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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.

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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.

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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my

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physical body because I was somewhere else.

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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't

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anything else to be felt.

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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.

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I'm back home again.

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Incredibly safe and felt at home.

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Welcome to a bonus episode of Roundtrip Death, everybody.

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We have a great guest, Mary Jo Wheeler, coming up here in just a second.

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But I kind of wanted to preface it with the fact that some NDEs that we talk about are

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really grandiose and long and seem to be, you know, would fill a whole book.

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Others are short and very sweet and just as important as the ones that are long and, I

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don't know, would turn into a great film or something.

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So this one is a little bit shorter, but it is wonderful.

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And it was a super special experience for Mary Jo.

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So Mary Jo, welcome.

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Hi.

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Thank you for having me.

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I'm very excited to share my story.

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You're welcome.

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It is so good to have you.

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Before we jump into your story, tell me, have you talked about this much with very many

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people?

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So the first person I finally told was my mom.

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This was back in 2000, and I would say 15.

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She was the first person I told.

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And she actually was, her response was, yes.

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And I knew she was irritated with it because after it had happened, she had found my wet

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clothes on the floor.

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And we'll get into that whole thing of how that happened.

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But I was just curious, have you told a lot of people or have there been reasons you kept

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it a little more to yourself?

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I had a hard time processing it for a long time, and it took a while before I started

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getting into the spiritual side.

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My family was raised Catholic and my fiance's family are Christian.

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And so I decided to go with them and to start this church that we moved to this new town

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in and was getting to know everyone.

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It took about two years of getting to know everyone.

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And they had this private class in the church so people can talk about things that happened

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to them so that they can have a way of relieving some kind of pressure.

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Some people had different problems like addiction or something going on in their lives.

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And my topic was to talk about, you know, I understood God and that I believed in God.

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And I had personal reasons to believe that and they had asked me why and I said, well,

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because it personally happened to me.

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And I told them that I almost died and that I was saved by a voice that helped me and

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helped me survive.

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And I was looked like I was a crazy person, like I was lying.

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It makes me want to get emotional because that should be the place that you should be

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able to go when you're in trouble or you need to relieve.

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Sorry, I cannot believe I'm doing the crying, but it took a lot of toll on me for a little

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bit.

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And it wasn't until I started getting into YouTube, which is funny, that I started finding

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about other things and ions and different groups and then finding different support

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people that I was able to start talking about it and that relief of being able to talk about

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it without any judgment was absolutely freeing and doing this today is, is immense.

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Maybe that's why I'm even crying a little bit because I'm spreading a message of truth

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and love.

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And if anybody's having a bad day, just know that we're here for a reason.

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I don't know what all those entails are as the long stories are, but, you know, I got

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to find out firsthand.

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I just didn't know how to process it as a kid.

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And so I rebelled a little bit with things were going bad.

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So you know, there's a lot to process.

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All right, let's go back to when you were, you were only five years old when this happened

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to you.

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Would you tell us where you were living, what kind of conditions you were living in?

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And then we'll get into exactly what happened.

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Okay.

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Well, my mom was a single mom and she had me and my little brother living in a low-income

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housing in National City, California.

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We lived up the street from an old bowling alley called Plaza Bowl.

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It doesn't exist anymore.

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It's now a shopping center, but the apartment complex still does exist.

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Back in the day in the 70s, there was no fences around pools.

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A lot of times I remember apartment signs saying adult only complex, no children allowed

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back in the 70s in National City.

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So it was no surprise that, you know, this was going to happen about safety, about people

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and kids trying to go to a pool that doesn't have a fence and nobody's watching that something

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could happen.

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That's basically what happened to me.

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And were you a good swimmer?

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No, not really.

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My mother never learned how to swim.

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She was afraid of the water.

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And even till the day she passed in 79, she never liked the water.

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She was a panicker.

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And so if we went to the pool, it was to sit at the stairs.

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And I really wanted to swim.

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And naturally I was a fish growing up.

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I just wanted to swim all the time.

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So I had this really strong attraction to the pool.

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But you didn't know how to swim, did you?

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You hadn't had lessons?

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No.

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No lessons, no lessons at all.

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Just the pool side sitting on the stairs and playing right there by the little handle.

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That was about it as far as it went.

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That's so tempting for a child five years old just wanting to get in that water.

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Oh, yeah.

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But your mom kept you safe and kept you out of it until one night.

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Well, it happened early in the morning.

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My mom and my little brother were asleep because obviously it was still like maybe about two

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ish or so.

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I had gotten up early in the morning and I had this extreme, I don't know what I was

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dreaming about or what the case was, but I had this extreme desire to get to that pool.

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And so I had downstairs by myself in my apartment and I just went, climbed up the stair or not

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the stairs, the couch, and I undid the lock, the chain lock off the top of the door on

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the top right.

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And I snuck outside.

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When I snuck outside, I just ran across our parking lot and then across the way into the

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grass and then there's the pool across the way.

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And I just got into the stairs, sat onto the stairs, grabbed the wall.

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And I was a shimming across the way just around the whole thing because I wanted to see the

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deep end.

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And this is just crazy, but I wanted to see the deep end.

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I wanted to feel that.

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And so when I got there and looking down and I'm putting my feet up against the wall and

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pushing back and looking around, I let go.

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And I just went down to the bottom and kids sink.

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We don't because we have a lot of fat.

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So we're never really going to be able to sink to the bottom like kids do.

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And that's exactly what happened.

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I was literally standing at the bottom of the pool and I'm looking up.

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You could see the smoothest of the wall.

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I could see how it's curving up and I'm looking up around up above me and I'm seeing sparkly,

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but that could have been because of the light and the sun because it's early morning.

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But I see things shining through.

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And then all of a sudden I'm not able to breathe anymore and I'm starting to get ready to panic.

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And then all of a sudden I felt this staticky.

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I wasn't sure if it was because I was standing at the deep end, but I felt this static, staticky

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noises in my head.

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And then all of a sudden this voice took over my entire head talking to me underwater.

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And I feel something behind me on my left.

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It felt really huge.

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I'm almost kind of scared of it because I felt like it was something and I didn't know

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what to think.

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But I remember feeling like it had bent down over me to kind of comfort me and he had his

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right hand on my shoulder and he was leaning over to me to comfort and the voice says to

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me, okay, Mary Jo, this is what I need you to do for me.

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Can you jump for me?

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And without hesitation, I just agreed with it and I started jumping.

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And when I was with this being, I felt no more pain.

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I wasn't dying for air.

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I wasn't cold because the water was freezing.

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I don't know anything about time or what had happened in that moment, in that time at

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place.

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But I was with this being and I was jumping and doing what it told me.

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And I could feel this swishing happening as I'm jumping.

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I would feel this swishing and the voice was male, but yet it transcended with a female

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voice as well.

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I don't know if it was to make me calm or if this is the way it spoke.

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I think there's a couple of stories that I will talk about later that kind of resonated

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with me, but I kept telling me to jump and I would do what it said.

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And for some reason I knew that it was telling me I'm going over, I'm taking you across the

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shallow and I kind of automatically bosses.

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That's where I was going.

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And as I was jumping with it, the sooner or the closer we got to the shallow side, my

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head would pop out of water.

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And right before I had my head pop, that's when the urge was coming that I needed to

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breathe.

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Like that's when all the pain was coming through so that I would jump and then my head hit

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for air for just a second.

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I got a quick breath before I went back under and I kept jumping.

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And that's basically by the time I got to the stairs, I was jumping and getting air,

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you know, underwater until I got to the stairs.

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And by the time I got to the stairs, the voice was very stern, like a father.

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And this said to me, now, Mary Jo, don't ever do this again.

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Now you go home.

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And that was it.

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I ran.

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I ran.

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I didn't look back.

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Maybe I could have saw something.

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I didn't want to.

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Just a little girl.

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I think the voice did to scare me because I was in trouble because they knew I had snuck

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out of the house.

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And my mother didn't know how to swim.

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My mother was asleep with my brother.

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So if she would have found me passed away, she would have probably drowned herself trying

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to go and get me.

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So there's like all of this knowledge that's coming in through the years that I was trying

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to process.

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So that's basically it.

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That's my whole story.

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But the knowing of those things at that young age was like a lesson learned, basically.

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Okay.

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I feel like I need to take a breath.

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I've been holding my breath.

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Yeah.

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Kind of been holding my breath through this.

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Oh, wow.

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Parents' worst nightmare.

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Do you remember feeling fear and you were scared or?

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I was scared because the voice felt like powerful.

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I don't know how to explain it, but I just remember when I heard this, the whole voice

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like taking over my head, like I just interrupted the day, something going on.

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And the voice was so stern.

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It scared me a little bit.

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I didn't know if it was the scare because it felt like a ball powerful or if it felt,

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but I was scared of it for a second.

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And I think maybe the female voice intertwining was to keep him calm.

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And so that's all I really can say.

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I just...

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That makes sense.

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And maybe it needed to be firm enough that you didn't try that again.

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Didn't think that was fun.

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Oh, yeah.

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I was in trouble with the father for sure.

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I really felt that because it's just as a little girl, you're filling all of these overwhelming

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feelings that I'm learning a lesson at a young age of knowing all of the things that

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could have happened.

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Did you say that you felt something on your shoulder?

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You said you felt like someone was on the right hand side.

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Right.

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So if I was facing my back and the person's behind me on my left, it was like they were

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comforting me, comforting me, touching my shoulder, telling me, okay, Mary Jo, this is what we're

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going to do.

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Like just basically taking over is what I felt.

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But you still had to do your part and do the jumping that you were told to do.

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I had to do the free will of jumping.

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I think it had a lot to do with that.

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I mean, it wasn't like I was trying to commit suicide or I literally was just trying to

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learn something.

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I really wanted to go swimming.

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That's all I really wanted to do.

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And then the innocence of that and then the fact that I could have just killed myself

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by going in the water without your parents or somebody there.

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I mean, I literally was in that pool all by myself early in the morning.

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So it's just very lucky, very blessed, very lucky.

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It's a terrifying thought.

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It was hard to process.

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I remember even thinking about aliens for a while, just not knowing how to process this

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or when my mother confronted me when I was a little girl about the wet clothes.

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I could imagine, you know, that I was scared to even tell her what happened.

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I mean, I knew I was in trouble.

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I knew it, but...

240
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Yeah.

241
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Did you make something up?

242
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She dropped it.

243
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She just kind of got disgusted at me because she knew I had went to the pool.

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I think my mom was just going through such a hard time that, you know, everything's okay.

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I'm just, I'm going to move on with what I was doing kind of thing.

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But it wasn't until I got older and, you know, here I am as a grown woman, a grandmother

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myself and having this heart to heart talk with my mom just finally coming clean about

248
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it.

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Yeah.

250
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I think that's that.

251
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When did you have this heart to heart with your mom?

252
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My mom had been sick for a while and I know she was really stressing on a lot of things

253
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before she had passed away.

254
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She just passed away April 23, 2023.

255
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So we've been kind of, you know, getting ready for things.

256
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And I just wanted to comfort my mom, but I also wanted to come clean, I guess, to tell

257
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her what had happened back then.

258
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And I just wanted to know if she remembered about the wet clothes and from my mom to be

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so disgusted because yes, I remember, you know, just like trying to tell her, well, something

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happened and I need to tell you what happened.

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And that embracement, that love that my mom gave me to say that she believed me and just

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saying that you give me comfort.

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And I said, yes, God's real.

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And she goes, I know he is.

265
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And I said, he's very real and there's the life after death.

266
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And that meant a lot that I got to tell her that because she died about two years later.

267
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So she had a really bad stroke and she was getting dementia.

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She was starting to lose her mobility of talking and stuff.

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So everything happens for a reason.

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It really does.

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And just having that moment with her and then I ended going to visit her one last time and

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I had her with me for three nights and we slept in the same bed and I just comforted

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my mom.

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And then I got the call later on after that that she had passed away.

275
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So it was important.

276
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It was very important to tell her that if anything.

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I tried the church because I thought, OK, you know, I'm ready for this.

278
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I'm ready to give my life to whatever it takes because I don't know.

279
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I hear stories, you know, it's not like that.

280
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These are manmade religions.

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But I just really felt in my heart of hearts like I'm ready to give my life to God and

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any work that I do is in his name always.

283
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And that's just how I've been ever since that happened.

284
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But the church thing kind of popped my bubble on that aspect to where it kind of shut me

285
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down for a second.

286
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I'm trying to get my voice back.

287
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Tell me more about that.

288
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Were you talking to just another member of the congregation or to some kind of a minister

289
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pastor?

290
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This is such an odd situation.

291
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:50,640
So the lady that runs the church, she's also a realtor and she's this and she's that.

292
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And so it was really kind of awkward as it was kind of trying to feel comfortable to

293
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talk to them.

294
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And I waited a couple of years before I really came out.

295
00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:04,600
So I did three years, three and a half years of Bible study with them.

296
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But I came out about on the third year I had came out to talk about it because I thought,

297
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you know, we've had fellowship, we've been doing things together and, you know, going

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through this journey together.

299
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So I was putting my heart of heart out there when I went to this class where we're all

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talking, you know, and bringing out things so that way we can mend and move on.

301
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And so mine was very genuine.

302
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:36,800
I have never, I think what hurt me the most was they were looking at me like I'm some

303
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fool.

304
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And I was just, I think that was like a dagger.

305
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I felt so betrayed and like they're looking me like, yeah, right, lady, now you're just

306
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doing this or you're just making this up.

307
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And I just thought, wow, I said, you know what?

308
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And I remember looking at them going, I swear on the souls of my very grandchildren that

309
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when I'm telling you is not a lie, I remember even saying that because I felt so defensive.

310
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Like you're looking at me like I'm a liar.

311
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And I just, I was just going away.

312
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And so I just stayed quiet talking to them for a little bit and I can tell that attitudes

313
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were changing the, you know, the demeanor, a lot of gossiping starting to happen and

314
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,760
kind of being shunned away from the side a little bit.

315
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And there was this one lady that came into a Bible study after that and she says, my

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husband had a heart attack and he said he had a near death experience named Susie.

317
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And I wanted to say, Hey, I had believed him in home on it.

318
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And I got nudged like shush, like you cannot talk about this in church.

319
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It's inappropriate.

320
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I'm thinking, wow.

321
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So then I just lost all interest after that.

322
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I literally was so disgusted and you know, it just kind of felt like the people you were

323
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:54,560
trying to make friends.

324
00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:56,160
I didn't even care if we were friends anymore.

325
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I just, I didn't care if I ever saw them again.

326
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It was just like, they, they took something so genuine for me that I just really, I just

327
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don't even want to talk to them.

328
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If I see men in store, I go the other way.

329
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I don't know.

330
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It's just, it changed something in me and I'm still trying to process that as well.

331
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:14,480
So.

332
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:23,040
I don't want to tell any ministers, pastors how to do their job, but I'm going to throw

333
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,360
in a butt here.

334
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:27,520
There's nothing wrong with listening.

335
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Just listen.

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And if someone really believes something happened to them, even if it doesn't jive with your

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00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:41,080
faith exactly, it's okay to acknowledge it and to listen to them and let them know that

338
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:46,520
you love them and, and it's okay to tell them, hey, I don't understand this.

339
00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:47,520
Yeah.

340
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:48,520
Right.

341
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:53,560
Versus telling them that it's wrong and what happened to them didn't happen.

342
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,880
It really takes away from someone and I, I really think that it's really important to

343
00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,880
listen to people.

344
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:03,440
You know, we hear a lot of stories all the time and I, I took my time.

345
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,360
I let, I dove into Ion's website.

346
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:12,400
I literally dove into there and read so many testimonies and, you know, looking up people

347
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,720
on YouTube and getting to see and trying to be friends with these people on Facebook because

348
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:21,000
I feel like I don't feel like I'm like, I don't belong here.

349
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It just feels like I'm not, I'm different from everybody else.

350
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:30,520
But when I found these new people in my life that have had near death experiences, that

351
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,280
sense of belonging, that's a very unique feeling.

352
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:39,080
And just to have that little community of people that even if you don't talk on a daily

353
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,640
basis, just that little connection means so much.

354
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,720
It really does make a difference.

355
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:51,520
So I think what you're doing is really important and it's a message and I'm willing to take

356
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:56,760
this on regardless of what people think or the comments that might come into play about

357
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:58,320
what I'm saying.

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It's coming from a genuine heart place and I just really want people to know and these

359
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:09,280
days that we are in that just take comfort in knowing that there is life after death

360
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:15,480
and that we do move on and that there's more to what we know and that they should really

361
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,280
probably try to look into themselves and maybe try to make some changes.

362
00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,360
And I don't think that's in conflict with any religion that I know of.

363
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:25,360
No, no.

364
00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:28,560
The fact that there is life after death.

365
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:29,960
There is a God.

366
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:30,960
Okay.

367
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:31,960
Yeah.

368
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,000
And if it puts it all into perspective, you really want to start doing good.

369
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:40,200
So I changed what I used to do for a living and now I take care of seniors in a senior

370
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:48,040
park and I just had a big barbecue last just over the weekend, feeding 74 people.

371
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:55,640
So it just kind of changes your life and all I want to do is just continue on this path

372
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,440
until my end of days and I'm fine with that.

373
00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,960
I'm just trying to find my way through this.

374
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:08,440
I'm trying to look into meditation right now because I feel like I need to find a special

375
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:09,600
place to do that.

376
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:14,880
So that's the next thing I'm going to start trying to practice myself is some meditations

377
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:15,880
and stuff.

378
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:21,800
On this same line of the advice that I just didn't give to religious leaders.

379
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:22,800
Yeah.

380
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:28,520
How about for those people and especially for parents?

381
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:34,240
If something like this happens to your child or a small or a child that you know that has

382
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:39,560
been through something like this and is willing to open up and tell you, how should they deal

383
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:40,560
with it?

384
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,960
What should they say to this child?

385
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,920
What would have been good for you way back when you were five?

386
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:51,920
If my mom went not a brushed off the fact that there was wet clothes and the fact that

387
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,560
it was early in the morning and the fact that I went outside at the house, unlocked the

388
00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:01,040
door and went outside, I really think she should have dove in there more and asked me

389
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,880
some questions because I know I would have told her.

390
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,400
I would have said, well, I got saved by the voice.

391
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,400
I would have told her what had happened.

392
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:16,040
I would have been completely honest with my mom and just having even if it was 48 years

393
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:24,040
later that I'm telling my mom the story, she asked questions and she asked me, well, did

394
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,480
you even, she's asking me questions like, well, what were you doing?

395
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:28,720
Were you in a lot of pain?

396
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:29,720
What was happening?

397
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:34,120
And I said, well, at first, yes, I wasn't in a lot of pain because I was needing to desperately

398
00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:35,520
breathe air.

399
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:41,960
And I said, I was feeling like I was saying I was giving up kind of thing like, okay,

400
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:47,040
and being a little girl and realizing you're going to die, that was kind of a different

401
00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:48,040
story too.

402
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:54,120
I think just having comfort and love to your child, let them talk about it.

403
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:59,120
I don't necessarily think to ever recommend taking them to a priest or anyone to talk

404
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:04,680
about that, but just the love and comfort of a family member to talk to and maybe find

405
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:13,080
them resources for near death experiences because I and they do have a place about children's

406
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:14,080
death.

407
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:19,240
So that's where I placed my story to read other children's experiences of death and

408
00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:21,120
near death experiences.

409
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:25,560
And so I think I would recommend people look into those sources for sure.

410
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,080
Well, Mary Joy, I appreciate you being on with us today.

411
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,480
I know it's still not easy to talk about.

412
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:38,880
I hope you found this a place that is safe and trusting and that you can talk and that

413
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,000
it helps to talk about it.

414
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,160
It really does, Eric.

415
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:47,920
And you're the first person that I've done this story to tell you my story.

416
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:53,760
And I cannot tell you how thankful I am to have met you, Eric, and I am grateful that

417
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:59,000
you are taking the time to listen to me because it means the world to me.

418
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:04,240
And I know that God will shine on you too for taking the time to do this for people.

419
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:05,240
It means a lot.

420
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:06,240
It really does.

421
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,720
Oh, you are so sweet.

422
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,640
Anything last thing that you'd like to say to everybody?

423
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,040
Just keep doing good.

424
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,600
Keep doing good to others.

425
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:15,600
Try to show love.

426
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,760
That's what God's all about is love.

427
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:22,960
And if we could just take the time to stop being so angry and letting politics and everything

428
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,120
else get in the way, we need to mend.

429
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:30,040
We need to love each other and we need to find a way to respect each other.

430
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:34,520
That's what I would say.

431
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,480
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.

432
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,520
If you've had a roundtrip test experience, we would love to hear from you.

433
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,920
Send an email to eric at roundtriptest.com.

434
00:25:44,920 --> 00:26:12,120
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.