Hello and welcome, and thanks for listening to Carbon Climates, an energy podcast dedicated
to discussing all things energy, carbon and sustainability. We also like to talk about
what's getting hot, besides from our planet. I'm your host Enya, and today I'm joined
by my Carbon Climate and co-host Orla. Hi. Thanks for having me on. Of course, of course.
So we actually know each other through a previous podcast guest who recommended you and I was
like, yes, of course. But yes, that would be okay. I was going to say Max's episode
title, but I'm still working with it. Like it has to be pundits. It is like how do you
like, you know, merge the Ksipsey in there. Like, you know, yeah, but yeah, thanks for
coming on. It's great to have you. So you work for our, you are a former structural
engineer and you are, yep, former structural engineer. And now you're more in the role
of sustainability engineer. But yeah, so we'll be delving into that more that shortly. But
yeah, can you first tell us what are you doing this weekend? What are you even up to? This
weekend, I'll be recovering from last weekend. I'm selling bank holiday money. That was lovely.
And I'm starting to become a real advocate for a four day week. So much done. So yeah,
I look, I remember like when it was like the serious discussions, like companies are going
on to four day weeks. I'm like, oh, yeah, that's nice. I genuinely thought it was going
to happen, but I doubt it. Like flexible working is quite enough for now. I think. Yeah. You
like, you work it out where it's like, okay, I get like 18 holidays and they're back every
Monday off and tonight until. I know some people who do that, they book every Friday in the
summer off. So they just have like eight four day weeks. Oh, very good. So yes. So your
job title now is sustainability engineer. Yes. Although there's a bit of back and forth
with that. So I got into it through the London team. So maybe spoilers, but I started off
in the structural team in 2022 came on as a grad and then that was September, 2022.
And by Christmas, I think I'd agreed to do this comment with the London team. So we have
a London team that handles all that carbon assessments, ream, well, all of the sort of
sustainability aspects. And they were looking for people to come into their life cycle assessment
team because I'd done a placement there before. So I did my six month uni placement there
and while I was on placement, I did my dissertation, which is a terrible system. So I have to put
one work laptop down and pick up your uni laptop and dissertation in your evenings.
It's just never ending. Yeah. So if anyone from Trinity is listening, can you change
that? So yes, my bachelor's dissertation had been on the embodied carbon advocate study
art building and I'd done a lot of the optioneering and looked into how carbon impact was affected
by design changes. And so this is a comment they thought was a good fit for me. And I
started that in May and never left. So to run back to your question, everyone in the
London team is a sustainability consultant. Whereas in the Belfast team, we thought it
would be better if I stick with engineer because it fits better with my degree and my experience.
Okay. Yeah. Very, very interesting, very interesting stuff. So how long have you been in this sector?
Really tricky question. So yeah, I'm officially sustainability team since last May, so a year.
And then before that, six months in structures plus a six month placement. And before that,
I worked in a newspaper. So completely different. Wow. Like that's very interesting. And I know
you probably can't say which newspaper, but what part of the newspaper is it like, you
know, I was the picture desk. So I was the picture desk cover on a Saturday and I used
to come up from Dublin because I went to Trinity College Dublin. I used to come up on the bus
on Friday afternoon and work most Saturdays and then get the bus back down. But it was
such a nice and interesting and well paid part time job. And it was so much better than
working in the bar. Yeah, I had done before that. You just kept up and did that most of
the weeks of my five years. That is so good. Are you really good at like, you know, placing
like picture placements like, you know, say if you're designing a report, you're like,
no, this goes here at the center or. Yes, I like to think so. It was a really strange
job. So it was like, I remember getting a request. You would have to find suitable pictures,
four stories. And I remember once they wanted one of Justin Bieber looking particularly
like a lizard. So, you know, you could send an R being like, does he look lizard enough?
I'm not sure. Oh, my goodness. Like that is class. Are they hiring like, you know, no.
Oh, it's brilliant. So see when you were at school, did you ever envisage yourself in
this role? Oh, my goodness. No, no, I remember because I was very thinking about art and
music. I remember that anytime there was like a STEM event, me and my friends used to look
at each other and roll our eyes being like, oh, STEM. There's so much focus on STEM. What
about STEM? So I was fairly good at physics and maths, but it wasn't my passion. And I
was actually torn right up until my A level results came in. So I applied through UCAS
and through CAO. And this was my genius thinking at the time was that I apply for engineering
courses through UCAS and my top CAO choice was actually history at Trinity. So at UCAS,
I think my top choice was structural engineering in Edinburgh and structural engineering in
Queens and CAO was Trinity history. And my A levels ended up slipping. So I did not get
what I wanted to get. Partially maybe because I met my current partner like three months
before exams. Instead of us studying, like we met in the public library and instead of
us studying, we would go on like three hour lunch breaks just to have the whole time.
So you know, oh, that's so romantic. It was worth it. But you know, I would like that
maths grade. But yeah, so I ended up not getting the points for structural engineering in Queens.
I was offered civil, but that stage I didn't realize that you could do civil. You could
go into structural with a civil degree, which you totally can. And I didn't get the points
to get into Trinity history. So I got put into Trinity engineering and then I ended
up picking there because I always said Trinity was just far away enough. So that's it. And
yeah, the reason I applied for those was basically because I knew that with the physics and the
maths, I could get into a useful career, but I was in no way, in no way, you know, drawn
towards it. I had no clue that I would enjoy it so much. It was a complete shot in the
dark.
That's, yep, that's really great to hear. And that's like, kind of like the point I
want to bring across this podcast, like you can get through like into the energy industry,
into the engineering industry, through like any kind of like any pathway. Like even one
of the pathways I kind of realized and I was like, oh, that sounds really cool. The like
part-time apprenticeship, like, yes, like once you go to uni one day a week and then
four other days a week and you were like, you know, in a work, whatever it was. Because
I don't know if you find it, but see coming out of uni and then they're just like, yeah,
practical experience. Like, you know, definitely a must. I'm like, how am I supposed to get
this practical experience?
Exactly. We have a few apprentices in our office and it's funny because they're only
a few years older than me. The ones we currently have, they're great, Jack, and they have so
much more experience than I have. And you know, they're really valued member of the
team and they know everything. And I think for a while we also had a program where you
could try different disciplines. So they were maybe part of the structures team for a while
and now part of the disciples team. So they've gained all that experience. They don't have
a student loan, but it is a longer process. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's why placements
in uni are so valuable as well. Because I always saw it as partially my six months long
interview getting to Arath, but also the other way around. Like if I didn't like them, then
I knew I did nothing about it.
Yeah. You didn't have to like, yeah. Even like it's interesting to say about placements.
Like I did my placement in the health service here in the estates department and I like
I loved like learning about buildings, loved all the data with it. And it was kind of like
what did the calculations or what about like, you know, the background, like, you know,
like what are the results for this?
Yeah. I did a placement with architect actually in sixth year. I loved it. So I have always
loved buildings. Yeah. Just because they're beautiful. And I've always been fascinated,
you know, walking through Rome, looking at ancient buildings, you know, wondering how
they're still standing and looking into the materials and the aesthetics of it. And I
thought architecture was going to be it. But when I did the placement with the architect,
I was like, I need to know more. So it kept the drawings kept saying refer to structural
drawings. So I was like, well, you know, what's happening here? They were talking about how
tricky a certain site was because it was on a ledge or something. Didn't understand it
at the time, but I was so interested. They couldn't tell me. And then they were like,
well, this is what structural engineer does and showed me a page of calculations scare
me. And I was like, no, I kind of get that. Like, those are the moments that we've done
in physics class. And you all kind of made sense. I was like, right, we'll do that. Give
that a try. Let's go do a five year degree class because that works.
It's funny and it's really great that you're like, OK, I find that type of work. If you
find a connection or you're able to connect with people, do you get this? I understand
it so much better. You won't mind me saying this, but my partner is an architect. And
so he like, you know, we kind of work hand in hand with architects. And I always go to
him, yeah, like, you know, do you like, you know, did you check the S for that? He's like
someone else in the office does that. I'm like, OK, great. Thank you, Matt. Yeah. No.
So yeah, that's really great. Like, thank you for telling us about your background and
experience. Yeah. So just a bit more about yourself because I'm really excited to get
this episode because you're involved in so many sectors. So you're like, I say, you take
a deep side. There were many, many. Yes. Yes. Yes. So you're a sustainable engineer with
Arup. Yeah. And then you're also the past chair of the we were just talking about this
before the podcast episode. I struck E. Yes. Like, so that's the Institute of Structural
Engineers. Yeah. Yeah. OK. And is it Institute of Structural Engineers Ireland or? No. Well,
I start these just Institute of Structural Engineers. And then I was chair of Northern
Ireland and Ireland. So for the first time, we had a combined young members group, which
was a really interesting process, especially seeing as our parent committees were still
separate. Oh, OK. That's class. But brilliant. So yes, you're back. So that I struck like
I struck the like I struck. Yes. I'll add this in. OK. OK. Fine. Sustainability engineer
Arup. And also you're involved with STEM activities. So yes, STEM, science, technology, engineering,
mathematics. But there's the STEM organization and I like and they do a lot of wonderful
activities around like trying to get different. So I want to say just secondary schools. I'm
sure it's primary schools as well. But like school children from like no age to like,
you know, maybe just before uni involved in kind of the STEM areas. Yeah. But yeah, can
you talk a bit about that? Right. Yeah. So I've always been passionate about STEM. I
think looking back, we didn't have anyone come in and talk to us about what civil or
structural or sustainability engineer did. We did have a few people who came in and talked
about engineering in general. But I think it's fair to say that every time it would
be the same sort of person. And I think it's really important when you're younger to see
someone who's like you in the position. You know, anyone can come in and tell you what
they do in a day. But I think you need to be able to see yourself in the position that
they're in, which I never really did, to be honest. And I think what's really important
is to also banish the stereotypes about engineers. So yes, I'm STEM coordinator for the Belfast
office and I'm a registered construction industry training board ambassador as well. So I'm
registered STEM hub and I am a ambassador. So we do a lot of activities through them.
They're really great at coordinating things. And then also through the institution. So
the institution of civil engineers is great at getting large groups of secondary school
children usually around options age to come in. Like there've been a couple of events
at W5 that actually swim to civil engineering and I've really enjoyed taking part in those
and speaking and also integrating current projects. So I think that's where you really
get the children and students attention is when they can get a grasp on what's going
on. So we have the big Belfast transport hub project. So everyone knows that shine new
building in the middle of town, which is shutting all the roads down. It will be very lovely
and glamorous when it opens up so they can relate to that. And then similarly, like we
have Belfast stories project coming up. So it's going to be a new museum. You know what?
Tell it. The big new museum that's going to open in the middle of Belfast will definitely
tie into local schools and show them how we go about the process.
That's yeah, that's really great. And like, I think it's like so important at that age
to get people involved or like interested in this kind of area. Yes. Yeah, because like
you're saying yourself, like, I can't remember anyone really coming in and being like, oh,
yeah, like I want to know. I want to do that. Like I was kind of told, you know, it's kind
of engineering, like, good job. And I'm like, good job. Yeah. Money. Sensible. Yeah. Yeah.
Go do that lecture. I think you know, the stereotypes persist. So I think it used to
be that you didn't see any women in engineering when that's no longer the case. And I feel
like students are aware of that. They don't think that they're going to be the only female.
Yeah. What's also important, I think, is that it's not just one type of person. So I remember
going from my first job interview and a friend who I love very dearly, but it just shows
how stereotypes are ingrained even at university was like to me. Consider being a little less
yourself. She is. She didn't mean it. She's also German, so she's quite right.
She said to me, essentially, you know, I'm quite. I don't take myself too seriously and
I'm quite chubby and bubbly and I like that. That's who I am. And essentially, you know,
people think that you have to be extremely serious. Oh, yeah. Or chinos and you're not
allowed to make any jokes and everyone goes in and puts their head down for the day. And
that's just not what engineering is. I like, I honestly feel like people work so much better
under like someone's like, I can go to them like, you know, like, you know, I'm going
to start so strict they won't shout at me if I make a mistake or it's like, you know,
like, where's the people like maybe not that I'm going to say that I would manage, but
like anyone like has an issue and they would come to me. Yes. I could be like, what's what's
the crack? Like, you know, what's up, lad? Like, you know, let's sort this. Just being
like being friendly and like, you know, being approachable, like, you know, really helps.
The team needs diverse personalities or yes, exactly. It's up. Yeah. For all the same
person is boring. But yeah, no, that's like, that's great. Thank you for the introduction
on that. I'm on Lexis stem. I'll post a link to stem and the episode description that
people can click on if they would like. And I've done this for the past couple of episodes,
but I'm not too sure if the links are getting through because like when I go to click on
it, I'm like, why can't I click on it? It's so fulfilling. It honestly is. And you only
have to do one activity a year to keep your membership. Oh, okay. So you get all of the
newsletters, you get told about all of the events, you have to do very little of it yourself.
And we would go in with our facilitated activities that as a, as a, as a stem ambassador, you
just need to show up. There are plenty of activities that we need help with. And you
know, it's, it's not a long time and you can make such a difference. That's not to get
all emotional. Like I interacted with something like 900 students last year. I didn't, I tried
to keep a spreadsheet to keep track. Oh my goodness. That's class. Yeah. If you can change
just one of their minds. Yeah. I like that's class. That will go on the like with these
episodes, you can say we snippets of like, you know, you can like, like as a preview
of the episode, but that'll be the preview. I have to check my stats. It's like, that's
a fact check.
So we've talked about the activities you're involved in and your role as a sustainability
engineer. So we're also like a sustainability engineers at EPP Energy here as well. See
it Arab, how often like does your job fluctuate from day to day also or like kind of the role
or just what you're involved in?
Yeah. So I feel like it's really self-steering in terms of your career and even what you
want to do day to day and what projects you want to get involved in, which I love. There's
also a little bit of pressure, but you know, if I wanted to just do my life cycle assessments,
which are so lovely and I love with all my heart, but if I wanted to do those day in
day out, I could. But I want to add more strings to my boat and it's very easy to turn around,
especially in a larger company and say, just throw anything at me. So at the minute I'm
getting involved in like reviewing BREEAM evidence. I've done a bit of energy modeling.
I want to get involved in well assessments and well, this year, essentially if something
comes into the Belfast office, I want to give it a go. Like any aspect of sustainability
associated with it, I want to try and take on because so many of the projects I work
on are based in London because for the likes of planning, you have to have such high sustainability
credentials and for example, you have to do a life cycle assessment with the GLA referable
projects in London. Yes. So, you know, there's much more of a push there. Whereas I think
locally it's starting to change, but I want to get more involved in the local sustainability
atmosphere and, you know, local projects. That's what we're finding about the like,
you know, the WLCA. Like I think remember when that first came out a couple of years
ago, unless we were like, what is this? And then it's like, oh, there needs to be a proper
structure for this. It takes an unbelievable amount of time sometimes completely reliant
on the design teams. But yeah, because you're collating so much information and you're constantly
chasing to make sure you have the right information. And then talking about fluctuation, you know,
that's a matter we'll be throwing in the works like for whole life carbon assessments, we
use the RICS, Royal Institute of Chartered Survivors, professional statement. So it's
the closest thing we have to a standard like a Eurocode that you would use in design. Last
one came out in 2017, I think, and it hasn't changed. And then as of July this year, they've
got a revision. So it's gone from 44 pages to about 144 pages. Oh my goodness. And the
process has changed, categories have changed and every RICS, RICS, scope, LCA, which is
all the GLA referable projects will have to be done by this new standard. So, you know,
talking about fluctuation, everything, how I do everything will change in a few months.
So trying to keep up with the industry changing is definitely a huge part of my job.
It's very like one of the big things I want to get done here because you probably noticed
from like working in London and then seeing the London progression around energy regulation
in terms of energy modelling for commercial buildings, we're pretty good in that we do
like, you know, we've got the like near at zero, nearly zero buildings, document and
all. See for domestic, the energy assessment market is so behind in that they're like,
so probably I've come across SAP 2021 and SAP 10. So that's the new energy software
they have to use in England when you're putting in a domestic property. See for here, it's
called SAP 2009 because it came out in 2009 and it hasn't been updated in like 15 years.
And it's just like, wow. And you know what, it'd be fine. Like, you know, be like, right
now, okay, like, you know, this will be updated soon. They're planning to update it next year.
But it really pissed me off because with your APC rating, like, and you probably know, just
bought a house, you probably know, your energy rating, like it can possibly entitle you to
a green mortgage or cash back options. And if you get like a high rating, and then because
our software is out of date, like, hold on, like Cs and Ds could be Bs and As. We don't
know. You can't know something unless you measure it. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I always
feel like we're a few steps behind, which, you know, I think most regions are, but you
see the likes of, you know, people have been talking to Glasgow City Council about implementing
body carbon assessments for high rise buildings. People are starting to catch up. Yeah. And
I find it sometimes frustrating on the London calls because they say for a standard take
25% GDBS replacement of cement. And I'm like, hold on, I think the same one is what we use
here, you know, on the vast majority of projects, they're not replacing any cement. But yeah,
it's hard to keep up with and then something will change. So this time last year, when
we were doing our optioneering process for the LCI, you look at different, you take the
design as it is, you model it, and then you identify top contributors and high impact
materials and then you try to liaise with the design teams and go, okay, how can we
reduce this? What are our options here? It's the optioneering process. So this time last
year, we would have been prescribing high amounts of GDBS, which is ground granulated
blast springs. Okay, thanks. So high content of that because that reduces your cement.
And that was getting us amazing results. Like body carbon was shooting down. Everyone loved
it. It was a silver bullet. Now, you know, more evidence has come out saying, okay, this
is actually constrained material. So you using high volumes of this isn't actually impacting
the world's carbon because the amount of steel being produced GDBS is not a byproduct of
steel. The amount of steel being produced is still the same and overall, yeah, the climate
is in trouble. So all of a sudden, best practice is to use no more than 25%. It's just, it's
so hard to keep up with all the industry guidance coming out. It really is. It is, it is, it's
very interesting to talk to someone else about this because you often find like, you know,
you can talk about people like in your own company, like, you know, they're like, okay,
yeah, I understand. But then someone inside, you know, it's like, oh, yeah, even between
consultancies. So other LCA assessors may not have come across guidance and may still
be saying, pop your GDBS to 50. We can get you a great, you know, scores rating if you
just increase it. I only found out recently about recycled content steel. High recycled
content steel, if you put it into one click, the software we use has a low in body carbon
value. Yeah. But because straight, because steel is a constrained resource, it's not
actually reducing the amount of carbon produced in the steel industry. Right. Okay. Even if
you're increasing the recycle content of your steel, more primary steel is being produced
elsewhere to make up for that. It's just, it's just a never ending wormhole that you
can get. Oh, my goodness. Like, because even like one of the, we're getting so off topic
here, like apologies, but like, even like one of the, because I know for structural,
like we calculate U values as part of, not even for structural, but like, like we calculate
U values, the likes of concrete and the worst they gave like a thermal conductivity of 2.5
and it always says 2% steel. And I remember like our old LCA assessor, Angela, Angela,
but she always said, no, it's going to be that one because that like, it's going to
have some sort of steel in it, like reinforcement. So yeah, it's good. Like, you know, like,
like when it all comes together, you're like, oh my gosh, it's like, we need to, we need
to stop this. It's so important to consider everything together as well. Like consider
it holistically. I don't think it really suits. That's another reason that I've not just
be doing my LCA is I don't think things can really be considered in a silo when tackling
the climate crisis. You know, you need people working in energy to work with people looking
at body carbon or people looking at operational, you know, but you can't just like, I could
easily say put in a different HVAC system. It has a lower in body carbon, but the operational
carbon could shoot up. But if I don't consider them holistically, then yeah, you know, overall
negative for the planet.
Orla, thank you very much for explaining by how your job fluctuates from day to day.
That was me reading it. It's like, okay, hold on. Where are we?
So then like, you know, being focused on structural and sustainability, is there any sort of,
we kind of did cover this, but is there any sort of training prep you would recommend
to enter this role?
If you're interested, just get talking to people. I think it's really hard to determine
if you say you want to go into sustainability, what does that mean? You know, I've met people
on night out when they say that they're a sustainability consultant and I'm like, oh
my goodness, great, we did the same job. And then you end up talking to them and you're
like, we're completely different jobs. I have no clue what you're talking about. You know,
a lot of people look very high level at the carbon companies, so one, two, three emissions.
And then I'm looking at a very project building level, how exactly can you swap out your
concrete, or your concrete mix, or even like, if you're doing a full rec scope floors,
like have you considered a different type of flooring material?
Yeah.
And you know, it varies so much. So if anyone's considering it, just find out, listen to this
podcast. Listen to all the people who are coming on here and talking about how you're
involved in the sector. And then I love institutions.
Yeah, I do. And you know, student memberships are usually free. And then you get so much
material, you get their newsletters, you get their technical documents, and you get to
go to events.
And it's the connections like you form along the way. Like, so even if I think about like
the likes of like four years ago, the amount of people like, you know, that I didn't know
and I know now I am like, well, okay, that's, that's good. And that's tripled. Okay.
They're not just colleagues. They're friends.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, yeah, like, I like that. I like that. They're friends.
I just don't like cheating.
But yeah, like, even I remember like you're saying about like, you know, talking to people
and realizing, yeah, okay, we're in the same. I was like, oh, like we do completely different
stuff. Yeah. I remember I was in a committee meeting for the Energy Institute. And I was
talking about, you know, electricity and how the carbon factor of it has gone way down
over the past like 10 years because of all the renewables connecting to it. And there's
like, you know, the head of committee and the vice chair, they're talking. They're like,
oh, yeah, like, you know, what's that now? And they're like talking about like in total
like megawatts, like, you know, the megawatts, like the amount it produces. I'm like, oh,
yeah, it's like not 0.163 kilograms per kilowatt hour. And they're just kind of looking at
me like, what? Like, yeah, yeah, it's like, it's like, what's like, what are you? What
are you talking about? I'm like, oh, okay, they're different, different terminologies,
but that's fine.
I do if anyone wanted to, you know, find out more about what life cycle is as it does,
if you're looking into that aspect. And the first thing I read on it was how to calculate
embodied carbon, which is produced by the ICT. And it is written by Will Arnold, who's
used to be our and Orlando Gibbons, who is our and who's in my sustainability team in
London, and they just set it out. So it's so straightforward. It's got pretty graphs,
pretty pictures and explains exactly what we do. And it really breaks it down.
That is absolutely class. So you're working with the people who literally invented the
guidance on.
Yes. Yeah. And because I use this in my bachelor's thesis, and then I went to the ICT council
and I met Will Arnold, he currently works for the ICT. And I was like, I don't want
to say fan girl, I'm sorry. But you know, I went up to him and I was like, I cited you
in my dissertation. Oh, thank you for your help. Thank you for producing these documents.
Yes.
That's not my coolest moment. I've done the same to so many people. There was someone
that we had a dinner last year and there was someone who they weren't a speaker, but they
were sitting at one of the high tables. And I was just like, I love all the work you're
doing with energy and sustainability. And I was like, oh yeah. And I was like, you did
this, I did this as well. And they're just looking at me and say, OK. And then I think
I just had a couple of glasses and then it's like at that point, it's 100% dangerous. It's
so dangerous. I need to leave now. I'm sorry. You just said the name Will Arnold. I'm checking
if I'm connected on LinkedIn because that name sounds I'm not. OK.
He is very active on LinkedIn. I love he's very direct. So if he doesn't agree with the
article, he explains why under the article. And it's really interesting to see, you know,
some of the articles are obviously screen washing and it's great to see how that can
be approached and how two sides of the argument like it isn't black and white, how you can
consider it. It's very interesting. Very good. I'll give him a shaky follow. I do love following
people. I don't even want to look at my LinkedIn and see how many like how much how many people
I follow, because it's probably like just exorbitant and it's like no one needs to see
that. You know, it's like when you look at your Instagram followers and you're like,
what? What do I follow? Like, why am I? Yes, exactly. Why am I interested in their lifestyle
and completely tied in? I need to know what happens. Oh, brilliant. Thank you for explaining
that with guides as well. And we link that or link information to that. And again, no,
yeah, I'll do it in the episode. I'll do it on LinkedIn. Like no, LinkedIn is like the
episode of promotion. Yeah, just it's just a wee monologue like, you know, just by like
read through this. OK, but yes. So let's go back to being STEM coordinator. OK, so what
are some of the biggest challenges you face in terms of like you have found in your experience
like reaching the younger generation? Yeah. I mean, as I already talked about the preconceived
notion of what an engineer is, can say if you're if you're at a career's fair, if the
students already have in their head what an engineer looks like and know that they not
looks like, you know, what they do on a day to day, they can walk right by you and they're
not interested. So it's really getting that engagement, which I find is generally better.
I love a good career's fair. I do because I think it's really useful for the students.
I think it lets us interact with especially the ones that already know that they have
an interest. You know, they can come up to us and we know that we're it's a it's a good
use of time. But generally, hands on activities are really successful. But of course, they
take more time to get organization. You know, if you're going into your group, like I went
into Wellington this year and did a short lecture on what I do day to day and what I did as
structural engineer. So I get to cover two fields. I brought a railway engineer with
me and they built bridges. But while they were doing the bridge building, like you might
think it's silly that they're just using newspaper and sellotape and they were talking
about it and they were getting into it. And because I was going around table to table,
they were asking questions. They were actively engaged. They weren't just wandering around
a career's fair. So it's really good. You get talking to people who you wouldn't usually
then. So yeah, I mean, it can be tough to get in touch with schools as well. You know,
STEM Hub and I are great and CITV are great for giving links. But if you want to do something
in schools that aren't coming through them, it can be really tricky. You know, sending
out emails. Like I remember, I really wanted to get in touch with a couple of girls' schools
last year because I don't think we've been out to many at the company. And I emailed
all of them. I tried to get emails at careers teachers and mostly just got the reception
and none of them came back to me, which was quite heartbreaking. And you know, you can't
just go in. You can't just show up at the door being like, I'm an engineer. Can I talk
to you? There's protocol in place. For good reason. But yes. Yeah. I think that's nothing
we're still trying to sort out. Usually you get it through someone knows someone, you
know, someone has an update who's a teacher in a school, which is great. But it can sometimes
mean that you're going to the same schools all the time. You know, we have great connections
with Matthew, Sullivan, Campbell. But you need to look outside of that. You know, there
are plenty of schools in Belfast that never have any companies come to them. And that's
what I really want to focus on in the next few years. Yeah. Yeah. Very good. Very good.
Well, I'll be interested to see like, you know, like, you know, the LinkedIn post and
like finally made it like she's. Oh, brilliant. Yeah, it is always hard to talk to the, um,
like the generation like I'm going to sound really old. Okay. But my friend was telling
me about her niece and nephew and the way they do with iPads like night in the class.
I'm like, pretty sure I didn't have anything like that when I was like in like secondary
school or primary school. And I'm like, well, it's like a different it's growing up in a
different environment. It definitely is. And, you know, I've been in schools where they've
been on their phones. And I remember we had phones in secondary school, but you would
have been absolutely torn to shreds. Oh, yeah. Being seen with it, you know, outside the
classroom. So it is it's definitely a different field to navigate. And some people have had
great luck getting across to students on like, I follow this great structural engineer on
TikTok. Okay. I think it's Rogan McDonald. Okay. Yeah, she's really good. And it's so
nice. She does like day in the life. Oh, and then my friend who is in work, actually, I
think he makes TikToks as well. He definitely makes Instagram reels. He is currently on
site at the moment. And he's doing like day in the life of a site engineer. And you know,
oh, I guess I can see that and kids see that I read that they get to see. I love that because
then they get to see like the real like, you know, all this felt like an actual building
site looks like. Exactly. Like, I always remember like my first time on the site. Like just
like you go in, you sign in and they're like, I go to the main office. And then there's
all the scaffolding and like, everything you've got your helmet on. Yeah. Where's the main
office? And now you're just like, oh, if all the signs like, of course. Okay, well, thanks
for answering that. So we've come to kind of the quiz section. I have just taken a bit
and I didn't know how to prep. Yeah, yeah. I said I can't prep but I didn't take physics.
Well, actually, so like what I've done because usually I try to throw in a joke as well.
So yeah, so I try to throw in a joke. So if you want, I can like, I can just ask the question
like I could like I can make the question. Okay, the question. Yeah. So let me see. I
need to in my head, I need to phrase this properly because the many times I've messed
up the punch line like that just by saying it wrong. You got this. Okay. Why don't you
tell structural engineers any secrets? I don't know. Why don't you tell structural engineers
any secrets? In case they crack. Was that bad? See, you're like, that's fair. That's
brilliant. You're like, you're laughing and I'm taking that as a win. Like, like, I love
a good stature. My first company wide email, I was promoting a social and can't even remember
context. But at the bottom I put a dog wearing a hard hat saying I specialize in roofing.
I thought I was hilarious. And I looked around the office when it got sent out. Who's looking
at this? Is anyone in stitches at their desk? Because I know what I am. No, not a large
breast. You know what, I always like, you know, when you tell a joke and no one laughs
and then like I used to be known for that when I was like sitting at my old desk upstairs.
And now I absolutely love it when no one laughs because I'm just like, I've won. Like they
absolutely hate it. Like, and like that's what I've succeeded. Someone laughs and like
I need to do worse. Like I need to like, you know, it needs to be. But yes. Okay. So I'm,
so I'm just going to name what is it? So like, so I've just pressed something and it is,
it is going to make my keyboard go funny. Okay. I'm going to name at different types
of engineering. And I want you to like have a guess that like if structural engineering
is older or newer than it. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So. Structural engineering, like where did
you get your date from? This, well like that's the thing. I'm like working on it. Because
you know, the Romans were fairly proficient in using their concrete domes. This is, this
is all the question. Like this, this is the whole. Okay. Okay. That's the point. I'm sorry.
I'm going to get a quiz. I need to go up 100% or else my ego will be wrecked. So fire engineering.
What are you talking about? You know, the state of things have always, you know, three
little things. You know, people have always signed to three little things. Although it
would have been more than that if you had. And so like the wing of the wing and the puffing.
Fire engineering is newer than structural engineering. Correct. Mechanical engineering.
And newer, way newer. Yeah. Electrical engineering. And way nearer. Yeah. A little bit nearer
than mechanical. So there is, like, you probably get the point. So structural engineering is
one of the oldest forms of engineering. And I'm saying this to you. I'm also saying this
to them, but like, you know, that's like, of course you know this. You're right. I can't
say you're wrong. But it's dating back to the first instance of like, they consider
it dating back to the first instance of the likes of tree branches being like, you know,
lashed together. Form like shelter. It's like a form of structural engineering. And like,
you know, when it kind of seemed that like comparison, I was just like, all I could think
of was Winnie the Pooh and like Eeyore's like house and all. My boyfriend hates it
when I say that structural engineers have to do their jobs right. Because if we don't,
then people, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And if he makes a mistake, then people might be slightly
cold. I know that that's not true. And I know it's not there. And I sit in the mechanical
team car. But you know, priorities. That's it. That is such a trump card as well. Like,
you know, yeah, you're like, I'm deciding if this building stands or not. OK, what
are you doing? OK. Also, you know, a structural engineering course will totally let you know
that like you'll be told from day one about instances like there was the hotel bridge.
I can't remember. I think it was in America where the bolt placement was out by two to
four mil. And it was like twice this year. And then the bolt collapsed. Like a hundred
people. That wasn't good. And you get all this like weekly and just they're like, no
pressure. But if you make a mistake, this is what happens. Wow. Like that is it's a
lot of you know, you ever think about it like because you get that questions. That's one
of the things in my email, like like my bunch of my emails. And you're like, I'm under pressure
to answer this. Unlike, you know, like, you know, like need to answer this properly. Otherwise,
like you know, stuff's going to happen. There's going to be repercussions. Yeah. This is a
little bit of an understandable girl. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, I hope you enjoy playing.
Just sort of a title of it now. Okay. It's called If You Build It, It's Tons of Fun.
You know, like if you build it, they will come like from feel the dreams. Yeah. So that
might go over some people's heads, but that's fine. That's fine. Well, like, you know,
we're like, it makes sense. Yeah. Well, once they like, you know, one of the recommendations
or like one of the links I'll put with this episode is like a link to like buying feel
the dreams. So like, wonderful. Right. Yeah. Okay. So next question. So what is your, you've
talked a lot about the projects you work on and all the different areas you're involved
in. What's your favorite part of working on a project? Like it could be work focused or
more about your institute sides, like the iStraxE or the like STEM activities. But what
do you enjoy doing most? Working on a project. Like I love, I love working with people. So
generally the answer is just working with people and meeting new people. I'm a complete
yapper. So talking to new people. But I came across on projects like I love when something
isn't going right. If something isn't making sense, you have to like properly go right.
What is going on here? And you need to break it apart. Just the problem solving aspect,
which is what I loved about structures because it happened there. And it's what I love about
life cycle assessments, because now and again, you get to the results, you've done weeks
and weeks of collecting data from the design teams. You've been, you know, putting it into
the right format, you upload it all to the software. And then sometimes you look at the
results and you're like, hmm. Yeah. You're like, wow. No, that's not, that's not quite
right. You have to go through and you have to be like, right. What are my highest contributors?
Does that make sense? Can I match it up with all the building elements? Does that make
sense? How does this compare to the benchmarks? What's looking higher than it should be? I
love that detective work. That's a detective work. That's like, you know, I'm kind of a,
can I kind of say in the same way, I like an easy life. Okay. I do. I don't like that
happening all the time. And again, just keep me on my toes. Yeah. Cause like you get to
investigate and you feel like a proper like, why is this happening? Like, yeah, detective.
I love detectives. Close as we're getting to spy work. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Well,
okay. Or that, that kind of brings us to the end of our questions. And kind of just say
you've been absolutely fantastic to have on today's episode. See just before we go, do
you have any advice for future prospective engineers who maybe you're looking to get
into sustainability, structural or energy or any like, or even get involved in STEM
activities? Yeah. Well, what I said before, if I get into know people and making connections,
it really is important. The networking side of things, like people roll their eyes. And
when I say networking, a couple of guys that I've talked to in the office are like, oh,
that's my idea of, you know, I hate networking, but it is so important. And you, you find
out that people are just people, you know, it's not a big scary corporation. They're
all just people. And a lot of people are, they don't know everything, even if they
seem like they do. Yeah. Everyone is, you know, coming to trailing water. Also, if we're
talking about students who don't know what they want to get into, chill. Yeah. Just,
just chill. Because I was so intent on finding the perfect career, you know, the perfect
company. Yeah. But you know, people expect to get so much fulfillment from their career.
Yeah, that's great. Like I find my career very fulfilling. I, you know, I really like
my job. I really like what I do. But you know, if you're just coming into the industry,
a job can just be a job. You can be a taster for something. You can go into a company and
you can leave it and you can do something completely different. You know, I know so
many people who, there's people on my team that started out as accountants. They're,
they're, you know, we had mature students in our degree who just want, you know, they
spent 20 years in one career and wanted to make the switch. And at the end of the day,
if you do go into something and it is just work, it's allowed to be just work. Yeah.
You can do that and you can test the waters and you can find other things. You can do
some comments like I did. There's no right answer. You're not committing yourself to
something for 50 years. So just take a plunge, do whatever you're interested in, learn more
about it if you can, and then just try to enjoy it. And in terms of work life balance,
concentrate on life. Because at the end of the day, that's what you'll probably live
back on. That's, it's really good to hear it. Oh my goodness. Yeah. You've come up with
such like great stuff. I'm like, it's cool to like, um, well like, so I'm just going
to kind of sum up like what you've said. If you're not sure, just take a crack at it.
Again, it's playing on the earlier crack on like, you know, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Brilliant.
Brilliant. Okay. Well, brilliant. Well, hopefully be back on like, you know, if you'll, if you're
willing to come back on, because yes, very informative, but thank you. Thank you so much.
Thanks for listening to Carbon Climates. If you follow us on Instagram at carbon underscore
climates and keep up to date with all our latest news, um, so it uploads and, um, anything
else we post just, you know, concrete related puns. That's what we're going to do. Okay.
Thanks for listening. Bye. Thank you. Bye.