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,520 then three kind of beings. 115 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:38,320 And they were like me, they were sort of this amorphous substance. 116 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:45,080 They were lighter than the gray background but they were sort of just these kind of blobs. 117 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:50,720 They didn't have arms or a face or hands or anything or feet but they were beings. 118 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,880 I knew that they were beings and I also knew that they, especially one of them, it chokes 119 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,640 you up to talk about it now. 120 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,680 It didn't keep it so long after. 121 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:07,520 One of them especially was very close to being and knew me very well, knew me intimately 122 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,400 and had my best interests at heart. 123 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:14,040 I didn't feel like what some people describe as love and stuff like that. 124 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:16,800 I just felt comfortable and safe. 125 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:21,720 I understood these two or three beings above, somewhere above me, to have my best interests 126 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:22,880 at heart. 127 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:28,520 And then there appeared kind of an opening, a circular opening in the top of this area. 128 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:34,840 It wasn't really an enclosure either but it was sort of an area and I kind of had my back 129 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:40,560 to something, it wasn't a wall but it was like it didn't continue past my back. 130 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:46,000 I looked up and there was this large disc circle, a circle in this enclosure and white light 131 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,320 was coming from it, some kind of light. 132 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:54,600 And the three beings were kind of hovering near that opening but inside where I was, 133 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,800 inside the place I was. 134 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:01,720 And they were discussing my fate without words, without speaking. 135 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:07,360 I came to understand that I was going to die and I said, wordlessly, I said, I'm going 136 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,560 to die and that's okay. 137 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:14,560 And then there was a bit of a pause and then what came back from the being that was closest 138 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,000 to me was, no, it's not okay. 139 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:23,560 You have to, I don't know, I can joke about this still. 140 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,600 But the being said, you have to go back. 141 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,840 And I didn't understand why I would be okay with dying because I was never, I was not 142 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,000 suicidal, I was enjoying life. 143 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:40,240 I had four kids, they were old enough to be okay on their own, I guess, they were in their 144 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:41,960 teens and twenties. 145 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:46,680 So I guess I could have left but I was fine with going but anyway, when they told me I 146 00:08:46,680 --> 00:08:51,280 had to go, I wasn't going to die and I had to go in there. 147 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,880 They said you have to go in there and tell them what to do, which I knew meant I had 148 00:08:54,880 --> 00:09:00,040 to go get out of the car and go to the convenience store and tell them I needed Benadryl. 149 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,320 And I knew that I would have to bite and chew it because it wouldn't be the injectable kind 150 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:08,200 but biting and chewing it would get enough of the chemical and could be absorbed through 151 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:13,600 the mucus membranes in your mouth that I could get enough to probably help me with the toxin, 152 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:14,760 the venom. 153 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:15,760 So that's what I did. 154 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:20,320 I got up out of the car and I walked in and I opened the door to the store and I thought 155 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:25,640 that I told them what I had to tell them but apparently what they say I did is I just 156 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:30,880 crashed forward and took down a rack of candy with me and so then I'm on the ground. 157 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,800 So I guess I passed out but then I, once on the ground, I guess down by pressure is at 158 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,560 least getting blood going, flowing to my brain when I'm on the ground, even if my pressure 159 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:39,560 is low. 160 00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:45,160 So I was able to speak again and I said, I told them I need Benadryl and then this storekeeper 161 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,160 quickly got me a packet of Benadryl. 162 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:51,680 There were three tablets in there and I just opened it up and I chewed them all still on 163 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:56,360 the ground and then I got better and I was able to get up, walk out of there. 164 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:01,000 A little embarrassed that I'd created such a mess including I lost my control of my bladder 165 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:06,680 so I left a puddle of urine on the floor and let the poor shopkeeper to mop that up but 166 00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:11,160 I got in the car and my husband drove me home and that was pretty much the end of it. 167 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:12,640 But I kept thinking about this. 168 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:13,640 What was this? 169 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,960 What would it happen? 170 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:17,280 For years I thought about it. 171 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:22,200 I told people about it and I really couldn't figure it out and then only recently I started 172 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:28,480 watching some of these YouTube videos of the near-death experiences and I thought that's 173 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:29,480 what it is. 174 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,360 I tried many other things. 175 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,000 Meditating which was helpful but it never got me near. 176 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:41,120 I even tried LSD or psilocybin with a, you know, I hired somebody to pay this woman $700 177 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,120 to babysit me to do this even trying to do it correctly. 178 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,440 But I didn't get anywhere like this with that experience. 179 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,080 It was interesting but nothing, it was not the same. 180 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:57,600 I've had people tell me that they've tried mushrooms, they've tried ketamine, other things 181 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:02,040 like that to reproduce what happened to them and it never works. 182 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:07,000 Yeah, especially those that feel the intense love on the other side. 183 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:12,280 I'm so sorry you missed that part that you didn't really get that experience but so many 184 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:18,200 people do, that's part of what just can't be recreated when people hope to be able to 185 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,840 recreate it some other way. 186 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:26,920 Which is also why when people say, well, gee, I want one of those cool NDEs for myself, 187 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:27,920 too. 188 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:33,560 No, you can't, you may not come back for one thing and trying to do it with drugs just 189 00:11:33,560 --> 00:11:34,920 usually doesn't work. 190 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:36,840 So, well, not usually. 191 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:38,480 I've never heard of it working. 192 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:39,480 It doesn't work. 193 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:40,560 So don't try. 194 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:47,160 I definitely would not recommend anybody attempting this but I still find it reassuring. 195 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:51,640 After listening to other people's stories and I think we need to get these stories out, 196 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,920 we need to tell people about these things because I'm sure there's many, many others 197 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:01,720 that have not been told and I think now it's kind of safe for people to talk about them. 198 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:07,320 I think maybe even 10 or 15 years ago talking about this, Mike, had you labeled as crazy 199 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:11,880 or churches would not agree, would not go along with this because some of this might 200 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:18,960 contradict the teachings of some religious organizations who might be well-meaning but 201 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,920 maybe they don't want to hear this stuff. 202 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:23,800 You're right about all of that. 203 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:25,400 And luckily it's changing. 204 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:31,240 I've met with so many people that had experience, especially in maybe the 70s and 80s, okay, 205 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:32,920 long before you did. 206 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:38,320 And they told a doctor or a nurse or some other professional and they were like, don't 207 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:39,320 talk about that. 208 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,800 We're going to have to take you up to the psych ward. 209 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:48,280 And so they bottled it up all these years but it is safe to talk about now in most cases. 210 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:54,040 And so I'm glad that you're able to do that and you don't have to fear, gee, I'm a doctor. 211 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,880 Is this going to ruin my credibility to talk about this? 212 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:02,000 I'm glad we're at a place where you can just open up about it now because 20 years ago 213 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:03,000 you couldn't. 214 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:04,480 Yes, I can see that. 215 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,960 And probably these things have been occurring a lot more than we know and I think people 216 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,320 need to understand because the message is wonderful. 217 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:17,080 And I didn't get the full experience that many other people got and I don't regret that 218 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,960 because that might have just brought me closer to death and I'm glad to be alive. 219 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,040 But I no longer fear death. 220 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:28,920 And that's always one of my questions is, what level of fear of death do you have? 221 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:30,680 I used to be afraid of death. 222 00:13:30,680 --> 00:13:32,400 I used to scare me a lot. 223 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:38,640 I was brought up Catholic but I'd become more or less agnostic at that point and I was mostly 224 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,040 concerned that there wouldn't be an afterlife and this was it. 225 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:46,560 And so it's really encouraging to me to hear that not only is there an afterlife, there 226 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:52,000 absolutely is an afterlife, not only that but it's encouraging that it's a good thing. 227 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,000 It's beautiful. 228 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,320 It was comfortable for me. 229 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,400 It wasn't beautiful, it wasn't fantastic. 230 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,720 I didn't feel all the love that I hear people talk about. 231 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:05,160 But I did feel that I did understand that the beings that were with me might have been 232 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:06,320 my guides or something. 233 00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:07,320 I don't know. 234 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,200 But those beings did love me and they knew me. 235 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:17,560 And from my medical mind, I tried to rationalize it as maybe this part of my brain was talking 236 00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:22,480 to that part of my brain and I really tried to come up with a story that would fit a medical 237 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:23,480 model for it. 238 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:24,480 I really did. 239 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:30,720 But I didn't and it wasn't until I came across a near death experience and I thought, wait 240 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:34,840 a second, I listened to several of them and then I realized that's the same thing. 241 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:40,080 And then the more I listened to, the more consistencies I heard from people's stories. 242 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,440 I mean, not everybody's story is consistent but there are a number of things that are 243 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:49,000 consistent in each and everyone's story or in many stories that aligned with what I had 244 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,000 been through. 245 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:56,400 It was really, really positive and encouraging and makes me feel happy because I know that 246 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:57,880 experience was real. 247 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:58,880 It was very real. 248 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:05,760 It's not something I imagined because even today it is so much, I don't have to think 249 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,520 back and try to remember it. 250 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:08,920 It's as though it happened yesterday. 251 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:14,280 I still get choked up when I think about parts of it, even as brief as mine was. 252 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:15,720 Well I appreciate that. 253 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,000 It's interesting that, well, a couple of things. 254 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:24,680 One is everybody's experience is different, although there are commonalities. 255 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:30,240 And some people feel like, hey, I really saw heaven. 256 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:36,560 And these are sometimes people that were clinically dead for a few minutes and other 257 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,920 people just have sort of a toe dipped in. 258 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,600 That's sort of like what yours was. 259 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:45,760 Maybe there wasn't time. 260 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:50,600 Maybe there wasn't the depth of the experience for you to be quite that immersed as some 261 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:52,200 other people are. 262 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,920 But it's amazing that even dipping your toe in can be so profound for you, isn't it? 263 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:58,360 It was still very profound. 264 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:03,120 It's still something I thought about constantly. 265 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:04,800 It never left my mind. 266 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:10,000 I was thinking about it, trying to learn about it and trying to figure out what was that. 267 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:15,520 It's recently that I'm finding these stories, they align with what I went through. 268 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:21,080 Well I hope that's been helpful for you to comprehend what you went through, maybe cycle 269 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,480 it through your brain and understand it a little bit better. 270 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:32,120 Tell me, in your medical training, was there any talk of near-death experiences or out-of-body 271 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,000 or anything like that at all? 272 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,000 No. 273 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:41,160 I mean, I had heard out-of-body experiences, but I never did we have any kind of training 274 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:42,520 on that. 275 00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:48,960 Maybe they are now, I graduated in 1986 from medical school, but maybe now there are. 276 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:54,280 Well some are, but I don't know if it's regular med school training or something beyond that. 277 00:16:54,280 --> 00:17:03,280 I know that IANS, I was at their annual conference not too long ago, and they had specific presentations 278 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:10,240 for medical people and they were able to get a sign off as X amount of hours of training. 279 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,560 Yeah, there were doctors and nurses and other people there getting some of that training 280 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:21,800 and being able to count it as, I don't know, how many hours do you need every year of training? 281 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,680 There's no difficulty in reaching them, but I would love to do that. 282 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,120 Training just for the experience, not too much for the credit. 283 00:17:27,120 --> 00:17:30,040 Okay, we'll see you there next year, you can give both. 284 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,040 Okay? 285 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:32,640 Yeah, I'll take the credit. 286 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,200 I'd love to hear it, I'd love to. 287 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,400 So there will be another one coming up? 288 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:40,320 Every year it's usually just before Labor Day. 289 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:46,960 This most recent one was down in Phoenix before that Washington and Salt Lake City and next 290 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:48,760 year is in Chicago. 291 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,880 Now I don't work for IANS, I don't get paid by IANS or anything else, it's just a really 292 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:59,040 good nonprofit organization where you can spend time meeting with other people that 293 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:03,720 have had experiences like yours and that can be very helpful, very therapeutic. 294 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:10,160 Also, there are IANS chapters all over the country and in a lot of other countries too. 295 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,640 So if you feel like it would be helpful for you, I-A-N-D-S. 296 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,040 I-A-N-D-S, okay. 297 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:23,160 DS.org, it stands for International Association of Near Death Studies. 298 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:24,160 Oh, cool. 299 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,640 Yeah, I'd love to read some studies or find out more about it. 300 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,960 It can be helpful because when people come back from these experiences, we don't know 301 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,840 how to process them and that's normal and that's okay. 302 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,240 Let me ask you a couple of questions about some of the things that you went through and 303 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,360 you gave a good description by the way. 304 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:47,040 The three beings, you weren't able to explain what they looked like. 305 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,080 Could you get into that anymore? 306 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:54,720 I think you've called them like blobs, were they light, dark, colorful? 307 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,920 They had no shape really. 308 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,560 They had no features, no faces, no arms, legs, no-and neither did I. 309 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,280 I was just, I was one of them also. 310 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:10,840 I kind of experienced them as having more light than the background light, than the background 311 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:12,800 fog or mist. 312 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:16,560 I'm in Washington State where we have fog and mist and drizzle all the time. 313 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:17,760 It's not like that. 314 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:23,160 It was just sort of these, everything was gray, but it was warm and comfortable gray 315 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:27,320 and they were sort of, they were more, they were lighter. 316 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:32,960 They were just sort of an oval kind of blob that even kind of changed. 317 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,600 It wasn't, its outline wasn't the same all the time. 318 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,440 They got smaller or bigger. 319 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,400 They had really no shape, amorphous really. 320 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,160 So I guess that they were just a made of energy. 321 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:49,080 I wanted to be closer to them, especially the one, why do I get so choked up every time 322 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:50,840 I think of that one? 323 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,600 I guess maybe now I'm saying, I'm using the pronoun heat, so maybe it's a male thing, 324 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,640 but I don't know. 325 00:19:56,640 --> 00:20:03,360 But it seemed closer to me and it seemed to, you know, it seemed to know me very well. 326 00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:05,080 Just a brief interruption. 327 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:09,760 This month we're asking you, our favorite listener to support the show. 328 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:15,160 It's definitely a labor of love for Will and me, but it takes a ton of time and money and 329 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,840 we need donations to keep things going. 330 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:18,840 It's easy. 331 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:23,240 Go on over to roundtripdeath.com, click on the little donation button in the upper right 332 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:24,600 hand corner. 333 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,320 You can show your support for the podcast and help us move forward. 334 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:29,560 We appreciate it. 335 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,720 Merry Christmas and thank you, thank you. 336 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,640 Now back to the guest. 337 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:41,680 And it cared for me or had love for me, although I didn't experience the overwhelming love 338 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:42,680 that I've heard described. 339 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,960 I just knew that this, that I could trust this being. 340 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,120 Whenever it said I would do. 341 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:53,360 I think that is so amazing that you had an experience with beings that you can't describe 342 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:55,240 how they looked. 343 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,480 They didn't talk out loud and yet communication happened. 344 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:00,480 Yes. 345 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:01,480 Yes. 346 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:02,760 How do you explain that? 347 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,200 I think about that a lot. 348 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,880 And this morning when I was running and I had my headphones on, I was listening to a version 349 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,200 of Simon and Garfunkel's Silence. 350 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,200 Sounds of silence. 351 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,200 Silence. 352 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,880 I've heard that song a zillion times before. 353 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:17,880 Run to it. 354 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,280 I've listened, you know, everyone's heard that song since the seventies, I guess, when 355 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:21,880 it first came out. 356 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,320 And I was listening to a different rendition of it. 357 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:30,560 And then the words, um, yeah, hello, darkness, my old friend, that, even the very beginning, 358 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:35,800 it's like I was in this dark gray place, but it was like, it was, you know, the old friend. 359 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:37,800 Go ahead and read the first verse. 360 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:38,800 Okay. 361 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,000 Hello, darkness, my old friend. 362 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:44,400 I've come to talk with you again. 363 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:49,520 Because a vision softly creeping left its seeds while I was sleeping. 364 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:56,480 And the vision that was planted in my brain still remains within the sound of silence. 365 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:02,440 So yeah, that reminds me of this experience and, and it still remains the vision, whatever 366 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,800 that vision was, even though it was really nothing I could, not much I could see. 367 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,480 I was just more of aware than using my eyes. 368 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:15,080 And then they talked further about, um, people talking without speaking, people hearing without 369 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:21,120 listening, people writing songs that voices never share. 370 00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:24,760 There was talking and listening, but no speaking. 371 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:25,960 And I wasn't using my ears. 372 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,960 It was just an under, I understood, like I understood from their talk that from what 373 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,720 they were telling me, what they were saying that I was going to die. 374 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,920 And then, then they told me differently without words. 375 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:43,520 We need to get Paul Simon on this show and see if he had an NDE and maybe that, maybe 376 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,160 that was his inspiration. 377 00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:46,160 Yeah. 378 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:51,920 And, and I wonder how much else out there is also, is also related to this and maybe 379 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,640 people, artists who made these songs, had these experiences, couldn't talk about them 380 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:59,760 in another way, but they could write songs about them. 381 00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,880 I think there's a lot. 382 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,600 And I think people have been afraid to talk about it. 383 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:10,360 If you think about, for example, Charles Dickens, what was his inspiration for the Christmas 384 00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:11,360 story? 385 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:12,360 Yes. 386 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:13,360 Yes. 387 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:19,280 The Christmas story, yeah, the Christmas past, future, and the whole message is the same. 388 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:20,800 Be good to people. 389 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,120 Just all you have to do is just love people genuinely. 390 00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:31,080 And it's, that's really, the message is so simple and that's all it is. 391 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:32,680 And it's beautiful. 392 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:37,960 And I've found since then, that's what I try to do. 393 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,440 Now I've left the emergency room and I've created my own practice where I can spend 394 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:47,920 an hour with each patient, I don't take insurance, but I could spend an hour with each patient 395 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,040 and really hear their story. 396 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,800 Because you really have to listen and you will learn much more that way. 397 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:58,560 You have to listen and allow, allow people to tell you their stories. 398 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,720 One other thing about these beings, you felt like they were communicating. 399 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:07,040 They were talking about you, about the fact that you needed to go back. 400 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,040 And you explained that any more detail? 401 00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:14,160 Yeah, first they said, or I came to understand that I was going to die and I said, where 402 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,120 at the sleep, I'm going to die and that's okay. 403 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:22,240 Then there appeared to be some more conversation among them or they were, and I didn't hear 404 00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:23,640 everything that they were saying. 405 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,880 I really wanted to be closer to them. 406 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,920 They were, they were, you know, out of my reach, not that I had arms that I couldn't 407 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:34,400 reach to, but they were, you know, they were too far from me and I wanted to get closer 408 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,160 to them, but they, they weren't allowing that. 409 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:41,440 And then, then when they told me I had to go back, then that was the end of my, of my 410 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:42,440 time with them. 411 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,920 But it seemed like they were discussing, well, no, it looks like not. 412 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,760 It's not going to, no, she can't, she can't go back. 413 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,200 She, I mean, she has to go back. 414 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,320 And it wasn't, they didn't use pronouns either. 415 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,240 They were all talking about me without using the pronoun. 416 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,400 Like they weren't talking about me in the third person. 417 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,240 It was like I was in the first person talking. 418 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:01,240 They were me. 419 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:02,240 They were part of me. 420 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,040 They knew me that well. 421 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,720 They were part of everything, but they were a part of me. 422 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,360 Hard to understand, isn't it? 423 00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:14,360 I only understood those things and I accepted them and I was fine with all that. 424 00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:17,800 So when they told me, no, you have to go back. 425 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:21,560 I was like, okay, that's what I do. 426 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,280 And so I got up to do what they told me to do. 427 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:27,400 And it's like the part that controlled my body came back to my body and controlled my 428 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,200 body to walk into the convenience store. 429 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,880 And then my pressure, I guess, dropped again and I couldn't, I wasn't told I landed on 430 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:38,160 the floor that my pressure came back up enough for me to, to manteed enough. 431 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:43,480 And you know, maybe I did die and if I hadn't, if I had been left in that car any longer, 432 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:44,480 I probably would have died. 433 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,960 You know, it was such a massive dose of venom. 434 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:53,120 I don't have an allergy to hymenoptero, which is the kind of, they're like bees. 435 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:54,120 They're related to bees. 436 00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:59,720 They sting, fire ants, you know, and have an allergy to that venom as far as I know. 437 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,760 And I've been stung since, you know, but one or two, no big deal. 438 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:08,160 But it was just the massive amount of venom that I got from that many stings that caused 439 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,440 my blood pressure to drop. 440 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,400 And probably I would have died if I hadn't done something. 441 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,840 Yeah, that's a scary thing, a really scary thing. 442 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:21,800 When we spoke previously, you mentioned something about your father visiting you after he died. 443 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,680 Would you mind telling that story too? 444 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:24,680 Sure. 445 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:25,680 Yeah. 446 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,440 So right around the pandemic, the beginning of the pandemic, my dad got sick. 447 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:36,960 It wasn't COVID, but he was in his late 80s, 89, and he was on the East Coast and there 448 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:37,960 were lockdowns. 449 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,040 And it was really hard to get him good care. 450 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,040 And I was flying back and forth. 451 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,040 It happened to him in Florida. 452 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:44,120 He lives in New York. 453 00:26:44,120 --> 00:26:49,640 I had to fly back and forth to Florida quite frequently to try and help him. 454 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:50,880 He ended up on dialysis. 455 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:52,200 There were, you know, he had heart disease. 456 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,280 He had to have heart surgery twice and a number of things. 457 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,000 And coordinating his care was just terrible. 458 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,120 And it was really, really a traumatic, you know, difficult thing for me because I'd been 459 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:06,080 very close to my dad. 460 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,880 So but he passed away. 461 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,520 And finally, and you know, after two years of that, he passed away. 462 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:20,560 And then as it was 2022, my brothers and my mother and I and my sister, the family went 463 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,560 to the Bahamas, which was his, he used to, he loved to sail. 464 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:26,440 He loved the water and his favorite place in the Bahamas. 465 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:27,440 We went there. 466 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,840 We went to El Boqui and we went there to spread his ashes. 467 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,880 And so I flew there with my husband. 468 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:39,240 And that night after I flew there, we got in our hotel, the cottage that we were renting. 469 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:44,760 And my husband went out to look at the ocean and I was alone in our little cottage and 470 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:46,560 I lay down and on the bed. 471 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:51,920 And then next thing I knew, my father was standing right next to me, standing next to 472 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,560 the bed. 473 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,040 And his, I saw him. 474 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,920 He looked to me as he did, back when he was young and healthy, like his 30s, late 30s, 475 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,720 early 40s is how I remember him. 476 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,040 He was healthy when he back when he was healthy and surfing and stuff like that. 477 00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,000 That's how he came to me. 478 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,720 And he didn't say anything to me, but I understood he wanted to see my mother. 479 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:19,800 And then I remembered that the, the, I realized the place that we were renting was the place 480 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,040 that he had, then my mother had stayed in last time when we had been in the Bahamas at 481 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:25,160 El Boqui. 482 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:30,200 And so I knew where my mother was staying at in a different cottage, a little ways down. 483 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,880 So I got up and I started walking that way so that he, for him to follow me. 484 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:36,160 And I don't know if he followed me. 485 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,480 I just, I just kind of understood that that's where I, or I believe that that's what he 486 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:41,560 wanted. 487 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,060 And so I walked down to where my mother was staying and it was after midnight. 488 00:28:45,060 --> 00:28:46,760 So I didn't wake her up or anything. 489 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:52,200 I just took my dad there or at least that's what I'm regretting. 490 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:57,200 And then one other time he came to me, it sounds kind of silly, but he kind of, he told 491 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,040 me to buy chickens. 492 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:00,280 We live in the city. 493 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,280 We have a little quarter acre in the city. 494 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:07,840 So, but we did, I told my husband and we went and bought baby chicks and started, and started 495 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,400 to receive chickens. 496 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,360 It turned out to be just a wonderful, fun blessing. 497 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:16,760 And so now we have, you know, I had chickens and in a little plot in the city here. 498 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,240 And they're really so much fun. 499 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,960 And my dad had written a story about he had chickens during the depression. 500 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,920 And it was really great having them during recent years when every grocery's got real 501 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,440 expensive and everything. 502 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,040 And we had AIDS and stuff like that. 503 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,560 But their personalities and everything was just so wonderful. 504 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:38,520 And he came to me at third time when my husband and I were laughing over the antics of the 505 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:39,520 chickens. 506 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,680 It's just kind of, it was just a light kind of fun. 507 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:49,160 I think message he was giving me, I don't, nothing, I don't know what to make of it. 508 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,600 You know, now we want to get a farm and live off career and stuff. 509 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,520 Come out and live by us. 510 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,360 That's what we're doing. 511 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:57,960 Is it up here in the mountains? 512 00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,600 We'll talk about this later. 513 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,200 Just a couple more things that I'm going to let you go. 514 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,880 One of them is in what ways to this change your life. 515 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,400 And you've mentioned it a little bit, but tell me a little bit more. 516 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:10,400 Yeah. 517 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:17,080 So I've been, I had been really pretty fearful before, you know, fearful of dying, but fearful 518 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,800 of lots of things. 519 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:20,280 And I'm not anymore. 520 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:22,160 I'm definitely not afraid of dying. 521 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:26,720 I don't want to die and I don't want to experience pain before death. 522 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:28,600 But now I'm, I'm okay. 523 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,720 I'm happy about it because I know it's not going to be a bad thing. 524 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,440 You know, I think of my, I didn't have a life for you, but I realized that everything I've 525 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,480 done in my life, I will need to answer to at some point. 526 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:48,080 And I must always think about the other people that I affect with every action with my actions. 527 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,800 It gives me a feeling of peace. 528 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:54,560 Just knowing that, that that's all I need to do is just listen, try to understand the 529 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,640 people around me and do what I can to help. 530 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,400 We're not matter how it brings me to content. 531 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,680 Whether it's a patient, a family member, a stranger on the street, every interaction 532 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,360 is an opportunity to do the right thing. 533 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,280 And I no longer feel as bad about all the bad things I've done, all the mistakes I've 534 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,200 made in my life, which have been plenty. 535 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:20,280 So I no longer feel so bad about, about that because I know that I can ask forgiveness 536 00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:22,400 and it will be okay. 537 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,800 And I just have to do better in the future. 538 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:27,480 The best I can do. 539 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,720 Can you say something to those people out there? 540 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:36,040 What are really wondering if there's an afterlife or maybe don't believe it? 541 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,600 Yeah, I was, you know, although race, Catholic, I had become agnostic. 542 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,520 I now consider myself a Christian. 543 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,520 I do go to church sometimes. 544 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:45,520 I am confident. 545 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:50,240 I know I don't have any hard evidence, but there is, there is some hard evidence. 546 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:54,840 Now, not in my story, but, but from listening to other people's story gives me enough that 547 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,080 I am absolutely convinced that, that there is an afterlife and that it's a good one. 548 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,120 We don't, we don't need to fear it. 549 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:06,160 Even if we've done wrong, we can ask for forgiveness and we can just try to do better in the future. 550 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:11,880 And I want people to be reassured as I am because I wasn't reassured until, until learning 551 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,040 about these things. 552 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,360 I was anxious about dying and about what's going to happen in the future. 553 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:18,520 And I no longer am. 554 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,160 And none of this on earth really matters. 555 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:22,520 Not quite so much. 556 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:28,600 What really matters is just how we treat people, which is, which is the teachings of Christ. 557 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,960 That's really, in my mind, all that he was teaching. 558 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,800 And so I don't really, not, not so sure about religion all the time. 559 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:40,360 Christ's teachings were just to, to do the right thing for other people, to, to love 560 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:41,360 them. 561 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:42,360 All right. 562 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:43,760 Barbara, I really appreciate it. 563 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,600 I know you've touched somebody today, so thank you for your time. 564 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:48,600 Thank you. 565 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,400 Thank you for doing this. 566 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:52,760 Thanks again for listening. 567 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,920 If you haven't already, hit that follow or subscribe button. 568 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,880 Now is a great time to do it. 569 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,960 And if you want to help us continue to put out this kind of quality content, head on 570 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,200 over to roundtripdeath.com. 571 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,360 Look for that itty bitty donate button in the upper right hand corner. 572 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:09,040 You know what to do from there. 573 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,360 And while you're 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