1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,280
Hello and welcome back to another episode of what in the world is dyscalculia.

2
00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:14,040
Previously, known as what in the world is dyscalculia and some people have asked me to go

3
00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:16,240
back to the older pronunciation.

4
00:00:16,240 --> 00:00:18,120
It's easier on their ears.

5
00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:25,280
So if it's tomato tomato, data data, dyscalculia, dyscalculia, as long as we're

6
00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,880
talking about the math learning disability, I think we're all doing fine.

7
00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:34,360
This is Dr. Honora Wall, the host of our podcast.

8
00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:43,480
And this podcast is hosted and sponsored by educalclearning, which is my for-profit company

9
00:00:43,480 --> 00:00:49,880
with a full line of in-person and online training for teachers and educators, online

10
00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:56,120
math classes for students and adults who have dyscalculia.

11
00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,600
And I'm really happy to be talking with you today.

12
00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:06,840
I have a one event this week that led me to a couple of different thoughts that I wanted

13
00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:12,600
to bring up and discuss with you.

14
00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:21,480
The wrap-up, the synopsis of what happened is that I was in an online forum for people

15
00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:31,120
and families who are helping people with dyscalculia and a person posted saying they

16
00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:32,760
recently got this diagnosis.

17
00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:38,360
They were working with their case manager and they wanted to advocate for having the

18
00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:39,600
calculator at all times.

19
00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:46,360
They wanted to know what that wording was supposed to look like on a 504 or an IEP.

20
00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:55,040
And I responded and paraphrasing said that they could ask that case manager to ask students

21
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:59,040
to take off their glasses before they take a reading test.

22
00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:04,240
Would they ask a student who was on crutches to leave them at the door of the classroom?

23
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:12,200
No, for the same reason we don't limit calculator use for students with dyscalculia.

24
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:16,640
Well, of course, this was an online forum and I typed it and the person responded and

25
00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:23,240
to paraphrase their response said, I'm not looking to take that kind of an attitude.

26
00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,640
I just want to know how this is supposed to be worded so I can help my child.

27
00:02:27,640 --> 00:02:33,440
And I thought, oh my gosh, when we type our tone of voice does not come out and what

28
00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:38,960
I had typed the word choice made this sound very angry and combative.

29
00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:43,320
So that was the first thing I thought I would just bring up it was such a good reminder

30
00:02:43,320 --> 00:02:49,600
and I responded and thanked the person for reminding me that tone of voice is very important

31
00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,080
in getting our ideas across.

32
00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:58,320
And I expanded my thought which was really what I meant to say and this is what I think

33
00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:04,880
is useful for our audiences that when we're talking to people who are brand new to the

34
00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:09,240
math learning disability and they aren't sure about some of these accommodations and

35
00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:16,360
interventions using a metaphor or an analogy can be helpful.

36
00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:24,920
People are already used to supporting people who have things different from us, visible

37
00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:29,040
or invisible disabilities or differences.

38
00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,480
There are plenty of people in the world who do not wear glasses but they understand that

39
00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,480
if a person has glasses or crutches they're going to need a little extra assistance.

40
00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:43,480
So we're already used to supporting people in a number of circumstances whether or not those

41
00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,480
circumstances apply to us.

42
00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:52,480
And the same thing is true with dyscalculia whether or not a person has 

44
00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:04,48 
has heard of

45
00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:11,480
it or is familiar with it they can still provide the right accommodations and interventions.

46
00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:18,480
I will say if you are putting that into a text or an email or an online support group

47
00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:28,480
you can just expand your thoughts, watch your wording so that the tone comes through in an appropriate manner.

48
00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:30,480
That was my first thought.

49
00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:38,480
My second thought when I read this exchange I thought you know why do we feel a need to

50
00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:47,480
walk on egg shells when we're advocating for legally protected interventions and accommodations.

51
00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:52,480
They may have wanted to take a certain tone or take a certain attitude.

52
00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:57,480
Why as a parent would they not be allowed to do that?

53
00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:58,480
This is very common.

54
00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:03,480
I have a lot of parents I talk to who don't want to make waves, they're.

55
00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:08,480
Sometimes walking on egg shells, sometimes just making sure they're being supportive or

56
00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:13,480
helpful or nice to the school.

57
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:20,480
Sometimes it's because they're a teacher or a staff member at the school or in the district

58
00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,480
and they don't want to be known as the problem co-worker.

59
00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:32,480
Sometimes they have other children in the same school or school district and they don't want to be known as the problem family.

60
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:39,480
Sometimes they feel like they're the lone voice asking for these interventions and accommodations for their child

61
00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:45,480
and they don't want to be that problem parent single out their child for repercussions.

62
00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:50,480
I wish I could say the repercussions never happen.

63
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,480
But I believe we all know that is not true.

64
00:05:53,480 --> 00:06:02,480
There are times when people do think we're the problem family or the problem child or the problem parent

65
00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,480
and those repercussions come back on our students.

66
00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,480
So I completely understand where it is coming from.

67
00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:15,480
But I have to say what we're asking for when we ask for interventions and accommodations.

68
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,480
We're not asking for anything special.

69
00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:22,480
We're asking for things that are protected under federal law.

70
00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:29,480
These are just the requirements of providing an equitable education.

71
00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,480
And honestly they're not that difficult to do.

72
00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:45,480
Letting a student have the use of a calculator or multiplication list or worked examples or their notes under all circumstances including quizzes and tests.

73
00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,480
It's not that difficult.

74
00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,480
That's not a hard thing to provide.

75
00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:58,480
It might not be something an individual teacher wants to do because it doesn't meet their traditional ideas of what learning looks like.

76
00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:09,480
In that case I would use the metaphor to say, well, you know, it's kind of like going to a doctor who wants to put leeches on you.

77
00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:14,480
If you're sick, we know more about medicine now and we don't do that.

78
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,480
And we know more about education now and we know more about learning disability.

79
00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,480
So there are things we do know that we did not use to do before.

80
00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,480
And that's fine.

81
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:41,480
So other accommodations and interventions that we ask for having extended time, having a separate place to take a test without distractions, having some sort of prompt either through reference sheets or notes.

82
00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:46,480
These are not excessive things we're asking for.

83
00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,480
We're not putting teachers out when we ask for them.

84
00:07:49,480 --> 00:08:03,480
And it's very important that counselors and case managers and the person in your school who is handling the stuff that they understand that they need to require.

85
00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:08,480
They are required to offer these services.

86
00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:14,480
And if you need more information about those services or what's appropriate for discount.

87
00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:26,480
Please email me at educalclearning.com or visit educalclearning.com or thedtri.org.

88
00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:32,480
That's the name of my nonprofit, the dyscalculia training and research institute.

89
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,480
www.thedtri.org.

90
00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:47,480
That really brings me to my third thing I was thinking after reading this exchange. What the person was looking for was an example.

91
00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:56,480
What should an IEP or 504 look like for a student who has dyscalculia?

92
00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,480
And those are very hard to find.

93
00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:07,480
So that's a project that I'll be working on very soon, getting that information just out on the website.

94
00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:13,480
So that parents can have an example to take with them when they're having their meetings at schools.

95
00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:19,480
And just to give you some more information about how to use that language appropriately.

96
00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:27,480
I talk about that a little bit in my online training courses for teachers, but I think it is valid to have some examples out there that anyone can access it.

97
00:09:27,480 --> 00:09:31,480
Any time that's a need that should be met.

98
00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:38,480
If you have questions about what your IEP or 504 should look like, please let me know and I'll make sure to include them.

99
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:43,480
I definitely want to include what we need to do for dyscalculia

100
00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:48,480
Mostly it's having the access to those external resources.

101
00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:59,480
One to 100's chart or a multiplication list, not the chart, but the old fashion times tables.

102
00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,480
And a calculator use as we get into fifth grade and above.

103
00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:08,480
That's the biggest one that people seem to be unfamiliar with or struggle against providing.

104
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:15,480
There are some other ones that are really helpful for processing speed disorders, visual spatial issues or working memory issues.

105
00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,480
And those are all pretty common for students who have dyscalculia.

106
00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:26,480
So I think they can be handy to be included in an IEP or 504.

107
00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:37,480
Of course, if you're lucky enough to have a full neuroscience evaluation, then we can use that to really specify based on the results of that evaluation.

108
00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:43,480
What accommodations we need for processing speed or visual spatial or things like that.

109
00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:52,480
And I'm happy to have more of a conversation with your specific situation if you reach out to me on that.

110
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:59,480
So my three takeaways this week, three things that I thought about and an important lesson I was reminded of.

111
00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:06,480
One tone of voice over the written word is not always clear.

112
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,480
It doesn't always convey what we actually mean.

113
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:18,480
So it's always a good idea to sit back and reflect on what you're trying to get across and expand and clarify what you're trying to say.

114
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:24,480
Short and sweet does not work very well in the written communication.

115
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:32,480
And then my second thing, don't be afraid to advocate for your students or for yourself.

116
00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:40,480
The things that we ask for to support people with dyscalculia are federally protected accommodations and they're really not that difficult.

117
00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,480
It's not special treatment.

118
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:49,480
And people need to understand what the accommodations are and we have a right to ask for them.

119
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:57,480
And however, that form needs to take if you want to be nice and polite and not cause any waves that is one way to approach it.

120
00:11:57,480 --> 00:12:02,480
And if you sometimes get angry and you've just had enough, that is valid as well.

121
00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,480
And that's a normal human emotion.

122
00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:15,480
You can be angry about your child or yourself not getting the support you are supposed to be getting.

123
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:24,480
And then my third piece is that I'm making this pledge to you that I'm going to get those examples out there.

124
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:32,480
If you're finding examples of 504, IEP language and you have a resource to share, please share it with me.

125
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:36,480
And I'm happy to put it out to that wider audience.

126
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:46,480
This is a way we can support each other as we move forward talking about dyscalculia and support more people with the math learning disability.

127
00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:53,480
There are approximately 5 million kindergarten through 12th grade students in the United States alone.

128
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:58,480
Who have dyscalculia, whether or not it's diagnosed yet.

129
00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:03,480
And that means we need to be sharing resources and sharing information.

130
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:21,480
And I'm happy to do that through my two avenues at educalclearning.com and the DTRI.org or through my Facebook page or LinkedIn where you can email me at honora@educalclearning.com

131
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:28,480
For any questions or help I can provide I'm happy to do so.

132
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:44,480
This is Dr. Honora Wall and I thank you for listening to what in the world is dyscalculia and I am off to work on some 504 and IEP language with clarity and making sure my tone of voice comes through properly.

133
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:51,480
Thanks for listening.