1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,440 Hello and welcome to this episode of What in the World is Dyscal-COOL-ia or 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:11,120 Dyscalc-you-lia depending on where you put the accent. However you say it as long as 3 00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:16,760 you're talking about it, I'm happy. I'm Dr. Honora Wall. I'm the host of this 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:23,160 podcast which is put on and sponsored by Educalc Learning. You can visit 5 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:28,440 EducalcLearning.com for more information about Dyscalculia or about the 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:35,880 trainings, online math courses for students and our books and other resources 7 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:43,480 for supporting people with Dyscalculia. You can also visit theDTRI.org and 8 00:00:43,480 --> 00:00:50,560 find out more from our nonprofit website which does awareness and 9 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:57,000 information for people who want to know more about the math learning disability. 10 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:04,560 In this episode I want to talk a little bit about what is by far the most 11 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:12,760 frustrating part of working with people who have Dyscalculia. Never ends, never 12 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:18,240 goes away, absolute frustration every single time it occurs and it just 13 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:25,880 occurred yesterday but it occurs every week on a very regular basis. One day it 14 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:32,960 will not but for today it is just a constant irritation. So by far the 15 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:39,480 biggest frustration for working with people who have Dyscalculia is helping 16 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:45,360 them fight for their legally protected accommodations. The support that is 17 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:51,840 supposed to be given to people who have Dyscalculia in the K-12 system in higher 18 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:57,000 education, don't even get me started, in the workplace where it's completely 19 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:04,920 non-existent, it's just so frustrating. The amount of time that we spend 20 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:11,040 working on understanding rights, understanding the responsibilities of 21 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:18,240 the school or of providers or of the employer, understanding how to self- 22 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,960 advocate and I'm a big fan of self-advocating. We all need to know how to 23 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:28,280 speak clearly and describe our needs and describe our circumstances. No one is a 24 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:33,720 mind reader so we can't assume other people understand where and how and why 25 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:38,840 we're struggling. We have to make that clear. Big fan of self-advocacy, not a 26 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:45,600 problem at all, but having to self-advocate beyond explaining, hey I 27 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:50,320 happen to have a math learning disability and with this specific learning 28 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:54,680 disorder there are some accommodations that really will help me succeed. 29 00:02:54,680 --> 00:03:01,880 Anything beyond that statement I think is is unnecessary. That's a problem on the 30 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:10,480 part of the listener, not the part of the speaker. Now if you are one of those 31 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:16,720 listeners, if you are a teacher or a tutor or an administrator or a college 32 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:23,120 professor or college admissions advisor or an employer and you don't know much 33 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:26,960 about dyscalculia I have good news for you. There's tons of information, 34 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:31,120 well maybe not tons, but there is information out there and a lot of it is 35 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,800 on my websites that I already mentioned, educalclearning.com and 36 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:43,040 www.thedtri.org. You can reach out to me and there's a few other specialists 37 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:48,000 here in the US, there's plenty more in the UK, a few in Canada, so wherever you 38 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:54,080 are you can find some information and you can become knowledgeable and then you 39 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:58,360 will know how to best support people and they won't have to beg 40 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:03,280 and I won't have to spend so much time letting people know that they have a 41 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,840 wiring difference in their brain. They have a different way of thinking about 42 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:15,560 learning and remembering math and they have a weaker mental number line so 43 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,760 adding, subtracting, remembering the multiplication facts, those are big 44 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,760 stumbling blocks. Okay plenty of jobs in the world where you don't need to do 45 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:29,000 that, plenty of higher level math where you're required to use a calculator and 46 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:35,080 you're doing visual recognition and pattern recognition. So having to deal 47 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:39,320 with time, money, place, value, adding, decimals, multiplying and dividing 48 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:44,000 decimals, dealing with fractions, that one that goes away just about at the end 49 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,280 of elementary school beginning of middle school depending on which program 50 00:04:48,280 --> 00:04:55,160 your particular school is following. So those early barriers are going to remove 51 00:04:55,160 --> 00:05:00,120 themselves. For students who have dyscalculia by the time they get to 52 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,440 those barriers leaving on their own they're so disgruntled and beaten down 53 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,600 and sure that they're not ever going to be able to do math and they're sick and 54 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:13,880 tired of asking for help when the help doesn't actually make a difference that 55 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:19,880 they're not getting access to the higher level math courses they're perfectly 56 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:24,440 capable of succeeding in. That's a problem because now they don't have access to the 57 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:30,560 kind of colleges or any college or completing college and they really 58 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:37,360 should. That leads to limited work options. So we know from research that you 59 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:42,840 can tie future career earnings to early math experiences. That's a proven fact 60 00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:46,400 and if you have a math learning disability you are much more likely to 61 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:52,120 have lower future earnings. We know that from research and if you talk to anyone 62 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:58,840 who has a dyscalculia or other math struggles then this is a very common 63 00:05:58,840 --> 00:06:05,960 story. Now if there were a reason why a person could not have a certain job or 64 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:11,320 could not follow in a certain career or could not have a certain college major 65 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,960 and be successful. Okay that would be the reality and we would then deal with 66 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:19,280 the reality. But the reality is the biggest problem is usually the external 67 00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:24,000 barrier put in by someone else who just doesn't understand the disorder. So get 68 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,160 knowledgeable. If you are in the education field you need to be knowledgeable 69 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:33,440 about your field. You need to keep up. You need to be listening to podcasts not 70 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,920 only mine but follow other people too. You need to be in support groups on 71 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:43,920 Facebook or through different organizations. You need to go to some conferences. You 72 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:48,600 at least need to be in some Facebook groups or follow people on other social 73 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:54,680 media sites so that you are keeping up with what's going on. We love to talk 74 00:06:54,680 --> 00:07:00,320 about research-based best practices. Well a lot of us don't have time to go to 75 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:04,360 Google Scholar and find out that information. Totally get it. So go find 76 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:10,640 out who is disseminating that information. When I talk on the podcast or on a 77 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:17,960 blog post or even on TikTok I back up what I'm saying with peer reviewed 78 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:24,000 empirical research and I've been putting a lot of those links on theDTRI.org 79 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:28,040 or you can email me. I'm happy to send them to you or I give the names of the 80 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:32,720 researchers. You can go to Google Scholar and look them up that way as well. 81 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:38,640 There's a way to get the information and I really need more people to be actively 82 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:42,480 trying to get the information and share it. If you're listening to this podcast 83 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:48,640 and this is resonating with you forward it to someone. Send it to a teacher. Send 84 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:53,640 it to your principal. Send it to the guidance office. Send it to the 85 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:58,280 tutoring agency. Share it with the college admissions people or the student 86 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:04,280 services office. Share other resources as well. It does not all have to be me. 87 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:10,200 That would be exhausting. So let's all find resources and share them because 88 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:15,640 there's plenty of work to be done if you are a person who has dyscalculia. There's 89 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,000 a lot to learn about yourself as a learner. Your own strengths and weaknesses. 90 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:25,600 How you can get around the wiring issues. The weaker approximate numbers system in 91 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:31,000 your head. The weaker number sense that you might have. Setting up systems to 92 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:36,600 deal with elapsed time which can be problematic. And the extra work you're 93 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:43,040 already doing to study. I know that people with dyscalculia are working harder 94 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:49,920 than typically developing students because I work with both. So I see it and 95 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,920 I've been talking with families for both. Typically developing and neuro atypical 96 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:59,880 development. And there's a lot more work being done. Students with dyscalculia are 97 00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:06,240 putting in lots of extra hours. Lots of extra time. Lots of extra tears. So let's 98 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:12,200 not make it worse. By the way we design our assessments. The way we allow or 99 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:16,880 don't allow accommodations. The way we tell people whether or not their learning 100 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:22,080 disorder is real. Based on whether or not we've heard of it before. 101 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:28,240 Dyscalculia has been listed in the research since 1930s. It's not brand new. 102 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:34,880 It's not fake. It's not a made up thing. If it's brand new to you that's fine. We 103 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:39,200 don't know what we don't know but we can find out. And when you know better you 104 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:45,920 can do better. So get out there and learn what there is to know. The more 105 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:52,400 educators parents schools and the educational system remove these barriers 106 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:57,200 and start supporting people with dyscalculia the right way. The more we're 107 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:02,560 going to see a lot of success for this group of people. Not only students but 108 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:09,280 also adults. I'm going to be adding in more conversations about the adult 109 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:14,800 experience because that is a place where we are seriously lacking in research and 110 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:19,680 awareness. And dyscalculia is a lifelong condition. It's just a different way of 111 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:24,400 thinking. That's not going to change. And it doesn't need to change. Just needs to 112 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:30,640 be understood and addressed properly. The accommodations in elementary one to 113 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:37,360 one hundreds chart number lines multiplication lists at all times. Having a 114 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:42,640 reference sheet or vocabulary guide to keep track of things like area and 115 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:48,800 perimeter and volume and maybe graph paper to line up your problems vertically. 116 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:53,520 Extended time and teaching students how to use the extended time by the time we 117 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,440 get into late elementary and middle school instruction on how to use a 118 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,360 calculator and then being allowed to use the calculator at all times so that it 119 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:06,000 frees up mental energy to keep up with the rest of the lesson. Having worked 120 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:11,840 examples or some kind of guided notes during assessments to act as a memory 121 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,360 trigger and then the student can do the work on their own but given that memory 122 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,440 trigger at the very least begin the class by saying all right everybody 123 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:24,400 quick recap on what we did yesterday vocab steps vocab steps vocab steps 124 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:29,360 now let's get a little deeper. There you go now you've triggered the memory and 125 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:34,000 you've brought it back up for people. That's a great accommodation and it will 126 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,160 make a huge difference for your students. Moving into high school keeping 127 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:43,120 students doing grade level work with the understanding that they might have 128 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,480 foundation gaps we're going to address that they're going to need those 129 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,240 accommodations for all assessments including quizzes and tests that's what 130 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,840 I mean by assessments. If you're going to give an accommodation Monday through 131 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:58,160 Thursday and then not give it on Friday during the test the student is going to 132 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:02,320 have a problem based on your choices not on their 133 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,480 abilities. A lot of times our assessments end up 134 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:12,240 proving that there's a learning disorder but I'll save the assessment soapbox 135 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:18,400 for another day. I will say again let's get some awareness get some 136 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:23,040 understanding and get the right accommodations in place higher ed that's 137 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:27,040 a whole nother conversation because while student services 138 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,440 might know about dyscalculia or other specific learning disorders and 139 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:37,280 neurodiversity the math professors don't or they don't give accommodations in 140 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,320 their class they shuttle it off to student services 141 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,920 the professors in the science department might not. 142 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,440 So all of these other questions when you're looking at colleges 143 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:52,720 look at what kind of services they are willing to give and why they do it do 144 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,960 they understand the learning differences and what kind of 145 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:01,040 accommodations are right and important and then later having that 146 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,800 conversation in the workplace that'll be a big one. 147 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,480 So I guess one thing at a time for the new year you can only 148 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:13,920 do what you can do but if we all do our part and do a little bit 149 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:18,560 then this incredibly frustrating piece will get better 150 00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:24,080 for all of us. Thank you for listening to this podcast. 151 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,600 Please feel free to share it with someone who needs to hear about it. 152 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,880 If you are the person with dyscalculia please understand you are working 153 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,680 within a system that is growing and changing but needs a little more 154 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:39,760 knowledge about the situation and you do have some 155 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,600 rights and you can get support you just have to 156 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:48,080 keep asking and keep working on it. If you have any questions about what 157 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,800 I've said today or about dyscalculia in general please feel free to reach out. 158 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,560 You can find me on all sorts of social media platforms. 159 00:13:56,560 --> 00:14:01,840 You can also email me honora at educalclearning.com 160 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:10,960 that's H-O-N-O-R-A or hanora at the D-T-R-I dot org that stands for the 161 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:17,760 dyscalculia training and research institute. Visit the websites 162 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:23,600 get out there and talk to more people look up some research on your own 163 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,040 or start having more conversations. Let's get some 164 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:31,280 information out there. It's going to be a great year of change for people 165 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,680 with dyscalculia. Things are changing they're improving 166 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,680 this is a very exciting field to be in even though 167 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:44,720 I do have this frustration but I believe it will not continue to be 168 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,400 consistent. We're going to make changes for the better. 169 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:54,320 Thank you for being part of the journey. I'm Dr. Wall this is what in the world 170 00:14:54,320 --> 00:15:17,680 is dyscalculia and I'll see you next time.