Hello and welcome to this episode of What in
the World is Dyscalculia, the podcast that's
all about the math learning disability. I'm your
host, Dr. Honora Wall, Executive Director of
the Dyscalculia Training and Research Institute,
and this podcast is sponsored by Educalc Learning.
You can visit either website www .vdtri .org
or eduCalcLearning .com and find more information
about dyscalculia. You can also listen to this
podcast and share it with your friends and colleagues.
And in this episode I wanted to talk about a
question I saw recently in a chat group for math
teachers. So some of the questions can be a little
high -end but this one I think is accessible
and I think this really helps me when I think
about why are so many people struggling to help
students with dyscalculia? So I'll tell you a
summary of the question and then we'll get to
what I think one of the issues is. The question
asks teachers to discuss which they prefer and
what kind of trends they observe when they either
teach a formula to students or let them discover
a formula. in the question the post says for
example area of a trapezoid if you let your students
discover the ways to evaluate the area of different
trapezoids and then let them generalize a formula
from that and the other case is telling the formula
and then letting them remember and apply it and
then further contemplation, what are thoughts,
what are experiences, and what kind of motivation
do we see? And are we developing an ability to
solve any generic math problem by using either
of these methods? And a couple of things I found
interesting when I was reading this. First, it
assumes that every single student could be given
examples or samples and somehow derive a formula
that would apply in any generic setting based
on this figure. I have yet to see that kind of
generalization happen for students who have dyscalculia.
I'm not saying it couldn't. I'm saying in close
to two decades it would surprise me very very
much. Mostly because people who are neurodivergent
don't make the same kind of leaps we are expecting
when we're leading them to a certain outcome.
So they might generalize all sorts of interesting
things about a trapezoid. Literally none of them
might have anything to do with deriving a generic
formula based on given examples. So we can either
teach students that skill, which takes a lot
of time, effort, and planning that most of our
pacing charts don't. incorporate, or we can leave
them struggling, which is what commonly happens
to many students with a math disability. In the
second case, giving the student the formula,
showing them how to work it, will that lead to
solving other generic math problems? I have to
say also, In a couple decades of doing this work,
I don't know of any student with dyscalculia
who would really care if it's going to lead to
some other generic problem -solving tip. They
want to know how to solve the problem in front
of them. Then they want to solve as many similar
problems as they can because students with dyscalculia
are exceptionally hard -working and they want
to know how to do this work. They want to be
let in the math class door so that they can succeed
with these topics. Another thing people with
dyscalculia like is to know what's going to be
on the homework. How do they do that so that
they can practice effectively at home? They want
to know exactly what's going to be on the test
Friday or the quiz Thursday or the midterm or
final so they can prepare for exactly that. That
is the goal they're trying to reach. Usually
because that's also tied to getting their diploma
and then later getting a college degree. So it's
a wonderful goal. I will say anecdotally a lot
of my students come to enjoy parts of math after
we get them that success. So it's not that they
are never going to enjoy math or want to apply
things in new situations. It's that within the
K -12 system Are we really giving them time to
do that? Are we actually rewarding their curiosity
and interest? Or are we verbally rewarding that
in class? Oh, what a great way to think about
that problem, and then still failing them when
we give them a test that was not aligned to our
lessons, our instruction, or our spaced practice.
That is where my pragmatic view comes into play.
If you've heard any of the other podcast episodes
or watch some of the reels we have out on social
media, you know that I have a very pragmatic
view because people are trying to reach goals
and I think that their goal should be set by
them. It's their life trajectory, it's their
educational path. We can help them explore more
goals and objectives once we've gotten some mastery
and rebuilt a little bit of confidence. So, let's
get back to that original question that I saw
in the chat. How do I feel about either method?
Well, I think for the vast majority of students
in a classroom, maybe not vast, I might even
say 40%. Students who have a pretty good math
foundation and are enjoying geometry and have
strong visual spatial skills and great working
memory, they might be able to rappel with an
example and a set of examples on their own and
see if they can figure out a formula that would
go with it. And that is great. If they also have
the skill to know when and how to apply that
in other settings, that's a really nice bonus.
I think if it were highly common for students
to do that on their own, we would probably have
better national math scores, especially among
adults, but that's a longitudinal conversation
for another day. I think that when we find students
in class are struggling with whatever method
we're doing, we need to try some other methods.
There is no one perfect way to teach math. There's
no one perfect way to teach anything frankly
Because learning depends on the learner on the
student It is not simply what we know and how
we deliver it It is how that message is received
how it's understood how it's coded Where it is
stored in long -term memory if at all and how
the retrieval process works? so for my money
If I have a student in class who's still struggling,
I'm not going to keep relying on telling them
that they need to figure it out because I've
given them this amazing method, whether it's
the case A or case B from the question in the
chat. I'm going to simply throw all the spaghetti
at the wall and see what sticks for that student.
And I'm going to let them drive the work because
they are the one who needs to show change in
their understanding. Really, that's the goal
of education. If we look at the beginning of
the school year versus the end of the school
year, what is the change in knowledge over time?
And that's only partially determined by me as
the educator. It's mostly determined by the student
as the learner. And we read some of Vygotsky's
amazing work. We know that this happens in a
system, a back and forth working with a more
knowledgeable other who can help us grapple with
our questions and help build deeper understanding.
However, we open the door to that understanding.
Whether it's fumbling around on our own trying
to find a formula that we can apply or if it's
starting with a direct and explicit formula so
that we know what to do and now we can explore
with confidence. So educators, Whichever method
your school or district or co -teacher is promoting
right now See if it works and for the students
who it does not work for Have some other tools
in your toolbox. Don't rely on any one method
Rely on finding methods that works. Oh, hey folks
that goes back to that growth mindset We all
like to talk so much about so let's apply that
in our classrooms and in our tutoring sessions.
For my money I usually work with students who
are in someone else's classroom and I need to
find a way to help them succeed where they are.
So I'm going to go direct and explicit and then
we're going to apply that to all of the homework,
classwork, practice worksheets, different practice
programs and in our test prep so the student
knows what to do and can then spend their time
effectively training how to do that skill in
a variety of circumstances. But that's just me.
And there's a million other methods out there
that you might have found more success or at
least equal success in. I'd love to hear about
what's working for you. You can email me, hanora
at the DTRI .org or you can message me on any
of the social media platforms or find me on LinkedIn.
And I'm off to a great conference right now.
I'm very excited. I'll be doing some recordings,
both of the podcast and of some social media
reels from South by Southwest EDU. And if you
will be there in March of 2026, I hope you come
find me. And if not, I will see you online. If
you have questions about dyscalculia, if you'd
like to train your team or yourself, feel free
to reach out. And thank you for listening to
What in the World is Dyscalculia.