Hello and welcome back to the latest edition of What in the World is Dyscalculia?
This is Dr. Honora Wall and the podcast is hosted by me and presented by EducalcLearning.
At Educalc Learning we create training for teachers and parents, interventionists, and administrators
to better understand the math learning disability, dyscalculia.
We also have a series of books addressing the needs of neurodiverse students and we
are putting the finishing touches on the first round of online math courses for K-12 students
or adults with dyscalculia who want to finally master math.
I also have a non-profit organization, the Dyscalculia Training and Research Institute.
That website is www.thedtri.org and that non-profit is focused on research and getting information
to school districts and psychologists and families about this math learning disability.
In today's podcast I want to take another look at a leading researcher and discuss their
findings about this issue.
I'm recording today's podcast from the University of Victoria in British Columbia.
I'm here for a conference of teacher educators and it's a great organization, fantastic campus,
I'm having a really good time.
But on my ferry over from Seattle to Victoria I was so excited to stand out on the back
deck of the Clipper Ferry and take in the sights and sounds at my first time being in
Canada and loved the experience but it was freezing outside.
So standing on the back deck before recording a podcast might not have been my smartest
choice.
Hopefully my voice is not too scratchy and we can get all this information to you today.
Let's dive in.
So the article I want to talk about today was published in Science Magazine and I'm sure
a few other places.
I got the link from ScienceMag.com and I'm going to put the full PDF on the DTRI.org
blog so you can read this information for yourself.
This article was titled Dyscalculia from Brain to Education and it was written by Brian Butterworth,
one of the all-star researchers in this field, Sacha Varma and Diana Laurillard who also
both do a lot of research in dyscalculia.
And the basic premise that these researchers take in their work is that there is a core
deficit underlying dyscalculia.
The same way there's a core deficit underlying dyslexia.
I don't know if anyone has looked into enough of the reasons behind dysgraphia or dyspraxia
to see if they also feel there's a core deficit or not.
Other researchers take a different approach, use a different lens and we'll talk about
those in other podcasts.
But for Butterworth and his work, he's looking at a core deficit.
So what in the world does that mean?
Core meaning there's one thing we can look for and then if we can find it, we can learn
how to screen for it, recognize it and address it in the most effective way.
Deficit meaning something that is making a person not be as strong in math as we would
think.
Not deficit as a problem or as an issue.
I want to watch the wording there.
As you know, we are changing the vocabulary.
We're stopping a conversation that involves shame or embarrassment for people with learning
differences and that is certainly not at all what these researchers are going with at
all.
They're using a very specific form of vocabulary for their research and that's different
than just generic terms.
Okay, so what in the world did they say in this article?
What are we going on and on about?
Well, they definitely talk about dyscalculia having that single core issue in learning
math.
They mentioned how dyscalculia could be highly selective and you can find it usually with
people who have normal to above average intelligence, normal working memory.
Sometimes you can have issues with visual spatial skills, but a lot of times people who have
dyscalculia are very good at geometry or they're very good at using a statistics program or
other kinds of computer programs.
If we can get past the fear of numbers and the fear of that public failure and embarrassment,
then we can use things like Excel programs and we can use a calculator to get the work
done faster and handle the numbers part while we handle the problem solving part.
That's a really strong area of success for people with dyscalculia.
The problem many people run into is that their K-12 math experiences were so negative and
their experiences with family members and friends are so negative that they hesitate
to use these other programs or do anything that involves math or numbers because they've
gotten such negative feedback from people.
Make sure you are not passing on those negative conversations.
If you are a teacher, a parent, or a spouse, be more supportive and understand what your
loved one is going through.
So a really interesting piece from this article and I'm going to quote here.
This is a direct quote.
These findings imply that arithmetical learning is at least partly based on a cognitive system
that is distinct from those underpinning scholastic attainment more generally.
Cognitive system.
This is involved in the brain.
It's not involved in how many times you use flashcards.
It's not involved in how many times you gave that same time test.
Please stop doing that.
It's not involved with how many times the student paid attention or worked hard or practiced
at home.
That's not what we're talking about for students with dyscalculia.
And this is very different and outside of the scope of the systems that underline generic
scholastic success.
Again, so we can see success in other areas of education.
And our traditional methods of teaching and practicing and learning and recalling are
not going to apply to this group.
The same way we can have a conversation about how great cardio is for heart health and how
running is a really great method of increasing your cardio.
And we can talk about all of the things that make someone a strong runner.
That's not going to help people who are using a wheelchair.
People who are using leg braces.
People who are temporarily or permanently having hip issues or knee issues or shin splints.
Now we have different considerations.
So we're not going to talk about how to become a faster, better, stronger runner.
We're going to talk about other ways to reach that cardiovascular health.
So that's really kind of the conversation we need to shift in the world of education.
Another key finding from this article is where the researchers talk about how dyscalculia
can be a distinct deficit coming from the impairment of mental and neural representation
of finger counting.
And this goes on to the coding aspect that some other researchers look into.
So it's not like these fields are one or the other.
It's not like the lens or the approach is totally different.
There's a lot of overlap in our understanding.
And as I always say, we need a lot more understanding.
So if you're a researcher, get involved in this field.
Okay, what we mean when we're talking about mental and neural is the way we think about
and the way we code in our brain and the way we understand counting and numbers.
And we start that through our fingers.
That's a lot of research in human development before the age of six or seven.
And really very, very early we can see when extremely young children, early childhood
development, we can see when babies and infants are recognizing that they are counting, that
they are separating, that they are listing, that they are grouping.
And a lot of our initial counting and adding and combining comes from finger counting,
which is one of the reasons why a program like Touch Math is really good for people
who are increasing their number skills.
And it's used a lot in interventions and coaching work.
And it's something that we see in older students where they might be counting on their fingers,
but they're trying to hide that because now they get to an age in second, third, fourth
grade where it might be helpful for them to count on their fingers, but they don't want
other people to know because they're aware that other people are not doing the same thing
anymore.
So we think that one of the pieces of dyscalculia is that somewhere in that cognitive development
there's a weakness or lack even of establishing that finger counting and numerosity, what
numbers mean.
And that can be an area of intervention that can potentially increase confidence and skills.
Of course as we get older or outside of the intervention space when we're looking at classroom
activities, the pacing is just too fast.
We have too much we have to get done in too short a period of time and then we need to
offer students other support methods than simply finger counting.
We need to move on because they need to move on and we're pushing them and our tools need
to reflect that.
One interesting piece in this article and if you look at the PDF, it'll be online at
the dtri.org under our blog.
They had a great graphic that really shows the interaction of the biological, cognitive,
and behavioral processes involved in doing math.
And those biological pieces and parts that are so key for people with dyscalculia are
issues in the parietal lobe.
They also interact with the prefrontal cortex, with the occipitotemporal cortex.
I don't want to get too much into the neurology piece of it but it's fascinating if you're
interested in that and it's important, even if you're not interested in becoming an arm
chair neurologist, it's important to understand that we're talking about the brain and how
different parts of the brain interact and how that parietal lobe can lose information.
That makes all the other processes more difficult.
Then we have the cognitive piece.
So the biological is a little bit more like wiring and neurological connections.
The cognitive piece is more about the thinking and reflecting, understanding number symbols
and what they mean.
If you look at a written seven, what does that mean in terms of seven blocks or in terms
of multiplying and adding, using basic facts?
What are the principles and procedures tied to the vocabulary of an area or perimeter
or volume of a sphere?
So there's a lot of different cognitive pieces that go on.
And then at the end, we have the behavioral piece of actually completing the number task,
doing the arithmetic.
So lots of stuff going on when we're processing math.
And with dyscalculia, we're finding weaknesses in that biological space and they impact the
cognitive space.
Those two are kind of tied together with this math learning disability and they impact
our behavioral piece of getting the work done.
So lots of information there.
What does that mean for the non-researchers listing?
Maybe you joined the podcast just because you want to understand dyscalculia and you're
trying to help your students.
And this was a lot of information that doesn't seem like it's going to help you this afternoon
getting through homework or classwork.
So here's where the information is important for parents, teachers, and administrators.
If we are going to help students with dyscalculia succeed, then we have to understand what's
in their way.
We cannot help people until we understand what it is that they're going through.
And this reminds me of a conversation in a thread I saw in an online math group.
Recently, and I won't call the people or the group out, but it's a whole bunch of math
teachers.
And the conversation was about the importance of memorization and those basic facts and
having that math fluency.
And the conversation kept reverting back to the best ways to memorize.
And all the memorizing in the world is not going to do anyone a bit of good if their
parietal lobe takes what they memorized and basically dumps it in the trash, like an
overzealous cleaning crew that gets rid of math information that's already been learned.
So when we have a mindset that memorizing basic facts is key to math success and we
get stuck there, then we're not going to be able to help people who can memorize and
forget, memorize and lose information.
Memorize and be really close.
Let's see, is 7 times 6, is that 43, is it 39?
No, it's somewhere around there.
That kind of thinking and that kind of retrievalness taking time is not going to help build confidence
or fluency or the automaticity that we're looking for.
And that's why I strongly encourage you to use 1 to 100 strats, program of letting students
count on their fingers, playing games to increase the numerosity under 10.
So for example, there's some computer programs you can use that are designed to help strengthen
estimation, looking at a set of objects and figuring out how many are in the set, using
manipulatives in the classroom like the rods or the graphics.
See if those work for your students, if there are any visual spatial issues or if they're
just not connecting the image or the rod to numbers and place value, you're going to have
to see on a case by case basis what's working for your student and what is not.
You can also play games with cards or with dice where you're trying to combine to 10.
So if you have a 3 card, does someone else have a 7?
All right, now you can make 10.
If one person rolls a 4, can the other person roll dice and get a 6?
Now you've made a 10.
Doing different combinations like that, but stick to those smaller numbers because we
want to strengthen the foundation and that will lend itself to doing the same kind of
work with higher numbers.
We build a house from the foundation, not from the second floor.
But again, because the research in this area is still lighter than we need it to be, we
are doing a lot of trying it for ourselves.
So teachers and parents trying to help at home, keep trying different things.
You're going to find what works best for your student.
If you're an adult or a student listening and you're trying to feel better about numbers
and increase your math confidence, try a bunch of different things and keep going until you
find the thing that works best for you.
That's more enjoyable, that you're going to stick with it, that it's making a difference.
And be open to that idea.
Same way, if we go back to our heart healthy cardio analogy, the best kind of exercise
to do is the kind you're going to do regularly.
Because consistency is what makes a real difference.
And we're going to do the same thing in our approach to increasing math confidence and
math success.
We're going to find whatever is best for the individual.
And we're going to keep doing that consistently so that we can increase our mastery.
I think that's plenty enough talk for this podcast.
If you are interested in this article by doctors Butterworth, Varma and Laura Larn called
Dyscalculia from Brain to Education.
Of course you can look it up anywhere online.
I found it at sciencemag.com.
You can also go to the blog page on www.thedtri.org and I'll have a link to the PDF there.
This is Dr. Honora Wall and I thank you for listening to What in the World is Dyscalculia.
If you have any questions or comments for me, please email me Honora, H-O-N-O-R-A at
educalclearning.com or Honora at thedtri.org.
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Please subscribe and like and follow us in our different places so that we can increase
our reach and our expansion of awareness of Dyscalculia.
And if you have any future podcast topics you'd like to hear about, reach out.
I'll be happy to include them.
Thank you for listening to What in the World is Dyscalculia and we'll talk more next time.