1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,400 Hey everyone, just a quick warning about this episode of Round Trip Death. 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:10,160 It includes graphic discussion about a suicide attempt that may be inappropriate for children 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,080 and those sensitive to this topic. 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,600 From the time that they pronounced me dead was a good 45 minutes. 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:26,480 They cut my clothes and then they paddled my hocks, my heart had stopped, 6 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:31,840 and I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my physical 7 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,400 body because I was somewhere else. 8 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:40,000 The only thing that I could feel if you could imagine absolute love and peace, 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:42,560 there wasn't anything else to be felt. 10 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,680 I was greeted by people I'd known in the past. 11 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:46,720 I'm back home again. 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,600 Incredibly safe and felt at home. 13 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:54,080 Welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody. 14 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:58,560 You have found the number one near-death experience podcast. 15 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,880 So congratulations and welcome. 16 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:02,080 And it's because of you. 17 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,560 So thank you very much to our listeners. 18 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:08,880 And a big welcome to our special guest today, Scott Bowman. 19 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,960 Coming to us from the middle of the continent, St. Louis, Missouri. 20 00:01:12,960 --> 00:01:14,480 How are you today, Scott? 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,000 I'm doing fantastic. 22 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:17,760 Thanks so much for having me, Eric. 23 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,960 Hey, do you mind letting our listeners get to know you a little bit? 24 00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:22,240 Tell us about you. 25 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,040 Well, I'm about to be 50 years old. 26 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:30,880 I'm a USMC Combat Veteran and a flooring installer here in St. Louis. 27 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,800 You look 25, by the way. 28 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:34,560 Oh, well, I thank you so much, Flattery. 29 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:35,520 You'll get you everywhere. 30 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:37,520 Sorry, go ahead. 31 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:39,040 You're a flooring installer. 32 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,880 Yeah, I'm a flooring installer for Evans Flooring here in St. Louis. 33 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:48,880 It's a family-owned company that has been very powerful in my life and just giving me 34 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:50,640 a sense of belonging. 35 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:53,600 The trades are great, brother. 36 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,200 People are getting downsized everywhere. 37 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:58,320 We're busy. 38 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:04,320 And it gives a man some connection to creationism within himself. 39 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,240 And making the world a better place, one home at a time. 40 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:09,840 It's kind of the way. 41 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:15,760 Yeah, I used to say no one ever wants to be a floor guy, but you spend enough of your life 42 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:16,400 rock bottom. 43 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,640 You figure you might as well spruce up the place a bit. 44 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:20,000 I like it. 45 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:20,720 I like it. 46 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:22,880 And working with your hands, that's a great thing. 47 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:26,160 Does it feel good when you're done laying? 48 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:30,800 I don't know if you do carpet or wood or what, but when you're done with a whole floor, 49 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,480 just take a step back and go, I did that. 50 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:35,200 Oh, yeah. 51 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:40,400 Yeah, I specialize in exotic hardwoods and all higher-end residential homes. 52 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,640 I do a lot of custom stairs as well. 53 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,440 And people want it. 54 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:49,520 There are lots of trades where it's something like, I have to get this or I have to get that. 55 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,920 But for us at Evans, we get to sort of be dream makers. 56 00:02:53,920 --> 00:02:56,960 Or, oh, I always wanted an oak floor. 57 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,320 I always wanted some Brazilian cherry in my home. 58 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,400 Or I just always wanted to get this new, but they've been waiting their whole lives for 59 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:08,080 their kids to grow up, no rollerblading on the house. 60 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:13,280 And so being able to do that, as a combat veteran, you get people that want to thank 61 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:14,960 you for your service a lot. 62 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:16,800 We hate that. 63 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:17,760 It was a job. 64 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:23,200 It's a job that I was young and dumb and I needed something to straighten me up anyway. 65 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:30,000 And you can only walk through so many opium fields and oil fields before you're like, 66 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,440 maybe this isn't about freedom. 67 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:38,880 But when a homeowner shows that appreciation and gratitude for me for changing their entire 68 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:43,600 home, increasing the value, increasing the equity, I actually get to feel like a hero. 69 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,160 I actually did something great for this person. 70 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,120 That's awesome. 71 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:48,560 And you get paid for it. 72 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,480 And I get paid quite well actually. 73 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,360 There's a 70% vacancy rate in the trade right now. 74 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:53,840 Wow. 75 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:54,320 Okay. 76 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,440 This show is all about near-death experiences. 77 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,600 We're going to talk about yours. 78 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:04,880 I want a little background leading up to it because it tells part of the story. 79 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:09,600 Would you mind telling me a little bit about what your life was like growing up? 80 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:10,080 Yeah. 81 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:15,520 That's the little bit part is the most difficult. 82 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,840 I had a very, very challenging childhood. 83 00:04:19,840 --> 00:04:25,520 My biological father was murdered a week before I was born. 84 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:27,520 My mother was just a teenager. 85 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,840 This was in inner-city Chicago. 86 00:04:29,840 --> 00:04:34,800 My grandfather, whom she lived with, was a World War II veteran, had a bullet in his 87 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:35,440 brain. 88 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:41,440 And her brother was mentally disabled, extremely mentally challenged. 89 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:44,560 She was born, breached with a billy-coat cord around his neck. 90 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:52,240 So here she is, a little girl with a little boy all alone with no one to take care of her. 91 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:57,840 And immediately I dealt with a lot of trauma that we don't even know the cause of it, whether 92 00:04:57,840 --> 00:05:01,680 it was my grandfather or my disabled uncle. 93 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:07,520 But I was found with ruses, crying upstairs alone. 94 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:13,840 A lot of neglected abuse happening before my mother even could finish college and started 95 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:16,080 taking care of me herself. 96 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:17,920 I spent my fifth to fast forward. 97 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,640 I spent my fifth birthday in a hospital. 98 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:28,080 I spent my fifth birthday in a Lakeshore mental institution in an abused children's unit. 99 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:36,400 And years and years of my life, I was in and out of different institutions, juvenile homes, 100 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,240 foster care, group homes. 101 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:40,640 None of them were terrible. 102 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:50,000 In fact, when you look at the experiences of children in today's foster group here with 103 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:58,400 similar experiences, the level of abuse and trauma they have is almost worse than when 104 00:05:58,400 --> 00:05:59,280 they were in the home. 105 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:02,960 But all of that really stopped for me when I was out of the home. 106 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:05,680 I didn't have stepfathers beating me. 107 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:12,000 I'd been hospitalized several times for child abuse that led to these consistent out-home 108 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:12,720 placements. 109 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:19,920 But honestly, God protected me through the vast majority of these facilities and homes 110 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,600 where they were good homes and I just wasn't a good fit. 111 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,680 I had a very high IQ. 112 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:32,240 And one of these facilities, I was tested and found to have an IQ of 186. 113 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,120 To put that in reference, Einstein's was 169. 114 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:41,840 So my ability to create destruction and chaos around me was just very high. 115 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:43,600 I could take all these things apart. 116 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:44,800 I could escape. 117 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:50,880 I had been running away my entire life just trying to be an adult and a child's body, 118 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,160 understanding things of a spiritual nature. 119 00:06:56,160 --> 00:07:00,800 I mean, I read Homer's Iliad in the Odyssey when I was eight years old. 120 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:08,800 And that led to a world of study of myth and religion and spirituality that just followed 121 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:09,680 me to this day. 122 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,560 But I never, ever felt home. 123 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:16,720 I never had a good structure. 124 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:26,240 I never had parents other than my relationship with God, which developed at a very, very early age. 125 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:33,760 Sometimes I wonder if abused children have some connection with God broken open with them 126 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:39,200 that just makes them closer, father to the fatherless, as we talked about. 127 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:40,560 Talked about once before. 128 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,400 And that can create a sort of bitterness. 129 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,000 Well, if you're my dad, why are you such an absent father? 130 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:49,520 Why are things so hard for me? 131 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,680 Why can't I have a home? 132 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,000 And just even places that I really loved. 133 00:07:56,000 --> 00:08:00,560 In fact, often the place where I was like, oh, I want to stay here. 134 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:02,800 I want to be your little boy. 135 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:03,840 Can I be this? 136 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,320 For whatever reason, just wouldn't work out. 137 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:13,280 And then eventually, being a six foot one, 200 pound man today, I developed into this 138 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,280 larger child quite quickly. 139 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:21,280 And you sort of, well, here's a child with behavioral issues, child abuse, child trauma, 140 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,920 incredible high tolerances for pain. 141 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:25,600 And we're going to take him into our home. 142 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:31,120 It's not something you can expect a family with other small children that's working in 143 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:32,560 foster care to want to take on. 144 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:33,760 It's a heavy burden. 145 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:34,960 Yeah, that really is. 146 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:36,560 Yeah. 147 00:08:36,560 --> 00:08:41,760 Yeah, I wound up, the best places for me were always like juvenile correction facilities 148 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,000 or sort of academies. 149 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:51,360 And some of those experiences were good, but there would always be this battle for freedom 150 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:58,480 and control that would yield me in violent situations or escape situations. 151 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:04,560 I'm just going to pack a bag, set up my timing, use my extreme intellect to know when I'm 152 00:09:04,560 --> 00:09:06,560 going to leave and escape. 153 00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:11,760 And once you escape a facility so many times, they don't want you back. 154 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:16,080 They just send you to juvenile corrections and obviously you don't want to be here. 155 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:18,080 So we'll find a different place for you. 156 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:22,640 So this evening that we're going to talk about, I believe you had mentioned to me before 157 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,640 you were in a parochial school. 158 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:25,280 Yeah. 159 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:27,280 Yeah, a fantastic one. 160 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:35,280 The thing is I'm going to name drop them a bit, let me not trash talk Norris as a facility. 161 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:40,000 A beautiful school campus, fantastic staff. 162 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,800 The children are broken up into different pods or wings, each with a different name 163 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:45,920 and a different focus. 164 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:51,600 So they're trying to make sure that they don't put children that have been through extreme 165 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:56,400 sexual abuse with extreme physical abuse or drug abuse. 166 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,760 You know, where they tried to find the best place for you. 167 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,920 The facility is in a very natural region in rural Wisconsin. 168 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:09,840 There's a stocked lake there and game rooms and lots of great activities. 169 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:17,040 And some of the things I learned from the staff, people there like Big Dan and Cuomo 170 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:22,960 and some of the wonderful young ladies there have held me to this day and have been a part 171 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,480 of creating healthy coping skills. 172 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:32,960 But the problem with all of these facilities isn't the adults, it's the children. 173 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:39,920 And when you take children out of these painful places that have some very dark coping skills, 174 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:47,760 you can share these coping skills like, oh, that cutting and drug use and all of these 175 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:49,280 things, oh, that works for you. 176 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:56,720 And in bulimia and sort of eating disorders, you'll sort of absorb one another's disorders 177 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,960 like a sponge because your children, you're young, you're malleable. 178 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:06,320 Child on child abuse is one of the most common abuses on the country. 179 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,720 And for our generation is Gen Xers. 180 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:11,840 We're all latchkey kids. 181 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,680 Parents weren't around as it was anyway. 182 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:16,120 So we were all self-taught. 183 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:20,200 We were all kind of on our own on the tracks, if you would. 184 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:25,760 And that led to some very unhealthy and dangerous situations for sure. 185 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:32,600 Now, initially to the evening in question, I had been a little younger when I first got 186 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:36,280 to Norris and they put me in what was called the West Wing. 187 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:41,560 It's an all-young children unit, regardless of your trauma and whatnot. 188 00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:44,560 If you were under a certain age, you went to West Wing. 189 00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:49,920 It's probably one of the highlights of my childhood actually because of the staff. 190 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:53,000 They were all really sweet, good-natured and gentle. 191 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:58,400 And there was a lot of structure, which I was craving, dearly, dearly craving it. 192 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:06,440 And I had never been so well-behaved in my entire life, too well-behaved so that when 193 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:10,520 I had had a birthday and I had reached a certain point, they had decided that they were going 194 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,280 to send me to the group home. 195 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,120 You know, they were like, this kid never does anything wrong. 196 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,720 He's always helping the other kids. 197 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,440 He's always doing well. 198 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,920 His grades are great. 199 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:25,640 Let's reward him by sending him to this group home called New Beginnings. 200 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,520 It's right there on the same facilities. 201 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:31,360 You get access, but you get to go to town, which is kind of fun. 202 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,600 You can get on a bike and go to town and hang out with some of the local girls, which for 203 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,160 a young adolescent boy is about the greatest thing ever. 204 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,640 Unfortunately, this also introduces some substance issues. 205 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,600 Like, you've got access to alcohol. 206 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,760 These girls can steal from their parents' liquor cabinets, and they're hanging out with the 207 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,760 bad kids from the group home for a reason. 208 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:56,800 And there's fighting and whatnot. 209 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:57,880 They're rowdy boys. 210 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:03,760 We're not as washed as we were on the other facility. 211 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:11,520 And eventually, several incidents had happened to the point where I didn't have an off switch, 212 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,760 a really long fuse, but once it goes off, there's no off switch. 213 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:21,240 Well, if this is the limit of how we can be, I'm going way past it. 214 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:27,840 And so they wound up kicking me out of the group home and sending me to the druggy unit, 215 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,480 if you will, just called New Day. 216 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,320 And that was just a very dark place. 217 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:39,480 And here I am, where I'd finally found a home, if you will. 218 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:44,640 It was as much of a home as I had ever had at West Wing, to being moved again. 219 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,440 I was good, and you took me out of my home. 220 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:53,160 So it doesn't matter if I'm bad or good, I'm constantly punished either way. 221 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:57,240 It really creates conflict in a child's mind. 222 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,480 And now here I am in a place where I didn't have any substance abuse issues. 223 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:06,960 In fact, I had never even thought of using substances until you sent me to that group 224 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:07,960 home. 225 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:09,120 Do you remember how old you were then? 226 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:10,120 Yeah. 227 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,080 Yeah, that would have been 16. 228 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,120 So here I am 16. 229 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:20,520 At this point, I had been being shipped around the country across several different state 230 00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:29,040 lines from facility to facility, some of which were far more psychiatric facilities, where 231 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:36,480 when you have an extremely high IQ and advanced psychologists and students of psychology are 232 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:42,520 experimenting on you, you're learning things that the human mind doesn't need to know as 233 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,480 far as manipulation and what your worth is. 234 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:52,120 And it definitely creates a sort of dark attachments in a human being. 235 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,640 I almost went into psychology. 236 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:59,200 But that was the first thing I studied at Mizzou here when I went to college with my 237 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:00,200 GI grant. 238 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:05,440 And I was just like, man, I don't want to make a living turning normal personality quarks 239 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,600 into dysfunction for profit. 240 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,720 And I just wanted to figure myself out. 241 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:14,520 And the young interns and whatnot that are at the whim of these psychologists that control 242 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,600 some of these darker facilities, they don't care. 243 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:19,960 You're just data for them. 244 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:26,640 And so a lot of that culminated in this position where here I am in another one of these cold 245 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:31,360 sterile facilities where now I don't know anybody again. 246 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:37,560 Now I'm alone and I'm kind of an outsider and nobody wants me. 247 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:43,480 And at this point, I never really wanted to kill myself. 248 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,240 I was talking with this to the wife the other night. 249 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,440 Suicide wasn't the goal. 250 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,280 Or was it attention? 251 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,280 What I wanted was freedom and control. 252 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:55,280 I felt punished. 253 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:56,640 I felt punished by God. 254 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,440 I felt very angry with him. 255 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:07,120 The only thing I can write that's of any value to God is this life, this temple. 256 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:12,320 And that's the only way I can hurt him in a way he's allowed me to be hurt is to destroy 257 00:16:12,320 --> 00:16:13,320 this thing. 258 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:16,840 And on this night, I set out to do just that. 259 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,400 And how did you do it? 260 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:26,000 Well, you learned a lot of ways in these facilities on how to harm yourself and to get attention 261 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,240 and whatnot. 262 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:34,720 And the one thing that I found was this sort of the most successful implement was your 263 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:36,320 toothpaste packet. 264 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:43,400 This is a small, maybe one inch by five inch aluminum foil packet coated in a plastic coating. 265 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:44,400 I'm sure you've seen that. 266 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,280 And they're often in camping and travel kits. 267 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:54,160 And if you strip off that plastic coating, the corners are razor, razor sharp. 268 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:59,520 And so before the evening, it's early in the day and everybody's kind of getting ready 269 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:01,560 to go to their groups and their meetings. 270 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:07,200 I sharpen both corners of one as clean as I could that were on the opposite from the 271 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:08,200 open end. 272 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:09,200 And then I hit it. 273 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,840 So this was a very premeditated event. 274 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:18,200 I am going to break loose of this mortal coil this evening. 275 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,280 So I stashed that. 276 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:28,200 And now at night after bed, when they do lights out, about every hour or so, a staff person 277 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,400 does a walk down the hall. 278 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:36,880 And these rooms are about eight by 10 rooms with a door in one corner and at the very 279 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,200 opposite end of corner of your bed. 280 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:40,200 Comfy enough. 281 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:47,000 And then a small window in the door that's of a height to where only an adult would be 282 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:48,480 able to peek through. 283 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,560 So that way the staff person that's on shift can peek in on the kids when they're sleeping 284 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:53,560 and make sure. 285 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:54,560 But I figure I got an hour. 286 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:58,200 I got an hour to make this thing happen. 287 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:04,600 So I wait until Andrew, who was a third shifter for that evening, comes past my room. 288 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,640 And literally the moment he passes by my door and checks. 289 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:18,200 I pull my cover down, exposing the radial artery in my left arm. 290 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:19,200 Right. 291 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:20,200 Inside your elbow. 292 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:21,200 Yeah. 293 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:26,000 The inside of the elbow, as you can see right there, scarred to there to this day. 294 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,120 And I began working my way through, sort of cutting a trough. 295 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:35,720 Now, you know, for a child that's been through extreme levels of child abuse, this little 296 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:41,280 stinging pain with each sort of, you know, little cut, because you got to work your way 297 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:42,280 down. 298 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:43,280 It's not a real razor blade. 299 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:44,280 It doesn't open it up at once. 300 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:45,760 It takes some time. 301 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:52,120 And you start as you start going through, you know, the different dermal layers, it 302 00:18:52,120 --> 00:18:53,880 gets a little emotional. 303 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:54,880 You start sweating. 304 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:57,880 Your blood starts pumping through your veins. 305 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:03,800 Kind of have to take little breaks, you know, and you keep going on. 306 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:09,800 And the pain starts getting a little bit more intense as you get through the initial dermal 307 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:17,440 layers and you start kind of getting hung up, if you will, on the meteor tissue and tendon 308 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:23,760 tissue, the stuff that's in the way of that arterial sort of tissue. 309 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,800 The sound, the sound is awful. 310 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,040 It's kind of sickening, you know, but you just keep working. 311 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,040 And there's not a lot of blood at this point either. 312 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,760 It's just all really superficial stuff. 313 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:39,760 Now, mind you, I'm laying down and then doing this laying down in bed. 314 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:43,360 I've got my like, my knee up and my arm kind of stretched across. 315 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:46,360 I'm just working my way down as much as I can. 316 00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:47,600 And it kind of opens up. 317 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,640 The wound opens up a little bit more, a little bit more, you know, until eventually you can 318 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:56,040 you can full seed the artery there. 319 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:02,880 In fact, it's almost until this point until I had exposed and opened up that arterial 320 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:07,480 cavity, if you will, and I can I can see in there. 321 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,200 It wasn't like I was attempting to kill myself. 322 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:18,040 I wasn't crying or saying why God, because it's so premeditated where I was like, if 323 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:24,000 this is the end result, if this is the course of my life, then this is the plan I'm taking. 324 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:31,840 It was more so like I was attempting to break out of a prison with a spoon, you know, like 325 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:36,880 I'm just scooping out this tunnel and I'm very focused and I want to be quiet. 326 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:45,520 I was more apprehensive and had more anxiety about getting caught by the staff person than 327 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:54,400 I was apprehensive about my mortality, about ending my life until this moment. 328 00:20:54,400 --> 00:21:00,360 Once the the the arteries exposed, and I can see it, you know, I can literally see the 329 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,320 artery pulsing in there. 330 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:03,320 My heart is beating. 331 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:09,040 You know, there's a ton of sweat on my brow, the sort of gravity of what I was about to 332 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:10,840 do really sets in. 333 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,360 And tears started to come. 334 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:17,760 I couldn't say I was crying, but I couldn't, I definitely the tears were just flowing down 335 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,920 my face or it's like, this is it. 336 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:26,600 And I set my eyes on the ceiling and I turned around the toothpaste packet to the unused 337 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:32,760 sharp side and I held it against that artery and I just really fast just ripped out. 338 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:38,560 And I could immediately feel this like just warmth just like began pulling down me and 339 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:40,880 I still hadn't looked at it. 340 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,360 And then I did it when I did him feel fear. 341 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:46,860 I felt relief. 342 00:21:46,860 --> 00:21:54,320 I felt like like a construction worker that is just put his last board in on a big flooring 343 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:55,320 project. 344 00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:00,880 And I laid my arm down flat along my side with the wound filling up. 345 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:07,720 I could smell this sort of metallic coppery smell in the air, hold the cover up over my 346 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:12,200 chest and close my eyes just relaxed. 347 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:17,200 And I had to think that I didn't pray. 348 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,960 All this time I spent talking to God, I felt like I had said everything I wanted to say 349 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:22,960 to God. 350 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:28,480 I just figured I was going to go to sleep for the last time. 351 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:33,120 I listened to my heartbeat normalize because I'm calming down. 352 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:40,280 And I listened to the hum of a facility whenever you're in one of these facilities, they all 353 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,880 sound kind of the same. 354 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,320 There's a hum of the fluorescent lights in the hall. 355 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,120 Some TV plays in the distance. 356 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:51,440 A phone rings. 357 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:52,440 It's just the same. 358 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:56,360 The same sound in a hospital. 359 00:22:56,360 --> 00:23:00,200 This sort of buzz because it's building as a live itself. 360 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,840 I just listened to that. 361 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,520 And eventually it was different than falling asleep. 362 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:12,360 I actually began to feel like I was sort of sinking, sinking into my covers, into the 363 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:13,360 bed. 364 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:14,360 Right. 365 00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:18,680 I guess I kind of couldn't tell anymore where the bed began. 366 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,440 I ended and then down further and further. 367 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:25,560 And that continued for some time. 368 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,920 I couldn't even tell you how long that continued. 369 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:30,920 But eventually something changed. 370 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,120 I felt like I was being sucked down. 371 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:36,400 Like I was being pulled out. 372 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:40,600 And even this was just a very interesting experience. 373 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,240 This is until a sort of pulling. 374 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:52,880 I can't say it was hands or claws or anything, but it was a thing or many things that began 375 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,400 pulling me down. 376 00:23:54,400 --> 00:24:01,720 And that is when this laughter began, a sort of slow motion laughter. 377 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:09,360 Like if a laugh track was playing on a TV and you put it on like one tenth speed, except 378 00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:15,920 every crescendo of the laugh impacted me. 379 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:21,760 Like I could feel it in the sort of fiber of my being and myself. 380 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,360 Something I heard in my ears. 381 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:26,480 It was something I felt. 382 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:35,920 And I became overwhelmed with a powerful sense of dread that I had made a tragic mistake, 383 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,440 a permanent tragic mistake. 384 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:46,240 But yet even then, as I was writing about this in my journal the other night, I just 385 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,240 kind of accepted it. 386 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:54,760 I didn't beg for God's forgiveness or for anyone or anything to come save me. 387 00:24:54,760 --> 00:25:02,160 I just kind of accepted that this was the choice I made and what was suffering if it 388 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,280 was eternal anyway. 389 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:09,840 This would just be it forever, except that it wasn't. 390 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,920 And I don't know when it stopped or where it stopped. 391 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:20,320 All I remember is the coming awake in a very fuzzy hospital room. 392 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:27,440 That I can remember the hospital room, but I can't remember anyone that was present there. 393 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,320 I can't remember anyone coming and talking to me. 394 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,920 I don't remember when my arm was bandaged. 395 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:40,720 And I also don't remember leaving the hospital and being back at Norris. 396 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:47,560 My next memory, in fact, is sitting in a chair in front of one of these little tables that 397 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:53,520 they have in every hospital next to a window on a beautiful sunny day. 398 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:59,840 I had 72 hours locked down where I wasn't allowed to leave the unit and I was on intense 399 00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:01,960 observation. 400 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:06,000 And different doctors and staff people would come and talk to me regularly. 401 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:14,760 And I remember this woman coming and telling me how Andrew, that staff person, it wasn't 402 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:21,520 even time for him to do the walkthrough yet, but he had seen this weird dark substance 403 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,760 like near the door in the hallway. 404 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:30,960 And had came to investigate and the blood, you know, about 10 feet, because it's an 8 405 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:39,880 by 10 room, had poured all the way and because of the slope of the room, had poured all the 406 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,400 way under the door and my arm was hanging off the bed. 407 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:48,720 So I guess at some point it had slipped out from the covers and it had been able to wick 408 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:53,680 its way down my arm and down the room. 409 00:26:53,680 --> 00:27:00,920 And Andrew had screamed for help and rushed in and with his fingers had pinched that arm 410 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:08,000 artery to stop the bleeding from anymore and had held it the entire way to the hospital, 411 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:12,040 which was white some ways away, right? 412 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,400 Like this is a rural facility. 413 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:16,560 So it was several hours. 414 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:21,040 I guess he had had nerve damage in his hand from holding it for that long because he'd 415 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:26,320 cut off the circulation to his fingers in order to save my life. 416 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:31,880 This man saved my life, I never got to thank him, I never even saw him again. 417 00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:37,000 He was a third shifter and most of the third shifters were students, you know? 418 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:42,840 So who knows what path his life took after this incident. 419 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:49,680 As for me, I did not stop self-harm. 420 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:57,120 It only happened again when I was really, really trapped and it definitely happened 421 00:27:57,120 --> 00:27:59,760 in a much more superficial way. 422 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:08,520 That laughter, sound, the very fiber of my soul stuck with me throughout my entire life. 423 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:15,360 One would think that it would have a more pivotal effect, but for whatever reason, when 424 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:23,000 I have absolutely everything I want in my life, I forget that sound and what it means 425 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,360 is waiting for you. 426 00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:33,440 And I take glory away from God and I forget all the blessings and protection that's been 427 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,040 there in my life. 428 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,160 That's kind of ancient history for me now. 429 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:41,840 Let's take a breath. 430 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:42,840 Yeah. 431 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:43,840 I know I need one. 432 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:49,680 I don't know about you, but man, that is rough. 433 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:55,240 On this show, we hear from so many people have these beautiful near-death experiences 434 00:28:55,240 --> 00:29:00,840 that are lifted up at opposite of you, up out of their body. 435 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,440 They can see down on it. 436 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:09,320 Some people go through this tunnel to the light and see rainbows and, you know, I'm 437 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:16,560 almost said unicorns, nobody sees unicorns, but the idea of this wonderful, beautiful, 438 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,680 loving experience. 439 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:22,360 And yours was not that way. 440 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,600 Let me just make sure I've got all of this. 441 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,160 It really consisted of a couple of things. 442 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,720 One feeling like you were pulled down. 443 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,960 Well, initially, it was just a sinking. 444 00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,200 It was just like I was floating down, if you will. 445 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:43,960 Anyway, it's down, sinking, and then something pulling you down. 446 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:44,960 Yeah. 447 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:50,000 There was like a three, sorry to interrupt, there was like a three-stage process, right? 448 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:54,360 Just an initial sinking, like losing buoyancy in the water. 449 00:29:54,360 --> 00:30:03,960 And then a sort of gravitational pull where I'm accelerating in my sinking, and then a 450 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,840 sort of things grabbing out. 451 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:07,840 I wouldn't say hands. 452 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:15,200 I don't, at least I don't recall any fingers, but I definitely felt a thing grab onto me, 453 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,240 like a hand with mittens, if you will. 454 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:25,640 It's hard to describe, but like something with intelligence grabbing me, and I had gone 455 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:31,320 within its grasp, where it was almost telekinetically pulling me down. 456 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,840 And then when I got to a certain point, and there were many of them that were grabbing 457 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,160 me and pulling me down. 458 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:44,960 And it was that moment, like I felt panic then, but the terror, the dread, then started 459 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:45,960 to laugh. 460 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:47,360 What was the laugh like? 461 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:48,360 It was like it was mocking. 462 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,000 It was a very mocking laughter. 463 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:52,000 That's so terrifying. 464 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,000 Oh, yeah. 465 00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,960 It gives me the chipper's out. 466 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,520 I've got hair standing up right now. 467 00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,520 Do you think you were out of body at that point? 468 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:08,200 Or was this just more of a, I don't know, a dream that happened while you were dying 469 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:09,680 and you were unconscious? 470 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,960 Or what do you think was going on? 471 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:13,880 Yeah, I thought about that. 472 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,640 Was the laughter of TV playing in the distance? 473 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,440 And because I'm going, I'm losing blood flow to the brain. 474 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,800 I've thought about that. 475 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,400 It's possible. 476 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:26,400 It's possible. 477 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,240 But I don't know. 478 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:36,200 Because there's been one other incident in my life where I felt like God spoke to me 479 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:42,440 or some other being spoke to me and he yelled at me to get up. 480 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:45,280 And I told you about this, the other thing. 481 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:49,960 And I definitely believe in otherworldly voices, right? 482 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,600 And that sound, and it's not something you hear with your body. 483 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,280 I want to make sure I'm clear. 484 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,480 You didn't feel like this was God mocking you, did you? 485 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:58,480 Oh, no. 486 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,880 No, definitely the other guy. 487 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:01,880 Definitely the other guy. 488 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:02,880 The other guy. 489 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:03,880 That's a good name for him. 490 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:04,880 Yeah. 491 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:05,880 Definitely the other guy. 492 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,560 Or some minion of his or of who what it was. 493 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:16,880 I felt like putting a child in this sort of position, right? 494 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:17,880 It's not on accident. 495 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:23,720 I've always felt like you make the agreement before you come here. 496 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:30,160 You sign a sole contract towards the sort of blessings you're going to get and the sort 497 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,560 of challenges that come with them. 498 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,320 Maybe I wanted hyperintelligence, right? 499 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:41,240 Let me have a bring up some two, two brilliant minds here that are great example of super 500 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:42,240 intelligence. 501 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,080 Einstein and Tesla. 502 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:50,280 One time, Einstein was asked what it was like to be the most intelligent man alive. 503 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:55,720 And he said, I don't know, asked Nikolai Tesla. 504 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,560 Einstein died, loved, family, in a nice home. 505 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:02,960 And he was probably just a patent thief, to be honest with you. 506 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:09,640 Tesla was a truly, truly brilliant man who's still affecting all of our lives today. 507 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:17,960 And he died alone, penniless, miserable, destitute in a hotel room. 508 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,920 He'd shortly had everything he'd ever worked on taken away from him and split up by powerful 509 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,400 cover. 510 00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:25,600 What is intelligence? 511 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:33,840 What are the consequences of overthinking everything in life and allowing your mind? 512 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:39,480 Great tool, horrible master, to kind of take over your life. 513 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:45,400 Even now, where I truly, truly do have a love for Jesus. 514 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,120 I truly have a love for God. 515 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,320 I feel his inner workings in my life. 516 00:33:51,320 --> 00:34:00,160 I'm often brought to a point of discomfort when I'm comfortable because I have to overthink 517 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,160 sort of everything. 518 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:03,040 How does this look to God? 519 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,400 How am I doing right now? 520 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:11,360 It's a very challenging place to be, especially as a child when you don't have the capacity 521 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,000 to just surrender. 522 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:15,680 You're always helpless. 523 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:22,480 So tell me how that experience back then with the other guy led to your belief in God now? 524 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,480 I don't know that I have a good answer for that. 525 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,920 Okay, let me ask something else then. 526 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,200 Did your life immediately change after this? 527 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,080 No, it's always bothered me. 528 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,320 You know, especially when you do hear about other people's stories and they have this 529 00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:41,760 like powerful turnover. 530 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:46,960 I would say if anything, it made me a better father. 531 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:52,440 The reason being is because I know that negative reinforcement just doesn't work. 532 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,640 It's just very unsuccessful. 533 00:34:54,640 --> 00:35:00,680 Look at all the people that have these experiences and they come into the beauty and grace and 534 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,600 glory of God and they turn their lives around. 535 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:10,120 It has powerful, powerful changes in them. 536 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:15,800 There I went, the worst possible outcome and eternal of suffering. 537 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:23,280 I was right there at the door and I still lived a very, very difficult childhood after 538 00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:24,280 that. 539 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:26,280 In fact, you know, continue. 540 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,520 I attempted to escape from Norris multiple times. 541 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,240 I mean, I did escape from Norris multiple times after that. 542 00:35:33,240 --> 00:35:35,040 I got into trouble. 543 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:40,240 I chased girls like no tomorrow and drugs. 544 00:35:40,240 --> 00:35:43,920 I went really deep into the narcotics world. 545 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:51,080 You know, I only enlisted because I was facing an incident where I had 15 charges and nine 546 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,760 of those were police endangerment felonies. 547 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:59,920 I had to go to a boot camp, complete that boot camp successfully and then be accepted 548 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:03,680 and the only ones that would take me were the Marines, Ura. 549 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:11,000 You know, and even that experience and, you know, I had near death experiences with retours 550 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,680 under my belt too, but they weren't like this. 551 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:14,680 I didn't go anywhere. 552 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:21,680 I just got pushed me out of the way of getting blown up, you know, like, oh crap, that just 553 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:22,680 missed me. 554 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:29,440 And even then you think, oh man, if I died, I would have gone back to that place maybe. 555 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,560 It just, if anything. 556 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,880 I do have an answer for your first question. 557 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,880 All right, go for it. 558 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,400 If anything, it made me feel invincible. 559 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:44,920 Well, I went to Devil's door and came right back. 560 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,480 That probably wasn't a good thing at that age. 561 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:49,480 Definitely not. 562 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:51,560 I don't think it's ever been a good thing. 563 00:36:51,560 --> 00:37:00,200 In fact, it's only the loss of a love, only the loss of a woman's love and disappointing 564 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:06,920 a woman's love has ever really initiated substantial change in growth in me for whatever reason. 565 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:13,800 You know, all of my biggest growth and development in my life that made me a good human being 566 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:18,160 were because of meeting some woman I was unworthy of. 567 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,640 By the way, I just want to interject something here. 568 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:28,280 I want to make sure that we don't ever cross a line on glorifying suicide in any way, shape, 569 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:29,400 or form. 570 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:37,160 What do you have to say for anyone who may be contemplating taking their own life? 571 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,200 You know, it's never about that. 572 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:45,600 I don't think anybody wants to die, brother. 573 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,760 We all want to live. 574 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,120 We all want freedom. 575 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:56,680 We all want control of our own destinies. 576 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:06,320 Especially if you're young and you're trapped in that place, the best tool for that is surrender, 577 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:14,800 to understand that there is a higher path out there and to breathe deep and to find 578 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,440 a path to stoicism. 579 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,100 You are not your emotions. 580 00:38:21,100 --> 00:38:24,440 You are not the situation. 581 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,760 You're not even here in this body. 582 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:31,800 That is probably the greatest lesson that freed me from self-harm. 583 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,880 I'm not this man. 584 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,520 I'm not Scott Bowman. 585 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:37,800 That's just a name. 586 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,120 I'm not this body. 587 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:45,600 Something else outside of it bearing witness to this all unfolding. 588 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:53,540 And cutting that story short is robbing you of what might be the most epic and incredible 589 00:38:53,540 --> 00:38:55,760 journey ever. 590 00:38:55,760 --> 00:39:03,400 Because some of the darkest, most painful, worst things that have ever happened to me 591 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:10,880 led to the most beautiful, wonderful experiences. 592 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:16,640 My ability to be a parent and to love a child and to be infinitely patient with one, and 593 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:22,600 they're grown now, came from my own suffering. 594 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:28,560 I remember when one of my boys was stuffing a peanut butter and jelly sandwich into a VCR. 595 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:33,200 And in his defense, it did look like a face with the dials and whatnot. 596 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,920 And his mother was really agitated about it. 597 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,440 And I was just like, I can go to Walmart and buy a new VCR. 598 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:44,800 It's not worth raising my voice at this little boy. 599 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:52,520 And getting to witness the creation, to be a part of summoning a new soul into this world 600 00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:58,920 and be ashamed to miss that just because somebody took your childhood away. 601 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,120 That's awesome. 602 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:07,000 And if you need to talk to somebody anywhere in the US, you can call 988-SUICIDEHOTLINE. 603 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,000 There's somebody there. 604 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,000 Yeah. 605 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,000 Yeah. 606 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:11,000 They're surprisingly helpful. 607 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:15,720 And if you're a fellow combat veteran, we have a special one. 608 00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:17,400 We have a number of their own. 609 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,200 There's a veteran's hotline out there. 610 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:21,720 And it's fellow veterans. 611 00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:23,600 And so they get it a little better. 612 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:29,560 I've definitely been talked down from some situations by some of those fantastic people 613 00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:35,080 that are sacrificing a big part of themselves to help others. 614 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:36,640 All right. 615 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,360 We don't have a lot of time left. 616 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,160 Let's find a silver lining in this whole thing. 617 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,120 You know, I love my life. 618 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,480 I love my relationship with God. 619 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:57,000 It was difficult as a child to understand how free will of all things good and evil 620 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,520 are required for the beauty of creation. 621 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:05,520 And as an older and wiser man, I can see that. 622 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:13,320 You know, if what I wanted, if what led to my struggle was a desire for freedom and control, 623 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:20,360 I have to accept that that needs to exist in all things and that all things want that. 624 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:27,000 And learning that lesson and that there was, there was God's love out there. 625 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,840 That was the best silver lining I have. 626 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:40,000 That in surrender, you don't need to control yourself because there is a greater being 627 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:46,400 of infinite love out there, just waiting for you to embrace it. 628 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:54,960 I don't have any powerful esoteric wisdom that can be attributed to this experience, 629 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,800 but there is a lot of love and joy in my life. 630 00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:04,680 My ability to work through pain and struggle has allowed me to climb to the top of my industry, 631 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:09,160 the top of my company, and it's been very fulfilling. 632 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:14,280 You know, everything I've suffered from has given me some sort of strength and insight 633 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:22,760 that has made me loved by all the people around me, the fantastic friends I have, and the fantastic 634 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,600 woman that loves me despite how difficult I am. 635 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,200 So it's a beautiful world out there. 636 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:35,320 I'm glad God saw fit to send me out through the rest of it. 637 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:36,320 All right. 638 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:38,360 Thanks a ton. 639 00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:43,960 Your experience is so different than most people that I talk to on this show that I'm 640 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,480 going to ask you the question that I ask a lot of other people, and I don't know what 641 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,000 your response is going to be. 642 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:54,240 Usually, I know what everybody else's response is, and that is that I ask them, how much 643 00:42:54,240 --> 00:42:56,560 fear do you have of death? 644 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:57,560 None. 645 00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:58,560 Why is that? 646 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,600 Jesus, brother. 647 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:08,320 You know, if the other guy is real, you know, I don't believe in God. 648 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:12,840 I don't believe in the Messiah. 649 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:18,680 I believe whether or not my daughter brushed her teeth like she said she does. 650 00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:28,320 I have conviction in a creator and a divine source in the Son of Destruction and the Messiah. 651 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:29,600 Conviction. 652 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:38,280 I see it in how it works in my life and every little thing I do and how God uses me in my 653 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,680 life and His plans to reach other people on the daily. 654 00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:49,640 With every minute that ticks on the clock, with every age I open in a book, with every 655 00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:58,240 interaction I have, even with meeting you, Eric, I see God's plan unfolding. 656 00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:02,200 The ancient Egyptians don't even have a word for death. 657 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:04,320 The term is Westing. 658 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,960 And so I don't see that as a thing. 659 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:14,240 None of my behaviors are going to, sort of, attempting to take my own life. 660 00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:22,480 I think are capable of sending me there because I've accepted this relationship with a father, 661 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:31,720 a friend, and a king that loves me, despite how awful I've been, you know, including with 662 00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:33,800 how awful I've been. 663 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:41,800 And so I look forward to my next homecoming, but not because of my will, because it has. 664 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,880 It's not as good as I can do, brother. 665 00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:46,760 Well I appreciate it, Scott. 666 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:48,800 And I appreciate you being so vulnerable. 667 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,320 This can't be easy to talk about. 668 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:55,040 It was brutal and awesome at the same time, Eric. 669 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:56,400 It was brutal and awesome. 670 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,200 We got to heal these things, you know? 671 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:04,000 We've been talking about a lot of opposites today, so that just fits perfectly. 672 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,000 Awesome. 673 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:06,000 Thank you for the experience. 674 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:07,000 I really appreciate you, brother. 675 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:08,960 You've definitely got a fan for life. 676 00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:14,600 I'll be listening, brother. 677 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,560 Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast. 678 00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,600 If you've had a roundtrip death experience, we would love to hear from you. 679 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,000 Send an email to eric at roundtripdeath.com. 680 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:29,880 Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.