This shit ain't nothing to me, man. This is Boxing
Before Dark. All right. Are we ready to boogie?
Absolutely. We've been boogieing. We've been
boogieing already. Boxing Before Dark. Holy shit,
we're back. Did you think we left? No, we're
just on a little break. A little hiatus. Leo
lives in a third world state, so we missed a
week. It was this weird situation with internet.
It was really nerdy. We don't really have to
get into that. But we're joined by somebody new.
My man, Jacob. Welcome. Hello, hello. I'm very
happy to be here. I've been listening since I
found out about you guys. And obviously I've
been on the Discord as well, making myself known.
So yeah, pretty keen to get amongst it and just
chat boxing for a few hours on the weekend. Absolutely.
I'm super excited. We have insider knowledge
with a real boxer. Good insight. I'd limit how
much I'd call myself a monster because I haven't
fought yet, but at least I've been on the unfortunate
end of a few pretty rough punches in my time,
so I've been hit by what I'm seeing. Well, let's
get into... Since we've been away for a little
bit, let's get into some... Let's reach a little
bit way back. A little into the way back machine.
And we're going to go back to July 19th because
this was a busy day and we fucking missed it
because of technical difficulties. It's no fun.
Let's start with Matchroom at the Star at the
Frisco. The Dallas Cowboys training arena, I
think it is. Yeah, that's a crazy location. Yeah,
definitely. Some... Stuff coming up from the
bottom here. Nishant Dev gets a stoppage in six
over Omar Rosales. If you're not paying attention
to Nishant, don't worry, because I will. I like
him. He's got it. He's pretty good. Yeah, he's
pretty damn good for coming out of the 80s. Yeah,
well, that's the thing. Watching him in the Olympics
and how his movement is as well was something
really impressive. It'll be interesting to see
how much his... He's getting stoppages, but I
don't know how much his actual power itself is
going to hold up at different stages. But in
terms of skill level, he looks absolutely brilliant.
Yeah. He's translating a lot better than people
expected him to early on. Because we see a lot
of guys do pretty well in the amateurs, and no
one really knows how much it's going to translate
to the pros. But like I say, he's looking pretty
good, man. I see why you're paying attention.
We all should. I think since they switched to
the 10 -point must system for scoring, that's
when... It helps the amateurs. It helps the amateurs
transition a lot better. Like Andy Cruz looks
fantastic. Yeah. It's really hard to score 10
-point musts sometimes. There legitimately are,
for me, some 10 -10 rounds. They're super rare.
But if you have to pick somebody, it really changes
your scorecard. It really does. Especially because
a lot of it depends on what a judge values as
well. Because people can see the exact same round,
right? And they can watch it. They can watch
it 10 times over. They can see the exact same
things. But based on their understanding of the
sport, they'll value things completely differently.
I guarantee me and you would have different scorecards.
Yeah, I mean, we probably would. And, you know,
my scorecard compared to a lot of my mates at
the gym and all that would be completely different
because, you know, if you're someone who values
high -level pressure fighting, you know, you're
probably looking at someone like, you know, we're
just going to assume that it's not this exact
fight. But just as an example, you know, you
look at Thorne versus Pacquiao where one of them's
landing much cleaner punches than much more of
them and one of them's just... pushing up, being
aggressive, getting in their face way more. For
some guys, they value the latter. Some guys value
the former. And it's a way to get these weird
things to the scorecards. And I always think
about it as well with a more high -level example,
I suppose. Not that my goat, Jeff Bourne, is
not high -level, but if you look at Conor Whittaker,
Conor Whittaker versus Oscar De La Hoya, that's
a pretty controversial fight amongst some people
nowadays. Because they were both doing different
things. You know, have some people say, oh, well,
you know, Delaware couldn't land anything on
Whitaker. But then you have other people that
are like, oh, Whitaker wasn't hitting him back.
He was making a miss for not countering. So why
should he do it? You can't win on defense. You
can't win a fight if you don't hit anybody. That's
100 % it. And that's why I respect, you know,
different takes on... you know, judging a scorecard
because you really have no way to judge values.
Some guys will look at ring journals, some guys
will look at his landing. Some guys will look
at who paid them the most. Yeah. Fucking Tim
Cheatham. Yeah, oh, this is a crazy sport. It's
the wildest out there. Yeah, it can really be
anything. Let's move up. Omari Jones, who I believe
was an Olympian for the U .S., gets a stoppage
in three over Alfredo Blanco. No big deal. Also
no big deal, Austin Williams. Boo this man. TKO9
over who? Exactly. Has he gone back to his better
nickname yet? I believe so. He's Ammo again.
Ammo is so much cooler than Tiger Williams. Tiger
Williams has been done to death. I think that
goes hard. Tiger? So to me, Tiger Williams is
always going to be an NHL player that 99 % of
boxing fans have never heard of. Oh, yeah, it's
true. I just thought it was like a phrase that
sounded cool, to be honest. He had the most penalty
minutes in a season for decades. So, anyways.
Moving up. Unless you have anything to add on,
Emma, do you want to dunk on him a little bit
for being a little bit leaky? He is leaky. He's
always been leaky. And everybody keeps telling
us that, well, he'll tighten up when he has to.
So I guess we need to see him against somebody
he has to. Like, how old is Ammo? He must be
getting to where they should step him up, right?
He's 29. They need to start putting him against
better competition. Well, when they did, he got
knocked out. Yeah, well, then maybe he's just
not so good. He's the only hope that we have.
For middleweight here in the U .S., we don't
have anybody. The U .S. copium is madness. Yeah,
well, can't help it sometimes. Middleweight's
a funny division because you look historically
at some of the fighters that you've had in that
division. It's usually been stacked, but you
look at especially for America, it's in a straight
place. Anyone who's any good moved up to chase
Canelo money. I think is what it is right now.
Sends Janabek. Yeah, well, Janabek knows he's
not getting Canelo money because he's high risk,
low reward. He's not cool enough. Yeah. You know
who was cool? Diego Pacheco. Cool under pressure.
Was he? Cool under fire. I'm really trying to
glaze him here. I really like... Or I want Diego
Pacheco to be really good. I do too. But... He
looked nice. I thought he pitched a really mature
game. Didn't succumb to a lot of McCombie's pressure.
Which, if he was a little bit more raw, like
he was a few fights ago, then it might not have
gone as well for him. True. And maybe McCombie's
a little better than he gets credit for. I think
so. People are like, oh yeah, he had plant on
the ropes, but plant's washed. And I don't know
if plant's that washed. He's past his peak, but...
Yeah. Crossing is a sport where people are quick
to call someone washed. Super quick. Yeah, very,
very quick. And I think it's because there's
obviously that obsession with not losing a fight.
But if you look at, you know, this, like, Plant,
McCombie, Pacheco, if you look at all of this,
Taylor Plant is still going to be a high -level
fighter. Like, it's not as if he is at a point
where George Cambosos might be, for example,
where he's... From a business perspective, he
is at the end of his run because he's racked
up that amount of losses. And I look at his and
how he went against McCombie. He still got the
job done. But I think if you're looking at the
actual boxing that's going on there, I think
they both made some pretty good account of themselves.
I think McCombie impressed me a lot more than
I expected. And that's why I do give Pacheco
credit because he did go out there and do what
he did. I think, yeah, McCombie, I think he's
at a higher level than people tend to give him
credit for. I think that's a better win for any
boxer. Not just because of, you know, how much
I love Cato Plant. You know, he's one of my favorite
boxers. But also because if you look at Pacheco
and the way that he handled that fight, like
you said, he pitched an incredibly mature game.
Like, he came in with the game plan that he needed
to. He used all of his attributes properly. And
especially because McCombie's a tricky guy at
times. You gotta be a certain type of good to
be able to put enough of a pressure game on against
Caleb Plant. Because he can move. Because Caleb
can really move. So if you are able to do that
to him, and then Checo has that thought of a
fight against Kambi, I just think that's past
marks all around me, personally. I don't know,
I'm probably not being too critical enough for
it. from podcasts but i just do think that there's
path marks all around they all handed that really
well well mccombie clearly has power and that's
something that i don't think pacheco's had to
deal with before maybe i'm misremembering some
of pacheco's fights but none of the guys on his
box rec really stand out as being oh shit he
can punch and people can say anything else but
mccombie buzzed Plant a few times. Like, McCombie
hurt him. Plant, the guys that have hurt Plant
historically, like, you look at some of his fights
and the level of his years, Canelo obviously
being, like, he worked it, man, especially once
he just figured out his rhythm and everything.
But, McCombie sticks out like a thorn a lot more
because a lot of the other guys he's beat, you
know, for his world titles, like, he was... in
my opinion you know i was watching some of this
advice again last night he was just cruising
you know like caleb was just they couldn't get
it um but he has a lot of names that are kind
of garbage like who is caleb trow true i don't
i don't even know how you say that now yeah oh
that guy or like vincent felgenbutts or mike
lee or jose like Leo, you're the name guy. I
have no idea how you read these things. Boxing
is broad, man. I mean, that's the thing with
the way the belts work in interim belt. There's
so many different belts, man, that by the time
that you get to tracking who all the champions
are, there's just so many of them. Oh, okay.
This is a complete derailment. To settle a Discord
argument. Leo, who has the global belts? WBL.
Global? Okay, thank you. Fuck, I couldn't find
it earlier today and people are like, no, global
is the world titles. No. No. WBL global. Yeah,
okay. Straight up global. Damn all. I added you
in the Discord and you didn't answer. Sorry.
Oh, no. Absolutely derailed me. That's good.
Moving up to Bam stopping Pumelala Kafu. Bam's
still not getting his flowers, and it makes me
sad. I think because Kafu was really tentative
and really timid, rather. But Kafu's a counterpuncher.
I don't think it was a terrible game plan, but
it looked bad. If that makes sense. Yeah. So
Bam has better movement. So Cafu tried to completely
negate the movement by just camping in the corners.
Cafu was looking for a Gabe Rosado type knockout.
Like, Rosado against Beck is what he was going
for eventually. And it didn't work. And I was
a little disappointed. I did think this would
be a more exciting fight. I was expecting more
fireworks. Yeah, Cafu is still a really good
boxer. And at the very least, Bam had him scared
enough. He felt he couldn't box in the middle
of the ring. I think this is a good win for Bam.
And I think nobody's going to recognize it because
they don't know who the fuck Cafu is. It's the
problem that everyone at the lower weight classes
has. I like the win. I think it's good. But Bam...
Yeah, it's a good win. I reserve this term for
a very select few. I try to keep the sanctity
of it a little bit, but Bam is something special.
Yeah. That guy is special. But that's a problem
in itself for boxers. When you make everything
look easy, everyone assumes your competition
is bad. Bam is suffering from success just like
Inoue did at like 118, 122. Inoue still does.
Inoue still does. I think he does. I think in
the eyes of a lot of people. Because you see
it a lot of the time with people talking about
pound -for -pound rankings. And getting involved
in pound -for -pound conversations, I hate that
so much just because I think... It's so hard
to actually... There's such a fun talking point,
but I wouldn't... It is. But people also fucking
never watch the lower weight classes. So when
I throw out a name like... Well, Bam's famous
now. But when I throw out a name like Kalazo,
people are like, who the fuck's that? Who's he
beating? And I'm like, he's beating a bunch of
really good guys you've never fucking heard of.
Yeah. Just because I'm a degen for the midgets
doesn't mean that they're not good. It just means
you don't know who I'm talking about. I get called
out at bars constantly and they're like, name
five boxers. And I name people in 105, 108. And
they're like, I've never heard of any of them.
And I'm like, fucking Google it. If you can spell
that random ass Thai name. Yeah, well. I skipped
the TIE fighters because I can't spell them either.
I can't spell them. I actually got into both
when you were doing Muay Thai. Oh, so this shouldn't
be too difficult for you. Oh, no, it's very difficult.
Do you watch the one Friday night fights? It's
my new favorite thing. Me and Zoe watch them
and hang out on the Discord. It's super fun.
I don't know if it was his Friday Night Fights,
but my guy Tyson Harrison, he's from my gym.
He just recently won his fight in one championship.
I didn't want to talk about that for a second.
Very proud of him, obviously. He came out of
our gym in Brisbane, Tyson Harrison. And, yeah,
he fights on one championship. So I absolutely
love watching, you know, and obviously the higher
level guys as well, like, you know, Bob Tang,
Taiwan Chi. I love watching them train as well.
Nice. Still, let's do another game. Oh, I have
to be, man. It's just too common. That's how
I got started with. And there's many such cases
like that, too. Like, I think it was Chris Coates.
Henshin Nasatawa. He was a kickboxer, wasn't
he? Ah, fuck. Yeah. He was. He was. Kickboxing,
not Muay Thai. Yeah, kickboxing. I always love
bringing that up because it's so funny seeing
the different idiosyncrasies with them, too.
Because a lot of times, like, for example, when
I was sparring this morning, those usual Saturday
sparring sessions, there's a lot of Muay Thai
fighters that come there to work on their boxing,
and you can tell because they've got such a distinct
guard. Yeah, well, and the stances are very different.
Yeah. Like, the footwork is different. So different.
I think that's what I actually, that was my biggest
struggle as a boxer early on. Changing your feet?
Yeah, no, because I was... You know, I was always
trying to think of, oh, I've got to check a kick.
But, you know, in boxing, no one's kicking me,
I hope. Except Nick Ball. Someone will do it.
Which fight was that, Leo? The Goodman fight?
Which? Nick Ball. With the kick. He kicked someone?
Yeah, it was Sam Goodman, right? I think you're
right. I just want to say the facts that when
they released the starring videos, right? My
guy was he had. Oh, no, it's TJ Doheny. I had
the wrong in a way opponent. Nick Ball kicked
TJ Doheny. Oh, I remember watching that fight.
Doheny is such a weird fighter, bro. weird to
watch he's got like this weird rhythm adjustment
it's fun to watch but i get why in a way it takes
him off the way he did well anything more for
bam no i've been so good yeah one of my favorites
right now Yeah, and that's the thing. Seeing
a guy that fights with that high guard and a
low weight division as well is the absolute best
thing in the world because those guys are so
fast and twitchy. So, you know, one moment they
throw something and the next they've already
popped back into guard and it's just like, bang,
they're already gone. That's crazy. Those guys
just move so well. I wish I could move like that.
I'm unfortunately a bit heavier than that, a
bit taller. I can't model my fight offense too
much. All right, let's move up. Fucking... PBC
on Prime. Just some quick ones. Stop me if you
need to. Gary Allen Russell stops Hugo Castaneda
in 10. Mark Bexayo still doing it. UD over Jorge
Mata. I wanna... Just a little bit. What the
fuck happened to Mark Magzayo? Because I was
excited about him. And then he just disappeared
for fucking ever. And this is basically being
disappeared. I mean, he's under undercard on...
Yeah, it's all the prelims. Yeah. Like, he's
not that bad. I don't understand why he got delegated
to bullshit. Or is he bad and I just like him?
He's not terrible. Maybe it's just... Maybe it's
just me and my, like, Filipino bias, but I like
Mark Magzayo. Well, and he trains with Freddie
Roach, which I also have a bias for, so... Definitely
so. Anyways, that's all I wanted to bring up.
What the fuck happened to Mark Magzayo? Good
question. We'll have to see if he has any fights
coming up. Because usually, sometimes if guys
don't have much wind, as long as they keep fighting,
they can change promotions and they kind of pop
back up sometimes. I mean, look, some of these
people are still fighting. So there's definitely
a chance. After the loss of Brandon Figueroa,
he kind of went... back down to the regional
scene, kind of. And he was fighting on the Thunder
Studios cards. Marv Nation. I guess he did have
two losses in a row, but I just don't think he's
that bad that that should delegate him to garbage.
Losses are to Ray Vargas, say what you will,
but he's still pretty decent. And Brandon Figueroa
is good. Or is he? No, he's world class. Like,
even if, for example, obviously, he's not fighting
at a world championship level at the moment.
But even just being in the mix with some of those
guys, if you lose to someone like that, that
kind of does put a bit of a buffer. Because,
I mean, put it this way, right? Like, imagine
that you're losing to someone who isn't. fully
at that championship level and you're trying
to convince a promoter that you'll be at that
championship level if your loss is to someone
who wasn't fully there I guess yeah that's that's
usually what it is because I think about it because
there's some you know some guys that they're
just like so close but no cigar against some
genuinely you know top level opponents maybe
it's just a style matchup or whatever but they've
still got the skill like you know you mentioned
in this case but There's just so many times where
because of that and having that loss, because
it's such a record -sensitive sport. It is, and
I hate that because it makes people not want
to push themselves. Yeah, correct. It brings
too much of a business sense looking for the
O. And I don't think it's necessarily something
that has to be in existence because you can see
some fighters kind of coming away from that.
The fact that Manny Pacquiao was back and got
a world championship. Obviously, he's a special
case because he's an all -time great. But the
fact that he was even back. You look at his resume.
He's had some losses. It was the generation that
was there during Floyd. They had absolutely zero
issue taking some losses. You can look at Delahoya.
There's Hopkins. I've said this a million times.
Floyd Mayweather Jr. fucked boxing. He was terrible
for the sport of boxing. I don't even think it
was his fault. I just think he was not good.
Like, I think there was a point where a lot of...
I think the way he promoted himself and the advice
he gives younger fighters is his fault. I don't
think it's his fault for being that good, but,
like, we didn't see the same problem after Rocky
Marciano. Right? Like, I think Floyd Mayweather...
was enough of a media star and, like, an influence
outside of the ring that he fucked it. But I
also just don't like him, so. That's completely
respectable, to be honest. I think he's an absolutely
deplorable human being. Which shouldn't really
have to mean much saying, but yeah. Yeah. Anyways.
David Picasso. Majority decision over Kenosuke
Kameda. Is this one of the Kameda clan? I'm not
sure. I have to go look at his face. Oh my god,
the Kamedas are crashing out. If we have time,
we have to discuss it. Yes, please. I'm pretty
sure this is one of the Kamedas. He looks like
one of the Kamedas. moving up brandon figueroa
ud over joette gonzalez um so it's it's interesting
no what number one that should not have been
unanimous i would be okay with figueroa winning
but some of those scorecards are fucked yeah
that was a close fight yeah that's that's what
i was gonna get at was like this is a this is
a guy that's like tailor -made stylistically
for someone like brandon figueroa To have a really
emphatic win. To remind the viewing public. Like
I'm still Brandon Figueroa. Despite Stephen Fulton
kind of clowning on me a little bit. Which is
clearly what they had planned. But. Joette Gonzalez.
Did not come to lose. Joette Gonzalez did not
get the script. I thought that was a super close
fight. I always cheer for the underdog. So I
thought. joette probably won by one round but
my scorecards are often fucked but it was not
as wide as the official scorecards it just wasn't
like it had to be closer than that the the 15
115 113 of course is good but The one guy only
gave Gonzalez the first four rounds and gave
the last eight to Figueroa. That is not how that
fight played out. That had to have been filled
in ahead of time. That's not what that fight
was. Everybody giving Figueroa the last four
rounds is a little suspect to me. Like, that
was clearly, okay, we can't, we can't, we can't.
Okay, but everything close goes to the A -side.
Or am I crazy and I was just cheering for Joette
Gonzalez because I like him? You said one of
my trigger words. A -side. B's only, please.
But that's what happened in this fight. Like,
maybe you could convince me. Maybe. But you have
to be biased to make the convincing. To be honest,
the way I see it, when it came back to that last
four rounds, I think they were just looking at
who was imposing themselves. I don't know about
the arrangement of the scorecards, but I do think
there was that period in the middle of the fight
where it looked like Pacheco was just fighting
his fight. That's essentially the phrase. It
was the guy who... looks like even if he wasn't
landing every clean punch in the world, the way
that he was dictating the tempo and whereabouts
they were doing their boxing just looked like
it was completely in Figueroa's control. And
I think that's probably something they would
have valued. Whether that means the scorecards
ended up the way they were, I don't know. There's
probably some reason the judges done that. But
I think I understand why it ended up. But I also
understand why the scorecards themselves are
weird. Because I don't think it was massively
wide. But at the same time, you know, this is
a sport where you can have a really, really close
fight and a really, really wide scorecard. It
is. Because a wide scorecard doesn't mean that
it wasn't a close fight. You know, and vice versa.
My problem with this one is that It really feels
like every close round on every scorecard went
to the A side. And I like Figueroa. It's not
that I'm against them, but they're so uniform.
It's sketchy. It never has to be like or dislike
of a fighter. Sometimes it's just the way the
promotion is run or the way it seems. the way
things just look like they're going but also
joe gonzalez gets constantly that's what he's
there for until he exists to be he he's there
to get i understand that but he tries so hard
and he does such a good job like he is one of
those b -sides that will always be there until
the end of the fight trying to win it And they
fuck him every time. And I don't even just mean
with losses. I just mean on the scorecard. Like,
they don't appreciate him. Makes me sad. Fulton
made a really good account of himself. Figueroa
is tricky. Like, I think that's the thing. Boxing
is very much a sport of levels because you look
at, for example, Fulton, right? And how he looked
against Figueroa recently. Fulton looks incredible.
Now, then you look at Folsom versus Inouye, and
then you look at Figueroa versus Gonzalez, and
you can see there's just so many different levels
of play here, right? That's true. It just means
it's a sport where you do get guys like Gonzalez,
unfortunately, where they're good fighters. Watch
them. They're good. But they do find themselves
being the B -side, because they're sort of like
the B -side of the B -side, if that makes sense.
Yeah, I know what you mean. gatekeepers, even
if they're not as bad as most gatekeepers. That's
the term. That's the term. You're gatekeeping
elite instead of gatekeeping world level. Like,
those are kind of two different gatekeeps. And
man, in a sport like this, if you're getting
money for doing that, you're winning. It's a
dangerous sport. You want to be compensated appropriately.
Fair enough. But I still feel bad for Julek Gonzalez.
Yeah, I don't blame you at all because you see
that, you know, he did what you want a fighter
to do. He definitely gave every account of himself
that he could. And especially Figueroa, you know,
he's got the kind of style that makes it difficult
to fight him. So you don't stick to going with
that game plan towards being able to make it
look like he had the sequences he did against
Figueroa. He's a bit longer of a fighter from
memory. yeah figueroa's got a bit of a fundora
build not quite as bad but yeah the human pacheco
is similar in that sense i think in terms of
where they're really aggressive in fighters pressure
fighters mostly and they're very long and they're
such awkward opponents right and especially they're
awkward for you know fewer boxes but they're
even more awkward if you're a pressure fighter
yourself because You see that long jab and you're
trying to get away from it. And then instead
of, you know, coming off the back foot or avoiding
that, you've got this guy who just comes straight
at you and you're still in combos. So that was
an entertaining fight, I think, above everything
else. Because they both wanted to bring that
fight there. I thought Gonzalez was boxing really
nicely a lot of the time. But, yeah. That leads
nicely into the next fight, though. Because Fandora
found a fucking jab. What is this? This is mythical
status. I've been saying Fandora with a jab is
mythical status. He might be unbeatable now.
Him getting into Harvard has made Fandora unbeatable.
That's such insane law as well. It really is.
That's studying engineering. A six year engineering
degree. Fucking Harvard. That's crazy. that actively
churns your brain cells out. Like, that's so
awesome. And my favorite part is, like you said,
Tondora, he was a completely different fighter
there. I think there was so many talking points
made in the media about what's him. This would
be a different Tim because he wouldn't have the
cut. I don't think people took into account that
Tondora, like, he's been in the lab, man. Oh,
I didn't expect this. I didn't expect Fundora
to evolve like this. Like, this is Fundora making
bigger changes than Fundora has ever made. Everybody
always talks shit about Fundora not using his
size, and he suddenly... I mean, it fell apart.
Tim did pressure him enough that Fundora went
to base. Back to monoloid system settings. Thank
you. I don't know how to say it nicely, but like...
He made Fundora forget that he's not stupid.
Like, Fundora has been fighting stupid. He's
been infighting as a fucking seven foot tall
guy. Like, that's dumb. But, Tim made him forget
that he had a jab. Tim made him forget that he
could keep him on the outside. I'll let Jacob
give his thoughts on this one, but I think I
might be right. I think Tim might just be...
kind of mentally broken yeah i've had a few weeks
of thinking about this one so because as a segue
the first thing is that first and foremost fondora
evolved a lot and the fondora that they had film
on heading into that camp is not what they got
on fight night so 100 i agree absolutely and
that that is a massive credit to fondora because
if you look at the greatest boxers of all time
they have one thing in common and it's that they've
got plan a b c and d um even if they're not implicit
fans they've got the skills and the kit bag you
know and that's that's what you need to do to
be on that level and tim didn't really have that
plan b which one of my favorite points on him
not really having that plan b is if you look
at one of his favorite fighters who He actually
does try to emulate in terms of fight style,
and it's Triple G. He likes to put the pressure
on in that high guard and all that. But the difference
between him and Triple G is with Triple G's amateur
career and what he led into, he always had that
plan B. He can have that fight like versus Lemieux
where he just completely picks them apart with
a jab. Yeah, goes back behind the jab. It was
a beautiful thing, that one. Exactly. And that's
how it is. I think one of my favorite boxers
of all time, Andre Ward, I always think the same
thing. I watch a lot of his fights and he has
had so many different looks he's given to fighters.
Whether he picks a point where he's like, okay,
we're going to be infighting today or we're going
to be popping the one -two. There's so many options
in his kit bag. And that's what Fandora brought.
He was able to adjust. He knew what Tim was going
to struggle with the most. Because Tim, he can
deal with a jab sometimes if he's able to move
in after the jab. If the jab's followed up with
something else, like against murder's a leave,
that's where we get the issue. Because it's the
same thing that comes up in his pad work where
there's all the footwork issues. Especially,
you know, he comes across, he might be crossing
his feet over. He might be balanced. He doesn't
keep his balance right. There's so many different
little small details that... typically in other
boxing economies uh for lack of better words
they do get on top of but yeah that's that's
the thing fondora he understood at all times
if he popped the jab up that he needed to keep
that two on the back because he wasn't just like
devon hating that thing you know like he was
he was loading up on some combos he was making
sure that he got tim's respect and that's when
tim realized he was gonna have to take a shot
if he was gonna land a shot and Once Tim realized
that, he started going well. But I think the
reason that the fight stopped when it did was
because he just was taking that many shots. And
it was brilliant. It was an outstanding use of
his skill set. And he should be able to keep
his inside game and his pressure game along with
his career as well. Because the fact of the matter
is, if you're a lanky guy who can both pressure
fight and fight on the outside, that makes you
that much better. I think about Hitchens, you
can't get on the inside of Hitchens and you don't
really want to. Same as, you know, again, I don't
know why his name eluded me. He's one of my favorite
flatters. Junto Nakatani, you don't want to get
on his inside particularly either. I don't know
if I agree with that one. I think, I personally
think his uppercut is good enough to keep people
away. I think part of why Nakatani kind of lost
his cool against Nishida is because Nishida was
beating him on the inside. Yeah, I mean, he's
got a really long torso. That's always going
to be there. I just mean, like, this is months
ago on the podcast, but Nakatani did not respond
well to Nishida getting in and having success.
Nakatani kind of threw a tantrum like a fucking
child, in my opinion. That was really funny.
I still like Nakatani, but he's definitely gone
down on my list a lot. I didn't give it time.
I think when I say Nakatani and on the inside,
I mean more, you know he will work your body.
Right, but... So the thing with Fandora is he's
okay taking shots on the inside. Like, Fandora
is happy fighting on the inside, taking them
or giving them. Yeah. But Nakatani isn't. Yeah,
okay, that's fair. I've heard... So it's not
my theory. I think it was maybe Chris Algieri.
Anyways, doesn't matter. One of the podcasts
I listened to, they thought maybe the Tim Zhu
stoppage happened when it did because I was surprised.
I thought Zhu had his best round right before
they stopped it. And the theory on the podcast
was that Tim Zhu kind of... blew his load like
he he gave his all and realized that he didn't
hurt well he didn't hurt fundora and even if
he gets on the inside fundora is a good inside
fighter so i fucking took a bunch of damage and
extended all this effort to get to the inside
to just have a harder fight somehow right like
It was demoralizing. He got past the jab, he
put in all this effort, and he had some success.
But when he got there, he was met with even more
resistance than he had just overcome. And that
kind of mentally broke him more than physically.
Although I do think... Tim was taking damage.
There's no doubt about that. But it did seem
weird to me that he quit after the round he had
the most success. But this is something I've
said before, and I'll say again, if a fighter
can't trust their corner to call it when they
should, they'll quit. It's not just a Tim Zhu
thing, but if you don't trust your corner to
protect you, you'll protect yourself. I mean,
they definitely don't have a track record of
projecting it. Exactly. After that first Fundora
fight, Tim can't trust his corner. Like, okay,
Jacob, we've never asked you because it's your
first time on the podcast. What do you think
of that first fight? Like, that should have been
a no contest. That big fucking cut, somebody
should have stopped it. If the doctor isn't going
to do it, which I think was ridiculous, the doctor
should have fucking stopped it. The ref should
have stopped it. But if they don't stop it, the
corner has to. Yes. Somebody has to. Tim's corner
fucking failed him. Yeah, I mean, the others
failed him too, but he's not their person. So,
like, the corner failed him. He can't trust his
corner ever again. Who's the Mexican Leo? He
was in an interview straight up saying, I don't
trust my corner to stop it. And everyone called
him a quitter. I don't know who you're talking
about. No, I can picture his face and I have
no idea what his name is. And I'm just going
to sound racist if I get it wrong. Yeah. It wasn't
Mikey Garcia. It was, but he kind of looks like
Mikey Garcia. Maybe a little older. No, I'm going
to get fucking tore apart. Fuck, I can see his
face. I have no idea what his name is. Anyways,
they called him a quitter. They called him a
quitter a couple times. And after he retired,
he said, well, it's because that first time I
just took way too much damage and my corner didn't
stop it and I could never trust them again. I
feel like... Daniel Dubois might be in a similar
situation because they wouldn't pull him out
for his eye. And that eye was fucked. It was
right. In my opinion, it was right of Daniel
Dubois to step out of that Joe Joyce fight. There
was no reason to keep taking damage to that eye.
Yeah. I mean, it's hard to tell because the fact
is, you know, so many injuries are invisible.
You know, you don't really know until a fight
finishes to see what condition a fighter is in.
And I think about Shigeyoka a lot in this instance,
too, because, you know... Well, that was the
JBC. He should have never been able to fight
again. Or not within 10 months of a fucking skull
fracture. That's ridiculous. Against the same
guy? Yeah, it was crazy. There was a lot going
on there. but on top of that you know like i
thought in terms of his boxing and his body language
you know he looked like he was good that last
two rounds and i was like yeah oh no yeah in
that fight and you would never have told you
would never have known but given his medical
history he shouldn't have been in that fight
at that time oh not at all i'm just using it
as an example to show like sometimes you have
absolutely no idea when there's like I really
don't blame Anaguchi's corner. There needs to
be a lot more normalization of having fights
stopped for medical reasons. But that's my take
on the sport. I understand that it's the brutality
that attracts people to it. But there's also
a skill level in boxing that can also be emphasized.
But yeah, it's definitely something. Anyways,
I can see we're running way over time. You want
to know what was also something? What was else?
It was Manny Pacquiao getting a draw with Mario
Barrios. Jesus. My God. Imagine that. A draw
in 2025. I really thought he won that. I really
thought he won that, man. A lot of people do.
Barrios was way too nice, though. I'm not defending
the draw or saying it shouldn't have been a draw,
but Manny would take a body shot, get hurt, step
back, and do the schoolyard like, oh, give me
a second. And Barrios did. And the ref was like,
what the fuck are you doing? There were multiple
times the ref looked at him and was like, you
guys can still punch. Why are you stopping? The
punches aren't on the script. I really think
a disrespectful, not even disrespectful, but
just like a Barrios. Yeah, that Barrios could
have stopped Manny to the body easy. Barrios
was giving him too much respect. But Barrios
was getting fucking clipped by a 47 -year -old.
The fuck? He was. He was, man. Manny showed up,
man. Like, he was moving. That was what impressed
me the most. He was moving, and he was quick
with it, you know? Like, he had everything. I
talked a whole bunch of shit after seeing Manny
in that exhibition against the kickboxer, and
I do have to take that back. Manny looked better.
100 % exact same with me as well. I did not think
he had that in him, but look. Am I surprised
that I felt wrong? Not that much at all. Because
you look at his career and his history with fighting
and with his sport. Yeah. You know, some things
just stay. It's that saying that class is permanent.
And Manny's on all the pins in the world. Nobody's
actually testing. The great equalizer. Nobody's
testing Manny. Sample. But overcoming age. That
is not drugs. That is not PEDs. That is prime
Filipino greatness. Okay. Sure. He does have
the Filipino calves, Gene. Manny's legs are fucking
massive. He's awesome, man. To be able to do
that. Can you imagine how many people's uncles
would have started shadowboxing in the room thinking
that they're next? Yeah, no, I do get the storyline
of it and everything else, but Mario Barrios
should have won that fight and sent Pacquiao
home. He really should have, especially even
if he didn't even have to pull out a vintage
performance or anything. If he just fought the
way he fought against Ramos, he probably could
get it done. If he just hadn't paused every time
Manny took a step back and touched his stomach
and was like, ugh. Yeah. Like, that's fucking
bullshit that people don't even do in schoolyard
fights. Like, come on, Barry. His corner was
yelling at him so much about that. He probably
just didn't want to get baited by anything. I
guess. He's like, oh, I'm not falling for this,
you know? Hmm. That was garbage. All around,
that was garbage. Manny Pacquiao still shouldn't
be fighting for titles. He should not be ranked
number nine in the fucking rankings. If I was
Essamon, I would be pissed. Like, I would be
so fucking angry. Essamon kills Pacquiao. Like,
I like Pacquiao and everything, but Essamon fucking
kills him. Decau Essiman? Yeah! He's ranked number
10 and Manny Pacquiao's ranked number 9. In where?
Um... Shit, which... Which one is that? Is that...
The Ring, maybe? I wasn't... It was... I know
I'm not making this up because I thought it was
fucking ridiculous, but I don't know which...
Which... belt does Barrios have? Maybe it's the
WBC then. Let me check. WBC... No. Must be ring.
Wait, no. I'm at the wrong weight class. Give
me a second. Might just be kind of stupid. No,
it's the ring. Pacquiao's ranked number 9 by
the ring. Essamon's number 10. And then Pacquiao's
not on anyone else's rankings. Is that correct?
Interesting. Well, he did say he was going to
keep fighting. I would have imagined that they
would put him into the rankings somewhere. Nobody
else has him in the rankings on Fox Live. Interesting.
But The Ring has him at number nine. Barrios
is eight. Pacquiao's 9, Essamon is 10. And if
I was Essamon, I would be fucking pissed. Because
Ekow Essamon destroys Pacquiao in a fight. I
think there's a lot of cases with the rankings
of that where I see guys where I think they'd
beat someone that's above them. Yeah. But this
one's just worse than others. All right. Let's
fucking keep it rolling because, like, I don't
know. I feel like Mario Party is just going to
be an all -time long episode. I'll have to...
This is a Lin -length episode. Moving up. Join
the Patreon to see what was cut. Yeah. Fucking
Lawrence of Koli versus Kevin Lorena. That little
dead air was more time than that fight deserves.
Lawrence of Koli. I said I reserve the use of
this term. Oleksandr Usyk is fucking special.
KO5 over Daniel Dubois to reunify the division.
This is a Mount Rushmore of heavyweight boxing
that we're looking at. I was defending that this
was going to be Usyk's hardest fight. It was
not. Yeah. At all. I expected better from Daniel
Dubois. I really did. I thought he was improved.
Yep. But now you're talking about that. There
has been some out of ring controversy around
this fight. Did you guys hear about that? I did
not. The potty? Yeah, yeah, Dubois was apparently
partying the night before, and a bunch of, like,
not good, like, nothing super crazy. It's not
like he is suspected of drug dealing or prostitution
or any of that stuff, but he was, like, partying
real late, and he showed up at the venue really
late, like he was only there an hour before the
fight or something crazy. Had to get extra sleep.
Getting back on track. Usyk is just fucking amazing.
Usyk did Usyk stuff. Just like I said Usyk would
do. Nobody's beating the Ukrainian with the gap
to smile. Like, it's crazy. He is so good. Just
for someone his size and with his pedigree. to
have come from the weight divisions that he has,
to have had the success he has as an amateur
as well, is just incredible. And that's just
going through, you know, his resume and how he
got here. That's not even talking about the fundamentals
of how he is as a boxer, which is just incredible
as well. You know, his movement, his understanding
of range. It just doesn't seem to matter who
they put in front of him stylistically. He just
keeps finding answers. That's what's so impressive
to me. Which was basically my analysis before
this fight. Usyk is going to do Usyk things.
That's what happened. All right. So wherever
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Jacob that you just heard, we know him from Discord,
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And, yeah, lvx .be slash discord. All right,
going to take a short break, and when we're back,
some fucking news and rumors and shit. All right.
I have so much news and rumors, Leo. It's crazy.
This is a lot. Yeah, we don't have to talk about
all of it. Yeah, just a little bit. Josh Taylor
retires, citing eye problems. That's, um... Yeah,
I don't know how much I believe the eye problems,
really, but I think Josh Taylor retiring is probably
good timing. I'm trying to think of a funny new
one. Like, rest in piss, you won't be missed.
I don't know. He's not that good. Rest in luck,
I don't give a fuck. I don't know. I think that's
the best I can do for the time being. Go drown
in a bog, you hog. Scottish bogs. I don't know.
On the... I don't know if... Whatever. I bungled
this transition here. Bad segue. We lost Jacob
and we fell apart. That's what makes a good segue
is that I say it's a bad one. Yeah. On the topic
of crash outs, as if you do or do not know, the
Kameda clan, for one, they're crashing out. Has
crashed the fuck out. It's been a little crazy.
What were they saying? Okay, so this all started
a couple days ago. Vom on the Discord is on Twitter,
and I'm an Instagram whore. The Kamedas don't
have Instagram, so I didn't hear about any of
this. But they have sued the JBC for discrimination
against their fighters. Some sort of like, you're
discriminating for no reason. I forget which
exact fighter it was about. But they lost their
shit during the... Who did Higa fight? Vasquez?
Antonio Vargas. Vargas, sorry. Yeah, so during
the Vargas -Higa card, the Kamedas were actively
crashing out on Twitter. saying they were suing
the JBC and all this stuff. And they did list
a specific fight and a fighter that the JBC was
blocking for what they call discriminatory reasons.
But then after that, somebody else, all in Japanese,
was like, maybe this isn't the time. Like, maybe
have your crash out after the big international
fight that everybody is watching. And the Kamedas
straight up just told them to fuck off. That
was the whole tweet. They replied, fuck you,
fuck off. And then they signed Casamero. John
Riel Casamero. I don't know what the fuck they're
doing. They're just making everything worse.
But the absolute worst news to me personally
is that they also signed Kenneth Lover, who is
the Filipino prospect I really like. And he should
not be signing with the Kamedas. He should sign
with someone so much better. He deserves a good
fucking promotion. And, like, the Kamedas are
full crash out. Fuck the JBC. We're suing you.
We're going to have... fights in kazakhstan and
like we're going international which is i guess
whatever sure like yeah i i am sure the jbc is
biased against kamada fighters like i do not
doubt that yeah i don't either but a public fucking
crash out and signing casamero is not the response
you should be having guys what the fuck like
It's very much Japanese boxing politics drama,
but this is drama enough that everyone is going
to enjoy it if they look into it. Speaking of
crash outs, the guy who beat Galalia Fi gets
a probation rematch ordered. PED he popped for
was an over -the -counter energy supplement.
So just some shit you get at a GNC or whatever
shop is near you. Yeah. Wow. He failed for PEDs
in his previous fight. This is the rumors and
news. So I got to look up the exact date. So
this is Francisco Rodriguez Jr. He... Okay. He
beat Josue Morales. Or, sorry. Yeah, he beat
him, but it was turned to a no contest by the
Texas Commission on... Oh, I misread this when
I was making the news. It says no contest by
the Texas Commission on... January 6th. Because
of PEDs. But then they let him fight Galal Yafai.
In Texas? Where he... No, Yafai was in... UK?
The UK. Yeah. But they let him fight Yafai and
from what Eddie Hearn says, he had no idea. that
Rodriguez had popped in his previous test. So,
he popped for PEDS in a fight, they didn't tell
the other commission, and then he pops for PEDS
again. Yeah, well, Texas... That's pretty shit.
...over a Mexican fighter, and then fighting
in the UK, no surprise it slipped through the
cracks. But what was the PD from the previous
fight? Is that known? It probably is. I don't
know if I checked that. Because I'm wondering
if it's the same over -the -counter thing. How
do you spell Francisco? Rodriguez, Texas, PDs.
See what this gets me. So the thing is, is I
don't know if anybody knew about this. Like,
I don't know if it was public knowledge before
the... Before the fight. Before the Yafai fight.
Yeah. But if it wasn't, it should be. Okay. Francisco
Rodriguez failed his drug test on December 15th,
2024 and was put on a 90 -day suspension and
was assessed a $500 administrative fine. by the
Texas Combative Sports Program. There is no world
governing body in boxing and the Texas Commission
are not required to inform other commissions
of the decision. This article doesn't say what
he actually popped for in Texas. But, I mean,
I don't think it really matters at this point.
Or does it? What I was thinking was, if it's
the same supplement that got him popped the first
time, then okay. Why would he still be taking
it, though? No, not okay. Then you know that
you're going to pop and you stop taking it. Like,
that's worse, isn't it? What I'm saying is, what
if he popped for a steroid the first time? It
would make me more skeptical of this OTC thing.
No, that's a masking agent. is what i'm saying
but i steroids popping twice for an energy supplement
popping twice in a row for the same thing is
i would argue worse you think uh i don't know
yeah i was just like you've already gotten caught
doing something like stop doing it like your
second dui is worse than your first one if you
get charged I mean, this is a bad analogy, but
if you get charged with, you know, like, a DUI
and then driving without a license... Because
you had a DUI. Yeah. Yeah. All right, well, I
was just thinking about steroids and how they
mixed into the conversation. Yeah, but if you
get caught for steroids once, at least change
the steroids. Like, come on. Yeah, and that's
what the OTC thing could be, is a... something
to mask it or like a diuretic yeah yeah i don't
know i can't i can't find everything that came
up was this new one but i do think it's a little
ridiculous that he popped in texas and uh the
uk had no way to check if that like it feels
like the boxing commissions should talk a little
more I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Like,
if you pop in Texas, the UK should know. And
if you pop in Nevada, like, Mexico should know.
I don't know. Instead of forum shopping? Yeah,
instead of, like, pulling a Connor Ben or whatever.
Kangaroo Court? Yeah. Oh, man. Well, we went
for a while on the, uh... The damn... And because
of that, we're going to have to call it here.
Okay. I think it actually works out nicely because
based on time, we got a lot of good chatter going.
And there's nothing coming up. There's just fucking
nothing on the horizon. Some of these news and
rumors fit well with next podcast anyways. Fun.
If you want to know what the other news and rumors
are, tune in next week. All right. Let me do
the plug thing. You've been listening to Boxing
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We got new ads. Oh, did we? They're not very
good. That's exciting. Oh. They're not ones.
What's wrong with them? It's not product testimonials
from me anymore. Oh. Okay. It's automated shit.
Man, some of it, like one of them was for a law
firm. Another one was for power tools. Like,
the fuck is this? Well, if you don't want to
hear those, you're going to have to go to Patreon.
You have to go to Patreon. God damn, because
they're fucking rough. We gots to get paid. Fair
enough, but Leo, you... I was going to say, you
have to get paid for your equipment and shit.
Yeah, that's kind of what it is. So if you don't
want to hear those, Patreon. Shit. Sucks to suck,
dog. Yeah. Parting words. I just said mine. Sucks
to suck? No, if you don't want those law firm
ads or fucking power tools or whatever other...
nonsense they have in the rotation yeah you're
gonna have to go to patreon sorry my parting
words well i actually have two parting unrelated
things i went to ryzen yeah god damn it was so
much fun the production value at ryzen was crazy
it was at that sinema arena yeah which is made
for concerts and shit The pyrotechnics, the visuals,
everything was on point. It was great. The backstory
videos were also great. There were 18 fights,
19 fights, I think. It was a fucking long day.
All that was great, except I don't like the fights
as much as boxing. So everything was great, except
the actual fights. How did your Japanese practice?
pan out um no one engaged even when you like
asked in proper japanese like who is this person
and they're like foreigner well they were polite
but also clearly not interested in talking with
me so i i asked a question a direct question
and they answered but made it very clear they
didn't want me to talk to them again so i didn't
um So that was fine. Also, the fucking food sold
out so fast. Wow. I waited in line for an hour
to get beer and chicken and fries. And they sold
out of chicken and fries two people ahead of
me. Wow. So then I waited in line for a half
hour again. And when I got to the front, they
also had no food. So I drank five beer and ate
no food. uh fight started at 11 a .m and they
ended at 10 p .m so you had a marathon of fucking
fights of fucking no food was my problem but
yes yeah the it was fun i'm glad i went i probably
wouldn't go by myself again if i had a friend
who wanted to go i would definitely be down but
there was a couple crazy call -outs in the ring
or like okay my two favorite ryzen gossip i guess
so there's the guy who's a huge simp for the
maid cafe lady or i don't think it's a maid cafe
but like the the hostess lady Do you know who
I'm talking about, Leo? Yeah, I know who you're
talking about. Yeah, man. Yeah, so he was fighting
a dad with two kids, and the dad's video was
his kids crying the last time he lost. And I
was cheering for the dad, and he won the first
two rounds very clearly, and then got knocked
the fuck out in the third round. I don't care
if this guy impresses the lady he's paying money
to talk to him because she's going to talk to
him again later anyways. As long as he pays money,
she's there. So I was cheering against him. And
the dad brought his kids in and he gave his retirement
speech and the kids were crying in the ring again.
That made me really sad. There was a fighter
whose whole background video was pachinko, and
he walked out to pachinko music and the bonus
videos of his favorite pachinko games. There
was a different guy who his whole thing was hunting,
so it was him hunting and butchering deer and
shit and then eating them as part of his training.
Wow. Yeah, I thought that was kind of fun, actually.
I like hunting. And then my favorite thing that
happened was there was a guy came into the ring
for a call out and he was wearing a super nice
kimono, but he didn't have it on properly. He
had the one arm out so that like half of it draped
off him, kind of like a toga. And then you could
see all his Yakuza tattoos. Oh shit. The funniest
part was the guy he was calling out was in a
white dress shirt and black slacks with a black
ball cap and looked like a fucking middle school
baseball coach. It was great. I loved all of
it. But the fucking tension was there. They kept
showing him on the screen. I booed three times.
So, fuck tension. Yes, it's better when things
are more relaxed. I hate him so much. But my
actual parting words, and I know this is going
too long, but tomorrow I get to meet Seiya Tsutsumi.
Party. Yeah, there's a punch burger. meetup at
a burger joint that he likes so he is a waiter
for one day at i think it's called jessica seven
it's either jessica or jennifer seven um is the
name of the restaurant and uh yeah so i'm gonna
go and i'm gonna fangirl out and try not to embarrass
myself too badly but my goals are an autograph
and a picture together what are you gonna get
him to sign uh i am gonna take the the big banner
i think that'll be fun and i want to see his
reaction to that yeah yeah i want to see what
he says to that too and uh then i am also just
gonna take a book where i collect all the free
stamps you can get around japan Because I think
his autograph in that book would be a really
good souvenir as well. So if I can only get one
signature, it'll be on the banner. But if he'll
sign two things, I'm going to get him to sign
both. I think he will. I think he'll sign both
for you. He probably will. Yeah, I this is very
low key. Like you don't need a reservation or
anything. It's not super well advertised. He's
been putting up posts on Instagram is as far
as I can tell it. I'm so excited. Yeah, I'm so
excited. I'm gonna make an ass of myself. I've
been practicing my Japanese all week and I'm
gonna get flustered and fuck it up and just speak
English by accident. and then he'll give you
like a simpering sort of smile sign your thing
and then like chibi you along yeah yeah yeah
i i won't fuck up the japanese for picture because
because that's easy yeah that would be cool um
just thank you so much for having me i really
enjoyed talking to you guys and hopefully i find
the time in between sparring and everything to
pop on some other time Yeah. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for having me on. It was really
cool. See you guys. Bye. All right. That's it
for this edition of fucking Boxing Before Dark.
My batteries are getting low. It's so long, guys.
We'll see how much of this survives the cutting
room floor. All right. We're out of here. Bye.