Hello! Hey there! Happy Thanksgiving! Happy Thanksgiving!
It's Thanksgiving and... 30 dirty and dying?
Pass the cranberry sauce! We're having mashed
potatoes! All the turkey looks great! Thank you
for loving me! Thank you for being there! Everyone's
thanking! the whole world's thanking you thanking
us for thanking you kill the turkey i've been
watching non -stop recently i'm on a big bobs
burgers cake i'm a big bob burger fan me too
i love it who's your favorite linda i think linda
i also really love louise she's great yeah and
there's something really amazing about bob just
going oh my god i did such a good impression
welcome to Thanksgiving episode of 30 During
and Dying. It will probably have a little less
singing than the Thanksgiving episodes of Bob's
Burgers, but we will do our fucking best. We
can always make something into a sing -song.
I'm sure we can. It's gonna be a little harder
today, though, because we decided... We decided
to do a real talk about family. So sometimes
on Thanksgiving, we've done like games and things
for people to play along with. But we've done
a lot of games recently. So if you're more into
listening to that on your holiday, we've got
that for you to just listen to other episodes,
in addition to this one. We thought this would
be a good one because we're doing a real talk
about going no contact and cutting people off.
And sometimes that happens with family members.
And that can be hard for the holidays. Yeah,
it's the holidays. It's Thanksgiving. Christmas
and other winter holidays are coming up. So if
you are someone who has gone no contact or you're
considering going on contact, this is a relevant
topic for this time of year because you're probably
dealing with the I don't want to say the fallout,
but like, it's not that it's sometimes it doesn't
feel that different when you're just going through
your life on a random Tuesday. But when it's
the holidays and holidays are known to be family
oriented, it can be a struggle to kind of navigate
that. this is going to be part of it like like
what holidays look like from this point on if
you've always had holidays with family members
that you're not having a part of your life anymore
so uh we've both had our experiences with going
no contact and cutting people off whether it's
family friends whatever And I do think as you
get this one of those topics where with our real
talks, we try to think about things that have
shifted or maybe the dynamics have changed as
you're getting into this stage of life. And I
think this is certainly one of those because
you're kind of settling down into your own life
and family or whatever. And figuring out how
much of like, your young life, your childhood,
it can be hard to figure out what you want to
carry on with and what you want to not. because
it's easy to just go along to get along, but
maybe you don't want to do that anymore, you
know? This is usually when those kind of decisions
start to come out. So we thought we'd talk about
it. So happy Thanksgiving. I maybe wouldn't recommend
playing this during dinner. Or maybe do and maybe
it can get a conversation you can just leave.
Yeah, that's true If you really need a reason
to fucking bounce, I guess you could just play
this loud on a Bluetooth speaker. Loud and proud.
Yeah. But I mean, honestly, if this is maybe
one of your first holidays or thanksgivings after
going no contact and you're questioning your
decision and you feel a little weird about it,
maybe this will help, I don't know, make you
not feel so alone and normalize some of the things
that you've been thinking about to make this
decision. So it's definitely something that we
have experience with. So we're just trying to
kind of, you know, talk about it, spread some
information about it, not, I mean, we'll use
sources and things, but also just our own experiences
and what we know. And maybe this will help somebody
just not feel so alone. They're not feel so like
crazy. Yeah, guilty. And like, you're the crazy
one for even considering this or doing this if
you're going no contact with someone. But first,
first, we're gonna have a little fun. And we're
gonna go back in time. All right, so it is 2013
2010s. Yep, quite a decade. It was my deck my
like time in college, like ending high school
and going into college. So it was near the end
of my college. Gotcha. But yeah, so like young
adulthood, having some fun. You know, I met Mike.
That's fun for you. Yeah, I didn't. I mean, I
met him probably probably I didn't meet my I'm
sure he came to movie theater. So 2013 was actually
the year that I left the movie theater. Because
I graduated high school and went into college.
So I was back for like holidays and breaks and
stuff for the first year. And then after that,
I don't think I came back. So I probably did
meet him, but I probably didn't get to know him
until a little later. Yeah, and we did Mike and
I like came to your college. That's true visit.
But I think that was like after I stopped coming
back. I think so. I feel like that was 2014 or
2015. Even maybe. Yeah. I was with somebody else,
a boyfriend and I was not with that person in
2013. Okay, because you were with that person
we visited. Yes, because we went to a bar. It
wouldn't have been in 2013. I don't think we
traveled together at that point. Yeah. I mean,
probably not, right? No, not at the beginning.
No. So yeah, in 2013, I was dating someone else
from the movie theater, actually. Yeah, I have
a picture on my social media that I went back
and found where I tagged this person. Because
I don't think anybody knew at this point. Well,
no one knew until it was over and it got weird.
Where I was in a hot topic, and I found a mask
of the... I think they're called the Weeping
Angels from Doctor Who. Never watched it. I didn't
either, but he was really into it. There's something
about a telephone booth box. They time travel.
And there's different doctors, big changes. I
mean, are we Doctor Who? Like, we time travel.
Yeah, we're back in time right now. We cry a
lot. I think you're an angel. Thank you. You're
welcome. I did cry today. Of course you did.
But no, they were like statues or something.
I don't know. But it was a mask. And I put it
over my face and posted it and I tagged him.
But that's actually how I found out that I was
blocked like several years later. It's going
back and it's no longer Yeah, it's just his name.
And I was like, spent like 10 years. But yeah,
so I was on the social medias. I have some posts
Alright, so one thing I can say for sure is bitmoji
was fucking killing it. I have a Thanksgiving
one Look at me cute ass little pilgrim. I also
have one that says I'm definitely calling in
sick today I was I posted a bunch about how I
was sick. Oh my god. We were just sick sick sick
sick I have this one that I have no idea why
I posted this. I love my family. I'm really lucky
to have such great support and love in my life.
Just a thought of life. Smiley Faith. I posted,
I really need a day between Saturday and Sunday.
Me too. Now more than ever. I also posted one
that I'm like, I want to punch myself in the
face because it's, God, I need a vacation. Bitch,
shut up. No, you don't. I was fucking 19. My
life was a vacation. This was before I had my
breakdown. So you were still killing it. Yeah,
I wouldn't what did I need a vacation from? Honestly,
other than like my childhood, which I got because
I moved away. Yeah. Now I need a vacation. Now
I need five days between Saturdays. You know,
week and week. Yeah. Oh, I also acted in a haunted
house. I think I saw I think I went to it. Yeah,
I acted in it for two years. So 2013 would have
been the second and last year. I don't remember.
I think it was the second year that I went to
it. I don't think you went when I was doing it.
You don't think so? No, I don't think so. Oh.
Um, but I did I acted into the year before and
then I actually came back from college to act
in this because I really enjoyed doing it. They
were great. I was a so this the second year I
would have been they put me in the blood room.
Nice. And I was in a like a white hospital gown
and I was going blood. And I was in like a like
a bunk bed, for lack of a better word, and I
would kind of like, reach out or like throw myself
out of the bunk bed. And I really fucked myself
up a little bit. I was committed. Mike has bruises
all over his arms. Yeah, I was fucked up. Like,
I remember they like the first year especially,
because they always give you like bruises around
your eyes. And they did that kind of stuff. But
after the first couple days, I didn't need any
more makeup. I was just fucked up. I was like,
I'm bleeding. I feel like 2013 was the start
of well, I always made stupid posts. Absolutely.
But I meant like my jokes. Oh, yeah. But I put
I wonder if caterpillars know they're going to
fly someday or they just start building a cocoon
like oh my god, why am I doing this? My favorite
thing you ever posted. I love it every time you
say it. Our friend from the movie theater, Dan.
posted a link to one of those onion articles,
those satire articles, and it was too meat like
on my timeline because I think we were making
fun of this movie. But it was poor bastard who
just wanted to see After Earth is really taking
some shit from a theater employee. I love that.
I said, I say this a lot. But it's seriously
crazy to think about how much has changed in
a single year. To look back at this time last
year, who I was with, what I made a priority,
I'm just lucky to have so many people in my life
who care about me, support me, and push me through
everything. I'm seriously almost always happy
now. I'm never going back. And I didn't. No,
you didn't. Not really. Not, not to that. I mean,
you weren't ever quite as insufferable as you
were before you met Mike. Yeah, it's some some
fun like guest appearances, but it was never
that bad again. I will say there was the when
you were Joshua You were fine, but I really hated
that time. I think cuz I didn't like him Yeah,
I always thought he was a fucking weirdo not
because of you like I knew him godspeed But like
I'm waiting cuz like I still have I still have
him on Instagram So like I'll see like when he
posts that like I never I'm not gonna I don't
delete people I do immediately I don't speaking
of cutting people off I delete people on the
internet and on in real life I don't you're dead
to me even if like nothing happened see and here's
the thing though like He didn't do anything wrong.
Yeah, but and like I still like cared about him
I just knew that it wasn't yeah like between
us and it wasn't gonna work and I was gonna treat
him poorly it was all me and like cliche as that
sounds. It's not you, it's me. It literally was.
Yeah, and I was mature enough. But to be fair,
he to cut it off. It was weird. I would have
been really unhappy if he would have ended up
with him. Just like I would have never offered
to like double date. We never have. No, but like
if Mike comes over and hangs out, if we go do
like, I don't I don't worry about that at all.
If you were still with Joshua, I would be like
Justin, just just like lock yourself in a bedroom,
you're gonna make him cry. I would make him cry.
You know what I mean? Mike can hang. Well, Joshua
cried at the drop of a hat. I'm sure of it. Anyways,
anyways, but no, I like to I like to help people
and the one time I didn't and the one time I
was like, maybe we could be friends again someday.
They blocked me. So and I don't even understand
why like nothing happened. They've locked me
years later. I don't know, man, because we had
talked a few times like not hit a you know like
rekindling kind of way but just chit chat or
like commenting on posts nothing flirty at least
to me it wasn't yeah um but then after that i
was blocked and i don't know why the world may
never know no anyways 2013 i posted um here are
10 things that most people don't know i love
this i'm sure we've done this before but i want
to do it again tell me the things okay i want
to see if i know them about you number one Okay.
Or if they're still true. I find this extremely
hard to do because I feel like I'm a very open
person. You are. Two, I don't wear makeup. That's
also true. And I know that about you, though,
because I can see your face. Three, I take baths,
not showers. Okay. I do prefer baths. I don't
quite fit as I used to. A little bit more difficult
because I'm like this, but also the bath at grandma's
when I lived with grandma was significantly bigger.
Well, that was like an older house those baths
and it was it wasn't a bath shower combo. It
was just a bath. Oh, I got you. So like it was
a larger bath. So I was all about the bath. I
prefer here's the thing. I take way more showers.
But to me, it's easier to like just hop in the
shower. Yeah, to clean yourself and then leave.
Yes, I love to take a bath. Yeah, and I can also
take a very efficient bath. Like I can take a
bath almost as quickly as I can take a shower.
Once I'm in there, but I like to relax. I like
the bubbles, I like it to be scalding hot to
where my skin is red. It steams. It steams. If
I'm not sweating, I'm not having a good time.
If it doesn't look like I am cooking myself,
like there's steam coming off and I'm sweating
and I'm suddenly rotisserie chicken. It's not
a good bath. Yeah, but I actually said this the
other day to someone I was like, I love the idea
of getting in a bath and just relaxing and chilling
and I will do it. But I can't stay in there for
very long because I'm just like after like five
or 10 minutes. I'm like, oh, I'm in there for
like an hour. See, I used to do that until it
gets cold and I'm uncomfortable. No, I constantly
like read. Add hot water. Oh, yeah, I'll do that,
too But I just find myself I used to do that,
but now it's like I enjoy it I like it But if
I try to just like take a bath for the hell of
it after I've been in there for a few minutes
I'm like I could go Yeah, and then I do I'm just
reading or tick -tocking I I read some but then
even after that I'm like man I would love to
just get out and get into bed. Yeah So anyways,
um number four I'm honestly not looking forward
to quitting movie theater when I find a big girl
job. Seriously, you loved it. I loved it. And
I'm so and I still think about it to this day.
I still have dreams that I'm working there. I'm
not gonna lie. I love that for you. Five and
I hate that I even said this. Okay, I almost
don't want to say it. Say it. Despite what I
say. I don't mind country music deep deep down.
It's not bad, Courtney. I like the country pop.
y 'all alternative yeah yeah or the or the crap
the country rap um i hate that i said this i
hate that i said all of this yeah me too number
six one day i would just like to be a stay at
home mom we literally just had a conversation
about you getting your uterus sucked out so that's
insane um i don't oh my god i want to kill myself
from this okay I'm the type of girl that would
want to play Call of Duty or other games like
that. Liar. Duty. Are you shitting me right now?
Breaking news, she's not like other girls. I'm
not like other girls. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah.
She wears short skirts. I wear t -shirts. I mean,
I did. I never, like, wore short skirts. I was
too fat. Does that make you special? No. Maybe
fat. Although I did, there was a Call of Duty
game, I think, that I played. And it was like
zombies or something. I've no I've never played
it and I never intended to either. So I did play
that. I was never that kind of poser. Whatever.
I'd rather wear pants over a dress or skirt any
day. Who says I can't wear my converse? See,
here's the thing though. Now, I'd rather wear
skirts and dresses because I don't want to wear
pants. Here's the thing. I'm not going outdoors.
So no pants here. I mean, I'm wearing pants today,
but I regret it. The sun is so stupid. I can't
wait. This will be the finale. No, there's two
more. Okay, well... Nine. I love the smell of
ground beef when it's cooking in the skillet.
I smell like beef. I smell like beef. Okay. And
then ten. I creep better than the FBI. You fucking
do. I do. Like, if you want a number, just like
my status and I'll give you one. I want five.
Give me the number five. A combo meal. Okay,
so... Billboard list. Blurred lines. Oh shit.
I know you want it. Look, that's it's a terrible
song But it's also very fun if you don't think
about what it's saying it is It's a it's a it's
a it's catchy. Yeah, and I hate that But I also
when it came out didn't even think about it,
you know No one did I we did a whole unit on
in one of my gender studies classes. I was like
the fuck This is about oh my god Is this fucking
play about us? I also heard that in the making
of the music video, the girl who played the person,
he was really fucked up too. That doesn't surprise
me. I mean, allegedly, whatever, but that doesn't
surprise me. Get Lucky by Daft Punk. That was
pathetic. But I know... I'm up all night to get
some. I'm up all night for good fun. I'm up all
night to get lucky. Came out in 2012, but the
Taylor Swift song, I Knew You Were Trouble. I
knew you were trouble when you walked in. Shame
on you. I don't know. I know the goat. To places
you've never been. That was one of my favorite
memes. Yeah. That was still top tier. We Can't
Stop. We can't stop. And we won't stop Also wrecking
ball I came in like a wrecking ball I never hit
so hard in love That song like really fucks with
her like she barely sings it now What was about
wasn't it about her like marriage and stuff?
Yeah, I get it He couldn't accept her for who
she was. I don't think so either. He was always
trying to make her be less Don't ever let anybody
make you be less Even family Exactly. Should
we just go into it? Because that was a good segue.
It really was. Hey, thanks for listening to 30
dirty and dying the show for millennials by millennials.
We get real about chronic illness, burnout, nostalgia,
and why we aren't exactly thriving. If that sounds
like you join us every Thursday for new episodes.
Now back to the show. Today we're talking like
cutting people off going no contact and You know,
I think one thing that I'd start out with is
just saying that I don't think it's anything
that anyone takes lightly. I think sometimes
because it's becoming more in like the the everyday
conversation now. But I feel like people maybe
from past generations who are who think it's
fucked up because you should you can't cut them.
They're your family. They're your mom. They're
your dad. Whatever. I think their thought is
that you just suck it up. Having a temper tantrum.
Yeah. And that you're mad. in my experience,
that's how no one does it. Yeah, to go from just
like, I'm not happy. And maybe avoiding a little
bit to going full blown, no contact, like that's
a decision to make. And there's, there are a
lot of steps that go into that. So it's, it's
not something that people do lightly, I don't
think. Yeah, I don't, I personally, well, I've
only gone like, absolutely no contact with one
person. Okay, because they were terrorizing me.
Yes. And this was not a family member. It was
not a family member. Other people I have just
stopped making the effort. Right. Therefore,
we are not talking. Yes. If they reach out to
me, I will most likely respond. Right. But I'm
not being the sole communicator like I was. Yeah.
Therefore, I'm no longer talking. Right. See,
I've got no contact with several people like
a like a large group of family that I feel like
is toxic and not okay and I did that when I was
like a teenager and basically it was just me
because we weren't like close but I was just
I made a decision I was like I do not want I
don't want this influence in my life yeah so
I blocked as many people as I possibly could
from everything and was like don't give them
my number don't talk like I don't want to have
anything to do with them and It hasn't really
been a big deal. Like, as far as specific people,
I did not do that again, go no contact until
I was an adult, and I have no contact with one
of my parents. Not my mom, so. But that, again,
was a decision that was several years in the
making. You know, that was not something that
was done lightly. And most recent. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And it never had a good relationship. always
kind of knew that was how it was going to go
down, but delayed it for a long time. And part
of it was, you know, my parents were together,
my parents were not together together, they were
very off and on. But then it really became more
about like, as much as I knew certain things
about my dynamic with my dad, it was really to
make it to make it that severe was not something
I did lightly, even though I never really questioned
That it should be done. Yeah, I don't know if
that makes sense. You know, I mean, yeah, it
makes sense Like I knew it would happen, but
there were parts of it that were hard. I mean,
it's it's your dad Yeah, like it's still difficult
to like cuz you you want it to be better Yeah,
but at a certain point you have to accept people
for who they are Yeah, and as much as I wanted
this Parental figure in my life that was not
him. Yeah, like it was I couldn't having a dad
and having this dad, you know what I mean? And
I the way I think about it is like, especially
when it's like a family member or a close family
member, like a parent or sibling or whoever is
if they were anybody else, it would be easy.
Yeah, well, it's, it would be it wouldn't, it
wouldn't be looked down upon. Yeah, if it was
a friend or a or a significant other or like
not if it was anybody else and they Behaved us
this certain way that makes you feel like this
treated you this way whatever your reasons are.
No one would say oh my god, but They'd be like
I totally get it. Yeah, you shouldn't have them
in your life Yeah, but because it's family you
had some shared genetic material in there and
all of a sudden it's like but you shouldn't and
it's like I try to think about it at this point
after after having some experience with it is
like That shouldn't matter. I Understand it making
it a bigger decision. Yeah, sure But once you
have gone through all the steps of deciding if
it's if there's anything else to salvage If there's
not that shouldn't matter. Yeah, I don't know.
What what are your thoughts about? You said you
had one good experience with it. I would good
well, I was full circle bullied and harassed
Well, why don't you tell us a little bit about
how you made that decision being it? Not a family
member and I know you need to be vague but be
vague use different names. Whatever So, it was
literally my best friend. Well, one of my best
friends. You guys were really close. Well, technically,
I am definitely no contact with one of them,
not making an effort for the other. Yeah, but
this person, I remember you guys were very close.
Yeah, I lived with her. Yeah. So, it was just
like a flip. Yeah. So quick, because, and like...
And I feel like I didn't even handle things poorly.
I think I did a pretty good job. Like, if it
were a couple years before, I probably might
have reacted poorly to it. Yeah, but because
like, we were adults at that point. Yeah, like,
like if this were like high school friendship,
it would have been a whole nother story. But
like, I feel like I actually handled things pretty
well. But yeah, so like, we lived together, I
moved in with her and her fiance at the time.
I remember. And I knew that they fought a lot.
And I was just like, look, if I move in, and
something happens, right? I will be stuck, because
it's his place. Right. Not hers. Right. And she
was like, don't worry about it, it's gonna be
fine. I'm like, okay, because like, I didn't
pay a whole lot to live there. Right. I remember
you. So I such a long story and I'm going to
try to shorten it as best as I can. plot twist.
They broke up. No. And another plot twist. I
stayed. Yeah, and she suddenly was offended.
I liked him. Yeah, like he wasn't a horrible
person. No relationships end. Yeah. And she Like,
I remember when they would fight, like I would
hide in the stairwell to like listen and sometimes
they brought me up and I'm like, Whoa, like I
was the child, right? I'm like, don't pull me
into this. I'm not like, what about Courtney?
I'm like, I don't fucking know, man. But no,
so like, it was a little awkward at first with
me and him, but then like, we made it work. Like
it was fine. We were just roommates. It was fine.
And like, because of the, they were roommates,
because the situation that I was put in, I wasn't
going to be a dick to him. Like I live, it was
his house and I live there and I needed to make
it okay until I could figure out where I could
go. And I will say, I didn't know, I mean, I
met him. I don't know him, you know, but just,
it was cool of him to not be like, get the fuck
out of here. Yeah, no, he was nice about it.
Yeah. And understanding of like, and I appreciated
it. So, you know, if you don't have beef with
him. Why make yeah, and I'm not a vegetarian
so I ain't fucking scared of him So yeah, so
I was going to be nice to him yeah, I wasn't
gonna be a dick so at one point I Had liked one
of his statuses. Yeah on Facebook and Shit hit
the fucking fan Just petty shit. Just petty shit.
And then it just like turned. And right, I think
before that happened, she started posting with
an ex of mine. Waldo. Waldo. Okay. Where is he?
Where is Waldo? Who fucking cares? Um, and Waldo,
which, which was really funny to me, because
when I was talking to Waldo, she would talk so
much shit about him. At this point. I was long
gone. Because I remember this and you like you
didn't give a shit that they got together. No,
I don't care. You know, weren't like, I mean,
I know you weren't together, but you weren't
like together. No, and at this point, I was back
with Mike. Yeah. So like, I zero fucks given,
right? And like, when I saw that they were like
posting stuff together, I was like, Hey, like,
what's going on with that? Like, just curious.
Yeah. And she was like, Oh, like, he's just like,
helping me like a guy's perspective of the breakup.
And then they like posted a picture together.
And I'm like, like, you can tell me like, it's
okay. Like, I hope that things are okay. Yeah,
if you guys want to talk, you can talk. She's
like, No, just friends, just making it a thing,
making it a thing. And I'm like, whatever, literally
the least of my worries. Yeah. Um, and then the
whole I liked his status, all hell broke loose,
started, say, like, started saying that, like,
I was breaking into their home. Was inking their
cars like crazy shit that I wasn't doing and
I felt so bad because like I was friends with
his sister Yeah, like the as was I? Yeah, and
like I there was one point like I was with Mike
like hours away, right and The sister had like
cuz we were friends texted me and he she was
like, hey, where are you right now? I was like,
oh, I'm like here and she was like, okay, so
then they are lying. I'm like, what are they
saying now? because they started putting her
in the middle of it and like causing issues with
her. And I'm like, that's not fair to you because
that's your family. So it was like you were being,
like you said, harassed. I had to block all of
them on everything. Like when I blocked the phone
number, I ended up having to block her. Like
I changed my email. I want to talk about this
part of it. Because she was emailing me. Because
like we understand, like I get why she was like
completely coming at you, like attacking you.
And it was causing problems with other people
at that point, which is not so like when you
decided I have to completely cut off from this
person. What made you do that? And how did you
go about it? That's what I'm curious for with
like a friend. I as soon as she started saying
that I was doing things that I wasn't Yeah, is
like we can cut it off. Right? Like, you can
talk shit all you want. Like she was saying stuff
like, oh, like you're harassing us and like,
whatever. But when she started saying that I'm
physically doing something when I'm not accusing
you of accusing me of crime. Yeah. That's when
I'm like, no, thanks. So like, that's what I
like, I block them on everything. Every person
that like could have potentially Right. So like
I blocked phone numbers, all that stuff, and
then ended up going to email. Right. So I ended
up changing my email. Right. Because I'm just
like, I can't have you doing this. Yeah. It was
still sometimes happening to the point where,
like when Mike and I got engaged, and I started
our like wedding registries. Yeah. She would,
I did a target one. And everything ended up starting
to be marked as purchased. Yeah, the names that
were being used were people who had died, like
my mom and my grandma, my god, and like people
that she knew that we knew together. Yeah, so
I knew it was her. Right. So I had to get rid
of our target registry. I remember this. But
the thing is, though, like after Mike and I got
married, like nothing's really happened. The
thing is, it's like when someone is so relentlessly
Harassing you and making your life miserable
whether it's directly like that or indirectly
like it is for other people You have no choice
and it's it's people say like no contact is extreme
Why don't you just leave them alone it but they
won't sometimes and that's where it seems like
that was definitely the case here Yeah, like
I had to change everything. Yeah, that's and
like and I've I lost a friend because of it Yeah
it's one of those things that makes people decide
to go no contact when it's it's one thing if
it's affecting you really horribly, but most
of us are really bad at putting ourselves first.
But when it starts to affect other people, like
one thing that made me decide that I needed to
do that to like move forward in my life was I
was like, I don't want this dynamic to affect
my partner. And I was like, I don't want this
to affect him. I don't want this to affect our
family. Like Don't and nothing was like happening
to but just there's a whole thing it creates
this whole toxic environment and you have somebody
in your life that you feel the need to Be no
contact with like again. It's not happening lightly
and it's not happening in a vacuum Thanks for
listening to 30 dirty and dying We really appreciate
your support. And if you want to keep up with
everything we're doing both on and off the air,
you can find information at the link in our bio
on TikTok and Instagram at three zero dirty and
dying. We've got affiliate links. If you want
to support the things we're doing outside the
show, you can get in touch with us, find playlists
that we've made and everything else that you
need to keep up with your favorite millennial
podcast. Now let's get back to the show. There's
a big difference between going no contact and
just sort of separating a little bit, which is
what I'm doing with my dad. Yeah, out of sight
out of mind. Yeah, I mean, for the most part,
I still have them on like social media and stuff.
But yeah, so like, I'm not no contact, right?
It's just, I'm not trying. Because it it's so
it's so weird, though. Like, obviously, I've
said before, like both my parents were alcoholics.
Dad still like made sure he had jobs made sure
he like paid for things like made sure that we
still like Could do what we needed to do. Yeah,
like I still like I got to do karate Like I still
got to do some extracurriculars right because
like he was able to provide for that. So like
we were fine for most of the time like obviously
it's Traumatizing to like get into a car accident
with him and like having to take the keys So
he talked to other person like being an adult
taking care of him a lot of things can be happening
at the same time. Yes but More recently, it's
gotten to the point where I'm just tired of trying
to have a relationship. Yeah, I feel that way
about my dad. He was around. I just feel like
it's two different worlds because as an adult,
I've been able to dive into a lot of his motivations
for doing whatever he did or did not do. And
knowing that with the full picture changes things.
all the other things he did or didn't do or is
or you know what I mean? Yeah, that's part of
what went into my decision. But I get what you're
saying of like, not necessarily worst thing in
the world ever. Yeah, that would make you go
no contact. But as an adult, you have to get
away from that to make your decision of how your
relationship goes. Yeah. So like, it got weird.
Yeah, to where like, it wasn't let's meet up
for breakfast or let's meet up for dinner. Like,
it's not talking to me at all. Yeah. And I'm
like, Oh, Okay, weird. And then I ended up getting
a letter in the mail from him. That pretty much
was, you know, like with alcohol, a they have
to like do their steps. Yeah, and like this step
was like, apologizing, or whatever. And I got
a letter from him that was like really heartfelt.
And like I cried reading it. I'm just like, this
is our chance to get back to like where we were.
Yeah. So like, as soon as I read it, I called
him. And I was just like, I got your letter.
Like, like, I think we should like work on this.
Like, let's get together. Like, let's have dinner.
And he was like, Okay, like, I'll let you know
my schedule. And I was like, Okay, just like,
let me know. And we'll like figure it out. Never
heard from him. Then we got married, Mike and
I. Yeah, I remember I was there. He were there
about 45 seconds. So like that happened. And
I'm just like, whatever. Yeah. Over it. Wedding
happens. we're about to do the daddy -daughter
dance and the mother -son dance. So I go up to
dad and I'm like, we're about to do this. And
he's like, we're leaving. And he left. That's
so fucked up and selfish. And I'm like, you couldn't
stay for three minutes and 29 more seconds? And
I worked so fucking hard to find the perfect
dad song that wasn't about My I'm a daddy's girl.
Yeah type of like wedding dance. Yeah, I found
the perfect song. That's just like your dad I
Worked so hard to find it and I didn't even get
to dance I literally I don't mean to take away
for when I was like going to be married to someone
that time in my life and we talked about wedding
stuff and whatever and I didn't want to get married
at all and I didn't want to do any of that but
when that part came up I was like, what the fuck
am I gonna do like yeah, I gotta play Limp Bizkit
Just one of those days. I think I picked just
like one of I looked up like the lists and I
found the least one that was like, like you said,
like super gushy. And it was Elton John. It was
your song. And I was like, I love Elton John.
He loves Elton John. It's it's a nice song, but
it's not really about that. It's just a nice
song. And okay. Yeah. And then good news, I didn't
marry that fucking guy. And I met a guy who didn't
want to get married at all. So it works out.
Yeah. So yeah, so like, he just left. Yeah. And
I was like, Okay, so I didn't get a dance with
dad. That sucks. And I'm like, I'm not gonna
try anymore. Well, that's a pretty like, this
is what I'm saying. Some of the other stuff that
happens, like, I'm not trying to take away from
his process. I think some stuff can be really
performative. And if you're not willing to actually
go out of your way to do anything beyond a performative
grand gesture that makes you feel really fucking
good, then you're not willing you're not really
doing your part to have a real relationship with
someone. It was easier for me to just like not
try at that point. Yeah, like if he'll message
me on Facebook. Um, I'll message back. Keep it
kind of Yeah, like, I'm not. I'm not saying never
like I'm not gonna cut it off forever. Yeah,
because like I know like he he has his own set
of issues. And I don't think he is. purposefully
being a bad dad, because of other things that
he goes through. Well, maybe that's true. I don't
want to completely go no contact because it's
not like he's trying to manipulate me. Well,
and there's see, there's some of the difference
too. That's a decision you have to make. Yeah,
as how much of this is hurting you hurting your
life hurting things you want to do? And how much
can you deal with? And how much can you not?
It's not it's not hurting my life. Yeah, I'm
not. I'm not I don't have to make decisions based
off of him. Exactly. Whereas in my situation,
I certainly had to do that. Yeah. And it's part
of what went into me being like, I have to it
has to be all or nothing. Yeah, but it's not
like I'm not going to go out of my way to have
a relationship. When it's clear that he necessarily
doesn't care. And again, I don't know if he doesn't
care or if he just doesn't think about it doesn't
matter though. He's not doing it. He's not doing
it. He's not being a dad. Yeah. And that's the
problem. So that's why I'm just like, whatever.
And then I found this, it's actually from a book.
Okay. It was I mean, I saw it on TikTok, but
it's a screenshot of a book. It says the phone
doesn't work both ways because he never calls
and a child should never have to beg their father
for a relationship. I am an afterthought like
an acquaintance he's lost touch with I am the
last thing on his mind. So don't tell me the
phone works both ways to shame me into accepting
his half asked efforts as a father. And then
there's in this it also says I've called and
called and called since I was a child and he
never answers. If I called he would answer. I
don't doubt that. But the sentiment the sentiment
is like, he is not being a father. Well, that's
what I mean. It's not it's not anything that
happens is performative and only so only run
so far where it's convenient. And if it isn't,
it's not happening. No, I understand what you
mean, though, about just like, there is that
level between being somebody's punching bag and
going completely no contact. And that's just
sort of removing yourself. Yeah. And hoping that
There's not a giant blow up or something crazy
that makes you have to go the rest of the way
And I don't think there will be at least for
me. Yeah, I have sort of I've just realized Collectively
over the last few years that this is not a great
person and this is not a person I want in my
life and I'm not mad about some things, but I
don't feel good about them And it's not out of
being pissed off or being mad or wanting anything
bad for that person you know, it's just it can
be a slippery slope depending on what kind of
person you're dealing with. So I've been on both
sides of that and every part of that kind of
spectrum, I guess. Yeah, I obviously the no contact
from being harassed, I have no choice. Yes, because
they weren't listening to logic actually have
another quote. Okay. It says me trying to explain
how some people will never reach out and speak
to you again because they don't have the maturity
to cope with the fact that they did you wrong
and you didn't deserve it since they lack accountability
they will create a false narrative about you
so they don't feel guilty yeah which is literally
what happened because i didn't do anything. But
then all of a sudden, I'm breaking and entering
and I'm egging them and I haven't done a single
thing. It's easier for me to be the bad guy because
they were harassing me. It's literally like putting
a mirror in their face all the time to show them
the consequences of their own actions. So they
can't deal with it. Like I never wished ill of
them. That's such an important part of this that
I don't think people understand. And I'm glad
I'm Very glad that they if if they have a great
relationship good for them like I didn't Want
them to be in a bad relationship if they have
kids and they're happy That's so great. Yeah,
like honestly if Great for them like I'm I'm
happy for them. Yeah, totally it's so like I
don't want like I never wanted it to be like
This petty thing no, and that's what I mean about
both the situation of like trying to just Be
separate but not go no contact but also the going
no -contact part of it most of the time people
don't it's not this like Gotcha or wanting to
hurt the other person. Yeah, it's wanting to
protect yourself. Yeah, I Want I don't sit around
and think like I hope something terrible happens.
Absolutely not To the people that I've got no
contact with but also the people that I've been
in those in -between phases with I have no ill
will I hope you're fine. I guess I don't really
I don't think about it very much I don't really
I'm not sitting there wanting anything negative
for you. Yeah, cuz here's the thing when you
go no contact with someone It's not about them.
No, it's about you. It's about What I'm choosing
to do for my life and how I'm choosing to be
okay and move forward in my life effectively
And yeah, I can't because of you. But I don't
want to do anything to you. I want to do something
for me. It's literally not even about you at
this fucking point. No, it's just I need this
for me. And I hope you the best. Yeah. So I found
a couple things about no contact like from from
psychology today or psychology today. It's by
somebody named Gina Wagner. It's like a like
a op ed kind of thing. It's like an opinion piece,
but it's on psychology today. And what drag or
drew me to it was the subtitle is personal perspective
going no contact isn't trendy. It's survival.
And I think that's important because it's more
talked about now and it's more which I think
is good that we're talking about it and that
it's not this like super taboo thing and that
it's an option for people. I think that's because
people these days are more aware of our mental
health. Yes. So we are quicker to realize when
people are not good for our mental health, and
we are more willing to let it go. Well, in this,
so one of the topics here was, is estrangement
trendy, or are we just more aware? And the writer
said, Some experts suggest that while estrangement
has always been a phenomenon in families It's
only recently being publicly acknowledged and
analyzed in a significant way Because before
I feel like like when I was growing up and there
were people who were no contact with The family
like the extended family it was People just made
them out to be like fucking weirdos and like
there and now I'm the fucking weirdo, but it's
people made them out like they were doing something
wrong. And if you were the no contact person,
I feel like you were maybe ashamed like you felt
like you did something wrong. Yeah, by not being
able or not wanting to put up with it anymore.
Like nobody was shouting that shit from the rooftops.
And now, I think it's I'm not saying we have
to shout it all the time. But if we can't get
past the stigma of it and the shame of it, it's
not going to be effective. And that's what this
next part says. Family estrangement flies in
the face of what we're taught as children honor
your parents families forever blood is thicker
than water Yet people don't usually choose estrangement
out of rebellion resentment or lack of forgiveness
They do it for their safety and emotional well
-being and the well -being of generations that
will come after And some therapists like piece
of advice here is you can forgive a thief, but
that doesn't mean you have to give them a key
to your house That's it right there. That's it
right there. I don't you don't have to hate them
You don't have to not forgive them or resent
them. You can do all that good work. Yeah But
don't have to let them continue route to ruin
your life. Yeah, you don't have to continue to
let them hurt you I Can feel and it's not easy.
No the person who goes no contact either because
it hurt them So much to the point where they
felt they had to yeah like There was one thing
here that I wanted to say. So this was like a
list of things that might happen as you go no
contact. And I didn't keep all of them. But one
was you will doubt your decision. And you will
question yourself until you fully heal, which
it creates a lot of inner conflicts. Yeah. And
you're always going to wonder if you're being
too extreme, or if you're being the problem or
you're not being fair. And, and this is an unloved
child. by default doesn't have a lot of self
-worth or self -trust. going no contact will
feel impossible and that's okay and it's not
something that will be done easily and that's
fair like even though i have not had a good relationship
with my parent that i've gotten no contact with
ever and that i've known that we will go no contact
and that i did not want him in my life and i
accepted him still being in my life for a while
i didn't have to but i did For your mom? Yeah,
for my mom, for my other parent. Even though
I knew those things and when the time came where
I could go no contact, there's still been a grieving
process. It's still hard. It's not something
that I enjoy having to have done, you know? And
this next part says, it's not a linear healing
process. It takes as long as it takes, which
may be years. It's grief. Yeah, it's grief. It
says allow yourself to grieve. practice self
-compassion and self -care and More often than
not you will find yourself adrift and alone after
going no contact with a parent people will judge
you Insist you work on a relationship But the
thing is an abuser or a narcissist or whatever
has no desire to change You cannot have a relationship
with someone who is constantly looking for ways
to hurt you or undermine you so it's like I've
grieved it. I have and there are times even though
it's been Over a year at this point. I think
since I've made the decision and have enforced
it I grieve and I wish I Wish it didn't have
to be this way. Mm -hmm, but I know that it does
So I can't change my mind because I feel bad.
Yeah, you know, I just have to keep going and
Do the work on my end to make it. Okay But like
yeah, I've had moments, especially like during
the holidays and stuff. I you know It was like
my dad and I had a lot in common, some stuff
that has caused a lot of therapy, but superficial
shit, you know, like interests and things. And
sometimes at like holidays and stuff, we would
end up kind of clumped together and talking about
something or watching something. And there've
been a few times since all this that it's been
like, it's almost it's kind of funny. It's like,
my, my mom and Justin would Clump and then my
dad and I because my mom and Justin are like
the same fucking person if people say you marry
your dad No, I married my mom. My mom is my mom
my mom But yeah, they have a lot in common. So
they really get along which is awesome and I
love that but a few times they've like Clumped
when it's just the three of us now, which is
great and I'm not but then they're I don't know
You're just like I think about it. You miss that
I notice it. Yeah, the other thing about going
no contact or putting some space between you
and a person that's that's not really great is
you can after a while really separate out like
appreciate the good times without giving them
a pass for shit like things can be true at the
same time yeah and it's easier to realize that
and to not constantly justify bad behavior and
shit on your own good memories when you get some
space yeah so i guess to wrap up If you're somebody
who's who's thinking about going no contact who's
going no contact who maybe this is your first
Thanksgiving no contact and it looks different
We get it. Yeah, and there are resources out
there, you know to help you kind of navigate
some of this I would always recommend talking
to someone and mental health is for everyone
not just The extreme situations if you're having
trouble navigating something and you want to
talk to someone Do it if you want to talk to
us. We're not professionals. It's in every disclaimer.
I have a social worker. So yeah, I mean, I'm
not trained. I'm not licensed. Yeah. But yeah,
if you want to, you know, weigh in on this conversation
with us, feel free, you can get to you can get
in touch with us on slide into our DMs. Yeah,
slide into our DMs. We'll talk to you. Happy
Thanksgiving. But yeah, I hope you're having
a good holiday. And I hope that this conversation
helps somebody or at least helps normalize. This
thing that happens to a lot of us, especially
as we get older and create our own lives and
family, you know Yeah, so do you have any final
thoughts Courtney? No, okay I think we said it
all I think so. So we will see you guys next
Thursday Just heads up. We're getting close ish
to the end of the season We have a few more episodes
to go. So for all things, you know end of season
Anything else that we may or may not be doing
as we get closer to the holidays you know, make
sure you're following us at 30 dirty and dying
on tik -tok and on Instagram and If you haven't
Please, you know rate us review us on your platform
of choice and share us with your friends We really
want to keep doing this and your guys support
makes that possible and means a lot to us at
the same time So please yes what we want for
Thanksgiving. Yeah for the holidays our gift
from you guys is listens listens and ratings
and shares and all that stuff. And you know,
we're thankful for you. You're our well, my favorite
thing at Thanksgiving is a tie between deviled
eggs and stuffing. Oh, so y 'all are my for a
deviled egg. Yes. We're slots for you. Y 'all
are deviled eggs and our stuffing and our rolls
and our cranberry sauce and all the good stuff.
So all the carbs, all the all the things. Yes.
Thank you so much for being here with us. We're
thankful for you and have a great holiday. Bye!
I want them to scoot me raw.