1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,900 Hello and welcome back to the What in the World is Dyscalculia podcast presented by 2 00:00:06,900 --> 00:00:08,700 Educalc Learning. 3 00:00:08,700 --> 00:00:12,920 I am your host for the podcast, Dr. Honora Wall. 4 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:17,360 And I feel like I need a tagline for this podcast. 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:23,120 I feel like I should say, I'm Dr. Wall and you should stop drilling basic facts because 6 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:29,440 I really need to get this message across to my fellow educators. 7 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:35,240 Stop drilling the basic facts for students who have dyscalculia. 8 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,080 Let them put down the flashcards. 9 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,680 Let them log off of IXL. 10 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:47,880 For the love of Pete, stop giving time tests of basic facts. 11 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:54,200 Dyscalculia is a specific learning disorder where the parietal lobe of the brain loses 12 00:00:54,200 --> 00:01:00,600 math information over time, specifically basic math facts. 13 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,800 Period, hard stop, that's the definition. 14 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:12,960 That is the scientific wording that has been proven by research studies numerous times 15 00:01:12,960 --> 00:01:14,720 over the years. 16 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:20,320 We have got to let go of the idea that students have to memorize their times tables in order 17 00:01:20,320 --> 00:01:21,560 to do math. 18 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:27,360 But students have to be able to add and subtract fluently in their head using mental strategies 19 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,280 by a certain age or certain grade. 20 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:34,400 That's not how dyscalculia works. 21 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,040 I'm Dr. Wall and you should stop drilling basic facts. 22 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:39,200 That's the mantra. 23 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:46,120 That's what we want to repeat over and over and over again until my fellow teachers really 24 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:47,600 hear me on this one. 25 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:53,360 So I want to talk a little bit about why this is true, that you should stop drilling basic 26 00:01:53,360 --> 00:02:01,240 facts and what you can do about it, both to help your students and to keep your job. 27 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:07,000 Let's face it, as educators, we don't get to fully decide everything that happens in 28 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:16,280 our classroom and everything that we're supposed to do in our roles. 29 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:22,240 We are beholden to certain things called state math standards. 30 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:27,160 At the time of this recording, Florida just rewrote theirs and had some new math standards 31 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,040 coming out in 2022 for this school year. 32 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,720 But other states revise theirs quite frequently as well. 33 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:41,880 I can tell you that I've seen the state standards for math for every state in the United States. 34 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:48,080 Really they're all based off of Common Core, so all of that brouhaha over Common Core and 35 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:53,840 whether it was working, whether it was appropriate, whether a state followed it, they all used 36 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,760 it as a framework. 37 00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:03,040 Very few states step away in a few of their standards, but almost all the standards, the 38 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,920 majority come from that Common Core framework. 39 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:13,080 Probably misunderstood, Common Core really gives some broad definitions and generic ideas 40 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:18,720 that states can use to meet some mathematical concepts. 41 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:27,400 And its implementation was done incorrectly in a number of different ways. 42 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:33,280 Most clearly in the math materials that were designed, textbooks, workbooks, computer-based 43 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,080 programs that called themselves aligned with Common Core. 44 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,640 But that's a soapbox for another episode. 45 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:47,000 Let's stick with the standards as they relate to memorizing basic facts. 46 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:57,680 A lot of states have a standard somewhere in the elementary list that requires fluency, 47 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:05,760 requires memorization, or requires mental strategies. 48 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:10,080 Now fluency is a perfectly fine mathematical standard. 49 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:15,240 We can develop fluency even in our students who have specific learning disorders because 50 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:22,320 fluency means that you are fluid, that you have good pacing, that you are not being held 51 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:29,720 up by one or two facts that you can move through a set of questions based on basic math facts. 52 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:36,280 And this is entirely possible with the right support. 53 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:42,760 For a student with dyscalculia, that support is going to come from a times tables list, 54 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:48,080 preferably if they are doing their multiplication and division facts. 55 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:55,120 A 1-100's chart, preferably if they are doing adding and subtracting basic facts. 56 00:04:55,120 --> 00:05:01,800 It's not going to come from the multiplication chart where you look inside the rectangle 57 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:07,480 to find the answer to a multiplication problem because those can be very confusing for students 58 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:08,640 with dyscalculia. 59 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,560 A list is much more approachable. 60 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:20,760 And in the early elementary grades up to third grade, having a times tables list and a 1-100's 61 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,840 chart will help students have fluency. 62 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:31,240 They are doing the same work as students who don't have dyscalculia, except our students 63 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:32,880 are working harder. 64 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:38,720 Students who don't have a specific learning disorder have an internal, almost like a math 65 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:46,120 butler, a math concierge who's running around inside the parietal lobe, finding answers to 66 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,240 those basic fact questions. 67 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:55,280 Our students who have dyscalculia don't have that math concierge in their head. 68 00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:59,400 They have to go find the information on their own. 69 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,040 And that's what the outside external support is for. 70 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:09,480 They can find fluency using those support systems. 71 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:15,280 A standard that requires memorization or requires mental strategies is a very poorly 72 00:06:15,280 --> 00:06:18,160 worded standard. 73 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:22,480 That is above my pay grade and above the pay grade of most people listening. 74 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:30,640 But if you are an educator in a position to volunteer or serve on the state panel reviewing 75 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:35,760 math standards, I encourage you to get involved in that field and let your voice be heard 76 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:39,720 and put in some information, some new research. 77 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,960 Bring it to the people who are writing standards. 78 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:53,640 Because standards that require memorization or require the use of mental strategies don't 79 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,600 take into consideration neuroatpical development. 80 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:04,480 For students with dyscalculia, dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyspraxia, students with attention deficit 81 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:11,560 or executive function disorders or processing speed issues, all of these neuroatpical aspects 82 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:20,840 of human development go against the idea of fluency through memorization only or through 83 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:22,960 mental strategies. 84 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:28,800 So sometimes we're stuck with those standards until we all get involved in work to change 85 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:35,040 them to be more aligned with the medical community research on neuroatpical development. 86 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,760 We already know what's going on for people who have these differences. 87 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,840 We just don't acknowledge them or address them properly. 88 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:49,600 So long term, let's change that conversation. 89 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:53,280 In the short term, what do we do in the classroom? 90 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:58,320 Well in a public school, if you are tied to your state standards and meeting those needs, 91 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,120 I'm going to tell you right now your students with dyscalculia are not going to meet the 92 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:04,000 standard of memorization. 93 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:09,720 And they're not going to meet the standard of mental math strategies. 94 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,160 You can let those two go. 95 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:16,080 Luckily, you probably have somewhere in the vicinity of who even knows how many other 96 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:22,440 standards they are going to have to meet, which they'll be able to do just fine. 97 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,480 If you would like them to meet the standards for fluency, then make sure they have the 98 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,480 tools to do so. 99 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:36,160 Replace that internal math concierge with an external support system. 100 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:41,160 And understand that not every student is going to meet every single standard in your school 101 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:42,160 year. 102 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:43,800 They can still pass the year. 103 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:51,520 And that's really where we find the impact of not giving students with dyscalculia the 104 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,720 right support. 105 00:08:54,720 --> 00:09:01,400 If we refuse to let them use support tools that they need, in first, second, third grade, 106 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:08,920 they're going to have trouble mastering any sort of concepts that involve adding, subtracting, 107 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,240 measuring, multiplying, dividing. 108 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:16,240 We already have talked about the dyscalculia trifecta, time, money, place value, and the 109 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,320 problems that that creates. 110 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:26,720 Looking ahead in fourth, fifth, and sixth grade, now for students with dyscalculia, they 111 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:32,400 are still being forced to practice those early basic facts. 112 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,280 They're still being held back in their work because they're expected to work without an 113 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:41,040 external support tool like a list of the times tables. 114 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:50,120 And now they have an extra barrier while they're trying to learn about perimeter, area, volume, 115 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:58,400 about more advanced measurement, about the intricacies of adding fractions. 116 00:09:58,400 --> 00:09:59,960 What is a fraction? 117 00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:01,440 What in the world is a decimal? 118 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:03,680 How do you add and subtract those? 119 00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:06,560 Now how do you multiply and divide these things? 120 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:13,600 Using those steps and procedures is its whole-owned set of instructional strategies and important 121 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:15,160 mathematical concepts. 122 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:21,200 What are the rules for working with numbers in different situations? 123 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:27,120 At that stage, it is vitally important that we're letting students use that multiplication 124 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:34,440 list or even better, let them use a calculator because that verifies the numeracy piece so 125 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,320 they can focus on the conceptual piece. 126 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:42,520 And this is where a lot of times students run into trouble in later elementary classes. 127 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:48,920 They can't show you mastery over the concept because they're getting hung up on those basic 128 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:49,920 facts. 129 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:54,440 They're tripping over them like untied shoelaces. 130 00:10:54,440 --> 00:11:01,120 And we know that the reason for that is the parietal lobe losing math information over 131 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:02,400 time. 132 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:09,400 So our instructional strategies are not going to change the way the parietal lobe works. 133 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:14,320 Using flashcards or a computer-based program to drill facts is not going to change the 134 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,160 way the parietal lobe works. 135 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,760 Continuing to give a test on the two's times tables, well into fourth and fifth grade is 136 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,800 not going to change the way the parietal lobe works. 137 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:30,640 I'm Dr. Wall and you should stop drilling basic facts. 138 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:36,600 You should use the scaffolding and external support that's going to remove that barrier. 139 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:43,400 And then you can truly know whether or not your students understand perimeter area volume, 140 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:53,960 how to add fractions, how to create equivalent fractions, how to multiply and divide decimals. 141 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:58,600 If we want them to do that work, we need to remove those earlier barriers. 142 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:02,840 And the way to do that is through external support, not through expecting their brains 143 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:09,520 to work in a way that we know for a fact their brains don't work that way. 144 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:15,600 Within this discussion, I always have teachers mention the fact that you can't use that 145 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,240 calculator on the state assessment. 146 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:24,240 You can't use a times tables list on the state assessment. 147 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:28,440 That's not going to be true, which is one of the reasons why those state assessments are 148 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,000 a great way to prove that accommodations work. 149 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,200 Because when students can do the work in class with the right support and then not perform 150 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:42,840 as well in a situation where they don't have the support, guess what we've proven? 151 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,320 We've proven they truly have a learning disability. 152 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:50,080 We've proven that the accommodations make a difference and allow them to show mastery 153 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:56,120 without having unnecessary barriers in the way. 154 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:02,520 And for a lot of parents, especially, the goal is for their child to feel comfortable 155 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,000 and happy in math class. 156 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:10,120 The goal is to pass third grade, not to pass the third grade state assessment. 157 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:15,480 The goal is to stay out of remedial math classes because they're mastering concepts. 158 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:20,560 The goal is not to get a high level score on a state assessment. 159 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:23,440 So as educators, we have to think about those goals. 160 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:27,480 We have to talk with our administrators about those goals and we have to let parents know, 161 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:32,000 listen, we can use these accommodations and interventions in the classroom. 162 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,320 They're not allowed on the state assessment, so you're going to see a discrepancy in scores. 163 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:42,600 But your child is going to pass math class if they work and use their support tools properly. 164 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,400 And your parents will be thrilled. 165 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,480 If you're in a private school setting or a home school setting, you don't have the same 166 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:58,200 restrictions and adherence because you're not stuck following every one of those standards 167 00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,200 in the same way. 168 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:05,720 You have a little more leeway and discretion and you're not stuck using those state mandated 169 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:06,720 assessments. 170 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,280 You have the choice of using them or you have the choice of using something else, something 171 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:13,120 that you create personally. 172 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,360 I'm a big advocate of the Iowa Test of Basic Skills. 173 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:24,600 It's a great standardized nationalized test that gives us really good information and 174 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:30,240 is more accessible for students with learning disabilities in my personal and professional 175 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:31,240 experience. 176 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,920 But you have a little more leeway. 177 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:42,160 You're still not going to be using the same accommodations on the Iowa Test of Basic Skills. 178 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:43,800 That's perfectly fine. 179 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,240 You're still going to use them when they count in the classroom, helping students master 180 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,680 content and topics. 181 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,640 Let go of mastering basic facts. 182 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,440 Let go of memorization. 183 00:14:56,440 --> 00:15:01,240 It's a parlor trick and it's not a parlor trick that students with dyscalculia are going 184 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,240 to succeed at. 185 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:10,920 Let go of the idea that the only good math is done mentally because it's not true. 186 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:15,800 I'll take a student who works with precision and accuracy writing everything out on their 187 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,800 paper over one who does all the work in their head and refuses to show their work. 188 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:25,520 And any teacher past sixth grade is going to want math students to show work in a much 189 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,520 more meaningful way. 190 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,400 But if they've had five or six years of being told not to write it down because they're 191 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,800 supposed to do it in their head and then explain how they got their answer without ever having 192 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:42,200 that modeled, then they're not going to be ready to show their work later on. 193 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:48,800 So there are lots of reasons why precision and accuracy and using external tools helps 194 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:52,040 students succeed in math. 195 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,960 But for students with dyscalculia, it's vital. 196 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,240 It's just the beginning place. 197 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,920 The definition of this learning disorder is that the parietal lobe loses math information 198 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,760 over time, specifically basic math facts. 199 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:15,440 So the first starting place is to allow, use, instruct, and reinforce the correct support 200 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,440 tools for students with dyscalculia. 201 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:27,240 One to one hundred start for adding and subtracting, times tables list for multiplying and dividing. 202 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:32,720 I'm Dr. Wall and you should stop drilling basic facts. 203 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:41,640 If you have any questions or comments, please reach out to me, Honora, H-O-N-O-R-A at educalclearning.com. 204 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,240 Or go to our website educalclearning.com. 205 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:45,480 Leave me a message there. 206 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,120 Check out our courses. 207 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:53,080 We do have a free course called All About Dyscalculia, which has some generic information that's 208 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:58,880 useful for all parents and educators and students who want to know more about themselves as 209 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:00,440 learners. 210 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:07,480 And we have some specific content available for educators as well. 211 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:11,880 I just got back from speaking at a wonderful conference in Mississippi and had a great 212 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,800 time and I'm looking forward to an upcoming conference in Wisconsin. 213 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:22,420 If you'd like me to present to your group, live and in person, or through customized 214 00:17:22,420 --> 00:17:25,120 online training, please reach out and let me know. 215 00:17:25,120 --> 00:17:29,880 And if you'd like to talk about anything specific in future podcast episodes, I'm happy to answer 216 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:35,960 your questions because I love talking about dyscalculia and I love helping other educators 217 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,040 understand this very fascinating learning disorder. 218 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:46,480 The first thing I want you to understand is that you should stop drilling basic facts. 219 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:52,080 Make just that little change and your whole math class experience will be better. 220 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:58,120 And your students with dyscalculia will start to succeed in ways you could not have imagined 221 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:02,680 the week prior when you were still drilling those basic facts. 222 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,960 Thank you for listening to What in the World is Dyscalculia. 223 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:24,640 I'm Dr. Honora Wall and I look forward to hearing from you soon.