1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,480 From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes. 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:13,440 They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped. 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,120 And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,320 physical body because I was somewhere else. 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:27,400 The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,400 anything else to be felt. 7 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,520 I was greeted by people I'd known in the past. 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,240 I'm back home again. 9 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:39,040 Incredibly safe and felt at home. 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:44,800 Welcome, welcome everybody to Round Trip Death and a special welcome to our, oh, I'm going 11 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:49,600 to call him famous, whatever, our very special guest Howard Storm. 12 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,120 How are you Howard? 13 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:52,120 Okay. 14 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,480 Let me tell you a little bit about myself. 15 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:59,440 I was born in 1946. 16 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:05,640 I like to think I was one of the first things I did when my father came back from the Pacific 17 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,400 during World War II. 18 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,640 I grew up in a very dysfunctional family. 19 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:15,240 My father was extremely abusive every day, physically, emotionally. 20 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:19,360 My mother was very loving kind and extremely passive. 21 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:26,080 At the age 15, I had a long talk with my pastor because I was seriously thinking of going 22 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:35,560 into the ministry when he explained what Christianity really was about, which was, with his Harvard 23 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:44,680 University understanding Christianity was about myths and superstitions and fairy tales. 24 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:50,760 I walked out of that meaning knowing that I was not going to have anything to do with 25 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,480 church, religion, God, Jesus ever again. 26 00:01:55,480 --> 00:02:04,360 I quickly became an existentialist under the influence of Jean-Paul Sartre and Albert 27 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,760 Camus and Martin Heidegger, et cetera. 28 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:16,360 I stayed that way up until my near-death experience on June 1, 1985. 29 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:27,520 I had become an art professor in 1972, had a wife, two kids, a nice home, two cars, and 30 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:40,440 was living the American dream in totally self-centered, aid type personality, obsessed with my career, 31 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:46,040 my success, and hopefully ultimately my fame as an artist. 32 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,680 Well the American dream, all right. 33 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,760 Well Howard, thanks for telling us about you. 34 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:55,480 I'm going to interject some more because I know you're too humble to talk about it, but 35 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,720 you are very well known in the near-death experience community. 36 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,440 You've been in films, documentaries, you've written how many books now? 37 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:10,680 I've just published my fifth book and I'm working on five more with my publisher in 38 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:11,960 England. 39 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:14,520 And what's your newest book called? 40 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:22,240 My new book is called Following Jesus, The Way, The Truth, and the Life. 41 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:23,240 Sounds beautiful. 42 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:30,960 I just for fun went on YouTube and looked at a couple of your videos and by total random, 43 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,120 I'm going to read you some comments that are on there, okay? 44 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,200 Because again, I know you're a little too humble to do this. 45 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:39,880 Here you go. 46 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,520 Here's from someone named Anthony. 47 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,640 Love you, Howard Storm. 48 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,880 I will never forget you. 49 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,120 Listen to your stories over and over. 50 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,760 I'm following the Lord much more closely and it's because of you. 51 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,600 Well, that's very gratifying. 52 00:03:58,600 --> 00:03:59,600 Here's another one. 53 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,520 Just ordered your new book, Mr. Storm. 54 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,320 You've made a huge impact on my life. 55 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:05,680 Thank you and I love you. 56 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,040 Your words made me just melt. 57 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:13,200 Okay, I know you're getting embarrassed, but you're going to get a couple more. 58 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,600 Well, I'll just end with this one because this is the best. 59 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:18,200 This is all capital letters. 60 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:23,880 It says, I love, love, love you, Howard Storm. 61 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,920 You've made a big impact on a lot of people. 62 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,560 I appreciate you being on with me today. 63 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:35,160 If you don't mind, let's go back to 1985, that day that you were talking about. 64 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:40,480 Now you had decided not to become clergy. 65 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:45,880 Were you, would you consider yourself more of an atheist or agnostic or where did you 66 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:46,880 fit in that whole thing? 67 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,000 Well, I was a very hardcore atheist. 68 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:54,800 And all, I was a professor at the university and all of my friends were hardcore atheists, 69 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:55,800 too. 70 00:04:55,800 --> 00:05:01,760 And one of our favorite topics at one and two o'clock in the morning after consuming 71 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:10,040 several pictures of beer was to talk about how stupid and delusional religious people 72 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:11,040 were. 73 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:12,600 And let me narrow that down. 74 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:18,120 We didn't ridicule Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims. 75 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:19,920 We never talked about them. 76 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,240 Our target of our ridicule was Christians. 77 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,520 Seems to happen a lot, doesn't it? 78 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:30,440 Okay, what happened on that day in 1985? 79 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:31,440 What led up to your NDE? 80 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:36,880 I'm going to give you a really short version. 81 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:45,960 At 11 o'clock in the morning, I had a perforation of the duodham in simple English, a hole through 82 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:51,760 my small stomach, which took me to the ground in the worst pain I had ever experienced in 83 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:52,760 my life. 84 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,880 My wife called, we were at the hotel. 85 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:57,720 My wife called the desk. 86 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,680 They got an emergency doctor who came very quickly and knew exactly what was wrong. 87 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:06,800 Said he was going to call an ambulance because I needed to have surgery within an hour or 88 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:08,120 I would die. 89 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:13,680 The ambulance came, took me to the big city hospital in Paris, the hospital general, the 90 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:20,840 assistant public, de Paris, and examined by two very nice doctors. 91 00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:24,000 An emergency told me the exact same thing. 92 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:31,040 That doctor that had been in the hotel said rushed me over to the surgical hospital where 93 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:37,600 I was parked because unbeknownst to me and unbeknownst to the doctor's emergency. 94 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:43,240 Because it was a Saturday, which there's a French technical term for that, it's le 95 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:44,240 weekend. 96 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,960 Do you want me to translate that into English for you? 97 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:47,960 Le weekend? 98 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,560 No, I think we got it. 99 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:50,560 Oh, good. 100 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,960 But I assume what that meant was a lot of medical staff weren't there. 101 00:06:54,960 --> 00:07:03,360 Yeah, if you had the money and could get out of Paris for the weekend and had a nice little 102 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,960 country place, that's where you went. 103 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,920 Anyways, I was parked on a bed. 104 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,000 I was not technically admitted to that hospital. 105 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,800 I was under no doctor care and I was left there for 10 hours. 106 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,080 I never saw a doctor once an hour. 107 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:25,080 Our nurse would come in and come to the room and ask me how I was doing. 108 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:31,200 I would tell her in my poor French that I was dying and she would shrug her shoulders 109 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:32,200 and leave. 110 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,960 An hour later she'd come back and same question, same response. 111 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:46,720 The pain that I experienced at the hotel got worse and worse and worse. 112 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,320 Breathing became almost impossible. 113 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:57,360 The American doctor I've talked to ever since that experience told me that my life expectancy 114 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,200 was about two hours. 115 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:05,440 The American doctors always use this weird word that had not been part of my vocabulary 116 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:13,440 was it's a miracle you're alive because that night nurse came into the room and said they 117 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:18,160 were unable to find a doctor and they were trying to get one the next day, which would 118 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,440 have been Sunday and left the room. 119 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:29,520 I made my goodbyes to my wife and told her that I was going to die now. 120 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:32,560 I closed my eyes and went unconscious. 121 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:38,600 I had a very extensive near death experience which began with a group of people taking 122 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,160 me to L and tearing me apart. 123 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:52,080 In desperation my mind went back to my childhood, Sunday school, singing Jesus Loves Me. 124 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:57,080 I called out to Jesus to save me. 125 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,560 He came, he took me out of there. 126 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:06,560 I had a life review and then when that was over he invited me to ask questions. 127 00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:11,120 We spent the next several years together where he taught me a lot of stuff. 128 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:18,760 When I say several years, that's not accurate because there's no time outside of this world. 129 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,400 The time that we have in this world is linear time. 130 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,840 It's what we know in God's world. 131 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:33,200 Time is without measure and one can move through time at will past, present, and future. 132 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:37,200 Anyways, that's a whole long another story. 133 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:45,440 At the end of my graduate degree with my best friend in the whole world who goes by the 134 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:53,200 name of Jesus, also known in Hebrew, Yeshua, I said that I want to go to heaven and he 135 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:57,960 said no you don't have the character to fit in heaven, you've got to go back into this 136 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:05,800 world and try and live the way that God created you to live. 137 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,800 We had a big argument. 138 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:14,400 He won the argument and sent me back when I came back. 139 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:19,400 The nurse who had been in the room earlier said there was no doctor that night, said 140 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:25,880 a doctor has arrived and I had that surgery 10 o'clock that night. 141 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:35,240 I just want to conclude this with when I woke from the surgery that morning, I knew that 142 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:40,840 the most important thing in my life had happened to me. 143 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:47,760 I knew that it was more real, far more real than what we call reality. 144 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:54,440 Life changing and all I could think about that morning was where do I begin? 145 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,080 What do I do? 146 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:00,520 And so that's what I've been working on for almost 40 years. 147 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:01,920 What do I do? 148 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,880 How do I live a way that's more pleasing to God? 149 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:11,760 To put it quite simply, my goal is to live a life pleasing to God. 150 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,680 The good news is I'm not alone in this. 151 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:22,280 I have my buddy Jesus with me all the time and the way that he's with me all the time, 152 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,440 it's called the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ. 153 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:33,920 So we are in touch all the time, every day, and I rely upon connecting with the Spirit 154 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:42,760 of Christ to both guide me and also to correct me when I screw up, which I do. 155 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,560 Don't we all? 156 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:51,560 If you don't mind, Howard, I want to go back and ask you some questions to fill in a lot 157 00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:54,800 of details back here along the way. 158 00:11:54,800 --> 00:12:00,480 So first of all, and I don't want to spend a bunch of time on this, but give us a little 159 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:07,000 more description of what this hellish experience was and who was tearing you apart. 160 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,400 Okay. 161 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,000 They were people. 162 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,720 I never met a demon. 163 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,560 People always want to ask me about the demons. 164 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:17,080 I never saw any demons. 165 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:18,960 Let me just do a quick aside here. 166 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,400 I had an experience of hell. 167 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:27,800 Hell is vast and there is unlimited variety of hellish experiences. 168 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:33,320 I've talked to many, many people who have had hellish experiences. 169 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:37,760 None of us who've had hellish experiences want to talk about them. 170 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:38,760 They're traumatic. 171 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:45,800 I had a good friend who is a psychiatrist and he told me one time that I was suffering 172 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:53,360 from PTSD from my hellish experience and that he wanted to do therapy with me to help me 173 00:12:53,360 --> 00:13:00,160 overcome that PTSD and we did it and it was very, very helpful by the way. 174 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:06,560 I don't want anybody, anybody to ever experience what I did. 175 00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:12,640 They took me on a long journey to this group of people that seduced me out of my hospital 176 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:22,160 room and took me into an ever increasing darkness which ultimately became complete total darkness 177 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:27,800 and I was terrified of them because I was becoming very aware that they were very cruel 178 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:28,800 people. 179 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:34,960 I said, I'm not going with you any further and with that we got into a big fight and 180 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:40,840 I tried to resist them but there were a lot of them, many, many of them and obviously 181 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:49,160 they had their way with me and it degenerated from kicking and punching to ripping, gouging, 182 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:57,680 tearing, biting, clawing which degenerated into invasive things and that's where I stopped 183 00:13:57,680 --> 00:14:07,200 because I have never told and I will never tell ever what they did to me. 184 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:16,680 The point was they did everything they could to demean me and left me on the ground of 185 00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:26,000 that place unable to move which is when eventually I called upon Jesus out of desperation. 186 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,000 Well, thank you for sharing. 187 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,760 I know that was hard. 188 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:35,200 I'm trying to understand how an atheist calls on Jesus. 189 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,680 Is it because of that point of desperation? 190 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:39,680 Do you think? 191 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,080 How would you describe that now? 192 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:48,040 Well let me preface this with a little Bible quote. 193 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:54,000 The Bible says in four different places, anyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall 194 00:14:54,000 --> 00:15:03,800 be saved and if you look up that scripture there's no if ands, buts, maybes. 195 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:08,240 It's just laid in there that simple and plain. 196 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,200 I think that it's really important. 197 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:19,280 It means sincerely when calling upon Jesus is like, hey Jesus if you're not too busy 198 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:22,680 if you're just hanging out, hey drop by sometime. 199 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:23,680 Not like that. 200 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:24,680 It's desperation. 201 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:31,640 It's got to be right from the heart and I really believe that if anyone does that, really 202 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:33,720 does it from their heart. 203 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,080 He's going to respond. 204 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:39,880 My call was Jesus saved me. 205 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,360 Pretty simple prayer, right? 206 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:43,720 He did. 207 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:44,880 He not just saved me. 208 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,520 He gave me a whole new life. 209 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:50,280 That was like I said almost 40 years ago. 210 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:52,160 I started going to church. 211 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:53,280 I became a pastor. 212 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,400 I served churches for 30 years. 213 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:57,480 All right books about it. 214 00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,640 I do YouTube. 215 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,040 I do interviews like this one. 216 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:08,200 I always try to respond to every email I get with people's questions. 217 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:09,840 I have a website. 218 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:17,200 There's a connect on there and I welcome anyone that would like to write me or ask me something 219 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,160 or share something with me. 220 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,160 I make myself available and that's my life. 221 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:24,160 Okay. 222 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,080 My next question is back to the life review. 223 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,560 I hear different stories on what those were like. 224 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,280 Tell me what yours was like. 225 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:39,720 Well, I've talked to a lot of people who've had near death experiences and people that 226 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,320 have had extensive near death experiences have had a life review. 227 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:50,040 Now they may differ a little bit. 228 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,880 The life review is truth. 229 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,440 It's not our memory of our life. 230 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,520 Our life was recorded and I'm not talking about a book. 231 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:08,960 I'm talking about the full audio visual plus. 232 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:14,560 One thing you'll hear from a lot of people that had a life review is that the impact 233 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:23,320 that they've had on the people that they've interacted with, they also get to know. 234 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,240 Let me just give you one simple example. 235 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:33,360 My mother, I was her only son and I was the apple of her eye and they showed me how much 236 00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:39,160 I hurt my mother by being such a rebellious child. 237 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:43,680 The last thing in the world I ever wanted to do was to hurt my mom but I'm running away 238 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:49,720 from home at the age of 15 showing up three months later. 239 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:51,840 That kind of stuff really hurt her. 240 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:58,760 I never really appreciated how much pain I caused my dear mom. 241 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:08,960 Jesus did a lot in my life review showing me why my father was the very screwed up, 242 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,600 extremely narcissistic, cruel man that he was. 243 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,600 It was because of his upbringing. 244 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:22,960 Jesus wanted me to understand why my father was the way I was and it was Jesus's hope 245 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:28,960 that somehow I could be reconciled with my father when I came back into this world, which 246 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:31,720 to a certain degree I was. 247 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:36,000 The life review is not punishment. 248 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,320 It's not like a courtroom trial. 249 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:47,240 You're simply confronted with the truth of the good and the bad and the indifferent that 250 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,320 you did with your life. 251 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:51,520 You've had a lot of years to think about this now. 252 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,880 I'm going to ask you to speculate on some things. 253 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,560 Give me your opinion on some things. 254 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,960 One is why a life review? 255 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:04,720 If it's not like a court, it's not like you're guilty or you're not guilty. 256 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,960 What is the purpose of it? 257 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:08,960 Question. 258 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:14,160 God's love is not punitive. 259 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:16,680 God loves us. 260 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,800 God's love is rehabilitative. 261 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,680 Now I have to add this. 262 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:32,720 People will naturally go to the question if God's love is to bring us to heaven and rehabilitate 263 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:37,920 us, which let me put this in a little more religious terms. 264 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:44,680 God's love is for our ultimate total sanctification so that we can be in heaven forever. 265 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:51,840 Why does God have that alternate place to heaven known as hell? 266 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,760 And the reason is very simple. 267 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:59,760 People get what is in their heart. 268 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:07,240 If your heart has chosen a rejection of God, you get to reject God. 269 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:12,080 You get to go to a place where God doesn't rule. 270 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:15,920 Matter of fact, none of the goodness of God is there at all. 271 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:16,920 People rule. 272 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:25,240 Unfortunately, those people degenerate into the worst of human behavior. 273 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:30,120 They live to torment one another. 274 00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:31,800 There's no light down there. 275 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,120 There's no birds. 276 00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:34,800 There's no food. 277 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,240 There's no joy. 278 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,360 And most importantly, there's no hope. 279 00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:43,600 What happens to those people in hell? 280 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:54,840 It would be wonderful if they all hit that point of desperation, total rejection of their 281 00:20:54,840 --> 00:21:02,320 mental construct of being angry and hating the God that they say doesn't exist. 282 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,640 They would call upon Jesus. 283 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:10,160 I would like to think that if they did that, Jesus would come and take them out of there. 284 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:17,400 The people that I met in hell were not interested in calling upon Jesus or God and made it very 285 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:23,920 clear to me that they knew there was no God in the most vulgar ways. 286 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,880 So people get what they choose. 287 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:32,200 If you choose God, God is going to help you find the way. 288 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:36,360 If you choose Jesus, Jesus is going to help you find the way. 289 00:21:36,360 --> 00:21:38,360 And that's what I wrote this. 290 00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:44,840 Well, all my books are about that more or less, but the recent one is very directly about 291 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:50,600 what it means to choose Jesus and follow his way. 292 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:57,640 I hope that the stuff that I'm putting out there, whether it's a YouTube or an interview 293 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:07,040 or a book or whatever, my ministry of 30 years, I hope that I have been helpful in people 294 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:20,160 making that choice because I know that rejecting God is a choice and seeking God is a choice. 295 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,000 I know this sounds simple, but that's it, baby. 296 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:26,360 You've got one or two choices. 297 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:34,280 It's a simple binary choice that you have to make, one or the other. 298 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,680 Jesus talking about shame and guilt. 299 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,000 What did he have to say about that? 300 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:47,600 Jesus and I talked a lot about guilt and shame, and he really despises those things because 301 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:54,440 those are just us wallowing in things that we can be free from. 302 00:22:54,440 --> 00:23:01,000 When Jesus died on the cross, he said, Father, forgive them for they know not what they do. 303 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:07,600 And he was speaking to a crowd that was mocking him, a crowd that was not only tormenting him 304 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:16,520 with their jeers, but also the people that had whipped him almost to death with the 40 305 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:17,520 lashes. 306 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:24,600 He was talking to the people who nailed him to the cross, the people that were really enjoying 307 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:30,640 watching him suffer this long, horrible death on the cross. 308 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,760 You think you've done something bad? 309 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:40,400 You're nothing compared to the people that killed Jesus. 310 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,400 That was bad. 311 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,400 You want bad? 312 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:47,680 How about the people that killed Jesus because they didn't like the love that he offered the 313 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:48,800 world? 314 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:53,040 You take your stuff to Jesus. 315 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:54,880 You be honest with him. 316 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,680 You fess up. 317 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,600 You turn your life around. 318 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,600 You make a change, and you ask him to forgive you. 319 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,040 And that stuff is finished. 320 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,160 It's gone, and you will not see it in your life review. 321 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:11,640 Get smart people. 322 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:13,600 Get your life review. 323 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:14,600 Clean it up. 324 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,200 You don't have to look at the bad stuff if you don't want to. 325 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,080 One other question about the life review. 326 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:28,960 I'm a very private person, so I'm uncomfortable with the thought of my whole life being recorded. 327 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:30,880 Why do you think it's recorded? 328 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,360 I don't really understand. 329 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:43,120 It's recorded because our memory of our life is highly inaccurate. 330 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:48,560 It is highly colored by our emotions. 331 00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:52,720 Once let me give you an example since I used my father. 332 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:58,640 In my mind, my father was a monster, and I was the victim of a monster. 333 00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:05,520 And one of the things that Jesus showed me was how I had contributed, which I never would 334 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:12,280 have admitted and certainly didn't recognize, into the deterioration of our relationship. 335 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:18,960 The crueler he was to me, the more I hated him, and the more he knew, because it was 336 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:24,440 quite obvious that I disliked him intensely. 337 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:31,720 So therefore he tried to impose himself more and more on me to the point where we had no 338 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,240 relationship at all. 339 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,040 All right, we're going to get to the part that I've been looking forward to the very, 340 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:38,040 very, very most. 341 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,840 I don't know if you can guess what that is or not, but you talked about having a question 342 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:44,840 and answer session. 343 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,040 I've got to know what some of those questions and answers were. 344 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:49,040 Okay. 345 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,720 Well, let me, can I start off with the biggie? 346 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,480 I'll start off with the one that I considered the best one. 347 00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:02,400 When Jesus told me that I had to come back to this world and try and live it in a way 348 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:08,360 that would be more consistent, which is why God created me and everyone in the first place, 349 00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:14,560 to be children of God, I said, what do you want me to do if I were to go back? 350 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,920 This is when I was still pleading to go to heaven. 351 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:23,600 He said, quote, love the person you're with. 352 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,800 I said quickly and glibly, okay, got it. 353 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,280 What else do you want me to do? 354 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:34,480 And before he could answer, I started to tell him that I was going to look for a big piece 355 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:41,160 of land out in the country and build a big, amazing shrine to him so that people would 356 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:47,040 come from all over the world to see the shrine that I had built in Jesus. 357 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:53,320 And he said, quote, please don't do that. 358 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,320 And I said, I was shocked because I thought it was a really good idea. 359 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:58,840 And I said, why? 360 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,360 And he said, I don't need it. 361 00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:03,960 God doesn't need it. 362 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:09,040 And I interrupted him and said, yeah, well, what about all the cathedrals and the shrines 363 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,040 all over the world? 364 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:11,040 You know, what about all those? 365 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:14,440 And he said, those are for people. 366 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,880 God doesn't need that stuff, you know? 367 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,640 I don't need that stuff. 368 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:21,920 That's for people. 369 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:26,760 He said, I want you to love the person that you're with. 370 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,400 I said to him, yeah, that's nice. 371 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,240 What good will that do? 372 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:40,040 He said, if you love the person that you're with, they may carry that love to their next 373 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:46,240 interaction with another person, be kind and loving towards them. 374 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,920 And that person might carry that out. 375 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:54,320 And he didn't say this, but in my own words, you know, it's the ripple effect, you know, 376 00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,160 throw the stone in the water and the ripples go out, right? 377 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,440 That's what he was trying to teach me. 378 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:06,760 So of course, me thinking that I'm so smart and have to teach Jesus, I said, oh, that's 379 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:08,760 not going to work. 380 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:14,840 I said, the world's full of cruelty, lots of nasty people, you know, you do something 381 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:20,680 loving and the next person gets slammed for it, they get discouraged and that's the end 382 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,080 of it. 383 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:28,400 And he said, we have millions of people who are trying to do this. 384 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:34,920 I explained, yeah, well, your millions are a minority in the world and it's not going 385 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:35,920 to work. 386 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,160 He said, we have billions of angels. 387 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,440 And I said, yeah, well, with your millions of people and your billions of angels, it's 388 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:44,600 not going to work. 389 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,680 That love thing's not going to work. 390 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,800 Now Jesus now dropped the nuclear bomb on me. 391 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:51,920 You ready for it? 392 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,640 Eric, you ready? 393 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:54,800 Ready. 394 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,680 I'm so ready. 395 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,160 He said, it's God's will. 396 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:09,440 Well, as arrogant and ignorant as I was, I did not know how to respond to the nuclear 397 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:10,440 bomb. 398 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,160 It's God's will. 399 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:13,160 Oops. 400 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:20,400 That's what we call a mic drop. 401 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:25,880 Jesus says it's God's will, drops the mic, walks away, end of discussion. 402 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:26,880 Amen. 403 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:33,280 Yeah, I was dumbstruck, didn't know what to say. 404 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:39,400 It sounds like the university professor side of you was coming back out in that discussion. 405 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:40,760 You were trying to reason. 406 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,600 You were trying to, yeah, do all that kind of stuff. 407 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,880 I'd love to hear a couple of other questions you asked him. 408 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,800 Oh, let's see. 409 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,840 You know, I really did ask him hundreds and thousands of questions. 410 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,360 Here's a kind of fun one. 411 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:03,240 He had told me that there was some intelligent life on other planets in our universe. 412 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,760 And I'm not just talking about the multiverse. 413 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,840 I'm talking about our physical universe, which of course is just one of many universes. 414 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:16,400 And he told me, oh, there's many, many. 415 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,720 And I said, what do they look like? 416 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:27,560 So he called forth a parade of alien beings beginning with ones that were human like, 417 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:34,400 and maybe, you know, that have strange ears or noses or different colors and things like 418 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:35,400 that. 419 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,120 And then they started getting weirder and weirder. 420 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,480 And then they started getting really strange. 421 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:44,920 Have you ever seen photographs of very deep sea creatures? 422 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:45,960 Yeah. 423 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,240 They look like they're from another planet. 424 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,240 Yeah. 425 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,320 Well, these looked like people from other planets, and they were all waving and smiling at me 426 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,040 as they went parading by. 427 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:58,600 And it was kind of freaking me out. 428 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,040 So I said to Jesus, OK, OK, OK, I got it. 429 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:02,040 I got it. 430 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,040 That's enough. 431 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,040 I don't want to see any more. 432 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,040 That's like, you're weird. 433 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,440 Now, I'll give you, that was sort of a fun one. 434 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:13,360 Another question that I asked him when we talked about what is known as the heavenly 435 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:23,480 choir, which I like to refer to as the heavenly symphony, because it's way more than just vocal. 436 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:24,480 What's the point? 437 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,600 I mean, obviously, they're worshiping God and they're in close proximity to God and 438 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:33,880 everybody's getting their major love going back and forth. 439 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:40,040 So that, that, of course, is one of the purposes known in the world as worship. 440 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:48,240 But the ultimate point is, is that the universe, and this is not, I'm going into, this is what 441 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:55,280 Jesus, Jesus told me, taught me, the universe is made up of vibrational states. 442 00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:03,040 If you look into theoretical physics, you'll find out that this is what all theoretical 443 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,120 physicists teach. 444 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,800 This is what Jesus taught me. 445 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:15,000 Choir and energy are simply forms of vibrational states. 446 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:20,200 Guess what the source of those vibrational states are, Eric? 447 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,600 I'm not giving you time to answer. 448 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:28,480 The source of those vibrational states are God and the heavenly choir. 449 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:36,040 And Jesus told me that if the heavenly choir and God were to cease, the whole universe would 450 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:37,400 vanish. 451 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:46,120 They would not be at all because they created, and not only are they creating it by sustaining 452 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:50,880 what is, but also creating a new. 453 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:55,320 And that's one of the reasons why there's some multi-universes. 454 00:32:55,320 --> 00:33:01,880 This physical universe that we know is not the only universe in existence. 455 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:07,080 And God is constantly, please don't take this as blasphemy. 456 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:13,600 God is just like this wild, crazy artist, just the most creative being, and he just 457 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:14,960 loves to create. 458 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:20,440 And one of the things that he loves to create besides beautiful things and extraordinary 459 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:27,960 things like galaxies and planets and suns and habitable worlds with all kinds of interesting 460 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:36,560 life forms, he likes to create beings who actually have the capacity with the gifts 461 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:47,400 that he gives to interact with God and to become holy people and come to heaven and to participate 462 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:53,440 with God in the creative activity of the universe. 463 00:33:53,440 --> 00:34:02,920 I never use the term co-creator because that might imply some equality with God. 464 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:14,720 Our creative activity is under the design, control, and empowerment of God. 465 00:34:14,720 --> 00:34:17,960 We participate with God and the creation. 466 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:24,120 We are not in this no equality at all between us and God. 467 00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:33,320 Quite a destiny that we will ultimately, in our process of sanctification, be in close 468 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:39,520 proximity to God participating in the creation of the universe. 469 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:40,520 How about that? 470 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:44,120 You just said God is a wild, crazy artist. 471 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,560 Sorry, when you say wild and crazy, I think of Steve Martin. 472 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,560 I'm getting away from that. 473 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:55,520 You're a wild and crazy artist, does that mean the place where you saw some really 474 00:34:55,520 --> 00:35:00,640 cool creative things and if so describe some? 475 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:06,360 I'm going to give you a definitive description of heaven. 476 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:15,080 Everything good, everything beautiful, everything that ever was good and beautiful, everything 477 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:20,440 that is good and beautiful, everything that ever will be good and beautiful is in heaven. 478 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,600 When you talk to people that have been to heaven, and I did get a tour of heaven, by 479 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:31,000 the way, how about grass and flowers and trees that sing? 480 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,520 How do you like that puppy? 481 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:36,720 Everything in heaven is alive. 482 00:35:36,720 --> 00:35:40,760 The rocks are alive in heaven. 483 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:47,480 People project what they think heaven is by their experience in this world. 484 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,760 People argue about what kind of mansion they're going to get in heaven and what kind of food 485 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,240 they're going to eat in heaven. 486 00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:57,800 It's way beyond, way better than that. 487 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,280 So aren't we? 488 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:01,280 I got to tell you this. 489 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:02,280 This is a story. 490 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:05,440 I had a guy that sent me a bunch of emails because he wanted to know what kind of shoes 491 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,200 we were going to wear in heaven. 492 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:12,200 I tried to explain to him where you don't need shoes. 493 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,960 Yeah, you want to walk in that singing grass. 494 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:16,080 By the way, you won't hurt it. 495 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,400 It'll tickle your feet. 496 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,080 I want to go everywhere barefoot. 497 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:21,760 That sounds better to me. 498 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,720 So I'm glad to hear that answer. 499 00:36:24,720 --> 00:36:29,200 Are there any other things that you can describe that you saw? 500 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,640 I love hearing about everything being alive and singing. 501 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:42,080 My tour of heaven, I saw incredibly beautiful mountains, wonderful oceans, lakes, forests, 502 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:47,920 vast plains of grass, animals. 503 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:48,920 I'm a dog lover. 504 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,640 I've had multiple dogs all my life. 505 00:36:52,640 --> 00:37:02,560 I believe, I don't know this, but I believe that somehow either the dogs that I've had 506 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:10,120 or maybe some kind of single dog that embodies all the dogs that I've had, I will be greeted 507 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:11,680 with them in heaven. 508 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:16,440 Because for me, I need a doggy in heaven. 509 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:20,840 Dogs are my best friends. 510 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,040 I don't mean that globally. 511 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,560 I mean, I'm quite serious. 512 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,720 I'm just crazy. 513 00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:30,320 Dogs give unconditional love. 514 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:37,400 And so I believe that dogs are a gift from God to teach us unconditional love. 515 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:44,000 Now, there's horse people and cat people and bird people and lots of different. 516 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,240 But I'm a dog guy. 517 00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:49,720 I'm going to skip ahead just a little bit and come back here. 518 00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:55,520 But I'm curious after this experience, you had to have been completely changed. 519 00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,160 You had to have changed your title from atheist to something else. 520 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:06,200 What was it like speaking with your wife, your colleagues back at the university, when 521 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,400 you were so different now? 522 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,160 This is not good. 523 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:15,120 My wife ultimately, we got divorced. 524 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,160 I mean, she left me. 525 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:22,520 I fought that divorce, but she didn't want to be married to me after 40 years of marriage. 526 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,440 Anyways, she hated what I had become. 527 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:33,400 But in fact, because all I wanted to do was talk about Jesus and God, and I started reading 528 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:34,400 the Bible. 529 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:41,560 And one of the things I did was I started memorizing scripture and reciting it to people 530 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:42,560 all the time. 531 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,960 I mean, I was a total fanatic, complete seller. 532 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:51,080 I mean, I was super obnoxious trying to get people to want to know Jesus. 533 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:53,800 I don't do that anymore. 534 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,320 I've really changed my style of evangelism. 535 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:04,400 Anyways, I turned her off, turned my kids off, turned my mother off. 536 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,400 And everyone that came into my room, I was in the hospital in the United States for a 537 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:09,640 couple months. 538 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,960 I would try the same thing and I turned them all off. 539 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,280 The word got out at the university. 540 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,320 I had some visitors or friends. 541 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:20,400 I would try and tell them what happened to me. 542 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:22,760 They would never, my best friends. 543 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,880 They would never speak to me again. 544 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,840 When they saw me coming, they would go way out of their way to avoid me. 545 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:36,080 And I lost every friend I had in the world and lost my whole family. 546 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:40,880 My wife, my two kids, I was all alone. 547 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:46,080 The good news was I had started going to church and I started making new friends. 548 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:52,840 I just want to say my Christian friends are far better friends than I ever had. 549 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,080 And I may as well tell you the unvarnished truth. 550 00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:01,480 So I came home from a mission trip on the Amazon River. 551 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:08,000 And when I came home, the house, my ex-wife, my first wife of 40 years, she was an attorney. 552 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:13,360 When I came home from that mission trip, the house was empty and there were divorce papers 553 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,040 on the kitchen table with a note, sign this. 554 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:23,040 So we got divorced because that's what she wanted and she was not interested in trying 555 00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:26,400 to resuscitate the marriage. 556 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,320 Now here's the really dumb part. 557 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,920 Eric, you're dealing with a major dumb head here. 558 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:38,440 Three weeks after the divorce, I got married to another woman. 559 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:42,960 Everybody that I talked to about my plan to marry her told me, don't do that. 560 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:43,960 It's a big mistake. 561 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:45,440 She's not right for you. 562 00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:49,000 But I told myself, I'm in love. 563 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:50,200 They don't understand. 564 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:51,200 I'm in love. 565 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:52,320 She's the one for me. 566 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,000 It's going to be great. 567 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:58,720 16 years later, she walked out on me. 568 00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:00,440 We got divorced. 569 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,160 So I decided that I would never date. 570 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,680 I would never marry again. 571 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:09,400 That lasted for over a year. 572 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,240 One morning I woke up and said, I love women. 573 00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:13,320 What am I talking about? 574 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:14,880 I need a wife. 575 00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:16,680 I need a woman. 576 00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,240 It's a long story, which I don't have time to go into, but it's really incredible. 577 00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:22,200 God thing, story. 578 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:28,200 A pastor friend of mine handed me a slip of paper and he said, here's a name and a telephone 579 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:29,320 number called this woman. 580 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:34,400 I think that this is the woman that God has planned for you. 581 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,080 And I called her. 582 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:43,480 I made a date with her to have coffee at 10 o'clock in the morning near her house. 583 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:47,200 We met for coffee at noon time. 584 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,600 We were falling in love. 585 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,200 And I said, are you hungry? 586 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:52,840 She said, I'm famished. 587 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,880 And I said, there's a really nice restaurant next door. 588 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,240 And she said, oh, I love that place. 589 00:41:58,240 --> 00:42:01,760 We went next door three hours later. 590 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,200 I said, maybe you need to go home. 591 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,080 I know I got to go home and take care of my dog. 592 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:09,560 Can I call you tomorrow? 593 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:10,560 Can I see you tomorrow? 594 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:13,280 And she said, yes. 595 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:21,280 And three months later, we were talking about getting married and not too long after that. 596 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:31,040 And she is such a super Christian, such a loving, kind person and takes incredibly good 597 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:38,000 care of me because I've been through a lot of really big health crisis. 598 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,680 And she is just wonderful. 599 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:45,720 And everybody I know, before I can say it, says, boy, she's a gift from God. 600 00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:47,040 And I said, I know that. 601 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,480 I know that. 602 00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:54,760 I've got the most amazing wife. 603 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:55,760 And we're very happy. 604 00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:00,640 And we've been married for well over a year now. 605 00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:04,120 And by the way, my dog's lover. 606 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:05,120 Well that's important. 607 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:06,120 Oh, yeah. 608 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:08,680 And I'm not saying that sarcastically. 609 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:10,640 That's very important. 610 00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:12,120 And vice versa. 611 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:13,120 Okay. 612 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:16,120 I want to hear about the process of you coming back. 613 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,880 It sounds like you got in a bit of an argument with Jesus. 614 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:20,480 He said you had to go back. 615 00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:22,360 You didn't want to go. 616 00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:23,440 Give me a little more detail. 617 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:24,440 What all happened there? 618 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:31,280 Like one of the things that I knew would be incredibly powerful argument. 619 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:34,720 Once I said, why would you send me back to this world? 620 00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:39,200 The world is full of horrible, evil, cruel people. 621 00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,640 Why would you want to put me in that world? 622 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,040 And Jesus said, that's true. 623 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:53,920 But the world is also full of loving, kind, and wonderful people. 624 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:55,400 And then he added this. 625 00:43:55,400 --> 00:44:02,680 And I really hope that the people that are listening or seeing this podcast will pay 626 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,320 attention to this. 627 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:12,360 Jesus told me that what is in your heart is what you will find. 628 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:22,080 And then he explained, if you look for good and loving people, they will come to you in 629 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,080 your life. 630 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:31,160 If you look for cruel, rotten people, that's what you're going to find. 631 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:32,880 And you know what? 632 00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:33,880 Jesus was telling the truth. 633 00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:38,160 I have evangelizing and doing mission work been all over the world. 634 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:39,720 I spent a month in China. 635 00:44:39,720 --> 00:44:41,160 I've been in Africa. 636 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,720 I've been in all the countries of Western Europe. 637 00:44:44,720 --> 00:44:48,960 I've been in South America, Central America. 638 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:49,960 I've been all over the world. 639 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,960 And you know what I find, or that's just unbelievable? 640 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,160 Loving, kind, good people. 641 00:44:57,160 --> 00:45:03,720 And you know what else I found in all of my weeks and months of traveling around the world? 642 00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:10,200 I have never, ever had one bad experience, not one. 643 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,360 The good, loving, kind people are out there. 644 00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:21,480 What's in your heart is what you're going to find, look for them. 645 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:24,600 So did you come back kind of kicking and screaming then? 646 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:31,120 Well, I just had a three hour major abdominal surgery, so I wasn't very mobile. 647 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:36,560 But you know, all I could think about is, how am I going to change? 648 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:37,560 What am I going to change? 649 00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:42,720 Eric, in my opinion, the hardest thing for a person to do in this world is to change 650 00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:44,600 themselves. 651 00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:51,520 And if you talk to people in 12-step programs like AA, NA, Al-Anon, etc., they'll tell 652 00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:56,840 you, you know, for people to make any kind of change in themselves, it's really, really 653 00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,120 hard work, but important work. 654 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,720 So there I thought, what do I do? 655 00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:03,720 What do I do? 656 00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:04,720 What do I do? 657 00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:12,680 And like I said, it's been almost 40 years and I'm still trying to discover what I 658 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:16,920 could do better and what I've done wrong and what I've done right. 659 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:21,080 And that is a daily self-examination. 660 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:25,200 It's not like, you know, once a month or once a week, you know, every day. 661 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:29,040 Let me just give you a simple example. 662 00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:32,680 I've told you what an absolutely wonderful wife I have. 663 00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:33,680 I didn't tell you. 664 00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:37,720 I also have a temper. 665 00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:39,960 I don't mean to shock you, Eric. 666 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,000 Please don't turn off the video. 667 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:45,400 I thought you were perfect. 668 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:50,720 Now, Father Eric, I'm giving you a true confession here. 669 00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:57,480 There have been occasions when I have lost my temper with my wife because obviously she 670 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:06,000 did something to make me angry and not intentionally, but you know, we're all imperfect people. 671 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:07,960 And I've yelled at her. 672 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:14,280 You know, the minute I do that, you know, I go, oh, damn, stupid idiot me. 673 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,200 I'm talking about me. 674 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,600 You know, she doesn't deserve that. 675 00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:19,600 She doesn't need that. 676 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,800 And then I can feel that I've really hurt her. 677 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:29,480 My wife, who came from a very dysfunctional background too, she does not like to be yelled 678 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:30,600 at. 679 00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,000 It hurts her really badly. 680 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:40,040 You know, obviously what I have to do is I wait a little bit, give it a little time, 681 00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:43,240 you know, and then tell her, I'm so sorry. 682 00:47:43,240 --> 00:47:44,520 Please forgive me. 683 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:50,920 You know, I just flew off, you know, I didn't mean to do that. 684 00:47:50,920 --> 00:47:54,440 And I will really, really try not to do that kind of thing again. 685 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:58,520 I am working on not losing my temper. 686 00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,960 But Eric, you know that sometimes, you know, you don't think. 687 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:07,880 You just react, bang, you know, fight or flight, right? 688 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:15,680 And those times when I yell at my wife, fortunately, I would like to report I'm doing less and 689 00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,080 less of that all the time. 690 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,960 So yay for me, I'm making progress. 691 00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:25,000 I'm trying to change that lifelong. 692 00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:27,280 I used to be a real bully. 693 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,400 I used to be a very controlling person. 694 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:36,040 Actually my anger was highly effective in getting my way because I, you know, I was a 695 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,600 big strong guy and I could intimidate people. 696 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:44,680 Well, I don't try and intimidate anybody and I don't always try and get my own way. 697 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:50,600 And you know, when you're living with a person who's very patient and kind and caring, you 698 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:58,680 know, it's hard to really know when you're abusing their kindness, right? 699 00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,960 Well, thank you for sharing that. 700 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:07,360 We're all dealing with stuff and we're certainly not perfect. 701 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,320 Let's leave this off on a high note. 702 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,240 Oh, oh, first, wait. 703 00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:18,280 So I was asking about your sort of argument conversation with Jesus prior to coming back. 704 00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:23,560 Was there a point where he actually gave you the choice, you know, he said, here's why 705 00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:28,480 you need to go back now to your choice or were you just told you have to go back? 706 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,920 He made it really clear that I didn't have any choice in the matter. 707 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:38,400 And ultimately what he was waiting for was for me to agree with him. 708 00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:43,520 And it took a lot of arguing for him to ultimately persuade me. 709 00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:48,440 And what I finally said to him was, I don't want to, but I'll go back. 710 00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,080 And with that, I was back. 711 00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,600 So eventually it was your choice. 712 00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:54,600 Yeah. 713 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,600 Or your acceptance, maybe we should say. 714 00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:58,600 Yeah. 715 00:49:58,600 --> 00:49:59,600 Okay. 716 00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:03,240 You've done a lot of good out there in the world. 717 00:50:03,240 --> 00:50:08,560 And this is a tough place to live right now for a lot of people. 718 00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:13,000 Can you leave everybody with some kind of a message of hope here? 719 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:22,200 God has a definite plan that this world is going to become a utopia. 720 00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:32,080 The book of Revelation is so misunderstood and misrepresented by people because they 721 00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:37,440 want to focus on all the gruesome images in there. 722 00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:43,200 The whole point of the book, by the way, I took a class at a Catholic seminary about 723 00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:44,200 the book of Revelation. 724 00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:50,800 The whole point of the book of Revelation is ultimately the ending where God destroys 725 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:56,520 all the evil, all the evil in our world. 726 00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:01,040 It's all cast and destroyed in the lake of fire. 727 00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:05,460 And we build heaven on earth. 728 00:51:05,460 --> 00:51:12,680 As we pray in the Lord's prayer, Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in 729 00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:13,680 heaven. 730 00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,200 We create a utopia in this world. 731 00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,200 And that's the future of the world. 732 00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:21,240 When that's going to happen, the Bible is very clear. 733 00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:22,680 No one knows. 734 00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,040 So obviously, I don't know. 735 00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:29,520 And all those people that say they do, when they do, that's a big, giant red flag that 736 00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:31,760 they're a false prophet, by the way. 737 00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:33,520 No one knows when that's exactly. 738 00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,920 I'm hoping that it happens this afternoon. 739 00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:39,800 If not, how about by Friday? 740 00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:45,560 If not, I don't know when it's going to happen. 741 00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:49,440 Jesus suggested to me that it's not that far away. 742 00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:55,280 And with the science of the time and the world that we're living in, one can't help but suspect 743 00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,320 that it may not be so far away. 744 00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:03,600 And if you want to read a really good section of the Bible that spells all this out, and 745 00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:10,160 what I think is pretty powerful prophetic language, read the Gospel of Matthew chapter 746 00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:17,040 24, which is 100% the words of Jesus talking about how the New World, the New Earth is 747 00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:18,880 coming about. 748 00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:23,760 And I think we are in the labor pains of that coming about. 749 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:33,440 So our job, every single person in this world, is to, to the best of our ability, create 750 00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:41,960 a relationship with God through the Christ, and to be an instrument, not just for our 751 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:49,560 salvation, but for the salvation of everybody that we come in contact with. 752 00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:53,280 Going back to that thing that I said earlier about, love the person you're with. 753 00:52:53,280 --> 00:53:02,760 After you have a relationship with them, maybe, maybe, maybe you'll have an opportunity to 754 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:06,840 talk a little bit about what God and Jesus have done for you. 755 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:12,560 I think the most powerful of evangelism, in my opinion, is personal testimony. 756 00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:16,920 Things like, you know, well, I went through some really bad depression, and this is how 757 00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:21,920 Jesus helped me find my way out of that, etc. 758 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:28,240 I think that that kind of testimony is a whole lot more powerful than telling people what 759 00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:29,240 they should do. 760 00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:31,840 You know what, people get defensive when you tell them to do. 761 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:38,520 You know, Eric, you know, the problem with you is those shirts that you wear, you know, 762 00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:42,040 nobody can take you seriously with those ugly shirts you're wearing. 763 00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,400 Why don't you get a nice shirt, you know, and button up the collar? 764 00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:46,400 You know what I mean? 765 00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:48,000 Doesn't that make you feel a little defensive? 766 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,080 Like, you know, who, who the heck is Howard? 767 00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,840 You have no idea, you have no idea how true that is, Howard. 768 00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:59,640 And I know, and I know since you lost your vision, you can't see my shirt, but. 769 00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:00,640 That's true. 770 00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:05,320 I'm just wearing a t-shirt here, but usually I'm wearing a flowery shirt, so I know people 771 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:06,480 don't take me seriously. 772 00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:07,480 It's okay. 773 00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:08,480 Like Hawaiian flowery? 774 00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,480 Yes, Aloha shirts. 775 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:11,480 Uh-oh. 776 00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:12,480 Yes. 777 00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:16,160 Yeah, by the way, I've been getting rid of my Hawaiian shirts. 778 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:22,680 God, send me your address and I'll send you a box of Hawaiian shirts. 779 00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:23,680 Send them to me. 780 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:24,680 I grew up wearing them. 781 00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:26,080 I still love them. 782 00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:29,000 And I really don't care that people don't take them seriously. 783 00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:30,000 Yeah. 784 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,640 But today it's a plain old t-shirt. 785 00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,720 Uh, yeah, I don't look half as good as you do. 786 00:54:35,720 --> 00:54:37,280 Oh, wow. 787 00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:38,280 Truth really hurts. 788 00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,000 You got me between the eyes there. 789 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,920 See, I told you I had psychic. 790 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:44,920 All right. 791 00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,920 You do. 792 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:49,640 Very last question. 793 00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:55,480 I love asking people this on a scale of one to 10, how much fear of death does Howard 794 00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:56,480 Storm have? 795 00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:02,920 Thank you for asking that question because a psychologist who taught at the University 796 00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,200 of Connecticut studied that question. 797 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:08,720 His name is Ken Ring. 798 00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:11,360 He wrote about it. 799 00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:21,320 And so what he did was in psychology there's instruments, there are tests, you know, multi-page 800 00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:28,120 questions, the study of the fear of death called tontology. 801 00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:34,240 You know, fear of death is the number one fear that general, everyone in the world has. 802 00:55:34,240 --> 00:55:41,400 He used this instrument with two groups, people who have had near death experiences and people 803 00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,560 who had not had a near death experience. 804 00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:47,640 And in the group of people that had not had a near death experience, he found the fear 805 00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:49,920 of death to be quite high. 806 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:58,240 In the group of near death experiences, they flunked the test as in had no fear of death. 807 00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:01,920 So I have no fear of death. 808 00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:07,200 People that have had NDEs that I've known and I've gotten to talk to, they have no fear 809 00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:09,000 of death. 810 00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:17,000 None of us have a death wish because we all are very much convinced that we have work 811 00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:22,200 to do in this world, which I've tried to explain in that work is to pass on the love 812 00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,440 of God to follow Jesus. 813 00:56:25,440 --> 00:56:35,440 So I'm busy doing my J-O-B, which is trying to be as loving as I possibly can. 814 00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:45,080 But when I die, it's going to be the happiest, best day of my life because I'm going to leave 815 00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:55,080 this world of woe and to go up into a world of love, joy, and faith. 816 00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:56,080 Amen. 817 00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:58,080 Thank you very much, Howard. 818 00:56:58,080 --> 00:56:59,080 You're welcome. 819 00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:02,680 It's been a pleasure talking with you. 820 00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,480 Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast. 821 00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:11,560 Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtripdeath.com. 822 00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:15,840 If you want to share your near-death experience or if you have questions or comments about 823 00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:20,160 the show, send an email to ericatroundtripdeath.com. 824 00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:48,080 Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.