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Hello and welcome to the What in the World is Dyscalculia podcast.

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I'm Honora Wall, your host, and today I want to talk about the experience of having dyscalculia

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and being an adult no longer a student and how that persists this learning disorder that

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frankly we don't fully understand yet.

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This has a really big impact on the life of adults.

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If you speak to people who have dyscalculia, a lot of times they don't have a diagnosis

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because no one tested them for this learning disorder when they were younger.

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They have suspicions and they might have gotten a diagnosis or be trying to get one.

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It's difficult because they're very expensive.

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It can cost a few thousand dollars to have a neuropsych evaluation done by a professional

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and once you're out of the K-12 system you're paying that out of pocket.

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So it can be prohibitive for people to find out exactly what's going on, why they constantly

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have struggled with numbers their whole life.

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So people with dyscalculia have a lot of trouble with directions.

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So getting somewhere north, south, east, west, but also left, right.

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Also what's the order of the turns you take to get somewhere and also how much time does

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it take to get from point A to point B. If you know that your appointment is at 11, what

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time do you leave your house, what time do you start taking your shower and getting ready.

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That elapsed time is very difficult for adults with dyscalculia.

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So you can see how this really impacts every part of their day.

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Another issue for adults with this math learning disability is dealing with money and change.

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So we see that as early as second and third grade and it continues.

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So as an adult a lot of people with dyscalculia say they don't feel comfortable handling money,

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understanding money.

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They don't feel comfortable making change or using cash at the store and because of their

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experiences in K-12 education they're embarrassed.

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A lot of times they feel a lot of shame which they should not.

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If you are an adult listening and you have dyscalculia you should not feel badly at all

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and you should not feel uncomfortable and you should not feel any embarrassment.

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If you are an employer or a spouse or a relative of an adult and you're making them feel badly

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about their problems with money and with time you're a jerk and you should behave better.

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I can't say it any more clearly than that because there's a really emotional impact for people

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who are suffering with this learning disability that people around them don't understand.

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Many years ago before I had ever heard of dyscalculia I had a woman come into my tutoring agency

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that I was running and she wanted to get some help with math and become more comfortable

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with math.

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She had never been successful in math.

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Her husband and her children knew this was kind of the family joke.

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Don't let mom have the change.

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Don't send her to the store unless she's using the card.

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She didn't want to talk about numbers.

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She was always late or early and she just wanted to feel more confident.

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Sadly, I had not been exposed to this math learning disability and I did not have the

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knowledge to really help her.

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I tried and I talked with her the way I would have talked to other adults who had come into

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my agency or any K-12 student, tried to figure out where they're stuck, where did we want

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to start, what were their goals for the session, and just have a conversation about math and

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numbers in general.

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And at the time I could tell that she was very distressed and very upset and nervous.

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She was uncomfortable talking about how much trouble she had with numbers and with math.

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But because I did not have the right information, I was not able to have the right conversation

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with her.

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And honestly, that's a big part of why I do the work that I do.

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If I had the right kind of training, I could have made a much bigger difference for this

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woman because I would have known what to do.

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But because I did not have the training or knowledge, I approached this conversation

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in a way that would have worked for someone who did not have a learning disability and

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that was wrong.

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And I could tell when she left she was still very uncomfortable and she did not come back.

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This story is not a success story, sadly, and I wish that I could have helped her more.

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You know, I like talking to people about dyscalculia because the more you know as a teacher, as

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a parent, as a spouse, as a family member, you can make a big difference in someone's

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life.

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And the listeners who have dyscalculia, I want you to know that the problem is that other

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people don't understand exactly what you're dealing with.

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But it's not a failing on your part.

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It's not a weakness on your part.

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And if you can find the person who has the training and knowledge, then you can reclaim

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ownership of yourself as a mathematical thinker and as a person who can do math.

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I know that that is possible because since I've learned about dyscalculia and how to

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truly help people, I'm happy to say that I have successfully worked with adults who have

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changed the way they think about and perform math.

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A lot of times this happens to adults in the workforce.

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And one of my success stories was from an adult who found me through an online support

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group for people with dyscalculia.

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And she reached out to see if we could do some one-on-one tutoring regarding her work.

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She worked in marketing and loved her job, loved her company.

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They wanted her to be more involved with sales projections, with determining where they should

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put their marketing dollar, an inventory system that they could tweak and build something

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online.

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And it was very overwhelming for her to think about doing this work.

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The overwhelming part came from her emotional experiences in school.

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People with dyscalculia go through the K-12 system knowing for sure they cannot do math.

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They've never been successful at math.

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People have tried a million different ways and it's never stock.

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And that's because the people who are trying are usually trying to put a square peg into

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a round hole.

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The problem is not with the peg.

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The problem is not with the hole.

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The fact is they're using the wrong equipment for the situation.

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And that's why the students continue to struggle.

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But as adults, people are convinced that this is something they cannot overcome.

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And that is not true.

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You absolutely can become better at math if you're working with someone who understands

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your learning challenges.

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So this particular woman and I worked together.

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We really focused very much on math as it related to her work.

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We talked a little bit about numbers in the beginning to help her feel comfortable.

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I let her direct the conversation because she was not trying to pass a task, not trying

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to pass a class.

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She just wanted to hold her own in conversations with coworkers and with her boss.

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She knew she had a diagnosis of dyscalculia and she did not want to disclose that in the

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workplace, which is completely understandable.

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It's hard enough to find a workplace that's accepting of differences that can be seen.

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So a learning disability, especially a math related learning disability that most people

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don't understand or have never heard of, this is very, feels very exposed to talk about

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that at work.

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And people worry that they will get fired or that they will not get promoted or that

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their coworkers will make fun of them.

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So it's very challenging for adults to navigate having this learning disability.

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I sincerely hope that changes rapidly because there's no excuse for it.

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Today the fact is that a lot of adults with dyscalculia are kept out of a lot of jobs

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because of this barrier.

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First of all, they're given work that is either too fast paced or they're expected

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to remember all the steps and procedures quickly without any support.

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Where if they had support, if they had a list of the steps, if they were given a little

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time to process the order of what needs to happen, then they would be one of your best

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workers.

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They would excel very quickly.

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That is actually what happened with this particular woman I was working with.

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The more we talked about math and I showed her some different ways she could support

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herself without exposing herself to her colleagues, the more she gained confidence.

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And once she was able to do a projection or use a worksheet with confidence and excel

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worksheet to make some projections and some recommendations, this really boosted her confidence

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and we were able to talk things out before they happened in the workplace.

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That way she didn't feel caught off guard by a question from the boss or from her coworkers.

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That's another big piece of overcoming dyscalculia as an adult.

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Feeling like you're prepared for questions and feeling like you have an answer ready

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and feeling like you're not going to be embarrassed by a question you can't answer at the moment.

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So there was a lot of emotional discussion as well, how she felt about math, what she

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thought was going to come up in a work meeting, and how to address that ahead of time.

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And if you are an adult with dyscalculia listening, a big part of what we talked about was taking

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a moment, pause, deep breath, and saying, you know, I want to make sure I have the most

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accurate information.

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So let me write down your question.

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I'm going to research that and I'll get back to you by the end of the week.

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And that way you've bought yourself a little bit of time and you don't have to feel put

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on the spot.

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And this is a perfectly acceptable answer in the workforce.

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Your boss wants you to have the best information.

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They want you to give them the right answer the first time.

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So showing them that you want to give the right answer is going to be well received.

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So if you are at work, give that a try.

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I completely understand why people do not want to disclose whether or not they have a learning

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disability.

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So I'm going to let that be something you decide for yourself.

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But if you do want to talk about that at the workforce, you should be able to.

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There are laws to back you up, but there are also laws to protect students in the K-12

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system and not all K-12 students get the diagnosis or the help they need as well.

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So we do have a ways to go in supporting people at all stages of life who have this math learning

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disability.

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This particular woman in marketing, we worked together for a few months, but not very long

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because the minute she saw that she was capable and the minute she understood that with the

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right support, she could do anything that her coworkers were doing and that she did

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have the right knowledge about her company, her product, and the market and putting numbers

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with that to make some projections was something she could absolutely master and change as

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she needed to because we designed that Excel spreadsheet together and we tried different

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changes so that she felt comfortable working with the program.

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Then she really did not need any more support from me, which is great.

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What she really needed was a little bit of training, a whole lot of confidence, and a

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program that worked well for her needs.

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And she was able to stay at her company and move into this new position with confidence,

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which was really great.

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I think that just knowing what she's capable of really changed her trajectory.

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So for the educators and parents and support teams listening, you can make a deeply impactful

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difference in someone's life, in their earning income, in their potential in the workforce,

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simply by understanding their needs.

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So I encourage you to take deep dives into learning how to support people who have dyscalculia.

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A big part of that comes from treating people with respect, listening to what they say their

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challenges are, meeting them in that place, and designing tools that can help them navigate

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their life with confidence.

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To be honest, it's not very difficult if you're a good listener and if you truly pay attention

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to what people are saying, you can do this.

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It's not a difficult skill to master and it makes a big difference.

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Another place I would like to talk about for adults with dyscalculia is that feeling of

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elapsed time, getting ready to go somewhere, or understanding how long it will take to

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get somewhere or to get something accomplished.

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This is very problematic for a lot of adults, even those without dyscalculia, but for ones

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with a math learning disorder, certainly it's very difficult.

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We also see it a lot in adults who have ADHD, executive function disorders.

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These are all things that are impacted by this passage of time and understanding time.

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Setting alarms can be a really big help for a lot of people, but understanding when to

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set those alarms.

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That's where having an outside help can make a big difference.

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Having someone help you figure out those alarms the first time, talking through how long something

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is going to take, and then setting that calendar so that it can be followed can make a big

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difference.

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Having the support, either from some sort of teacher or coach or a supportive family member,

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can be the person to help you get that initial calendar or schedule together.

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And of course, understand that those do need to be tweaked and changed over time.

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Very few of us, pretty much none of us, set a perfect calendar or a perfect schedule or

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a perfect system of alarms the very first time we try it.

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If we're doing that very well now as adults, it's because we messed it up.

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The first few times we tried it as children or teenagers or young adults, and over time

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we've gotten better at it.

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So find someone trustworthy who understands that you're looking for a little bit of support

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to get your system set properly.

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And that can really help make a difference with that elapsed time issue, which for adults

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makes a big difference in the workforce keeping and maintaining the job that they want to

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have, from being promoted at work, feeling confident in yourself as an employee, which

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in my opinion, it's a shame that so many people get stuck behind their disability because

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they have a great work ethic, they have the ability to get the job done, they're very

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smart, they bring a ton of strengths into the workforce.

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And because of issues in the parietal lobe that are completely beyond their control,

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they're getting a little stuck.

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And if they simply had the right support tools, this would not be a problem.

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It's really the same as having the right prescription glasses.

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And if we can give people the right tools and understand that having to wear glasses

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at work is really not a big deal.

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Having to have the right support at the cash register or having to have the right support

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before making projections, not a big deal.

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But a lot of adults today are being kept out of the jobs they should have because of their

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dyscalculia.

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In other podcasts, I'll talk more about the emotional impact of this disability as well

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because that for me is another very important piece as educators, parents, spouses, family

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members.

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If we can help people gain more confidence, understand their strengths, and help them

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live life from a place of understanding the abilities they have, that's meaningful.

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That's a reason to get out of bed and talk to people during the day.

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And for adults who do have dyscalculia, you have more strengths than you know.

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You have abilities you're probably not even tapping into yet.

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Don't feel held back by your math learning disability.

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It is something that you can learn how to work with finding people who know how to help

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you is a big, big part of that.

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If you're working with someone who is not helping you the way you need to be helped,

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don't give up.

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Keep searching.

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If there are any other questions or comments that you have as a listener about this topic,

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I would love to hear your thoughts and your experiences.

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If I can help answer a question, I would love to do that as well.

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You can reach me through my website, educalclearning.com, or send me an email, honoraateducalclearning.com.

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That's H-O-N-O-R-A.

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You can also find educalclearning on Facebook or LinkedIn.

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And all of those methods are a great way to let me know what you think and let me know

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if there are any questions I can answer in a future podcast.

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Thank you very much for listening and I hope you have a great rest of your day.