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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.

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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.

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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my

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physical body because I was somewhere else.

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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't

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anything else to be felt.

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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.

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I'm back home again.

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Incredibly safe and felt at home.

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Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody, and our very special guest, John Pazuro.

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I'm happy to have you today, John.

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It's good to be here.

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Thanks for having me.

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And I'm especially happy to have you because you're sharing your experience for the very

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first time and I feel honored.

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That's right.

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Yeah.

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Well, the first time publicly, yeah, for sure.

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Yeah, first time publicly.

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And also because you're a listener of the podcast and so, hey, we love having our listeners

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on and love communicating back and forth.

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You sent me an email outlining your experience.

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This is going to be interesting, everybody.

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Hold onto your hats.

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It's going to be fun.

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Pretty crazy story.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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As you know from listening to the podcast, our listeners want to get to know you just

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briefly for a minute.

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And I know you've done some secret stuff.

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Don't talk about anything that you shouldn't.

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Tell us a little bit about John.

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Yeah, so there's a reason why I haven't spoken publicly before.

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And that's because, as you saw, I was a federal employee.

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I held a high-level clearance in the federal government, retired in January.

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And I've been wanting to tell this story because part of why I think people have these experiences,

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they want to share them with other people for certain reasons.

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And I've always wanted to do it, and I didn't feel comfortable doing it up until now.

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I'm going to sort of get into my origin story a little bit because it does play into my

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experience, I think.

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That's the conclusion I've come to.

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I grew up in New York, a very strict Catholic upbringing.

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My father was a violent person.

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He was abusive physically and psychologically to both my brother and I.

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And just never had a good relationship with him growing up.

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Neither did my brother.

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I mean, he would take his belt off and hit you with it.

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I mean, he almost knocked me out one time.

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He did terrible things like that.

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And then the psychological abuse, which is probably worse, really got to my brother.

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But I sort of never let it really get to me.

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And I always fantasized about getting out of my house.

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That was my goal in life, was to get away.

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And that's why I joined the military right out of high school.

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I didn't have the money or the grades for college.

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The Navy took me, of course.

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I got orders to Hawaii.

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So I got as far away from my old life as I could and did well enough in school.

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I was in the Navy to pick my orders.

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I was in the top 10 in my class and I was dating a girl.

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We were talking about getting engaged.

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We both picked Pearl Harbor as our first duty station, which is great.

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We went there together, you know, after about six or seven months, I come to find out that

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she was seeing a friend of mine.

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That relationship ended.

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And I mentioned that because I hadn't really got to know anyone else there very well.

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I wasn't really hanging out with anybody, but my girlfriend slash fiance at the time.

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So were you living on base?

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I was living on base, living in the barracks.

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Yeah, I kind of went inward.

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I've always been sort of a very introverted type of person.

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I think that's another reason why I haven't spoken about this publicly is it's a very

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difficult thing for me to do.

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I'm a private person.

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Join the club, John.

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So you understand.

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So I reverted back to something I used to do in my childhood.

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I would go to the library and that was sort of my safe place.

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And I would love to read books about sharks and the war, war two and all kinds of stuff

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like that.

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And I would spend hours in the library and we happened to have a really good library

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on the base.

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So I would, I started going there and I was going through the book, not really sure what

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I was looking for.

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I was a very spiritual person, grew up in a religious household.

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I kind of started shying away from Catholicism, but was always a very spiritual guy.

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And I found this book on auto hypnosis or self hypnosis and it really caught my eye.

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Check the book out.

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And it had this method for how to basically how to hypnotize yourself.

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It's a form of meditation.

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And so I took the book and I was going through this process for a couple of months.

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I lived with a guy in the barracks who never left.

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So we were two people in the small room.

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We had no privacy.

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So I would go in the, I would take these old, you've seen these old wool gray wool blankets

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with the U S written on them.

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I'm sure you've probably seen those.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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So I'm, I'm picturing you kind of made a tent around your bed with those hanging down

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from his bed.

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Exactly.

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Right.

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So let's ask one thing before you get, cause you're jumping right into it, which is, which

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is great.

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Did you know anything about near death experiences prior to this time?

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No, prior to this time, my relationship with death was that I really didn't have one.

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It was based on my, my Catholic upbringing.

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So I didn't really, we didn't really talk about it.

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It's one of the things that was, you know, the way, the way we handle death in this country,

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I find to be a bit strange.

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It's a very clinical, corporate way of handling death, but actually fit really well in with

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Catholicism because the church played a part in that.

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And you would have funerals at the church and then, you know, you go to the cemetery

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and stuff like that.

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So I had not heard about NDE's and I didn't have a really healthy relationship with death.

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I would say at that time compared to how things have evolved for me at this point.

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So no, didn't really know anything about NDE's.

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Okay.

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So anyway, you, you made yourself a private space here in the barracks.

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Yeah.

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So that you could meditate, self-hitmatize, keep going.

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So this is 1991.

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I'll back up a little bit.

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So just to give you your younger listeners a frame of reference.

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Are you saying I'm not?

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Okay.

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I'm sorry to interrupt.

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Don't keep going.

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No, no, it's okay.

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So I had a phone card because cell phones weren't really a thing yet.

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And in order for me to call from Hawaii to New York, I would buy these phone cards so

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I can call home.

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Yeah.

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For the young listeners, there used to be a thing called long distance.

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And if you phone very far away, you had to pay for it.

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And one way to do that was a phone card.

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Yeah.

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That's right.

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That's right.

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And yeah, so that's how I communicated with my mother back home.

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I didn't really communicate with my father very much.

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Again, just, I get an example of sort of how, what it was like the day I left for the Navy,

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we had to go to Fort Dixon, New Jersey.

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That's where everybody's sort of on the East Coast, Northeast area goes to in process for

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the military.

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The day I left, my father refused to let my mother say goodbye to me or hug me goodbye.

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And I can remember my recruiter actually had to come pick me up to take me to Fort Dixon

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because my father refused to do it.

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So I'm trying to paint a picture of what our relationship was like, what kind of person

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he was, you know, what his reasoning was for doing that.

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I'm still not sure to this day, but I can remember walking out of the house and him

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holding my mother back and her crying her eyes out and getting in the car.

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And I got in the car and this, my theme song was become my theme song was Steve Miller

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band was a jet airliner just started playing on the radio.

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Oh yeah.

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Big old jet airliner.

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Yeah.

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It kind of came my song.

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Coming to take you away.

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That's right.

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That's right.

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And I heard that.

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I was like, wow, that's, that's funny.

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Back in Hawaii, I used to make this tent with my bed just to have a little bit of privacy.

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And I had a disc man again to date myself.

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A disc.

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We used to have CDs.

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You'd listen to music on and you have a player called a disc man.

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You would put the disc in and wear headphones.

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That's how you listen to music.

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Okay.

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I've got to date myself now.

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Okay.

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I had an original Walkman with a cassette in it.

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Yeah.

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But I used to use when I was running and working out and stuff like that.

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So a disc man that was like, wow, CDs.

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So we're talking 30, what, 33 years ago now.

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So I got it, I got in my bed and I was listening to a Japanese composer called Kataro and he

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does sort of new agey Japanese style new age music.

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And he's done some stuff for, for movies and I just really enjoyed it.

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And I'm laying in bed, put my headphones on, finding the music that I can kind of fits

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my mood at the time.

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I start going through this self hypnosis process.

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I'm not going to go deeply into that, but there's a method to hypnotize yourself.

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And I had been doing it for a couple of months and I'd gotten pretty adept at it.

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But the, the gist of it is you start at the top of your head and you work your way down

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to your feet and you repeat a word.

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My word was relax and you really focus on feeling your body and relaxing all of your

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muscles from your head down to your feet.

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And I got to the point where I could do it pretty quickly.

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If you'd like anything else with practice, it, it just becomes faster and easier.

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So I'm going through the process and repeating my word, relax, relax, relax.

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I get down to my feet and I am no longer, this, this is going to be hard to explain.

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It's hard to put a lot of this stuff into words as I'm sure you know, that, that ineffable

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quality that comes with these experiences.

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And I want to mention too, I know this is an NDE podcast.

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The difference for this story is I wasn't near death, but the situation and the things

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I experienced were a lot like a lot of other NDE's I've heard about.

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So this, I arrived at this place through meditation.

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It's what we call an OBE, outer body experience.

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Right.

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I'm no longer in my body, but I still feel like John.

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Okay.

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Hang on.

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Was there a process where you felt yourself leave your body?

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I was in my body and then I wasn't in the snap of a finger.

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There was no tunnel, no traveling anywhere.

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I was just in this void and I'm sure you've heard this plenty of times.

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It was a completely dark void.

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I was, the best way to describe it is I was pure consciousness floating in space.

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And it was just this vast darkness.

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There was no fear.

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There was none of the human emotions we associate with ourselves.

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There was no sense of time, no fear, no anxiety.

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I was just pure presence, pure consciousness.

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And it was the realest thing I've ever experienced.

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That is a difficult thing for people to comprehend, I think, where this life doesn't seem real.

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That seemed real.

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So I noticed there's some light starting to come in the distance, is starting to light

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up a little bit, sort of like a spotlight during a foggy day, kind of had that quality

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to it, that misty kind of quality.

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And I see this pinprick of light off in the distance, which would be to my left slightly.

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My attention is immediately drawn to this light, and it starts getting bigger and bigger,

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probably the size of a football or something, but still off in the distance.

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And I was drawn to this light.

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I wanted to go to the light.

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I just felt this magnetic pull.

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And the best way to describe the light, it was extremely bright, but you could look at

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it.

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So it wasn't like staring at the sun.

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You could look at it and it didn't hurt your eyes, and it gave off this light like a, like

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if you ever see a light shined or shown through a diamond, these facets, it kind of looked

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like that.

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And it carried emotion with it.

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You could feel emotion in the light, acceptance and love and just this pure feeling of belonging.

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And I was just completely awestruck looking at this light.

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And then off to my right, there is this being shaped like a human.

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It felt like a male presence.

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I don't know how to explain, you know, that I knew it was a male energy.

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I just knew somehow.

243
00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:44,400
And it was shaped like a human, but completely made of light, like a yellowish golden swirling

244
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,120
light.

245
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:47,680
And I felt like I knew this being.

246
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:50,120
I felt like I'd always known this being.

247
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,280
Again, this feeling of belonging and familiarity.

248
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,160
And I'm staring at this being.

249
00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:03,360
I'm staring is the right word because I wasn't, I was just this consciousness.

250
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,280
And he told me, I guess telepathically is the best way to describe it.

251
00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,480
He didn't have a face or a mouth.

252
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:15,360
He said, in this very calming voice, your father's going to die.

253
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:20,880
And just as quick as I entered this space, I was back in my body.

254
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:21,880
Okay.

255
00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:22,880
Yeah.

256
00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:23,880
Let's stop there.

257
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:24,880
Okay.

258
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:26,400
Because that's going to be sort of chapter two.

259
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:27,840
Okay, sure.

260
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:29,520
What happens after that?

261
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,560
And that is a cliffhanger, by the way.

262
00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:33,720
I like it.

263
00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,240
Tell me about the void.

264
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:40,120
I've heard people say it's dark and black and full of nothing.

265
00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:45,520
And others tell me it's dark and black and full of energy and fills completely full.

266
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,240
What did you feel about it?

267
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:51,440
So I guess the best way to describe it in the movie, The Matrix, I'm sure you'd seen

268
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,440
it hopefully, there's a scene when Neo is first taken out of the matrix and he goes

269
00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,120
to the loading program.

270
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,680
And it's just this white room of nothingness.

271
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:06,480
It reminded me of that, but it was dark, but I could see.

272
00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:07,840
That's the strange thing.

273
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,680
It was this vast space.

274
00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:16,600
And then it was completely dark, but I could see because then the light, I'm assuming,

275
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:17,600
was God's light.

276
00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,320
I don't know how else to describe it.

277
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:21,720
It just felt very comfortable.

278
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,400
I wasn't afraid.

279
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:31,520
There was no human emotion or human point of reference to attach to it.

280
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,880
There was no time.

281
00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:38,360
It was just this void, but it felt like there was something there.

282
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,960
There was an energy there that you could feel.

283
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:42,160
It's very difficult to explain.

284
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,280
And you mentioned not feeling regular human emotions.

285
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:50,840
See, I would think if I were in some kind of a dark void, that'd be scary.

286
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:52,560
There would be fear.

287
00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,160
Did you feel any of that?

288
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:55,160
No fear.

289
00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:56,160
No fear.

290
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:57,160
Curiosity.

291
00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:58,160
I would say curiosity.

292
00:15:58,160 --> 00:15:59,160
Okay.

293
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,560
Where am I and what is happening right now?

294
00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:08,360
And it's interesting to me also that it felt really big because when it's super dark, you

295
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:14,120
don't know if you're in a two by two cubicle or the immenseness of the universe.

296
00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:15,120
Right.

297
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:16,440
It was definitely big.

298
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,560
And then I could, once this light appeared, it didn't stop very quickly.

299
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:27,480
It was this gradient of light, this white light and then this gradient kind of filtered

300
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:28,480
down through the space.

301
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:32,600
And I could see there was nothing there until that being showed up, that light.

302
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:33,600
Yeah.

303
00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:34,600
Okay.

304
00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,160
Were there any other beings that you observed or just the one?

305
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:38,440
Just the one.

306
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,400
And the only communication was about your father?

307
00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:42,560
That's right.

308
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:47,240
Did you feel anything that was not communicated?

309
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:48,240
Yeah.

310
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,560
Just like I said, I felt like I'd known this being forever.

311
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,480
How that is, I don't know.

312
00:16:54,480 --> 00:17:02,800
I'm assuming wherever we come from before we come to Earth, this sounds very strange

313
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,600
to hear myself say that, but I don't know how else to describe it.

314
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,400
I felt like wherever we were before, we were always there together.

315
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:11,400
Okay.

316
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:12,400
That's interesting.

317
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:17,600
Like there was just this feeling of acceptance, this feeling of, I just knew who this being

318
00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:18,600
was.

319
00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:19,600
I knew this being.

320
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,800
And you had for a long time, it sounds like.

321
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:22,800
Exactly.

322
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:27,320
I've always known this being, he was always part of my existence.

323
00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:33,520
My last question on this part, as you said something about the feeling that you had there

324
00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,400
was that it was more real than it is here.

325
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,120
Please explain that some more.

326
00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:39,200
I'll do my best.

327
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,720
So I never said this would be easy.

328
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:49,200
You know how many times I've told myself this story and I remember it like it happened yesterday.

329
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:50,400
That's the other thing about it.

330
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,480
It's so clearly imprinted in my mind.

331
00:17:53,480 --> 00:18:01,480
I can't tell you what I did last Friday, but I can describe this like it just happened.

332
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,040
So I think that's another really interesting thing.

333
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:09,000
Being able to bring that back from wherever I came back from.

334
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:14,080
It's one of the things that separates it from, say, let's say you just fell asleep on your

335
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,400
cot there and had a dream.

336
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:18,400
Yeah.

337
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:19,400
Yeah.

338
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,200
It would be like that real now.

339
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:26,080
You would not, I mean, I certainly don't remember dreams from years ago.

340
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:27,080
Yeah.

341
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:28,080
Exactly.

342
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:29,800
So keep going with the more real.

343
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:30,800
Yeah.

344
00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:37,000
The best way I think to describe it would be if you picture yourself wearing a human suit,

345
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:43,400
taking that suit off and your consciousness releasing, there was just a clarity.

346
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:50,960
Because the other thing, aside from my sight, there were really no other human senses involved.

347
00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:52,320
I couldn't feel anything.

348
00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,560
Like there was no tactile feel.

349
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,880
Like right now my hands are cold for some reason.

350
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,960
It's really cold where I live right now.

351
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:00,280
There was none of that.

352
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,880
And there was no need to hear because whatever this being told me, I could hear it in my

353
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,800
mind.

354
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,280
That's another thing that's really difficult to explain.

355
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:16,840
Just the clarity of vision and being able to sense everything at once without having

356
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:20,760
the senses we have now in our bodies.

357
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:21,760
There was no need for that.

358
00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:28,480
And it was just this pure, clean, exposed consciousness floating in space.

359
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:32,360
Just remember the clarity of it, the cleanness of it.

360
00:19:32,360 --> 00:19:36,280
It's like looking through a, I've heard somebody say, a filmy screen.

361
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,520
I can't remember what book that was from.

362
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:43,200
That's the best way I can describe it is just being stripped of the confines of a human

363
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:44,200
body.

364
00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,280
If you could picture that, that's what it felt like.

365
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:49,280
Interesting.

366
00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:50,280
Yeah.

367
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,800
Now you were told, tell me the exact words again.

368
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:55,440
Your father's going to die?

369
00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:57,720
Your father's going to die.

370
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,080
You had a bad relationship with your father.

371
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,080
I did.

372
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,400
So did you feel anything from that?

373
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,600
Like oh no, or oh yes, or?

374
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,440
Yeah, I was terrified.

375
00:20:09,440 --> 00:20:16,120
When I, there's a lot more to this in chapter two, but at that moment when I woke, I think

376
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:24,400
woke up, when I was back in my body in the stream of consciousness, I currently am in.

377
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:25,640
I freaked out.

378
00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,520
I didn't know what to make of it.

379
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:33,200
It was just, and I'm a pretty pragmatic logical human being.

380
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:38,840
So to experience something like that and not have any way to explain it, it did, I was

381
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:43,680
scared, but fear isn't really a good way to describe it.

382
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:45,480
I just, I was confused.

383
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,560
I didn't know what had just happened.

384
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,200
Well, that makes sense.

385
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,000
This has never happened to you before, or anybody that you know.

386
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:54,000
No.

387
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,360
Okay, proceed with chapter two.

388
00:20:56,360 --> 00:21:03,080
So I jump, I pull my headphones up, I jump out of my bed, my roommate kind of jumps back

389
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:04,480
and looks at me.

390
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:10,560
I start just kind of incoherently babbling, looking for my phone card, because my first

391
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,600
thought was I need to call my mother.

392
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:14,560
I need to warn her.

393
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,400
Like I need to warn her, you know, you need to hear the story.

394
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:23,560
You need to do, take action, because I fully believed what I was told, by the way.

395
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:29,560
It wasn't like, ah, that, you know, I believed what I was told was true.

396
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,400
Did you have any idea how long it would be before he would die?

397
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:34,400
No idea.

398
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:35,600
No idea.

399
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,480
So he's going to die, could be in five minutes or five years.

400
00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:40,480
Right.

401
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:45,400
Well, and that's the one thing all human beings share, no matter how poor or rich you are,

402
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:47,720
how famous or anything.

403
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,640
The one thing that bonds all people together is death.

404
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:51,640
And birth.

405
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:57,960
The fact that you are going to die someday, I am going to die someday, it is, you know,

406
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,240
it's the not knowing when, right, that's the key, is not knowing when you're going to

407
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:03,360
die.

408
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:05,760
And I had no idea when he was going to die, but I knew it would happen.

409
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:11,840
But there was more of a sense of urgency, I'll say that, to being told this, you know, like,

410
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:14,960
hey, you know, I need to do something about this if I can.

411
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:19,120
Well, and you wouldn't get that kind of a message if it was 40 years off.

412
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:21,400
That wouldn't make any sense at all.

413
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,400
It was obviously going to be a short time.

414
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:24,400
Right.

415
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:25,400
Of course he's going to die.

416
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:26,400
Yeah.

417
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:27,400
Right.

418
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,440
But the word that was left off was soon.

419
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,560
But that's what you believed.

420
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:33,560
Okay.

421
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:34,560
Yeah.

422
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:42,000
And we can get into the nuances of that here in a little bit, the why behind it and how

423
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:44,680
did they know?

424
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:46,960
How did these beings know this was going to happen?

425
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:48,880
So we talked about that in chapter two.

426
00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:56,600
So I find my phone card and at the end of the hall, it was the call of Allah and I and

427
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,320
why it's like a porch that ran around the whole building.

428
00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:00,480
It was a three story building.

429
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:02,640
It used to be a hospital in World War II.

430
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:04,800
It was now a barracks.

431
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,680
I run to the end of the hall where there's a bank of pay phones.

432
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:12,560
Again, to date myself, not something you see anymore.

433
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,400
And the way the phone card worked is you would pick it up and there was a code.

434
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:21,400
You'd punch this code in the state code, then the phone number and luckily my mother

435
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:22,720
picked up.

436
00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,560
So you have to imagine what she was experiencing.

437
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,840
They were in the process of moving to Pennsylvania.

438
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,080
They had the house half packed up.

439
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:33,760
So she's busy.

440
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:39,960
The phone rings out of the blue and it's her son who's a few thousand miles away in Hawaii

441
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,960
in a complete mode of panic.

442
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:47,280
And I said, mom, something just happened and I told her the story the best I could.

443
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:48,720
And she didn't know.

444
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:53,440
I mean, in all fairness, how do you respond to something like that?

445
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,840
She tried immediately started trying to rationalize it.

446
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,760
Well, you probably was just a dream or bubble.

447
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:58,960
I said, well, you need to tell dad.

448
00:23:58,960 --> 00:23:59,880
He needs to go back.

449
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:01,200
He just had to check up.

450
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:02,560
He's fine.

451
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:03,520
Don't worry about it.

452
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,960
And she just immediately started talking me down and blowing me off.

453
00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,440
I said, OK, is dad there?

454
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,560
And she says to put him on the phone.

455
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:13,320
I got on the phone.

456
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,920
I said, told him the same story.

457
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,600
I said, you need to go to the doctor.

458
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:18,880
So I just was at the doctor.

459
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:19,440
I'm fine.

460
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,920
Don't worry about me.

461
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,040
And they just didn't want to hear what I had to say.

462
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,040
What else can you do?

463
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,040
Nothing.

464
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,400
If I was to tell you the same thing on one on one hand logically

465
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,520
as a logical human being, you know, you're going to die.

466
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:41,720
But, you know, of course, you know, just the when that's that's what we don't know.

467
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:48,720
So we talked for a little while and I hung up.

468
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,680
And I had a friend there named Jerry, who is a very spiritual guy,

469
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,240
was a Christian, a boarding and Christian, but he was very open minded,

470
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,640
very spiritual kind of person.

471
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,320
And we'd gotten pretty close.

472
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,080
And I said, I need to talk to you.

473
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:08,800
And this is going to sound crazy, but I have to tell somebody who will at least

474
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:14,040
be open minded enough to hear me and maybe make some sense of it.

475
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:18,520
So I told him the story and, you know, he was amazed.

476
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,560
And he said, you know, God spoke to you and he put it in a Christian.

477
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,360
Sent in a Christian sense, which is what he understood.

478
00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:28,440
You know, he packaged it and they're nothing against religion.

479
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,120
I am not a religious adherent to any religions anymore.

480
00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:36,320
But that's how he he put it into the terms that he could understand

481
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,080
and relay those back to me.

482
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,920
So I said, OK.

483
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:45,240
And I tried to.

484
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:49,240
Understand what had happened and integrate that somehow into my experience

485
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,880
and into my life, and I couldn't stop thinking about it.

486
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:54,000
It was always there.

487
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:56,120
And I still I think about it all the time still.

488
00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:58,320
And this is in nineteen and eighty one.

489
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,160
It's I think about it all the time.

490
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,520
There's probably not a day that goes by.

491
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:06,120
I don't think about it because it has changed my life.

492
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:08,000
About a month goes by.

493
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,080
I got to know some guys that I was working with.

494
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:17,960
We decided we were going to rent a house out in Ewa Beach in Hawaii.

495
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,600
And there's a process there for doing that because you have to get approval

496
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:21,920
from the military.

497
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,600
They give you money to live off base.

498
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:30,840
So it took probably another month for us to find a place and get all the paperwork done.

499
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,720
And this was in March.

500
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:39,800
My birthday is in March, which is another reason it's it seemed interesting.

501
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,000
So it was my first weekend moving into this place.

502
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,880
And I didn't have we didn't have any phones yet.

503
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:47,720
We didn't have any of that stuff set up.

504
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,280
The only people who knew where I was was at our personnel department

505
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:53,080
because that's where I filed the paperwork.

506
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,480
Because you have to put an address on it with the amount of the rent

507
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,120
and what would have been my portion of the rent.

508
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:04,200
So we go to the place and it was you know what twenty, twenty one years old,

509
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,440
something like that, a young guy living in a house with a bunch of other dudes.

510
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,200
And it was like a dream come true, you know.

511
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,040
And I went to work.

512
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,640
So this is about two months later.

513
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,440
That's my best recollection of the time frame.

514
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,600
I go to work on Monday and my supervisor.

515
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,280
As soon as I got there, he said, hey, I need to talk to you.

516
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,000
So OK, what's up?

517
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:27,640
Because come here.

518
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,320
And he took me in this back room and there were two chairs there.

519
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,560
It was the only thing in the room with these two chairs facing each other.

520
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,160
I was like, what's what is going on here?

521
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:37,080
He said, I need to talk to you.

522
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:38,320
Sit down.

523
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,840
And he said, I got some bad news for you.

524
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:41,480
And I looked at him.

525
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,640
I said, my father died.

526
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,240
He said, yeah.

527
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,200
And I immediately started to cry.

528
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,720
This was two months after your experience?

529
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,120
About about two months.

530
00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:52,800
Yeah. OK.

531
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:53,360
To me, too.

532
00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:57,960
Yeah, it's hard to remember exactly the lot going on at that time.

533
00:27:57,960 --> 00:27:59,840
Two to three months, I would say.

534
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,440
Nobody could get ahold of me because I didn't have a cell phone.

535
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,200
I didn't have a phone at the house yet, like a landline.

536
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,000
And that was another thing from when you were.

537
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,280
Most older older guys, you know, you'd have a phone in a room.

538
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,200
That was the phone, right?

539
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,160
It had a cord attached to the wall.

540
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:16,320
Not a cord. Yeah.

541
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,520
Look, hopefully it was long and you could take it in your room,

542
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,080
have a little bit of privacy.

543
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:24,400
So he looked at me like wondering if I had already known.

544
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:26,760
I didn't go into that with him.

545
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:27,640
I started crying.

546
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:33,280
And I was like, man, you know, this is it immediately hit me.

547
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,640
The weight of this experience.

548
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:37,880
It blew.

549
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:39,280
I don't know how to describe.

550
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,320
I thought it blew my mind.

551
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,360
And I immediately started thinking, what?

552
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:45,840
This doesn't make any sense.

553
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:46,520
What happened?

554
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:47,920
How did this happen?

555
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:49,000
I just started going crazy.

556
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,520
I didn't know what to do.

557
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,920
So obviously I get my mom on the phone.

558
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,640
Yes, she died the other day.

559
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:57,840
And he'd been dead for a while.

560
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,440
I think he died on a Saturday and I didn't find out until Monday.

561
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,280
So, you know, she's like, we couldn't get ahold of you.

562
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,360
I'm sorry.

563
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,440
And I said, well, what happened?

564
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:13,760
He was bringing an outboard engine for a boat to his friend's house.

565
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,080
And he's sitting at a stoplight.

566
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,200
He had his old station wagon.

567
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,480
And there was a police officer in the lane, not next to him,

568
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,440
but sort of the lane that would cross where he would have gone.

569
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,600
Sitting there at the red light, he just happened to be watching my father.

570
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:30,440
The light turned green.

571
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,360
My father started to go, slumped over on the steering wheel

572
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:35,360
and hit a telephone pole.

573
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:36,240
Not at a high speed.

574
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,000
He just kind of bumped it and he was dead.

575
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,080
Come to find out it was the widowmaker.

576
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:48,800
He had a 95% occlusion of this widowmaker artery.

577
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:49,920
And he died instantly.

578
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,240
It was instant cardiac death.

579
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,000
You know, so I'm just feeling dizzy.

580
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,920
And, you know, if you could imagine, my father just died.

581
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,600
I've now got to get go to the personnel office.

582
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,080
I've got to get orders cut.

583
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,320
I've got to get plane tickets.

584
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,200
I've got to fly home and bury my father.

585
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:12,400
And in that time, I had been, I started going to night school,

586
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,440
working on my degree.

587
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,360
I would write letters home to both my parents.

588
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:22,040
And I wanted my, I really wanted my father's approval

589
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:23,240
because I never felt like I had that.

590
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:30,440
I never felt like I could be the person he wanted me to be.

591
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:35,280
I had this thought that everything I had been doing in my life up to that point

592
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:40,120
as an adult was to try and please my father.

593
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,480
And I realized I wasn't living for myself.

594
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,280
That was a realization that I took from that.

595
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:51,360
And I kind of felt lost because I needed to figure out what it is I wanted to do for myself

596
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:52,800
and not to try to please.

597
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,400
Because, you know, even if you have a bad relationship with your parent,

598
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:56,960
you still want to please your parent.

599
00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,360
You want your parents' approval.

600
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,320
Every child does.

601
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,160
Is this one of those weird coincidences?

602
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,040
I was walking to the personnel office and I had to go through this gate.

603
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,320
And who is coming from the personnel office but my friend Jerry,

604
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:13,520
the guy I had told about this.

605
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,360
And he could tell I was distraught and he said,

606
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:16,440
you're all right, man, what's going on?

607
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:17,440
I said, I have to fly home.

608
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,040
My father died.

609
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:20,320
And he didn't say anything.

610
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,600
He just stared at me with his mouth open.

611
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:24,040
And I said, I have to go.

612
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:24,960
And I kept walking.

613
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,840
I looked back and he was still staring at me with his mouth open

614
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:33,360
because he was now sharing this experience with me.

615
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:37,080
And as much as he thinks he could rationalize it through his beliefs

616
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,440
and Christianity, you really, you can't.

617
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:40,720
Right.

618
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,920
There's no, there's no nothing you can learn.

619
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,120
I don't think your mind is just blown.

620
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,600
Totally blown, totally blown.

621
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,160
So I get on the plane.

622
00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,840
I had to go through Chicago back to New York.

623
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,080
I don't remember that.

624
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,480
That time was a blur.

625
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,720
I went to the funeral and he was a veteran.

626
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:08,520
So the VA came out and he had a veteran's funeral.

627
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:09,520
And I had to go back.

628
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:10,520
I had to go back to Hawaii.

629
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:11,400
I was in the military.

630
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,080
I was an adult now.

631
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,800
People relying on me back there couldn't just stay home.

632
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,840
And I was only home for a few days, four or five days maybe.

633
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:25,880
Got back to Hawaii and just tried to integrate this the best I could.

634
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,600
And I had a really hard time with it.

635
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,760
Because like I said, I didn't know who I was.

636
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:34,480
I didn't, living a life trying to show my father I was worthy.

637
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:36,880
So I had to reevaluate my entire life.

638
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,480
And I kind of went off the deep end for a while.

639
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,760
Started drinking heavily and partying and kind of going crazy

640
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,320
until I kind of figured things out and straightened things out.

641
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,280
OK, let me ask you a couple other questions at this point.

642
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:50,880
Yeah.

643
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,760
You had told your mom a couple of months earlier, hey, dad's

644
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:59,400
going to die when you got back and were with family and stuff.

645
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,560
Did she ever bring that up again?

646
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,120
Was it rough emotionally for her to deal with that?

647
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,680
So you have to remember they were in the process of moving.

648
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,200
So now her husband's dead.

649
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,280
And they've got a house picked out.

650
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:14,400
They've got to continue.

651
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:15,200
She's got to continue.

652
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:16,880
I have to continue with my life.

653
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,840
She's got to continue with her life and carry on by herself.

654
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:21,520
And she had no help.

655
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:22,720
So that never came up.

656
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,600
There was just too much stuff going on, too much stuff

657
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,880
we had to do for the funeral and all this other stuff.

658
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,680
So that never came up.

659
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,600
It was always in the back of my mind.

660
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:36,080
And maybe that's better, because I

661
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:38,240
would have hated for her to feel some guilt.

662
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,160
Like, hey, I was warned and I didn't twist his arm enough

663
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,440
to get him to go to the doctor or something.

664
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:45,320
Yeah.

665
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:46,840
And the same with you.

666
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,080
You did all you could do.

667
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,520
You couldn't make your dad go to the doctor.

668
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,160
So if I could, this thought just occurred to me.

669
00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:00,400
After I had this experience and talked to my father

670
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,880
after I heard about it or told him what I had heard or

671
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,640
experienced, we started talking.

672
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,840
And we had a terrible relationship.

673
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:14,320
And he told me, I'm going to try not to get emotional.

674
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,560
I called him back a little while later.

675
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,520
And he said, I had these pictures taken

676
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,120
when I was in boot camp of me in my uniform.

677
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:27,520
And he said, sorry.

678
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,000
He said, I have coffee with your picture every morning.

679
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,520
He apologized.

680
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,960
And I'm sorry.

681
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,120
I knew this was going to happen.

682
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:42,800
He apologized for how he treated me my whole life.

683
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:48,920
And we were able to reconcile to some extent.

684
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,160
And I think that was the whole point.

685
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:52,520
That's awesome.

686
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:52,800
Yeah.

687
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,720
We were able to finally have a relationship of some sort

688
00:34:57,720 --> 00:34:59,120
that was positive.

689
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,560
Because he told me when I left, you'll be back in six months.

690
00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,600
You will fail.

691
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:06,120
And that just made me want to do better.

692
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:08,640
That made me want to be even more successful.

693
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:09,600
We did reconcile.

694
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,360
We talked a lot in that time period.

695
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,960
The only thing that really makes sense about why this happened,

696
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:21,600
and this is the tough part to really logically think through,

697
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,760
would I have had this experience had I not

698
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,520
taken that book out at the library,

699
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:30,480
had I not taught myself how to hypnotize myself,

700
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:31,400
would this have happened?

701
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,280
Would I have been in the time and the place,

702
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:40,880
in the mental state to enter this realm, had I not done that?

703
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,640
And if you want to go even a layer deeper,

704
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,800
was I drawn to that book?

705
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,240
I don't know.

706
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:50,480
It all seems a little bit too coincidental.

707
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,560
And if I think about it over the last 30-something years.

708
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,280
And of course, the question I have still that I can't answer

709
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:03,920
is these beings, I don't know what to call it, God, my spirit

710
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,600
guide, whatever, I don't know what to call it,

711
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,880
without sounding too like, you know,

712
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,560
crystaly hippy woo-woo kind of thing.

713
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,440
Because you saw my background.

714
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,080
You know where I've come from.

715
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:17,640
What I did for a living.

716
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,040
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

717
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,520
I live the life you want to live if it makes you happy.

718
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:22,480
That's fine.

719
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,080
Well, you did criminal investigations, right?

720
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:25,920
I did.

721
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:26,440
Yeah.

722
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:27,240
OK.

723
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:30,360
That lends a lot of credibility to what you're talking about

724
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,680
here, because those people deal in facts.

725
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,800
They don't deal in hearsay and woo-woo and whatever.

726
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:37,960
That's right.

727
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,200
Yeah, I went to law enforcement after the Navy.

728
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,600
I met my wife and didn't want to be a military guy anymore,

729
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,160
because I wanted to be with my wife and started applying

730
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:47,840
for jobs.

731
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,760
And Baltimore Police Department was the first one that took me.

732
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,800
And I wasn't itching to be a cop.

733
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,800
It's not something I always wanted to do, but I needed a job.

734
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,960
And it went from there.

735
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,040
I did that for 27 years.

736
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,720
I wound up in the federal government eventually after 9-11.

737
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:08,360
But yeah, like I said, a very pragmatic, serious kind

738
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,000
of existence, professional existence dealing

739
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,120
with I did digital forensics for a while.

740
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:17,120
So I did a lot of child exploitation work, very serious

741
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,240
work, very logical, very fact driven.

742
00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:27,320
That sort of was my mindset over the last 27 years.

743
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:33,120
But the question remains, how did these beings know?

744
00:37:33,120 --> 00:37:39,280
Was God taking my father at that time for a specific reason?

745
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,920
Or did they know he was clogging and he was going to die

746
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:42,880
no matter what?

747
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,960
Somehow these beings could see either into the future

748
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:49,640
or that was his plan.

749
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,040
That was his path.

750
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:55,400
He was going to die at 47 of a massive heart attack.

751
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,160
And that's the question I can't answer,

752
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,920
is how did they know?

753
00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:02,840
And could it have been avoided?

754
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:03,920
I don't think so.

755
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:05,840
I don't think that was the reason I was told this.

756
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,240
I think the reason I was told this

757
00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:10,920
was so I could have reconciled with my father before he died.

758
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:12,160
I agree with you.

759
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:12,800
Yeah.

760
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,640
Earlier you mentioned that in that void,

761
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,200
you felt no time and space.

762
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:20,320
No time.

763
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:20,800
Right.

764
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,480
No time.

765
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,880
Now you just now you referred to how

766
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,160
did they know something in the future?

767
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:31,000
If there's no time, you see where I'm going here.

768
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:32,080
Yes.

769
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,760
How hard is it to look into what we call the future?

770
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,680
How, why would that be a problem for them to know?

771
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:42,160
Just because it's our future doesn't mean it's theirs.

772
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:43,160
Yes.

773
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,960
The thing is, when we're in these bodies,

774
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,840
we're constricted to three dimensions.

775
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,080
We think in three dimensions.

776
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,640
We live our life by our senses, what we could see and touch

777
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,080
and feel.

778
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,480
And I think that's something that's really difficult

779
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,360
for people to grasp is the possibility

780
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,480
that there are beings that exist in more than three

781
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:04,240
dimensions.

782
00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:08,120
If you've just seen the movie, what was the name of that movie?

783
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:11,040
With Matthew McConaughey, where he goes to space.

784
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,080
Can't remember the name of it.

785
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,240
But yeah, they talk about that where these beings existed

786
00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:19,640
in five dimensions, which allows them to not control time,

787
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,680
but see through time.

788
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,200
So I don't know the answer.

789
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,800
I'm not saying that's what I believe or that's the answer.

790
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,120
All I'm saying is somehow they knew.

791
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,600
I don't know how.

792
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,800
And they gave me this message, I think,

793
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:34,880
so I could reconcile with my father before he died.

794
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,240
I think this is why this whole thing happened.

795
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:40,440
But it completely changed the trajectory of my life.

796
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,240
I did suppress this, by the way, for a while, probably

797
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:45,880
about 10 years.

798
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:47,760
I forgot about it.

799
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,080
I willingly forgot about it.

800
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,040
I didn't want to deal with it.

801
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,040
I didn't have time for it.

802
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,520
And one day, it just kind of reared its head again

803
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:58,880
and said, you're going to deal with this.

804
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,360
And for probably the last 20 years,

805
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:06,760
I've been reading everything I hands on about NDE's

806
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:11,360
Dr. Moody's stuff, podcasts, YouTube videos, you name it.

807
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:16,880
I've been just ingesting it for a long, long time.

808
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:18,720
And it's become a part of my life.

809
00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:22,000
And like I said, in my email to you, I actually,

810
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,800
this is what got me to contact you.

811
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:28,280
You had somebody on Cali on your show.

812
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:33,400
And the similarities between her experience, not just the NDE,

813
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,280
but her life experience and mine were so similar.

814
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:38,960
I thought, I've got to try and reach out to you.

815
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,600
Was it Cali or Brie?

816
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:40,880
Brie?

817
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:41,480
Was it Brie?

818
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:42,400
Yeah, maybe it was Brie.

819
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:43,040
I'm sorry.

820
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:44,080
I don't know why I came up with that.

821
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:45,920
I believe it was Brie that you're thinking of.

822
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:46,560
OK.

823
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,160
Just recently, yeah.

824
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:49,480
It was recently, yes.

825
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,600
It pushed me to get involved in hospice work.

826
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:55,440
So I became a hospice volunteer.

827
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:59,400
Now, I had an experience with my grandmother.

828
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:00,680
She was 93.

829
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,800
And when you're that age, she got sick and decided

830
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:03,520
that was it.

831
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:04,880
She was done.

832
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,040
Basically, that's what it felt like.

833
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,560
She stopped eating for about three days.

834
00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:12,080
And my mother said, this is it.

835
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,280
So we brought a bed and a apartment built on the house.

836
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,840
We brought a bed in and a hospice nurse.

837
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,360
I got to spend the last two weeks of her life with her,

838
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,560
which was an incredible experience.

839
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,240
Because she said and did things that were equally

840
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:28,960
as intriguing and interesting as what I experienced.

841
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:30,640
And I can tell you about that.

842
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,920
And she was a little, she was from Wales,

843
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,200
just a little tuffled lady lived through World War II,

844
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:37,960
lived through the Depression.

845
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:40,040
They don't make people like that anymore.

846
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,160
And we were very close.

847
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:43,280
I really love my grandmother.

848
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:48,200
And I remember she was about a week into it.

849
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:50,840
She was in this bed, was not eating solid food.

850
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:54,160
She was drinking ginger ale and taking morphine, which

851
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,320
is a common thing that I learned about people on hospice.

852
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:00,640
The goal is to keep them comfortable as they die.

853
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:01,640
That's right.

854
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,280
So she had this big hospital bed.

855
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:04,880
It took up a good portion of the room.

856
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,600
And I remember one day I was standing at the end of the bed.

857
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,280
And at the end of the bed was the bathroom.

858
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:12,080
And she said, don't stand there.

859
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:12,920
So, oh, OK.

860
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:14,320
And she was very adamant about it.

861
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:15,920
I said, why not, grandma?

862
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,440
She said, my brother Dennis is in the bathroom.

863
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:22,040
He died like 20 years before.

864
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:23,560
He'd been long dead.

865
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:25,440
He's in there and he's wearing a funny hat.

866
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:28,240
He keeps poking his hat out, smiling at me.

867
00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:29,120
I said, oh, OK.

868
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:30,760
Sorry, I didn't know.

869
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:32,840
So I went around the bed and I sat on the end of the bed.

870
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,960
She goes, you can't sit there either.

871
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:36,360
I said, well, why not?

872
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:37,920
So that's where the angel sits.

873
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,600
He's waiting for me.

874
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,880
And had I not had the experience I did have,

875
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,240
I probably would have said, OK, grandma, you're just high

876
00:42:45,240 --> 00:42:47,960
as a kite and you're dying, which

877
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,600
is why you think you're seeing this.

878
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:51,400
But I didn't think that.

879
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:55,280
I realized that she had one foot in life and one foot

880
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:55,840
in death.

881
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:59,800
And that happened a long time ago.

882
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:01,440
It was probably 13 years.

883
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,000
And I'd always wanted to get involved in hospice,

884
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:04,880
and I finally did.

885
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,080
And I come to learn that that's a very common thing,

886
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,760
that people who are dying see these things,

887
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,960
they experience these things.

888
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:14,200
It was an incredible experience.

889
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:17,760
I'm glad I got to go through that, share that with her.

890
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,880
Because it's also a very intimate, personal experience

891
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:21,880
as well.

892
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,760
And I wanted to be closer to death,

893
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:30,080
because like I said earlier, I don't agree necessarily

894
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:34,040
with the funerary business, the way it's made into a business,

895
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:38,000
the way it's very cold and impersonal.

896
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:39,680
Death is ugly.

897
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,080
To see somebody waste away when my grandmother,

898
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,080
the day before she died, she lost her ability to speak.

899
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,040
And I remember looking down at her chest

900
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:49,600
and she looked like a baby bird.

901
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,600
You can see her heart beating in her chest.

902
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,480
And I remember, and I hope I don't start getting choked up,

903
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,520
even though I was in law enforcement for 27 years

904
00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,760
and in the military, I am a very sensitive guy,

905
00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,640
prone to cry now and then.

906
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:07,640
So the last thing I said to her, she grabbed my finger

907
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:10,440
and I was talking to her in her ear.

908
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,840
I said, grandma, it's OK to let go.

909
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,640
She squeezed my finger.

910
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:17,680
And I knew because I knew she could still hear me

911
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,920
and her mind was still sharp as a tap right to the very end.

912
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:22,920
Her body was just, she was 93.

913
00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:24,280
It was time for her to go.

914
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,920
And that night she died.

915
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:28,680
So I'm glad I got to experience it with her

916
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:30,040
and be there with her.

917
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,560
And it gave me a completely different outlook on life

918
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,840
and death, what happens when we die.

919
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:40,440
I have no doubt in my mind that you don't just die.

920
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,080
The lights go out and there's nothing else.

921
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,640
Obviously, I think we continue on.

922
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,000
After death, our energy, our soul, whatever you want to call it,

923
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:53,680
goes to wherever this place is, whatever dimension it is.

924
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,440
I can't tell you those things.

925
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:56,320
I don't know.

926
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:57,960
But that's what I believe.

927
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,160
And another interesting note is there

928
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:03,560
is nothing religious about the experience.

929
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:08,000
I have heard NDEs where people say they mean angels or Jesus

930
00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:12,280
or whatever religious figure they're comfortable with.

931
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,120
I didn't experience that.

932
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:15,920
It had nothing to do with it.

933
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:20,200
Except for the love I felt, the peace, that sort of thing.

934
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,440
So like I said, it changed my life.

935
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,800
And I do not fear death.

936
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,480
I mean, obviously, I don't want to suffer.

937
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:28,200
Nobody wants to suffer.

938
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,560
If I had my way, I'd go quick in my sleep

939
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:31,480
or something like that.

940
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,400
But I'm not afraid of what comes next, not at all.

941
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,560
And this experience has been a blessing and a curse.

942
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:40,800
And I'm sure you've heard this before.

943
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:43,800
I'm going to try not to make this sound strange.

944
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:50,360
But when there's really tough days in life and things are hard,

945
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,800
I think I know what's waiting for me.

946
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,960
And sometimes I wish I could go there now.

947
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,040
I wish I could go to that place.

948
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,440
And that's just also based on other NDEs I've heard.

949
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:04,760
People actually going to places, going through the tunnel,

950
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:10,640
going into the light and experiencing this world.

951
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:11,880
It's very intriguing to me.

952
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:16,400
And I don't have faith that this will happen.

953
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,640
I know it with every fiber of my being.

954
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:20,640
I know that when we die, we go somewhere else.

955
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,480
This is not the end.

956
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:27,480
So yeah, it's really completely altered my outlook on things

957
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:29,520
and changed my life completely.

958
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,880
And I wish I could share it with more people

959
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,880
and give them comfort is my goal.

960
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:40,480
And I'll tell you, about 10 years after this happened,

961
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,480
I remember I took a 10-year break from it

962
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,080
because I just couldn't deal with it.

963
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:49,080
I set a meeting up with my mom to get lunch one day.

964
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:53,120
She had remarried, become a fundamentalist Christian.

965
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:56,360
And she was the only person I knew,

966
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,760
aside from Jerry, who I still can't get a hold of for some reason,

967
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:05,200
that knew this had happened, that was involved in the process.

968
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,800
And we went to Applebee's.

969
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,040
And I bought her lunch.

970
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,720
And I finally decided, OK, and how's the time?

971
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:14,480
I said, Mom, I want to talk about this.

972
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,040
Because we didn't talk about it for years.

973
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:21,760
And she broke my heart because she told me, well,

974
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:26,120
you have to be careful because the devil plays tricks on people

975
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:27,600
and went through that whole thing.

976
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,800
And I was like, oh, man.

977
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:32,080
I really wanted to have a meaningful conversation

978
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:32,840
with her about it.

979
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,080
And she just couldn't do it and just told me

980
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,200
that it was probably Satan trying to trick me.

981
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:40,960
And you have to be careful with stuff like that.

982
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,480
And that was the last time I mentioned it to her.

983
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:44,960
We never spoke about it again.

984
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:46,560
I'm sorry that happened.

985
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:47,400
Yeah, me too.

986
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:49,120
Obviously, that's not what it was,

987
00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:52,200
because good things happened because of it.

988
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:52,600
Right.

989
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,720
And it wouldn't be of the devil if something good came of it.

990
00:47:55,720 --> 00:47:56,320
Exactly.

991
00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:57,680
That's my belief.

992
00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:58,160
Yeah.

993
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,280
And that totally makes sense to me.

994
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,680
Jerry, if you're out there someplace, reach out to John.

995
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,240
He wants to talk to you.

996
00:48:05,240 --> 00:48:06,840
Please do, yeah.

997
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,480
John, now that you've had a chance to finally talk

998
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,160
about this publicly, how does it make you feel?

999
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:16,320
It makes me feel like a load has been taken off my shoulders.

1000
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:17,960
It makes me feel a lot freer.

1001
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,360
It's something I've been wanting to do for a very long time.

1002
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,840
And I felt like I couldn't do because of my job.

1003
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:26,840
It took a lot of courage, especially for somebody

1004
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,920
like me who's an introvert who doesn't very person.

1005
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,560
I'm a very private person to share this experience.

1006
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:34,520
But I feel a lot better.

1007
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,000
I feel if you can imagine something

1008
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:38,720
you've been wanting to do for a long, long time,

1009
00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:41,880
finally getting it done, I feel relieved.

1010
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:43,800
I can tell by the smile on your face.

1011
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:44,280
Yeah.

1012
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:46,000
You look relieved.

1013
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,400
You look like.

1014
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:48,400
I really am.

1015
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:50,960
Man, I just carried a camel across the desert.

1016
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:53,880
Now I'm done and I'm getting a big drink.

1017
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,360
It's good to talk about it.

1018
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,640
And especially to somebody who I'm assuming you are a believer,

1019
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,560
I'm assuming you do this because you believe it.

1020
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,520
And I've told this to people.

1021
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,000
And I just, you know, they don't know it.

1022
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:09,000
They don't know how to handle it.

1023
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,560
So to talk to somebody who believes it and understands

1024
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:14,800
it to be true is helpful as well.

1025
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:17,000
Well, thank you for sharing with us.

1026
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:17,840
You bet.

1027
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:19,720
And we do need to wrap up.

1028
00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:21,880
And thank you so much for sharing.

1029
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:24,160
You did a great job, John.

1030
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:25,640
I really appreciate it.

1031
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:26,960
Is there anything else that you wanted

1032
00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:28,440
to leave with the listeners?

1033
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,480
No, just I would say try to be open-minded about

1034
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:36,000
the inevitability of what will happen someday in your life

1035
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,240
and have hope that this is not the end

1036
00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:41,640
and that what you do in this life matters.

1037
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,520
And try to treat people with as much love and respect

1038
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:47,800
as you can and realize that we're all the same,

1039
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:49,760
no matter what somebody might look like or believe

1040
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:51,280
or your sexual orientation.

1041
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:54,640
You know, you treat people how you want to be treated

1042
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,760
and try to be good to people and try to love people

1043
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,360
because I feel in the end that will come back up

1044
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,080
and you'll have to deal with it at some point

1045
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:05,840
and feel those feelings.

1046
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:07,000
Excellent.

1047
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:07,840
Excellent.

1048
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:08,680
Thank you, John.

1049
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:09,520
You bet.

1050
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,000
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.

1051
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,800
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button

1052
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:20,160
and sign up for our newsletter at roundtriptest.com.

1053
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,800
If you want to share your near-death experience

1054
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,200
or if you have questions or comments about the show,

1055
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,760
send an email to eric at roundtriptest.com.

1056
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:30,800
Until then, I wish you everything good

1057
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,760
that you're looking for in this life and the next.