1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,840 Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of What in the World is Dyscalculia. 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:15,040 I'm your host Dr. Honora Wall and this podcast is produced and sponsored by Educalc Learning. 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:25,800 You can find out more at educalclearning.com and be sure you visit www.thedtri.org also 4 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,920 to get more information about Dyscalculia. 5 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:32,800 And I want to talk about a research article today. 6 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:42,920 This was a research study conducted by Shaylev and Gross-Tsur titled Developmental Dyscalculia. 7 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:51,160 I'll be putting this on the DTRI.org website so you can read the full PDF and read the 8 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:56,600 full study for yourself if you're interested in research the way I am. 9 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,800 If you're not it might be a little dry so let me recap it for you. 10 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:08,080 Basically the study was looking at different research that's published about people with 11 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:14,700 Dyscalculia and what are some of the signs and symptoms and what do we see across the 12 00:01:14,700 --> 00:01:16,280 lifespan. 13 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:21,000 So if you've been listening to our podcast for a while this information will not surprise 14 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:26,560 you but if you're brand new it might be something that you don't know or you haven't heard before. 15 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:34,880 The first thing they talked about in the article is the fact that I've read this in many different 16 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:41,680 places if you've read anything about neuroscience or just math in general you know this to be 17 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,000 true already. 18 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,360 Reading is something we have to teach. 19 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:53,040 We are not born knowing how to read. 20 00:01:53,040 --> 00:01:59,480 and alphabets, those are things we create and then we teach each other how to use them. 21 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:05,480 So this is important because there is such a tendency for people to say oh it's the number 22 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:06,480 dyslexia. 23 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,560 No my friend it is not. 24 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,480 Please take that out of your vocabulary. 25 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:21,480 There's also a big movement for a lot of programs that are based in dyslexia research or reading 26 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,320 based programs. 27 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:30,560 Now on the one hand I think any program that is working for you your children your students 28 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:38,560 keep using it because if it works don't mess with it and if it is not working then there 29 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,640 are probably some reasons why. 30 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:45,060 You might be fixing the reading based issues. 31 00:02:45,060 --> 00:02:50,480 You might have a person who's comorbid more than one specific learning disorder or it 32 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:55,480 might just be that you're helping to clear things up and that's what's making the improvement. 33 00:02:55,480 --> 00:03:02,840 However if you look at fMRIs you look at the types of symptoms and you start to dig into 34 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:10,960 the causes you're going to see that dyscalculia is completely different from dyslexia. 35 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,960 Math is an intuitive natural process. 36 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:19,120 You wouldn't know it if you're in a K-12 system especially here in America. 37 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:25,480 You would be very surprised however all people all over the world from the dawn of time have 38 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:35,240 counted have organized have classified have separated things have dealt with quantity. 39 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:42,680 Even before we were using bartering systems or developing economies we were still counting 40 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:49,120 and even if you go to very remote tribes if you can still find some in the world today 41 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,040 we can still find people who count. 42 00:03:53,040 --> 00:04:01,680 A lot of times you'll find groups of tribal groups of people and then we've discovered 43 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:05,640 in the Amazon jungles things like this where there's not a lot of interaction with what 44 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:13,120 we like to call the developed world where we find people who are counting to one two three many 45 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:18,960 because above four it's rather collective and we didn't really need to differentiate 46 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:23,600 we're still counting we're still sorting and we're still using the idea of more and less 47 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:30,400 and the idea of grouping things that is a natural part of the human condition. 48 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:31,400 Why is this important? 49 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:38,800 Well when we're looking at a learning difference when we're looking at dyslexia versus dyscalculia 50 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:45,960 dyscalculia has different causes there's some kind of wiring or coding or maybe it's a blend 51 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,920 the research is still unclear because we need to do more studies but there's something different 52 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:58,440 that's interrupting this very natural human process and I think that makes a real big 53 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:05,480 difference in the types of interventions and accommodations that we use and our approach 54 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:10,800 can be a little more refined when we're talking about dyscalculia which is the math related 55 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:17,600 learning disability it is not number dyslexia although I know that is a popular term mostly 56 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:22,480 because so many people have heard of dyslexia so if you're speaking with someone who's never 57 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:29,880 heard of dyscalculia it can give a frame of reference and I totally get that but they 58 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:34,720 are very different issues. 59 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:41,360 So that was the first thing that really caught my eye in this research article and another 60 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:50,120 thing that this particular article focused on was the early elementary experience and 61 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:56,040 really going up to fifth and sixth grade this is where a lot of research has been done for 62 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:02,040 dyscalculia we need so much more for older students especially high school and adults 63 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:07,320 just really have a lack there and hopefully that will change soon but what we do know 64 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:13,320 is that when you look at the elementary experience up to about fifth or sixth grade you're seeing 65 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:23,720 students who are using ineffective or insufficient strategies for their counting and so adding, 66 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:29,200 subtracting, multiplying it's taking them forever they're still counting on their fingers 67 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:36,800 and that's embarrassing also the older student gets the more they try to hide those strategies 68 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:43,800 and that's one of the reasons the many reasons why I highly recommend you let students use 69 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:49,640 a 1 to 100's chart a multiplication list once you get into fifth grade start introducing 70 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:55,120 that calculator on occasion by your topic and then in middle and high school we have 71 00:06:55,120 --> 00:07:01,520 moved on to other things use the calculator use a list of all the common square roots 72 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:06,720 and cubed roots so people can refer to these outside sources that way they can keep up 73 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:11,360 with the rest of your lesson and that is what this research article really talked about 74 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:19,640 the problem with using insufficient strategies not being able to rely on memorization for 75 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:28,240 basic facts that takes up so much time it also takes up a ton of mental energy your 76 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:36,120 brain is exhausted so trying to keep up with the lesson trying to learn the new vocabulary 77 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:41,920 trying to focus on the difference between perimeter and area and when you use those formulas 78 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:47,720 understanding what a formula is and substituting digits for letters so you can work with a 79 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:53,720 formula don't even get me started on working backwards if you know the area and you have 80 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:59,640 to move backwards to the given side all of those other things that we want students to 81 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,960 focus on they're having a hard time holding that in short term memory and moving it into 82 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:09,200 long term memory and keeping up with what's going on because they're still trying to figure 83 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:18,320 out the adding and getting to the right answer so we see a lot of errors as students are 84 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,840 getting older we know they have some kind of issue we may or may not have a diagnosis 85 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:29,360 but we know that they don't have the memory that gives them a boost that's an important 86 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:34,680 thing to think about for students who do not have dyscalculia who are memorizing like the 87 00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:40,880 dickens and they've got tons of basic facts at their disposal their brain is using that 88 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:48,240 internal mental number line and those memorized facts as an internal tool but they're not 89 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:53,440 doing something super special or something super different and here's my analogy for 90 00:08:53,440 --> 00:09:00,040 that if a person needs to wear eyeglasses this is an external tool that helps them to 91 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:08,760 be able to see clearly when you can see clearly you're more likely to read completely and 92 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:15,080 without errors when you read fluently without errors you're more likely to have a better 93 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:20,560 reading comprehension so do you see where I'm going with this a person who does not wear 94 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:27,720 eyeglasses is still doing the same reading the same fluency work the same comprehension 95 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:33,080 but they have an internal system that's doing a lot of work for them and if a person is 96 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:38,520 near-sighted far-sighted a little older like me if I don't bring my readers out with me 97 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:45,280 I'm going to have a hard time we need an external tool to help that process once we have it 98 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:51,560 then we can read we can read fluently we can read with great comprehension so the accommodation 99 00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:58,560 can be the barrier or the thing that removes the barrier very important to keep that in 100 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:04,760 mind so for students with dyscalculia we're going to see those insufficient strategies 101 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:09,920 that are not helping them out but they should be doing grade level work these are students 102 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:15,160 who have average to above average IQs they're not behavior problems they need to be in a 103 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:21,520 gen ed classroom and they're perfectly capable of keeping up if they have the right accommodations 104 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:28,320 and since those counting strategies and the memorization tools are not as strong we need 105 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:33,600 to give them some help in that area when we don't we're going to see a lot of little 106 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,560 errors we're going to see that they're so close to having the right answer but it's 107 00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:44,360 a little off and we're going to see that the work of computation and performing those four 108 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:51,520 basic operations is so intense that these students are exhausted mentally by the time 109 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:57,160 we try to get to the vocabulary the concepts the higher level math problems we want them 110 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:05,200 to do so keep that in mind keep an eye on the classroom do people seem like they're 111 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:11,280 dropping off there they're losing pace they're getting frustrated easily there are two questions 112 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,560 behind because they haven't kept up with the numbers then you're going to see students 113 00:11:14,560 --> 00:11:19,280 really disengage and give up because they don't feel like they can get there from here part 114 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:26,520 of our job in the classroom is to help students get there from here and we can do that easily 115 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:31,360 with those external tools that again if you've been listening to the show you know I love 116 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:37,960 to talk about them one to one hundredth chart number lines multiplication lists later on 117 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:43,680 a calculator worked examples having some notes that make sense to the student and letting 118 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:48,520 them have that while they're taking their assessments the same way you would let your 119 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:53,880 students wear their eyeglasses when they take their assessments not really a big difference 120 00:11:53,880 --> 00:12:00,880 there okay so to wrap up the developmental dyscalculia article by Shay live in gross 121 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:09,520 sewer reading is a natural process for most people after they're taught how to do it but 122 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:16,360 they're not just born understanding any alphabet and how to read it math is a natural process 123 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:22,480 that's happening on its own counting sorting organizing more or less develops without any 124 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:30,080 prompting or instruction from us we use that basis to uncover the rest of the very interesting 125 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:36,640 things that we know about upper level math concepts so therefore since these are very 126 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:42,240 different things we do that come from very different places and involve different parts 127 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:50,200 of the brain we want to address issues with different interventions accommodations strategies 128 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:57,520 and support you're really going to see the worst of the dyscalculia impact in elementary 129 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:04,800 school and some things like that dyscalculia trifecta time money place value they can remain 130 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:10,240 a problem even into adulthood but you're going to find that other upper level math concepts 131 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:16,560 are much easier because now we're requiring calculators so upper level math gets to be 132 00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:24,000 much more accessible for students with dyscalculia well there's a lot more to say about the math 133 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,960 learning disability and we'll keep diving into it in our podcast throughout the year 134 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:34,400 if you have questions or comments please find me on social media you can find educalc 135 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:43,120 learning or the dyscalculia training and research institute on Facebook LinkedIn Tiktok here 136 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:57,800 on the podcast you can visit the websites www.educalclearning.com or www.thedtri.org and make sure you check 137 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:03,080 out our books you can get your copy of teaching students with dyscalculia in English or in 138 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:11,640 Spanish at your local bookstore through Amazon or on the website you can get your box of 139 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:16,400 the teachers dyscalculia toolbox that's out there there's some other books out there especially 140 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:23,440 like ah-ha! games for the brain for classroom activities and if you just have some questions 141 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:29,360 email me and I'm happy to get some information to you and help you support your students 142 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:43,040 I'm Dr. Honora Wall this is the what in the world is dyscalculia podcast thanks for listening.