WEBVTT 00:00:02.830 --> 00:00:06.269 Hi, welcome to the What in the World is dyscalculia 00:00:06.269 --> 00:00:10.070 podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Honora Wall, 00:00:10.750 --> 00:00:14.109 and What in the World is dyscalculia is sponsored 00:00:14.109 --> 00:00:18.309 by Educalc Learning. Educalc Learning is a company 00:00:18.309 --> 00:00:21.910 that offers teacher training, classes for homeschool 00:00:21.910 --> 00:00:26.210 students, and guidance on the math learning disability. 00:00:26.890 --> 00:00:29.989 I'm also the founder and executive director of 00:00:29.989 --> 00:00:32.509 the Dyscalculia Training and Research Institute. 00:00:32.969 --> 00:00:35.950 That is a non -profit organization that works 00:00:35.950 --> 00:00:39.210 with school districts, state departments of education, 00:00:39.789 --> 00:00:44.310 and schools for a variety of trainings and research 00:00:44.310 --> 00:00:47.570 topics around dyscalculia. And that's what we 00:00:47.570 --> 00:00:51.549 talk about in this podcast. So this is the first 00:00:51.549 --> 00:00:56.840 episode of season three. We have some goals this 00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:58.979 year. I'm glad you're going to be part of this 00:00:58.979 --> 00:01:02.219 journey with us. One is to bring you a lot more 00:01:02.219 --> 00:01:06.400 research from a variety of researchers doing 00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:09.159 some excellent work in the field of dyscalculia. 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:12.640 That's really important because the published 00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:16.920 research of dyslexia compared to dyscalculia 00:01:16.920 --> 00:01:21.239 is running about 10 to 1 right now. We have some 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:23.459 great stuff out there about the math learning 00:01:23.459 --> 00:01:26.980 disability. but we need a lot more. And the first 00:01:26.980 --> 00:01:31.140 step is to raise awareness and talk about dyscalculia 00:01:31.140 --> 00:01:35.040 and encourage more researchers to join us in 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:39.859 getting more studies underway and out into some 00:01:39.859 --> 00:01:43.700 peer -reviewed journals. Another big goal we 00:01:43.700 --> 00:01:47.319 have for the podcast this season is to bring 00:01:47.319 --> 00:01:51.280 you more guests and to have more discussion with 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:55.400 other leaders in the field and other education 00:01:55.400 --> 00:01:58.400 leaders who are talking about social emotional 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:02.280 learning and executive function issues and all 00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:06.159 sorts of topics. If you have an idea for a topic 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:08.580 that you'd like to know more about or someone 00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:11.479 you'd like to see included in our podcast, please 00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:16.120 reach out to me. I'm pretty easy to find. First, 00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:21.599 you can email me at Honora, H -O -N -O -R -A, 00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:29.340 at EDUCALCLEARNING .COM or Honora at theDTRI .ORG. 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:33.400 So let's jump into today's topic. And I wanted 00:02:33.400 --> 00:02:38.340 to start with a research study that I found just 00:02:38.340 --> 00:02:42.900 fascinating. I included in all of my training 00:02:42.900 --> 00:02:46.629 for teachers around dyscalculia ever since I 00:02:46.629 --> 00:02:49.849 came across it. It's really an exciting one and 00:02:49.849 --> 00:02:57.810 this came from, there we go, Dr. Katie Lewis 00:02:57.810 --> 00:03:02.569 who is in Washington State and she is a professor 00:03:02.569 --> 00:03:06.189 and she did this research study on dyscalculia 00:03:06.189 --> 00:03:11.250 with one of her college students who has dyscalculia 00:03:11.250 --> 00:03:16.199 and was studying to become a statistician to 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:19.280 study statistics and did that very successfully. 00:03:20.379 --> 00:03:24.199 So Dr. Lewis wanted to know how did she get to 00:03:24.199 --> 00:03:28.180 that point in her journey because a lot of college 00:03:28.180 --> 00:03:31.639 students with dyscalculia do not study math. 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:35.240 And sadly, a lot of people with dyscalculia have 00:03:35.240 --> 00:03:38.719 trouble getting into college. or successfully 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:42.199 staying in college because of the math class 00:03:42.199 --> 00:03:46.879 requirements. The problem there is not the math 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:50.360 or the math class, it's usually the setup and 00:03:50.360 --> 00:03:54.719 the structure. A lot of times in college students 00:03:54.719 --> 00:03:57.699 don't get the kind of accommodations and support 00:03:57.699 --> 00:04:01.680 that they should, and a lot of math professors 00:04:02.270 --> 00:04:05.469 haven't really heard about dyscalculia and aren't 00:04:05.469 --> 00:04:08.129 sure what it is or what they should do to support 00:04:08.129 --> 00:04:11.550 students who have it. So definitely need more 00:04:11.550 --> 00:04:15.409 awareness in the higher ed sphere. And here's 00:04:15.409 --> 00:04:18.389 a great research study for math professors to 00:04:18.389 --> 00:04:20.850 start with, but it also has really good information 00:04:20.850 --> 00:04:27.050 in the K12 system. Here's what the study found 00:04:27.050 --> 00:04:30.870 in a nutshell. Going to jump right to the summary 00:04:30.870 --> 00:04:34.550 section. rather than go through the methodology 00:04:34.550 --> 00:04:38.610 and participant description. In future podcasts, 00:04:38.649 --> 00:04:41.089 we might do that, but I'm not sure how many people 00:04:41.089 --> 00:04:45.029 listening really want to take a deep dive into 00:04:45.029 --> 00:04:49.310 the statistics of qualitative and quantitative 00:04:49.310 --> 00:04:52.970 research studies. If you do, let me know. I'm 00:04:52.970 --> 00:04:56.709 happy to talk more about those details. But what 00:04:56.709 --> 00:04:59.470 Dr. Lewis found when she did a case study with 00:04:59.470 --> 00:05:03.019 her student was that this particular young woman 00:05:03.019 --> 00:05:07.779 had spent most of her K -12 experience supporting 00:05:07.779 --> 00:05:13.079 herself in her math struggles. Common story, 00:05:13.300 --> 00:05:16.139 her teachers were not aware of dyscalculia, what 00:05:16.139 --> 00:05:19.060 it is, where it comes from, what the hallmark 00:05:19.060 --> 00:05:22.160 features are, or how to best support students. 00:05:22.939 --> 00:05:25.699 So she was not getting a lot of direct and explicit 00:05:25.699 --> 00:05:31.069 instruction consistently. She didn't have a lot 00:05:31.069 --> 00:05:36.189 of accommodations for having notes or her examples 00:05:36.189 --> 00:05:39.089 with her during assessments. That was tricky. 00:05:39.509 --> 00:05:41.870 And then what do you do with extended time that 00:05:41.870 --> 00:05:45.449 really has to be trained? So there were some 00:05:45.449 --> 00:05:49.810 key struggles. She was able to successfully compensate 00:05:49.810 --> 00:05:53.670 and learn what worked best for her through a 00:05:53.670 --> 00:05:56.410 lot of trial and error. And one thing that really 00:05:56.540 --> 00:06:00.600 became clear in this study was the incredible 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:04.759 amount of time this student had to spend outside 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:09.620 of class. Much, much greater than what any neurotypical 00:06:09.620 --> 00:06:12.120 student spends, even those who have straight 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:15.740 A's and who study and really devote themselves 00:06:15.740 --> 00:06:19.019 to being good at math. Having dyscalculia, this 00:06:19.019 --> 00:06:21.839 student really had to fight a lot harder. So 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:24.360 some of the things she found that were very successful 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:29.529 for her. The first was finding and using her 00:06:29.529 --> 00:06:32.870 preferred type of graph paper. She used four 00:06:32.870 --> 00:06:36.550 squares per inch, the very oversized so she could 00:06:36.550 --> 00:06:38.689 really see what was going on. And this helped 00:06:38.689 --> 00:06:43.449 her align her math problems and space out her 00:06:43.449 --> 00:06:46.470 work so that later she could really see what 00:06:46.470 --> 00:06:49.050 was going on. She had plenty of space to work 00:06:49.050 --> 00:06:53.069 with. She found that using one particular kind 00:06:53.069 --> 00:06:56.269 of pencil and eraser, worked best for her. And 00:06:56.269 --> 00:06:58.470 this makes a lot of sense to me. If you've tried 00:06:58.470 --> 00:07:01.069 using different pencils and erasers or sometimes 00:07:01.069 --> 00:07:06.250 using pen, you know that the thickness, the quality, 00:07:06.430 --> 00:07:10.509 the sharpness of a pencil, that all makes a difference 00:07:10.509 --> 00:07:12.610 in your writing style, whether or not you can 00:07:12.610 --> 00:07:16.050 really see your work later. And it can even impact 00:07:16.050 --> 00:07:19.490 the feeling. If I'm using a pencil, it has to 00:07:19.490 --> 00:07:22.939 be sharp enough to kill. Otherwise, I'm constantly 00:07:22.939 --> 00:07:27.060 sharpening it. I don't like a dull pencil. Also, 00:07:27.060 --> 00:07:29.079 when you're using different kinds of erasers, 00:07:29.300 --> 00:07:32.939 some erasers are only an eraser in name. They 00:07:32.939 --> 00:07:35.259 don't actually erase anything. They just smudge 00:07:35.259 --> 00:07:38.519 everything around on your paper. Makes it very 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:41.879 distracting and hard to work with. Sometimes 00:07:41.879 --> 00:07:45.180 they just make your paper fall apart. Sometimes 00:07:45.180 --> 00:07:49.610 they just crumble and disintegrate. In order 00:07:49.610 --> 00:07:52.509 to avoid any of those frustrations and make sure 00:07:52.509 --> 00:07:54.810 she knew that when she was working everything 00:07:54.810 --> 00:07:57.870 would go smoothly, she stuck to one consistent 00:07:57.870 --> 00:08:01.209 brand. You may or may not find that when you're 00:08:01.209 --> 00:08:03.610 finding your own support tools, but consider 00:08:03.610 --> 00:08:08.709 that because every aspect of practicing math 00:08:08.709 --> 00:08:12.509 can impact your experience and we want to make 00:08:12.509 --> 00:08:15.170 it as smooth as possible. That way it's enjoyable. 00:08:15.339 --> 00:08:17.560 You're going to remember more. You're going to 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:19.720 feel good about it. You're more likely to do 00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:23.920 the work later. So keep all these things in mind. 00:08:24.980 --> 00:08:27.560 She also used a lot of colored pens, which I'm 00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:30.459 also a huge fan of. What this student would do 00:08:30.459 --> 00:08:34.120 is make her own color coding system for her notes 00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:38.059 so that she used certain colors to trigger either 00:08:38.059 --> 00:08:42.470 certain operations or certain examples. For me, 00:08:42.889 --> 00:08:46.990 I use color a lot with geometry so it can really 00:08:46.990 --> 00:08:49.990 train people exactly where to look and we're 00:08:49.990 --> 00:08:54.450 matching vocabulary with the shape or the part 00:08:54.450 --> 00:08:59.169 of an object or the specific angle or sides we 00:08:59.169 --> 00:09:02.830 need to focus on. So color is a very effective 00:09:02.830 --> 00:09:06.230 tool. You don't want to make everything a different 00:09:06.230 --> 00:09:08.350 rainbow color. You want to have some meaning 00:09:08.350 --> 00:09:12.830 or consistency behind it so that it draws your 00:09:12.830 --> 00:09:16.730 focus. And this one made a lot of sense to me 00:09:16.730 --> 00:09:19.769 after having worked with students who have dyscalculia, 00:09:19.909 --> 00:09:23.350 but the amount of time I just felt very much 00:09:23.350 --> 00:09:27.509 for this student. When she would go home after 00:09:27.509 --> 00:09:32.330 class and rewrite her notes, which she did all 00:09:32.330 --> 00:09:35.539 the time, Instead of using those mathematical 00:09:35.539 --> 00:09:38.799 symbols like a plus sign, a minus sign, parentheses 00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:41.159 for distributive property, things like that, 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:45.860 she would rewrite everything using words. So 00:09:45.860 --> 00:09:49.559 instead of an Arabic digit of three with a plus 00:09:49.559 --> 00:09:52.539 sign, Arabic digit of five, this is my example 00:09:52.539 --> 00:09:57.519 I'm using for you, she would write out three 00:09:57.519 --> 00:10:07.769 T -H -R -E -E space plus P -L -U -S That way 00:10:07.769 --> 00:10:11.929 when she was reading it later she had a narrative 00:10:11.929 --> 00:10:15.669 and I do find a lot of my students with dyscalculia 00:10:15.669 --> 00:10:17.929 prefer this method when we're trying to figure 00:10:17.929 --> 00:10:21.509 out how they can write notes that will help them 00:10:21.509 --> 00:10:25.509 prepare for an assessment. You really want to 00:10:25.509 --> 00:10:29.750 practice having a future conversation with yourself. 00:10:30.169 --> 00:10:33.019 Harder than it sounds. So it might take you a 00:10:33.019 --> 00:10:35.299 few tries before you really land on something 00:10:35.299 --> 00:10:38.679 that works best for you. Some students will write 00:10:38.679 --> 00:10:41.519 step one, step two, step three next to their 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:44.960 worked examples, or they might put full sentences. 00:10:45.259 --> 00:10:47.720 Now, of course, if a student has dyslexia or 00:10:47.720 --> 00:10:50.220 dysgraphia, that might not be their first choice, 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:53.919 but you could also use a voice to text to help 00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:56.919 out with that. But anything that will help the 00:10:56.919 --> 00:10:59.159 notes make sense to you later. Because a lot 00:10:59.159 --> 00:11:01.179 of students would just calculia find that they 00:11:01.179 --> 00:11:05.720 will take excellent notes. And within 24 hours, 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:09.480 they can look back at those notes and go, well, 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:12.919 I have no idea what I meant. So play around with 00:11:12.919 --> 00:11:16.759 note taking and give yourself the space to see 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:19.519 what works, what doesn't, and make some changes. 00:11:21.230 --> 00:11:24.269 A couple of other things this student did was 00:11:24.269 --> 00:11:29.070 to create a running dictionary for herself. And 00:11:29.070 --> 00:11:32.769 this contained the different mathematical symbols, 00:11:32.950 --> 00:11:36.289 what they meant. We use so much shorthand, especially 00:11:36.289 --> 00:11:39.889 in upper level math. And we do that because mathematicians 00:11:39.889 --> 00:11:43.309 like to make things as efficient and simple as 00:11:43.309 --> 00:11:46.169 possible. You might not know it when you're trying 00:11:46.169 --> 00:11:49.990 to teach yourself. upper level now for sure but 00:11:49.990 --> 00:11:52.769 it is a way of making things very smooth and 00:11:52.769 --> 00:11:56.110 fast quick and efficient but if you're not sure 00:11:56.110 --> 00:11:59.649 how to interpret those symbols then they're not 00:11:59.649 --> 00:12:01.909 very helpful and you're not going to get that 00:12:01.909 --> 00:12:08.889 meaning excuse me so uh very dusty here today 00:12:08.889 --> 00:12:11.649 doing this longer podcast i should have made 00:12:11.649 --> 00:12:16.399 a hot tea all right So this dictionary she would 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:19.279 build out over time, so it made sense to her. 00:12:19.779 --> 00:12:22.580 She would rewrite any problems from class in 00:12:22.580 --> 00:12:26.440 a format that was consistent for her and the 00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:29.580 way that she could best solve them. And she used 00:12:29.580 --> 00:12:33.860 a consistent solution style every time. That 00:12:33.860 --> 00:12:36.039 way she wasn't having to constantly look for 00:12:36.039 --> 00:12:38.399 the best option for a certain thing. She knew 00:12:38.399 --> 00:12:41.759 exactly what to do. and she had to spend a lot 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:45.179 of time trying to find real world examples for 00:12:45.179 --> 00:12:49.500 herself. That's a good message for us as teachers. 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:53.980 We need to spend some more time taking abstract 00:12:53.980 --> 00:12:57.419 concepts and making them real world examples 00:12:57.419 --> 00:13:00.159 our students can connect with. The important 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:03.419 thing to remember when we're doing that is that 00:13:03.419 --> 00:13:06.259 we don't live in their world and they don't live 00:13:06.259 --> 00:13:09.659 in ours. So something that's real world for an 00:13:09.659 --> 00:13:12.879 adult is not going to be a real world example 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:16.399 for a student. So just think about math differently. 00:13:16.500 --> 00:13:20.899 And you can really teach any math class in the 00:13:20.899 --> 00:13:23.039 room you're sitting in. Your real world examples 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:25.779 can come from the concrete in your immediate 00:13:25.779 --> 00:13:28.460 vicinity. They can come from your local park. 00:13:28.860 --> 00:13:32.259 They can come from the classroom. They can come 00:13:32.259 --> 00:13:35.860 from your house driving to and from school. But 00:13:35.860 --> 00:13:39.480 a lot of our word problems especially in most 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:41.700 of our math curriculums don't really do that. 00:13:42.940 --> 00:13:45.960 So spend more time talking with your students 00:13:45.960 --> 00:13:48.360 with dyscalculia and see if you can make some 00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:52.200 real world examples in the space you're in because 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:55.159 that truly is the world that you're both sharing. 00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:58.340 So if you want to know more about that study, 00:13:58.759 --> 00:14:01.720 look up Dr. Katie Lewis. She does have other 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:04.200 research studies out there, a lot of really great 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:07.240 information, and I think this is a great way 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:11.100 for us to bridge that gap between research studies 00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:14.600 and what we can do practically in the classroom. 00:14:15.980 --> 00:14:20.340 I come from a pragmatic lens for my frame of 00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:23.399 reference around education. What do we need to 00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:26.440 do and how do we get it done? And for most of 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:28.879 our students, what they need to do is pass math 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:32.580 class so that they can maintain grade level work 00:14:32.580 --> 00:14:36.019 and progression, so that they can graduate high 00:14:36.019 --> 00:14:38.580 school, so that they can complete their college 00:14:38.580 --> 00:14:43.419 degree and open up more career choices, more 00:14:43.419 --> 00:14:46.320 earning pathways, and have a better understanding 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:50.279 of themselves as students and as learners. I 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:53.799 can tell you from my work, Absolutely. Students 00:14:53.799 --> 00:14:57.120 with dyscalculia can and should do upper level 00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:59.960 math and science classes. They're more than capable. 00:15:00.860 --> 00:15:03.720 Those classes are much easier than elementary 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:07.039 school. Elementary math is much harder for people 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:10.700 with dyscalculia. And if we look at examples 00:15:10.700 --> 00:15:14.759 like the student Dr. Lewis included in this study, 00:15:15.179 --> 00:15:17.340 there's no reason why dyscalculia should keep 00:15:17.340 --> 00:15:20.799 a person from reaching any of their goals, including 00:15:21.820 --> 00:15:25.200 majoring in math and using that as the way to 00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:31.000 finish their college degree. Last goal for this 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:34.620 new year is to have summaries and links to some 00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:37.580 of these research studies on both of the websites. 00:15:37.940 --> 00:15:40.220 So if you want to know more about this study 00:15:40.220 --> 00:15:44.220 right now, go to Google Scholar or go to Google 00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:47.860 itself and type in Dr. Katie Lewis and find her 00:15:47.860 --> 00:15:50.590 and you can find more of her work. In the near 00:15:50.590 --> 00:15:53.929 future, keep checking our websites and look for 00:15:53.929 --> 00:15:57.330 more research studies to be included in that 00:15:57.330 --> 00:16:00.850 space. And then, of course, we have lots of reels 00:16:00.850 --> 00:16:03.149 on social media if you're looking for some quick 00:16:03.149 --> 00:16:07.090 bites of information. We have a support group 00:16:07.090 --> 00:16:09.789 for teachers on Facebook. That's a public group 00:16:09.789 --> 00:16:12.669 where you can meet colleagues and ask questions. 00:16:13.029 --> 00:16:16.700 And you can email me anytime. I'm Dr. Honora 00:16:16.700 --> 00:16:20.340 Wall. I love talking about dyscalculia and I 00:16:20.340 --> 00:16:23.039 thank you for being a part of this journey and 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:26.220 listening to the What in the World is Dyscalculia 00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:26.940 podcast.