From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
physical body because I was somewhere else.
The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
anything else to be felt.
I was greeted by people I had known in the past.
I'm back home again.
Incredibly safe and felt at home.
Just one quick note before we get started with today's interview.
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I would like to welcome to the show today our very, very, very special guest.
Robin, how are you this morning?
I am doing fantastic, a little hot out, but doing well.
Thank you.
Well, you're in Arizona, aren't you?
I am.
You're lucky you're not in the hottest part.
I know they've been in Phoenix over 110 degrees for the last three weeks.
Yeah, Mesa, Phoenix area, absolutely.
So you're what, 105 or something is all?
I guess, sir.
Okay.
Well, before we jump into your near-death experience, tell us just a little bit about
you so people can get to know you.
Sure.
I grew up in Michigan, Lansing.
I left there when it was about 1920 years old moved out to Nevada.
And ever since then, I basically lived here on the West Coast.
My seat, a little embarrassed.
This is the fun part where you can tell us anything you want and you can leave out all
the bad if you want.
There's the introvert in me.
Anyway, I got married in Nevada back in 1985 and did have a son.
And then I've worked in the field of medicine and I'm very interested in that and experienced
homelessness for a while.
So I'm understanding others in that situation.
I really, really enjoy people.
And I think that we, I don't assume, literally, and figuratively what you, someone wears
because we don't know what someone's story is and assumptions I'd rather disagree with
because nine times I attend, they're very, very wrong.
I am hopeful to work in the area of behavioral health to do de-escalation or work with a
homeless since I've experienced it myself.
I believe that all of us are the sum of our experiences, good, bad, and the ugly, and
the part we didn't take it in, the part we did.
Every day has been, you know, we have our ups and downs.
I'm now little of eight years and I've been on my own for quite a while.
Every once in a while I get lonely.
We all get lonely sometimes.
But besides that, I'm very hopeful for the future.
It's sometimes rough, but it makes us stronger.
Well, you are a sweetheart and I appreciate you being on today.
And I'm going to give our listeners kind of a heads up.
In addition to talking about near death experiences today, we're going to be talking about some
other things too that may be a little bit difficult, things like homelessness and mental
health and addiction and things like that.
So yeah, everybody take a big breath and let's jump on this roller coaster.
Take us back six years ago.
We're leading up to your, Andy.
Tell me what was going on in your life and what led up to this.
Well, actually I had lost my husband January 1st of 15 and it put me in a very downward
spiral.
I had to deal with family members and things can get kind of hairy when property and money
is involved.
And so for a good year, I was just so traumatized by the loss of him.
We were only married eight years together, about 10, but it just, I had to sell my manufactured
home three and a half months after he had passed away because I couldn't go ahead and
take care of the repairs if something were to go wrong.
And so that first year, there was a lot of ups and downs, mostly downs trying to deal
with the grief.
And I found that, you know, grief over time, it doesn't go away.
It's just how you handle it.
It becomes more and more wild, but everybody experienced grief.
But at that point, I had to get rid of my home and get rid of all my things that my
husband had had.
And I found that so many people had their hands out, but unwilling to pay anything for
it or what have you.
So I was basically in a downward spiral in my depression, to say the least, up until
February 4th of 16.
He died January 1st of 15 until my auntie, Ian, February 4th of 16.
I've been pretty much a big mess having to realize life and go on without him.
Everyone's really rough.
And I think I said six years ago.
So this was actually seven years ago then.
My auntie was seven years ago.
Yes, sir.
So what was going on with your health that led up to this?
Well, mainly just depression.
Back in the day before my auntie, I had been diagnosed with everything but schizophrenia.
So I was on a lot of medication.
I consider what was going on with me.
I was dead by breathing also.
And subsequently after my auntie, I'm now only on one medication for sleep that has
a small antidepressant.
But back then I was living in my past traumas and I partially didn't know what they were
either.
So basically I was crazy with grief and was struggling with change and that whole year.
Now you mentioned homelessness in your past.
Was that at that time or some other time?
It was after my auntie.
I actually had retained a really nice apartment with the sale of my home.
And I didn't experience homelessness till around 2018, almost 2019.
Well let's get back chronologically to where we were.
So back seven years ago, what happened to you?
Well what had been going on is that I believe I used to make meals and then put them in
the freezer and I had some chili that I had on thawed.
I believe it definitely had food poisoning.
I was throwing up and unable to have a bowel movement.
And actually food poisoning can really offset your emotions.
It can be worse than a UTI.
It can just make everything go wrong.
And so I was experiencing food poisoning the day before my NDE.
Did you want to hear about my NDE, how that happened?
Well yeah, so you had food poisoning.
Did that lead you to the hospital?
It did, yes.
So anyway what happened was, February 3rd of 2016, at about 11.30pm, I had been vomiting
really really bad.
Finally I decided I was disoriented, getting lost, what have you in the neighborhood.
So I did eventually call EMS and they came and got me and I was actively throwing up.
This is 11.30pm that I arrived at this emergency room.
Next thing I know, I'm throwing up and saying I'm unable to have a BM.
This has been a problem.
They went ahead and took some blood tests and then went ahead and shot me off to get
a CT scan of my belly to see what was going on in my bowels to see if there was a bowel
obstruction.
And so next thing I know, while I was getting my blood tests, I had asked for an anagnya
medication, something for pain.
Zofran is typically used in an ID to deal with the nausea.
And next thing I know, I'm in the CT scan and the gentleman had been playing actually
some Christian music.
I'd asked him to shut it off.
And what ended up happening is he turns it back on and then within a couple minutes I
stated my time of death.
Next thing I know, I'm back in my room and I'm being given an ID.
I'm asking the nurse to say Zofran and she said yes.
Next thing I know, I start losing consciousness and someone comes in and says, can I take
your blood pressure?
Turn over, show me your arm.
And next thing I know, I feel a flash in my brain and then my heart, a very indescribable
flutter.
And I cry out my heart.
The doctor was in the room and said, oh, it's just the morphing.
And next thing I know, I'm out and I'm up above my body and I watch him come in and he's
checking my pupils.
I'm unreactive.
So I ended up, I believe that the morphine suppressed my breathing and I died.
And while I was dead, I was up above my body watching at certain points.
And next thing I know, I'm in this dark, dark tunnel and there are jagged, jagged rocks
all along the wall.
And I hear sounds from down below, a lot of negativity.
And this thing I call the devil trying to grab my legs.
You can't do it.
You can't make it.
Next thing I know, there's this last jagged rock I'm looking at it going, I can't do this.
And finally said, excuse the expression, hell no, literally, and figuratively.
Next thing I know, I'm sitting in this big room and I believe I know where it is in Jerusalem,
where the doors have been closed for hundreds of years.
I can describe the inside and I'm sitting and talking with Jesus.
It's being shared with me my future, not the timing, but what I would experience throughout
life.
And so far, it's completely what he described.
Next thing I know, I'm at this gate with combs with this bright light and booming voice,
go now.
For me, many people that have an empty, don't remember any of it.
Some remember all of it and some remember parts of it.
And some people don't learn.
They end up learning through years and years and years where they remember what they're
experiencing.
So there are some, like I said, that don't remember anything.
And I remember the pure love, that love, I didn't believe in love.
I didn't experience it as a child in any way, shape or form from my parents.
And so I didn't believe in love, no way, no how.
And I felt that pure, pure love.
Now I've gotten glimpses of being on a path with entities, people with these bright lights
inside them.
So I know there's a lot more to my NDE.
So far, I don't know what the complete NDE, but I imagine someday I'll go through hypnosis
to go ahead and learn the rest.
But I just experienced a pure love.
And I always tell people when I describe that love, dogs here on earth in this realm, so
to speak, the perfect love, unconditional.
And I think dog is actually Hebrew.
In Hebrew you read from left to right, dog backwards spells God.
And that's the only thing that I could, the only way I can describe that perfect love.
Next thing I know, I remember getting an injection in my right wrist from the doctor.
And I hear him say, honey, you're no angel, you're on angel dust.
And I end up told by the nurse, sit up, get dressed, leave.
And this is about 1.45 a.m. February 4th, mind you.
I wasn't there for very long apparently.
And next thing I know, I know there's stores leading to the middle of the hospital.
And the outside doors that lead in are way, way the other direction.
Next thing I know, I think she grabbed my arm and said, no, this way.
And I remember all the nurses and doctors at that station looking at me was such disgust.
And so I'm light out those stores at around 2.03 a.m. in the morning.
Okay, all right, I need to slow you down.
We're covering a lot of territory here really fast.
It's so hard, bud.
Yeah, it definitely is.
Let's come back to the end of that three hours.
But first, I want to go through this kind of piece by piece.
You tell me if I've got it right here.
So first you leave your body and you're watching what doctors are doing with it, right?
Right.
Then you're going down a dark tunnel with the devil trying to grab your legs.
Right, saying I couldn't do it.
How did you know that that's who it was?
Was it just the feeling there?
Yeah, you can't make it.
You can't do it.
Stay down here.
And I just remember being recoiled by what I was hearing these screams.
I would equate when I've experienced only once that weird feeling like when I was in
that tunnel climbing up those rocks and I was hearing a bunch of people together nagging
about somebody else that they don't like.
I was hearing that negative rhetoric, just pure negative.
And you were able to get past that and then you ended up in a room that you said is locked
in Jerusalem.
Tell me about that.
What is that?
I still, my memory is pretty bad, but I heard a documentary.
There's a room with a walkway that they sealed shut that Jesus, they say would do his talking
to others and what have you.
And I can describe the lions and all the structures inside.
I didn't know about where this room was until I saw a documentary years later, like five
years later.
Right.
So you saw this in your NDE, but didn't know where it was or what it was.
Until I saw a place and they gave a description of what they thought was inside.
But I knew what was, I know every detail to that room.
And you said Jesus was there, right?
Yes.
Tell me about that.
I just remember him talking to me, telling me what would happen to me, the homelessness,
the loss of my son and how hard it would be to live this life.
But in reality, all this heavy hardcore stuff that I got through in the explain this makes
me experience empathy towards others who experience these things and be healthy, have healthy
boundaries.
And by, he was right, experiencing the homelessness, experiencing mental health issues, everything
I've experienced, I'm able to relate to others on a personal level.
So he explained all that.
And he did explain in the end, you know, that I would experience the heaven when it's
God's time, not mine.
And that's become very apparent.
Did you have a choice on whether you were coming back or were you just sent back?
No.
I was told to go by God Himself, the bright light.
I said, go.
I was not given a choice whatsoever.
I think when I was sitting with Jesus, I said, okay, I understand what the outcome's going
to be, but I wasn't given a choice.
No, not whatsoever.
What was it like coming back into your body?
I remember slamming back into it with a nurse walking in the room telling me to get dressed,
go.
It was pretty, you know, I'm giving something in my arm to get me to breathe.
And then within a couple of minutes, I'm sure I have somebody stomping in the room,
me telling me to get dressed and leave several times.
I'm just starting to breathe with this woman making demands on me.
Wow.
Yeah.
And come to find out on that blood test, I had a true, false, positive for meth and
PCP.
I was actually on major drugs from psychiatrists.
The two of those drugs have a tendency of throwing out a true, false, positive.
And I never, I mean, it's kind of like poppy seeds, that that can throw out a true, false,
positive.
I've never, ever, ever used drugs.
And come to find out was for methamphetamines and PCP.
I have no idea what any of that would be like to take.
I've always had medical knowledge and I kind of like my brain.
Even if you had been on that, I cannot imagine them just kicking you out of the hospital.
It happens every split second of the day across the U.S., especially at night.
I think that that was one heck of an assumption that I was an addict and I've never used
a dame on life.
And it's very, very sad, very, very sad when people get treated this way.
But it happens all the time.
Addicts need medical help too.
Absolutely.
And I'm definitely an advocate.
I've never done them before, but while I was homeless staying in shelters in Portland, Oregon,
I would sit with addicts.
I mean, they're not actively using in front of me.
And come to find out a gentleman, his, a lot of narcosis, dead, deadening of the skin and
his feet.
And I sat down with him with for a half hour.
I actually saw him within the last year here in Arizona having a meal.
I sat down, got real honest and raw with him.
And he's, he went and got clean.
And I see him six years later.
And so I know that I experienced what I did.
It happens all the time, even for people who have recovered from addictions and still on
their medical records.
It's just very, very sad what he goes and what assumptions.
And they don't, that's everybody has a story.
We all do.
And I definitely advocate.
And everyone's small shows up on my records and I'm a poly substance abuser.
I've never even used.
So I've experienced being treated in a very, very bad way because of what's written on
paper.
And I don't seek out pain killers at all.
I want to know what the problem is with me.
I don't want anything for pain.
But I mean, it's very sad where the world is today when it comes to assumptions.
And we all are human and we all need, we all have strengths and weaknesses.
And that's all I can say about that.
Let me ask you, going back again, and then we'll finish up on this section, but tell
me about the pure love as you called it.
What was that like?
For me, it's, I'm starting to lose what it felt like here and in what's going on in,
in the world and, and how I'm treated and what have you.
It's indescribable, just pure, pure, pure love.
And I can only say the dog beside me, my Jack Russell, provides that unconditionally.
Now some people, especially those that maybe aren't huge dog lovers, would have a little
bit of a hard time with you describing the love in heaven, which most people call God's
love with a dog's love.
Can you help those people through this little paradox?
I mean, love for people, I am a Christian, but for me, it's about spirituality.
It is, if you find that love in a tree or wherever you may find it, if you feel it, that's what's
important.
Meditation, if that brings out love to you, anything, it's pure.
It is pure and unconditional.
And that is what love is, true love.
And I didn't, nobody could describe to me what love felt like.
I didn't believe there was such a thing till I died.
And for me, a lot of people I've seen have said, I want to experience an end to E. I
don't think you do.
It comes with all kinds of, it's just not something that I think anybody should seek
out.
It's not the end result.
It's hard to, it's just difficult after experiencing the end E in so many ways.
So I don't recommend anyone trying to facilitate an end E. I really don't.
But that pure love, many people find it in music and all kinds of different sorts of things.
But for me, the closest thing that I could feel love is by a dog.
But it can come from all kinds of different sources.
You are absolutely right here.
Let's talk about now how your life changed after that.
Everybody's life, that's everyone that's had an end to either life changes in some
ways.
Yours got rough.
Tell us what happened.
Well, for me, they kept telling me that I had no, that I was a meth adder, what have
you, and I actually met, exits your bloodstream and stuff within 72 hours, but not your hair
follicle.
I believed that for months.
And I thought I came to the conclusion somebody was putting it in my food or something because
I knew I wasn't doing it.
I ended up, I think within a year ended up having to walk away from everything dear and
near to my heart in that tiny little town in Oregon.
I couldn't, I faced a defamation of character in a very, very large way.
A lot of assumptions I was walking around saying that I was on angel dust.
That doctor, I must have been in some type of state coming, starting to breathe and have
somebody say, honey, you're no angel, you're on angel dust.
And I'm wandering around thinking I'm on angel dust.
Very, very, and it was never corrected.
So I mean, I was literally looked and sounded crazy for a good year.
And I ended up having to walk away from everything here, everything that into homelessness.
And what was homelessness like?
Most of us haven't experienced it.
We've seen a little glimpses of it, but from someone who was there, what's it really like?
For me, what's it really like, depending on how I was stressed, I couldn't use a public
restroom in a restaurant or even a convenience store at all.
Now if I was stressed nice, I had access to everything.
So people were judging me by how I looked.
I was always clean, but carrying that bag of clothes or a backpack, changed the perception
and the assumptions.
I actually have a fingerprint card.
I have never had evictions, nothing.
But these, and it's very, very sad that by the way in which I look, I'm treated differently.
Even right now, I had something happen in my life that I was not at fault, so I don't
have a car right now.
I'm walking everywhere and I am treated so much differently.
Doesn't even, well, it does matter how I look.
I'm all dressed up today.
I get totally.
So that was the hardest part of homelessness, the assumptions.
And then in Oregon, you have to make three times the rent.
And then you have to come up with first and last.
And when somebody is on a certain, just a one income and your housing challenge, you
can't get a job, but you have to have a job to have a place.
Let's talk about affordable housing.
I've never even had an eviction, never left damage, none of that.
So I ended up staying in shelters.
And I always say I'm an assumption buster.
One day up in Portland, dress very, very nice.
I talked about my homelessness.
This woman says to me, you don't look like you're homeless.
You're well put together.
And I said to her, what does homelessness look like and sound like to you?
And she had no response.
So I think, you know, we need to give, we can't assume people's story in any way, shape
or form at all.
And not even half of those that are on the streets or addicts or alcoholics, by the
way, they can't get access to housing that they can afford.
And it's spread throughout the whole country.
I don't believe in expensive band-aids called shelters or what have it.
But there are zoning laws where people don't want homelessness in their neighbor, someone
who has been homeless.
And so that's just a totally different discussion.
But I'm all about behavioral health and giving people a chance.
And in Oregon and throughout the country now, they're having tiny house villages where
they're teaching people how to live in a community.
And the success rate at once they leave that program is almost 100% actually.
That's fantastic.
Was there a certain program or something that helped you get out of homelessness?
Well, actually, yes, here in Arizona.
But actually in the large county, you had to be an addict or an alcoholic.
Now no one's wandering around saying they have to be an addict or an alcoholic to get
into temporary housing.
I changed that.
I guess I'm the success story.
I think it's kind of success story.
They told me I was gifted.
I went and applied at that apartment and I was in the next week.
But there are so many homeless that will do that.
I don't think what I did was that special.
But I have an income where I was able to once they helped me out, I was able to get on my
own footing and succeed.
Not every homeless person is a criminal or what have you.
Like I said, I've got a fingerprint card and no evictions.
It's just a matter of having that extra help to get into places costly.
It really, really is.
So yes, I made some changes in this county in Portland and what have you.
People are wandering around saying I need to go and use and get them here and sample
to be able to be included in a program.
Actually after I died, I started realizing I had been living in my past trauma.
I was living in my past.
And I actually at the time, you're so later had been seen a very knowledgeable counselor.
And I walk in the door talking about what was going on, what had, this is why are you
here Robin.
And I'm thinking, hmm, he's going to go home.
Well finally after a while, I realized what he said, what he was getting at.
You are talking about the past and you can't control it.
So I equate that to my past and all of that is in a room.
Walk out that room and never enter it again.
And I was able to realize my past and my strengths and weaknesses because of them.
I was able to overcome that ugliness and stopped living.
And that is the biggest blessing for my NDE.
It was a total reset on my mindset.
What I was telling myself in my head was not the truth.
They say nine times out of 10.
A thought is actually a lie.
And in my case, I had to reprogram myself talk, what I was telling myself every day.
And I was able to recover and no longer be on all those starting drugs.
I think drugs, anisecotics and what have you are effective for many, but I don't find
it being a long term thing.
I'm hopeful that it isn't for so many, but I was able to realize that that was my past.
That makes sense.
And you mentioned help for people with addictions.
Did you observe a lot of mental health, other mental health issues as well?
Absolutely.
People that had experienced pure trauma in their lives like I have.
I think that that is basically, I would say almost 100% of those that are homeless,
have a lot of trauma, a lot that they're unable to overcome.
It's mainly having to do with mental health.
That is the tie.
And when your housing challenge and living in the elements, anybody would have a hard
time with that.
There are many people that are income based right now facing homelessness where they don't
know how they're even going to put food on the table.
And it is a reality that is very, very hard.
We are all human beings.
I will sit with anyone and talk with anyone with those healthy boundaries.
And what happened to after my ND is human behavior, how someone stands, carry themselves,
how they speak.
I know what I'm feeling and looking at with behavior.
But addictions, I think so many people turn to addictions because they're struggling so
bad.
But like I said before, not even half of those homeless are addicts or alcoholics.
They're trauma-filled.
So what can the average person, you and I that live, whether we live in an urban area where
we see homelessness every day or like right now I'm in a more rural area where I don't
see it so much, what can we do to help?
I think that we need to stop assuming and start listening to people's stories.
And you would be in shock.
I knew women in Atlanta that had masters and bachelors that were traumatized.
Many women, especially women with children that are homeless, you have no idea what they
left behind.
More than likely abuse, addictions, beatings.
I really hold women up that are homeless with their children because they know their children
are their future.
I think to help the homeless, we need to hear their stories, first of all.
And I think there's a lot of expensive band-aids going on in our country where I think the
intent is great, but intentions are great and they only go so far.
I think we need to start educating people in a very large way and facilitate a lot of
kindness and love and mercy.
Now I think there are dangerous people out there.
Not all homeless are dangerous.
I know a lot of dangerous people that have nice homes.
So that assumption goes away right away.
But I think we need to start hearing people's stories.
And intentions are great.
We need a plan, a solid plan, not just let's react to something.
I think in Portland right now, we've got a mayor that's reaction after reaction with
expensive band-aids without a plan, long goal plan.
And I think that's all over the country.
I really, really do.
But let's talk about affordable housing.
But so many people, not my neighborhood.
So zoning laws are very, very hard.
But I really, people are people.
And I'm going to assume what you say they were or why they're out there.
You would be amazed on how many people's stories actually are relatable to people in homes.
And the assumptions need to go away.
They really, really do.
That sounds great.
Before we wrap up, let me just ask you, what did you learn from your NDE that can help
people who may be struggling in that area or those of us who have been very blessed in
that area, but we would like to be able to help others?
Realize the one thing is to listen to people and their stories and be healthy, you know,
boundary-wise.
And also realize that so many human beings, especially those out on the streets, are living
in their past traumas.
We need to start resetting with behavioral health and mental health to switch that tape
in each individual to realize the strengths that people, that individuals have because
we all have strengths and weaknesses.
We really, really do.
So we need to start retraining our minds on what's playing in our own heads, what we're
telling ourselves, because that is what changed for me.
I understood what I was telling myself all the time.
And actually, what you tell yourself, if it's ugly all over day after day after day, it's
hard to overcome that.
So I really, I think that we need to start talking about therapy and start relating to
one another because we all do have a human connection.
And lastly, I love the words pure love.
How again would you describe that?
But even more so, how would you encourage us or help us learn how to feel that and to
share it with others?
Well, I think that get rid of assumptions and assumptions.
And with pure love, it needs to accept one another.
I think there is a big difference between who a person is and what their behaviors are.
Just because you have a behavior that doesn't make you who you are.
There is a difference between behavior and who you are as a human being.
And I really encourage everyone to realize that, that we are human.
And if there's some behavior, that's not what makes us who we are.
And I think that would make the difference in the world.
And pure love, you accept, you don't criticize and then walk away.
You try to find a solution.
That is what pure love is, acceptance.
And trying to understand what that person is going through.
I always say it's an impact.
I know what to own and what not to.
Also, so many people right now are struggling with what others say and the only control
we ever have are our own actions and reactions.
And that is, we need to all realize that, not get so stuck in what everybody's doing
or saying back in the day.
I used to think that I had control.
I was crazy and no longer crazy.
So I encourage everyone to realize that that person has issues and you need to realize
just that.
And that's pure love too.
All I mean, what you're doing yourself and not what others are saying or what have you
about you or about others.
And that is pure love.
And it sounds like the other thing that you're saying is not only expressing pure love to
others, but to yourself.
Absolutely.
And I think there are tiny things we can do for ourselves.
So walk is great for the endorphins.
It really is.
And mental health issues, some freedom.
Many of us don't have any money.
We can't go buy things or what have you.
But there are tiny ways of taking loving kind care of ourselves.
Music, whatever your thing is, you need to take that time every day, biking, whatever
you can do for yourself or your own mental health.
It is not good to sit in a room and just worry and get upset on things in which you really
can't control.
So everybody needs to take that moment to be able to deflate and to feel their own selves.
It's so cathartic.
It really, really is.
Rob, and thanks a lot for being with us today.
You are very welcome, Ira.
Thanks again for listening and a quick reminder to follow this podcast and take a few seconds
to write a review.
It helps others to easily find us.
Until next time, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the
next.