From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
physical body because I was somewhere else.
The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
anything else to be felt.
I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
I'm back home again.
Incredibly safe and felt at home.
Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody.
And I'd like to welcome our special guest today, Lena Zafari.
Zafari.
How close am I?
Very close.
Almost perfect.
Zafari.
Okay, with a Z, Zafari.
I like that.
All right, hey, you know, we are going to jump right into your near-death experience in
just a second.
Okay.
First, I have a couple of questions.
I would love our listeners to get to know you a little bit.
Can you take just one minute and tell us who Lena is?
Do you want to know who Lena is today?
Sure.
And if your background has something to do with that, you can tell us a little bit about
your background as well.
Well, I'm very much, I consider myself very much the same person I've always been in a
weirdest way, but just not much outside of my life has changed, but a lot of my inside
has changed, meaning I'm pretty much a regular person.
I am a mother of three young children.
I am, you know, surrounded by family and friends.
I live in Las Vegas, Nevada.
I am into healing and wellness.
I have a nonprofit that I'm passionate about, that I dedicate a lot of my time into, and
that has to do with actually what we're going to be talking about, which is near-death experiences.
So I am, you know, I'm busy doing everything everybody else is doing, so I'm just a normal
person.
Good.
I don't know if that really answers your question, but I don't know how else to look
at myself because there's so many different layers, you know?
I know, and I didn't give you an hour to explain yourself.
And so you had to just stick with one layer.
I first heard about you the other day because you were doing a presentation for an IONS
group.
And I just loved the title of it, which was, NDEs happen whether you understand them or
not.
Yeah.
And I'm going to add to that, whether you believe them or not, or believe in them or
not, what does that mean?
That they happen whether you know them or believe them or not?
Yeah.
The fact that NDEs happen whether you understand them or not, what does that mean?
It's exactly that.
It's something that happens to a certain percentage of people or for whatever reason,
whether we know about it or not, it just happens.
Life happens and we are put into certain situations or circumstances.
And then we have an experience that completely changes everything about us and what we look
at life.
And it has after effects and things happen.
So whether you understand it or not, you're still going to be put into the washer and
the cycle.
You're still going to go through what people go through having an experience like that.
And people that have had an experience often don't even understand it themselves.
And it can take years to figure it out and to realize, wow, did this really happen?
And what did it really mean?
And why did it happen to me?
And all these other questions seem to come up.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
And that is literally the title of my webinar talk that I did the other night for IYENS
is like, it was so fitting, meaning literally I am a living example of that sentence.
I mean, NDE's happened, whether you know about them or not, or whether you believe them or
not.
I knew nothing of them.
I had no belief one way or another way to have, you know, to make a decision.
And I walked around, well, it turns out I had an NDE at birth.
So I've been living the after effects of an NDE all my life without knowing it or realizing
it.
And then when it happened the second time, I still didn't know about it.
And all of what I was going through all my life just got bumped up and were amplified
and I still didn't know.
And then, you know, eventually, you know, when the change is drastic enough or big enough,
or I guess in my case, since I wasn't getting the hints from the universe, I kind of got
slapped around a few times until I woke up and I realized, okay, hold on, something happened,
what happened?
I know what happened, something happened, but what does it mean?
So I figured it out and then I realized what happened to me, which was an NDE.
So yeah, whether you believe it or know about it, it happens.
But we end up figuring it out because there's such a big impact it has on us.
Do you ever run into some of the skeptics that say, oh, it's just a chemical reaction
that happens when your heart stops or something else, this chemical reaction in your brain?
First of all, have you ever wondered, is that maybe just what happened to me?
And what do you have to say to those people?
Well, the answer to the question, have I met those people?
Absolutely.
Well, what I say to it is, is I know without words or without anything, the realness of
what occurred.
It's like, if somebody asks me tomorrow, did you really sit down with Eric Bennett and
have a conversation?
Did it happen?
Yes, it happened.
You know, there's no, let me see.
I wonder, you know, it happened.
That experience happened just like this is happening.
Exactly.
And then there are people who don't, who listen, who don't believe and who literally
say those things.
And I can understand now, their perspective.
You can't see above something that you haven't seen.
So naturally, that is, you know, what you go to.
So I don't blame them for saying that.
But yeah, people do say that in it, on my end, it hurts.
Sure.
Yeah, they're just not believing you.
Yeah, because it's not just a matter of, well, I wonder how, but they're like, no, you're
crazy.
That couldn't have happened.
You're just, you're just, you just don't know.
It was the medic, it was the reaction of the medication or you're hallucinating or whatever,
they get out of the story that they just heard.
So it's kind of, you know, judgmental.
Let's go back 10 years, okay, when you did have this experience and wow, it sounded like
physically you were in a very unpleasant place.
Tell us what was going on.
What do you mean I was in a physically bad place because, well, you were very sick.
Yeah.
It's so funny.
It's, yes, I was, I was very sick.
I was very ill.
I was in the hospital, but I really don't have conscious memory of anything other than
what, where my focus and attention was and what I wanted, which was to get out and go
home and the actual near death experience that happened.
It's like that memory surpasses, supersedes anything else that could have happened.
So I don't have much, too much memory of being in a bad, uncomfortable state.
But you were very sick.
Would you mind telling us what was going on?
Yeah, absolutely.
So I was very healthy, strong person, no medication, no illnesses, nothing, just healthy and vibrant
as can be.
You know, I had two kids.
I had a 18 month old nursing child and I've almost a five year old child.
So I was a healthy individual.
I was on vacation.
I caught a cold, my cold felt different than normal colds and I was having a hard time
breathing.
It was taking a breath hurt.
It was almost like I couldn't take a breath.
I call it now intuition or whatever you want to call it a voice.
I had the sense that I needed to go to the hospital and get checked out.
So it just ended up being 10 days in the hospital and the cold turned into the H1.
And one virus, which is pretty much very much like COVID, it attacked the respiratory.
Now I was in the hospital for nine, those nine days, so I don't have memory of conversations
or anything.
I was in ICU for five of those days knocked out.
So I can tell you about what was told to me that was wrong with me and some of the things
that happened while I was there.
But as far as my own memory, the only memory I have of my time in the hospital was realizing
I was in the hospital and then begging and demanding and asking to go home.
Like I'm fine.
Let's me go home.
My kids are writing.
I'm fine.
Like I was just pleading.
That's all I remember.
And then I don't remember anything else and I don't know if that's all that's the only
memory I have.
Except for your near death experience.
And that is like, yeah, that is full.
Yes.
Do you have any idea what point in the hospital that that happened to you?
And tell it, go ahead and jump in.
Tell us what happened.
What do you remember of it?
Well, I do remember being in the hospital, in the regular hospital room.
And then I do also remember waking up many times in the ICU room.
I was in a fairly light white room ICU, small room.
I must have woken up many times or was aware or awake or conscious enough to memorize this
room.
But apparently after the fifth day of being in the ICU, the news that my father and my
then husband received at the moment was that they needed to prepare for, you know, for
my departure, basically, you know, that I was not responding to anything.
And I was unable to breathe on my own because both of my lungs had shut down at that point.
And there was nothing they could do for me because they're both gone.
No lungs.
So I was in that kind of a state physically.
But when the near death happened, at that moment, it was literally like all of a sudden,
like, you know, like a scene in the movie, we were just, I just woke up.
I just got up.
I got up and I sat up and just like I'm looking at you, I woke up and I looked, I looked around
and I realized it was in the ICU room.
I knew where I was.
And then as I'm looking around, I looked to my right and I noticed that I'm sitting,
I'm in the ICU room and I'm sitting at the edge of the bed that I was late that, you
know, I'm sitting at the edge of the bed, the hospital bed.
So as I look to my right, I see that my physical body is still laying there, propped up, but
laying there.
But there's no kind of like, oh no, what's wrong.
It was just like, oh, there's my body.
It was very much like, I'm here.
That's just my clothes.
It's like, that's my body.
That was the, that was a depth of connection or anything that was just that.
At this point, I'm looking and I'm very much aware of, you know, where I'm at and I'm
seeing my body.
And then all of a sudden I hear, like, as if it's coming in front of me, I'm aware of
just this light in the room.
But there's also this voice.
There's this voice that speaks and the voice is, it's kind, but it's stern and but it's
maternal.
It's a, it's a woman voice very much kind of like the way I'm speaking.
And the voice talks to me kind of like, Lena, you need to go back.
The kids are waiting for you.
You need to go back, but you need to make the decision.
Like you need to decide.
I don't quite get that.
You're being told what you need to do.
Oh, but you get to make the decision.
Do you feel like you really had a decision?
I wasn't thinking at that point.
I'm literally in observing as I'm looking at my body.
You have to understand what this happens.
It's like, it's almost like looking at the picture, right?
You can look at a picture.
You can decide to look at your at the mountain peak and describe the mountain or to the rough,
the bottom where the ocean is and describe the ocean or the animals that's there, wherever
you put your eye in that image, you can kind of, you know, tell a story from the picture.
Well, the NDE is very much like that.
I could tell you how it started in the flow of it, but at the same time, everything happens
almost like at the same time.
So as I, as I wake up and I realize and I'm looking at my body, I'm also having a full
awareness of where I'm at, but I'm also looking down at myself and I look down at my own body
where I'm at.
I am completely clear, kind of like a glass or a clear bottle with, you know, glass bottle.
I'm literally like glass and I can see the shape of my legs, my thighs.
My hands and I can see right through them.
They're clear.
And I'm just like, okay, so I had this awareness that I was clear.
That's when kind of like, I'm also looking and listening to this voice talk to me saying,
Lena, you need to go back and, you know, it's your decision.
So as, as I'm listening to that, I'm also still like looking around and observing my
environment and as I'm looking to, to the left of me, I noticed that I see my children.
I see my son and I see my daughter at the age they were, they were at the time, which
was, you know, like five year old son and my daughter was like 18 months old.
So little and they were both just kind of like sitting there or in that, like right
there in that space.
And something happened.
The moment I saw them, it was almost like, you know, the light in the room just got brighter.
Everything in, you know, like lighter and more fresher and more like, I felt this.
It's almost like the sun coming out, but it's already out, but it's coming out more.
It's this feeling of love and the way that I can describe that feeling here on earth is
for me as a mother, I spent my whole life thinking I couldn't have kids.
So when I did have children, when I did become a mother, I was very much of a, like a mom
who was holding a miracle every time.
Like every time I got to nurse my son and or my daughter, I, for me, I would have like
oxytocin release and I would just be, I would feel euphoria.
And I even asked my doctor or other moms and people about it and they're like, yeah, well,
this oxytocin release, you know, that's the bonding molecules when you're nursing.
But for me, it was very, very amplified, but in my near death experience, it was that
even more amplified.
That's a good explanation that I have not heard before.
And I've heard all kinds of explanations because I tell people, explain that love that you
felt.
Yeah.
And men can't really relate to this one, but.
I don't think I've really ever fully described it with those two things together like that.
But this is really, really how I felt.
I'm just like, I get such intense love that it's just, I get tears, I get oxytocin release,
I can taste it.
It's a physical reaction.
And I thought that was normal to everybody.
I don't know.
Well, I, how do I put this?
The physical reaction is an interesting way of explaining an emotion here.
It's very unusual.
Okay.
All right, keep going.
Okay.
So back to my NDE, right?
Like.
Yes.
Yeah.
Tell me what else happened.
I'm showing my children and I'm just like, ah, you know, like I'm in, I'm happy and I feel
love and joy and all of what people talk about.
I'm like that.
And then I also have this awareness that now, even though I'm in the room, it's like almost
like the white walls in the room on the side have disappeared and I'm out in space and I
can see in the darkness, but in the darkness I can see.
It's not like dark that I can't see what's in there.
I can see what's in the darkness.
And what I see in the darkness is people sitting like rows and rows of people sitting and they're
all facing me and they're all looking at me.
And then I have, I want to call it an understanding or a knowing or an awareness that these are
the people that are still here on earth, the people, their family and friends.
That's interesting.
So, so you're out of your body, but what you're seeing is people that are here, not people
that are passed on already.
No, I never saw or spoke to any entity, spirit, nothing throughout any of my experiences.
But in my MDE, I saw people in my life here.
But it's interesting because I could see their silhouette, I could see their, their shadow,
but I couldn't see them like the way I'm looking at you, you're wearing a blue shirt
and I can see your face.
I could see your shadow, but I couldn't see you like I could see the entire shadow of
you looking.
So, as I'm looking at these, each person that I look at as I, as I look like I'm looking
at you right now, as I look at each individual person, that individual person rises and then
it comes closer, right?
And as they come closer, I'm looking at them as I'm looking at them that they turn into
kind of like the flame of a candle.
So if you were to hold up a candle and just look at the flame, everybody that I would
look at, they would just kind of rise up and come close so I can almost see, but except
I couldn't see them, all I saw was the light that they emitted.
So I did that to several different people.
Now, I didn't know who they were because I was trying to look at, see who they were,
but every person I looked at would rise up and be light.
I don't, I couldn't hear their prayers, but I knew they were praying for me.
So I don't know what they were praying or what they were saying, but I could feel, feel
them and I could feel their prayers for me.
And that again, caused this like, it's almost like this expansion of my heart.
Like I was like, you know, like happy, like, oh, you guys were praying for me, you know,
I had that a moment.
So.
I think this was sort of a reflection of real people here on earth that actually were praying
for you at that time and you were sort of seeing what was going on with them.
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
What do you make of the fact that they turned into a flame that could be interpreted as something
negative or something positive?
That's very interesting that you say that because up until now, I never thought of it
being looked at in any way negative.
I always saw it as positive because for me in my mind, what I see is the love which and
gratitude with, with which I look at ignites the light within.
That's what it means to me.
To me, it means that, you know, the eye that was looking through was not just Lena, because
Lena was laying in the bed also, but I was also me, but it was also the clear me, the
spirit me.
So it's almost like that's me.
When that me looked in gratitude, right, and looked with love for people who are praying
for me, you know, and that turned them into light.
So light is God, light is frequent.
Yeah, that's super positive.
That's a good explanation.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Okay.
Anything else?
The interesting thing is that's where everything just almost kind of like disconnects the lights
went out.
So it's almost like somebody just turned off the TV and the movie ended.
Boom.
Everything just stopped.
And at that moment, I was back in my body.
And it's funny because just the other day when I was doing my talk for Irons and I was
asked and I was, this was a part that was asked really, it was, how did I come back into my
body?
I have no clue how I came back into my body.
I have no memory of it.
In fact, I don't even remember waking up in my body.
I didn't even know that I was, there was no memory of it.
And that's very normal.
Some people are that way, but some people do remember how they came into their body.
And that's okay that you don't.
You know, mine is very interesting.
It turns out is because I get that you can forget and I don't remember and I don't remember.
But the thing is, is that what I find interesting in this, which I still haven't really figured
out is I came back into my body and I physically woke up in the hospital.
Like I must have at some point opened my eyes.
At some point I must have moved my physical body.
At some point I must have sat up.
At some point I had a conversation, right?
I don't remember any of those.
So fast forward to about two years ago, maybe a year and a half ago, for the first time
I actually asked my then husband, hey, what do you remember from the time I was in the
hospital?
What happened to me?
What's your take on it?
And of course, he sends me pictures.
And one of the pictures he sends me is a picture of me sitting in the hospital bed and I'm
eating a burger, a big burger and I have a drink, rice and I'm literally just chomping
away and I'm eating.
And this happened hours after I woke up from the ICU with two expired lungs.
And I have no memory of it.
But there's a picture of me.
There's a picture of me sitting and eating a burger, time and date stamp that happened,
but I have no memory of it.
So it's strange that I never, it took me another 45 years, I think, four years, 2014, almost
2019.
It took me another four or five years to realize that, oh, I had a near death experience that's
called an NDE and this is, that's what it was.
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Now, back to the interview.
You had mentioned to me also that about three years after this, you had some other kind of
experience.
You want to explain that quickly?
Yeah.
I had what they call a spiritually transformative experience and basically it's exactly what
that is.
It's you have a spiritual experience that is so transformative that it just knocks your
socks off.
It was just an experience.
The way I described the experience was a continuation of my near-death experience.
How so?
Did you see some of the same things?
Did you feel like you were out of your body?
What do you mean?
My spiritually transformative experience, yes, I was out of body and I actually experienced
a lot of the near-death experiences, like in my near-death experience, I did not see or
go through a tunnel.
I did not have a life review.
I did not have ancestors or any entities, whether it was spiritual healers or masters
or anybody.
None of them visited me or interacted with me or communicated with me.
There was no humanly conversation with anything other than me in divine, energy, light.
It was all done without words.
What kinds of things were communicated?
What did you learn?
One of the things that was communicated with me was the micro and macro of the universe,
meaning everything in life has a micro and macro.
Everything can be divided down to a single atom.
Everything can be brought back to the same microness or the smallness of an atom.
And from one atom can grow a pine tree or a full human.
It's kind of like the micro and macro of everything, the life cycle of everything.
I was shown the micro and macro of everything almost kind of like a movie screen in front
of me, where I saw the presence of Earth in front of me.
And in that space, kind of like a movie screen, I was shown a tree, a full like, at the time
I had no language for this, because at the time of these experiences, not only did I
not know that I did what an NDE was or near death experience or spiritually transformative
experience, I didn't even have the basics.
Like I never heard of the word meditation.
This was in 2017.
There was a lot of people meditating.
What was just invented the year before?
So it's okay.
I know.
I don't know.
I've never heard of the word chakras.
I'd never heard of the word spiritual this or that.
I came from a very religious Islamic point of view.
I had that was my viewpoint in life, not any other or spirituality or anything.
But I was always very spiritual because I never connected with religion.
I always knew there was something outside of religion.
And I could always see that religion, even as a child in my mind, my religion always
seemed like something in front of me almost kind of like a box with sites and walls and
corners and inside of it parameters.
And I always saw myself as lines.
And I always wanted to move the lines or question the lines.
And that was my view.
So when I had these experiences and these downloads and these visions in this spiritually
transformative experience, it was kind of like a child sitting in college and listening
to things.
I had no idea, but I could see everything.
I could hear everything, but everything was being shown to me.
A lot of learning happening.
Yeah.
Well, let me go back a little bit further.
During your NDE, you mentioned this voice and you said that it sounded female.
Tell me who you think that was.
I don't know.
Sometimes I think it's also, sometimes I think it's in my own maternal voice, you know, because
I also have that sternness and need.
I've learned to be able to be nice and be like, listen, this is what needs to be done.
Let's go.
I have a little bit of that in me too.
Back then, I didn't really express it as much.
It was more of a people pleaser and it was like, okay, you know, whereas now that part
of me, I'm recognizing that.
So I don't know who that was.
I don't know.
Okay.
You keep thinking about that and report back to me later.
I'll call you when I figure it out.
I think you're going to have some ideas down the road at some point.
I think so.
All right.
How long was it after you had your NDE before you talked about it to people?
I tried to talk to people right away.
How did that go?
Not good.
So did you kind of stuff it away for a while?
Yeah.
You know, to be honest with you, the NDE, the NDE didn't do change me as much.
It just amplified who I was so I consciously couldn't see the difference in me.
But three years later, when I had the spiritually transformative experience, that experience really
shook me.
It really, it was almost kind of like, I see a lot of things in cartoonish images in my
mind.
It's so weird.
It's like you're picking me up and going, wake up.
You know, like even though all this was happening to me, I didn't know.
I didn't know what I didn't know, so I couldn't put words to it.
So the spiritually transformative experience caused enough of a vibrational jolt in me
that made me start asking some real questions.
And then when did you start talking about all of it?
We are when 2024.
Yeah.
So in the past, I want to say, in the past two years is really when my experiences have
been mentally processed by myself in little pieces to where as they make sense, I'm like,
ah, that's what that meant.
Okay, this is how it's showing up in my life.
Oh, that's what it meant.
That's what I was showing.
And I'm starting to connect it.
So it's been in the past couple of years that the more I talk about it, the more of those
kind of connections happen.
So I've been talking about it, but really, I've just kind of started talking about it
in this past year.
So someone that's had some kind of experience, NDESTE, whatever, how helpful is it, do you
think for them to talk about whether it's just with a loved one, they don't have to
do it publicly in this kind of a forum.
I have talked to a lot of people that have just told me it's so helpful and therapeutic
to be able to talk about it.
Have you found the same thing?
So the way from my personal experience, the moment that I discovered that what happened
to me has happened to others and that what happened to me was had a terminology that
I can look up and read.
And then I started to see the moment I realized that I was not the only one because I thought
I was the only one.
And I was like, oh my God, how do I talk about this?
It's last for me.
The things that I saw, the things that I felt, the things that I went through was mind blowing.
I could not speak those things.
It took me so much time to understand and comprehend and have the courage to say, okay,
I'm going to have a dialogue about it.
But it's when I found out that I wasn't the only one that gave me permission to really
say, okay, I'm not the only one.
So let's see what it is.
It took the fear out.
It took that away.
And then just meeting other people who understand the validity of it and who can, even though
they have different experiences, but who can hold space and listen to me, it is so incredibly
healing.
It's like being able to breathe.
This being heard is so healing.
Not just for me, but for the person listening, but you can't force somebody to listen.
So the advice could be connect with an IONS group.
It's a good place to start.
Absolutely.
Honestly, it was when I discovered IONS that through IONS, I discovered all the wonderful
people and through all these wonderful people, I discovered all the other wonderful resources.
So it's kind of like a door.
You open a door to more, to more.
Okay.
So this has been a very profound thing in your life.
Tell me, give me some ideas of ways this has changed you.
Wow.
It's changed me so much.
Even though I feel like I'm still the same person, there's just so many more layers to
me I have because I see all my senses as I take in a lot and I'm able to process a lot.
And there is this inner strength in me that I cannot describe.
There's this inner peace in me.
There's this inner joy that's in me that's always there.
There's this love for life.
I've always had it, but now it's more like, I don't know how to describe it if it's more,
but I've just been able to be more authentic.
I learned more about me before I didn't know who I was.
I was very much trying to figure out how to be the perfect person for everybody else.
And I would please one person and piss another person in the process, misunderstand who I
was.
I didn't really know, but since then, I have a lot of respect and value for everything,
including myself.
And I always add myself to the mix.
I have gotten to know myself.
When you come back so changed that you affect so many people around you and at the beginning,
I affected many people in a negative way.
I had a lot of relationships that went sour.
Those kind of things really make you take a deeper look inside.
And when you do, you really have to look at all your flaws and all the good and all the
bad and decide how you want to see them or feel about them and evaluate all the emotions
and really you fix your inner stuff and your inner self inside on another level.
And I've spent years doing that.
And in the process, just to get to know myself or understand what happened to me, why I was
the way I was.
So yeah, there's been a lot of inner growth.
And in that kind of a process, people often have their relationships either get a lot
better or a lot worse.
The divorce rate with experiencers is really high.
Like 70 some percent.
I have never heard a specific percent.
I thought I heard somewhere around there, but I could be wrong too.
And that would be within how many years?
You know, five years or something.
I don't know.
But I just know I've had a lot of people on the show that had a wonderful experience
and then were divorced within two years after.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah.
So I got divorced.
My marriage, my marriage ended pretty fast within a year spiritually in that sense.
But it took me probably a total of six years to go through the whole process of getting
divorced.
No.
Okay.
Well, thank you for sharing.
I want to get back to one other thing and then we'll wrap up here pretty quick.
This love that you felt during your NDE, which you expressed very well.
And I think it was more than just oxytocin, by the way.
I think that I think that was a good metaphor that you were using, though.
But my question is, where do you think that came from?
I, you know, it's funny because like I said, when I was in my NDE, I was outside
my body, the space that I was in, it was light and luminescent.
And I was clear.
I was part of it.
I was in it.
So it was, there was no, there was no start or end or beginning.
There was no, it didn't come and it didn't appear.
It was just there, like the light in the room.
Right.
But you said you felt this intense love, right?
Yeah.
It's almost like if you were to, you know how some lights have dimswitch so you can
take the light in your room and you can admit and then you can also light it.
So it was a light that just got switched up and it became more light.
Yeah.
So I'm asking a really difficult question that maybe you haven't thought about before.
Where do you think the feeling of love came from?
Do you believe in a God that provided that?
Do you think it was from you?
Do you think it was from this female voice?
Where did it come from?
That came from inside me, but I don't know where my inside was because I was clear, but
it came from me.
Okay.
So it wasn't from any kind of outside presence?
No.
That you were feeling?
It ignited from within here, out.
It came from here.
Like when I saw it was almost like the light came out.
The feeling and emotion came out of me.
Like I was the center and it exuded out of me into space.
Why would that happen all of a sudden?
That doesn't happen every day that all this love just pours out of you like that.
No, actually it does.
Eric, it does.
That's awesome.
You know, I have to say something here.
I've pondered about this a lot.
From my near-death experience, I was one of those people that could tap into love in such
a way that it was indescribable.
When I described the physical like tears and oxytocin release where I could feel the chemical
feeling right inside my nose here, I could taste it.
I never knew what it was.
I even Googled it.
I asked my doctors and the closest thing that I've heard was that's oxytocin release.
And apparently that's what it is.
But for me, I was feeling that way before.
I told you when I started my life late, my first child, I didn't have my first child
until I was 31.
So I was not a young mother.
I was what's considered a mature mother.
That's not that old.
Well, yeah, now I know that.
But at the time, you know, I spent my entire youth thinking at 30.
You know, at 30, we think we're old.
But at the time, I thought I spent my entire life thinking I couldn't have kids.
So when I had it, when I had them, I was like blessed with a miracle baby, right?
So I was tapping into oxytocin release love molecules three, four, five times a day.
Every time I would nurse, I would just speak.
It was almost like I would have to take a breath.
I don't know where that came from.
But I thought that was normal.
Most people can't describe the feeling of love as well as you can.
I love love.
Yeah.
I'm very familiar with how love feels, tastes, looks, sounds, smells, all of it, all my senses.
Awesome.
They're tuned to love.
You mentioned to me the other day the idea of high vibration or high frequency.
Would you expound on that a little bit?
What does that mean?
How does it apply here?
We were talking about what's considered high frequency and low or high frequency and energy,
right?
Yes.
Or as far as how it affects us humans on a human level.
Well, and what is it?
Where does it come from?
Is that is that placed on emotions?
Is that placed on anger?
Where does it come from?
Okay.
Now we're talking about my favorite topic and my favorite subject, which is one of the
after things that I got into.
Yeah.
So now we're getting into the good stuff, my favorite part.
We know that everything is a frequency vibration down to an atom.
Everything to the molecule is frequency.
Everything has its own distinct frequency to the point to where every object, everything,
everything, everything is a frequency individual individually.
So when it comes to us humans, we are a bag of biochemicals, right?
We are ingredients which have specific frequency.
What a great way to put it.
Yeah.
So, a bag of biochemicals.
Yeah.
So everything about us has a frequency.
Your every thought has a frequency.
Every emotion has a frequency.
And every thought and every emotion, whether together or separate has a byproduct of another
frequency.
So when the frequency of the mind thoughts and the frequency of emotions are matched,
what you get is the creation of the frequency of that which is usually positive.
Now even same thing with negative.
If you have negative thoughts and negative emotions, when they meet together, you get
the byproduct of that frequency which is a negative experience.
So it's all frequency, matched the frequency and that's what we get.
So when we were talking about frequency, right, what it is and how it affects us.
Yes.
So you are an accumulation of every thought and every emotion you have ever held.
I am the accumulation of every thought and emotion and experience I've ever had.
Now based on that is what we become, how we are, right?
Healthy person versus an unhealthy person.
The difference is it's the thoughts and the emotions that created the experience.
Well and can't we choose some of that though?
Instead of me just being this bag of biomass of everything that's happened to me, can't
I choose to let some things go and those negative things, whatever they were, you know, whether
it's somebody yelling at me or something or hurting me in some way, can't I just let those
go and stick with the positive ones?
Absolutely.
We have free will.
We are born with free will.
We are light and love.
We come here for an experience.
We come to learn how to think and feel to emanate love and light and that's all this whole experience
in my opinion of life is, is to just do that.
So absolutely you can choose.
Yeah.
We can definitely choose.
And for me, that part about my near-death experience, the voice, the only conversation
that I had, which was that I needed to make the decision.
I think that was also a, like a message for me here in the world here for me that everything
in life here for me is a matter of my decision.
Like I have to decide.
Like, so that means that what is true for me is also true for you and true for others
because I am, we are all one.
You know, there's a lot more to my other experience that we didn't get to my spiritually
transformative experience.
Next episode, how about that?
I show up.
Next interview.
Yeah.
But it, essentially, what was I trying to say?
Yeah, we get a choice.
It's our choice.
Being here is a choice.
How we live is a choice.
One last question just popped in my mind.
A few minutes ago, you used the term blasphemy.
I don't know if you realized it.
Now is that because what happened to you through these experiences or what you learned somehow
contradicted the religious background you grew up with?
Yep.
Yes, to all of those.
Yeah.
I don't need to explain if you don't want to.
That's okay.
Sorry, I know you said don't give me a yes, but that's a yes.
There was a lot of explanation behind it.
Yes, but the answer is yes.
How much fear of death do you have at this point?
Zero.
On a scale of one to a thousand?
Uh-huh.
Is it still zero?
Yeah.
Okay.
Lastly, why don't you leave our listeners with something just very upbeat and positive
that they have to look forward to today?
That they truly are light.
They come from light.
They are light that they are love and that they get to make decisions every day and that
they can choose different thoughts, different emotions and that life is created by our intent
and our intention, our intention, awareness and focus and it's just a matter of this moment
choosing something that brings a sense of love, peace or calm.
You can't fix or heal the world or everything all at once, but moment by moment, little
choice by little choice, small steps, you start to move in the direction and all we
have to do is face the direction of love and light and healing and we get sucked right
into it.
So yeah, life is a gift.
We can choose to look at it in many different perspectives, but yeah, at the end of the
day, life is a gift.
All right.
If anybody wants to reach out to you, we'll put a link in the show notes and Lena, thanks
so much for being on with me today.
Absolutely.
Thank you for inviting me and having me and giving me an opportunity to share the sound
and frequency of the experience that I had and then I hope that whoever needs to and
wants to resonate with that and finds some sort of connection that that's why I do what
I do.
So thank you.
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtriptest.com.
If you want to share your near death experience or if you have questions or comments about
the show, send an email to Eric at roundtriptest.com.
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.