1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,320 Hey everyone, just a quick warning about this episode of Round Trip Death. 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:09,720 It includes graphic discussion about child abuse and may be inappropriate for children 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:15,160 and those sensitive to this topic. 4 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:19,360 From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes. 5 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:24,320 They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped. 6 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:29,000 And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my 7 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,200 physical body because I was somewhere else. 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:38,280 The only thing that I could feel if you could imagine absolute love and peace, there wasn't 9 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,280 anything else to be felt. 10 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,440 I was greeted by people I had known in the past. 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,160 I'm back home again. 12 00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:49,680 Incredibly safe and felt at home. 13 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:54,960 Welcome everybody to Round Trip Death and I'd like to welcome our guest today, Sandy 14 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:55,960 Toronto. 15 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,880 How are you Sandy? 16 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:01,320 I'm a little frazzled, but all right. 17 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:02,880 You've had a busy day, haven't you? 18 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:03,880 I have. 19 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,320 I just got all my kind of rushed in the door. 20 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:12,480 It's time and I'm so glad you made the time because what our listeners are about to find 21 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:17,800 out, I almost said don't know, what they're about to find out is I've been trying to get 22 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,800 you on here for six months. 23 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:20,800 I'm sorry. 24 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:22,800 And today is the day. 25 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:24,680 No, don't apologize. 26 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,200 I'm just excited because today's finally the day. 27 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,480 I'm happy to be here. 28 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:31,480 Okay. 29 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:36,920 Hey, let's get to know you a second before we get into your near-death experience. 30 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,680 Tell us, where do you live? 31 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:39,840 What do you do? 32 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:45,640 I live in New Hampshire and I have two cats and a child. 33 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:54,640 I am a machinist and I'm very proud of that because when I was 42 in 2014, I was born in 34 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:55,640 New Hampshire. 35 00:01:55,640 --> 00:02:00,800 I was homeless for a little while and during that time, I decided to take an eight-week 36 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:07,040 boot camp, they called it, and become a machine operator, which is a little different. 37 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:12,800 All a machine operator does is put parts in and take them out of the machine, but I have 38 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:19,520 learned to hold the computer and tell it how to tell the machine what to do in order to 39 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:20,520 make a part. 40 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:30,000 A machinist basically is the person who runs a machine that makes tools or even woodworking 41 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,000 people. 42 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:36,120 They use lathe to make stool legs or things like that. 43 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:45,080 I essentially take a person's idea and I literally bring it out into the world. 44 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,280 That to me is just the most fascinating, beautiful thing about being a machinist. 45 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,000 I love it and I'm glad that I am a machinist now. 46 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,360 Creative. 47 00:02:55,360 --> 00:03:01,400 Before we get into your NDE per se, I know there's a lot of background that leads up 48 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:02,400 to it. 49 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:03,400 Yes. 50 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:11,560 We've had a couple of guests on recently that experienced a lot of abuse as a child. 51 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,640 Your story has a bit of that as well. 52 00:03:14,640 --> 00:03:19,520 I'm going to let you talk about as much or as little of that as you want, but kind of 53 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,520 set the stage. 54 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:23,520 Where were you? 55 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:30,040 What was your childhood like that led to this first experience that you had? 56 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,880 I was living in Idaho at the time. 57 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:40,920 My mother had been arrested for prostitution and possession of controlled substances. 58 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:49,480 She was in jail, the authorities needed some place to put me and my aunt said, hey, as 59 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:54,040 luck would have it, we're foster parents and we'd love to have the kids. 60 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,640 Hey, give them to us. 61 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:05,360 That's how I ended up with what I call the foster monsters because they were just brutal. 62 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,640 They were extremely abusive. 63 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:15,000 I'll be honest, I was in one of those situations that most people turn the channel because 64 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:20,440 they can't stand to even hear what the children went through. 65 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:28,840 When I was finally rescued, I was seven years old and I was so malnourished and so skinny 66 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:38,160 that the police officer hooked his thumb inside my pelvic bone and the back of his thumb wasn't 67 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,840 even touching my belly skin. 68 00:04:40,840 --> 00:04:43,720 It was so caved in. 69 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:49,680 I was starved during the entire time that I was with them. 70 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:55,080 I was abused with tremendous violence. 71 00:04:55,080 --> 00:05:00,760 Some of it, I'm just going to kind of skate over fairly quickly. 72 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:06,760 There was, I don't like the word sexual abuse. 73 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:11,000 So I'm going to say it the way that I honestly see it. 74 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:17,680 I was a child sex slave for four years from age three to seven. 75 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:24,440 It was very violent and it was very painful. 76 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:31,000 When that was over, I was almost always bleeding. 77 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:39,440 In the morning, the foster woman would get up and she would find me that way. 78 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:46,480 She knew what was happening and she was angry at me for seducing her husband. 79 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:51,360 She would punish me in some way, shape, or form. 80 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:56,680 One of her favorite ways was to take me in the bathroom and give me either an extremely 81 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:08,920 hot shower or buckets and ice water in the tub and hold me in the tub and try to basically 82 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:11,680 drown me or waterboard me or whatever. 83 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:17,720 She would dunk me under and dunk me under and dunk me under over and over. 84 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:27,120 Sometimes she would go too far and she would have to take me out and try to resuscitate me. 85 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:34,000 I don't remember which of the near-death experiences I had during that time was the first one. 86 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:42,160 I think there were around eight very kind of stereotypical NDEs during that time and 87 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:51,640 two or three had a void experience as well and I had another couple of kind of short 88 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:53,480 little visits. 89 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:57,520 What ones do you remember and you can tell us a lot about? 90 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,520 There are three that I talk about. 91 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:10,600 I think that the earliest one of the three was when I was told that I was having far 92 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:17,720 more kind of realistic or I kind of like to use the word pure but I'm not sure if that's 93 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:18,920 even the right word. 94 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:29,000 It's important to remember that they communicate to you with telepathy and you get just a chunk, 95 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,320 like a concept all at once. 96 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:37,880 You get a lot of information all at once because that's how the telepathy works. 97 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:43,160 I don't say, you know, this is a rose, I think it's beautiful. 98 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:44,680 I love to smell it. 99 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:50,840 You just immediately get this sense that you get the whole feeling, how it feels for me 100 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:56,560 to be holding the rose, how it feels for me to be, oh, it smells so wonderful. 101 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:02,000 So you get the entire kind of thing in one instance. 102 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:08,120 And when you say they communicate this way, you're talking about beings on the other side? 103 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:09,120 Yes. 104 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:10,120 Yes. 105 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,800 In particular, I met with the same attendant over and over. 106 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,720 It was the same being who met me each time. 107 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:23,640 I at one point asked it, you know, well, what are you? 108 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:29,200 And it kind of with amusement, you know, reply, don't you know? 109 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,760 And I said, like, no, why would I ask the question? 110 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,040 Which you know, below us were kind of amused at this. 111 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,920 And it said, you know, some people call me a guide, some people call me an angel, some 112 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:47,240 people call me a god, some people call me, you know, other things. 113 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:52,440 None of those things are really accurate, but none of them are really inaccurate either. 114 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,120 So you can call me whatever you want. 115 00:08:55,120 --> 00:09:00,040 And I just decided that, you know, you're just my attendant. 116 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:04,520 You're my friend who's here to help me go around, do whatever. 117 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:09,400 And it sort of gave me this chunk of information. 118 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,400 And when you come back, you have to translate it into human words. 119 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:15,840 So of course, as a child, I couldn't really do that. 120 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:22,760 But as an adult, this is my way of expressing what it expressed to me, which is that I was 121 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:35,280 having a more realistic experience of that transition space than most people do, because 122 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,640 I was essentially just a blank slate. 123 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:42,880 I was so abused, I didn't know how to brush my teeth. 124 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,280 I didn't even know that brushing teeth was a thing. 125 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:50,800 I remember the first time I discovered about brushing your teeth, I was fascinated. 126 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,160 I got to watch a dancing toothbrush. 127 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,680 Hey, that was good stuff. 128 00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:59,600 Anyway, I had very little teaching about anything. 129 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:01,880 I was not going to school. 130 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:05,640 I was between three and seven years old. 131 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:10,080 So I believe when that one happened, I was around three or four. 132 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,360 And I just had no understanding of the world at all. 133 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:21,800 My world existed in that house and just the yard of that house. 134 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:24,800 I was not allowed anything else. 135 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,680 Rarely, I got to walk down to the stop sign with them. 136 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:30,280 That's it. 137 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,040 Every once in a while, we went to church. 138 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:39,600 There were other places where the stuff was mic, the foster father took place that I don't 139 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,240 want to get into that too much for this purpose. 140 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:47,960 Anyway, so my world was very small, very, very small. 141 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,920 I didn't know anything. 142 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:55,960 And Mike and Dorothy, the foster people, they did not consider me to be a human. 143 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,520 So they were doing nothing to teach me how to be one. 144 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:04,720 I ate dog food on the floor and they called me a female dog. 145 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:14,080 They said, this is why you're having a much more, what this place is like if you don't 146 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:15,640 need something different. 147 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:24,080 And it was very clear to me that we're given what we need when we cross into that place 148 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:27,640 that we don't lose our minds, basically. 149 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,880 The chance is that the person might return here. 150 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:40,720 And if you take me and I'm living in New York City, let's say, and I step out of an apartment, 151 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,000 I've got my coat on because it's winter. 152 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,200 The snow is coming down super heavy. 153 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:52,200 I've got a parka and boots on top of gloves on top of gloves. 154 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:53,880 It's cold outside. 155 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:55,960 I got my face all covered. 156 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,960 And I walk out and I'm in the Sahara Desert. 157 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:03,320 So what do you think that could do to a person's mind? 158 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,920 That could completely destroy your mind. 159 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,600 You know where you were. 160 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:15,120 You stepped out the door and now you're in this place that you can't conceive. 161 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,120 How did I get here? 162 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:17,680 I'm not prepared for this. 163 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:25,800 I'm dressed for snow and I'm standing here in a hot blazing sun in the middle of nothing. 164 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:34,880 It would break your mind and it's very important to them that they don't break the psyche, basically, 165 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,880 as the person transitions over. 166 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:39,560 I didn't have any of that. 167 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:42,400 I didn't expect to see a loved one. 168 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,120 I was a child and nobody loved me as far as I knew. 169 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,160 So who would I have expected to see? 170 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,480 I didn't expect anybody. 171 00:12:51,480 --> 00:13:02,280 I didn't have an idea of religion really except they told me that Jesus doesn't love animals. 172 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:03,640 You're just a stupid animal. 173 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,880 Jesus is for humans and you're not one. 174 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:08,200 Jesus hates you. 175 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:20,280 So I had no real expectations or there was nothing there for me from my point of view. 176 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:26,080 I didn't have an expectation of an experience, not even a subconscious. 177 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:32,200 And most people say, oh, so I only see what I expect and I don't mean that in what your 178 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,320 conscious mind expects. 179 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:40,240 I mean that from what your subconscious mind expects because it's from that deep, deep 180 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:49,280 level that you may say, oh, I think that my grandmother was the one who really loved 181 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:50,480 me. 182 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,880 Or you may think that, you know what, my grandmother, she always said she loved me 183 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:56,280 because she hated me. 184 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:03,360 So if you see somebody, if you see a figure and you know, like you feel it on every level 185 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:09,560 of your being, that this being is the personification of love. 186 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:14,320 The first person would see their grandmother because they, you know, my grandmother was 187 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,800 unconditionally loving to me all the time. 188 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,840 So grandma will say, hey, you know, maybe I've passed on, maybe I'm doing something 189 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,360 else, but I'm a soul so I can multitask. 190 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,360 I'll be there for you, honey. 191 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:28,360 Don't you worry about it. 192 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:29,600 I'll be there. 193 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,320 And grandma's there. 194 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:36,160 The other person is not going to see grandma because they're going to say, I'm seeing an 195 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:41,280 unconditionally loving figure, an unconditionally loving being. 196 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:46,760 Maybe they're going to see Jesus or Buddha or an angel, whatever their concept of 197 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:48,240 unconditional love is. 198 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,080 That's what they're going to find there. 199 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:58,720 So in that near death experience, that was where I was given to understand my kind of 200 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,160 role in this whole thing. 201 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:06,120 And it was, someday you're going to talk about this. 202 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:12,080 That's part of why you're doing this because someday, you know, you've chosen to take on 203 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:18,960 this responsibility and you're going to pay a terrible price for it. 204 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,520 That you'll be able to tell people, this was my experience. 205 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,080 And this is what it's like. 206 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,320 And you're loved. 207 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:29,720 When you go home, you're loved. 208 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,880 You're always loved. 209 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:36,760 And if it feels any different, just ask for help and you'll be out. 210 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:43,200 You'll be taken to the place where you're loved and welcome to one and then a place that 211 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:50,640 you should have been if somebody hadn't taught you that you didn't deserve it or all the 212 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:57,680 many things that are subconscious mind can be, can get embedded in it that says, you 213 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,480 don't deserve love, so you're not going to have it. 214 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,200 Again, it's not, that's not on the surface. 215 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,080 It's in the deep subconscious mind. 216 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:08,080 Okay. 217 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,800 Help me for a minute to put the pieces together here. 218 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:17,640 It's such a tragic story and I'm so sorry you had to go through that. 219 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:24,080 When you were on the other side, what were you feeling, this attendant, did you feel 220 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:25,680 love there? 221 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:26,680 I did. 222 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:27,680 Yes. 223 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,560 You did for the probably the first time in your life. 224 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:31,560 Yes. 225 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:35,240 How traumatic must it have been to come back? 226 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:36,600 Very. 227 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:38,240 It was very. 228 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,280 Were you given a choice? 229 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:41,920 I was. 230 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,440 I was given a choice every time. 231 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:49,760 Tell me about that because one would think, why would you choose to come back? 232 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:53,280 And believe me, I'm not giving you a hard time whatsoever. 233 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:58,800 I just am trying to understand were you persuaded to come back? 234 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:04,120 For lack of a better way of saying it, I just knew I would come back. 235 00:17:04,120 --> 00:17:05,120 I just knew. 236 00:17:05,120 --> 00:17:06,120 Okay. 237 00:17:06,120 --> 00:17:10,280 At another point, we'll probably discuss this a little bit, but for the purpose, to 238 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:17,400 me, the purpose of life is to experience everything that the divine being cannot. 239 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,440 That the divine, you know, I call it the divine paradox. 240 00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,520 So we come here to solve the divine paradox. 241 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:31,360 And for some of us, that means taking on a lot of weight and we do it. 242 00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:36,960 We come here, all souls that come here in my belief in my worldview and what I learned 243 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,800 from my in the East. 244 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,320 We come here out of love. 245 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:46,880 And our purpose here is to solve the divine paradox. 246 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:53,320 I knew that I would come back because I love so much. 247 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:57,560 But it was, it was not easy. 248 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:04,400 And I feel like, you know, have a lot of anger at my soul for choosing this. 249 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:09,600 I understand that it was an important thing and it had to be done. 250 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:16,600 But it's, you know, this has been hard and it's still hard today. 251 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,200 My life, all of my life has been very hard. 252 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:25,880 And even talking about this is really hard and have a lot of fear around it. 253 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:31,120 But it's the knowledge that I do it out of love that keeps me going. 254 00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:41,720 And I finally kind of came to a understanding of my soul because I ask myself, you know, 255 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:48,320 if my child would die, if I didn't do this, if my cats would cease to exist, if I didn't 256 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:55,000 do this, if you would cease to exist, if I didn't do this, if rainbows and puppies and 257 00:18:55,000 --> 00:19:02,360 kittens and butterflies and all the wonderful, beautiful things in this world were to cease, 258 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:08,080 would I do this life again to save those things? 259 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:13,760 Would I experience everything I have again so that my child could live so that you could 260 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,240 live so that my pets could live? 261 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,640 Oh, puppies, kittens, butterflies. 262 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:23,680 Yes, yes, I would, I would do that. 263 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:32,760 So I understand why my soul would say yes out of love because as much as I hurt and as 264 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:38,400 hard as my life is, if I would do that for someone that I love, if I would go through 265 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:45,000 all of this for someone that I love, then I would go through this for the whole universe. 266 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:50,040 And I believe that that's the case for every one of you. 267 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,800 We do this out of love. 268 00:19:53,800 --> 00:20:00,000 So I guess the real reason that you came back was not for yourself, it was for others. 269 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:01,200 Yes. 270 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:06,920 Was there anything else from the childhood NDEs that you can remember that you might 271 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:13,160 want to share, anything that you saw or felt or any other messages that you might want to 272 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,520 share? 273 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:24,240 I believe that my out of body experience is for me, one of the most important of my childhood 274 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:26,280 experiences. 275 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:35,160 And that's because for me, it is the one thing that I can never deny. 276 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:41,160 And at times I've doubted, okay, fine, what if my NDEs weren't real? 277 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:47,640 But if they actually are some big release of chemicals in the brain or whatever, I don't 278 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:48,640 even know. 279 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:56,160 I've looked into all of the skeptical things and I'm not buying any of them. 280 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,600 And one of the biggest reasons is because of my out of body experience. 281 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:11,480 When I was six, just after I turned six, the foster parents, first they killed my mother 282 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:17,600 and you would have thought that that would have been the reason why we went on the run 283 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,520 across the country, but that's not why. 284 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:25,520 Mike violated one of the other foster girls and she escaped. 285 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,000 How many foster kids were in the home, by the way? 286 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:30,760 There were seven of us. 287 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:31,760 Oh, wow. 288 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:32,760 Okay. 289 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:33,760 Yeah. 290 00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:37,680 At one point there was 17 and nobody knows what happened to the other 10. 291 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:38,680 Oh, okay. 292 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,720 Now, when you say they killed your mother, are you being literal here? 293 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:43,720 Yes. 294 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:51,640 They murdered my mother and they dismembered her and I saw them dismembering her. 295 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,320 I watched it. 296 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:56,640 Please tell me these people have been in jail for a long, long time. 297 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:57,640 No. 298 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,760 They both died without any repercussions at all. 299 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,880 My mother was a prostitute and a drug addict. 300 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:11,320 If you don't understand what I'm saying there, what I'm saying there is nobody cared. 301 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:12,640 Nobody cared. 302 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:21,920 And I've spent most of my life trying to get somebody to do something, to arrest them and 303 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,320 then they died. 304 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:24,680 It took that long. 305 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:27,360 It took 40, five years. 306 00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:30,560 And they still haven't done anything. 307 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,360 About the other foster kids. 308 00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:39,120 Some kids in the foster system get really close with others in the family that they're 309 00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:44,080 with because they're holding on and surviving with each other. 310 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:49,160 Others because they've been abused in bad situations are pretty bad to be around. 311 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,680 What was your experience? 312 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,640 We all went our own separate ways. 313 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,020 As far as I understand, all of our lives have been hard. 314 00:22:58,020 --> 00:23:02,200 One of them played chicken with a train and lost. 315 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:06,080 I think it was probably suicide. 316 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,560 One of them is still alive. 317 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:13,120 He and I don't have any contact. 318 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:15,920 And we haven't had contact since 19. 319 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,800 Well, actually, I didn't still didn't have contact with him then. 320 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:30,640 So since 1977, 1978, 1978, I actually haven't had any contact with any of them except for 321 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:31,640 one. 322 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:36,800 Kathleen, the girl that I was just talking about, she died of an illness. 323 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,920 I'm not sure what the illness was. 324 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,400 I believe it was in 2004. 325 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,880 So it was a while ago. 326 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:51,720 The eldest of the foster kids who did not go on a run with us, he's a serial killer on 327 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,600 death row in San Quentin. 328 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:56,440 His name is Ramon Rogers. 329 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:58,160 People can look him up. 330 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:04,520 My half brother and I haven't talked since I was 23 or so. 331 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:10,880 That's pretty much, I mean, everybody's their own, you know, gone narrow in separate ways 332 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,720 all in the wind. 333 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:18,080 So do you think the NDs that you had as a young child helped you survive all of this? 334 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,080 Definitely. 335 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,880 I mean, factually, I would just say factually. 336 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:25,720 Would you have given up without him? 337 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:30,000 Oh, I think I just would have been dead without him. 338 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:36,760 I mean, I don't know how to say this and I usually don't say this quite like this, but 339 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,360 I've taken to just being honest about it lately. 340 00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:44,480 You know, my childhood was so bad that I literally didn't survive it. 341 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,960 Repeatedly didn't survive it. 342 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:54,000 So without the near death experiences, without, you know, being given the option to come back, 343 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,280 without that mechanism existing, I would be dead. 344 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,280 I don't know any other way to say it. 345 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,640 I mean, I was dead and I came back. 346 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:13,320 Like I walked back into my body essentially, so of course I would be dead, but I also think 347 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:20,000 that, you know, just from a more psychological standpoint, I definitely think I would have 348 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,000 been dead without him. 349 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:27,200 I tried to commit suicide in my twenties and I think I would have tried a lot sooner than 350 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,560 that without that. 351 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:34,840 Also, you know, the combination of that and a very strict religious upbringing after I 352 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:42,800 left where, you know, suicide is self-murder and you're going to hell if you do that. 353 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:49,680 You know, suicide is prohibited, but so is trying to get help so they won't do it. 354 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:54,080 Sounds like we need to find out just a little bit more about the rest of your childhood. 355 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:57,120 You said that you were saved at age seven. 356 00:25:57,120 --> 00:25:58,320 How were you saved? 357 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,080 I want to hear a little bit of a happy ending here. 358 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:06,840 There was a private detective and that's what my other book that I was telling you a little 359 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:12,640 bit about, that actually is the arc, the entire arc of that book. 360 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,960 The detective chased them across the country. 361 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:25,360 He chased them from Idaho up into Oregon and Washington state and then all the way across 362 00:26:25,360 --> 00:26:30,240 the United States until we were rescued in Arkansas. 363 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:37,760 And interestingly in Arkansas, they weren't actually trying to get us at that point. 364 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:43,560 They got, they arrested them for a stolen vehicle, for receiving a stolen vehicle. 365 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:50,360 And that's how we got rescued is because they didn't care about the warrant from Idaho. 366 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:53,560 They didn't care that, I mean, we were foster kids. 367 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,240 They were like, they're foster kids with their foster parents. 368 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,280 What do you want about, we don't, why would that be our business? 369 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:01,280 We don't care. 370 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,680 What proof do you have the Therapeutic Museum? 371 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:04,680 That's ridiculous. 372 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,880 Leave us alone about it. 373 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:13,000 So finally he was able to find something that he could get them arrested on. 374 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,880 And when they came to arrest them, like I said, they found us just, you know, they found 375 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,880 me skin and bones. 376 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,600 They found the other kids not well off. 377 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:27,840 We were living in one of those gross homes with, you know, garbage in the corners. 378 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:34,040 And I was watching a true crime video the other day and I was thinking, oh, God, that's 379 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:38,240 the, that's the place I used to live in. 380 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,080 He just, he just stuck with it. 381 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:47,200 He stuck with it for half the, that's, I mean, that's half, more than half the nation. 382 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,840 You know his name? 383 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:54,120 I do, yes, but he doesn't want me giving that out. 384 00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:55,120 Okay. 385 00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:59,960 I was just going to let you send Kudos his way, but if he would rather be private, we'll 386 00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:01,760 respect that. 387 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:11,440 Well he, I have given him his, you know, I've told him, I actually cried so hard, I couldn't, 388 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,040 I could barely speak. 389 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,720 And I told him how much I appreciated him and, and that, you know, he would be the hero 390 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,720 in the book and he is the hero in the book and he's the hero in my life. 391 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:23,720 Okay. 392 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:28,760 Well, our podcast is, is not about foster system or abuse per se. 393 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:35,560 I know we've gone down that road, but, but I have to ask one more question anyway. 394 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,960 After you were rescued, did it get better? 395 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,920 Well it would be hard for it not to get better than that. 396 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:47,080 But did it get good, should I say? 397 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:53,000 People want a happy ending and I know they want the happy ending, but it's been really 398 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,000 rough. 399 00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,360 My grandparents adopted me and they didn't really want me and I ended up back in foster 400 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,080 care and those two were so rough, right? 401 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:03,080 Yeah. 402 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:08,400 You know, but I'm here, I'm here and I have a child that I love very much and I have two 403 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,760 cats that I love very much and you know, that's, that's my happy. 404 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,000 How old is your child? 405 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,500 17. 406 00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:20,000 Just about to turn 17, Halloween baby. 407 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,280 You had a couple of experiences as an adult too. 408 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:25,120 Do you want to tell us about those? 409 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:31,360 Those are much less interesting than my out of body experience, but they're still interesting. 410 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:38,720 One of them was kind of a revisiting of the idea that we choose the life that we come 411 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,120 to live here. 412 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:45,320 And it was just more like a parable and I always am worried about a little bit about 413 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:52,080 telling this because people like focus on aspects of it and they're like, well, what 414 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:53,080 about that? 415 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,880 And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, that, that, that wasn't important. 416 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,760 Yeah, but no, no, no, no, no. 417 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,600 So I'm going to try to tell this really carefully. 418 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:08,520 And I will try not to be one of those people if I can. 419 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,400 Stop me early before I make a fool of myself if I'm going down that road. 420 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:14,900 Okay. 421 00:30:14,900 --> 00:30:21,720 I passed out in the laundry room and I found myself like, I don't know why, but I never 422 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,320 really did the tunnel thing. 423 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:29,680 Anyway, I found myself in the clouds, was my attendant there. 424 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:35,560 And whereas for my entire childhood, my attendant just looked like a light being, you know, sort 425 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:42,680 of humanoid form of light with kind of wings ish from the, I don't know, I don't even know 426 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,280 how to explain it, kind of an aura. 427 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:53,560 This time they presented themselves as a Buddhist monk, a young monk. 428 00:30:53,560 --> 00:31:00,960 And he was sitting there and it's like, you know, hey, yo, and I'm like, you're not really 429 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,840 a Buddhist monk, are you? 430 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,360 As always, I'm what you want me to be. 431 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,400 So we kind of chuckled about that just a little bit. 432 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:17,440 And then he said, you know, I want to show you what you've been wondering about, which 433 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:21,160 is, you know, choosing your lifetime. 434 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:28,160 And the next, you know, like this kind of train station opened up where I'm watching 435 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:39,160 it from above, and this gigantic angel walks in and she's significantly larger than the 436 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,920 other kind of angels there. 437 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:46,960 I'm just using the word angels because at the time I was very religious and I thought 438 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:53,000 of angels as being, you know, exalted kind of beings, but these are souls. 439 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:54,400 So I want to make that clear. 440 00:31:54,400 --> 00:32:00,040 These were souls and they were in lines like at ticket booths. 441 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:08,240 And this angel walks in and she's holding this like, or like token or whatever you want 442 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:09,520 to call it. 443 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:16,000 And she's got it on a necklace and she's holding on to it and she's walking in and 444 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:20,440 everybody kind of stops and they're turning and they're looking and they're like, oh, 445 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,600 hey, look, look. 446 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:28,880 This token means that she has kind of earned the right to go to anything she wants. 447 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:38,120 She can go have a super wonderful lifetime as a firefly on Rigel 5 or, you know, whatever 448 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:47,520 she wants to do, whatever, vacation land, she can, you know, be a horse, whatever. 449 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:54,520 And she walks in, she starts looking at each of the places and I can see, you know, this 450 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:59,280 is a vacation life and this got a long line and that's a vacation life and it's got a 451 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:05,240 long line and the next one's a nice life and it's got a longish line. 452 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,760 She keeps walking along and she gets down to the end. 453 00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:17,360 At the end, there are three booths and each of these three booths are mostly deserted. 454 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:24,040 There's, you know, one or two people in the first one and the other two, they're bad. 455 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:29,040 These are the lifetimes that are like, okay, nobody wants to do that. 456 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,040 Nope. 457 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:34,520 Nobody would ever want to do these lives. 458 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,240 They're important though. 459 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,640 They're kind of necessary. 460 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:42,520 They're valuable, I guess, would be the word. 461 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:50,160 She takes her token and she walks over to the last one, when she slides her token across 462 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:57,160 the table or the counter and all the people are like, oh my God, she's not doing that. 463 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,520 She's doing anything, she's not going to wipe, she's doing that. 464 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:07,480 They're kind of whispering to each other like, and the angel on the other side of the ticket 465 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:13,280 booth pushes the coin back, oh, you don't want to do that. 466 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,840 And she pushes it back to him. 467 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,480 Yes, I do. 468 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:18,480 He pushes it back. 469 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:19,960 No, you don't. 470 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,720 She picks it up for a minute and she thinks about it and she puts it down and she slides 471 00:34:24,720 --> 00:34:25,720 it back. 472 00:34:25,720 --> 00:34:26,720 Yes, I do. 473 00:34:26,720 --> 00:34:31,840 Throw hands her the ticket and he says, you're going to fail. 474 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,080 And she says, I know. 475 00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,960 And he says, well, then why do it? 476 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,880 And she says, because somebody has to. 477 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:49,960 She turns and she walks over towards the portal of birth and people at the lines are like, 478 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:50,960 she's going to fail. 479 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,160 Why would she do that? 480 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:53,160 She's wasting this. 481 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,440 She's going to fail. 482 00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:04,640 She gets there and she hands her ticket over and the person working there is like, I know 483 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:05,640 you're going to fail. 484 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:06,640 You don't want to do that. 485 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:08,160 You're wasting it. 486 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,800 And she says, I'm going. 487 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:15,000 So they take it, rip it up. 488 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:18,400 And all the people kind of come a little closer, a little closer. 489 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,440 She's going to fail. 490 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:24,960 And the worker at the portal says, you're going to fail. 491 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:25,960 You know that, right? 492 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,320 He says, yes. 493 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:29,880 Why do it? 494 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:31,480 I have to try. 495 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,320 Somebody has to try. 496 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,720 And she jumps into the portal and way she goes. 497 00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:46,440 And one thing that's really important to me to note is that this is the story of humans. 498 00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,640 That's not my story. 499 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,120 It is my story, but it's our story. 500 00:35:53,120 --> 00:36:02,400 It's the human story that we come to this most difficult and dangerous and painful and 501 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,320 horrible experience. 502 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:14,040 And we assume that we could fail and fail is way too big a word. 503 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:19,200 I don't know of a better word to use, but it's also important to me that people don't 504 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,440 take that word too seriously. 505 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,240 It just means to like not complete. 506 00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:32,760 And we have this really heavy judgment about failing. 507 00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,080 That was the word that I first used. 508 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:44,560 That was the word that I thought of when I tried to translate this experience into English 509 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:45,880 language. 510 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,120 So we don't take that word too seriously. 511 00:36:49,120 --> 00:37:01,720 But also her having this token around her neck and she has earned a vacation. 512 00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:06,700 As souls we can have a vacation anytime we want. 513 00:37:06,700 --> 00:37:14,480 That was just again kind of me trying to interpret the sense that she could do anything she wanted. 514 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,440 She could go anywhere, be anything. 515 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,880 She was not, there was nothing requiring her to do this. 516 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,800 She had wonderful options. 517 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,400 She had wonderful things she could go do. 518 00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:32,640 She could have gone and been so happy and she chose this. 519 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,740 And that is the human story. 520 00:37:35,740 --> 00:37:37,360 We could have gone anywhere. 521 00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,160 We could have done anything. 522 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:49,600 But because we love so immensely our soul has so much love that it chooses to come here, 523 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:56,400 forget who and what it is and slog through this human experience. 524 00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:02,780 So just please interpret all of that with great care. 525 00:38:02,780 --> 00:38:05,600 The word fail was my word. 526 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:11,320 There is no judgment on the other side for not completing. 527 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:19,920 They were just in awe that you know this soul is taking on this task that probably can't 528 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:20,920 be completed. 529 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,440 Like a life that hard. 530 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:28,560 And in the most technical sense I died repeatedly. 531 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,280 So I kind of didn't complete it. 532 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:36,120 But I kept coming back and I kept coming back and I kept coming back. 533 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:41,280 And that is the only reason I'm still here is because I made those decisions to go back 534 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:42,880 over and over. 535 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,320 So in your opinion, what's next? 536 00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:47,320 What's next with what? 537 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:48,320 I'm sorry. 538 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:54,800 Well, you're talking about why coming here to live this life on earth. 539 00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:01,000 So when we do finally die and not come back like you did as a child, what's next? 540 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:09,480 The experiences that I had in the afterlife were profoundly beautiful. 541 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,160 I played. 542 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,240 I visited other planets. 543 00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:14,320 I saw things. 544 00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,640 I even saw people. 545 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:22,000 I call them like I've been using the word pocket universes, but I think maybe I'll just call 546 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,280 them like pocket realities or pocket worlds. 547 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:27,560 I don't know. 548 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:35,040 They basically create a bubble of reality where they can do anything they want together. 549 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:43,320 So you could play, I don't know, Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings or Breaking Bad or like 550 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:47,080 you can just play and experience. 551 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,600 You can build worlds. 552 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,600 You can build societies. 553 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:58,800 You can help forge societies on positive planets. 554 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:06,960 The one rule on the other side that I'm aware of is one rule because it's the only one that's 555 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,080 needed necessarily. 556 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:13,920 And that is just respect others. 557 00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:20,000 If there's a planet forming and it's a lava planet, don't just go play in the lava without 558 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:24,440 saying, hey, do you mind if I make a volcano over here? 559 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:25,800 Just respect. 560 00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:26,800 That's it. 561 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,960 That's the rule and everything falls under that rule. 562 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:40,320 I believe that the highest tool and the highest emotion is love, but the highest virtue is 563 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,560 respect. 564 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,560 Everybody just has respect for everybody there. 565 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:52,160 Whether wise, have fun, enjoy your life, enjoy experiencing things. 566 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:53,440 There's no time there. 567 00:40:53,440 --> 00:41:00,080 So you could spin an infinite, you know, you can do the Harry Potter's from beginning 568 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,840 to end over and over and over if you want to. 569 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,640 If you're your best buddies, you can Lord of the Rings. 570 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:13,120 You can Lord of the Rings from the dawn of elves all the way through, you know, the third 571 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:14,960 age or whatever, the third kingdom. 572 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:16,360 I don't remember. 573 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:17,360 I don't want to. 574 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:18,360 Please don't make me. 575 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,360 And you don't have to. 576 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,560 That's the magic of it all. 577 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,720 If you like space, go examine space. 578 00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:29,360 If you're a musician, you're going to have new sound. 579 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:35,560 You're going to be able to hear every level of sound like humans have the tiniest little 580 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,080 range of sound that we can use. 581 00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,600 Over there, you can hear it all. 582 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:48,880 If you're an artist, you have countless colors that you can paint with now, countless colors, 583 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:49,880 not shades. 584 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,800 Yeah, that we can't even see here. 585 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:53,800 Yes. 586 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,560 We don't even have receptors for it. 587 00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:04,520 So there's next is whatever you want to be next with very few limitations. 588 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:05,520 Okay. 589 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:06,520 I got to ask. 590 00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:12,600 Tell me about the planets you saw and was this in your adult experiences or as a child, 591 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:14,040 do you remember? 592 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,600 That was all in my, definitely my child experiences. 593 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:18,600 Okay. 594 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,280 Do you remember anything about them? 595 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:22,280 I do. 596 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:31,720 I remember some of them very well and part of them were part of the, the NDE where I 597 00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:38,960 met with the divine being and it gave me the download about being a paradox, the divine 598 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,840 paradox. 599 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:46,520 So just to tell you that near death experience and kind of how that played out was, I was 600 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,960 there with my attendant and we kind of did the playing out in space. 601 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:56,000 Apparently, I really liked space before I even knew what space was. 602 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,000 And I enjoyed it a lot. 603 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:06,600 We were doing that and finally, attendant kind of stopped and said, what is the question 604 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,240 that you want to ask, but aren't asking? 605 00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:19,560 And I just kind of remember pouring out all of my questions all at once, like this whole 606 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,280 sense and the word came out. 607 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:24,280 Why? 608 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:29,920 But as I said, in the telepathy, it's always a full concept. 609 00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:38,240 So it was in that one burst of pain and agony, it was, why me? 610 00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:39,680 Why evil? 611 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,360 Why am I suffering so much? 612 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:43,960 Why do other people suffer so much? 613 00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:44,960 Why? 614 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,120 Like just all of it. 615 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:47,120 Why? 616 00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,840 So my attendant said, who was me? 617 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:52,080 Okay. 618 00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:53,840 And off we went. 619 00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:58,440 It took me to a planet. 620 00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,200 We were just instantly there. 621 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:09,560 I was looking up at seaweed, but they were like trees almost. 622 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:15,360 It was huge, just very, I don't know. 623 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,840 Leaves, they were just leaves. 624 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:21,840 It kind of made me think of tulip leaves. 625 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:26,880 So they were very, very tall and they were, they rippled sort of. 626 00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,680 Some of them were gold with red and some with green with gold. 627 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:37,920 And this planet, I understood as soon as I was there that this planet was entirely water 628 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,920 with like an earth-like core. 629 00:44:41,920 --> 00:44:44,360 And then just water was the rest of it. 630 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:48,840 There were no land elements on it above the water. 631 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,640 It was in a binary system. 632 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:54,240 Suns and zeros? 633 00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:56,440 Trenary system. 634 00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:57,440 Suns. 635 00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:58,440 Sorry, suns. 636 00:44:58,440 --> 00:44:59,440 Oh, okay. 637 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:07,320 The last sun was far enough away that it kind of looked like a moon, but there were three 638 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:08,920 suns. 639 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:13,040 There were beings there that I consider mermaids. 640 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:18,600 And most people, when you see mermaids drawn in like books and art and all that kind of 641 00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:19,600 thing. 642 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:24,920 They're fins at the bottom go side to side, but these beings fins actually went front 643 00:45:24,920 --> 00:45:25,920 to back. 644 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,840 And I remember noticing that. 645 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:36,160 And when I later saw drawings of mermaids and stuff thinking, well, that's not right. 646 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:37,160 I saw them. 647 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:39,200 I was allowed to see them from a distance. 648 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:42,560 They lived a little bit higher up closer to the surface. 649 00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:48,560 All of the intelligent life forms on that planet lived up closer to the surface. 650 00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:54,160 So that was one way that you could tell on that, which ones were advanced in of a higher 651 00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,200 evolution. 652 00:45:56,200 --> 00:46:04,120 We went down into the planet deeper into the water and met with kind of dolphin like beings. 653 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:05,200 They could see us. 654 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:06,640 The other ones could not see us. 655 00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,960 The first group that we saw them were mates. 656 00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:10,960 Mermaid people. 657 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:11,960 Sorry. 658 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,560 They were gentlemen as well. 659 00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:21,920 These beings took me in and just like they showed me their living space in these wonderful 660 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:22,920 caverns. 661 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:28,920 They were incredible, just beautiful structures that were actually living things similar to 662 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:30,600 coral. 663 00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:38,920 Some of them were gigantic tubes that during certain time periods, sometimes hundreds of 664 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:44,400 years, sometimes just every few decades, depending on the circumstances of the planet, they 665 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:53,160 would come up out of their tubes and they would consume debris from the water. 666 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:58,960 A lot of them were tiny little creatures similar to coral. 667 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:00,560 It was incredible. 668 00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:08,200 Again, colors that we don't have here, just intricate and beautiful. 669 00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:13,360 And after they showed me their home, they kind of came out and they sang into the water 670 00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:22,480 and very much like dolphins or humpback whales, you are water mammals do. 671 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,920 And they were not mammals. 672 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:34,240 The other pod, another pod came towards us and while they did, the pod that we were with 673 00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:42,040 sort of swam in circles around me and I could feel them sort of in my energy field, I guess, 674 00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:46,600 was the best way I can express it, helping me. 675 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:55,600 When they were done, they kind of moved back away and they said, we have blessed you by 676 00:47:55,600 --> 00:48:01,000 taking some of your sorrow and pain. 677 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:09,280 And so I bowed to them and I blessed them and I told them that they would rise up more 678 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:13,760 quickly to the level of those above because of their kindness to me. 679 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:20,840 And the other pod arrived and they as well did the same thing and they accepted their 680 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:26,120 blessing as well and went back on their way. 681 00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:32,080 We left from that planet and we went to another planet. 682 00:48:32,080 --> 00:48:40,520 It's interesting because time is not really sequential there, so I don't always remember 683 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,200 what sequence I tell these in. 684 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:48,360 So I apologize if they're out of my usual sequence. 685 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:58,400 But another planet that we went to was these giant crystal spires that were, because they 686 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:03,120 were homes basically for the people that lived there. 687 00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:08,440 And the people would take turns and they would just sing to the crystals and the crystals 688 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:18,080 because they were singing to them would grow into the right shape or form or usage for 689 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,160 the beings who were going to live in it. 690 00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:27,200 There were beings who would live in the top of them and these were not necessarily intelligent 691 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,920 species like what we would think of a sapient species like humanity. 692 00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:33,160 They were not like that. 693 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:41,040 They were more a sentient species like cats and dogs and that kind of thing, but different. 694 00:49:41,040 --> 00:49:46,480 So there were species that lived in the top and then these people who lived there would 695 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:51,400 sing to the crystal and they were just incredible, beautiful. 696 00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:59,680 It was almost like the crystals themselves wanted to create something that was not only 697 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:08,760 homey and comfortable, but also just beautiful and elegant and delicate. 698 00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:10,880 They were absolutely magnificent. 699 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:16,160 Well, the beings here, I did not go and talk to them because again, it would have been 700 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:17,160 disrespectful. 701 00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:21,680 They were sapient beings, the sapient people that lived there. 702 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:28,440 They were kind of similar to us, but they had softer, rounder faces. 703 00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:37,880 They were a bit willowy or than we are and they did use clothing, but it was just for 704 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:38,880 leisure. 705 00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:40,440 It was for fun. 706 00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:48,400 They liked to dance with flowing garments, just colorful swinging in the breeze as they 707 00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:49,400 danced. 708 00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:51,680 I really loved that one. 709 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:57,840 There were the creatures that lived on the top of them were kind of like flying squirrels, 710 00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:03,560 but very large and they would jump from one to the next to the next and it was quite a 711 00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:04,560 spectacle. 712 00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:05,640 It was just beautiful. 713 00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:10,800 Maybe humans would have been like, what? 714 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:16,120 I was not even necessarily human at that time, but I was like, wow. 715 00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,480 The next place had three species. 716 00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:29,520 There was a species that was kind of similar, like a cross between a cow, a horse and a 717 00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:30,520 primate. 718 00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:37,800 They walked on all fours and their front legs, they could curl their hands up and at where 719 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:44,800 we would think of as like the knuckles, there were hard pads like both legs things that 720 00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:47,160 they could walk on. 721 00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:54,120 Their back legs were similar to horses or cows, more like cows, I think. 722 00:51:54,120 --> 00:52:01,600 They had these primate friends who would hitch a ride, but they would be underneath them 723 00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:07,160 as they walked, not riding on their back, but instead just their arms wrapped around 724 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:09,160 them. 725 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:16,440 The third species was just kind of, they were primate, very primate, like and very helper 726 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,000 to the others. 727 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:24,400 The second species could see us and the other two couldn't. 728 00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:30,760 When they did, they raised both hands up, like just in a greeting and I understood it, like 729 00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:35,760 we would think of it as a surrender gesture, but to them, that was just their way of saying, 730 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:40,680 hello, hello, hello. 731 00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:46,320 When they did that, the others would kind of turn blindly in our direction and raised 732 00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,240 their arms as well, hello, hello. 733 00:52:50,240 --> 00:52:52,400 It was also very beautiful. 734 00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:59,800 Their life was very, very simple and yet it was very clear that all three species were 735 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:01,960 very intelligent. 736 00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:09,760 The third species less than the other two, but both of the first two would be much more 737 00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:17,560 intelligent than Einstein, Tesla, think of our great minds, they were radically more 738 00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:18,560 intelligent than them. 739 00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:25,640 I don't think I've ever remembered to mention that before, but the very simplicity of the 740 00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:32,920 way they lived, if we as humans, like let's say we got into space, we flew there, we landed 741 00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:39,320 on it, we would think they were the most primitive idiots and we could just do, you 742 00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,040 know, roll them over. 743 00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,040 No way, no way. 744 00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:50,880 They were brilliant beings and they were just living the way they loved to live. 745 00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:55,080 They were happy, they were so happy. 746 00:53:55,080 --> 00:54:04,440 One important thing about the three planets, this was less the case of the lower, lower 747 00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:15,000 in the water life forms, but of the water planet, from most of them, when they died, 748 00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:23,840 what we think of as dying, they simply were like, hey guys, love ya, I'm off, I'm out 749 00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:29,280 of here, and that's it, they just left and the body just into dust. 750 00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:31,880 There's no radiation. 751 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:34,200 There's no decay. 752 00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:37,720 Nobody eats something that's living. 753 00:54:37,720 --> 00:54:45,440 All of their nourishment, energy, that all comes from their sons, all of it. 754 00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,440 It's not like here. 755 00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:56,480 People seem to really believe that the universe is just full of the way that Earth is, you 756 00:54:56,480 --> 00:55:03,560 know, predation and degradation and decay and, you know, oh, we have to have bugs because 757 00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:08,440 they're the ones that scavenged death and it's not like that. 758 00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:14,560 They just decide to go and they kind of turn into dust. 759 00:55:14,560 --> 00:55:20,560 This is amazing and sounds fantastic and we need to wrap up here soon. 760 00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:24,400 I have a couple of quick questions. 761 00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:30,120 This first one, I do not mean this rudely or facetiously at all, but what would you 762 00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:35,040 say to someone that said, oh, that was just a six-year-old's imagination making that 763 00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:36,040 stuff up? 764 00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,240 How do you know it's real? 765 00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:40,800 So first off, the out-of-body experience. 766 00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:45,280 I listened to a conversation away from my body and when I returned back to it, I was 767 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:48,240 able to repeat the conversation word for word. 768 00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:51,400 I mean, a six-year-old doesn't remember that. 769 00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:52,400 That's number one. 770 00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:56,920 But number two, as I mentioned early on, I was kept extremely isolated. 771 00:55:56,920 --> 00:55:59,040 I didn't know anything about planets. 772 00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,040 I didn't know anything about suns. 773 00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:03,880 I didn't know anything about black holes. 774 00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:07,440 I didn't know anything about any of those things that I saw. 775 00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:11,080 I had no frame of reference for that whatsoever. 776 00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,200 I didn't know about aliens. 777 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:14,600 Nothing. 778 00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:22,000 I just can't imagine that somehow as a completely isolated kid who didn't know how to read, 779 00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,480 wasn't allowed to watch TV, etc., etc. 780 00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:28,920 I understood about planets. 781 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:32,440 I understood about evolution. 782 00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:34,720 It just doesn't make any sense to me. 783 00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:35,720 Yeah. 784 00:56:35,720 --> 00:56:37,520 That's a good explanation. 785 00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:38,520 Yeah. 786 00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:43,640 Also, I know it's real because it was more real than here. 787 00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:46,640 This is not very real. 788 00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:47,640 Yeah. 789 00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:49,120 This is not very real. 790 00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:53,400 We don't have sensors to see the colors that I saw. 791 00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,240 We don't have the depth of hearing that I had. 792 00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:59,680 So it's not possible. 793 00:56:59,680 --> 00:57:01,800 That's a great explanation. 794 00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:08,600 And lastly, out of all of these experiences, what would you like to share with the people 795 00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:09,600 listening today? 796 00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:13,560 We have thousands of listeners all over the world. 797 00:57:13,560 --> 00:57:14,920 This is your time. 798 00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,920 Choose love when you can. 799 00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:22,840 Remember that the first person who needs love is you. 800 00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:28,120 And when you can, respect the greatest virtue. 801 00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:33,160 Even if you can't love somebody, just be respectful of them if you can. 802 00:57:33,160 --> 00:57:41,160 Last but not least, please understand that everybody in the entire world, everybody 803 00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,000 deserves love and that means you. 804 00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:48,440 Too many people cannot bring themselves to love themselves. 805 00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,560 There is no judgment from the other side. 806 00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,720 There's no expectation that you do this, that, or the other thing. 807 00:57:54,720 --> 00:58:00,680 So pick a passion, stick to it like a burr and go for it. 808 00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:01,680 Go all out. 809 00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:03,240 Nobody's going to be mad at you. 810 00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,280 There's not some special thing you have to find. 811 00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,680 Oh, I have to find my purpose in life. 812 00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:09,680 You're here. 813 00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:11,720 That's your purpose in life. 814 00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:13,280 That's it. 815 00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:16,160 Everything else is great for you. 816 00:58:16,160 --> 00:58:17,160 Thanks, Sandy. 817 00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:18,160 That was great. 818 00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:23,600 Thank you so much for having me. 819 00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:28,480 Thanks to you for listening and remember to follow and share this podcast. 820 00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:58,320 Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.