1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,480 From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes. 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:13,440 They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped. 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,120 And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,320 physical body because I was somewhere else. 5 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:27,400 The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't 6 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:29,400 anything else to be felt. 7 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,520 I was greeted by people I had known in the past. 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,160 I'm back home again. 9 00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:39,040 Incredibly safe and felt at home. 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,480 I'd like to welcome everybody to Round Trip Death today and especially to our special 11 00:00:43,480 --> 00:00:49,520 guest, Analoha to Kathy Forty, who is on the beautiful Islet of Maui. 12 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:50,920 Good morning. 13 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:52,240 Oh, good morning, Eric. 14 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:55,200 Thank you for having me. 15 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,320 And if you don't mind, I'm going to just mention that you're in the Wailaea area because 16 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,440 it's, I love that part of the island. 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,040 It's like perfect weather all year around. 18 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,480 True. 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,200 And not all of Maui is that way. 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:11,920 There can be a lot of rain and things. 21 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:12,920 Yeah, right. 22 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:14,920 Upcountry is very rainy. 23 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,640 It has so many different thermal climbs in Maui in general. 24 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,160 So yeah, but we're dry down here. 25 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,440 We're going to be talking about your near-death experience. 26 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:30,280 I would love to hear just briefly a little bit about your background because I know you're 27 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:34,680 a writer who also had a near-death experience. 28 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,400 Tell us a little bit about you and about your books. 29 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:39,880 Oh, okay. 30 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,920 Well, I'm working, I think this will be my sixth book now. 31 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,320 Years ago I wrote metaphysical children's books. 32 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:53,640 And then after my near-death experience, I wrote Fractals of God, a psychologist near-death 33 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,520 experience and journeys into the mystical. 34 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:57,480 Yes, I know it's a very long title. 35 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,240 And you are a PhD, by the way, right? 36 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,120 That's correct, a clinical psychologist. 37 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:08,920 And so I did that basically because so many people were asking because of my technology 38 00:02:08,920 --> 00:02:11,640 and everything, well, how did this all start? 39 00:02:11,640 --> 00:02:14,040 So I really thought, oh, this is just for them. 40 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:22,000 I didn't think that it would go on and speak to people in many other ways about the very 41 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:30,200 metaphysical and spiritual and unusual experiences because I pretty much had unusual experiences 42 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,160 my entire life. 43 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:39,040 So I did that book and then did some software, made some software, invented some software. 44 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:43,840 And then the second, I guess the third chapter of my life now, I don't know. 45 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:49,040 I started writing sci-fi novels, which everybody says aren't really sci-fi. 46 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:50,840 I mean, they're not really fictional. 47 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,720 They're nonfiction sci-fi. 48 00:02:53,720 --> 00:03:01,280 And I was able to actually put some of my otherworldly experiences in my sci-fi books. 49 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:06,680 And so there's three of them out now, Stacks Library of Truth, Stacks Awakening Truth, 50 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:08,160 and Stacks Truth Will Such You Free. 51 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,600 And now I'm working on the fourth one in the series. 52 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,840 So Stacks Next Generation Truth. 53 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,760 I think that's really cool because we have a lot of people on the show who have written, 54 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:24,040 who are not authors, but have written a book about their near-death experience. 55 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:29,800 You're a sci-fi writer that's taken some of what happened in your experience and then 56 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:31,640 put it into these stories. 57 00:03:31,640 --> 00:03:35,560 And I haven't read them yet, but they sound pretty cool to me. 58 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,720 If you don't mind, and I'm going to warn our listeners up front. 59 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,720 If this next part is boring to you, just skip right ahead. 60 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:50,240 But because you live in Maui, and this is being recorded early in September of 2023, 61 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:51,360 by the way. 62 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,280 So we are how many weeks after the fires in Lahaina? 63 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,160 Well, it happened on August 8th. 64 00:03:58,160 --> 00:03:59,720 So we're almost a month. 65 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,320 So almost a month. 66 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,160 But you were living there through all of it. 67 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:09,320 I know why Leia is, what, 30 or 40 miles away from there. 68 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:13,160 It's about 30 minutes drive to Lahaina. 69 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:18,840 But tell us what it's been like for someone living on the island and where were you that 70 00:04:18,840 --> 00:04:19,840 day? 71 00:04:19,840 --> 00:04:23,320 Well, as it happens, I didn't sleep well the night before. 72 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,040 I felt something was in the air. 73 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,240 And afterwards I talked with a lot of people and they had very restless sleep the night 74 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:31,240 before. 75 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,240 And I was getting this very strange flooding sensation in my head. 76 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:41,480 And I know that to be energy, something that's being directed energy and so forth like that. 77 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,040 But I didn't put two and two together. 78 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,920 And a friend of mine called me because we were supposed to go up to Kula that day, up 79 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:48,920 country. 80 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,360 And they said, no, you got to turn around because there's fires up in Kula. 81 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:55,120 So a friend said, you know, I'm getting a really strong urge to go to Lahaina today. 82 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,440 And I hadn't had that on my schedule. 83 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,120 And so I said, OK, I'll go with you. 84 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:05,360 And we got stopped right outside Lahaina on the Lahaina bypass. 85 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:10,160 The at this spot 1030 in the morning before all the big fires really started. 86 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,120 But everything was closed. 87 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,360 The power was down that you couldn't get any internet service. 88 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:16,560 Nobody knew what was going on. 89 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:19,480 And the wind started coming up and trees were falling down. 90 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:25,200 In fact, I had just gotten out of the car and had to find a place to go to the bathroom 91 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:26,840 and nothing was open. 92 00:05:26,840 --> 00:05:32,880 So you know, I went behind a tree and I a few minutes later, I just passed the tree 93 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:34,440 and I heard this crash behind me. 94 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,440 And the whole tree was uprooted and came out and came, you know, fell where I would have 95 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,040 been minutes earlier. 96 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:42,560 That would have been embarrassing. 97 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:43,560 Yeah. 98 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,520 What a lonely soul. 99 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:48,120 I shouldn't make light of it. 100 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,560 So did you so do you didn't see any of the fire you turned around and went back? 101 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:57,680 No, the problem was that we couldn't get onto Front Street, no matter what, everything 102 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:58,680 was blocked off. 103 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:00,480 And this is 1030 a.m. already. 104 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:07,560 There had been an earlier fire up in Lahaina, Luna Road by the high school up there. 105 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,360 And the kids were all told to stay home. 106 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,440 And so all that's why all the kids were home and nobody was working. 107 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:15,640 No stores were open. 108 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,200 Nothing was open, you know. 109 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:21,200 And since we couldn't get on Front Street, which we wanted to go to this particular restaurant 110 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:26,960 there was always my favorite cool cats restaurant best thing veggie burgers in town. 111 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,680 And I said, you know, these feel like hurricane force. 112 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,000 I've been in a hurricane before, but there's no rain. 113 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,520 This is very strange. 114 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:39,440 And so we thought, you know, with the trees starting to come down and sometimes poles 115 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,160 were starting to come down, we said, you know, maybe we better go over to Conopolly. 116 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:44,640 That was the next town over. 117 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:50,480 Maybe they don't have this disconnect with communication, you know, sell and so forth 118 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:51,480 like that. 119 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:52,480 So we went over there. 120 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,040 They're all their lights, all their power was out as well. 121 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:57,920 And everything was backed up on the highway. 122 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,400 I said, I said, this is going to take hours to get back home. 123 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,440 You know, I'm not going to sit in a line there. 124 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,040 And thankfully my friend knew the back way around the island. 125 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,360 I had never done it. 126 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,720 It's it's it's beautiful, but harrowing. 127 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:12,560 It's like goes down one lane. 128 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:13,560 I've done it. 129 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,520 It is so scary. 130 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,320 Yes. 131 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:23,440 With heights bother you at all, do not take that route because you're on a one lane and 132 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,560 it's what a thousand or two thousand foot cliff off the side. 133 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:28,560 Yes. 134 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,880 And, you know, people are going both ways and and people were still already starting 135 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:33,880 to escape. 136 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,120 Now we didn't we didn't know about the fires because like I said, there was a communication 137 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:38,120 blackout. 138 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,520 We couldn't see anything on our phones. 139 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:42,440 The internet wasn't working. 140 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:48,560 And so I had left Wilea about nine thirty in the morning and I did not get home till 141 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,680 five thirty. 142 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,960 That's how long it took to get around the island and home. 143 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:58,040 And we still did not know what was going on, except there's a power outage and you've 144 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,520 got some strong winds. 145 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:05,760 And you know, it wasn't until later that day that, you know, all the all everything that 146 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,080 could go wrong did go wrong. 147 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:11,880 And so I started because I, you know, I knew my experience there. 148 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:18,480 I kind of knew the timeline of when power was not in and when I didn't see any fires 149 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:19,480 and so forth. 150 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,600 So people started interviewing me as kind of like a first responder. 151 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:29,680 A friend of mine is very involved with the hungry heroes, Hawaii, which feeds people. 152 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,360 They used to feed the homeless and now they're feeding everybody from Lahaina. 153 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:39,240 And so we raised over three hundred thousand dollars for that organization, you know, for 154 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:43,560 me doing interviews and things like that and talking about it, what I said. 155 00:08:43,560 --> 00:08:49,160 And I'll tell you straight out, you know, you know, nothing added up that day, nothing 156 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:50,480 added up. 157 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:55,840 And when I got to Lahaina, I was feeling that flooding sensation again in my head. 158 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:59,840 I don't know, people can say, but I know what I know what energy feels like. 159 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:01,360 And that's what I was experiencing. 160 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:05,680 Of course, you had no way of knowing what was coming. 161 00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:08,400 Nobody did such a horrible disaster. 162 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,920 What was it like being there when you got the news? 163 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:14,000 Could you see smoke from where you were? 164 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:19,560 No, we'd already escaped on the backside of the island, you know, before because the 165 00:09:19,560 --> 00:09:23,160 real fires didn't start until the afternoon. 166 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:29,160 And I, most people started saying around two o'clock or two thirty or something like that. 167 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:34,160 And then the wipeout really started four p.m., five p.m. through there. 168 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,280 And you know, so all those kids are missing. 169 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:42,960 And I kind of looked in on, you know, and from a spiritual point of view, what really kind 170 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:44,920 of happened because so many are missing. 171 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,040 So many of them just got incinerated. 172 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:53,520 And there was like a mass soul confusion from what I could see because some of those children's 173 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:57,560 souls were ready to leave and some weren't and they didn't understand. 174 00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:03,760 And if anyone understands, when you leave under a trauma, something traumatic happens 175 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,320 and you die because of the trauma. 176 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:13,360 Really the soul is able to gather in energy to into the soul body to reclaim it and take 177 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:14,640 it with them. 178 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:16,280 And these children weren't able to do it. 179 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:21,680 So what I saw, I saw is that what there was legions, legions of what I can only call some 180 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:30,600 type of celestial beings that were coming down and helping this migration, this soul migration 181 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:31,640 out of there. 182 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,360 So the island is grieving and it'll continue. 183 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,520 There's so much sadness here. 184 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:43,000 And I can personally say that everyone I know is a dream states at night, you know, you're 185 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:48,520 picking up everybody's sadness and sorrow and anger too. 186 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,400 So it's a little rough. 187 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:55,440 You're constantly pretty much having to clear yourself of that. 188 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,000 Otherwise, you know, you just take it in and you start to feel it. 189 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,640 It's very profound. 190 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,800 That must be quite a, that's a good word for it. 191 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:06,800 A profound experience. 192 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:11,320 I imagine with your background in clinical psychology, you can also be a big help to a 193 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:13,480 lot of people there. 194 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:21,840 Well I'm going back in tomorrow and with a group grassroots group, not into the, the 195 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,120 you know, ground zero area where they fenced it all off. 196 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,600 It's sort of like, oh, you can build a water well there fast. 197 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:37,520 And under hungry heroes, Hawaii, they bring food into the area just outside, you know. 198 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:43,960 And so we are going to document a lot of people's stories there because they're getting lost, 199 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:49,520 you know, and they have, they have to grieve you some, you have to process, you know, and 200 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:56,120 sometimes it takes a lot of telling, you know, over and over your story to start to make, 201 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:01,480 you know, to assimilate that and store it in a way that, that you can. 202 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,960 So this is going to go on for quite a while. 203 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:07,880 This is not something that, oh yeah, everything will get back to normal right away. 204 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:08,880 No, no, no. 205 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,600 No, this is going to be years and years and years. 206 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,360 With the hungry heroes, I'm sorry, is that what it was called? 207 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:16,360 Hungry heroes, Hawaii. 208 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:17,840 Hungry heroes, Hawaii. 209 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,040 Would that be a good place for people to donate to? 210 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:21,040 Oh my gosh, yes. 211 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:28,040 In fact, we have people getting off the cruise ships here to volunteer a day in helping make 212 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:29,600 in the kitchen, the vegan kitchen. 213 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:30,720 So everything is fresh. 214 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,840 The local growers come in and they give, you know, excess produce and so forth. 215 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,760 So it's not canned stuff. 216 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:43,120 It's fresh food, things like, you know, like vegetable, coconut, curry over rice or things 217 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:47,800 like that, you know, and they decorate the little, little carrier things with love and 218 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,000 little good sayings and so forth like that. 219 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:55,000 So yeah, people can go to HHHMAUI.org. 220 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,680 Okay, we'll put that in the show notes too. 221 00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:01,080 Well, thank you for all of that, Kathy. 222 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,600 Let's get back to talking about you now. 223 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:09,160 Let's go back a few years ago to when you had a near-death experience. 224 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,680 Tell us a little bit about what was going on in your life or your health that may have 225 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:15,720 led up to this. 226 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,000 Well this was in 2003 and I was perfectly healthy. 227 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:24,840 I had a practice, a therapy practice in Los Angeles at the time and it was my last client 228 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,400 of the day. 229 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:32,080 Interesting enough, it was a Buddhist nun and she had said, oh, she said, tonight is 230 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,240 the night of the Weesack moon. 231 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:35,800 And I said, well, what's a Weesack moon? 232 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:40,800 She goes, oh, it's when the veils are very thin between the dimensions and anything can 233 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:41,800 happen. 234 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,800 You know, and I thought, oh, that's interesting. 235 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,800 You know, and it kind of filed it away and I didn't think much of it. 236 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:52,600 But as I'm going out leaving for the day, and I think this was an eight or nine o'clock, 237 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,760 my last client or something like that, it was late, and I was going out to the parking 238 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:03,880 lot to get my car, I felt this kind of whoosh feeling right out of my solar plexus area. 239 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,680 And with it, I immediately felt like a very strange feeling. 240 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:11,960 Like I felt tremendously empty, like all my best friends had left. 241 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,480 And it felt like I was done with my work here on earth. 242 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,320 You know, I never had that experience before. 243 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,600 I didn't know really what to make of it. 244 00:14:20,600 --> 00:14:23,200 But I was perfectly fine. 245 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,600 And you know, I went home trying to think about what is this feeling? 246 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:33,040 Why do I feel this sudden whoosh and this emptiness and feeling like am I getting ready 247 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:34,040 to die? 248 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,800 Because if I'm getting ready to die, you know, it's, or if I'm not getting ready to die and 249 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:42,840 I have to feel like this, this emptiness, this is not going to be good. 250 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:48,360 So as I'm analyzing this, and I've got a cup of tea in my hand, and the next thing I 251 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:56,960 saw a swirling vortex in my head, and I was sucked into this vortex, horizontal feet first, 252 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:01,360 and I could see it was a tunnel and there was light. 253 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,160 And you know, immediately I thought, Oh, gosh, is this the tunnel everybody's been talking 254 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:06,160 about? 255 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:07,640 And then the next thought was, did I die? 256 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:08,640 What did I die of? 257 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,840 I wasn't sick, you know? 258 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:16,240 All these kind of strange sometimes thoughts go through your head. 259 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:20,000 And I realized, well, if I died, there was not much I was going to be able to do about 260 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:21,000 it. 261 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:22,360 So let's go see what it was all about. 262 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,880 But before I could go into the light, I was stopped. 263 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,640 I came to like a screeching alt. 264 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:31,360 And it wasn't really a screech, but I came to a halt and abrupt halt and I couldn't go 265 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:37,120 into the light and I tried to will myself into it, but it wasn't, I wasn't able to do 266 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:38,120 it. 267 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:42,680 And I remember at the time thinking, you know, well, this is boring, you know, it's like 268 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,800 I'm just sitting here waiting for like a bus. 269 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,360 First you were really curious, seems like. 270 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:49,360 Now it's boring. 271 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:50,360 I can't go anywhere. 272 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:51,360 Now you're bored. 273 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:52,360 Yeah. 274 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:53,360 Well, that didn't take long. 275 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:54,360 It didn't take long. 276 00:15:54,360 --> 00:16:01,640 You know, you just find a kind of holiday spots kind of go through your head and and and as 277 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,520 I thought, Oh, this is boring. 278 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:11,080 And all of this energy poured into me was like an implosion of energy into my chest area. 279 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:16,480 And I got spun back around and sent back through the tunnel the same way very fast. 280 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,080 And I found myself back in my physical body and my whole left side was paralyzed. 281 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,240 I couldn't move. 282 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:28,680 And I remember knowing at that moment in time, because I heard voices in my head, had saying 283 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:30,720 breathe, Kathy, breathe. 284 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:35,000 And I knew that for some reason my heart had stopped and whoever these voices were trying 285 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:39,520 to get me to breathe back breathe back life into my physical form. 286 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,720 And of course, you know, there wasn't much I could do. 287 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,640 There was nobody there with me at the time. 288 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,840 I spilled my tea all over me. 289 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:53,280 And so I just paid attention and they kept saying, relax, relax, everything will be okay. 290 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:59,680 And I could feel this kind of cooking it on my left side of my body as if they were connecting 291 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:05,240 it back to my physical, you know, the nerves, the muscles, the whatever. 292 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:11,040 And as I hearing this clicking in my head while they're doing it, I'm able to feel again 293 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:12,480 in my left side. 294 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,680 But I still had this pressure in my chest. 295 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:20,080 And realizing my heart had stopped for some reason, which I still don't know why. 296 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,960 I remember thinking I'm going to have to go see a cardiologist. 297 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:27,080 And the voices said to me, nope, you don't really need to do that. 298 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:28,520 Everything's going to be all fine. 299 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:35,240 But within 24 hours of coming back from this, this, this experience, I was suddenly obsessed 300 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:36,440 with quantum physics. 301 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,760 I was getting up in the middle of the night, you know, between three and four a.m. with 302 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,680 all these thoughts going through my head. 303 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:48,200 When I go to, I'd go to my practice the next day, I was feeling everybody's emotion, which 304 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,000 I didn't understand. 305 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,440 And that was very uncomfortable. 306 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:54,800 And so this was going on night after night. 307 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:55,800 And I was getting on. 308 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,160 I was looking at things on that, that all these thoughts going through my head that I really 309 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,680 never had before and, and, and researching them on the internet. 310 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:09,120 And the interesting thing was I was understanding them, which I didn't really have a knowledge 311 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:10,800 of some of this stuff. 312 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:16,160 Then I heard these voices kind of correcting things as if, well, that's not totally true. 313 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:22,000 But that's kind of as far as your understanding, your race's understanding is it right now. 314 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:27,920 So this went on night after night, and so I finally contacted a friend of mine who's 315 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,440 a very gifted, a medical intuitive and a visionary. 316 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:36,480 And he'd worked with me on very difficult cases in the past with clients permission. 317 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:40,560 And he could look behind the scenes and see what was happening on a soul level with them 318 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:47,040 so that I could navigate whatever their issues were in a way that, you know, was easier for 319 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:48,040 them. 320 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,360 That was all I only brought him in when I was really a tough case. 321 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:54,320 And he didn't need to know anything about it, just need their name and their permission. 322 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:58,320 And so I just said, I called him and I said, would you look and see, you know, behind the 323 00:18:58,320 --> 00:18:59,320 scenes with me. 324 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:03,880 And he took a while and he came back and he said, well, you almost died. 325 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:06,280 He said, but all your old guides left. 326 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,960 And I think that was that whoosh feeling and that emptiness afterwards. 327 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,560 He says, you will have a whole new set of guides. 328 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:17,920 They're very technologically oriented, kind of geeky. 329 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,720 And I, and my first thought was, what do they want? 330 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,480 And he said, he said, this was a soul decision. 331 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,120 He said it was easy, you know, in essence, it was easy, I guess, to make this transition 332 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:28,120 with this. 333 00:19:28,120 --> 00:19:33,680 He said, this new guidance coming into me within the tunnel, which I come to see as an energy 334 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,120 conversion tunnel, you know, from one dimension to the next. 335 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:43,520 But and so he said, they said that you're going to invent something. 336 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,680 It looks kind of like a medical software or some medical device. 337 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:48,680 And I laughed. 338 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,400 And I said, I don't think so. 339 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,000 You know, I don't have any experience in that. 340 00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:00,720 I'm going to pause you here for just a minute because we can, we can talk all about that. 341 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,520 And I think it's fascinating. 342 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:08,320 Let's, let's get to a little bit more detail about this leaving your body though first 343 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:12,560 before we talk quantum physics, which I think is fascinating because so many people bring 344 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,720 it up that have had NDEs, as you know. 345 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:21,200 So did you ever find out if there was something medically, did you have a permanent heart 346 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:22,640 problem or anything like that? 347 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,760 Or was this just a one time event? 348 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:32,240 No, I didn't find out till years later, you know, what happened. 349 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,400 And I didn't find out till the COVID years. 350 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:38,640 And I got COVID before everybody, about two months before everybody else, you know, because 351 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:43,000 I was, I was at a gem show in Tucson, Arizona, and everybody from around the world was there 352 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,600 and everybody was touching things and I remember thinking, oh, this is a really nasty flu. 353 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,400 And this was January of 2020. 354 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,760 So you know, it took a while to get through, but I was fine, you know, but I was wheezing 355 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:55,760 a bit. 356 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,040 So I went, did go to a cardiologist. 357 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,080 And I didn't tell him about ever having near death experience. 358 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,080 He goes, he said, I don't know how to explain this. 359 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:08,840 He said, he said, but you have some scar tissue around the left side of your heart. 360 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:13,760 And he, and I, you know, I asked him, well, what would cause something like that? 361 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:21,040 You know, and he goes, you know, a heart attack or cardio infarction or something like that. 362 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:25,400 And then I thought back to the near death experience in 2003. 363 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:26,400 And this was it. 364 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:32,120 I didn't, I didn't know I had some something left over from it, but it never affected me 365 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:33,120 physically. 366 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:39,440 I mean, it never affected me, you know, my stamina or, or, or athletically or so forth 367 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:40,440 like that. 368 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:46,280 But there was this, the physical evidence of it that remained hidden all those years. 369 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:52,040 So during the experience, you leave your body, you're, we're talking about this tunnel. 370 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,000 Did you get through to the other end? 371 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,560 Was your experience in that area the whole time? 372 00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,280 I got as far as the light. 373 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:00,280 Okay. 374 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:01,520 And I couldn't go into the light. 375 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:05,320 I mean, you know, they kind of said, well, you know, it's like you weren't meant to go 376 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:06,320 into the light. 377 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,200 You were only really meant to have an energy exchange, I guess. 378 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:11,200 Yeah. 379 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,720 You know, and my guess is it probably if I'd gone into light, maybe I would have decided 380 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,280 not to come back. 381 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:17,640 Very possibly. 382 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:19,520 Were you hearing anything or just learn? 383 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:24,680 I mean, you're, you're describing to me things that came to you where they put in your head, 384 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,640 tell me how this communication happened. 385 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:28,480 You mean the voices? 386 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:29,480 Yeah. 387 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:30,480 Yeah. 388 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:31,480 I would actually hear voices. 389 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:36,240 I would, I'd actually hear voices in my head, which I'd joke and say, that's not good for 390 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,920 a psychologist to hear voices. 391 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,120 Were there a lot of voices? 392 00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:41,120 What were they like? 393 00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:43,720 No, no. 394 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:49,000 It was like one voice that represented several beings. 395 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,960 I mean, if that makes sense, but I felt like there were several beings, but it was one 396 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:55,240 voice. 397 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,320 And it was a very reassuring voice. 398 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:02,720 I mean, I didn't, they actually got me to calm down because I, you know, I'm thinking to 399 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,320 myself, I'm paralyzed. 400 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:09,120 I can't move my left side of my body, you know, and nobody's here to help me. 401 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:10,840 You know, this was in 2003. 402 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,480 I don't know if I had the cell phone there. 403 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,480 It's like, I have to go back and think when did cell phones really start? 404 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:24,160 So I wasn't able to get to a phone to, to get help, but they pretty much told me it's 405 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,160 okay. 406 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:26,160 Don't worry about it. 407 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:27,160 Just relax. 408 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:28,160 We'll take care of it. 409 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:29,400 We'll talk more about the voices. 410 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,640 See, now I'm putting you on the couch and you're going to tell me. 411 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,400 No, really. 412 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,000 Were you surprised to hear voices? 413 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,400 Was it a calming thing? 414 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:40,800 Oh, gosh. 415 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:41,800 Yes. 416 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:42,800 Yes. 417 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:47,520 But it wasn't, it wasn't alarming except the fact is, well, whose voice is that? 418 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:51,080 You know, why, why, why, it didn't sound like my voice. 419 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,840 I can't necessarily say, I didn't necessarily sound like a male or female voice. 420 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,720 It was just a voice. 421 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:03,000 You know, it just felt like I needed to follow that voice and that voice knew more than I 422 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,320 did. 423 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,400 And because there was nobody else there to help me, I just followed it. 424 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,040 And when I started to hear that clicking in my head as they were reconnecting the left 425 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:15,880 side of my body, and I realized that they were, they were doing something that I needed 426 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,280 to have done and I was just going to trust them. 427 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:24,320 The whole thing was, even after the experience, it became a lesson in trust because of some 428 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,440 of the information they started giving me and so forth that meant I didn't have access 429 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:29,440 to. 430 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,440 Sometimes, sometimes I'd hear the voice in my head. 431 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,920 Sometimes I would get pictures. 432 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,160 Sometimes I'd just get downloads of just, you know, just of information that, that I 433 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,040 didn't seem to have in my own memory banks prior to that. 434 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,560 So, you know, people always ask, well, what form did it? 435 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,920 Well, it came in like a few different forms. 436 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,720 And, but, you know, there was a few times where they definitely gave me a picture. 437 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,760 They looked inside my memory for something that I could relate to and showed me a picture 438 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:57,760 of it. 439 00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,560 During that experience or since then? 440 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:00,800 No, since then. 441 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:01,800 Since then. 442 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:02,800 Tell me about the clicking. 443 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,640 I don't really get the clicking. 444 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,360 Were they, were they actually fixing something in your physical body and that was what you 445 00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:10,760 were hearing? 446 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:16,160 That's what I was hearing as they were reconnecting the left side of my body, you know, to, to 447 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,200 have mobility and feel again because it, I couldn't feel it. 448 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,840 It was, it felt paralyzed. 449 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,600 I couldn't move. 450 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,920 And the clicking in my head was a really weird sensation. 451 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:33,120 It was like, I mean, you know, it's, and so I'm not quite sure how they did it because 452 00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,120 I couldn't see. 453 00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:39,680 I mean, it was on, on an aetheric level, but they were, they, it was like they were performing 454 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,880 some type of spiritual surgery or something like that. 455 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,480 That's the only thing I can, I can, you know, get into that, that they knew that I had to 456 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:53,160 be put back because I couldn't function the way I was presently. 457 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:59,760 And, but I do remember having impressed upon my, my, my mind that your heart had stopped. 458 00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,520 And that's when they, when I was hearing it, originally the voices, the voices originally 459 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,040 said to me, breathe, Kathy, breathe. 460 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:09,120 And that was the first, my first introduction to the voice. 461 00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:10,120 This is interesting. 462 00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:12,480 This is a very unusual experience. 463 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:20,280 I don't know that I remember having talked to anyone who said they had some kind of spirits 464 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:25,480 actually fixing their physical body and they had, and they had some kind of recollection 465 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,360 or knowing that it was happening. 466 00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:29,160 That's, that's really interesting. 467 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:34,120 Well, I never come across anyone who had that kind of whoosh feeling out of their solar 468 00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:35,120 plexus either. 469 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:36,120 Yeah. 470 00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:40,240 And then all that, all my old guides had left and I had new ones now, you know, I mean, 471 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,240 I never read anything like that in literature as well. 472 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,000 I mean, I'm sure somebody out there probably had something like that, but I've never read 473 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:48,000 it. 474 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,920 I've heard some similar things, but it wasn't some kind of guides leaving. 475 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:58,240 It was that person spirit leaving their body and they either felt or heard or both something 476 00:26:58,240 --> 00:26:59,920 as they left the body. 477 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:00,920 Yeah. 478 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:02,760 So I just, I don't know what to make of this. 479 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,080 I think it's interesting and fascinating. 480 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,920 What else can you explain about it? 481 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:12,520 It left a profound sense of emptiness when, when that, it left, you know, that whoosh 482 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,720 feeling as I, you know, was I was going towards my car. 483 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:17,720 Yeah. 484 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,440 It was, it was, it was profoundly a profound sense of emptiness. 485 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:27,080 And you know, I didn't realize that, you know, I had, I was so connected to whatever 486 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:32,640 my guidance was that when they all decided to leave to prepare for, for these new guidance 487 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,400 coming in that it would feel this way. 488 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,320 You know, there's just some things that you just can't read about, you know, you just 489 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:39,680 have to experience them. 490 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:40,680 Sure. 491 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:44,320 And you may not know the answer to these, but I'm going to ask anyway, why do you think 492 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,640 they would leave? 493 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,320 Was there some big change in your life going on? 494 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:55,080 Well, as, as when, when I brought in the medical intuitive and he looked behind the scenes, 495 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,840 he's the one that also confirmed your old guidance left. 496 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,040 They're making room for this new guidance to come in. 497 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:03,040 Right. 498 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:08,240 And new guidance were these, these kind of nerd guys. 499 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,520 And when we talked previously, you told me more, we didn't even have time to get into 500 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:19,560 this today, but you ended up inventing some things, some software products, that kind 501 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,400 of thing. 502 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,520 But tell me about quantum physics. 503 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:28,280 How does quantum physics fit in this whole spiritual realm of things? 504 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,200 Is there any way you can encapsulate that in a brief statement that's not going to be 505 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:33,920 clear over my head somewhere? 506 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:41,200 Well, in all I can say is that it, it, it nudges you to think outside the box that, that there's 507 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:47,600 much more about the universe, about spirit, spirits, about the soul that we just don't 508 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,440 all understand. 509 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:54,480 And that they were trying to show me that, that basically we're all unlimited. 510 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,040 And we're only limited by our own belief system, which, you know, is kind of good therapy 511 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,680 anyway to, you know, that's like, we always sabotage ourselves. 512 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:08,640 But you know, they were, I wasn't, I was somewhat interested, but not, not in depth interested 513 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:14,080 about this subject matter prior to my experience, because it was very scientific. 514 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,400 And you know, it's sort of like very dry. 515 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,640 And thought, yeah, you know, it's sort of, let's leave that for the sciences. 516 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:26,400 But one thing that they did impress upon me, which I had no idea about was that everything 517 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,840 in the universe has a mathematical signature to it. 518 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,240 Everything is mathematically coded, even our DNA. 519 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,120 And that if we really needed to want to just speak to it in a language it understood, we 520 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,440 have to, we had to use math. 521 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,760 That was the whole thing behind, they wanted me to create something that dealt with the 522 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:49,920 science of fractals that dealt with certain frequencies that dealt with information that 523 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,400 was all mathematically coded. 524 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:56,360 And you know, I'm thinking to myself, oh my God, you know, this is not what I was 525 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:01,920 signed up for, but it wasn't until I finally said, okay, I fought it for a long time because 526 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,960 I just thought this is not something that I feel confident in doing. 527 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,240 And why didn't you bring it to somebody who was good in math? 528 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,480 Because you know, I'm, I was good in a lot of subjects, but math was not the subject 529 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:14,640 I was good in school. 530 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,960 In fact, I can truthfully say I was a math dummy. 531 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:23,240 You know, when they start bringing in the new math, I was totally lost, you know. 532 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:28,920 And so I didn't really understand that and I thought, you know, is this a cosmic joke? 533 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,600 They want to give me some project to do that deals with math. 534 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:38,320 Then I kind of found out later it was because I didn't have any preconceptions about math, 535 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,840 like saying, oh, well, that won't work or this won't work, that I was much more malleable 536 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,160 to create something, you know, with just their instructions. 537 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:53,200 So yeah, it was, it used crystal rods, transmission through crystal rods plugged into computers. 538 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:54,200 Signal boxes. 539 00:30:54,200 --> 00:31:00,680 I mean, there was, there was so many aspects to this and it took five years to develop 540 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,080 this and I'm thinking like, this is like insanity. 541 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,160 You know, I understand when people create software. 542 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:13,040 I mean, I, I channeled through everything that they were talking about the algorithms, 543 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,960 the mathematical stuff and so forth, but I had to find somebody who could actually put 544 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,920 it into computer language. 545 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,080 That I was not willing to start learning. 546 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,640 So yeah, it took about five years and I, and it turned out to be the first version was 547 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:32,160 the Trinity eight and then I brought through another software version that's all spiritual 548 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,960 called Ascension 11 a number of years later after that. 549 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:36,960 And it just took off. 550 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:41,720 I mean, I didn't know if, you know, I thought, I thought, dear God, do not send me out of 551 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:43,440 fool's mission. 552 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,600 Because I was using all of my inheritance. 553 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:51,800 My father and my parents died shortly after within a year's time after my near death experience 554 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:58,520 and they left me money, which I found out later was one of their acts of it was prearranged 555 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,200 that I would have that available to me. 556 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:06,440 So I just put all of it into developing this because it's sort of like became an Erika 557 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,160 magnificent obsession. 558 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:09,800 I could not walk away from it. 559 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,040 Yeah, I understand. 560 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:12,040 Yeah. 561 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:15,920 So with everything that you've learned about math, quantum physics, all of these things 562 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:21,640 that you're explaining, how does that apply to what is going to happen to me? 563 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,160 And you, after we die? 564 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,480 Well, this is not the end, obviously. 565 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,880 You know, people in this island, even on Maui, you know, they're all afraid. 566 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,880 Are they, you know, is something else going to happen here or COVID? 567 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:36,200 Are we going to die from this? 568 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,520 Truthfully, one thing that most near death experiencers have in common is that they're 569 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:45,160 not afraid of dying, you know, because it's a very easy transition, you know, it's sort 570 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:46,560 of like going to sleep. 571 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,160 But you get out of your body, you just don't come back. 572 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,360 You're infinite beings, and this is just, you know, it's sort of like Shakespeare strutting 573 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:59,000 and fretting our hour upon the stage here on earth, you know, trying to learn whatever 574 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:03,280 we can to our soul growth. 575 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,920 I mean, I'm not telling you anything that you haven't heard before, at least in that 576 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:08,920 respect. 577 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:13,480 But, you know, you realize that we're all connected. 578 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:18,040 You know, we may feel like they may have tried to divide us on every issue you can possibly 579 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,120 think of, but in the end, we are all connected. 580 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,160 Explain what you mean by that. 581 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,400 What does it mean that we are all connected? 582 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,880 Well, there's a little part of Kathy in everybody else. 583 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,440 There were times that I was driving down the road the freeway, and I'd look over the car 584 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,800 next to me and I'd say, that's Kathy. 585 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:39,560 That's another form of Kathy. 586 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:43,200 That's, but this one is, looks like she's maybe not be having a good day. 587 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,000 This one's putting on her makeup. 588 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:52,360 This one's kind of ticked off, but that we were all connected on a soul level. 589 00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:58,720 So yeah, it was sort of like that, you know, after a while, there was like no boundaries, 590 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:01,760 you know, spiritual boundaries between people. 591 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,200 And I had more of those feelings when after my near-death experience when it was more 592 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:06,200 fresher. 593 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,600 I mean, now, you know, we kind of put down our every day we have filters we put in place 594 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,400 because we need to get things done. 595 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:20,200 But you know, there are times when I'm just, you know, I feel we've forgotten, we've forgotten 596 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,480 that we're all connected. 597 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:22,480 Yeah, absolutely. 598 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,160 Okay, here's a big question for your opinion. 599 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,920 How does the concept of God fit into all of this? 600 00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,040 People call God different things, source, creator. 601 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,120 I mean, doesn't really matter, you know, it's where we all came from. 602 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:43,320 And we were all just energy until we broke into matter and form. 603 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:48,160 And some of us got lost in our creativity in the dimensions and got kind of stuck into 604 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:54,160 matter and some souls from what I've seen had to kind of come down and help in that 605 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:55,160 stuckness. 606 00:34:55,160 --> 00:35:00,840 But, you know, we're kind of all in a different state of development. 607 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:05,000 Some may be, you know, moving a little faster along, but that doesn't mean that there's 608 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,040 anything better about them. 609 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,640 It's just that we're all in a different state, you know, and bringing that back to source. 610 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,520 I think the whole thing is, you know, I see that we're all going through working through 611 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:21,680 the dimensional levels before going back to our energy source. 612 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,000 So yeah, I just look at it as energy. 613 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:29,720 It's all about energy, maybe math too, but you're still trying not to admit the whole 614 00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:30,720 math part. 615 00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:31,720 I get it. 616 00:35:31,720 --> 00:35:33,760 I completely get it. 617 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:34,760 Okay. 618 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,000 I mean, I see it because everything is binary code. 619 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,000 All our computers are zeros and ones, all of that, you know. 620 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:48,040 And, you know, when they try to contact and leave time capsules for people in space or 621 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:54,200 other civilizations defined in the future, they always code it in math and binary code, 622 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,800 you know, because that's the universal language. 623 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:04,080 It doesn't matter what if they speak, you know, octorian or whatever, they will understand 624 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:05,080 math. 625 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,200 And that's a hard thing to picture. 626 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:09,200 Okay. 627 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:16,200 So I'm looking at you right now and I see this beautiful picture behind you of galaxies 628 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,400 and there's all this color. 629 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:25,040 It seems like so much more than just ones and zeros, you know, because it's so beautiful. 630 00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:26,040 It is. 631 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:31,520 I mean, there is beauty, but there's numbers even in colors, you know. 632 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:36,800 They're on the frequency scale too, that they resonate at a certain frequency as well, and 633 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,400 those all have numerical connotations. 634 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,000 All right. 635 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:46,320 Let's wrap up here with leaving some kind of a good message for all of our listeners. 636 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,560 It's a tough world out there right now and especially in a place like Maui. 637 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,360 What's your message of hope that comes from all these things that you've learned? 638 00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,240 Don't give in to fear. 639 00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:00,320 Fear is a great destroyer. 640 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:07,200 And they were like nothing better to cut you off from your true soul's growth by the 641 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,320 fear. 642 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,080 So there's really nothing to fear. 643 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,800 You know, sometimes it's best to kind of watch you become the observer. 644 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:17,880 I mean, I do get involved when I, you know, sort of like with the hungry heroes, Hawaii 645 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:22,480 and things like that and saying what I feel, but you know, I don't get sucked into that 646 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:23,800 fear. 647 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,120 And I'm sure that's as a result of my dear death experience because what do people fear? 648 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:32,800 Not being loved, fear being rejected and biggest fear of all dying, you know, once 649 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:38,040 you remove that, you know, the rest of it doesn't seem very important. 650 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:39,640 So how do people do that? 651 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,600 Because that sounds wonderful and it sounds easy when you put it like that. 652 00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:48,400 But if somebody's struggling, removing some of that fear, how do they do it? 653 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:49,400 Switch gears. 654 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:54,240 Switch gears into, even as a therapist, you know, what is working for you? 655 00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:55,680 What gives you joy? 656 00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,720 God do more of that because then you don't pay so much attention to the negativity or 657 00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:02,000 the fear. 658 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:03,000 Switch gears. 659 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,840 Don't get sucked into thinking about it and analyzing. 660 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:11,800 Go out there and do something that feeds your soul and feeds your creativity. 661 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,080 I do that with my books. 662 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:16,520 That was how I escaped COVID. 663 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:21,560 You know, I wrote, I created my own world and it was a productive world. 664 00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:23,360 I mean, I really liked these books. 665 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:28,760 I mean, if I could, I would get right into that world and stay there. 666 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,120 And so I fed my soul my creativity. 667 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,880 And so people find their creativity in many different forms. 668 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:40,800 But you know, I could leave total fear of the rest of the world behind because, you 669 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,880 know, you feel you're going to absorb some of that being around very fearful people. 670 00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:47,200 But you know, I didn't. 671 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,720 Maybe there's not a cut and dried answer for that. 672 00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:54,560 We all find our way, but do something that makes you feel good. 673 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:55,560 Remember that. 674 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,000 You know, sometimes even as a therapist, I would find people when they were depressed, 675 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,080 it was stopped doing the very things they love, listening to music, you know, going 676 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,520 out, you know, whatever. 677 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:06,720 And of course they feel more depressed. 678 00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:09,960 The minute you start getting them to do the things that made them feel good, you suddenly 679 00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,520 start realizing they were paying more attention to their hair. 680 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:18,040 They were putting makeup on, you know, and it was, it was bringing them out of that 681 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:19,040 state. 682 00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:24,760 And I think something like death and the fear of death, when people understand it more like 683 00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:29,760 you do, especially people that have been through these near death experiences, they understand 684 00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,280 it better than most of us by far. 685 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,400 And they realize that there, it isn't really the end. 686 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,320 It isn't just, okay, blackness, you cease to exist forever period. 687 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:48,160 I think once people understand that, then much of the fear can go away. 688 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:49,640 It's like going to sleep every night. 689 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,040 Every night we die by going to sleep. 690 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:53,040 It's the same thing. 691 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:57,360 You know, we lose consciousness and we, you know, go to another place. 692 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,480 The only difference is we don't get back into our bodies. 693 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,880 So it's as simple as that. 694 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:03,880 Okay. 695 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:04,880 Appreciate it, Kathy. 696 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,800 Keep up the good work over there on Maui. 697 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:07,800 Yeah. 698 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:08,800 Thank you. 699 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:09,800 Thank you. 700 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:10,800 Prayers for Maui. 701 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:11,800 Thank you very much. 702 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:12,800 We appreciate it. 703 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:13,800 Prayers for Maui. 704 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:18,480 Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast. 705 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,520 If you've had a round trip death experience, we would love to hear from you. 706 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,920 Send an email to Eric at roundtriptest.com. 707 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:52,920 Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.