WEBVTT 00:00:02.520 --> 00:00:05.599 Hi everybody, this is Dr. Honora Wall welcoming 00:00:05.599 --> 00:00:09.679 you to the What in the World is Dyscalculia podcast. 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:13.679 I'm making an audio version and a video version 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:16.820 of today's podcast. So if you're watching this 00:00:16.820 --> 00:00:20.760 on YouTube or one of the social media outlets, 00:00:21.140 --> 00:00:23.760 probably at some point we'll post it to the website. 00:00:24.140 --> 00:00:27.339 You can see the video portion with it. If you're 00:00:27.339 --> 00:00:30.140 listening to this on a podcast, then you're just 00:00:30.140 --> 00:00:33.850 going to get the audio. And we'll try to do both 00:00:33.850 --> 00:00:36.829 every once in a while with these podcasts as 00:00:36.829 --> 00:00:41.750 time and recording options permit. But the What 00:00:41.750 --> 00:00:44.609 in the World is Dyscalculia podcast is brought 00:00:44.609 --> 00:00:47.850 to you by Educalc Learning. And at EducalcLearning 00:00:47.850 --> 00:00:52.090 .com, you can find all sorts of teacher training, 00:00:52.590 --> 00:00:56.530 workshops, either in person or online, and our 00:00:56.530 --> 00:00:59.869 graduate course credits. You can earn three graduate 00:00:59.869 --> 00:01:03.420 credits taking teaching students with dyscalculia 00:01:03.420 --> 00:01:07.540 or teaching differentiated math. Those credits 00:01:07.540 --> 00:01:11.560 are given through Colorado State University Pueblo 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:14.280 who we partner with and keep an eye out we've 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:17.659 got a lot more graduate level classes in the 00:01:17.659 --> 00:01:20.500 works that are in development right now. Super 00:01:20.500 --> 00:01:23.079 excited about those but I'll bring you more information 00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:27.219 about that at a future time because what I want 00:01:27.219 --> 00:01:30.750 to talk to you about today is a clash of the 00:01:30.750 --> 00:01:34.609 titans, instructional design versus cognitive 00:01:34.609 --> 00:01:38.870 load. So here's where this came about. I work 00:01:38.870 --> 00:01:42.430 with students across the country. I see a wide 00:01:42.430 --> 00:01:46.989 variety of math curriculums and programs, which 00:01:46.989 --> 00:01:49.750 is part of why I developed my own, which you 00:01:49.750 --> 00:01:53.689 can find at eduCalcLearning .com or the DTRI 00:01:53.689 --> 00:01:56.849 .org if you're using the It's Just Math program 00:01:56.849 --> 00:02:01.540 in your school. And I did them because I saw 00:02:01.540 --> 00:02:05.739 how my students with dyscalculia, dyslexia, dysgraphia, 00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:10.400 ADHD, etc. were really struggling to make themselves 00:02:10.400 --> 00:02:16.199 fit into, I will say, a traditional or standard 00:02:16.199 --> 00:02:20.120 online math class. And one of the big places 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:23.780 where students have a real issue is when classes 00:02:23.780 --> 00:02:28.020 have those longer projects. So that's what I'm 00:02:28.020 --> 00:02:30.879 talking about today. Now there's nothing wrong 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:34.659 with having a long project and there's nothing 00:02:34.659 --> 00:02:37.560 wrong with project -based learning. There's a 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:40.699 ton of research behind both of those and they 00:02:40.699 --> 00:02:44.479 can be really engaging and exciting for kids 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:47.020 and get them really plugged into the content 00:02:47.020 --> 00:02:51.439 you're talking about in the right circumstances. 00:02:52.840 --> 00:02:56.800 Now I am also not going to talk badly about the 00:02:56.800 --> 00:02:59.960 best practices around instructional design. There 00:02:59.960 --> 00:03:01.699 are some great things happening in the world 00:03:01.699 --> 00:03:06.240 of instructional design both for K -16 students 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:09.560 and it's used a lot for onboarding or ongoing 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:11.919 training in the corporate world and there's some 00:03:11.919 --> 00:03:14.840 really exciting software out there that can make 00:03:14.840 --> 00:03:18.860 the training or the course come alive and that's 00:03:18.860 --> 00:03:21.500 what these longer projects are really designed 00:03:21.500 --> 00:03:26.900 to do. However, just because something is great 00:03:26.900 --> 00:03:30.990 doesn't mean it's great all the time for every 00:03:30.990 --> 00:03:33.330 student. And as you know, if you've listened 00:03:33.330 --> 00:03:36.849 to the podcast or seen any of the reels I put 00:03:36.849 --> 00:03:40.030 up, when you're working with students who have 00:03:40.030 --> 00:03:43.409 dyscalculia, it just needs to be different. It's 00:03:43.409 --> 00:03:47.090 really like the difference between nutrition 00:03:47.090 --> 00:03:52.550 and exercise advice for a type 2 diabetic versus 00:03:52.550 --> 00:03:57.870 a type 1 diabetic. They're just different. So 00:03:57.870 --> 00:04:01.129 you want to take a really specific approach for 00:04:01.129 --> 00:04:04.729 the type 1 diabetic because it's really crucial 00:04:04.729 --> 00:04:08.409 that you get it right and you want to take the 00:04:08.409 --> 00:04:11.490 absolute correct approach for a student with 00:04:11.490 --> 00:04:14.430 dyscalculia because otherwise it's not going 00:04:14.430 --> 00:04:17.350 to work and Here's why I want to break it down 00:04:17.350 --> 00:04:21.370 for you I'll use a recent example with an unnamed 00:04:21.370 --> 00:04:25.850 student using an unnamed online math program 00:04:26.859 --> 00:04:29.959 that we've been helping her out with and working 00:04:29.959 --> 00:04:33.319 through with her. And I'm not naming the program 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:36.579 because many of them come from the same kind 00:04:36.579 --> 00:04:39.560 of skeleton, the same original program anyway, 00:04:40.060 --> 00:04:42.060 or there's a lot of replication. You just see 00:04:42.060 --> 00:04:45.019 the same thing in a lot of different programs. 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:49.220 So you get one or two spots throughout a semester 00:04:49.220 --> 00:04:53.180 where you have a longer project. In this case, 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:57.779 the project online in the course with some beautiful 00:04:57.779 --> 00:05:00.540 instructional design, some really great little 00:05:00.540 --> 00:05:03.459 videos, some interactive pieces. Those are super 00:05:03.459 --> 00:05:06.000 fun to make and super fun to play around with 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:08.860 where different kinds of information can pop 00:05:08.860 --> 00:05:14.180 up and it goes along with a PDF with the questions. 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:16.639 A lot of scaffolding, a lot of breaking things 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:19.540 down into smaller parts, tons of research behind 00:05:19.540 --> 00:05:23.339 that being a best practice for teaching. So why 00:05:23.339 --> 00:05:27.819 is any of this a problem? Here's why. The student 00:05:27.819 --> 00:05:32.439 logs in, opens up the project, there's a ton 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:34.759 of buttons, there's a lot of things to click. 00:05:35.220 --> 00:05:37.220 It's not really clear which thing you're supposed 00:05:37.220 --> 00:05:39.220 to click, so you do a lot of hovering and trying 00:05:39.220 --> 00:05:41.399 to click to see what kind of things are gonna 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:44.860 open up. Is there a video component? Is there 00:05:44.860 --> 00:05:48.439 an audio component? Are there little dots or 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:51.100 stars and you hover and it gives information 00:05:51.100 --> 00:05:53.740 or you click sometimes and it gives information. 00:05:54.060 --> 00:05:56.439 They're all different and sometimes you get different 00:05:56.439 --> 00:06:01.480 elements within one project. Okay that's one 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:04.699 type of cognitive load and if you're not familiar 00:06:04.699 --> 00:06:07.399 with cognitive load theory please go read up 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:10.319 about it. I will definitely do more episodes 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:13.279 where we take a deep dive into the three types 00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:15.920 of cognitive load, how they interact, and how 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:18.480 that changes the student experience. But all 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:20.959 you need to know for today is that cognitive 00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:24.759 load is how much our brain can handle at one 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:29.459 time. The really short abbreviated version of 00:06:29.459 --> 00:06:32.740 cognitive load theory, which is a fantastic thing 00:06:32.740 --> 00:06:34.939 to read about and research. It's really interesting. 00:06:35.259 --> 00:06:39.240 It can really impact student performance when 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:42.449 you get that cognitive load piece right. And 00:06:42.449 --> 00:06:45.449 what cognitive load theory tells us in a nutshell 00:06:45.449 --> 00:06:48.889 is that once we overwhelm the system, there's 00:06:48.889 --> 00:06:51.110 no learning going on. We're barely keeping up 00:06:51.110 --> 00:06:54.829 with what we're doing as far as finishing an 00:06:54.829 --> 00:06:57.709 activity. We're not comprehending. We're not 00:06:57.709 --> 00:07:00.629 moving to short or long -term memory. We're not 00:07:00.629 --> 00:07:04.149 retaining. We're losing a lot of the information. 00:07:04.389 --> 00:07:07.730 And that's a shame because we're losing the math. 00:07:08.110 --> 00:07:11.329 And we're losing what the instructional designers 00:07:11.329 --> 00:07:15.129 spent a lot of time putting into some nice graphics 00:07:15.129 --> 00:07:18.709 and interactive elements. So the student goes 00:07:18.709 --> 00:07:23.189 to the PDF, opens this up. Well, unless you have 00:07:23.189 --> 00:07:25.689 the kind of nice software that lets you type 00:07:25.689 --> 00:07:28.490 in a PDF, you're not going to be able to type 00:07:28.490 --> 00:07:31.829 in this document on your computer. It has to 00:07:31.829 --> 00:07:35.829 be a PDF because otherwise, A student could open 00:07:35.829 --> 00:07:38.189 something up and change it. So we have to maintain 00:07:38.189 --> 00:07:40.329 the integrity of the document. That makes perfect 00:07:40.329 --> 00:07:44.129 sense, too. All right. So we can't type in it. 00:07:44.129 --> 00:07:46.850 Now what is the student going to do? Maybe they 00:07:46.850 --> 00:07:49.910 can open it in Google Docs if they have that 00:07:49.910 --> 00:07:53.889 program. If it opens properly and if it opens 00:07:53.889 --> 00:07:56.709 in a way that allows you to type in it, it should. 00:07:57.269 --> 00:08:01.009 But for this student, it did not. All right. 00:08:01.550 --> 00:08:04.459 So we cannot access it that way. What else can 00:08:04.459 --> 00:08:07.060 we do? Well, we could try opening it as a Word 00:08:07.060 --> 00:08:11.360 document. Ooh -wee! That messed up the formatting 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:13.759 to the point where it was completely unreadable 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:18.600 and completely unusable. Okay, now we're not 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:20.240 going to do that. Let's see what else we can 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:24.279 do. Maybe we can print it. Well, the laptop she 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:27.680 does her math homework on was not connected to 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:32.149 the home printer. All right. Can we send it to 00:08:32.149 --> 00:08:35.529 mom or dad? See if they can print it. Well, it 00:08:35.529 --> 00:08:38.929 wasn't really working. Not sure why. Mom and 00:08:38.929 --> 00:08:42.529 dad weren't in the session. So I have no idea 00:08:42.529 --> 00:08:45.990 what happened there, but it wouldn't print. Okay. 00:08:46.289 --> 00:08:49.509 So what else can we do? Well, she managed to 00:08:49.509 --> 00:08:51.649 find some printer that was hooked up to her phone. 00:08:51.690 --> 00:08:53.649 Now she had to save it, send it to the phone, 00:08:53.750 --> 00:08:55.549 find it on the phone, send it to the printer, 00:08:55.710 --> 00:09:00.169 print it out. Thank goodness the printer had 00:09:00.169 --> 00:09:03.610 ink and paper at that time. So this takes up 00:09:03.610 --> 00:09:08.450 an incredible amount of time during our session 00:09:08.450 --> 00:09:10.570 where we're supposed to be talking about math 00:09:10.570 --> 00:09:14.669 and the concept in this project. We haven't done 00:09:14.669 --> 00:09:17.070 any of that because we're still dealing with 00:09:17.070 --> 00:09:19.909 the technology piece and how we're going to get 00:09:19.909 --> 00:09:23.750 this project done. She could have written out 00:09:23.750 --> 00:09:28.279 the questions by hand. It was a four -page PDF 00:09:28.279 --> 00:09:30.500 document. She was not interested in writing all 00:09:30.500 --> 00:09:34.720 of that out by hand. I don't blame her. So we 00:09:34.720 --> 00:09:37.960 had to put this whole project to the side, pick 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:40.179 it up in a different session so that we could 00:09:40.179 --> 00:09:42.960 actually talk about some math. So now we've extended 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:46.039 the work. Now she's passed a deadline for the 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:49.899 project. This really increases her anxiety. It 00:09:49.899 --> 00:09:52.320 was just very difficult. If you've worked with 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:55.440 struggling students, You know the kind of frustration 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:58.000 I'm describing and we're not going to get a whole 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:00.919 lot of learning done When we're in that heightened 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:05.440 emotional state Okay, we get through some math 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:08.659 we come back to this project at a later session 00:10:08.659 --> 00:10:11.299 So now this is costing the family more money 00:10:11.299 --> 00:10:16.019 To hire me for a session and get through these 00:10:16.019 --> 00:10:18.259 topics. All right, but we have to get it done. 00:10:18.659 --> 00:10:22.860 So we get the PDF She's got it printed. We're 00:10:22.860 --> 00:10:25.039 going through the questions. Now we have to go 00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:28.919 from the question back to the computer, open 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.799 up the project again, find it. That took forever. 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:35.240 Open it up again. Now we're opening up all of 00:10:35.240 --> 00:10:38.860 the different elements within the project. And 00:10:38.860 --> 00:10:40.899 the instructional designers did a beautiful job. 00:10:41.019 --> 00:10:44.720 It was lovely to look at and fun to interact 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:49.200 with. What question did it answer? Where did 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:51.840 we find? What are we looking for? What's important 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:54.539 when we click these buttons? I don't know. We 00:10:54.539 --> 00:10:56.820 have to keep going back and forth. Every time 00:10:56.820 --> 00:10:59.240 we're shifting from the computer to the paper, 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:01.919 we're losing a little bit of her focus and attention. 00:11:02.259 --> 00:11:04.360 Now we go to the paper to find out what we're 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:06.720 looking for. Go back and click all the interactive 00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:09.340 elements to try to find that again. Write that 00:11:09.340 --> 00:11:12.360 thing down. Now as we're going through the project, 00:11:12.379 --> 00:11:15.039 because it's broken down into little steps, which 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:19.480 is best practices for teaching to break things 00:11:19.480 --> 00:11:23.039 down into manageable chunks it ended up being 00:11:23.039 --> 00:11:25.840 question I'm gonna make these numbers up but 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:30.980 question 23 fill in this number from question 00:11:30.980 --> 00:11:34.600 7 and this number from question 12 and then do 00:11:34.600 --> 00:11:36.759 this operation with it and we're flipping back 00:11:36.759 --> 00:11:39.200 and forth it was like completing your own tax 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:43.419 form use line 33 which comes from schedule C 00:11:43.419 --> 00:11:46.490 which comes from line 18 after you filled out 00:11:46.490 --> 00:11:50.789 the table. It was just an overwhelming amount 00:11:50.789 --> 00:11:54.149 of searching and finding and retrieving. Is this 00:11:54.149 --> 00:11:57.409 the right number? Who knows? Did she go to the 00:11:57.409 --> 00:11:59.789 right question? I don't know. We're working virtually. 00:11:59.929 --> 00:12:01.669 I can't really see what number she's grabbing. 00:12:01.769 --> 00:12:03.850 She's telling me I'm trying to remember what 00:12:03.850 --> 00:12:06.169 she said back when we were on question seven 00:12:06.169 --> 00:12:09.769 discussing and it just went on and on and on. 00:12:10.490 --> 00:12:14.779 By the time we got this project finished, I don't 00:12:14.779 --> 00:12:16.679 think she had really retained any of the math 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:19.539 part of that lesson. We had a separate discussion 00:12:19.539 --> 00:12:22.559 after we had finished everything, and she had 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:25.019 her work put aside so she could finish her summary 00:12:25.019 --> 00:12:28.139 later and get her work turned in. And we just 00:12:28.139 --> 00:12:31.159 discussed what the topic was about, what they 00:12:31.159 --> 00:12:36.019 were trying to get across, and calming her down 00:12:36.019 --> 00:12:39.100 because her frustration level was very high. 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.620 So we have to mitigate the cognitive load of 00:12:42.620 --> 00:12:45.580 being overwhelmed with these multiple inputs 00:12:45.580 --> 00:12:48.980 of information, managing her emotional state, 00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:52.480 the cognitive load of what made sense to her 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:55.259 previously about this project and what we had 00:12:55.259 --> 00:12:58.039 to create to make sense and how we had to talk 00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:02.460 about that. It was just a lot. It also took two 00:13:02.460 --> 00:13:04.639 or three different sessions before we really 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:10.019 got through discussing everything. Did she learn? 00:13:10.940 --> 00:13:14.960 I'm not even sure. Did she engage further with 00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:19.200 the real -world scenario? I don't think so. Did 00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:22.460 she take anything away from it that later she 00:13:22.460 --> 00:13:26.179 can think, oh, that reminds me of the time I... 00:13:26.179 --> 00:13:29.860 No. So we had some beautiful instructional design 00:13:29.860 --> 00:13:32.759 that completely clashed with what we know about 00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:35.779 cognitive load theory, especially for a student 00:13:35.779 --> 00:13:38.620 with a learning disability. especially for the 00:13:38.620 --> 00:13:41.659 math learning disability, dyscalculia, and it 00:13:41.659 --> 00:13:46.720 came together into a perfect storm. So why am 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:49.080 I bringing this up to you? Because if you're 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:51.159 working with students or if you are a student 00:13:51.159 --> 00:13:54.399 who has dyscalculia, I want you to understand 00:13:54.399 --> 00:13:57.100 that the frustration and the aggravation and 00:13:57.100 --> 00:13:59.679 doing all of this work, investing all of this 00:13:59.679 --> 00:14:03.480 time and energy and not getting a mathematical 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:08.750 return out of it is not about you. It's not really 00:14:08.750 --> 00:14:10.990 about the student. It's about these external 00:14:10.990 --> 00:14:14.190 factors, which is one of the parts of cognitive 00:14:14.190 --> 00:14:18.009 load. This situation involved all three parts 00:14:18.009 --> 00:14:23.049 of cognitive load, but it was really difficult. 00:14:23.710 --> 00:14:26.129 And a lot of programs have something like this 00:14:26.129 --> 00:14:28.690 that's overwhelmingly difficult for a lot of 00:14:28.690 --> 00:14:32.250 students. This student was very lucky because 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:35.419 We already had a relationship where we've worked 00:14:35.419 --> 00:14:38.440 together. We've talked about math before. She 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:40.700 knew we were going to reflect on it. We were 00:14:40.700 --> 00:14:42.960 going to discuss it and pull it apart and make 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.919 that part make sense. A lot of students don't 00:14:45.919 --> 00:14:48.759 have that, especially when they're doing online 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:52.919 work. If you're overseeing a student working 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:57.000 in a program like that, make sure you dive in 00:14:57.000 --> 00:15:01.159 to those projects. Help them figure out how to 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:04.919 open the PDF or however they're making their 00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:07.980 assessment, help them print it, help them get 00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:10.720 their materials together, help them navigate 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:14.360 the computer and where to find things hidden 00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:17.720 within this beautiful instructional design because 00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:22.340 it's not very clear. Once we take some of that 00:15:22.340 --> 00:15:25.159 frustration off the table, then they have a much 00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:29.080 better chance of engaging with the real world 00:15:29.080 --> 00:15:33.169 scenario, the story being told. within this project. 00:15:33.809 --> 00:15:37.509 Don't assume that a student, especially one who 00:15:37.509 --> 00:15:39.929 struggles, is going to make those connections 00:15:39.929 --> 00:15:43.389 on their own and is going to engage that way 00:15:43.389 --> 00:15:48.029 on their own. I mean, that's really what Vygotsky 00:15:48.029 --> 00:15:51.169 told us how long ago. You got to have a more 00:15:51.169 --> 00:15:53.549 knowledgeable other. I think Vygotsky's work 00:15:53.549 --> 00:15:55.889 on the more knowledgeable other is much more 00:15:55.889 --> 00:15:58.590 important than his work on the zone of proximal 00:15:58.590 --> 00:16:02.169 development. That's my theory. We have to have 00:16:02.169 --> 00:16:05.269 someone else we can discuss these topics with 00:16:05.269 --> 00:16:09.129 and we can work out a problem with. A lot of 00:16:09.129 --> 00:16:11.750 math is about problem solving, but unfortunately 00:16:11.750 --> 00:16:14.350 for students doing this work on their own, the 00:16:14.350 --> 00:16:17.950 problem solving is just getting through this 00:16:17.950 --> 00:16:20.690 really frustrating experience. That's a big part 00:16:20.690 --> 00:16:22.750 of why some of our students are just putting 00:16:22.750 --> 00:16:27.029 it in a chat GPT, typing in the first half of 00:16:27.029 --> 00:16:30.779 the first sentence. and boom here comes Brainly 00:16:30.779 --> 00:16:33.700 and Chegg and quite a few other online programs 00:16:33.700 --> 00:16:36.419 that already have the program or the project 00:16:36.419 --> 00:16:38.440 in there and they're just grabbing what they 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:41.879 can or they're doing minimal effort on their 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:43.720 own because they're not really sure what's going 00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:46.419 on or what you're asking of them and they're 00:16:46.419 --> 00:16:48.519 not getting the grade they want. Now we don't 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:52.500 have mastery, we don't have comprehension, we 00:16:52.500 --> 00:16:55.940 don't have engagement and we don't have a passing 00:16:55.940 --> 00:17:00.440 grade. So we have a perfect storm for this struggling 00:17:00.440 --> 00:17:06.400 student. If possible, I would recommend using 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:09.559 a program like mine or others are now starting 00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:12.680 to move away from those discussion -based assessments 00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:15.460 and the long projects and things like that in 00:17:15.460 --> 00:17:18.319 an online course because we know students aren't 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:21.369 really engaging the way we want them to. or the 00:17:21.369 --> 00:17:24.329 way we need them to. So find a program that doesn't 00:17:24.329 --> 00:17:26.630 have that element if you have a student with 00:17:26.630 --> 00:17:33.130 dyscalculia. Add in engaging projects and discussions 00:17:33.130 --> 00:17:36.410 on top of the online program they're doing. If 00:17:36.410 --> 00:17:39.549 you're using the It's Just Math program, we tell 00:17:39.549 --> 00:17:42.049 you how to do that. We want you to use that as 00:17:42.049 --> 00:17:44.789 a framework, as a basis, and then get the more 00:17:44.789 --> 00:17:47.490 knowledgeable other down there with the student 00:17:47.490 --> 00:17:52.539 engaging, enriching, expanding. if you are overseeing, 00:17:52.539 --> 00:17:57.259 and I know a lot of teachers are overseeing online 00:17:57.259 --> 00:18:00.380 instruction or students in online classes in 00:18:00.380 --> 00:18:03.380 a media center or a library, and you might have 00:18:03.380 --> 00:18:05.880 30 students in there logged into computers and 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:08.039 they're all taking different classes at the same 00:18:08.039 --> 00:18:12.359 time, and you're probably the librarian or the 00:18:12.359 --> 00:18:16.099 media center director or sometimes a para. So 00:18:16.099 --> 00:18:18.099 you're not going to have the kind of content 00:18:18.099 --> 00:18:20.180 knowledge in all of these different grade levels 00:18:20.180 --> 00:18:22.900 and all of these different areas. That's incredibly 00:18:22.900 --> 00:18:27.319 difficult. When you can, try to sit down and 00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:29.579 have conversations with students while they're 00:18:29.579 --> 00:18:32.400 working on those longer projects, help them out. 00:18:32.579 --> 00:18:36.400 It's going to give them some support, help them 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:40.140 engage, help them stay on top of their pacing. 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:43.380 to get these things done by the end of a school 00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:45.759 year or for grade recovery. There's lots of different 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:49.460 reasons why there are dates attached to this 00:18:49.460 --> 00:18:52.859 work. So, long story short, I just want you to 00:18:52.859 --> 00:18:56.539 be really aware of this. You can have a beautifully 00:18:56.539 --> 00:19:01.789 constructed project online in a math course and 00:19:01.789 --> 00:19:03.710 shout out to the instructional designers who 00:19:03.710 --> 00:19:06.970 are making things very engaging and and truly 00:19:06.970 --> 00:19:09.250 they're hard to code and they're hard to come 00:19:09.250 --> 00:19:11.369 up with and you make a storyboard and a script 00:19:11.369 --> 00:19:15.930 it's very involved hard work and shout out to 00:19:15.930 --> 00:19:18.529 the students who are pushing through even when 00:19:18.529 --> 00:19:22.069 these situations are very frustrating and overwhelming. 00:19:23.029 --> 00:19:27.210 What I'd really like to see is more tutors interventionist 00:19:27.210 --> 00:19:30.250 teachers parents, more knowledgeable others, 00:19:30.450 --> 00:19:32.789 wherever we're finding them, getting down in 00:19:32.789 --> 00:19:35.890 the trenches and helping students. You need to 00:19:35.890 --> 00:19:40.109 understand that part of the problem is not just 00:19:40.109 --> 00:19:44.329 the math. It's everything else going on in getting 00:19:44.329 --> 00:19:48.269 this math project completed. When we sit down 00:19:48.269 --> 00:19:51.289 with students and have a discussion and look 00:19:51.289 --> 00:19:54.309 at what they're going through, we find that there's 00:19:54.309 --> 00:19:58.390 a lot more involved than Boy, does this student 00:19:58.390 --> 00:20:01.710 know math or not? No, there's a lot more to discuss. 00:20:03.150 --> 00:20:06.329 So Clash of the Titans instructional design versus 00:20:06.329 --> 00:20:09.130 cognitive load. Sometimes it's hard to find a 00:20:09.130 --> 00:20:11.470 winner, but we can definitely find the loser 00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:15.390 in the battle and it's usually the student. So 00:20:15.390 --> 00:20:17.710 get in there with your students and help them 00:20:17.710 --> 00:20:20.990 out. If you'd like to know more about cognitive 00:20:20.990 --> 00:20:23.990 load theory, If you'd like to know a little more 00:20:23.990 --> 00:20:26.089 about instructional design, that one you can 00:20:26.089 --> 00:20:28.309 research. I don't have a lot of that on the websites. 00:20:28.809 --> 00:20:31.809 There's some really important best practices 00:20:31.809 --> 00:20:34.609 to follow in instructional design. If you'd like 00:20:34.609 --> 00:20:37.390 to know more about dyscalculia, check out either 00:20:37.390 --> 00:20:40.750 of the websites, eduCalcLearning .com or the 00:20:40.750 --> 00:20:45.150 DTRI .org. If you have questions or comments 00:20:45.150 --> 00:20:48.630 for me or a topic you'd like to hear about in 00:20:48.630 --> 00:20:52.299 a future episode, please send me an email, honora, 00:20:52.299 --> 00:20:57.000 h -o -n -o -r -a, at eduCalcLearning .com or 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:01.339 h0nora at thedtri .org. You can find me on all 00:21:01.339 --> 00:21:04.619 sorts of social media as well and at some conferences 00:21:04.619 --> 00:21:09.000 all over the country. And other than that, I 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:11.279 really appreciate your time today. Thank you 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:14.299 for listening to What in the World is Dyscalculia? 00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:17.039 I hope that you got some good information that 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:21.089 will help you and your students and We will chat 00:21:21.089 --> 00:21:21.630 again soon.