WEBVTT 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:04.219 Hello, Happy New Year, and welcome to What in 00:00:04.219 --> 00:00:09.000 the World is Dyscalculia? The very erratically 00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:12.080 produced podcast about the math learning disability. 00:00:12.339 --> 00:00:17.559 But in 2026 we have a new team, we have some 00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:20.140 new people in place, and hopefully some new systems 00:00:20.140 --> 00:00:25.079 and processes that will help me be more consistent 00:00:25.079 --> 00:00:28.609 with getting these podcasts out to you. What 00:00:28.609 --> 00:00:32.929 in the world is Dyscalculia is produced by EduCalc 00:00:32.929 --> 00:00:37.250 Learning and hosted by me, Dr. Honora Wall, Executive 00:00:37.250 --> 00:00:40.549 Director of the Dyscalculia Training and Research 00:00:40.549 --> 00:00:44.689 Institute. We added some staff this year at the 00:00:44.689 --> 00:00:49.659 DTRI. And I like to say we are for the neurodivergent 00:00:49.659 --> 00:00:53.659 by the neurodivergent. Every one of us either 00:00:53.659 --> 00:00:58.619 has a diagnosis or, in my case, some very clear 00:00:58.619 --> 00:01:02.399 signs and symptoms. Although I'm too old to have 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:04.659 gotten testing when I was younger, we really 00:01:04.659 --> 00:01:07.379 didn't talk about these things in school back 00:01:07.379 --> 00:01:11.819 in the day. That's one of the reasons why leaning 00:01:11.819 --> 00:01:14.730 into the research is really important in this 00:01:14.730 --> 00:01:19.549 work, understanding neurodivergence and how it 00:01:19.549 --> 00:01:23.790 impacts the life experience of a person with 00:01:23.790 --> 00:01:27.609 dyscalculia, dyslexia, dysgraphia, dyspraxia, 00:01:27.969 --> 00:01:31.390 ADHD, autism, so many things that fall under 00:01:31.390 --> 00:01:35.549 this neurodivergence umbrella. Understanding 00:01:35.549 --> 00:01:40.819 these unique traits. is a new and complex field. 00:01:40.900 --> 00:01:43.599 Very interesting. The neuroscience is fascinating 00:01:43.599 --> 00:01:48.299 and that is one of our goals here at what in 00:01:48.299 --> 00:01:50.799 the world is dyscalculia. To bring you some of 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:54.900 that research and to direct you where you can 00:01:54.900 --> 00:01:58.379 go learn more on your own. Always encourage that. 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:01.659 And if you don't have time or you're not a fan 00:02:01.659 --> 00:02:04.099 of reading dense research articles, we can at 00:02:04.099 --> 00:02:06.719 least summarize and get you some key points. 00:02:07.099 --> 00:02:11.199 But I I'm a big fan of geometry, love teaching 00:02:11.199 --> 00:02:14.919 geometry so much. And of course, our big thing 00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:17.419 in geometry is prove it. So you should never 00:02:17.419 --> 00:02:19.379 take my word for anything. You should go back 00:02:19.379 --> 00:02:22.199 and read original source material yourself. And 00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:25.900 if you want to read the original source material 00:02:25.900 --> 00:02:29.379 for today's podcast, you're going to look up 00:02:29.379 --> 00:02:32.060 a learning math article. Just type in learning 00:02:32.060 --> 00:02:36.199 math by Das and Janzen. It should pop right up. 00:02:36.860 --> 00:02:41.020 J .P. Das and Chris Janzen out of the University 00:02:41.020 --> 00:02:44.080 of Alberta. And this article was published in 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:49.960 2004. I really like this article because it breaks 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:55.860 down domain general versus domain specific in 00:02:55.860 --> 00:02:59.240 a way that's really easy to understand. So that's 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:01.659 what we're going to talk about today. And then 00:03:01.659 --> 00:03:04.000 we're going to talk about how that applies to 00:03:04.000 --> 00:03:09.400 the four main things that the researchers say 00:03:09.400 --> 00:03:13.180 learning math requires, the components of learning 00:03:13.180 --> 00:03:18.060 math. So only four things that we need to learn 00:03:18.060 --> 00:03:20.900 math and only two domains that we're going to 00:03:20.900 --> 00:03:24.479 talk about. Very simple and accessible information 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:29.819 but really crucial to understanding where and 00:03:29.819 --> 00:03:32.740 when and why a student struggles with math and 00:03:32.740 --> 00:03:36.229 how we can help them. So let's start with the 00:03:36.229 --> 00:03:39.770 domains. There are two things that we talk about 00:03:39.770 --> 00:03:44.669 in education, domain general and domain specific. 00:03:45.889 --> 00:03:49.150 And it comes up a lot in neuroscience too, not 00:03:49.150 --> 00:03:52.729 just education, but there's a lot of overlap 00:03:52.729 --> 00:03:55.349 between those two fields. So what do they mean? 00:03:56.030 --> 00:04:01.550 Domain general refers to processes that apply 00:04:01.550 --> 00:04:04.939 to lots of different things. So short -term memory, 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:09.099 that is domain general. We need short -term memory 00:04:09.099 --> 00:04:11.099 for pretty much everything that we do, and that 00:04:11.099 --> 00:04:15.340 governs our moment -to -moment experience throughout 00:04:15.340 --> 00:04:18.920 the day. And that information may or may not 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:23.779 get transferred into long -term memory. Another 00:04:23.779 --> 00:04:27.860 domain general idea is successive processing. 00:04:28.170 --> 00:04:32.149 And we really see that a lot in pattern recognition. 00:04:32.990 --> 00:04:36.550 So if you're looking at plus plus minus, plus 00:04:36.550 --> 00:04:41.310 plus minus, plus plus minus, that is successive. 00:04:42.110 --> 00:04:45.629 There's a process, it's repeating, we can predict 00:04:45.629 --> 00:04:48.930 it, and it's one right after the other. And it 00:04:48.930 --> 00:04:51.730 happens in all sorts of different patterns, not 00:04:51.730 --> 00:04:55.819 just the ones that we study in math. So successive 00:04:55.819 --> 00:04:59.040 processing and that pattern recognition happens 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:02.199 to all people all the time in all sorts of ways. 00:05:03.319 --> 00:05:05.699 So those are general because they apply to more 00:05:05.699 --> 00:05:09.279 than just math, but they're a very big part of 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:13.779 mastering math. So when we're looking at domain 00:05:13.779 --> 00:05:16.980 general issues, we find that chunking helps, 00:05:17.199 --> 00:05:19.379 breaking things down into smaller bits. That 00:05:19.379 --> 00:05:21.920 way we're not overwhelming short -term memory. 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:25.439 which can also overwhelm cognitive load. We'll 00:05:25.439 --> 00:05:28.279 talk about cognitive load theory in future podcasts. 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:31.560 And we know that chunking can be a really great 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:34.420 intervention and accommodation for dyscalculia. 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:41.939 And then also transferring domain general ideas 00:05:41.939 --> 00:05:46.079 onto a new problem, something that's similar 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:48.699 but slightly unexpected. So for example, we talked 00:05:48.699 --> 00:05:53.000 about those. patterns recognizing a pattern like 00:05:53.000 --> 00:05:56.000 plus plus minus plus plus minus and now looking 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:59.759 at a pattern like let me see if I can remember 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:02.160 all of the Fibonacci sequence off the top of 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:11.319 my head one one two three five 8, 11, recognizing 00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:13.920 that there's a pattern in there and taking the 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:16.579 idea of pattern recognition and applying it to 00:06:16.579 --> 00:06:18.519 this new set of numbers and figuring out what 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:24.060 the pattern might be. That transfer is very difficult 00:06:24.060 --> 00:06:28.459 for people with a math learning disability. So 00:06:28.459 --> 00:06:32.800 we can see in the classroom that there's a difficulty 00:06:33.100 --> 00:06:35.779 transferring knowledge to a problem that looks 00:06:35.779 --> 00:06:38.560 at all different. If you've changed around the 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:41.839 word problem, if you've changed the order of 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:45.139 information, for example we've been finding perimeter 00:06:45.139 --> 00:06:48.339 because we have all the sides but now all of 00:06:48.339 --> 00:06:50.560 a sudden we have perimeter, we're finding a missing 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:54.560 side, even that shifts the problem enough that 00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:57.339 transferring that domain general knowledge is 00:06:57.339 --> 00:07:01.439 very difficult. So as teachers we want to help 00:07:01.470 --> 00:07:05.069 build those bridges, we don't expect the transfer 00:07:05.069 --> 00:07:09.870 to occur automatically. So that's domain general. 00:07:10.329 --> 00:07:15.029 Let's take a look at domain specific, which is 00:07:15.029 --> 00:07:18.670 going to be things that apply absolutely, definitely 00:07:18.670 --> 00:07:23.829 to math. So counting, very domain specific. Counting 00:07:23.829 --> 00:07:25.750 is something we do in math. It's not something 00:07:25.750 --> 00:07:29.550 we do in necessarily history or English unless 00:07:29.550 --> 00:07:34.769 we're talking about mathematical piece. Estimating 00:07:34.769 --> 00:07:38.410 is domain specific. Estimating is something we 00:07:38.410 --> 00:07:43.129 do with numbers and with quantity and with time. 00:07:44.029 --> 00:07:50.290 So estimating is a specific skill. And planning, 00:07:51.569 --> 00:07:55.449 problem -solving planning, is domain specific. 00:07:55.829 --> 00:07:59.230 And it's a big part of approaching a math problem 00:07:59.500 --> 00:08:04.019 deciding how you're going to solve it. The issue 00:08:04.019 --> 00:08:06.339 for people who have the math learning disability 00:08:06.339 --> 00:08:10.079 is that this kind of planning requires flexible 00:08:10.079 --> 00:08:14.500 thinking and flexible strategies before we can 00:08:14.500 --> 00:08:17.800 really be efficient at doing this kind of planning. 00:08:20.750 --> 00:08:24.029 If you've worked with people who are neurodivergent, 00:08:24.670 --> 00:08:27.449 or who have dyscalculia specifically, or even 00:08:27.449 --> 00:08:29.790 as they're struggling, maybe they have low numeracy, 00:08:29.790 --> 00:08:32.529 but this is a skill set they can improve, you 00:08:32.529 --> 00:08:35.450 probably see that there are some issues with 00:08:35.450 --> 00:08:39.549 flexible thinking. That can happen a lot if you 00:08:39.549 --> 00:08:42.649 have a touch of either autism spectrum or sometimes 00:08:42.649 --> 00:08:46.149 ADHD, but sometimes just in dyscalculia, very 00:08:46.149 --> 00:08:50.799 rigid thinking, very linear. thinking. I also 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:53.879 find a lot of times students with dyscalculia 00:08:53.879 --> 00:08:57.879 can be overwhelmed with the different options 00:08:57.879 --> 00:09:01.179 and strategies and ways to solve a problem, and 00:09:01.179 --> 00:09:04.200 especially when they're learning skills in the 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:06.440 classroom, they wish we would just pick something 00:09:06.440 --> 00:09:10.000 and stick with it. And of course, we want them 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:12.179 to learn all of the different ways, find the 00:09:12.179 --> 00:09:15.039 one that works best for them, play around, land 00:09:15.039 --> 00:09:17.740 on something that's effective for you. and now 00:09:17.740 --> 00:09:21.340 you have different options. But we have to remember 00:09:21.340 --> 00:09:24.960 that for a student with rigid thinking or linear 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:28.179 thinking, or who's struggling, those choices 00:09:28.179 --> 00:09:30.559 can feel overwhelming. It's very much like when 00:09:30.559 --> 00:09:35.500 I walk into any kind of hardware store, whether 00:09:35.500 --> 00:09:38.000 it's local or a big box store, there's just so 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:40.539 many things I can't even figure out which thing 00:09:40.539 --> 00:09:43.539 is the wrench. Which thing, I can pretty much 00:09:43.539 --> 00:09:46.669 nail down a screwdriver, but it's going to take 00:09:46.669 --> 00:09:48.809 me a while and is it the right kind of screwdriver 00:09:48.809 --> 00:09:51.370 for the project I have at home? I don't know. 00:09:51.549 --> 00:09:54.950 It's too much, too many choices. So those are 00:09:54.950 --> 00:10:01.490 some domain specific issues. People with dyscalculia 00:10:01.490 --> 00:10:05.590 have problems in both areas, so we want to be 00:10:05.590 --> 00:10:09.450 aware of both and support them differently. For 00:10:09.450 --> 00:10:13.340 a domain general issue, using things like chunking, 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:17.100 reducing cognitive load, and helping build transfer. 00:10:17.639 --> 00:10:20.399 That's going to support a domain general issue. 00:10:22.100 --> 00:10:26.259 For domain -specific issues, like counting, estimating, 00:10:26.460 --> 00:10:28.820 planning, that's where we're going to use number 00:10:28.820 --> 00:10:32.179 lines, 1 to 100 charts, multiplication lists, 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:38.100 worked examples, or notes that really stay. Step 00:10:38.100 --> 00:10:42.899 one. distribute the two to everything in the 00:10:42.899 --> 00:10:48.679 parentheses use multiplication step to combine 00:10:48.679 --> 00:10:51.840 like terms and you might need more explanation 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:56.019 about that step three like this we really want 00:10:56.019 --> 00:10:59.460 to help with that planning and when possible 00:10:59.460 --> 00:11:04.840 you want to teach and then assess one strategy 00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:07.940 at a time then you know for sure which strategies 00:11:07.940 --> 00:11:10.360 have been mastered and which have not. When we 00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:13.440 try to teach all of the strategies and then test 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.960 all of the strategies at once, which commonly 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:19.559 comes up when we're teaching systems of equations, 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:22.980 it's just too many things to remember, too many 00:11:22.980 --> 00:11:24.919 options and it gets overwhelming. And then we 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:28.159 really don't know which strategy the student 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:32.019 understands and which part of the problem they 00:11:32.019 --> 00:11:36.889 understand. And that's where we can support domain 00:11:36.889 --> 00:11:39.990 specific issues. And if you want to know more 00:11:39.990 --> 00:11:45.049 about either of those, Google domain general 00:11:45.049 --> 00:11:48.350 versus domain specific in math, and a lot of 00:11:48.350 --> 00:11:52.289 articles will come up. So the next really important 00:11:52.289 --> 00:11:54.740 piece from this article. And then there might 00:11:54.740 --> 00:11:57.320 be another podcast out of this article. It was 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:00.100 very rich, lots of information. But they talked 00:12:00.100 --> 00:12:03.139 about the four things that learning math requires. 00:12:03.419 --> 00:12:06.299 So we're going to touch on them briefly today 00:12:06.299 --> 00:12:09.259 and then we might dig deeper in future podcasts. 00:12:09.340 --> 00:12:12.899 But here are the four things all humans need 00:12:12.899 --> 00:12:18.840 in order to learn math. First is magnitude. Second 00:12:18.840 --> 00:12:24.899 is value. Third is procedures. And the fourth 00:12:24.899 --> 00:12:28.779 thing we need is conceptualizing. So let's break 00:12:28.779 --> 00:12:34.519 those down. Magnitude is an innate skill. Everyone 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:37.799 has it. We can measure it in infants. And magnitude 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:41.980 refers to size, but also relationships between 00:12:41.980 --> 00:12:46.759 size. So magnitude is thinking of one thing being 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:50.259 bigger or smaller than another, which is the 00:12:50.299 --> 00:12:54.059 biggest toy, which is the smallest cookie, things 00:12:54.059 --> 00:12:56.940 like this. However, you can't really have big 00:12:56.940 --> 00:12:59.740 without having small. You can't have larger without 00:12:59.740 --> 00:13:03.919 having tinier. So they do go together. Magnitude 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:07.019 is something that we can automatically do from 00:13:07.019 --> 00:13:09.720 infancy. And we can see that in infants where 00:13:09.720 --> 00:13:11.980 they'll sort things by size and they're kind 00:13:11.980 --> 00:13:15.360 of putting things together. If you give one child 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:19.759 a small bag of treats and another child a very 00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:22.320 large bag of treats, you're going to have an 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.200 issue because those children are going to know 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.019 right away who got more treats. So magnitude 00:13:28.019 --> 00:13:32.559 is an innate skill and that happens first. The 00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:35.299 second thing we need for learning math is to 00:13:35.299 --> 00:13:41.720 understand value. Value refers to quantity, how 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:46.320 many, on its own, not in relation to anything 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:51.000 else. And that's the basis of our counting. That's 00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:54.039 where we really start looking at value. And of 00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:56.139 course, that gets very complex because now we're 00:13:56.139 --> 00:14:01.120 coding words and Arabic numerals and a number 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:03.639 line onto quantity, but we'll save that for another 00:14:03.639 --> 00:14:07.799 day. All of that is wrapped up in value. The 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:11.100 thing about value and quantity is that it is 00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:16.460 not an innate skill. We do know that across the 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:21.139 globe even tribal communities with very little 00:14:21.139 --> 00:14:23.879 interaction with the outside world have an understanding 00:14:23.879 --> 00:14:32.519 of 123 more or 123 many but in a collective society 00:14:32.519 --> 00:14:35.200 you really don't do a lot of counting beyond 00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:41.179 that so quantity has a different interpretation 00:14:41.179 --> 00:14:44.230 different usage depending on where you are And 00:14:44.230 --> 00:14:47.950 here's where it's not an innate skill. If you 00:14:47.950 --> 00:14:50.009 look at the numbers in the article, they used 00:14:50.009 --> 00:14:56.190 29 versus 45. These are both two -digit numbers. 00:14:57.549 --> 00:15:02.029 The 2 and the 9, and the 4 and the 5. They're 00:15:02.029 --> 00:15:04.610 both odd numbers. One ends in 9, one ends in 00:15:04.610 --> 00:15:08.769 5. They have a lot of similarities. If you were 00:15:08.769 --> 00:15:10.789 writing them out in word form, they would both 00:15:10.789 --> 00:15:15.019 have a dash in the middle. 20 -9, 40 -5, so there's 00:15:15.019 --> 00:15:19.799 a lot of similarities. Understanding their value 00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:26.980 that having 29 pencils means you have fewer than 00:15:26.980 --> 00:15:32.720 if you had 45 pencils, that quantity is something 00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:35.980 we have to teach. And that is very much tied 00:15:35.980 --> 00:15:39.879 to a number line, 1 -100 charts, We know that 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:42.899 it can be problematic for people with dyscalculia, 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:47.120 so we want to use external number lines, 1 -100 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:49.799 charts, manipulatives much longer than we would 00:15:49.799 --> 00:15:52.799 for a neurotypical student because we know that 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:57.519 could be an issue, a place of slower development, 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:00.720 if you will. A lot of students with dyscalculia 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:04.019 don't develop a mental number line in the same 00:16:04.019 --> 00:16:06.659 fashion or at the same time as a neurotypical 00:16:06.659 --> 00:16:12.309 student. The third piece of learning math involves 00:16:12.309 --> 00:16:16.990 procedures. That comes down to how do we add, 00:16:17.049 --> 00:16:19.450 how do we subtract, what are the steps for problem 00:16:19.450 --> 00:16:24.009 solving, what are the algorithms of multiplication, 00:16:24.149 --> 00:16:28.149 especially with multi -digit numbers, the procedures 00:16:28.149 --> 00:16:31.110 that we follow. And here's the thing about procedures. 00:16:31.730 --> 00:16:36.159 You have to learn them and learn them. and learn 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:40.179 them again. You have to over learn procedures 00:16:40.179 --> 00:16:45.620 before they become anywhere near automatic. You 00:16:45.620 --> 00:16:49.100 need extra time with procedures and I do think 00:16:49.100 --> 00:16:53.360 that's something that is missing in most of our 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:58.000 K -12 schools in math class. Does not mean that 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:01.120 we should not have fun projects and exploration 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:04.779 and discussion We absolutely should but we cannot 00:17:04.779 --> 00:17:08.099 throw out the procedural baby with the bathwater 00:17:08.099 --> 00:17:11.779 Procedures have to be learned over and over and 00:17:11.779 --> 00:17:17.180 over again for all students neurotypical or neurodivergent 00:17:17.180 --> 00:17:20.859 However, we do know that people with dyscalculia 00:17:20.859 --> 00:17:25.549 of any age do have more trouble remembering and 00:17:25.549 --> 00:17:27.650 recalling steps and procedures. They can get 00:17:27.650 --> 00:17:30.730 lost in complex procedures. If you've taught 00:17:30.730 --> 00:17:32.809 long division to a student with dyscalculia, 00:17:32.809 --> 00:17:35.490 you know exactly what I'm talking about. And 00:17:35.490 --> 00:17:39.390 a lot of our larger problem -solving steps in 00:17:39.390 --> 00:17:42.349 algebra, we run into these procedural issues. 00:17:42.970 --> 00:17:45.670 So procedural fluency is not something to put 00:17:45.670 --> 00:17:48.609 to the side. It's very, very important, and it's 00:17:48.609 --> 00:17:52.609 a huge part of learning math. The fourth piece, 00:17:52.750 --> 00:17:56.769 is conceptualizing and this one is a trending 00:17:56.769 --> 00:18:00.130 keyword in math instruction these days making 00:18:00.130 --> 00:18:03.690 sure students conceptualize what's happening 00:18:03.690 --> 00:18:07.430 in a math problem with the goal that they will 00:18:07.430 --> 00:18:09.650 then remember the concept and this will help 00:18:09.650 --> 00:18:12.529 them remember the procedures and it will help 00:18:12.529 --> 00:18:17.150 them intuit what they might do for a strategy. 00:18:18.190 --> 00:18:21.289 So conceptualizing has a lot of rich benefits. 00:18:21.759 --> 00:18:24.900 However, how do we really know what someone else's 00:18:24.900 --> 00:18:28.839 concept of anything is? This is some higher level 00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:31.940 thinking that we may or may not be able to explain 00:18:31.940 --> 00:18:35.779 very well, especially for young children, but 00:18:35.779 --> 00:18:37.980 I know plenty of adults who have problems explaining 00:18:37.980 --> 00:18:41.000 themselves, so conceptualizing and communicating 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:45.680 are not innate skills. And also, even with the 00:18:45.680 --> 00:18:48.890 best class discussion, We really don't know how 00:18:48.890 --> 00:18:52.150 much a person understands or if they understand 00:18:52.150 --> 00:18:54.849 and interpret the same way we do. Are they using 00:18:54.849 --> 00:18:59.390 vocabulary in the same way? Does that conceptualizing 00:18:59.390 --> 00:19:04.869 really fire procedural memory and fact fluency? 00:19:05.269 --> 00:19:07.769 That's something that we really need more studies 00:19:07.769 --> 00:19:11.950 on. So the jury is still out on that. Of course 00:19:11.950 --> 00:19:14.589 conceptualizing is important. Of course it's 00:19:14.589 --> 00:19:17.650 something we need to include in math class. Is 00:19:17.650 --> 00:19:20.009 it something we need to include in an assessment? 00:19:20.369 --> 00:19:24.210 I'm not sure about that. I think that's part 00:19:24.210 --> 00:19:26.250 of a much larger discussion which I'm sure we'll 00:19:26.250 --> 00:19:31.049 have in future podcast episodes. So to wrap up, 00:19:31.490 --> 00:19:34.049 this excellent learning math article by Das and 00:19:34.049 --> 00:19:38.529 Jansen, two domains we're concerned with, domain 00:19:38.529 --> 00:19:43.910 general and domain specific, and how those affect 00:19:43.910 --> 00:19:47.230 a person with a math learning disability. You 00:19:47.230 --> 00:19:50.109 can use things like chunking. You can use things 00:19:50.109 --> 00:19:53.250 like reducing cognitive load stress on short 00:19:53.250 --> 00:19:57.609 -term memory. You can help with planning and 00:19:57.609 --> 00:20:00.049 have more discussions about how a problem might 00:20:00.049 --> 00:20:04.529 be solved. You can help the domain specific by 00:20:04.529 --> 00:20:09.009 using external tools like a 1 to 100 chart, number 00:20:09.009 --> 00:20:12.890 lines, manipulatives, multiplication lists, to 00:20:12.890 --> 00:20:18.410 support those domain -specific issues and get 00:20:18.410 --> 00:20:20.890 to know your students and how rigid or flexible 00:20:20.890 --> 00:20:23.289 they are in their thinking. That will help you 00:20:23.289 --> 00:20:25.430 know how many strategies they can choose from 00:20:25.430 --> 00:20:29.569 at one time. The four things we need to learn 00:20:29.569 --> 00:20:32.210 math. First, magnitude. We get that already. 00:20:32.269 --> 00:20:35.930 It's just a bonus of being alive. Value. That's 00:20:35.930 --> 00:20:39.859 a quantity we have to teach. Procedures. Whenever 00:20:39.859 --> 00:20:41.619 you're teaching them, you gotta teach them more, 00:20:41.740 --> 00:20:43.740 you gotta say them again, you gotta make a poster 00:20:43.740 --> 00:20:46.380 and put it up on the wall. You have to discuss 00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:48.519 the procedures you're gonna follow at the beginning, 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:52.259 middle, and end of class. You cannot drive home 00:20:52.259 --> 00:20:56.640 procedures too many times. That's exactly how 00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.579 a procedure becomes automatic through over -learning 00:21:00.579 --> 00:21:04.319 that skill. And then finally, conceptualizing, 00:21:04.460 --> 00:21:07.400 which is the holy grail of any math instruction, 00:21:07.940 --> 00:21:10.900 but... My two cents, I don't think it needs to 00:21:10.900 --> 00:21:14.500 be the holy grail of math assessments. Okay, 00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:16.819 so that's everything I got out of that article 00:21:16.819 --> 00:21:20.160 so far, but there's more. I want to dig into 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:22.960 that, and we might revisit this article in a 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:25.819 future podcast episode. Thank you so much for 00:21:25.819 --> 00:21:28.000 listening to What in the World is Dyscalculia? 00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:30.859 I would love to hear your comments, questions, 00:21:31.240 --> 00:21:33.980 and suggestions for future podcast episodes. 00:21:34.420 --> 00:21:43.490 You can find me at or you can find me at honora 00:21:43.490 --> 00:21:48.349 at eduCalcLearning .com. Visit our websites eduCalcLearning 00:21:48.349 --> 00:21:53.670 .com and thedtri .org and find me at conferences. 00:21:53.769 --> 00:21:57.549 I've got a whole bunch already lined up for 2026. 00:21:57.710 --> 00:22:00.750 I'm super excited to go around the country talking 00:22:00.750 --> 00:22:03.950 about dyscalculia. If you know of a good conference 00:22:03.950 --> 00:22:07.470 near where you live, send it to me. I will do 00:22:07.470 --> 00:22:10.849 my best to get there. And as always thank you 00:22:10.849 --> 00:22:14.890 for your support in increasing awareness and 00:22:14.890 --> 00:22:17.589 support for people with the math learning disability 00:22:17.589 --> 00:22:18.549 dyscalculia.