1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,200 Hello everyone, welcome to What in the World is Dyscalculia, the podcast that is all about 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,440 the math learning disability. 3 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:16,680 I'm Dr. Honora Wall and I am your host for the podcast presented by EducalcLearning 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:18,180 at educalclearning.com. 5 00:00:18,180 --> 00:00:24,240 We train teachers in Dyscalculia and how to best support students who have the math learning 6 00:00:24,240 --> 00:00:33,400 disability and we also have courses for students who would like to master math and overcome 7 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,120 their specific learning disorders. 8 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,960 You can also find information about Dyscalculia and other types of neurodivergence at the 9 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:47,160 Dyscalculia Training and Research Institute, thedtri.org. 10 00:00:47,160 --> 00:00:48,920 Lots of free stuff out there. 11 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:54,680 Grab some PDFs, grab some fact sheets, share them with colleagues, teachers, family and 12 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:56,480 friends. 13 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,960 Let's raise awareness of Dyscalculia together. 14 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:05,480 And today in this episode I want to talk about what might be an unpopular opinion, especially 15 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:11,960 in these times of project based learning and conceptual understanding and deepening the 16 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:16,400 connection between math and our math students. 17 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,800 So here's my unpopular opinion. 18 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,720 I could care less if a student likes math or not. 19 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:23,720 That's not my job. 20 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,920 I'm not a marketing director for math. 21 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:31,880 I'm not running a marketing campaign to convince people of math. 22 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:33,240 That's not what I'm here for. 23 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,400 I'm here to help people learn how to do it. 24 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,720 I'm here to make sure they graduate high school. 25 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,760 I'm here to make sure they get into and graduate college. 26 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:45,680 I'm here to make sure they feel empowered to make financial decisions within their families 27 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:47,160 and for themselves. 28 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:52,480 And I'm here to make sure they are no longer held back by other people's misinterpretation 29 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:57,440 of their capabilities. 30 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:00,720 But if they like math, that's up to them. 31 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,720 I have nothing to do with that. 32 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,520 Those are personal opinions. 33 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:10,120 And I think that's a really important part of this conversation. 34 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:16,920 I'm about to present at a conference and I love going to these conferences and talking 35 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:18,680 to people about neurodivergence. 36 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:23,160 But I was looking at some of the other sessions on the schedule. 37 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,880 I like to attend as many sessions as possible. 38 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,080 I consider myself a lifelong learner and I want to know what people have to say about 39 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:31,760 different topics. 40 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:35,600 Sometimes I'll go to a session on something I know a lot about because I want to know 41 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:37,600 what other people are saying. 42 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:42,360 And sometimes I'll go to a session on something I have no idea what it's about and it doesn't 43 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,680 really relate to my work at all because it's still enriching and it's still interesting 44 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,680 and it brings something to my day. 45 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:53,880 And that's a great thing about these conferences. 46 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,560 If you're an educator, get to as many of these as you can. 47 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,560 They're never going to be a waste of time. 48 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:05,680 But I did notice and I've seen this trend for a while that there are a lot of sessions 49 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:11,200 on how to make math come alive or use some real world examples to really engage your 50 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:18,920 students and how to build the understanding of the big one these days is why we divide 51 00:03:18,920 --> 00:03:20,880 fractions the way we do. 52 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:21,880 And those are all fine. 53 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,240 I'm not saying that we should not promote those. 54 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,840 We should offer everything we possibly can to our students that could help. 55 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:34,400 Our job is to present options and to teach people how to do it. 56 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:39,560 But personally, I just want them to know how to do it and let them open future doors for 57 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:40,560 themselves. 58 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:44,440 They don't have to enjoy math in order to be successful at it. 59 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:50,200 And they don't have to like math in order to be what will we call them a math student, 60 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,080 a mathematician. 61 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,520 Maybe they really like pattern recognition and prediction. 62 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,560 Maybe they really like visual spatial issues. 63 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:03,320 Maybe they really like the way math intersects with music or art or nature or maybe they 64 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,880 just really like crunching numbers. 65 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,780 All of those are perfectly acceptable. 66 00:04:08,780 --> 00:04:13,520 Even the people who don't like math at all that is still perfectly acceptable. 67 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,000 You're still allowed to be a successful human being. 68 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:21,080 You're still allowed to make academic achievements. 69 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:26,480 And you're still allowed to go into the career of your choice, not the ones that were offered 70 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:34,520 to you as limited options because of not being able to succeed in a traditional math class. 71 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:38,480 Your personal opinion is your personal opinion. 72 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,080 And that could be about math or about anything else. 73 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:44,120 And here's another reason why I say that. 74 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:49,320 When I first shoveled snow, I was 49 years old. 75 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,720 I grew up in the south, never had any interaction with snow. 76 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,160 And in the beginning I really did not like it. 77 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:04,320 Then I bought a house in the extreme north and had a yard and a sidewalk to maintain. 78 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:09,600 And I really had to shovel snow and I learned more about how to do it effectively and properly. 79 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:10,880 Now I really enjoy it. 80 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,320 I like it a lot more than mowing the lawn and I certainly like it more than dealing with 81 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,520 the leaves in the fall. 82 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,680 So I've grown to really enjoy shoveling snow. 83 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,080 That was my choice and my opinion. 84 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:30,200 Another story, when I first decided to cut out dairy for my diet, I did it for health 85 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:36,600 reasons and because I knew it was going to get me health benefits that I wanted for myself. 86 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,480 So I will eat the fake cheese. 87 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:42,240 I'm never going to like the fake cheese. 88 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:47,440 And you can sit me down and explain to me why non-dairy cheese is a better alternative, 89 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,480 all the great things it's going to do for me, how great it is for the environment or 90 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,360 for animals that don't have to be milked. 91 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:55,800 Anything that you want to say. 92 00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,440 Go right ahead, I'm not going to like fake cheese. 93 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:06,120 I will politely listen because I like to be a respectful person. 94 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:07,440 But that's my opinion. 95 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,520 And I'm going to save my cheat days for my trips to Wisconsin and I'm going to go big 96 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,680 or go home with the real cheese. 97 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:19,840 I'll keep the non-dairy cheese but I'm not going to like it. 98 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:20,840 And that's okay. 99 00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:26,720 I'm going to be a healthy person whether or not I really enjoy fake cheese. 100 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:31,680 I'm allowed to be a good homeowner and a good member of my community. 101 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:35,640 Whether or not I like maintaining my yard or the different aspects of maintaining my 102 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:36,640 yard. 103 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,920 I really feel this is the same thing with math. 104 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,560 People are allowed to not like it. 105 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:44,800 I didn't like it for a very long time. 106 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,360 Now I really love it. 107 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:51,360 If I can show people that bridge, great, that's wonderful. 108 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,680 If I can help them at least dislike it less, great, that's wonderful. 109 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:02,640 If I can let them see how they can master it or at least pass it and maintain whatever 110 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:08,880 personal opinion they have about math as a topic, that's great and wonderful too. 111 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:16,280 My job is to give knowledge and not to sway public opinion or perception. 112 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:22,440 And I think that we do a disservice when we try to force that love of something whether 113 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:31,120 it's math or reading or science or art or music or history or anything else. 114 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:35,120 Swaying public opinion is not what we get paid to do. 115 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:41,040 We get paid to make sure students have the exposure, the understanding and the knowledge 116 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:49,080 to maintain conversations, to recognize facts versus opinions, to explore the world they 117 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:55,480 live in and to master how to navigate this life successfully. 118 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,600 None of that involves personal opinion. 119 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:05,720 So at the end of this quick podcast today, what if your students don't like math? 120 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,640 Okay, so what? 121 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:12,480 You can still be effective at your job and they can still be effective students. 122 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:17,800 What if your school or district or state is really pushing project-based learning and 123 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,640 conceptual understanding or that's something that's very important to you? 124 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,960 Great, fantastic, keep doing that. 125 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:31,480 Also include the algorithms, the how you get it done so that all students have the ability 126 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:37,960 to succeed in your class regardless of their personal opinion in either direction about 127 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:38,960 math. 128 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:44,640 Let's take that emotional piece out of it and I think we'll be happier as teachers too. 129 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:52,200 We will get more out of a student who's successful regardless of their opinion. 130 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:57,720 Their opinion is really none of our business and I think that will also relieve some of 131 00:08:57,720 --> 00:08:58,720 the burnout. 132 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,560 We have so many things as teachers to try to impart this love of things that we love. 133 00:09:03,560 --> 00:09:07,040 That's perfectly normal and natural and that can be a great gift. 134 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:12,520 It can be wonderful for students to say, oh, I really like this person's passion for this 135 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:13,520 subject. 136 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:14,520 Why do they like it so much? 137 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:16,440 Let me learn some more about this. 138 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:21,600 So it's a great door opener but just don't close the door on the other people who might 139 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,160 have a different opinion. 140 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,600 How does this relate to dyscalculia? 141 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:35,120 Well a lot of students who have dyscalculia have years of negative experiences when it 142 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:41,280 comes to math and math classes and part of our job is going to be helping them overcome 143 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:47,680 that using social emotional learning principles and best practices and learning a lot about 144 00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:57,680 psychology, internal motivation, self esteem, self definition and trauma response. 145 00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:00,760 Now I'll save that for another podcast. 146 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:05,920 Most of us are not cut out to be psychologists or psychiatrists and we are not cut out to 147 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:10,720 really help people through any kind of trauma or anxieties. 148 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,600 I don't want you getting into that arena if it's not your skill set. 149 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,680 You'll definitely do more damage than benefit. 150 00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:24,600 But understanding those principles and understanding how trauma and anxiety and negative experiences 151 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:31,560 can impact a student's approach, point of view and attitude in your class, that can 152 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:33,320 be really helpful. 153 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:40,360 And understanding the importance of creating positive masterful experiences as a door opener 154 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,920 as a way to bring people into the math conversation. 155 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,880 That's really helpful. 156 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:51,840 And it's necessary if you're working with students who have dyscalculia, especially 157 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:58,240 the older they get because the more years of negative experiences they've had, we have 158 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,160 to address that piece. 159 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,040 Do we have to get them to become champions of math? 160 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,360 No, I don't think that we do. 161 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:12,360 But we can certainly help them get to a more positive place than the one they're in when 162 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,520 we first start working with them. 163 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:20,840 Definitely on the websites and in the podcast, I'll be doing some more talks about this. 164 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:26,080 Peace, the importance of recognizing and dealing with the trauma that can come from math classes, 165 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:27,960 is real and valid. 166 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:35,000 And the fear that a lot of people, especially adults, have about math, talking about math, 167 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,480 being exposed as a person who can't do math, all the things that go along with that, very 168 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:40,480 real and valid. 169 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:46,040 And if we're going to help people get past those things and feel confident about their 170 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,520 math abilities, we can't ignore it. 171 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,120 We're going to have to address it. 172 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,320 So we'll have more information about those topics coming soon. 173 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:59,040 If you have questions or comments about anything that we're talking about in the podcast, I 174 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:00,440 would love to hear them. 175 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:12,840 You can reach me at Honora at educalclearning.com or Honora at thedtri.org. 176 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:17,920 I look forward to having more conversations with you about the math learning disability. 177 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:33,640 Thank you for listening to What in the World is Dyscalculia, and we'll talk again soon.