WEBVTT 00:00:01.290 --> 00:00:04.830 Hello, everyone. Welcome to this edition of What 00:00:04.830 --> 00:00:08.390 in the World is Dyscalculia? I'm your host for 00:00:08.390 --> 00:00:11.810 the podcast, Dr. Honora Wall, and What in the 00:00:11.810 --> 00:00:15.410 World is Dyscalculia is produced and distributed 00:00:15.410 --> 00:00:19.289 by Educalc Learning. You can visit EducalcLearning 00:00:19.289 --> 00:00:22.949 .com for lots of free information, services, 00:00:23.210 --> 00:00:26.730 training, and even online math classes, both 00:00:26.730 --> 00:00:31.129 for teachers and for students who want to learn 00:00:31.129 --> 00:00:35.509 more or master math while they have dyscalculia. 00:00:36.390 --> 00:00:41.289 You can also visit the d -t -r -i dot org, t 00:00:41.289 --> 00:00:46.409 -h -e -d -t -r -i dot org. That's the Dyscalculia 00:00:46.409 --> 00:00:49.149 Training and Research Institute, a non -profit 00:00:49.149 --> 00:00:53.270 organization that has the mission of changing 00:00:53.270 --> 00:00:56.310 the lived experience of people with the math 00:00:56.310 --> 00:01:00.950 learning disability, dyscalculia. So enough of 00:01:00.950 --> 00:01:04.590 that. Let's get into the podcast. I want to talk 00:01:04.590 --> 00:01:08.969 to you today about two research articles that 00:01:08.969 --> 00:01:12.349 I was reading recently and had some interesting 00:01:12.349 --> 00:01:15.849 findings. If you've been listening to the podcast 00:01:15.849 --> 00:01:19.049 for a while, you know that we need more research 00:01:19.049 --> 00:01:22.230 on dyscalculia. And there's a lot more out there 00:01:22.230 --> 00:01:27.590 for dyslexia, autism, ADHD, not so much on math 00:01:27.590 --> 00:01:31.209 or dysgraphia, the writing specific learning 00:01:31.209 --> 00:01:36.450 disorder, dyspraxia, the physical space learning 00:01:36.450 --> 00:01:39.829 disorder. So we need more, but let's talk about 00:01:39.829 --> 00:01:41.829 what's already out there because there is quite 00:01:41.829 --> 00:01:46.310 a bit. One type of research that's very common 00:01:46.310 --> 00:01:50.040 right now is what we call a meta -analysis and 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:52.780 what that means is that researchers found all 00:01:52.780 --> 00:01:55.939 the articles they possibly could that focused 00:01:55.939 --> 00:01:59.379 on certain inclusion terms, whatever the researcher 00:01:59.379 --> 00:02:02.180 was trying to look for, and gathered all of the 00:02:02.180 --> 00:02:07.920 information together. If you read a meta -analysis, 00:02:08.580 --> 00:02:11.659 you're going to find that they describe where 00:02:11.659 --> 00:02:15.400 the articles came from, how they decided which 00:02:15.400 --> 00:02:19.039 articles to include or not, And for each of those 00:02:19.039 --> 00:02:22.500 articles, what kind of study was done, how it 00:02:22.500 --> 00:02:25.520 was set up, and what the results were. So a meta 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:28.120 -analysis is a great way to kind of get an overview, 00:02:28.360 --> 00:02:32.680 that bird's eye view of what's happening around 00:02:32.680 --> 00:02:36.800 a situation. So I found two that I wanted to 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:39.879 talk with you about today. One is a meta -analysis 00:02:39.879 --> 00:02:44.400 from 2023. that came from some researchers in 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:47.219 Indonesia. And that's very common. A lot of research 00:02:47.219 --> 00:02:50.020 on dyscalculia is coming from other countries 00:02:50.020 --> 00:02:52.900 outside of the United States. We do have some 00:02:52.900 --> 00:02:56.199 great researchers here in the U .S., including 00:02:56.199 --> 00:02:59.120 the researchers involved in the second meta -analysis, 00:02:59.159 --> 00:03:04.139 which was published in 2015, led by a team of 00:03:04.139 --> 00:03:07.930 researchers at University of Florida. specifically 00:03:07.930 --> 00:03:10.710 Dr. John Tay Myers who is now at Georgia State 00:03:10.710 --> 00:03:14.509 University and does a lot of work in the United 00:03:14.509 --> 00:03:18.349 States researching dyscalculia. So we do have 00:03:18.349 --> 00:03:21.830 some local people as well. But let's talk about 00:03:21.830 --> 00:03:25.289 both of these articles and see what they came 00:03:25.289 --> 00:03:29.389 up with. So the meta -analysis that came from 00:03:29.389 --> 00:03:34.569 Indonesia included 13 studies. research studies 00:03:34.569 --> 00:03:38.610 that looked at learning aids for children with 00:03:38.610 --> 00:03:42.469 dyscalculia. Some of the names were not familiar 00:03:42.469 --> 00:03:45.650 out of those 13 studies some were like Brian 00:03:45.650 --> 00:03:48.310 Butterworth and Laura Lard and so we do have 00:03:48.310 --> 00:03:51.389 some key players in the field of dyscalculia. 00:03:51.729 --> 00:03:53.509 That's important if you're talking to someone 00:03:53.509 --> 00:03:56.900 about getting training. on dyscalculia or if 00:03:56.900 --> 00:03:59.599 they say they're an expert. I want you to listen 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:02.120 to the researchers they talk about and make sure 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:04.900 they're using names that you've heard before. 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:11.879 Dr. Myers, Dr. Ansari, Dr. Butterworth, Dr. Mizoko. 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:15.240 There's quite a few names that come up quite 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:18.500 a bit. All right, back to the meta -analysis 00:04:18.500 --> 00:04:20.819 out of Indonesia. What I found really interesting 00:04:20.819 --> 00:04:25.240 with their 13 studies is that only one was quantitative 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:29.139 looking at a measurable statistical difference 00:04:29.139 --> 00:04:33.959 in performance, and 12 were qualitative looking 00:04:33.959 --> 00:04:38.439 at personal feelings, experiences, and interpretations. 00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:42.040 Now both of these are completely valid forms 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:45.990 of research, but When we're looking at schools 00:04:45.990 --> 00:04:48.649 and we're talking to educators who need research 00:04:48.649 --> 00:04:54.290 -based practices, we need more quantitative results. 00:04:55.310 --> 00:04:58.529 Because qualitative is important, but that's 00:04:58.529 --> 00:05:00.870 more about how someone feels about an experience 00:05:00.870 --> 00:05:04.449 or what their common experiences were. And we 00:05:04.449 --> 00:05:09.970 look for shared experiences. Quantitative shows 00:05:09.970 --> 00:05:13.740 a difference in some kind of performance. or 00:05:13.740 --> 00:05:15.420 a lack of difference, and then we know whether 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:18.459 or not something is effective or not for a certain 00:05:18.459 --> 00:05:21.639 group of students. So we really need more of 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:26.319 that. The researchers from the United States 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:30.120 that was published through University of Florida, 00:05:30.819 --> 00:05:33.860 they did not really break down how many studies 00:05:33.860 --> 00:05:36.800 were quantitative versus qualitative. They included 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:40.939 15. different studies and their meta -analysis 00:05:40.939 --> 00:05:44.519 did a much more in -depth look at the methodology 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:49.579 and results of the individual research articles 00:05:49.579 --> 00:05:52.879 included. The meta -analysis out of Indonesia 00:05:52.879 --> 00:05:56.000 is a little more broad -based and that could 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:59.680 just be differences in research style, in the 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:04.560 goals of the research study, or maybe it's the 00:06:04.560 --> 00:06:08.480 commonly viewed method of doing interpretive 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:12.300 analysis in different countries. So all of these 00:06:12.300 --> 00:06:16.459 reasons determine what kind of research you're 00:06:16.459 --> 00:06:19.139 reading and I point that out because I know not 00:06:19.139 --> 00:06:21.579 everyone listening is a researcher or enjoys 00:06:21.579 --> 00:06:24.319 going to Google Scholar and reading research 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:26.879 articles. They can be a little dry and a lot 00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:29.920 of people don't like the statistics. So when 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:35.110 I bring you a review of articles And I hate to 00:06:35.110 --> 00:06:38.089 even say review. I'm not here to say if anyone's 00:06:38.089 --> 00:06:40.110 research was good, bad, or indifferent. I'm just 00:06:40.110 --> 00:06:43.069 here to bring you their results. I want you to 00:06:43.069 --> 00:06:45.610 know why studies are written the way they are 00:06:45.610 --> 00:06:48.550 and how research is conducted. Until you've really 00:06:48.550 --> 00:06:51.189 gone through the process of running your own 00:06:51.189 --> 00:06:55.490 research study and doing a dissertation or publishing 00:06:55.490 --> 00:06:59.990 a study somewhere else, it's hard to really understand 00:06:59.990 --> 00:07:04.529 the intricacies and complexities of a research 00:07:04.529 --> 00:07:07.709 study. I know we're all looking for research 00:07:07.709 --> 00:07:12.189 -based practices and evidence -based practices. 00:07:12.850 --> 00:07:17.009 It can be hard to find because we're very precise 00:07:17.009 --> 00:07:19.329 with how research is done. That's how we know 00:07:19.329 --> 00:07:24.089 it's something we can trust. Okay, so now you 00:07:24.089 --> 00:07:27.430 know why these two meta -analysis articles exist 00:07:27.430 --> 00:07:30.209 and their similarities and differences. Let's 00:07:30.209 --> 00:07:33.839 talk about what they found when they looked at 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:38.459 this grand total of 28 different research studies 00:07:38.459 --> 00:07:42.699 on dyscalculia. A lot of it is stuff that we've 00:07:42.699 --> 00:07:44.959 already talked about in these podcasts or you 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:48.519 can find on either of my websites if you're looking 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:51.579 for information. But these are some of the studies 00:07:51.579 --> 00:07:54.319 that really support what we're talking about. 00:07:55.300 --> 00:08:00.060 First of all, increased metacognition. Very helpful. 00:08:00.410 --> 00:08:03.850 for students who have the math learning disability. 00:08:04.810 --> 00:08:07.189 Metacognition means thinking about what you're 00:08:07.189 --> 00:08:11.189 thinking about. And there's a lot involved in 00:08:11.189 --> 00:08:15.509 pausing, taking a moment to look at a math problem 00:08:15.509 --> 00:08:19.529 and say, what is happening here? How am I going 00:08:19.529 --> 00:08:21.509 to solve this? What's a good plan of action? 00:08:22.269 --> 00:08:26.069 What do I need to solve this? And do I have those 00:08:26.069 --> 00:08:29.209 things readily available? Depending on grade 00:08:29.209 --> 00:08:32.139 level, That could be any of the manipulatives 00:08:32.139 --> 00:08:35.220 that we usually talk about. If you're solving 00:08:35.220 --> 00:08:38.899 a problem that's involving addition and subtraction, 00:08:39.220 --> 00:08:41.059 probably going to be helpful to have a number 00:08:41.059 --> 00:08:44.139 line or a one to one hundreds chart. If you are 00:08:44.139 --> 00:08:46.440 doing a longer problem with a lot of borrowing 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:49.840 or carrying, then you might want to do step by 00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:52.740 step with a calculator. If you're looking at 00:08:52.740 --> 00:08:55.259 a problem that involves multiplying and dividing, 00:08:55.639 --> 00:08:59.860 especially with decimals or some of those larger 00:08:59.860 --> 00:09:03.399 multi -digit problems, then a multiplication 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:05.740 list and or a calculator are going to be very, 00:09:05.740 --> 00:09:09.340 very helpful. If you are doing a problem that 00:09:09.340 --> 00:09:13.460 involves graphing in later stages of math or 00:09:13.460 --> 00:09:16.179 you're solving for roots or you're factoring, 00:09:16.620 --> 00:09:21.210 then having notes that compile all of our perfect 00:09:21.210 --> 00:09:24.230 squares, for example, or something that's color 00:09:24.230 --> 00:09:27.210 -coded to show the y -intercept versus the slope 00:09:27.210 --> 00:09:30.750 and where it is in the equation correlated to 00:09:30.750 --> 00:09:33.649 where it is on the graph. Those external tools 00:09:33.649 --> 00:09:37.070 can trigger memory, can help you refine your 00:09:37.070 --> 00:09:39.929 answer. Those are things you would need while 00:09:39.929 --> 00:09:44.750 you're solving a problem. So that's part of metacognition, 00:09:44.909 --> 00:09:47.129 making sure you know which tools are appropriate 00:09:47.129 --> 00:09:50.940 for the task. and then you have them handy. For 00:09:50.940 --> 00:09:53.480 students with dyscalculia, we definitely want 00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:56.700 them to have those same tools available during 00:09:56.700 --> 00:10:00.559 classwork, during homework, and during assessments 00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:04.159 because the problems of the parietal lobe losing 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:06.799 math information over time, it's not like that 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:09.740 only happens Monday through Thursday and on Friday 00:10:09.740 --> 00:10:12.659 quiz day your parietal lobe suddenly works perfectly. 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:16.919 That's not true. So we want to keep those accommodations. 00:10:17.340 --> 00:10:21.820 during assessments. And we want to use metacognition 00:10:21.820 --> 00:10:26.460 and teach students how to use metacognition strategies. 00:10:26.860 --> 00:10:29.740 So that's one thing. Another thing that came 00:10:29.740 --> 00:10:34.720 up was explicit instruction. We talk a lot about 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:39.210 that in the podcast. I use a lot of explicit 00:10:39.210 --> 00:10:42.509 instruction in the math courses I designed for 00:10:42.509 --> 00:10:44.950 students with dyscalculia and what we mean by 00:10:44.950 --> 00:10:48.269 explicit instruction is that you just say what's 00:10:48.269 --> 00:10:51.029 going on you just tell people exactly what's 00:10:51.029 --> 00:10:53.330 happening and what they need to do there's no 00:10:53.330 --> 00:10:57.129 mystery it's just math we don't need to make 00:10:57.129 --> 00:10:59.750 it a mystery it's pretty straightforward how 00:10:59.750 --> 00:11:02.710 you solve a problem and we tell students exactly 00:11:02.710 --> 00:11:05.820 how we want them to solve a problem We let them 00:11:05.820 --> 00:11:08.919 know exactly where they're going wrong and what 00:11:08.919 --> 00:11:12.539 we need them to do in order to be right. And 00:11:12.539 --> 00:11:15.039 a lot of the research studies listed in these 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:17.860 meta -analysis did talk about that piece of that 00:11:17.860 --> 00:11:22.019 immediate feedback. The idea of explicit and 00:11:22.019 --> 00:11:24.659 embedded instruction, which is a term that came 00:11:24.659 --> 00:11:29.659 up quite a bit in the UF meta -analysis. You 00:11:29.659 --> 00:11:33.440 might see it in research studies labeled as EAI. 00:11:33.529 --> 00:11:36.490 explicit and embedded instruction. And what that 00:11:36.490 --> 00:11:38.649 really means, teachers, you're already doing 00:11:38.649 --> 00:11:40.789 it. It means that you take advantage of those 00:11:40.789 --> 00:11:42.669 teaching moments, that you're really plugged 00:11:42.669 --> 00:11:46.289 in with your student. And when you see that they're 00:11:46.289 --> 00:11:49.990 solving something incorrectly, you tell them, 00:11:50.250 --> 00:11:53.490 you step in right then, and you show them exactly 00:11:53.490 --> 00:11:55.970 what they should be doing differently. So it 00:11:55.970 --> 00:11:59.830 combines using a teaching moment, using immediate 00:11:59.830 --> 00:12:04.220 feedback, using explicit instruction. that makes 00:12:04.220 --> 00:12:07.899 a measurable difference in the academic performance 00:12:07.899 --> 00:12:13.159 of a person who has dyscalculia. Some of the 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:15.139 other things that came out of these two studies 00:12:15.139 --> 00:12:20.139 were that sometimes a software program or using 00:12:20.139 --> 00:12:25.019 an abacus, just a really specific kind of manipulative, 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:30.220 or using programs that increase working memory, 00:12:30.460 --> 00:12:33.779 all of those things can give some sort of improvement 00:12:33.779 --> 00:12:38.179 either in motivation, self -confidence, or performance. 00:12:40.240 --> 00:12:42.879 And we know that those things are true because 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:46.519 they come up in different research studies. We 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:49.059 also know they're true because we use them in 00:12:49.059 --> 00:12:52.320 the classroom already. So really, what I want 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:55.120 you doing for students with dyscalculia is taking 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:59.960 what you're doing And do it more. Do it consistently. 00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:04.659 Do it constantly. Do it with fidelity. Don't 00:13:04.659 --> 00:13:07.440 just tell students that the manipulatives are 00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:10.059 available. Require that they use it and show 00:13:10.059 --> 00:13:12.919 you how they use it, and then you step in, just 00:13:12.919 --> 00:13:15.179 like Vygotsky told us, with the more knowledgeable 00:13:15.179 --> 00:13:17.600 other. The best way to learn is to have someone 00:13:17.600 --> 00:13:20.159 who has a better understanding than you helping 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:23.620 you out, and then you discuss it. That makes 00:13:23.620 --> 00:13:27.000 a huge, huge difference. I would love to see 00:13:27.000 --> 00:13:31.080 a qualitative study that talked about a student's 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:34.220 feeling of self -worth and engagement and connection 00:13:34.220 --> 00:13:39.899 after having intervention that really utilize 00:13:39.899 --> 00:13:44.360 those skills. Again as teachers we know that 00:13:44.360 --> 00:13:48.809 we have a much better academic performance and 00:13:48.809 --> 00:13:50.970 achievement with students. When we have that 00:13:50.970 --> 00:13:52.850 connection, we know that we want to build that 00:13:52.850 --> 00:13:55.389 with our students. We're already trying to do 00:13:55.389 --> 00:13:58.529 that with students in our classrooms because 00:13:58.529 --> 00:14:01.629 we know it's important. Oh, and also it's effective. 00:14:01.870 --> 00:14:03.929 But we didn't get into teaching just because 00:14:03.929 --> 00:14:06.470 it's a little factory and we're trying to push 00:14:06.470 --> 00:14:09.590 out students who hit academic achievement goals. 00:14:09.690 --> 00:14:13.690 We got into teaching because we really like interacting 00:14:13.690 --> 00:14:18.330 and passing along knowledge. to tiny people, 00:14:19.129 --> 00:14:21.909 to children. If you're in adult ed or if you're 00:14:21.909 --> 00:14:24.750 working in the higher ed setting, you like imparting 00:14:24.750 --> 00:14:28.570 knowledge to a peer group, but we really like 00:14:28.570 --> 00:14:33.730 this interaction. That is a key part of working 00:14:33.730 --> 00:14:35.669 with students who have dyscalculia. They have 00:14:35.669 --> 00:14:39.129 to know you're on their side, and they have to 00:14:39.129 --> 00:14:41.309 know that you recognize they're already working 00:14:41.309 --> 00:14:43.919 really hard. and they have to know that you're 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:48.100 going to help them find the best method for them 00:14:48.100 --> 00:14:53.679 so that they can really master math. So, to wrap 00:14:53.679 --> 00:14:56.779 all of that up, if you're looking for some research 00:14:56.779 --> 00:15:00.519 -based practices and some evidence -based strategies, 00:15:01.659 --> 00:15:05.360 this is a great case for things you already know 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:08.799 how to do. Use your teaching moments, use explicit 00:15:08.799 --> 00:15:13.769 instruction, use metacognition, And then try 00:15:13.769 --> 00:15:17.009 out different software or manipulatives and see 00:15:17.009 --> 00:15:19.190 what works best for your students, depending 00:15:19.190 --> 00:15:22.169 on the grade level and topic. And keep those 00:15:22.169 --> 00:15:25.690 things during class time, during homework time, 00:15:26.009 --> 00:15:29.549 during math intervention time, and during assessment 00:15:29.549 --> 00:15:32.389 time. That's how we're really going to make a 00:15:32.389 --> 00:15:35.669 change. If you are looking for either of these 00:15:35.669 --> 00:15:39.070 articles, I will try to get them up on the websites. 00:15:39.549 --> 00:15:43.029 so that we have a bank of articles and you can 00:15:43.029 --> 00:15:45.110 go read this information for yourself. I think 00:15:45.110 --> 00:15:50.129 that's always exciting to read the original source 00:15:50.129 --> 00:15:53.669 and of course these have lengthy references that 00:15:53.669 --> 00:15:56.289 tell you the studies they used and other people 00:15:56.289 --> 00:15:58.610 they reference. So you can go down the rabbit 00:15:58.610 --> 00:16:03.090 hole of finding research on dyscalculia and getting 00:16:03.090 --> 00:16:05.669 more knowledge for yourself. If you're not into 00:16:05.669 --> 00:16:07.909 reading a bunch of research studies, totally 00:16:07.909 --> 00:16:10.210 get it. I'll be bringing more of them to you 00:16:10.210 --> 00:16:14.029 in the podcast, and one of the goals for the 00:16:14.029 --> 00:16:18.389 second half of 2025, as we finish this school 00:16:18.389 --> 00:16:20.769 year and start moving into the next one, is to 00:16:20.769 --> 00:16:24.370 have more blog posts that really dive into the 00:16:24.370 --> 00:16:26.730 research. That way, when you're talking to colleagues, 00:16:27.370 --> 00:16:32.049 parents, and other administrators, you have some 00:16:32.049 --> 00:16:36.049 original sources that you can cite in those conversations. 00:16:37.470 --> 00:16:41.029 So thank you for listening to this episode of 00:16:41.029 --> 00:16:43.669 what in the world is dyscalculia. If you have 00:16:43.669 --> 00:16:46.990 any questions or comments about these articles 00:16:46.990 --> 00:16:49.610 or other research you'd like to know is it out 00:16:49.610 --> 00:16:52.470 there, I'll be happy to go see what I can find 00:16:52.470 --> 00:16:55.450 and put the information into future episodes. 00:16:56.429 --> 00:16:58.190 Make sure you're checking out the website so 00:16:58.190 --> 00:17:01.350 you can stay up to date with the most current 00:17:01.350 --> 00:17:05.390 dyscalculia information and You can also find 00:17:05.390 --> 00:17:09.529 me on social media. We have a great teacher support 00:17:09.529 --> 00:17:14.369 page on Facebook. That's a public group. You 00:17:14.369 --> 00:17:18.069 can find Educalc Learning on Facebook. You can 00:17:18.069 --> 00:17:21.990 find me on Instagram. We have a YouTube channel, 00:17:22.390 --> 00:17:25.789 Honora Wall, that has a lot of different interviews 00:17:25.789 --> 00:17:28.950 and our social media reels and these podcast 00:17:28.950 --> 00:17:32.390 episodes. So plenty of ways of getting information 00:17:32.390 --> 00:17:35.200 to you. If you are a teacher, you might want 00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:38.220 to look into our weekly workshops. There's information 00:17:38.220 --> 00:17:42.599 about that on educalclearning .com and you might 00:17:42.599 --> 00:17:45.119 want to look into our online math classes for 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:47.339 students who have dyscalculia. These are great 00:17:47.339 --> 00:17:50.240 for homeschool families and also they're being 00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:55.160 used with great success in schools around the 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:59.000 country and in tutoring centers. So lots of great 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:02.420 options to support both teachers and students 00:18:02.899 --> 00:18:05.339 who want to know more about the math learning 00:18:05.339 --> 00:18:09.200 disability. I'm Dr. Hanora Wall. Thank you for 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:11.140 listening to What in the World is Dyscalculia, 00:18:11.339 --> 00:18:12.779 and we'll see you again soon.