Hello and welcome to the What in the World is Dyscalculia podcast.
I'm Honora Wall, your host, and today I want to talk about the experience of having dyscalculia
and being an adult no longer a student and how that persists this learning disorder that
frankly we don't fully understand yet.
This has a really big impact on the life of adults.
If you speak to people who have dyscalculia, a lot of times they don't have a diagnosis
because no one tested them for this learning disorder when they were younger.
They have suspicions and they might have gotten a diagnosis or be trying to get one.
It's difficult because they're very expensive.
It can cost a few thousand dollars to have a neuropsych evaluation done by a professional
and once you're out of the K-12 system you're paying that out of pocket.
So it can be prohibitive for people to find out exactly what's going on, why they constantly
have struggled with numbers their whole life.
So people with dyscalculia have a lot of trouble with directions.
So getting somewhere north, south, east, west, but also left, right.
Also what's the order of the turns you take to get somewhere and also how much time does
it take to get from point A to point B. If you know that your appointment is at 11, what
time do you leave your house, what time do you start taking your shower and getting ready.
That elapsed time is very difficult for adults with dyscalculia.
So you can see how this really impacts every part of their day.
Another issue for adults with this math learning disability is dealing with money and change.
So we see that as early as second and third grade and it continues.
So as an adult a lot of people with dyscalculia say they don't feel comfortable handling money,
understanding money.
They don't feel comfortable making change or using cash at the store and because of their
experiences in K-12 education they're embarrassed.
A lot of times they feel a lot of shame which they should not.
If you are an adult listening and you have dyscalculia you should not feel badly at all
and you should not feel uncomfortable and you should not feel any embarrassment.
If you are an employer or a spouse or a relative of an adult and you're making them feel badly
about their problems with money and with time you're a jerk and you should behave better.
I can't say it any more clearly than that because there's a really emotional impact for people
who are suffering with this learning disability that people around them don't understand.
Many years ago before I had ever heard of dyscalculia I had a woman come into my tutoring agency
that I was running and she wanted to get some help with math and become more comfortable
with math.
She had never been successful in math.
Her husband and her children knew this was kind of the family joke.
Don't let mom have the change.
Don't send her to the store unless she's using the card.
She didn't want to talk about numbers.
She was always late or early and she just wanted to feel more confident.
Sadly, I had not been exposed to this math learning disability and I did not have the
knowledge to really help her.
I tried and I talked with her the way I would have talked to other adults who had come into
my agency or any K-12 student, tried to figure out where they're stuck, where did we want
to start, what were their goals for the session, and just have a conversation about math and
numbers in general.
And at the time I could tell that she was very distressed and very upset and nervous.
She was uncomfortable talking about how much trouble she had with numbers and with math.
But because I did not have the right information, I was not able to have the right conversation
with her.
And honestly, that's a big part of why I do the work that I do.
If I had the right kind of training, I could have made a much bigger difference for this
woman because I would have known what to do.
But because I did not have the training or knowledge, I approached this conversation
in a way that would have worked for someone who did not have a learning disability and
that was wrong.
And I could tell when she left she was still very uncomfortable and she did not come back.
This story is not a success story, sadly, and I wish that I could have helped her more.
You know, I like talking to people about dyscalculia because the more you know as a teacher, as
a parent, as a spouse, as a family member, you can make a big difference in someone's
life.
And the listeners who have dyscalculia, I want you to know that the problem is that other
people don't understand exactly what you're dealing with.
But it's not a failing on your part.
It's not a weakness on your part.
And if you can find the person who has the training and knowledge, then you can reclaim
ownership of yourself as a mathematical thinker and as a person who can do math.
I know that that is possible because since I've learned about dyscalculia and how to
truly help people, I'm happy to say that I have successfully worked with adults who have
changed the way they think about and perform math.
A lot of times this happens to adults in the workforce.
And one of my success stories was from an adult who found me through an online support
group for people with dyscalculia.
And she reached out to see if we could do some one-on-one tutoring regarding her work.
She worked in marketing and loved her job, loved her company.
They wanted her to be more involved with sales projections, with determining where they should
put their marketing dollar, an inventory system that they could tweak and build something
online.
And it was very overwhelming for her to think about doing this work.
The overwhelming part came from her emotional experiences in school.
People with dyscalculia go through the K-12 system knowing for sure they cannot do math.
They've never been successful at math.
People have tried a million different ways and it's never stock.
And that's because the people who are trying are usually trying to put a square peg into
a round hole.
The problem is not with the peg.
The problem is not with the hole.
The fact is they're using the wrong equipment for the situation.
And that's why the students continue to struggle.
But as adults, people are convinced that this is something they cannot overcome.
And that is not true.
You absolutely can become better at math if you're working with someone who understands
your learning challenges.
So this particular woman and I worked together.
We really focused very much on math as it related to her work.
We talked a little bit about numbers in the beginning to help her feel comfortable.
I let her direct the conversation because she was not trying to pass a task, not trying
to pass a class.
She just wanted to hold her own in conversations with coworkers and with her boss.
She knew she had a diagnosis of dyscalculia and she did not want to disclose that in the
workplace, which is completely understandable.
It's hard enough to find a workplace that's accepting of differences that can be seen.
So a learning disability, especially a math related learning disability that most people
don't understand or have never heard of, this is very, feels very exposed to talk about
that at work.
And people worry that they will get fired or that they will not get promoted or that
their coworkers will make fun of them.
So it's very challenging for adults to navigate having this learning disability.
I sincerely hope that changes rapidly because there's no excuse for it.
Today the fact is that a lot of adults with dyscalculia are kept out of a lot of jobs
because of this barrier.
First of all, they're given work that is either too fast paced or they're expected
to remember all the steps and procedures quickly without any support.
Where if they had support, if they had a list of the steps, if they were given a little
time to process the order of what needs to happen, then they would be one of your best
workers.
They would excel very quickly.
That is actually what happened with this particular woman I was working with.
The more we talked about math and I showed her some different ways she could support
herself without exposing herself to her colleagues, the more she gained confidence.
And once she was able to do a projection or use a worksheet with confidence and excel
worksheet to make some projections and some recommendations, this really boosted her confidence
and we were able to talk things out before they happened in the workplace.
That way she didn't feel caught off guard by a question from the boss or from her coworkers.
That's another big piece of overcoming dyscalculia as an adult.
Feeling like you're prepared for questions and feeling like you have an answer ready
and feeling like you're not going to be embarrassed by a question you can't answer at the moment.
So there was a lot of emotional discussion as well, how she felt about math, what she
thought was going to come up in a work meeting, and how to address that ahead of time.
And if you are an adult with dyscalculia listening, a big part of what we talked about was taking
a moment, pause, deep breath, and saying, you know, I want to make sure I have the most
accurate information.
So let me write down your question.
I'm going to research that and I'll get back to you by the end of the week.
And that way you've bought yourself a little bit of time and you don't have to feel put
on the spot.
And this is a perfectly acceptable answer in the workforce.
Your boss wants you to have the best information.
They want you to give them the right answer the first time.
So showing them that you want to give the right answer is going to be well received.
So if you are at work, give that a try.
I completely understand why people do not want to disclose whether or not they have a learning
disability.
So I'm going to let that be something you decide for yourself.
But if you do want to talk about that at the workforce, you should be able to.
There are laws to back you up, but there are also laws to protect students in the K-12
system and not all K-12 students get the diagnosis or the help they need as well.
So we do have a ways to go in supporting people at all stages of life who have this math learning
disability.
This particular woman in marketing, we worked together for a few months, but not very long
because the minute she saw that she was capable and the minute she understood that with the
right support, she could do anything that her coworkers were doing and that she did
have the right knowledge about her company, her product, and the market and putting numbers
with that to make some projections was something she could absolutely master and change as
she needed to because we designed that Excel spreadsheet together and we tried different
changes so that she felt comfortable working with the program.
Then she really did not need any more support from me, which is great.
What she really needed was a little bit of training, a whole lot of confidence, and a
program that worked well for her needs.
And she was able to stay at her company and move into this new position with confidence,
which was really great.
I think that just knowing what she's capable of really changed her trajectory.
So for the educators and parents and support teams listening, you can make a deeply impactful
difference in someone's life, in their earning income, in their potential in the workforce,
simply by understanding their needs.
So I encourage you to take deep dives into learning how to support people who have dyscalculia.
A big part of that comes from treating people with respect, listening to what they say their
challenges are, meeting them in that place, and designing tools that can help them navigate
their life with confidence.
To be honest, it's not very difficult if you're a good listener and if you truly pay attention
to what people are saying, you can do this.
It's not a difficult skill to master and it makes a big difference.
Another place I would like to talk about for adults with dyscalculia is that feeling of
elapsed time, getting ready to go somewhere, or understanding how long it will take to
get somewhere or to get something accomplished.
This is very problematic for a lot of adults, even those without dyscalculia, but for ones
with a math learning disorder, certainly it's very difficult.
We also see it a lot in adults who have ADHD, executive function disorders.
These are all things that are impacted by this passage of time and understanding time.
Setting alarms can be a really big help for a lot of people, but understanding when to
set those alarms.
That's where having an outside help can make a big difference.
Having someone help you figure out those alarms the first time, talking through how long something
is going to take, and then setting that calendar so that it can be followed can make a big
difference.
Having the support, either from some sort of teacher or coach or a supportive family member,
can be the person to help you get that initial calendar or schedule together.
And of course, understand that those do need to be tweaked and changed over time.
Very few of us, pretty much none of us, set a perfect calendar or a perfect schedule or
a perfect system of alarms the very first time we try it.
If we're doing that very well now as adults, it's because we messed it up.
The first few times we tried it as children or teenagers or young adults, and over time
we've gotten better at it.
So find someone trustworthy who understands that you're looking for a little bit of support
to get your system set properly.
And that can really help make a difference with that elapsed time issue, which for adults
makes a big difference in the workforce keeping and maintaining the job that they want to
have, from being promoted at work, feeling confident in yourself as an employee, which
in my opinion, it's a shame that so many people get stuck behind their disability because
they have a great work ethic, they have the ability to get the job done, they're very
smart, they bring a ton of strengths into the workforce.
And because of issues in the parietal lobe that are completely beyond their control,
they're getting a little stuck.
And if they simply had the right support tools, this would not be a problem.
It's really the same as having the right prescription glasses.
And if we can give people the right tools and understand that having to wear glasses
at work is really not a big deal.
Having to have the right support at the cash register or having to have the right support
before making projections, not a big deal.
But a lot of adults today are being kept out of the jobs they should have because of their
dyscalculia.
In other podcasts, I'll talk more about the emotional impact of this disability as well
because that for me is another very important piece as educators, parents, spouses, family
members.
If we can help people gain more confidence, understand their strengths, and help them
live life from a place of understanding the abilities they have, that's meaningful.
That's a reason to get out of bed and talk to people during the day.
And for adults who do have dyscalculia, you have more strengths than you know.
You have abilities you're probably not even tapping into yet.
Don't feel held back by your math learning disability.
It is something that you can learn how to work with finding people who know how to help
you is a big, big part of that.
If you're working with someone who is not helping you the way you need to be helped,
don't give up.
Keep searching.
If there are any other questions or comments that you have as a listener about this topic,
I would love to hear your thoughts and your experiences.
If I can help answer a question, I would love to do that as well.
You can reach me through my website, educalclearning.com, or send me an email, honoraateducalclearning.com.
That's H-O-N-O-R-A.
You can also find educalclearning on Facebook or LinkedIn.
And all of those methods are a great way to let me know what you think and let me know
if there are any questions I can answer in a future podcast.
Thank you very much for listening and I hope you have a great rest of your day.