WEBVTT

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Welcome to the GTP show. I am your host Dylan

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and I'm with my co -host as always. I'm Jason.

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That's right. He's Jason. I'm Dylan. This is

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what we do. We're totally on schedule and we're

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not forgetting to do things. This is awesome.

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Look at that. Three weeks strong. Ain't nobody

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going to stop us now unless God decides we're

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done. But that's the point. Something else is

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going on at that point. yeah you know who knows

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who knows so this week um i mean jason you want

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to get into the topic i mean like you know what

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is the title of this segment because you always

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you say it somewhere eloquently more than i can

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you know hmm i i think a title i don't know before

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this episode is finalized i don't know what the

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title is going to be but it's going to be um

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regarding biblical cool canon why and how yeah

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okay so like we're talking about books that are

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canon books that aren't canon why they aren't

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there what was the problem you know there's some

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books that were problematic so they were removed

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or didn't line up necessarily um right so like

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go ahead uh well we had a comment from someone

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saying like um They were saying, well, the old

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Testament, you know, Protestants say there's

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39 books. Catholics say there's 46 Orthodox say

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there's 51 Ethiopian Christians say there's 81.

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Did, did Christians just take books out that

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didn't line up or like, is it, is it just the

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most popular books is what's the Bible? Like

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what is the Bible? How did it become the Bible?

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And what are we talking about in the long run?

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Yeah. And that's going to be a little bit more

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of a history. I mean, there's supposed to be

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some history into this episode. I mean, the first

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thing I think of, too, like we mentioned it last

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episode, the tail end, was Martin Luther and

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the Reformation of the Catholic Church, where,

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you know, then there were things that were taken

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out for the general public because, you know,

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with the fluidity of the Bible and all things

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like that. Like, you know, removing the book

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of Enoch, the last final chapter of Daniel, the

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gospel of Thomas, things like that were removed

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for certain reasons. So we're going to dive a

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little bit into that. We may actually even do

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like a part two on this later on, because there's

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a lot I feel like we can fit in that we won't

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be able to fit in actually in this episode. Yeah,

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that's a shoot. This is a topic I've studied.

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hardcore so i'm ready for it yeah and i feel

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like it's a one of those that's a very highly

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debated and hot topic thing uh with i mean just

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believers in general it's like well you know

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because you have people that you know some well

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i don't say branches of christianity because

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i wouldn't call it that added to this you know

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added to the bible Then there's the fact that

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some of them kept books, which is fine, but it's

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adding the books, like with the Mormons, adding

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the whole book of Mormon. Sorry, I misspoke there.

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Not really. I think of the book as a Morano.

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It's one of the books. I always say that. So

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just things like that where people added, and

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we've talked about that too a little bit, and

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then there's, you know, like with the Catholics,

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they have the book, I believe they kept the book

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of Enoch, and they have some other things in

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there too that they kept. So, I mean, there's

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a lot you went into. First thing I always think

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about is the book of Enoch. I mean, that talks

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about the whole structure of heaven and all that

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stuff, you know, that thing, but it was a late

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composition. And there's inconsistencies, you

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know, in the book, like angels falling and, you

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know, Nephilums and, you know, and then the whole,

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there's not a lot of recognition for the book.

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And it's not really, it doesn't really flow with

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the, the whole, the flow of the whole Bible.

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I mean, not so that, you know, like the Jewish,

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it's not even included in the Jewish, you know,

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not the Pentateuch, but the Torah. It's not even

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recognized by that. It's basically like a set

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of stories. But it's not like official, you know.

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And there's also concerns with the authorship,

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the consistencies, you know, in developing, you

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know, with the Jewish. It does a lot of inconsistencies

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with that book. So, I mean, it has to be taken

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with a grain of, you know, a grain of salt. But,

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I mean, it's got interesting stuff in it, not

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to say, like, the hierarchies of angels and stuff,

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but it's also, again, it's like, it's not 100

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% positive that this is, you know, legit. So,

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you have to guard your heart and have wisdom

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when going into this. So, I'll add two things.

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First, Well, we need to understand the term canon,

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which came from the Greek word canon, which means

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to rule or measuring stick. It refers to the

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collection of books recognized as divinely inspired

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and authoritative for faith and practice. The

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canon was not instantly decided but emerged over

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time through Jewish tradition, early Christian

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use, councils, and debates over the first 500,

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600 years. So if we're looking at Book of Enoch,

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for example, this is something that I've greatly

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debated with people about regarding it. Because

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specifically of the book of Enoch, a lot of times

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people who say a book of Enoch is something that

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should have been in the Bible because Jude and

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Jude 1, 14 to 15, it refers and directly quotes

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Enoch 1, 9. But quoting does not equal canonizing

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when it comes to scripture. Because Paul actually

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also quoted pagan poets in Acts 17 .28 and Titus

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1 .12 without endorsing their works as scripture.

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Jude likely used Enoch as respected Jewish tradition,

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not as authoritative text. Now, I know some people

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are like, well, that's likely, but it could be,

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etc. So, first off, there's a lot of, like you

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mentioned, there's a lot of questions about authorship

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and dating, as well as theological concerns.

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It's also known as pseudepigraphal, which means

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it's though attributed to Enoch from Genesis

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524. If you want to know Enoch, scholars will

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consistently agree is written around third to

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first century BC. There is no apostolic connection

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whatsoever because unlike the New Testament books,

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for example, it couldn't be tied back to Moses,

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the prophets or Jesus apostles in any given way.

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Exactly. And I believe it was written. after

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Malachi, if I'm correct. I want to say, which

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is the last book of the Bible. All right. Right.

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That's where it's like Malachi. What did I say?

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I don't even know. Yeah. Malachi. Yeah. You said

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it right. It's just, there was no more. God was

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not speaking to the people anymore. There was

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no more books to be written until the receiving

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of Jesus Christ. That was the next step. so that's

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why I mean like two words that's where it throws

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in a lot of that where I'm saying the questioning

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of it because of how it was written late it's

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like well you know it kind of goes the idea of

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did they meet the cutoff or was it past the cutoff

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time that's why it's a questionable book and

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like you said too the other issues that you know

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it has yeah the only thing too that makes me

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interested is too is like you know it talks about

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enoch uh he didn't die how he was just like uh

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no which one is it elijah eliza elijah elijah

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you know how he was picked up in a cherry and

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taken yeah and that's you know they said enoch

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is the same thing he was basically you know beam

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me up scotty um you know and that goes the end

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time prophecy too with the two people that you

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know men that would be there in israel preaching

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and who says that those aren't those two guys

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but that's a that's a theory you have to get

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it all on itself and there's no lividity you

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know or yeah yeah right i will mention i will

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mention because i said it a little bit earlier

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but the protestant canon catholic canon orthodox

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and ethiopian canon those are the most common

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canons when it comes to the old testament Protestant,

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if you don't know, because this is obviously,

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like I said, it's 39, 46, 51 and 81 books. Why

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the variable? Well, Protestant canon actually

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follows the Hebrew Masoretic text aligned with

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the Jewish Tanakh, though ordered differently

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than what they do. It rejects the Deuterocanonical

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books, which is like Tobit and Maccabees as non

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-inspired. The Catholics, they actually include

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the Deuterocanical books affirmed at the Council

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of Trent, which was actually in 1546 in response

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to Protestant rejection. And these books were

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part of the Greek Septuagint, which is widely

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used by early Christians, which Greek Septuagint

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is LXX. So Orthodox canon, they include additional

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books like Esdras and the Maccabees and Psalms

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151. And they take that from the broader Septuagint

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tradition, which there was a growth of that tradition.

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Ethiopian canon, well, they include Enoch, Jubilee,

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other texts because of tradition, not because

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of authoritative understanding of what scripture

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is. They took it as this is tradition for us

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to include these. just like Hebrew tradition

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or Jewish tradition in that sense was to understand

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and read these extra readings. They did not take

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it as scripture, as authoritative scripture.

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They took it as tradition. So Ethiopian canon,

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for example, they take those as tradition. And

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that's what their Bible is based upon is a lot

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of scripture and tradition, both considering

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it's worthwhile. The good news is New Testament

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wise, New Testament canon was largely settled.

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by the fourth century. I mean, um, it was based

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upon the four gospels, acts, Paul's letters,

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most general epistles, a few books like revelation,

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Hebrews, James, second Peter were disputed early,

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but they've been accepted. Um, mostly due to

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like, if you ever look into it, the moratorium

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fragments, which came out of the second century

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or, and then, uh, Athanasius Easter letter in

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three 67 AD, all kind of really closely resemble

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today's new Testament and what we have. I didn't

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mean to hijack. I do that a lot. No, that's a

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good point. And it's kind of like, put it that

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way, as Christians, we don't have to celebrate

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Christmas. It's a tradition. Nowhere in the Bible

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does it talk about celebrating Christmas. I was

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just thinking that when you're talking about

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the Ethiopians for traditional, it's a tradition

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that we have now that, you know, Yeah, we, you

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know, do gifts, service, and Jesus, but it's

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nothing in biblical sense where it says this

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is what you must do. That's what I was thinking,

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you know. I know the kids would be upset about

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that, you know. Oh, man. Gifts. You know, I would

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be upset, too, because how am I going to get

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my socks and underwear? and stuff like that yeah

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there is those books and stuff and it's more

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traditional to keep you know and have record

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of this is what we do like with the maccabees

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and stuff like that are important historical

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figures in you know not necessarily in scripture

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but in the culture itself i think there's some

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more cultural things like you know and it's different

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with everywhere you're at like look at you take

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it now still Ethiopian Christians that are in

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Ethiopia right now compared to Christians like

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us that are in the States. Completely different

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walks we have. Same thing with us here and those

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who are in the Middle East. You're not worried

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about some Islamic person going like, I'm going

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to kill you. We don't really live in fear of

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that here. Right. True. You know, we don't worry

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about bombings constantly happening. And we're

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like, for me, it's like, oh, is that an earthquake?

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Okay. A little side note. It does talk about

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that, too, that, what is it, when God was upset

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with the people, or the believers, the earth

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shaked, something like that. I think it was Paul.

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Was it Paul? That's why the angel came down and

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shook the earth, because he was upset. Something

00:14:01.299 --> 00:14:05.080
like that. You're talking about... What's that

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verse? Are you talking... I know Jesus' death

00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:13.879
there was, right? Yeah. You saw that in Psalms

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18, it talks about the earth shakes, but that's

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talking about his glory kind of thing. Yeah.

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The foundations of the mountains trembled and

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they were shaken because he burned with anger.

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That's Psalms 18. Okay, so that's Psalms 18.

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Yeah, that's what I was talking about. I was

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reading songs. The daily songs they give you.

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It's a song for every day. And I was thinking

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to myself, hmm, explains there's a lot of earthquakes

00:14:39.220 --> 00:14:45.080
here in California. Jeez. I will say, just to

00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:47.179
mention the Christmas thing, I mean, yeah, it's

00:14:47.179 --> 00:14:48.919
tradition. I know we're not going to get into

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Christmas, but Christmas is Christus Missus,

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which means Christ's Mass. And if you don't know

00:14:56.379 --> 00:14:59.159
the historical context of this, is that actually

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We understood it from celebrating Jesus' birth

00:15:02.649 --> 00:15:07.730
all the way back to 336 A .D., like that early

00:15:07.730 --> 00:15:12.110
within the Christian churches and Christian celebrations.

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And Rome actually would formally observe it on

00:15:16.070 --> 00:15:20.970
December 25th and 336 A .D. In order to get rid

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of the winter salsa celebration when more likely

00:15:24.289 --> 00:15:28.149
he was born in spring, the time of his death.

00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:33.399
It's interesting because like like winter solstice

00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:36.340
was close by, but it wasn't because December

00:15:36.340 --> 00:15:40.019
25th was not the pagan holiday. No, it was it

00:15:40.019 --> 00:15:42.539
was close, but it wasn't it. And it wasn't because

00:15:42.539 --> 00:15:47.620
of that. They choose it because at the time,

00:15:47.620 --> 00:15:50.960
the understanding was Jesus birth was this time

00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:54.879
frame. And so or they understood it because of

00:15:54.879 --> 00:15:58.750
scripture saying that. Mary was pregnant and

00:15:58.750 --> 00:16:00.750
this is this time frame and then they took that

00:16:00.750 --> 00:16:03.029
and added months to it said okay so that puts

00:16:03.029 --> 00:16:05.230
it around December and it was just understood

00:16:05.230 --> 00:16:07.509
around December 25th it was actually because

00:16:07.509 --> 00:16:12.750
they did math and it was just chosen by early

00:16:12.750 --> 00:16:16.289
Christians they're telling me that there's actually

00:16:16.289 --> 00:16:18.669
factual backing up that it was actually during

00:16:18.669 --> 00:16:24.149
the time that it is what yeah it was just it

00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:26.779
it was a coincidence that there was pagan festivals.

00:16:27.100 --> 00:16:30.200
Um, the Bible doesn't really specify, but in

00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:32.340
the timeframe that that was there, they were

00:16:32.340 --> 00:16:34.259
doing math and trying to figure it out so that

00:16:34.259 --> 00:16:37.200
they can add more traditions to remind themselves

00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:39.419
of who Christ is so that no one would forget.

00:16:39.840 --> 00:16:43.039
That was the whole point of traditions and, um,

00:16:43.159 --> 00:16:46.679
uh, different things, religious activities that

00:16:46.679 --> 00:16:49.580
they did and still do today is because they do

00:16:49.580 --> 00:16:53.100
it to remember Christ teaching and Christ message,

00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:56.350
et cetera. So it was really important to understand

00:16:56.350 --> 00:17:00.590
that these were not to earn salvation or to be

00:17:00.590 --> 00:17:03.269
more righteous, but to remind yourself and to

00:17:03.269 --> 00:17:06.589
keep your mind focused on God and centered around

00:17:06.589 --> 00:17:14.450
God. So that was important. But yeah, it is.

00:17:14.569 --> 00:17:17.069
There are reasons why there are some popular

00:17:17.069 --> 00:17:18.750
books that are not in canon. Like you mentioned

00:17:18.750 --> 00:17:21.829
Book of Enoch, Shepherd of Hermas. That was a

00:17:21.829 --> 00:17:27.619
popular one. The Dache was a popular one. Gospel

00:17:27.619 --> 00:17:29.359
of Thomas, which you mentioned as well. They

00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.740
were all widely read. It was more of a Gnostic

00:17:32.740 --> 00:17:35.500
gospel, though. Well, yeah. They were ultimately

00:17:35.500 --> 00:17:38.779
excluded because three reasons. Apostolic connection.

00:17:39.140 --> 00:17:42.049
They lacked clear apostolic authority. authorship

00:17:42.049 --> 00:17:45.029
and were written too late orthodoxy which their

00:17:45.029 --> 00:17:47.349
theology conflicted with core christian teachings

00:17:47.349 --> 00:17:51.029
so there were gnostic texts and usage while they

00:17:51.029 --> 00:17:53.849
were popular they weren't universally read in

00:17:53.849 --> 00:17:56.670
worship or cited as scripture by major church

00:17:56.670 --> 00:18:00.970
fathers they were there as uh coming from a hebrew

00:18:00.970 --> 00:18:04.950
tradition of books and works just like if you

00:18:04.950 --> 00:18:07.930
and me are as christians go and pick up a book

00:18:07.930 --> 00:18:11.309
at our local church that says like heaven bound

00:18:11.309 --> 00:18:13.789
or something like that. And we read it. We don't

00:18:13.789 --> 00:18:17.170
take that as scripture. It's good to read, to

00:18:17.170 --> 00:18:21.769
have more knowledge and more insight, but it's

00:18:21.769 --> 00:18:24.869
not there as authoritative scripture. And that's

00:18:24.869 --> 00:18:27.049
what people need to understand is that a lot

00:18:27.049 --> 00:18:31.289
of Jewish tradition had that as a thing that

00:18:31.289 --> 00:18:34.289
was important, which is why you see. That from

00:18:34.289 --> 00:18:36.650
the Ethiopian canon, for example, where they're

00:18:36.650 --> 00:18:38.589
like, look, this is good to read. You should

00:18:38.589 --> 00:18:42.150
read it. And they just said this is like just

00:18:42.150 --> 00:18:44.410
traditionally accepted as something you should

00:18:44.410 --> 00:18:48.509
read, not as authoritative, but in addition to.

00:18:49.930 --> 00:18:52.369
So I mean, it is a lot of things like the late

00:18:52.369 --> 00:18:56.269
writing of Thomas. There's no narrative. The

00:18:56.269 --> 00:19:02.720
lack there's no like. Credibility to it. in a

00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:07.380
sense. There's, you know, the gospel, it's not

00:19:07.380 --> 00:19:10.539
considered a reliable source because it's a late

00:19:10.539 --> 00:19:12.880
date, and then it's Gnostic origins, and there's

00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:14.900
a lack of a narrative. There's just so many things.

00:19:15.420 --> 00:19:19.140
And plus that, his doctrine, like, contradicts,

00:19:19.140 --> 00:19:23.799
like, the divinity, you know, the divine nature

00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:27.180
of his relationship with God. It's one of those

00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:28.660
things, like, you read it, and it's like, ah,

00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:34.259
this doesn't... You know, like, it does contain

00:19:34.259 --> 00:19:37.000
some of the same teachings, like, some things,

00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:40.440
but it's more like, like, Jesus said this. Jesus

00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:43.460
said this. Jesus said this. It's not like anything

00:19:43.460 --> 00:19:46.839
that actually has any, like, there's no backbone

00:19:46.839 --> 00:19:51.720
to it. And that's more the issue. Yeah. Well,

00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:55.809
there's no meat. There's no like, hey, we were

00:19:55.809 --> 00:19:58.289
in this city at this time. This was the leader.

00:19:58.390 --> 00:20:00.170
This is what was going on. This is the people

00:20:00.170 --> 00:20:02.170
that were around him. This is us talking and

00:20:02.170 --> 00:20:04.630
this is what he said. It was literally like...

00:20:04.630 --> 00:20:08.450
Oh, he said this at one point. He also said this

00:20:08.450 --> 00:20:10.549
at one point. He ordered a cheese pizza. He ordered

00:20:10.549 --> 00:20:17.109
it on a Monday. Okay. Jason likes to eat spicy

00:20:17.109 --> 00:20:22.230
things. I gave him a spicy chicken nugget one

00:20:22.230 --> 00:20:27.539
time. oh you did yeah i yeah he really liked

00:20:27.539 --> 00:20:32.460
it yeah it's like oh okay you know but what date

00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:35.559
was that when was that i mean i could probably

00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:38.279
look up and find it but like there's if i just

00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:40.640
say that there's no structural backing to that

00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:43.539
plus jason does not explain see he can't do spicy

00:20:43.539 --> 00:20:48.680
right at least no no i've definitely been given

00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:53.559
spicy yeah i've been given spicy I'm over here

00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:57.000
going like, like you say, Mongolian. Yeah, that's

00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:00.960
true. 2 .5 million on Google. Let's go for it.

00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:09.740
I'm going to hurt later. So I will say with that

00:21:09.740 --> 00:21:12.440
in general, I think it's important to understand

00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:18.079
that Protestant canon came from the Hebrew Masoretic

00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:24.049
text with orthodox and catholic um coming more

00:21:24.049 --> 00:21:27.109
influenced with the greek septuagint which was

00:21:27.109 --> 00:21:30.109
translated translated third and second bc for

00:21:30.109 --> 00:21:32.769
the old testament and it was the bible of the

00:21:32.769 --> 00:21:36.430
early church and its broader canon shaped later

00:21:36.430 --> 00:21:39.349
divisions obviously creating multiple branches

00:21:39.349 --> 00:21:44.849
of this um those greek septuagint included books

00:21:44.849 --> 00:21:48.769
like tobit wisdom soraks baruch and maccabees

00:21:49.339 --> 00:21:51.779
and they were written in Greek or preserved only

00:21:51.779 --> 00:21:54.960
in Greek, not Hebrew. Early Christians like Paul

00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:57.440
and some church fathers frequently quoted these

00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:02.579
books. So with Catholics and Orthodox, they accept

00:22:02.579 --> 00:22:05.460
them because the New Testament alludes to them.

00:22:05.740 --> 00:22:10.799
In Hebrews 11 .35 mirrors 2 Maccabee 7, wisdom

00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:14.579
influenced Paul's theology. The Council of Carthage,

00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:18.059
actually in 397, actually formally affirmed.

00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:22.759
The Greek Septuagint -based canon, later solidified

00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:27.119
by the Council of Trent in 1546. Orthodox tradition,

00:22:27.539 --> 00:22:30.180
like the Eastern churches, accepted additional

00:22:30.180 --> 00:22:33.779
books like 3rd Maccabees and Psalms 151 because

00:22:33.779 --> 00:22:36.839
based on local Greek Septuagint manuscripts.

00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:42.619
For the Protestant rejection, you had Jerome's

00:22:42.619 --> 00:22:45.339
influence, which his Latin Vulgate in the fourth

00:22:45.339 --> 00:22:47.960
century distinguished between Hebrew canonical

00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:51.500
books and Greek ecclesiastical books, which was

00:22:51.500 --> 00:22:55.559
the deuterocanical ones. So the reformation,

00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:58.220
which you hear a lot, you hear Baptist reformed

00:22:58.220 --> 00:23:01.339
or reformed Christian, reformed Protestant, reformed

00:23:01.339 --> 00:23:04.480
doctrine, reformed whatever. Protestants aligned

00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:07.160
with Jerome's Hebrew -based canon, arguing that

00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:09.740
the Deuterocanon lacked Hebrew originals and

00:23:09.740 --> 00:23:12.180
contained doctrines like prayers for the dead

00:23:12.180 --> 00:23:18.720
in 2 Maccabee 1245, conflicting with sola scriptura.

00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:23.299
The Greek Septuagint widespread use in early

00:23:23.299 --> 00:23:27.759
church led to It's books being retained by Catholic

00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:30.240
and Orthodox while Protestant reformers reverted

00:23:30.240 --> 00:23:33.559
to Hebrew canon, which is why you see that variable,

00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:36.160
that difference with the Old Testament between

00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:39.740
the different branches of Christianity. Yeah,

00:23:39.759 --> 00:23:51.559
that's a lot there. I'm well studied on this

00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:56.950
one. But it's important, though, to be studied

00:23:56.950 --> 00:24:00.049
in all this because, like you were saying, you

00:24:00.049 --> 00:24:01.809
look at the early church and you look at, you

00:24:01.809 --> 00:24:04.970
know, how they had people who are well -versed

00:24:04.970 --> 00:24:06.910
in the Latin and the Greek and all that stuff

00:24:06.910 --> 00:24:13.130
so that they can make that call, you know, because

00:24:13.130 --> 00:24:15.950
the whole goal there, you know, we hope that

00:24:15.950 --> 00:24:18.910
their goal was to preserve the word. You know,

00:24:18.930 --> 00:24:21.190
we have to believe to then have that faith. I

00:24:21.190 --> 00:24:23.369
forget. Oh, we talked about the last episode.

00:24:24.089 --> 00:24:27.970
the faith that the word is, you know, that God's

00:24:27.970 --> 00:24:31.630
hand is in it and that God has a plan and that

00:24:31.630 --> 00:24:34.930
God would not let his word, you know, be diminished

00:24:34.930 --> 00:24:36.789
or anything, but that it would be used. People

00:24:36.789 --> 00:24:39.630
that have the knowledge would then re reaffirm,

00:24:39.650 --> 00:24:44.630
you know, and strengthen his word. And that's,

00:24:44.630 --> 00:24:48.309
you can say it's trusting man, but I say it's

00:24:48.309 --> 00:24:51.849
trusting a brother or sister in Christ, um, who

00:24:51.849 --> 00:24:55.980
are charged. And I think, you know, to do that,

00:24:56.059 --> 00:24:57.619
it's the same thing as being a teacher. I think

00:24:57.619 --> 00:24:59.599
there has to be a calling and something on your

00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:02.220
heart. Like, well, this needs to be addressed.

00:25:02.799 --> 00:25:05.039
So when they address that and they go in there

00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:07.619
to fix it, they're going, okay. It's also then,

00:25:07.700 --> 00:25:12.299
you know, deciding, you know, look at the Jewish

00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:14.420
people. Look how they handled it. What did they

00:25:14.420 --> 00:25:16.900
say was actually canon? Yes, there's these other

00:25:16.900 --> 00:25:19.039
books. There's other scriptures that, you know,

00:25:19.059 --> 00:25:22.539
were taken out. You know, I think, like, last

00:25:22.539 --> 00:25:25.279
chapter of Daniel. It's almost because it was,

00:25:25.339 --> 00:25:29.039
it was, it was removed. It wasn't removed. I

00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.420
mean, like Catholics have it, but it's also more

00:25:32.420 --> 00:25:36.259
kind of redundant in a sense of, you know, you

00:25:36.259 --> 00:25:39.180
know, because the book was to encourage people

00:25:39.180 --> 00:25:42.599
and then it was more gloomy, do me talking about

00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:45.079
the dragon, but it's not physically removed.

00:25:45.259 --> 00:25:48.200
I mean, it's not really missing anything in a

00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:51.339
sense because it still has the prophecy in it.

00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:53.819
It's more like it was reduced down because it

00:25:53.819 --> 00:25:58.220
was too bulky, which is, I mean, yeah. Talking

00:25:58.220 --> 00:26:01.779
about Daniel 13, because that's the chapter you're

00:26:01.779 --> 00:26:06.779
referring to. If you go look into it, obviously

00:26:06.779 --> 00:26:08.799
there's a lot more. There's Psalm 151, which

00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:10.759
we don't consider through Maccabees, any of the

00:26:10.759 --> 00:26:13.539
Maccabees, honestly. But when it comes down to

00:26:13.539 --> 00:26:16.819
Daniel 13, it's also known as the Susanna, which

00:26:16.819 --> 00:26:19.819
is one of the most fascinating and debated additional

00:26:19.819 --> 00:26:23.349
books of Daniel. It's part of the Deuterocanonical

00:26:23.349 --> 00:26:27.589
books or the Apocrypha. It means that it's included

00:26:27.589 --> 00:26:29.869
in Catholic or Orthodox Bibles, but not in most

00:26:29.869 --> 00:26:33.410
Protestant ones. And here's why. A self -contrary

00:26:33.410 --> 00:26:38.349
story about a virtuous woman, Susanna, falsely

00:26:38.349 --> 00:26:41.450
accused of adultery by two corrupt elders. And

00:26:41.450 --> 00:26:43.390
then Daniel intervenes, exposing the elders'

00:26:43.509 --> 00:26:45.910
lies through clever cross -examination, leading

00:26:45.910 --> 00:26:49.049
their... execution and Susanna's vindication.

00:26:49.210 --> 00:26:51.630
The theme here is divine justice, wisdom, and

00:26:51.630 --> 00:26:55.069
moral purity. Why it was disputed, because not

00:26:55.069 --> 00:26:58.369
in the Hebrew Masoretic text, the early Hebrew

00:26:58.369 --> 00:27:00.569
manuscripts of Daniel don't include it at all.

00:27:00.710 --> 00:27:04.630
The Greek Septuagint, or actually it does appear

00:27:04.630 --> 00:27:07.470
there in early Greek translations suggesting

00:27:07.470 --> 00:27:11.309
it was added later, likely 2nd or 1st century

00:27:11.309 --> 00:27:14.430
BC when the Greek Septuagint became a thing.

00:27:16.580 --> 00:27:18.619
Catholics affirmed it in the Council of Trent,

00:27:18.680 --> 00:27:21.240
like I mentioned, 1546. Orthodox accepted it

00:27:21.240 --> 00:27:22.839
because it was part of the Septuagint tradition.

00:27:23.619 --> 00:27:26.180
Protestants followed the Hebrew canon, which

00:27:26.180 --> 00:27:29.720
we explained, which considers it edifying but

00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:33.359
not scripture, and Jewish tradition just says

00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:35.460
it's not in the Tanakh. That's the thing, too.

00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:38.240
I think when it comes to Old Testament, probably

00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:46.349
take the lead of the Jews because That is something

00:27:46.349 --> 00:27:49.269
that they have passed down and passed down and

00:27:49.269 --> 00:27:52.069
passed down. There's not really anything to be

00:27:52.069 --> 00:27:54.829
refined from that because this is what it is.

00:27:54.829 --> 00:27:56.369
This is what it has been. This is what it will

00:27:56.369 --> 00:28:00.829
be. It's the same dang thing that Jesus read.

00:28:01.730 --> 00:28:06.430
You know what I mean? Nothing's changed with

00:28:06.430 --> 00:28:10.450
it from that time to my understanding. It's,

00:28:10.490 --> 00:28:13.970
you know, it's a knock. It's, you know, the Pentateuch.

00:28:14.829 --> 00:28:19.329
the first five books, it has all been really

00:28:19.329 --> 00:28:23.349
the same. It's been preserved because it's tradition,

00:28:23.650 --> 00:28:26.690
but it's also the religion that has been going

00:28:26.690 --> 00:28:36.190
on long, long time. They've had it there. You

00:28:36.190 --> 00:28:40.190
look at it like the Bible has been around for

00:28:40.190 --> 00:28:45.529
a long time too. yes that's true but there's

00:28:45.529 --> 00:28:50.009
also like you know the you know was the old testament

00:28:50.009 --> 00:28:52.450
was already refined and done by the time you

00:28:52.450 --> 00:28:55.589
know the old test new testament came to be so

00:28:55.589 --> 00:28:58.210
there's less issues i feel with besides you know

00:28:58.210 --> 00:29:00.190
wanting to add certain things and do certain

00:29:00.190 --> 00:29:05.430
things i will add in because early church debates

00:29:05.430 --> 00:29:10.049
happened often um for example jerome which he

00:29:10.049 --> 00:29:13.230
included it He included in his Latin Vulgate,

00:29:13.349 --> 00:29:16.170
which noted he didn't know in there. It's not

00:29:16.170 --> 00:29:19.230
in the Hebrew origin, which if you don't know,

00:29:19.309 --> 00:29:25.529
origin was a philosopher. He was an ancient philosopher

00:29:25.529 --> 00:29:32.049
in the sense. And he was on Alexandria. Really

00:29:32.049 --> 00:29:36.150
cool guy. If you go read his stuff, he was apologetics,

00:29:36.190 --> 00:29:39.759
Christian theology, textual criticism. um hermeneutics

00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:41.599
that was all his main interests and stuff like

00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:43.839
that and he would study and point out different

00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:48.200
things he he would defended daniel 13 in this

00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:51.319
example arguing the jews had hidden some inspired

00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:55.319
texts which is why catholics and orthodox kept

00:29:55.319 --> 00:29:59.920
it in the kept it in because the septuagint which

00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:04.059
was um primarily used by christians of the early

00:30:04.059 --> 00:30:09.769
church as the main source of biblical Old Testament

00:30:09.769 --> 00:30:12.890
was the Septuagint. Because the Greeks, the Greek

00:30:12.890 --> 00:30:17.630
Septuagint was to preserve scripture. And that's

00:30:17.630 --> 00:30:21.049
why it was so hardcore. But Protestants go off

00:30:21.049 --> 00:30:24.430
of like, hey, this wasn't Hebrew tradition because

00:30:24.430 --> 00:30:26.589
the Bible says, you know, they were supposed

00:30:26.589 --> 00:30:30.930
to be keeping the scripture clean. that's where

00:30:30.930 --> 00:30:33.869
the debate is so you know that's why you see

00:30:33.869 --> 00:30:37.849
such a diversity in that but it doesn't change

00:30:37.849 --> 00:30:43.369
how and what we do as christians you know um

00:30:43.369 --> 00:30:46.609
that's where a lot of times you say where does

00:30:46.609 --> 00:30:49.450
it come down to who is jesus and that's like

00:30:49.450 --> 00:30:52.869
the important part who is jesus what is his mission

00:30:53.309 --> 00:30:55.750
what what part does he play in this and then

00:30:55.750 --> 00:30:58.309
what's our part for salvation those are the things

00:30:58.309 --> 00:31:02.349
that stand out for christian uh theology and

00:31:02.349 --> 00:31:05.390
ideology like i mean i've already said that but

00:31:05.390 --> 00:31:09.549
yeah uh it is like you said it goes in you know

00:31:09.549 --> 00:31:11.769
early christian churches too like you get a theme

00:31:11.769 --> 00:31:14.369
of that too there is so much because you're gonna

00:31:14.369 --> 00:31:16.509
have people from different different you know

00:31:16.509 --> 00:31:19.970
there's the people who were jewish first They're

00:31:19.970 --> 00:31:21.289
going to be like, well, no, this is the Jewish

00:31:21.289 --> 00:31:24.650
law. This is the way it's always been. Traditionalist.

00:31:25.069 --> 00:31:27.089
I keep saying tradition. All I can think about

00:31:27.089 --> 00:31:31.710
is the fiddle on the roof. Tradition. And...

00:31:31.710 --> 00:31:39.609
Tradition. Anyways. But, you know, I think about

00:31:39.609 --> 00:31:45.150
that. Then you have, you know, the Gentile who's

00:31:45.150 --> 00:31:48.279
like... Oh, well, you know, we know some of these

00:31:48.279 --> 00:31:49.619
stories. You've heard this story. It's like,

00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:53.220
it's a story, but it's not, you know, what we

00:31:53.220 --> 00:31:54.700
believe in that it's going to create. And that's

00:31:54.700 --> 00:31:58.339
why also you saw the, not division, but the dividing

00:31:58.339 --> 00:32:01.440
of the church too. And like the way, you know,

00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:03.180
you have the early church and then you have,

00:32:03.220 --> 00:32:06.000
you know, it splits off into different ways of

00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:11.660
doing it. Yeah. Yeah, man, this is a good topic.

00:32:11.740 --> 00:32:19.170
I like this topic. This is some good stuff. This

00:32:19.170 --> 00:32:28.170
is some good stuff. Okay, so let's do... So if

00:32:28.170 --> 00:32:30.230
we're talking about regional canon differences,

00:32:30.710 --> 00:32:33.630
obviously Christianity was outspread. Go read

00:32:33.630 --> 00:32:36.049
Acts if you haven't. Or go read the blog post

00:32:36.049 --> 00:32:38.609
regarding Acts that were written by Dylan. I

00:32:38.609 --> 00:32:48.500
forgot about those. Yeah. Right. Right. No, no,

00:32:48.500 --> 00:32:56.279
no. Yeah. I, I, I posted it, but yeah. Listener,

00:32:56.279 --> 00:32:58.700
have you read it? But, uh, so this is where you

00:32:58.700 --> 00:33:01.579
could see regional Canon difference. Now this

00:33:01.579 --> 00:33:03.799
is interesting. So if you go to Syrian, right.

00:33:04.079 --> 00:33:07.279
The Pishita, uh, which Canon emissions, new Testament

00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:09.460
lacks second, Peter, second, third, John, Jude,

00:33:09.460 --> 00:33:12.450
and revelation. and it later adapted it in the

00:33:12.450 --> 00:33:15.730
6th century. Why? Because these books were rarely

00:33:15.730 --> 00:33:18.809
used in Syriac -speaking churches. Revelation

00:33:18.809 --> 00:33:21.089
was actually viewed as too mystical or tied to

00:33:21.089 --> 00:33:23.089
Roman persecution, and they said that doesn't

00:33:23.089 --> 00:33:25.829
apply to us. Let's move on. Old Testament, they

00:33:25.829 --> 00:33:29.730
followed a Hebrew -like canon, rejecting a Deuterocanonicals.

00:33:29.829 --> 00:33:34.269
So let's go to Egypt, for example, Alexandrian.

00:33:34.509 --> 00:33:36.769
Clement of Alexandria, if you haven't read his

00:33:36.769 --> 00:33:41.640
writings, read it. 100 % recommend it. He quoted

00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:44.859
Shepherd of Hermas and Adache of Scripture in

00:33:44.859 --> 00:33:48.859
origin. He actually, third century, he listed

00:33:48.859 --> 00:33:52.539
disputed books like Hebrew and James, but noted

00:33:52.539 --> 00:33:56.759
doubts regarding their origin and stuff at the

00:33:56.759 --> 00:34:00.059
time. Ethiopian Orthodox, we talked about. They

00:34:00.059 --> 00:34:04.339
also included Enoch, Jubilee, 4 Baraks. you know,

00:34:04.339 --> 00:34:06.400
stuff along those lines. New Testament, they

00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:10.280
added this book called Synodos and Clement. Again,

00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:14.960
Clement of Alexandria stuff, local liturgical

00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:17.659
text. And they did that because isolation from

00:34:17.659 --> 00:34:20.679
the Mediterranean debates preserved earlier Jewish

00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:22.820
Christian traditions. So they have a little bit

00:34:22.820 --> 00:34:25.699
more of a traditional vibe to what they stand

00:34:25.699 --> 00:34:29.360
for. There's the Armenian variations, which include.

00:34:29.820 --> 00:34:33.039
Third Corinthians, which was a second century

00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:39.300
pseudo -depigraphon, which they included it until

00:34:39.300 --> 00:34:42.400
the 12th century. And they're like, never mind,

00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:45.320
I'll take this back, forget it. They're like,

00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:47.119
yeah, it's not as much as we thought it was.

00:34:48.019 --> 00:34:50.719
Regional canons reflect local liturgical use,

00:34:50.940 --> 00:34:53.739
theological priorities, and isolation from broader

00:34:53.739 --> 00:34:56.369
debates that happen. During the church fathers

00:34:56.369 --> 00:35:00.449
disputes. Like Origen, Aesibus, Athanasius. And

00:35:00.449 --> 00:35:04.690
Cyril of Jerusalem. Who hardcore debated these

00:35:04.690 --> 00:35:07.849
things. Little things though. Nothing that changed.

00:35:08.090 --> 00:35:11.489
The foundation of Christianity. Or the fundamentalism.

00:35:11.650 --> 00:35:17.369
But just had additional books. Like Origen. He's

00:35:17.369 --> 00:35:20.710
like yes Hebrew. Yes James. He said no shepherd

00:35:20.710 --> 00:35:25.639
of Hermas. He was conflicted on 2 Peter. for

00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:30.659
example he was like oh um 20 homoglobulia let's

00:35:30.659 --> 00:35:33.739
agreed and then rejected revelation sometimes

00:35:33.739 --> 00:35:38.039
sometimes he was like oh yeah i accept and then

00:35:38.039 --> 00:35:49.500
he was 50 50 on james and jude um yeah a 27 book

00:35:49.500 --> 00:35:51.579
new Testament, which is the Easter letter, which

00:35:51.579 --> 00:35:53.420
is actually the closest to what we have today.

00:35:53.860 --> 00:35:59.920
Um, they, uh, Anthony, uh, uh, Athanasius rejected

00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:03.820
the Dache and the apocalypse of Peter and was

00:36:03.820 --> 00:36:08.539
back and forth on Esther of old books. Um, serial

00:36:08.539 --> 00:36:12.699
Jerusalem. 22 New Testament books, no revelations,

00:36:12.699 --> 00:36:15.659
basically, and rejected anything that was considered

00:36:15.659 --> 00:36:19.000
apocrypha and was 50 -50 on nothing. I mean,

00:36:19.019 --> 00:36:21.219
like, I can appreciate the whole, like, he's

00:36:21.219 --> 00:36:24.119
not wishy -washy. He's like, yes, no, yes, no,

00:36:24.199 --> 00:36:30.300
yes, no. Black and white. Yeah. That's nice.

00:36:30.420 --> 00:36:33.619
Yep. Very, very black and white. So, Nero of

00:36:33.619 --> 00:36:37.699
Jerusalem was during the church. you know, 300,

00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:42.679
400, uh, or 380. Um, definitely go read some

00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:45.199
of the writings and stuff from Cyril Jerusalem.

00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:48.440
Um, we're talking like, you know, like there

00:36:48.440 --> 00:36:51.800
are a couple of generations in now to like removed

00:36:51.800 --> 00:36:55.260
from the disciples and everything. Yeah. So now

00:36:55.260 --> 00:36:57.280
it's like, you're still talking about people.

00:36:57.320 --> 00:36:59.760
I feel like it's really, still really fresh for

00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:04.510
them where, you know, like, yes, they, Like,

00:37:04.510 --> 00:37:07.010
you know, their grandfather could have been walking

00:37:07.010 --> 00:37:11.050
with Jesus. Like, that's crazy. Like, it's such

00:37:11.050 --> 00:37:13.289
an interesting thing. Like, oh, yeah, my grandfather

00:37:13.289 --> 00:37:16.469
was there when he fed the 5 ,000. You know, it's

00:37:16.469 --> 00:37:19.610
like stuff like that where it's like, whoa. You

00:37:19.610 --> 00:37:21.230
know, I can't say that. You know, it's like,

00:37:21.269 --> 00:37:25.170
oh, my grandpa fought in World War II. My grandpa

00:37:25.170 --> 00:37:28.750
fought in Korea. You know, like, that's. Which

00:37:28.750 --> 00:37:30.630
is still, to put it in that perspective, where

00:37:30.630 --> 00:37:33.650
it's not that far in time, like 100 years ago,

00:37:33.789 --> 00:37:39.170
we had World War II. Which is crazy. It feels

00:37:39.170 --> 00:37:40.829
like that's a long time ago, learning it as a

00:37:40.829 --> 00:37:42.150
history. Yeah, we talk about it really well.

00:37:42.269 --> 00:37:43.630
But it's still relevant. We're like, hey, yeah,

00:37:43.730 --> 00:37:48.530
you can still see things from it. That's the

00:37:48.530 --> 00:37:50.030
same comparison I think about that for them.

00:37:50.090 --> 00:37:52.170
That must be cool because you could walk around

00:37:52.170 --> 00:37:53.929
like, oh, yeah, right here. See this right here?

00:37:53.949 --> 00:37:55.829
This is something that he did right here in this

00:37:55.829 --> 00:37:58.849
time, in this place. And, you know, oh, this

00:37:58.849 --> 00:38:01.989
is where, you know, Peter was here when he denied

00:38:01.989 --> 00:38:04.849
Jesus. And, you know, they have that. It's still

00:38:04.849 --> 00:38:07.670
there. Even to this day, there's still those

00:38:07.670 --> 00:38:11.369
places, some of them. But then that were, you

00:38:11.369 --> 00:38:14.130
know, it really is interesting to think is like

00:38:14.130 --> 00:38:19.010
you still had that closeness to it all. And then

00:38:19.010 --> 00:38:22.730
with the scripture that, you know, where it really

00:38:22.730 --> 00:38:25.349
I don't think would have you wouldn't think it

00:38:25.349 --> 00:38:29.260
would, you know. changed or differing, you know,

00:38:29.260 --> 00:38:34.900
so much. This is an interesting thing. Two people

00:38:34.900 --> 00:38:36.940
can say something that happened, you know, last

00:38:36.940 --> 00:38:39.800
week we could talk about, oh, this is in the

00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:42.059
podcast. And we could have totally two different

00:38:42.059 --> 00:38:43.659
ideas about it, but it's still going to be somewhat

00:38:43.659 --> 00:38:48.340
close. Or now, you know, we talk about our podcast

00:38:48.340 --> 00:38:51.059
we did the first time when I was in Mexico. Our

00:38:51.059 --> 00:38:53.320
memories might be completely different than that,

00:38:53.320 --> 00:38:57.739
you know? you know i can be like oh yeah i remember

00:38:57.739 --> 00:39:00.739
that it was really awesome i recorded on my phone

00:39:00.739 --> 00:39:04.440
and i was super tired and we were in the same

00:39:04.440 --> 00:39:07.980
time zone which was cool because i was in i was

00:39:07.980 --> 00:39:11.280
in mexico um you know but things will be completely

00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:14.300
different on the way you do that and it's the

00:39:14.300 --> 00:39:17.059
same thing like with all these early people like

00:39:17.059 --> 00:39:19.380
there would have been similar things but then

00:39:19.380 --> 00:39:22.320
once you get past that I feel like around the

00:39:22.320 --> 00:39:24.460
time that we're talking about that 300 AD, there's

00:39:24.460 --> 00:39:26.559
going to be some differences that start to appear,

00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:29.800
but it just makes it interesting to hear that

00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:33.159
and like really study that timeframe of the early

00:39:33.159 --> 00:39:42.619
church. Yeah. Well, so let's get an example.

00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:46.119
So like early church, let's say a Gnostic text,

00:39:46.119 --> 00:39:49.780
which we mentioned a little bit of. And I know

00:39:49.780 --> 00:39:53.980
over time we've discovered more, you know, more

00:39:53.980 --> 00:39:58.460
doctorate and more, more doctorate, sorry, documents.

00:39:58.780 --> 00:40:00.699
That's the word, more documents and stuff like

00:40:00.699 --> 00:40:02.659
that. They were like, Hey, this is written in

00:40:02.659 --> 00:40:04.039
this timeframe or written in this timeframe.

00:40:04.139 --> 00:40:08.500
For example, one of the main ideas is I had someone

00:40:08.500 --> 00:40:09.739
come up to me and say, well, you're ignoring

00:40:09.739 --> 00:40:13.090
the gospel of Judas. We discovered this in 2006.

00:40:13.389 --> 00:40:16.829
That's recent. But we know, we now know, after

00:40:16.829 --> 00:40:18.630
studying it and reading it, that it was written

00:40:18.630 --> 00:40:23.250
in 150 AD. But the claim for Gospel of Judas

00:40:23.250 --> 00:40:25.889
was that Judas was a hero and he obeyed Jesus'

00:40:26.190 --> 00:40:31.070
orders. Which that contradicts Mark 14, 21. And

00:40:31.070 --> 00:40:34.550
it promotes docetism, which is Jesus only seemed

00:40:34.550 --> 00:40:37.969
human kind of thing. That he wasn't actually

00:40:37.969 --> 00:40:41.170
born of the flesh. But we can look into this

00:40:41.170 --> 00:40:42.889
so we can actually look into it a little bit

00:40:42.889 --> 00:40:44.630
more because Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Judas,

00:40:44.710 --> 00:40:48.230
and Epistosophia all claim the same thing, Gnosticism.

00:40:48.769 --> 00:40:52.590
We look at it and theological heresy was dualism,

00:40:52.610 --> 00:40:55.909
which Gnosticism despised the material world,

00:40:55.989 --> 00:41:00.110
but John 1 .14 says the word became flesh. Denial

00:41:00.110 --> 00:41:04.480
of Christ's humanity, many Gnostic texts... Docetism,

00:41:04.599 --> 00:41:10.079
which 1 John 4, 2 -3 condemn this directly. Pseudepigraphy,

00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:13.460
which falsely attributed to apostles. Like, for

00:41:13.460 --> 00:41:15.760
example, Gospel of Philip claimed Philip wrote

00:41:15.760 --> 00:41:19.639
it. So it itself said, oh, Gospel of Philip because

00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:22.019
Philip wrote it. I, Philip, wrote this, whatever,

00:41:22.159 --> 00:41:24.440
etc. All these things were written 100 years

00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:27.400
after the apostles, lacking eyewitness ties.

00:41:28.150 --> 00:41:30.630
For example, the irony in this is the Gospel

00:41:30.630 --> 00:41:33.570
of Judas was known to Irenaeus, which we mentioned

00:41:33.570 --> 00:41:38.929
once. He was in 180 AD, who mocked it as fiction.

00:41:39.190 --> 00:41:43.070
He's like, this is stupid. He's like, yeah, that's

00:41:43.070 --> 00:41:46.389
fiction. Whatever. But modern discoveries confirm

00:41:46.389 --> 00:41:49.849
the early church's vigilance, right? You can

00:41:49.849 --> 00:41:51.929
actually read that in the book Against Heresies,

00:41:51.929 --> 00:41:54.110
and it's a really good book to read, especially

00:41:54.110 --> 00:42:00.880
for understanding why. These are rejected. Yeah.

00:42:00.980 --> 00:42:04.079
I don't have a copy physically. I have a digital

00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:07.079
one on my phone. I have tons of books on my phone.

00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:10.619
Doing a lot of reading. You know what? I can

00:42:10.619 --> 00:42:14.940
do my audio book and listen to Wild Drive. There

00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:19.679
is an audible. I don't know if you have a membership

00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:21.980
or something for it. Let's help me and the wife.

00:42:22.420 --> 00:42:25.119
I read all my books and she gets it on the Kindle.

00:42:25.929 --> 00:42:28.489
so that she can read it and i can listen so we

00:42:28.489 --> 00:42:31.349
can talk about her books i'm gonna i just texted

00:42:31.349 --> 00:42:33.309
it to you so you are on discourse so you have

00:42:33.309 --> 00:42:38.190
that i i think uh an important mention is that

00:42:38.190 --> 00:42:41.469
we should talk about martin luther's canon he's

00:42:41.469 --> 00:42:43.489
like i feel like the only thing you ever get

00:42:43.489 --> 00:42:46.929
taught about like about really biblical anything

00:42:46.929 --> 00:42:52.219
church related in school you know was about the

00:42:52.219 --> 00:42:53.739
reformation of the Catholic church and Martin

00:42:53.739 --> 00:42:57.000
Luther, the 94 reformations. That's it. Like

00:42:57.000 --> 00:42:58.820
the most little time we talked about church,

00:42:58.820 --> 00:43:01.920
I feel ever was talking about that. And I was

00:43:01.920 --> 00:43:05.739
like, Oh wow. That's all we get. I'm like, you

00:43:05.739 --> 00:43:10.500
know, we got like a whole, what is it? Like three

00:43:10.500 --> 00:43:13.440
days on, yeah. Catholicism and Christianity,

00:43:13.760 --> 00:43:16.519
three days on Judaism. And that we had a whole

00:43:16.519 --> 00:43:22.059
week on Hinduism and, uh, islam and all that

00:43:22.059 --> 00:43:24.719
i'm like well why is my my i'm getting gypped

00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:28.420
man why is my religion gypped but you know oh

00:43:28.420 --> 00:43:31.679
it's cool system you know what i expect well

00:43:31.679 --> 00:43:36.519
yeah because the 16th century reformation shattered

00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:40.019
western christian unity on the canon especially

00:43:40.019 --> 00:43:43.420
over the over old testament exactly and that's

00:43:43.420 --> 00:43:46.619
where you start seeing the split mark that you

00:43:46.619 --> 00:43:49.969
know All these churches now, because before it

00:43:49.969 --> 00:43:53.530
was, you know, you had, you know, the early church

00:43:53.530 --> 00:43:56.489
Catholicism. That's basically what you had. You

00:43:56.489 --> 00:43:58.650
had like those basically like two branches in

00:43:58.650 --> 00:44:02.309
a sense. I mean, didn't really, really dumb it

00:44:02.309 --> 00:44:06.429
down. And then it just made it completely just,

00:44:06.590 --> 00:44:09.050
you know, went from like, there's like two or

00:44:09.050 --> 00:44:11.230
three options to like, no, now, you know what?

00:44:11.250 --> 00:44:14.750
Just, you don't like it. Make a church. Right.

00:44:14.809 --> 00:44:17.920
Yeah, sure. I, I think there's a pretty good...

00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:21.079
I would say overall, from a world perspective,

00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:26.139
there is Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant for the

00:44:26.139 --> 00:44:28.619
most part. Everything kind of breaks down to

00:44:28.619 --> 00:44:33.340
that as the primaries of understanding Christianity.

00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:37.260
Martin Luther, when he came into the New Testament,

00:44:37.480 --> 00:44:41.039
was questioned. He questioned James. We know

00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:43.880
Jason doesn't like Martin Luther now. He's upset

00:44:43.880 --> 00:44:49.599
with him. God, remind James. he's a bad bad monster

00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:58.000
and he questioned revelations too he was like

00:44:58.000 --> 00:45:02.059
it's too symbolic whatever but um because yeah

00:45:02.059 --> 00:45:05.079
he did and then he still included them in his

00:45:05.079 --> 00:45:08.219
german bible but moved them to the end of the

00:45:08.219 --> 00:45:12.719
book because he didn't want them being read yeah

00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:16.900
right Old Testament. He followed Jerome's Hebrew

00:45:16.900 --> 00:45:21.179
canon, demoting Deuterocanonicals to Apocrypha,

00:45:21.300 --> 00:45:26.320
useful but not scripture, was the idea. His key

00:45:26.320 --> 00:45:29.699
argument was Jews never accepted them and they

00:45:29.699 --> 00:45:34.000
lacked Hebrew originals. But I will say, though,

00:45:34.059 --> 00:45:37.340
with the question, James, James is very important

00:45:37.340 --> 00:45:40.940
because it doesn't contradict. solo fide, which

00:45:40.940 --> 00:45:43.760
solo fide is by faith alone, doesn't contradict

00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:47.019
that. It shows exactly what Galatians 5 does,

00:45:47.320 --> 00:45:51.119
which is that if it's true faith, it brings works.

00:45:51.260 --> 00:45:54.380
It brings a heart that wants to serve. It brings

00:45:54.380 --> 00:45:57.880
fruit. That is a very important understanding

00:45:57.880 --> 00:45:59.639
because anybody can go say, oh, I believe in

00:45:59.639 --> 00:46:03.360
Jesus. Do you? Because I've seen many Christians

00:46:03.360 --> 00:46:05.460
who are the worst people I've ever met in my

00:46:05.460 --> 00:46:08.820
life who are not biblical, who are not loving,

00:46:08.940 --> 00:46:12.579
who are not Christian when it comes down to how

00:46:12.579 --> 00:46:15.380
we're supposed to treat others. Absolutely horrendous

00:46:15.380 --> 00:46:18.239
people. Does that mean I look at them and say

00:46:18.239 --> 00:46:20.699
I'm wrong because of that? No, because the Bible

00:46:20.699 --> 00:46:23.920
sets a standard to it. I'm not going to get on

00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:27.559
to that topic, but, you know, it's just. It doesn't

00:46:27.559 --> 00:46:29.619
contradict solo feeding. As Christians, sometimes

00:46:29.619 --> 00:46:31.659
you feel like the worst people you know are from

00:46:31.659 --> 00:46:35.900
the church or claim to have a walk. That's not

00:46:35.900 --> 00:46:38.699
to say that, you know, everybody's not working

00:46:38.699 --> 00:46:40.880
on themselves somewhere or that you've got something

00:46:40.880 --> 00:46:44.960
going on. It's very true. I just think enough.

00:46:46.139 --> 00:46:50.920
We're watching a documentary right now on Hulu.

00:46:53.000 --> 00:46:59.320
Natalia Grace. This girl who might be an adult,

00:46:59.420 --> 00:47:04.059
but might have dwarfism. And they straight up,

00:47:04.059 --> 00:47:06.019
like, treat her terrible. And they're supposed

00:47:06.019 --> 00:47:08.280
to be this loving Christian family that has it

00:47:08.280 --> 00:47:10.739
all together. And I'm sitting there going, like,

00:47:10.860 --> 00:47:13.960
oh, my gosh. I'm like, the things I'm hearing,

00:47:14.019 --> 00:47:16.760
I'm like, I'm like. And then, you know, somebody

00:47:16.760 --> 00:47:19.480
asked them, like, hey, you know, can you watch

00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:21.559
how you speak with your language? You know, we're

00:47:21.559 --> 00:47:24.159
supposed to, you know, this is, you know. I'm

00:47:24.159 --> 00:47:26.800
a man of Christ. I don't appreciate that. And

00:47:26.800 --> 00:47:28.679
then he freaked out. I'm like, you're supposed

00:47:28.679 --> 00:47:30.860
to be a believer. You should have understanding

00:47:30.860 --> 00:47:32.860
for your fellow brother. And so he don't appreciate

00:47:32.860 --> 00:47:36.500
that. You know, if your brother don't like that,

00:47:36.539 --> 00:47:40.420
don't be. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It was one of those

00:47:40.420 --> 00:47:42.059
things where I'm like, man, this is terrible.

00:47:42.179 --> 00:47:45.519
I'm like, please don't put this. Don't show that

00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:48.659
they're Christian so much during this whole thing.

00:47:49.210 --> 00:47:51.449
I don't want it to be known. Like, it's embarrassing

00:47:51.449 --> 00:47:55.429
and sad as a Christian that there's people that

00:47:55.429 --> 00:47:58.750
are portraying, you know, that, oh, yeah, you

00:47:58.750 --> 00:48:00.289
believe the same thing as them. It's like, no,

00:48:00.409 --> 00:48:02.610
I promise you Christ wouldn't act like that.

00:48:04.449 --> 00:48:10.929
But anyways, yeah, I digress. Well, that was,

00:48:10.949 --> 00:48:13.489
so with, obviously with Martin Luther's canon,

00:48:13.550 --> 00:48:16.210
that was like 1520, 1534. Catholics obviously

00:48:16.210 --> 00:48:19.559
had to respond. Catholics responded with the

00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:24.800
Council of Trent. No, not yet. Catholics responded

00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:30.079
with the Council of Trent. They decreed the Deuterocanonicals

00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:32.300
as fully inspired and they condemned those who

00:48:32.300 --> 00:48:34.699
rejected them. The reasoning was that ancient

00:48:34.699 --> 00:48:38.920
councils like Council of Hippo, Council of Carthage

00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:45.980
affirmed them as truth and as doctrine. The Greeks

00:48:45.980 --> 00:48:49.070
Septuagint was the apostles Bible and the book

00:48:49.070 --> 00:48:51.650
like wisdom and Maccabees supported doctrines

00:48:51.650 --> 00:48:55.289
like purgatory, et cetera. They stood by, um,

00:48:55.489 --> 00:48:58.530
the Protestant reaction. This came up. Calvin

00:48:58.530 --> 00:49:00.650
agreed with Luther on the old Testament, but

00:49:00.650 --> 00:49:02.809
kept James and Jude in the new Testament, arguing

00:49:02.809 --> 00:49:06.210
they didn't truly contradict solo fide Anglicans,

00:49:06.210 --> 00:49:10.809
which the 39 articles in, uh, 1563 called, uh,

00:49:10.849 --> 00:49:15.139
deuterocanonicals. read for example of life,

00:49:15.219 --> 00:49:19.239
but not to establish doctrine. Radical reformers,

00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:23.559
some like Karlstad, wanted to ditch Hebrews and

00:49:23.559 --> 00:49:26.980
Revelations entirely. But modern Protestant Bibles

00:49:26.980 --> 00:49:30.699
either omit the Deuterocanon or print it as an

00:49:30.699 --> 00:49:37.159
intertestamental section kind of thing, like

00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:41.340
mention it kind of thing. But yeah, in that sense.

00:49:43.310 --> 00:49:46.550
Um, it's to me, it's interesting because like,

00:49:46.630 --> 00:49:50.929
um, with this situation, you have a lot of Christians

00:49:50.929 --> 00:49:55.070
falling under the same standpoints with this.

00:49:55.210 --> 00:49:59.829
You have Catholics who like to stand by the,

00:49:59.869 --> 00:50:05.150
the, a lot of the acts, the doing of as religious

00:50:05.150 --> 00:50:11.780
tendencies to live a life proved. by god in that

00:50:11.780 --> 00:50:15.579
sense they want to have standards based upon

00:50:15.579 --> 00:50:19.480
you know the pocket what we call a lot of people

00:50:19.480 --> 00:50:23.719
say nowadays is apocrypha um and saying that

00:50:23.719 --> 00:50:26.219
it is scripture when a lot of times it wasn't

00:50:26.219 --> 00:50:29.019
accepted it's been debated over and over centuries

00:50:29.019 --> 00:50:31.440
the first couple hundred centuries etc that's

00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:34.159
why you're saying oh we we follow the greek no

00:50:34.159 --> 00:50:36.869
we follow the hebrew But it doesn't change the

00:50:36.869 --> 00:50:40.269
foundation of salvation and who Jesus was. So

00:50:40.269 --> 00:50:43.070
that's an important note to make here for people

00:50:43.070 --> 00:50:47.670
listening. Can I mention one thing I just thought

00:50:47.670 --> 00:50:50.150
about that annoys the crap out of me every time

00:50:50.150 --> 00:50:54.230
I hear it? Please do. Please do. And you'll probably

00:50:54.230 --> 00:50:57.429
have the same reaction I did. The Council of

00:50:57.429 --> 00:51:00.510
Nicaea. You hear people talk about this one?

00:51:01.110 --> 00:51:09.000
Yeah. Go ahead. So. All right, so one thing with

00:51:09.000 --> 00:51:11.599
this is that a lot of people always bring up,

00:51:11.699 --> 00:51:14.320
and this is something I debate about a lot online,

00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:18.199
with the Council of Nicaea, a lot of people are

00:51:18.199 --> 00:51:20.440
like, oh, well, they created the Bible and the

00:51:20.440 --> 00:51:22.920
Council of Nicaea. The Council of Nicaea was

00:51:22.920 --> 00:51:29.469
not for Scripture. It was a very... I would say

00:51:29.469 --> 00:51:31.090
one of the most important gatherings in early

00:51:31.090 --> 00:51:33.650
Christian history was 325 AD, but it was not

00:51:33.650 --> 00:51:37.570
about the Bible or biblical canon. It was actually

00:51:37.570 --> 00:51:42.409
there to address was Jesus truly God or a created

00:51:42.409 --> 00:51:46.489
being? Arius, a priest from Alexandria, taught

00:51:46.489 --> 00:51:50.449
there was a time when the Son was not. Jesus

00:51:50.449 --> 00:51:55.989
was subordinate to the Father, and Athenius argued.

00:51:56.800 --> 00:52:01.079
Jesus is eternally God. John 1 .1, Colossians

00:52:01.079 --> 00:52:03.320
1 .15 -17, they backed it up with scripture.

00:52:03.760 --> 00:52:06.780
The outcome, the Nicene Creed, was written declaring

00:52:06.780 --> 00:52:11.059
Jesus true God from true God, begotten, not made

00:52:11.059 --> 00:52:16.019
of one substance with the Father. That was the

00:52:16.019 --> 00:52:19.840
standpoint of the Council of Nicaea and the Nicene

00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:24.579
Creed. So when people, you'll hear a lot from

00:52:25.159 --> 00:52:29.360
or Muslims or atheists or people who are trying

00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:33.019
to be saying that they have the secret or they

00:52:33.019 --> 00:52:35.940
have the full understanding of Christianity and

00:52:35.940 --> 00:52:40.340
how it's wrong or incorrect, etc. They have a

00:52:40.340 --> 00:52:42.320
standpoint that the Council of Nicaea somehow

00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:45.320
was where the Bible was created. And that's not

00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:47.519
even true because the Bible was not even debated

00:52:47.519 --> 00:52:49.659
when the Council of Nicaea. So I'm putting it

00:52:49.659 --> 00:52:53.179
out there so people understand. It was not about.

00:52:53.559 --> 00:52:56.059
the bible or biblical canon it was about who

00:52:56.059 --> 00:52:59.320
jesus is because they wanted to establish this

00:52:59.320 --> 00:53:02.780
because there was um for example arias there

00:53:02.780 --> 00:53:04.940
were some people who were starting to teach oh

00:53:04.940 --> 00:53:07.880
well jesus wasn't like he wasn't god like he

00:53:07.880 --> 00:53:10.699
obviously wasn't but then you had all these other

00:53:10.699 --> 00:53:13.739
um second generation third generation apostles

00:53:13.739 --> 00:53:17.119
or multiple generational apostles who were direct

00:53:17.119 --> 00:53:19.619
lines of uh the original apostles saying hey

00:53:19.619 --> 00:53:24.250
read scripture John one, one Colossians one 15

00:53:24.250 --> 00:53:26.670
to 17, read this, read that. You will see that

00:53:26.670 --> 00:53:28.730
you're wrong. And then establishing this so they

00:53:28.730 --> 00:53:32.010
can all move forward in a unison to what the

00:53:32.010 --> 00:53:34.929
truth is. That was the whole point of it. So

00:53:34.929 --> 00:53:37.250
that was something that. They did not establish

00:53:37.250 --> 00:53:40.389
Bible's canon. New Testament canon was still

00:53:40.389 --> 00:53:42.929
debated for decades after, like we've just been

00:53:42.929 --> 00:53:46.670
saying. The Muratorian Fragment, for example,

00:53:46.869 --> 00:53:51.809
and Athanasius' Easter Letter 367 were closer

00:53:51.809 --> 00:53:56.849
to canon decisions. The Council of Nicaea did

00:53:56.849 --> 00:54:00.110
not invent the Trinity. It clarified biblical

00:54:00.110 --> 00:54:03.650
teachings against Arianism, because Arianism

00:54:03.650 --> 00:54:06.760
was becoming more... popular, more prevalent.

00:54:07.139 --> 00:54:11.239
So this is something where people, if you don't

00:54:11.239 --> 00:54:13.960
know where that idea came from, and you're going

00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:16.579
to kind of probably laugh at this. It came from

00:54:16.579 --> 00:54:19.440
the Da Vinci code because the Da Vinci code falsely

00:54:19.440 --> 00:54:22.739
claimed Nicaea invented Jesus's divinity. And

00:54:22.739 --> 00:54:25.219
the conspiracy theory suggests that canon was

00:54:25.219 --> 00:54:28.900
decided there, but no, there's, it's not evident

00:54:28.900 --> 00:54:31.019
and nor is there any historical understanding

00:54:31.019 --> 00:54:33.500
of that. It was a lot of different other councils

00:54:33.500 --> 00:54:36.559
over time. And there's good reason why there

00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:39.699
was debate amongst it, because one was following

00:54:39.699 --> 00:54:42.019
the Hebrew tradition and one was following the

00:54:42.019 --> 00:54:45.300
Greek tradition, even though they both agree

00:54:45.300 --> 00:54:48.199
to what salvation is and how a Christian should

00:54:48.199 --> 00:54:50.880
look like in the sense of act and who Jesus was.

00:54:51.039 --> 00:54:54.559
That was the important takeaway to this. So the

00:54:54.559 --> 00:54:57.639
Council of Nicaea defended Orthodox Christianology,

00:54:57.820 --> 00:55:00.510
not the Bible's book list. the cannon developed

00:55:00.510 --> 00:55:05.050
gradually through church users later and other

00:55:05.050 --> 00:55:09.309
councils like council Carthage in three 97. I

00:55:09.309 --> 00:55:13.039
think it's. Good to know these things so that

00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:15.639
when people bring it up to you, listener, and

00:55:15.639 --> 00:55:17.519
say, hey, the Council of Nicaea is where they

00:55:17.519 --> 00:55:19.420
created the Bible. Ha ha, laugh it off. You're

00:55:19.420 --> 00:55:22.139
like, actually, no. Council of Nicaea, you have

00:55:22.139 --> 00:55:24.519
this information. Information is wisdom. Wisdom

00:55:24.519 --> 00:55:27.519
is a sword. And it's really good to know these

00:55:27.519 --> 00:55:29.579
things so that you have a standpoint to stand

00:55:29.579 --> 00:55:32.639
on and say, actually, no. You can't just throw

00:55:32.639 --> 00:55:35.179
false information at me and expect me to roll

00:55:35.179 --> 00:55:36.679
over and say, I guess you're right because I

00:55:36.679 --> 00:55:39.039
don't know better. Know better, learn better,

00:55:39.139 --> 00:55:43.820
read more, understand more. I had a note about

00:55:43.820 --> 00:55:45.679
this, actually. Of course, you always have notes.

00:55:47.880 --> 00:55:52.239
Unless you wanted to jump in on this, I know

00:55:52.239 --> 00:55:53.920
that you might have, it seems like you might

00:55:53.920 --> 00:55:57.539
have a handful with Baby. Oh, no, no. She's loving

00:55:57.539 --> 00:55:59.460
it right now. She's just watching you talk, and

00:55:59.460 --> 00:56:04.619
she's like, ah, ah. So, no. She's like, listen,

00:56:04.699 --> 00:56:07.739
she's like, yes, right. Preach it, Jason. No,

00:56:07.739 --> 00:56:13.969
there is. Yeah. I mean, oh my goodness, you can't

00:56:13.969 --> 00:56:16.929
eat the mic, though. I'm just trying to grab

00:56:16.929 --> 00:56:20.670
it, which is so cute right now. No, but I think

00:56:20.670 --> 00:56:22.389
it's interesting to say, you know, you think

00:56:22.389 --> 00:56:27.130
that you would have, you know, those people that

00:56:27.130 --> 00:56:28.869
bring up the scriptural knowledge, like you said,

00:56:28.929 --> 00:56:32.110
too. So anybody, you know, it's this false, the

00:56:32.110 --> 00:56:34.769
backing that the scripture has, basically anything

00:56:34.769 --> 00:56:37.710
that's going to be falsely said, like that, that

00:56:37.710 --> 00:56:39.309
people are like, oh, well, this was said here,

00:56:39.409 --> 00:56:41.650
and this is, you know. yeah you know da vinci

00:56:41.650 --> 00:56:43.789
code and all that it's like well no it literally

00:56:43.789 --> 00:56:47.429
talks about i am and talking about you know jesus

00:56:47.429 --> 00:56:51.329
says how he was you know um sorry about that

00:56:51.329 --> 00:56:56.710
the baby decided to click the mouse and but no

00:56:56.710 --> 00:56:59.869
it's like there's so much The biblical structure

00:56:59.869 --> 00:57:02.510
and the fact that we have the answers then and

00:57:02.510 --> 00:57:06.510
there to confront those who are trying to falsely

00:57:06.510 --> 00:57:09.090
teach. It goes back to the importance of being

00:57:09.090 --> 00:57:11.570
equipped in the word and having the knowledge,

00:57:11.809 --> 00:57:18.130
which is awesome. You know, like you're talking

00:57:18.130 --> 00:57:19.449
about like that. And then you have people that

00:57:19.449 --> 00:57:21.489
they just say, oh, look, I found the loophole.

00:57:21.570 --> 00:57:23.010
It's right here. It's like what you're quoting,

00:57:23.110 --> 00:57:26.130
though, is a misquoting of something else. You're

00:57:26.130 --> 00:57:29.469
misquoting a misquote. Like, you're two things

00:57:29.469 --> 00:57:33.429
so far off of what's actually correct that you've

00:57:33.429 --> 00:57:37.989
believed a lie of a lie. You know what I mean?

00:57:37.989 --> 00:57:41.230
In a sense, it's like people that fall for that.

00:57:41.469 --> 00:57:45.989
You're so wrong on so many levels. It's like

00:57:45.989 --> 00:57:48.650
you fell for a lie that is a lie. You know what

00:57:48.650 --> 00:57:52.690
I mean? You're not even on the original lie.

00:57:52.789 --> 00:57:55.739
You're on a secondary lie from the lie. It's

00:57:55.739 --> 00:57:59.679
it's, you know, it's it's it takes me. It really

00:57:59.679 --> 00:58:05.219
it really irks me. I think I can agree to that

00:58:05.219 --> 00:58:09.880
because there there's a place to where the truth,

00:58:10.139 --> 00:58:13.420
if you don't have a foundation of truth, it's

00:58:13.420 --> 00:58:15.880
easy to build upon it until it collapses and

00:58:15.880 --> 00:58:17.599
you can keep building whatever you want on it.

00:58:17.679 --> 00:58:22.300
And as long as it clicks to you, that's it. The

00:58:22.300 --> 00:58:28.199
foundation of Christianity. is is like let's

00:58:28.199 --> 00:58:30.079
go to the bible when you see it where it's like

00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:32.820
built upon the rock right and compared to built

00:58:32.820 --> 00:58:36.880
upon the sand jesus is the foundation to build

00:58:36.880 --> 00:58:40.820
upon um the general consensus among christians

00:58:40.820 --> 00:58:45.139
regarding the early uh ecumenical councils is

00:58:45.139 --> 00:58:47.619
that the first seven councils held between the

00:58:47.619 --> 00:58:50.199
fourth and eighth century are widely accepted

00:58:50.199 --> 00:58:54.139
as authoritative by catherine Orthodox, and most

00:58:54.139 --> 00:58:57.659
Protestant traditions. Though with some differences

00:58:57.659 --> 00:59:00.440
in interpretation and emphasis, these councils

00:59:00.440 --> 00:59:03.780
define core Christian doctrines. They resolved

00:59:03.780 --> 00:59:07.000
major heresies and established foundational church

00:59:07.000 --> 00:59:10.599
practices. And Council of Nicaea, like I said,

00:59:10.739 --> 00:59:14.199
affirmed Christ's divinity. First Council of

00:59:14.199 --> 00:59:20.250
Constantinople, 381. Finalized the Nicene Constantinoplean

00:59:20.250 --> 00:59:22.989
Creed, which affirms the Holy Spirit's divinity.

00:59:23.849 --> 00:59:30.550
Council of Ephesus in 431 declared Mary a God

00:59:30.550 --> 00:59:34.010
-bearer, confirming Christ's unity as God and

00:59:34.010 --> 00:59:37.190
man. Condemned Nestorianism, which separated

00:59:37.190 --> 00:59:40.190
Christ divine and human natures. So it said they're

00:59:40.190 --> 00:59:46.099
one. Council of... Chalcedon, I think it's pronounced,

00:59:46.420 --> 00:59:49.280
but defined Christ as one person and two natures,

00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:53.260
defined and human without confession, change,

00:59:53.500 --> 00:59:58.579
division, or separation, and rejected monophysitism,

00:59:58.780 --> 01:00:01.739
which is claiming Christ had only one nature.

01:00:02.059 --> 01:00:06.300
Second Council of Constantinople in 553 actually

01:00:06.300 --> 01:00:10.320
reaffirmed Chalcedon and condemned writings seen

01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:14.739
as Nestorian, which is the three chapters. controversy.

01:00:14.739 --> 01:00:18.300
You can go read that. It's really cool. Third

01:00:18.300 --> 01:00:23.420
Council of Constantinople concepts rejected monotheism,

01:00:23.920 --> 01:00:27.159
which claimed Christ had only one will. It affirmed

01:00:27.159 --> 01:00:30.260
Christ had both a divine and human will. And

01:00:30.260 --> 01:00:33.139
then finally, another example, Second Council

01:00:33.139 --> 01:00:37.079
of Nicaea approved veneration of icons, not worship,

01:00:37.139 --> 01:00:41.650
but they ended the first iconoclasm. controversy

01:00:41.650 --> 01:00:44.530
some protestant groups later rejected icons as

01:00:44.530 --> 01:00:47.670
idolatrous which you could definitely see that

01:00:47.670 --> 01:00:52.610
the idea was uh that icons uh with this in general

01:00:52.610 --> 01:00:54.949
so you understand the veneration of icons that

01:00:54.949 --> 01:00:59.489
people who stood by christ who were close to

01:00:59.489 --> 01:01:03.809
god and spoke wisdom christianly wisdom were

01:01:03.809 --> 01:01:07.110
um remembered so that you can there's more to

01:01:07.110 --> 01:01:09.699
it but it was Let's just say it was for remembrance

01:01:09.699 --> 01:01:13.920
purposes. But those right here are going to be

01:01:13.920 --> 01:01:18.340
things that unite all of us under the Christian

01:01:18.340 --> 01:01:22.559
faith. Christ's divinity, the Trinity, the resurrection

01:01:22.559 --> 01:01:27.099
are non -negotiable. Scripture's authority, though

01:01:27.099 --> 01:01:29.579
canon differs slightly, the Scripture's authority

01:01:29.579 --> 01:01:33.329
is non -negotiable. And I see in creed, both

01:01:33.329 --> 01:01:35.769
first and second are the most universally accepted

01:01:35.769 --> 01:01:38.530
statement of faith when it comes to Christians.

01:01:39.090 --> 01:01:44.070
And I think when you see these things, I think

01:01:44.070 --> 01:01:49.690
it's very important to understand that history

01:01:49.690 --> 01:01:52.389
and under a Christian history in the sense of

01:01:52.389 --> 01:01:58.250
where we come from is so important to back your

01:01:58.250 --> 01:02:00.969
foundation of what you believe in. back your

01:02:00.969 --> 01:02:04.170
understanding of Christianity, what it's gone

01:02:04.170 --> 01:02:07.429
through, what it's dealt with, why you believe

01:02:07.429 --> 01:02:09.710
what you believe, why this, why that. And that's

01:02:09.710 --> 01:02:14.010
why it's so good to study, read more. And anybody

01:02:14.010 --> 01:02:16.230
or any religion that tells you not to look into

01:02:16.230 --> 01:02:19.449
other things or read things or get into studying

01:02:19.449 --> 01:02:23.590
is going to be false because the truth is revealed

01:02:23.590 --> 01:02:27.469
through time, patience, studying, reading, and

01:02:27.469 --> 01:02:31.960
consulting. So that stuff is built over time.

01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:35.380
Exactly. And like, we have to, we have to, you

01:02:35.380 --> 01:02:37.760
have to know if you don't know your history,

01:02:37.820 --> 01:02:40.039
you don't know what, what's gone through and

01:02:40.039 --> 01:02:44.199
everything. And yes, that's right. If you don't

01:02:44.199 --> 01:02:47.039
know, you know, then you're bound to fall for

01:02:47.039 --> 01:02:50.019
things too. Like, like those people that, you

01:02:50.019 --> 01:02:53.079
know, believe the spinoffs believe the things

01:02:53.079 --> 01:02:55.860
that aren't necessarily true. It's not going

01:02:55.860 --> 01:02:58.699
to be, you know, if you don't have that. firm

01:02:58.699 --> 01:03:02.280
understanding and foundation of not only the

01:03:02.280 --> 01:03:06.119
scripture and knowing what it says, but then

01:03:06.119 --> 01:03:09.579
knowing the history of the church so they know

01:03:09.579 --> 01:03:14.179
where it came from and what, you know, what things

01:03:14.179 --> 01:03:16.840
were done and what things, you know, where there

01:03:16.840 --> 01:03:18.719
could have been things that were mis -screwed,

01:03:18.719 --> 01:03:22.539
just screwed up and done wrong. And you have

01:03:22.539 --> 01:03:26.900
to know, you know, what to do and how to proceed.

01:03:28.010 --> 01:03:30.269
you don't fall for those same things because

01:03:30.269 --> 01:03:32.329
those it goes on the same you know those who

01:03:32.329 --> 01:03:35.190
don't know history about to repeat it so if you

01:03:35.190 --> 01:03:37.010
don't know the word you don't know how you know

01:03:37.010 --> 01:03:39.230
what the history of the church is you'll fall

01:03:39.230 --> 01:03:41.110
for things that the early church that you know

01:03:41.110 --> 01:03:43.429
those who weren't strong or didn't know fell

01:03:43.429 --> 01:03:46.789
for you know fall for these false teachings and

01:03:46.789 --> 01:03:49.849
all these things that aren't true yeah that's

01:03:49.849 --> 01:03:54.739
right we don't want none of that and so This

01:03:54.739 --> 01:03:57.119
is, yeah, this is the baby girl making her first

01:03:57.119 --> 01:04:01.360
appearance. That's for sure. She's going to be

01:04:01.360 --> 01:04:03.820
a talker. Our first guest on the podcast. I feel

01:04:03.820 --> 01:04:06.139
bad for my wife. Both kids are going to be talkers.

01:04:07.159 --> 01:04:12.059
They are. One's already a talker. But, oh, and

01:04:12.059 --> 01:04:14.860
just, I think it's like you were saying, too.

01:04:15.469 --> 01:04:17.630
You know, if it gets away from the ABCs, the

01:04:17.630 --> 01:04:20.550
basics, you know, accepting, believing, confessing

01:04:20.550 --> 01:04:23.610
Christ died for your sins, knowing that, as soon

01:04:23.610 --> 01:04:25.570
as it gets away from that, that's when I feel

01:04:25.570 --> 01:04:28.190
like the serious issues begin, where it starts

01:04:28.190 --> 01:04:30.969
saying, well, Jesus wasn't, you know, wasn't

01:04:30.969 --> 01:04:33.820
God sent. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't. He's

01:04:33.820 --> 01:04:35.980
not part of the Trinity. You know, there is none

01:04:35.980 --> 01:04:37.940
of that. Like, that's where the big issues are.

01:04:38.019 --> 01:04:40.159
But it's also the little issues that we cannot

01:04:40.159 --> 01:04:42.519
fall for because that's when you start creating

01:04:42.519 --> 01:04:45.320
separation from the truth and little things can

01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:47.619
sneak in and there's little chinks in the armor.

01:04:48.380 --> 01:04:51.019
You know, after hearing all this, I'm thinking

01:04:51.019 --> 01:04:53.480
about is like, you know, you have those false

01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:57.239
teachings like, you know, the Mormons have, you

01:04:57.239 --> 01:04:59.900
know. they talk about things where it's like

01:04:59.900 --> 01:05:02.679
no that's not biblical at all i guess you had

01:05:02.679 --> 01:05:06.019
the the basis of christianity but then you also

01:05:06.019 --> 01:05:08.760
have the extra stuff you added that is no way

01:05:08.760 --> 01:05:12.800
biblical and you know you have things to like

01:05:12.800 --> 01:05:15.420
the jehovah witness things that are very close

01:05:15.420 --> 01:05:20.039
to christianity but have you know you allow you

01:05:20.039 --> 01:05:22.780
allow the little lies you know, and believe little

01:05:22.780 --> 01:05:26.079
lies like that, it allows for false doctrine

01:05:26.079 --> 01:05:30.380
to emerge. And that's what you have to be, you

01:05:30.380 --> 01:05:32.820
know, have the knowledge of the early church

01:05:32.820 --> 01:05:36.139
and the word of God, or else you don't know and

01:05:36.139 --> 01:05:38.280
you won't know. Like, oh, that sounds pretty

01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:41.159
close. That sounds pretty similar. There's nothing

01:05:41.159 --> 01:05:42.980
wrong with that. Okay, they just have a different

01:05:42.980 --> 01:05:45.420
way of believing. Like, no, it's not a different

01:05:45.420 --> 01:05:48.599
way of believing. It's a whole different system.

01:05:49.000 --> 01:05:52.449
It doesn't make sense. yes it doesn't add up

01:05:52.449 --> 01:05:55.909
and it's a thing too is to be taught early to

01:05:55.909 --> 01:05:58.670
be equipped early on in life like you were i

01:05:58.670 --> 01:06:01.389
you know like you growing up as a pk you know

01:06:01.389 --> 01:06:03.670
i grew up in the church but knowing those things

01:06:03.670 --> 01:06:06.389
and you know it's important to teach those you

01:06:06.389 --> 01:06:08.349
know not everybody grew up with the same back

01:06:08.349 --> 01:06:11.190
uh -huh that's right all right so it's important

01:06:11.190 --> 01:06:13.690
to you know that we share this knowledge and

01:06:13.690 --> 01:06:15.969
if you believe this stuff it's not necessarily

01:06:15.969 --> 01:06:20.420
anything on you If you believe that, you have

01:06:20.420 --> 01:06:22.579
a difference of opinion. Talk with us. Discuss

01:06:22.579 --> 01:06:25.639
it with us. We're not going to be like, you idiot.

01:06:26.980 --> 01:06:28.820
We're going to be like, hey, let's talk about

01:06:28.820 --> 01:06:31.659
it. We're going to have a discussion. As soon

01:06:31.659 --> 01:06:34.900
as you close off discussion is when we lose the

01:06:34.900 --> 01:06:44.400
ability to be human. Yeah. I think we'll wrap

01:06:44.400 --> 01:06:47.269
it up here pretty quick. I think it's important

01:06:47.269 --> 01:06:52.710
to know that it's really easy to with all this

01:06:52.710 --> 01:06:55.809
to try to get involved in saying, oh, I'm this

01:06:55.809 --> 01:06:57.849
denomination, this denomination. I'm not saying

01:06:57.849 --> 01:07:00.409
that that's dangerous. I'm saying it's dangerous

01:07:00.409 --> 01:07:04.090
only if you say that that denomination is the

01:07:04.090 --> 01:07:09.909
only way truth. I think even I do just I think

01:07:09.909 --> 01:07:12.909
you can read this and see that the foundation

01:07:12.909 --> 01:07:17.389
of Christianity is Jesus. Faith in Jesus Christ

01:07:17.389 --> 01:07:21.309
and who he is. Like I said earlier, there's non

01:07:21.309 --> 01:07:23.250
-negotiables to Christianity, and that's not

01:07:23.250 --> 01:07:26.409
just my opinion. That is decided over history

01:07:26.409 --> 01:07:30.190
of Christianity, agreed by Catholics, Orthodox,

01:07:30.630 --> 01:07:33.829
Protestants, Anglicans, Lutherans, Methodists.

01:07:33.929 --> 01:07:37.730
There is a standard to these are the non -negotiables

01:07:37.730 --> 01:07:42.409
to Jesus and following Jesus. These are non -negotiables.

01:07:44.110 --> 01:07:51.530
With that, I'd say that I was born into a Christian

01:07:51.530 --> 01:07:54.050
household as a pastor's kid. I actually grew

01:07:54.050 --> 01:07:57.630
up very Pentecostal, very charismatic. And over

01:07:57.630 --> 01:08:00.190
time, it's been kind of funny. Over time and

01:08:00.190 --> 01:08:04.110
over the years, studying, reading, and learning

01:08:04.110 --> 01:08:06.530
more, I've fell into a little bit more of an

01:08:06.530 --> 01:08:13.179
Anglican ideology, which is fine. just as Protestantism

01:08:13.179 --> 01:08:17.359
or Catholics or Orthodoxy, like we'll have variable

01:08:17.359 --> 01:08:19.960
discussions regarding the little things that

01:08:19.960 --> 01:08:27.020
changes how we are like little, I would say little

01:08:27.020 --> 01:08:29.399
things in a sense of like how we interact with

01:08:29.399 --> 01:08:31.779
certain things like the, the saints are interacting

01:08:31.779 --> 01:08:35.800
with Mary or interacting with each other in a

01:08:35.800 --> 01:08:43.750
way that's uniform. So I'll, And my side of this

01:08:43.750 --> 01:08:48.710
and say that with this, do your research, read,

01:08:48.750 --> 01:08:53.829
read and study Christian history. Don't be afraid

01:08:53.829 --> 01:08:56.770
to research. Research strengthens the foundation.

01:08:57.069 --> 01:09:00.149
If it's truth, it will strengthen you. If it's

01:09:00.149 --> 01:09:02.409
false, then you'll get away from it. That's the

01:09:02.409 --> 01:09:05.550
beauty of truth is that there's an ultimate truth

01:09:05.550 --> 01:09:08.569
out there. And you studying and researching will

01:09:08.569 --> 01:09:11.260
only build your foundation on that truth. Yeah,

01:09:11.260 --> 01:09:14.279
I agree. And I think that's true. You said, you

01:09:14.279 --> 01:09:17.020
know, you can say, oh, it's better to say you're

01:09:17.020 --> 01:09:19.319
a Christian. As soon as you start doing that,

01:09:19.380 --> 01:09:21.600
like, you know, if you have a bad taste in the

01:09:21.600 --> 01:09:23.920
mouth from different churches or whatever, but

01:09:23.920 --> 01:09:25.340
it's like, it doesn't matter. At the end of the

01:09:25.340 --> 01:09:27.479
day, you know, like I can say, I started as in

01:09:27.479 --> 01:09:31.319
the Nazarene church and now I'm more, you know,

01:09:31.340 --> 01:09:37.449
of that. vineyard -y Baptist. We're more spirit

01:09:37.449 --> 01:09:40.810
-leading, you know, and more like that, which

01:09:40.810 --> 01:09:44.789
is, you know, just where I'm at now. Pentecostally.

01:09:45.130 --> 01:09:49.689
And I like that. You know, that's right. My wife

01:09:49.689 --> 01:09:51.689
was more, you know, was raised Nazarene like

01:09:51.689 --> 01:09:53.630
I was, so for her, she's looking like, what the

01:09:53.630 --> 01:09:56.109
heck is, you know, like, this is cool, but like,

01:09:56.149 --> 01:09:58.909
whoa, there's a lot of people like yelling and

01:09:58.909 --> 01:10:01.770
talking and, but, you know, it's different and

01:10:01.770 --> 01:10:04.270
it's, the thing is, like I said, it really comes

01:10:04.270 --> 01:10:06.229
down to it. We believe in Christ died for our

01:10:06.229 --> 01:10:10.210
sins, you know, and that we are believers and

01:10:10.210 --> 01:10:13.050
that's what it matters. It doesn't matter, you

01:10:13.050 --> 01:10:15.810
know, where we worship or whatever. It just matters

01:10:15.810 --> 01:10:19.630
that we worship the one true God. Uh, yep. And

01:10:19.630 --> 01:10:26.170
that's the basis of it all. Um, yeah. Yeah. There's

01:10:26.170 --> 01:10:28.229
still so much more. I feel like we can talk about

01:10:28.229 --> 01:10:31.020
with this, but I think like you said, maybe wrap

01:10:31.020 --> 01:10:33.479
it up in almost this continuation or do a part

01:10:33.479 --> 01:10:37.720
two later on. Yeah, we could do a part two later

01:10:37.720 --> 01:10:41.220
on, maybe actually start delving into the, the

01:10:41.220 --> 01:10:43.579
first couple of generations of Christians and

01:10:43.579 --> 01:10:45.760
what they had to deal with in this sense. And

01:10:45.760 --> 01:10:47.500
even like, you know, because they even said in

01:10:47.500 --> 01:10:49.779
the Bible too, it talks about that early church

01:10:49.779 --> 01:10:52.420
too. And now people were like, I think that one

01:10:52.420 --> 01:10:54.859
couple that was told to give everything, they

01:10:54.859 --> 01:10:56.859
were told to give everything, give all your money.

01:10:57.819 --> 01:11:01.210
And they didn't. And then God went Old Testament

01:11:01.210 --> 01:11:03.970
on him. People say that, you know, and not really.

01:11:04.029 --> 01:11:06.489
God didn't change. God's the same. And then he

01:11:06.489 --> 01:11:09.069
literally, you know, the husband came in. Hey,

01:11:09.149 --> 01:11:11.310
did you give us everything? Of course. Boom.

01:11:11.930 --> 01:11:15.949
Smited. Wife came in. Yeah. Smited. Boom. You

01:11:15.949 --> 01:11:17.270
know, that's what I'm talking about. You know,

01:11:17.270 --> 01:11:20.210
it talks about that God was there. You know,

01:11:20.210 --> 01:11:21.810
it's a different thing because it changes from

01:11:21.810 --> 01:11:24.369
like where you, you know, now you have the Holy

01:11:24.369 --> 01:11:26.729
Spirit with you as well. So I think that's a

01:11:26.729 --> 01:11:29.689
good, yeah. Interesting to talk about that too.

01:11:29.829 --> 01:11:31.189
I mean, there's even scripture that talks about

01:11:31.189 --> 01:11:33.729
the early church. So be interesting to look into

01:11:33.729 --> 01:11:38.069
that as well. Yeah. Check out our blog. There's

01:11:38.069 --> 01:11:39.869
a blog post called is the Bible trustworthy,

01:11:39.989 --> 01:11:42.489
where we go into a little bit more in depth of

01:11:42.489 --> 01:11:45.989
how do we know the manuscripts that we have are

01:11:45.989 --> 01:11:50.590
evidence or accurate and preserved. So check

01:11:50.590 --> 01:11:53.329
that out when you get the chance. You better

01:11:53.329 --> 01:11:56.310
check it out. Jason works hard on a lot of this

01:11:56.310 --> 01:12:00.590
stuff, everybody. Please do. I check it all out

01:12:00.590 --> 01:12:02.829
too. And then we talk about it, but you guys

01:12:02.829 --> 01:12:04.210
can check it out too. We're going to, you know

01:12:04.210 --> 01:12:06.890
what? I'll read it to you too. Little girl, you're

01:12:06.890 --> 01:12:10.630
going to be equipped and ready. Exactly. You

01:12:10.630 --> 01:12:12.470
know, talk about that. It's cool. It's like actually,

01:12:12.550 --> 01:12:16.869
uh, it's a hospital. We are our nurse that we

01:12:16.869 --> 01:12:20.729
had this really nice lady, older lady, but I'm

01:12:20.729 --> 01:12:22.770
more talking about this. I'm like, yeah, talking

01:12:22.770 --> 01:12:25.279
about. you know oh it's friday i'll go like we'll

01:12:25.279 --> 01:12:28.239
get back to time for church on sunday and it

01:12:28.239 --> 01:12:29.779
was like saturday i think we were getting out

01:12:29.779 --> 01:12:32.279
of the hospital she was a nurse she's like oh

01:12:32.279 --> 01:12:34.699
i just got done with doing a whole week of vbs

01:12:34.699 --> 01:12:39.310
vacation bible school my husband's a pastor I'm

01:12:39.310 --> 01:12:41.430
like, Oh sweet. Before we leave, you get to pray

01:12:41.430 --> 01:12:45.210
for my little girl was pray. And like, it doesn't

01:12:45.210 --> 01:12:47.029
matter. I don't know what church, you know, she's,

01:12:47.029 --> 01:12:48.850
I'm a, we're a Christian. It didn't talk about

01:12:48.850 --> 01:12:50.449
church and all this. And I said, this is what

01:12:50.449 --> 01:12:53.390
we do. And, you know, and being able to pray

01:12:53.390 --> 01:12:56.909
from day one is cool. And like I said, it is

01:12:56.909 --> 01:12:58.609
the community that you build and everything.

01:12:59.170 --> 01:13:02.550
Yeah. No, I think definitely it's a heck. Just

01:13:02.550 --> 01:13:04.409
wrap it up. I mean, we go on for a good little

01:13:04.409 --> 01:13:08.090
bit too. So, uh, yeah you want to pray this out

01:13:08.090 --> 01:13:10.189
you want to i pray this out about the last two

01:13:10.189 --> 01:13:13.329
times so i think this is your turn yeah no i'm

01:13:13.329 --> 01:13:19.069
100 repeat repeat now i'm down to do it because

01:13:19.069 --> 01:13:22.109
um this is a topic that i hold close dear and

01:13:22.109 --> 01:13:26.090
near to my heart so i'm down all right lord i

01:13:26.090 --> 01:13:27.750
thank you for the time that we get to spend together

01:13:27.750 --> 01:13:32.989
i thank you for your daily provision in our lives

01:13:32.989 --> 01:13:36.739
that we have food, we have house, we have shelter,

01:13:36.920 --> 01:13:39.279
we have transportation. I thank you for everything

01:13:39.279 --> 01:13:42.319
in our lives that you provided for us. I pray

01:13:42.319 --> 01:13:47.039
that you continue to move in us, use us, and

01:13:47.039 --> 01:13:50.779
I pray that we can advance your kingdom, that

01:13:50.779 --> 01:13:55.319
you guide us in your will, not ours. I thank

01:13:55.319 --> 01:13:57.859
you that we're able to sit here and discuss this

01:13:57.859 --> 01:14:03.619
freely without persecution, without fear of persecution,

01:14:03.840 --> 01:14:07.500
that we get to live in freedom and freedom of

01:14:07.500 --> 01:14:13.039
sin through you. I thank you for the preservation

01:14:13.039 --> 01:14:17.859
of biblical ideology as well as biblical truths

01:14:17.859 --> 01:14:20.359
over the years and that you've had your hand

01:14:20.359 --> 01:14:23.159
in it through the whole way. And I thank you

01:14:23.159 --> 01:14:25.979
for that. And I thank you that you are. alive

01:14:25.979 --> 01:14:29.020
today as you have been forever past and forever

01:14:29.020 --> 01:14:31.260
future, that you are there for us, that your

01:14:31.260 --> 01:14:34.619
spirit strengthen us, guides us. And I pray that

01:14:34.619 --> 01:14:37.140
we glorify you in everything we do. I pray that

01:14:37.140 --> 01:14:40.319
this podcast, as well as our conversations, have

01:14:40.319 --> 01:14:44.819
nothing to do outside of glorifying you. That

01:14:44.819 --> 01:14:47.819
is all the glory to you forever. That is not

01:14:47.819 --> 01:14:51.260
our ministry, but your ministry that we are sharing.

01:14:51.399 --> 01:14:53.840
And I thank you for your grace and I thank you

01:14:53.840 --> 01:14:56.359
for your love. And I pray that you continue to

01:14:56.359 --> 01:15:03.600
use us to expand your kingdom. Jesus name. Amen.

01:15:04.500 --> 01:15:08.020
Guys, this has been the GDP show and I'll see

01:15:08.020 --> 01:15:09.640
you on the flippity flop. Bye.