Happy New Year and welcome welcome to season three of Round Trip Death, the NDE podcast
unlike any other. As promised, we're kicking off the New Year with an extremely unusual episode,
an interview with near-death experiencer and death row inmate Michael Bain.
Michael is incarcerated in Tennessee and as you will hear, we're communicating over an old prison
landline, so I apologize in advance for the audio quality of this episode, but know that you'll find
it worth listening to. From the time that they pronounced me death was a good 45 minutes. They
cut my clothes and then they paddled my hoax, my heart had stopped and I could see people screaming
and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my physical body because I was somewhere else.
The only thing that I could feel if you could imagine absolute love and peace, there wasn't
anything else to be felt. I was greeted by people I'd known in the past. I'm back home again.
Incredibly safe and felt at home. Hey, good morning Michael. It's good to meet you.
Nice to meet you. Good morning. Good morning. So our podcast is all about near-death experiences
and I interview people from all over the world and all walks of life that have had near-death
experiences and we'd love to hear about yours today. Well, before I have you jump into it,
can you just tell our listeners a little bit about you and your circumstances? They don't know who
you are yet. My name is John Michael Bain. I go by Michael Michael. I'm on Tennessee's death row
in Nashville, Tennessee. I've been here since 1990. I've got a web page which is freemichaelbain.weebly.com
and I also have an Instagram page that says Tennessee death row inmate six justice. I've been
trying for many, many years to get DNA testing and stuff like that right there for my case.
I've been trying since 93 since I first seen it on the TV. They do DNA tests and I just recently
got it, but there's a big process going on here in Tennessee right now that the attorney general
for the state of Tennessee is fighting with all the local DAs about he should have all the authority
over these death penalty cases and they're saying, no, because you're appointed and we're elected. We
should have it and that's the only thing that's holding me up right now. Okay. I was 23 years
old when I come here and now I'm going to turn 59. Wow, you've been there a long time. Long time.
Hey, let's go back to 1994. I believe it was September 5th, 1994. You were already in prison.
What happened that day? I was on death row at that time. We went out to the yard to go to the
red yard to exercise and stuff like that. Me and a few guys go out on the yard and we played
P-knuckle. Me and the guy Henry Hodges and I played partners with, I thought at the time was one of my
good friends. Me and him was playing partners against somebody else. We'd been playing for about
15 minutes and we'd all sat down at this concrete table and stool and everything.
Behind me is a phone booth where you make phone calls when you go out to the yard.
All of a sudden, he told somebody, he said, man, Henry told somebody else that was in the
case. He said, take my hand. I need to make a phone call right quick. I didn't think that,
because everybody said that table was pretty cool. He got behind me, started dialing the number.
I heard him dial the number. I was standing in the cars. I was standing up, dealing the cars to all
the other players. When I sat down, he put his arm around my neck and I thought he was just playing.
So I pulled his arm from around my neck and when I pulled his arm back,
it had my arm and his arm had blood all over it. So before I could get up, he stabbed me in the back,
right through my back to my heart and cut my kidneys open. But what I didn't know at the time,
he'd already cut my throat. He cut my drug domain completely in two.
That is unbelievable that you're alive to talk about that today.
I realized that. I realized that. And I thank God for it every day. It's just a miracle.
But he chased me around the record because there was no officer and there was a lot of inmates
on the record that were screaming and hard to get some help out there. And finally after about
20 minutes or so, some officers come out there and they wouldn't come into the cage because he
had a knife, right? So they opened the cage up and I just went outside the cage and I don't know
if I should say this over here, but I was so mad at myself for being, for letting somebody sneak up
on me from behind like anyone somebody that I thought was real close to me. So I turned around
and looked at him and I told him, I said, you better pray to God that I die because when I come
back, you're mine. I said, I promise you that. And I went and laid down in the floor in the
Epoch. And what they didn't realize when I laid down in the floor, that there was two officers,
they're officer Sean and officer Salem. They pitched the order. They was in, they was in
Medevax in Vietnam and they pitched the arteries off in my neck to keep me from bleeding all that.
But what they didn't know that I was stabbed in the back and my kidney was cut open too.
When I laid down on that, on that tile floor, it kind of sealed off those two wounds for me. I
was lucky. I was very lucky. I was blessed. I wasn't lucky. I was blessed. No nurses helped me that
day. It was all of them two officers and they brought the ambulance down here and I had a,
they put, they put those IVs in both groins and both arms to keep me alive. But before I got that,
before I got out to Vanderbilt Hospital, Vanderbilt, promising, I blacked all the way out. I blacked
all the way out. I was in this dark place. It was really dark, really quiet, the most peaceful
place I'd ever been in my life. And it seemed like I was only in there for a few minutes, but
it was like, almost like an eternity too. But I was in a place that I felt like I needed to be
at the time. You know what I'm saying? It was so, I don't know how to play. I don't know how to say
it, but it was just so, I don't know, peaceful, and joyous and stuff. But there was no light. I
mean, everybody's always talking about they seem to like, I didn't see a light. It was all dark.
It was just all calm and all peaceful. And then I heard this voice say, it's not your time, Michael.
It's not your time. Go back. That's when I woke up. Now, that sounds very simple and very short.
And a lot of near-death experiences are very simple and very short. Some people call that dark
place the void. Does that sound like a word that describes where you were? I mean, there was nothing
else around. So I guess it would be a void. Couldn't see anything. It was total darkness.
I don't know. For some reason, the term sounds a little bit dark, dreary and negative to me,
but you didn't feel that way, did you? Tell us more about what you felt.
No, not at all. Not at all. I was just calm and peaceful. It was like,
peace like I'd never felt in my life. And it was just, it was, it was so unreal to me.
Did you feel the presence of anybody else there?
I just heard the voice. I felt, I felt love like I'd never felt it before, though.
Tell me about the love. It was just like overwhelming.
Just like, it was just so overwhelming. It was unreal.
Keep going. Keep explaining. I don't know that you can explain something like that. When you've
been to know me, you would know that there's never been a lot of love in my life until,
in the last few years. But at that moment in that time, it was like, it was all love. It was about
me and nothing else. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Whatever that voice was or whoever that
voice was, they were saying it wasn't my time. There was a reason it wasn't my time. I truly
believe that. I truly believe that no matter how bad you've been hurt or injured or anything like
there, right there, if it's not your time, you're not going to go. There's a, there's someone looking
out for us. So do you think that maybe the reason that you had an experience like this was,
had something to do with the kind of life that you led versus people that, you know, hear angels
and see a light and a tunnel and all that kind of thing? I don't know. I've never thought about it
that way. I mean, my life was just, I mean, I mean, I probably shouldn't say this, but there are,
there are people in this world that I truly believe shouldn't have children. And my parents was
those, was two of those people that I thought should never have children. They didn't know how
to, they didn't know how to raise kids. They didn't know how to nurture them or take care of them.
So until, until that day, I don't think I really knew what blood was about.
Yeah. Go ahead and just briefly and in just one minute or less, tell us about how you were raised.
Oh, we moved around a lot. My dad was a farmhand. So we moved around a lot because he couldn't pay
the bills and stuff like that right there. We just go from town to town, place to place.
And what was it like in your home? Did you have a nice bed time story every night and a kiss on
the forehead and put to bed? No, nothing like that. No, no, nothing like that. Nothing like that.
My mom was an alcoholic. So what little money my dad made, she'd always drink it up. All of us
kids learn how to cook at a young age because if we didn't cook, we sometimes when she was drinking,
we wouldn't get paid. Yeah. So you just had to take care of yourselves. Yeah. Yeah. We never had
birthdays stuff like the other Christmas gifts or anything like that. That's hard for some of us to
relate to. And I'm sure it had something to do with the kind of life that you've led. Did you
ever think that you would end up in prison though? I never thought I'd end up on death row. You know
what I'm saying? I was wild as a youngster. So I mean, I didn't think nothing about it at the time.
I really didn't. I went to prison in 1982 and I committed that crime. I drove a
getaway car in a robbery, but I didn't. I wouldn't have no partners when I hear.
I would never killed anybody for money anyway, for anything unless you hurt one of my children.
I mean, we might have a problem. All right. Let's come back to your experience that you had.
So you're in this dark, but peaceful and loving place. You hear a voice that says it's not your
time yet. Have I left anything out? Was there any more to it than that? No, I don't think so.
Okay. Not at all. It was just that simple. I couldn't believe it. What happened next?
Now I woke up and I was rolled into Vanderbilt, Thomas Center unit in Nashville, Tennessee,
and the doctor gave me a shot with a big needle. Went straight to my heart. It was adrenaline.
Then they put a mask over my face and I fell asleep and the next morning I woke up and they'd
teach me all the put staple. They didn't teach me if they put staples all in me and Dr. Rutherford
was telling all the interns and stuff around that he said, if I'd have had to have a half a
couple blood out of this man's body yesterday, he said he would have been dead. So I didn't have
much blood in my body when I got there. No, you absolutely did not. I look at that light.
I absolutely look at that light. You know, it wasn't his doing and it wasn't my doing it.
I'm still alive. It was only by the grace of God, I believe that. So tell me about your belief in
God. Did you have a belief before this experience? How did it happen after? When I was a kid, I used
to go to church every Sunday and then we started moving around. So I got out of that in here on
death row. You have to have something. You've got to find something to believe in. So I started
reading the Bible again and got off into it and I didn't really go to these churches in the prison
system in this prison because people have their own agenda and I'm one of those people. I believe
if you're going to serve God, you've got to serve him completely, not just a little bit.
So I believe in God, but I'm not a person who is
believes in Christianity as an institution. If that makes any sense. Sure. Hi, this is Will. I
wanted to jump on for a second today and talk a little bit about smart labels. Smart labels has
been super helpful for me and my wife to organize our storage. We may be a young married couple,
but we still have some of those little boxes that we put away for summer clothes and camping gear.
Smart labels makes it super easy. You just put a QR code on the box. The app walks you
right through how to categorize everything. And then when we need stuff in the spring,
you can just search right on the app what you're looking for and it tells you exactly what box
it's in. Smart labels also comes in a few different colors. So if you're moving, makes it awesome.
You can categorize your boxes by different colors. So your kitchen is red, your bathroom is blue.
And as soon as you get that moving truck there, you know exactly what boxes are what we used to
use sticky notes on boxes and they were always falling off. But smart labels made it super easy
to not only categorize things, but also look them up in the future. Will just told you how much he
likes smart labels. Now I have the fun job. I get to give some away. Just head on over to
round trip death on Facebook. There's a post there today. You're going to see the details.
It's really easy and you just might win a set. How has this experience made your feeling about
death? In other words, most people in general are fearful of death. I'm not afraid of death no
more. People that have faith maybe have less fear. Yeah, go ahead and explain. He just mentioned
you don't have fear anymore. Go ahead and expound on that. I don't fear death anymore.
But really included, I never have. It's never been one of those things I was afraid of because I
always felt like I was going to be okay. I've always felt that way. Now my friends that I talked
to on the phone, they all know that they know I'm at peace with death and everything. So it
doesn't affect me like it does most people. Most people, it's all they think about. I don't think
about it at all. But somebody brings it up. Sure. So other people on death row, are they
struggling with the fact that they may be put to death one of these days? Oh yes, because I mean,
a lot of them go medications. They take halodol and stuff like that right there and
values and things like that right there to get from them in primary because they can't cope on a
daily basis. But you're at peace with it. Yeah. I don't actually believe I'm going to die here.
I don't believe God saved me in order to let me die here. I don't believe that was my purpose.
I don't believe that was his purpose in saving me. So what do you think the purpose was? I have no
clue. I've been searching for that for the longest time. I've been searching for that purpose.
You know, we all are. We're all searching for our purpose, not just you.
Have you ever read a book? Have you ever read a book, Man's Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl?
Yes, I have. Yeah, that's one of my most favorite books. It was written the same year I was born
in 1964. So in some ways, do you relate to him and the experience that he had in Germany?
To a little bit, yeah. To a little bit, yeah. You know, there's a quote in there and he says,
be grateful for small mercies. Yeah, and it's been a while since I read it, but it seems like
he was all about the attitude that you have and the attitude that you had, he had, was what kept
him alive. But I think in that book, for the most part, he was also looking forward to being back
with his wife when he got out of there. And what he didn't know was within six weeks after they
was both captured, she was put to death. Right. And if he had known that, he may not have survived it.
He may not have survived. He may have given up. Yeah.
Yeah. So what keeps you going every day? My friends. My friends, I've got friends that I talk to on a
daily basis. I'm talking about in the free world, not inside the prison. I talk to them on a daily
basis. We set up scheduled phone calls and stuff like that right there and they keep me going.
You're trying to help me get up out of here. That's what keeps me going. Well, people like Jeff,
who I just recently met. People like Jeff. Yes, I've got several of them. Jeff, Emily,
Glenda, Beverly, Stephanie, Taylor, Emily, E, I got a bunch of them. What is an average day like on
death row? I get up in the morning, usually around five o'clock and do what I need to do before they
unlock the doors. And then I got a job here. I'm the clerk here on this unit. I take care of all
general paperwork and commissary and laundry and things like that, with their ordering clothes and
stuff like that. That's my baby routine and I make phone calls throughout the periodic week or
after the day. That's nice that you're able to do that. What would you say to other people that
maybe are dealing with either the loss of a loved one recently or they really have kind of an over
abundance of a fear of death? What would you tell them that might help them today? I don't know about
if you just recently lost a loved one. I mean, we've all gone through that at one time or another
and it's not a good thing. I think you just have to keep the faith and just keep moving forward.
Time heals all wounds. I truly believe that. I've lost both of my parents since I've been here.
I've lost a lot of family members and time heals all wounds because there's nothing we can do about
what's happened. You know what I'm saying? We just got to keep moving forward and that's what our
people and our family and our loved ones would want us to do as far as fear and death. I don't
know how to answer that question because I've never feared death. It's never been that way for me.
I truly believe if your heart is right, you're going to be okay no matter where you go.
If you believe in God, then you know where you're going. If you believe in Him.
What other changes happened in you because of this experience?
I don't think I'm so angry anymore. When I first come here, I was so angry because they
locked me up for something I didn't do and I think so many people knew that I didn't commit
this crime. It was just unreal. I mean, everybody says they're not guilty when they're locked up,
but I mean, they had no physical evidence against me whatsoever. It was just a bunch of lies.
It's just unreal. After that experience, I just realized, you know, there's not enough time to hate.
There's not enough time to be angry. So I go through the day as pleasant as I can be. I mean,
it doesn't cost a thing. It doesn't cost you a dime to say hello or good morning to somebody
or say something encouraging to make people feel a little better. Thanks like that right there.
It doesn't cost a dime to do that. It's nothing off of me. You know,
don't make somebody else's day bad just because your day's bad. Tell me about your thoughts on
forgiveness. Sounds like you've had to forgive some people. You know, people don't realize this,
but I think forgiveness is not about somebody else's about yourself, right? I mean, for me,
it only hurts me if I hold it, if I hold it, hold it inside. You know what I'm saying? So I let it go
as quick and as fast as I possibly can no matter how bad it is. Henry Hodges, I'm not going to
tell you. Henry Hodges cut my throat and he tried to kill me, but every now and then he'll call me
to his door and he'll ask me to cook something for him because he can't get to the microwave. They
got him locked down or to, you know, turn in his commissary form or things like that right there.
I had to let all of that go and it was really easy for me because I don't believe in holding
grudges at all. How about forgiving your parents? I think I've done that years ago. I kind of left
home at an early age. I never had much to contact with them anymore. Just recently, me and my two
sisters and my brother just started talking again after all these years. It's been about, I guess,
in the last two and a half years, we started talking again. It's been many, many years since
I've talked to anybody. It's in my family. And do you know the people that accused you of your crime
and have you been able to forgive them? I don't know. You don't know the circumstances. So there
was two young boys, 16 and 17, that was involved in this crime and they're the ones that testified
against me. And I couldn't hold a grudge against them because I felt like they was doing it to
protect their parents. You know what I'm saying? They weren't doing it to hurt me. They was doing
it to protect the people that they love because they both know that what they were saying wasn't
true at all. You're an amazingly forgiving person. But that's what you just asked me a while ago.
I mean, if you hold a grudge against somebody, it don't hurt nobody but you because it's eating you
alive on the inside. You may not see it on the outside, but it's on the inside. We have to let
it all go. So what do you think about God and the afterlife? And did your experience, how much did
it affect that? I don't give it any thought. I just think about it like this right here. If it's
anything like I've already felt, I'm ready to go. And where do you think it is that you're going to go?
I'm going to go to heaven. What do you think that's like? I don't know. I would like to find out.
I have no clue, but if it's just loving and it's peaceful, it was that day, I'm ready.
Sign me up. Well, Michael, I can tell you, I've interviewed a couple of hundred people
now and spent a lot of time with them that have had near-death experiences. And one of the
commonalities is love and God's love and the immensity of the love, the unexplainable love,
that you had a glimpse into. And I'm glad that you had that glimpse. That's just awesome because
when you get there, there's going to be even more of an outpouring of it. I hope so. I'm praying so.
Do you believe that some people experience more of a hell kind of place? I don't know. I hope not.
I don't know. I think for there to be evil, there has to be an evil place too. You know what I'm
saying? To be real evil. I've heard this saying by other people all the time, talking about somebody
else. There's a place, you know, there's a place in hell for somebody like you. I don't think I
would ever say that about anybody, but because that would be like wishing it on yourself. So I
try not to think about that kind of stuff. Wishing it on somebody else. You know, people are here
to wish a lot of stuff on other people. I don't do that. And I think you just wish it on yourself.
So I don't think about stuff like that at all. I'm grateful for the happiness and the peace that
I have in my own life. I appreciate your great attitude and how it keeps you going every day.
It sounds like you are a positive influence for lots of other people that are incarcerated there.
I try to be. I try to be. Have you been able to tell very many other people about the experience
that you had? There's very few people that I talk about that experience with. My friend Emma and Jeff
brought it up to me and Jeff talked about it. And then you got in touch with Jeff because of
it or he got in touch with you because of it. I don't know which one. So there's very few people
know about it. I think that's a personal thing until recently in the last three, four years,
I've opened my heart. He's been opened by so many different people that's come into my life.
You have one minute remaining. So I guess I just wanted to share my experience so everybody would
understand. Well, I appreciate it. We just got the alert that we have less than a minute left.
Is there anything else that you want to share with our listeners? No, I just appreciate you
taking the time and in the effort to, you know, to do what you can to make things better for everybody.
Thank you, Michael. Thank you for listening and just a quick reminder of the master class
called What Really Happens After We Die. This is the last week to sign up. So go to the show notes
for a link to all the information and the half price registration for round trip death listeners.
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.