Hello, welcome and thanks for listening to Carbon
Climates, an energy podcast dedicated to discussing
all things energy, carbon and sustainability.
We also like to talk about what's getting hot,
asides from our planet. I'm your host, Enya,
and today I'm joined by my Carbon Climate and
co -host. Adam. Hi, Adam. Hi, how are you? Yeah,
thanks. Yeah, well, how are you? Yeah, all's
good. All's good. It's not a day of work either
way, so looking forward to having a wee chat
about more things energy. Exactly, exactly. So,
love to hear it. Love to hear it. So, Adam, you
are a... I'm going to see if I can get your job
title. Okay. You are a Corporate Energy and Natural
Resources Solicitor at A &L Goodbody. That's
right, yeah. Okay, we're going to be delving
into that in more detail later on in the episode.
But first question, how's your week been? And
can you tell us a bit about yourself? Yeah. So
yeah, it's been quite enough with the bank holiday.
Just spent the weekend, as I said, with my dad's
birthday. So I went home for that from Newry
originally, but living in Belfast now. So I went
home to see the family and just, yeah, just blow
beers with him. Kind of a nice, chill one. And
then I had a mate's 30th as well. So that's kind
of a weekend filled with birthdays. You know
what it is. See, this summer, all the birthdays
seem to be popping up. Yeah. And I'm not complaining,
but I'm just like, well. Yeah, I'm kind of dastardly.
It's all 30th, so they're all having a big birthday.
So you can't even be seen. Yeah, you have to
attend. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, that's brilliant.
So your job title, as I've just said, is Corporate
Energy and Natural Resources Solicitor at A &L
Goodbody. So how long have you been there? Been
there since October, October 23. So not that
long. very good and yeah that's actually we met
when i think you were three weeks into the job
energy institute ypn event in ulster university
so yeah i think like once i had rumblings about
the podcast then so i'm like yeah definitely
have you on it but yeah so you've been there
since october so how long have you been in this
sector kind of the legal um energy maybe but
maybe not so much energy because you know More
legal sector, say. Well, legal, kind of on and
off for about 10 years. And so graduated in law.
And then went to actually work for a good buddy
in Dublin for about two or three years. And then
did a bit of traveling. So just to make sure
that law was definitely for me, kind of get my
toes in there. Different industry, banking, you
know. And then realized that law was definitely
the career for me. So jumped back into it maybe
the last four years. Did my training. And then
once I qualified, that was when I kind of made
the move towards energy. Right, okay, yeah. Was
there anything in particular that you've seen
in energy? Like, you know, you're like, I want
to be a part of that. I think it's just how innovative
it is. There's a lot of law I think can be very
repetitive and it's very nature. Whereas energy,
you're not going to get that. Every day is a
different day. It's constantly changing. The
way it's linked with technology, with other industries,
it's obviously ever -changing. So the link with
them too. just knowing that every day is a new
day it's constantly learning that's kind of really
what appealing me to it so I'm kind of the same
I've been in the sector for about say six seven
years but even before I was like before this
job as a sustainability engineer I was more like
on the practical side I was more an office based
work and it was for an energy company but just
kind of seen like I want to be like on that side
that like, you know, you're doing something towards
the energy and everything. Getting more stuck
in. Yes, exactly. Getting more actively engaged
in it that way. See, when you were at school,
like second year school or even uni, did you
ever envisage yourself in this role you're in
now? The whole way through school, I was actually
more like technology focused and a lot of technology
in school, like did competitions and all that
kind of thing. But always through that, you would
have seen, well, energy wasn't as big a talking
point maybe when i was in school and you obviously
had rumblings of recycling that kind of thing
but it was never like the full scale energy focus
as it is now um so you know there's a lot through
the technology competition you want to see a
bit of innovation kind of coming through and
with regards to energy but at that stage it was
more just focus on law and it's kind of one of
those things when you're that young you don't
really know how what law entails yeah you actually
jump into it and see how many very and are like
how diverse a kind of career path it can be so
um yeah kind of when i got into it got qualified
and saw it i was able to link that global technology
with law that's kind of what kind of shaped my
path a wee bit more okay yeah that's that's really
great to hear like one of the things i want to
do with this podcast is show like uh like although
like everyone has a different experience like
when they're at that age deciding what they want
to do yeah for the rest of their life i'm like
saying that like deciding what they want to do
for the rest of their life it's such a like daunting
thing it really is and even i don't think like
like someone like at 16 or 70 who's picking a
levels or deciding what uni like they're going
to that's a lot of pressure to put on them yeah
so even the likes of sean there is so many ways
you can end up in the desired career you want
absolutely like even guys i know who went to
university with who all did law Very few of us
do the same area. You know, there's guys that
have gone into the practice. Some guys have gone
into recruiting. Some guys have gone into more
like policy side stuff. So that is kind of incredible
just to show you how within a couple of years,
how everyone took a different path from it. Yeah,
that's great. Okay, well, thanks for explaining
that, Adam. So you're with NL Goodbody, who I
constantly see on LinkedIn. from the energy promotions
page, like you do a lot of stuff for Renewable
NI. Yeah. So just to give a bit of a brief about
A &L Goodbody. See, I'm going to do this and
you're going to be like, you absolutely butchered
that. Probably more than I did. So A &L Goodbody
for Belfast, you're experts in energy regulation,
finance and development. You advise market leaders
in renewable energy and development and also
focus on ESG and sustainability. You help navigate
businesses in the changing economic, environmental,
social and government's landscape to ensure ongoing
development and success. Does that sum it up?
Sounds perfect, yeah. Like you guys do so much
more like sectors, like, you know, like the likes
of criminal and like litigation and all that,
but I wanted to focus on. on your website you
have particular services that focus on the environment
and sustainability and like that was really cool
to see because not that I go about all the different
law sites but I don't know anyone else who yeah
again it's definitely a growing sector as well
I think and like I'm going to go into a role
where our company does definitely make prioritizes
it and a lot of places would I think have emerge
the kind of energy in with other departments
where we're kind of lucky in the sense that we
do have a specific energy um team and we're all
kind of very much specializing and have a love
for it so um and it's ever growing like i said
i'm relatively new to it and already the team's
grown massively since when i started so it's
um yeah it's looking good that's close uh okay
so before we get on to the questions um i'm gonna
ask you i have a joke for you. Okay. And, you
know, if you want to walk out of here after it,
that's something like the fine. So, what does
a lawyer order to drink? What? Justice. Justice.
I said it wrong. I messed it up. It's supposed
to be just ice. So, yeah, you can keep that.
You can tell your friends, okay? We'll run the
office tomorrow. Okay. Well, see your role when
you're focusing on the energy team. Can you describe
a typical day or describe how untypical it is?
Yeah, so it is one of those things that every
day very much is different. Again, one of the
reasons why I absolutely love it. No two days
are the same. There's days you're going in and
doing a lot more kind of corporate -focused stuff,
more merger and acquisition type stuff. So say,
for instance, two companies are buying another,
but we would focus more, like I said, on the
energy field. Being within mergers and acquisitions
is good because... It involves all different
departments within the company. So you can be
working with people from the property team, people
from employment, people from literally such a
wide range. There can be pensions. So while it
might be an energy industry company that you're
purchasing or dealing with, it does have a wider
range and scope to deal with throughout the firm.
and interesting like that and other days you
can deal with a lot of policy based stuff right
okay yeah so um obviously again with policy kind
of we've had an assembly for quite a while so
policy is quite new in the north so you're constantly
looking at different jurisdictions and taking
a land plan from how they look of approach things
and so it is um it's interesting very interesting
you know almost to the extent kind of hopefully
so much shape policy you know because it's so
new so it's um class so you're saying like you're
kind of in a role where you have you have the
potential to decide the future of northern energy
yeah i think i'll maybe leave that to the bones
more so than me but if i can help them somewhat
yeah that's uh that seems to be like no it is
very good like i didn't think there would be
as much policy involved in what we're doing like
a lot of regulatory type stuff um and i do really
enjoy that it is um It doesn't feel like necessarily
you're doing law all the time. You know, it is
different, but it's very interesting. Very interesting.
Good. I know you do a lot of seminars set in
with Renewable NI. Yeah. A lot focused on part
of the committee, energy and shit. That's how
we met, of course. Like, there's a lot of, a
lot of the team would focus on offshore, like
renewable stuff, like the wind turbines. I know
a lot of that. There was a lot of focus on that
at the minute. Yeah, I think again, just obviously
with the targets that they've set for Northern
Ireland, it's 80 % by 2030, 100 % then and thereafter.
And to achieve that, I think offshore is going
to have to play a massive role. But then there's
going to be issues in terms of planning and legislation
there to allow that to come through. So that
is massively what the focus is. So again, like
you were saying, you're looking at all the jurisdictions
and how they've played it out. you look to the
Republic of Ireland, you look at Scotland, you're
looking at England and how they have approached
it and obviously a massive part of the play is
the incentive schemes that are in place that
the government put in place to kind of encourage
investors to invest in renewable energies which
is going to be massively important to kind of
achieve those targets and yeah so again that's
kind of a lot of the chat talks that we do we
host renewable energy seminars in our office
and a lot of them are about the incentive schemes
our last one there and Stephen and I you kind
of hosted it but it was based on the new incentive
scheme that we'll be coming in so it's like the
first incentive scheme in the last I think the
last one was brought in was 2017 so it's going
to be massively important to kind of try and
achieve that 2030 target which is keeping up
very quick. You mentioned Stephen Hackney so
I have to tag him in this and like you know be
like here Adam mentioned you by DM just so you
know and he's like so I have to listen to it.
Just name drop, get as many letters as you can.
Tag, like, you know, and everything. There's
actually one time I was tagging something, like
I'm with this group at the minute, 30 Under 30,
and we're doing a lot of stuff, like around Belfast,
like take us to different workshops, and I tagged
someone in TransLink. Right, okay. I thought
it was fine in the post. And then I went back
to the post and they were like, be tagged. And
I was like, did he reject that? Or did he like,
you know, report that? Yeah. Yeah. Some people
are very peculiar about having things that they
don't necessarily know about. Whereas like, I'm
all for it. I'm like, tag me in everything. Everything.
So yeah. Well, that's great. Thanks for explaining.
No problem. So set at start, A &L Goodbody, they're
one of the leading energy firms in Northern Ireland.
And like, you know, you say their name in bell
class, you automatically know like you're talking
about. How does it feel to be part of that world?
Like to be, like to go places and like, you know,
say a name that like. someone automatically recognises
it. They're like, yeah. Yeah, it is great. Like
I said, I kind of worked for them in Dublin maybe
like 10 years ago and you kind of knew from there
the reputation that they had. But I was very
lucky that when I went looking for a job again,
particularly in the energy sector, or like in
an energy role within the law firm that, you
know, we're looking at the time for someone with
an energy. So I was very lucky to kind of work
under Mark Stockdale at the moment. He's been
brilliant. Especially... bringing someone in
who had no prior experience in the energy side
of law. So I know it's been brilliant. Very good.
And you know that because, like you said, since
they are such a leading firm, that you're going
to get the best you possibly can. So it's been
a great experience so far. It's great. Very good.
I'm like, what is it? I kind of feel the same,
like BPP energy, like a saint with pride. But
then... I like, you know, it's not that I have
a lisp. I sometimes like have a lisp. So saying
the latter is BPP, like, you know, I can muck
it up. So I'm just like, yeah, building performance.
Especially with an energy, there's not many acronyms.
They don't necessarily roll off the toes at all
times. Oh, great, great. So for your role, was
there any sort of training prep that you recommend
for like? Yeah, I say that and I realise obviously
you have to go to the Institute. That's true,
but that was the route I took. So I did just
the law degree in the Institute, but other people
do the SGEs in England and go that route. Which
it is good in the sense that there are different
avenues. There's not one right way of doing it,
one wrong way of doing it. It allows people to
find a route that ultimately suits them. And
then you get your training contracts. And some
people go training. I think a lot of times, like
having even seen, I didn't train with NL myself,
but when you see the training that they do provide
for the trainees, they kind of sit in different
seats. So you might have a seat within employment,
a seat within property, a seat within corporate.
So it means then after your two years, you've
kind of got a wide range and kind of experience
of how a corporate. frameworks you know which
is brilliant um other people take a small different
routes but like i said there's no right or wrong
and i think ultimately everything does you get
experience from no matter what way you go about
it and yes that's law is a very peculiar kind
of industry in that regard there's no right or
way wrong wrong way of doing it okay very good
and you're saying in your energy team um like
just like all the policies and all you have to
read up on Is there any particular guides that
you find helpful that, like, helped you, like,
you know, with the amount of work you're doing?
I think it's one of those things, there's no
one sort of resource that you go to more than
the other. Like, for instance, there's certain
news websites, like Renews, or is it Renews?
There's a great one, kind of shows you global
energy news. Even so much as reading the Irish
Times, they have a lot in regards to planning.
And because it's so news, it's very much in the
news. just being up to date with daily affairs
is massively important, I think, as well. You
understand the government in a position with
regards to planning and their outlooks and, like
I said, the incentive schemes of the government.
So a lot of it is very intrinsically linked with
politics and the government. So being able to
keep up with scratch labs, I think, is very important
as well. It's very, very interesting. I'm kind
of in the... You mentioned about property there.
One of the things of property and legal, We're
on the side where we create EPCs, like energy
bill certificates for people. And one of the
things that I'm really passionate about, and
it's really to do with politics, so with an EPC,
I'm explaining this to you, but I'm also explaining
it to them. Like with an EPC, depending on what
rating you get, you could get a green mortgage.
And also some banks offer cashback options, so
you can get money for your rating. And that's
really great. But the EPC software we use to
calculate for Northern Ireland, it's so out of
date. It is about 15 years out of date. It is
three years off being able to vote. That pisses
me off because there is potentially properties
that could be getting... b or an a that people
could be entitled to this yeah funding for or
there's properties that like okay you're actually
like you know a d or an e like we need to get
like you know when hopefully when um grants and
all come out for home improvement you could like
yeah you can apply for it um so yeah it's also
making people aware that those things exist as
well i can imagine the job in itself i think
a lot of people just they tend to look at a house
and don't look at those kind of they don't realize
the implications that energy has and those things
you know exactly and then the thing with energy
assessment like it's such a like it's for northern
ireland i feel like you know like for energy
assessment and buildings i feel like we are kind
of let down just because of our executive like
you know there was no there wasn't one for a
while which is why these updates didn't happen
but then when you look over mainland england
scotland like all their policies and like all
the stuff they've got out the percentage reduction
you're like it's amazing it's good though sometimes
having that blueprint though as well because
it allows you to take the bits that are right
from what they have done what the wrongs have
done so then it kind of hopefully might help
you can create a better policy and moving forward
it might be a wee bit slower as you said but
it kind of allows you to cherry pick then what
elements you think will work best for this jurisdiction
you're just right you're just right so hopefully
I don't know once this podcast gets bigger we
can like you know off the executives I'm like
here's what you need to do that's it be the first
first vote of call like you know yeah but if
you're on the end one here yeah absolutely like
you know yeah no that'll be fun okay well thanks
for uh giving us background on your training
um like a bit about your role and yourself so
I'm coming to the quiz section now okay um this
is where I asking questions kind of tailored
towards yourself. So because you're being in
the legal sector and talking about energy, so
what is the first law of energy? Oh, this is
going to be Newton or something along those lines.
So yeah, it kind of focuses in on thermodynamics.
So it's the law of conservation of energy and
states that energy cannot be created nor destroyed,
but just transferred. Well, this brings me back
to Katie's. That's been a while. When I was,
like, because originally I wanted to ask a question,
like, what was the first, like, energy law that
was created? And then it came up that. I'm like,
oh, hold on, that's better to ask. Yeah, and
to be honest, I was going to put my joke in where
it was, like, just ice, like, you know, in here.
But, like, I just wanted to use that as fast
as I could. So thank you for playing the, what
we're going to call is the laws of energy section.
You've been really good, really good contestant
to have on. Thanks. So talking about your job
roles and your projects, is there any particular
favourite part you have when completing a project?
I think it's because every project again is so
different. What I actually just love doing is
dealing with the kind of clients on a daily basis.
working well maybe not face to face a lot of
it can be through zoom or whatever but here they're
all individual needs working with them and trying
to find a solution for it can be very interesting
because and then you learn a lot as well from
a lot of the clients um because they ultimately
they're industry specialists like while we might
do the legal side of it they're the guys who
are probably more industry specialists in terms
of energy yeah so you're learning a lot from
them as well so having that kind of constant
um conversation with them on different aspects
of industry and it's very interesting I do like
that class that's class and so Adam thank you
so much for coming on today and answering all
the questions you'll definitely be back hopefully
well actually we'll see how the views do but
is there any um events that A &L got the body
are part of in the future that we should be aware
of? Just keep an eye out, just like I said, for
the Renewable NI seminars that we host. They
tend to be advertised on LinkedIn through Renewable
NI on the NL website. So keep an eye out for
them. They try to do the same thing quarterly
and they always touch different areas, you know,
what's relevant at the time. So they're always
very well attended. I mean they're always great
again because they're so well done to kind of
chat with other people within the industry as
well. I always see them and I'm always like yeah
I'm gonna go and then it's just like something
conflicting that day I'm like okay the next one.
Is there any other like firms that you guys would
collaborate with that would like to kind of do
energy stuff as well or? In terms of collaboration
Renewable Energy seem to be the major player
that we kind of work with but There's different
events that we would attend, but I don't necessarily
collaborate with them directly. Maybe not as
close as Renewable Night, but that's probably
one that I'd be better off running past my boss
for. Okay, yeah, that's fair. I'm not sure. Yeah,
he'd be the main man there. Nope, that's fair.
Apologies, that was a sneaky one. Thank you so
much for coming on today. You've been... Really
interesting to interview and talk to and share
so much insight into the legal sector and energy
in Belfast. So before we go, do you have any
advice for future prospective legal slash energy
professionals? I think, well, one thing I've
always just kind of tried to do is just consider
yourself a sponge, especially early in your career.
Just take in as much as you possibly can. Like
I said, every day as a school day, learn as much
as you can about the industry that you're working
in. um and any other that you think might have
positive impact on your job so just take in as
much as you possibly can yeah i feel like i'm
like i remember when i started my career i was
like just take it in like i was trying to absorb
so much yeah now i feel like i'm up the edge
i'm like like i like i still want to take in
stuff i'm like forgetting people's names in my
yeah the smaller things that you tend to forget
like yeah yeah and it's even um like i was sitting
in like you know i know We're doing this now.
I sent you the crib sheet and everything. That's
fine. I was sitting at seven o 'clock like last
night. I'm like, I need to send this to Adam.
Oh my God. And he had all the things just to
keep you busy and say flat out. Well, I usually
try and say a pun for my sign off, like, you
know, for the advice. And just can't think of
any that is better than the just nice one. So
leave it there. No problem. Yeah. Nope, nothing's
coming to me. Okay, that's fine. We'll leave
it. Okay, but thanks, Adam. And yeah, we'll definitely
be back on. Thanks for having me. Thanks for
listening to Carbon Climates. If you follow us
on Instagram at carbon underscore climates, you
can keep up to date with all our latest news
and posts and episode releases. Okay, thanks
for listening. Bye.