Hello, welcome, and thanks for listening to Carbon
Climates, an energy podcast dedicated to discussing
all things energy, carbon, and sustainability.
We also like to talk about what's getting hot,
besides from our planet. I'm your host, Enya,
and today I'm joined By my carbon climate and
co -host, Gareth. Hi, Gareth. Hi. How's it going?
Yeah, it's going well. How about you? Very well.
Anyway, so Gareth, we're going to just give him
your full name in case people want to look you
up. There's no middle name. Yeah, there's no
middle name. And so you are a mechanical building
services engineer in Belfast. I forgot about
Belfast. Yeah, Belfast. It is Belfast. Yeah.
Oh, OK. It is Belfast. That is me. That is me
correcting. But yeah, so we're going to be talking
about your job this week and just kind of what
got you to this level. So first question, which
I ask all my guests, how's your week been? And
can you tell us a bit more about yourself? How's
my week been professionally? um or like you know
personally like personally what's going on like
actually uh on the garden flat out um mid to
or early to mid 30s now so i just love being
in the garden that's just our thing now yeah
and in reality it's actually just because we're
having people around for the house soon for it's
on the birthday and and we had a like 20 meters
cubed pond it's filled wow so that yeah I don't
know why we had this pond before and we didn't
put in okay yeah a serious amount of rubble has
went into that and all done now yeah all fine
and actually it was a shout out whitehead facebook
groups that have helped me fill it like I've
had to spend very little money doing it and yeah
but um that's the main thing actually I think
we've been doing that for like weeks yeah very
good yeah okay so you definitely like it's perfect
for the summer like coming into it like uh it
was very useful well yeah it'll be nice to make
it safe for your kids running about like you
know because we're like oh please don't fall
into the pond but yeah something we needed to
do since we moved in four years ago but um yeah
that's the main thing to be honest okay very
good very interesting And your job title, you
know, I've just said it, but you can introduce
it if you want. Mechanical engineer, mechanical
building services engineer. Yeah, answer to all
names. HVAC engineer. HVAC engineer, like whatever
you, yeah. Professional bluffer. Professional
bluffer. That's good. I'll message Mike, you
need to add this title to his name. Okay. yeah
professional buffer bng bng with honors like
of course yeah oh yeah and see when you were
at school did you ever did you ever envisage
yourself in this sector uh i absolutely don't
i never uh nope engineering for squares and i
would never have wanted to do this wow um teenage
me would have said um i always thought i was
going to do something musical I had looked at
doing music in like Cardiff University and all
the careers people in school told me to do this
and physics teacher told me I should just join
the army because I just was terrible at physics
at the time I'm obviously amazing at physics
now yeah that's why I'm able to do this is that
is that backed up like if you've got someone
to I don't know yeah Skype's on or something
um no but like yeah it's I don't know it's but
school was non -stop crack primary school i loved
learning and then secondary school i was just
like why am i here i hate this i hate this so
much i don't like it i don't enjoy it um so i'm
like i don't know if you went to like a grammar
school or anything but they're very set up of
like you're gonna go here and you're gonna do
medicine civil engineering law i know exactly
if you don't if you don't fit within those it's
like don't even be here so yeah i went like so
that's in my hardcore emo phase it's like oh
i'll just do music and stuff and you know yeah
little did i know 10 15 however many years later
i would become a special case society so here
i am office work wow um still angsty yeah still
angsty still listen to it still buying constantly
mcr were you ever at that what's it called the
emo or the showdown not the showdown it was the
emo festival or no because ironically i hate
live music okay i love listening to live music
i like if i'm the one performing great fine yeah
and whatever that is my saturday night unlocks
the pism and i'm just like no but no oh yeah
here oh yeah center um pavilion Oh yeah, I lived
in Limelight. Limelight, yeah. I lived in Limelight,
love that. Oh, it was the Katie's Bar in Limelight,
wasn't it? It was spring and air break at the
time. Okay. Best gig I've ever been to was in
spring and air break. Okay, very good. You got
a lot there. I realised now when I asked that
last question, I skipped a question. So the fourth
question, which might be the third question,
how long have you been in this sector? 2016,
I think, was whenever I started. Yeah, I started
in 2016. I think I had, well, I've said the off
mic. I did a BIM course, like a level four OCR
BIM course. Yeah. And it was just by sheer chance
that I did it. Never had any interest in doing
it. As I always wanted to do music, did performing
arts in school. always thought it was going to
be something media driven and decided I had a
face more for radio so went into IT stuff did
windows courses all that there and just never
yeah like I was like I kind of just didn't know
what I wanted to do that's all yeah and totally
just fell into this then because my family -in
-law who works at RPS he was like oh kind of
like IT stuff then I think 2016 was whenever
FIM level 2 was compulsory for like government
level jobs he was like there's this thing coming
in I mean rabbit and everything's been going
since like 2012 but it's taken off it's compulsory
there will be a niche in the industry for this
and maybe you should try it you know so it's
the way you know you would tell a graduate learn
AutoCAD yeah you could go anywhere you'll get
a fit in the door whatever and and yeah just
i did of course i think i was actually we got
like money back on our mortgage or something
you know when you sign up for deals and oh 500
pound or whatever it is and so we had like yeah
just moved into our first home in 2015 then got
that money for that and i was like there's nothing
we want or need put into this invest for the
future and of course it's like something applying
or whatever I ran from like June to February
to June it was just like a Monday night I think
they still run up but they bumped it down to
level three okay and I did that for however many
long or however many months that was literally
then got offered my first job in the industry
in the September Went for my first interview.
Company AS, they're consultants now, but they're
very much there. You can see them. And they were
kind of just primarily sort of BIM draft work.
And I'd say it was when it was all just getting
going. They hadn't really established themselves.
Like, come to us, contractors, we'll do all of
your 3D, whatever. And it's nothing like what
they're producing now, but it was really good
for the time. and it was a great sort of learning
experience with them and they put me in their
foundation degree then as well so I think I kind
of came on them under like a higher level apprenticeship
and maybe like jumped around here going into
other questions you have but this is this is
the journal so did a higher level apprenticeship
with them and it was you know it's the two -year
course and whatever and that then would track
you to the Archange. at Ulster University that
I moved on to. And yeah, came to Caldwells, worked
at Caldwells for four or five years. Yeah. Moved
on to Tate. Here, here. You worked at Caldwells.
You got to meet amazing people here. Met the
amazing sustainability team. Yeah, of course.
Yeah. Sustainability squad. That's our official
title, actually. Yeah, no, 2016. It's crazy to
think, like, it's nearly 10 years. kind of so
wow I know like I don't like thinking like that
because I'm like oh no but I'm only 24 like you
know so why could that be possible oh yeah well
I mean looking at whenever I first started like
what my life is now it's just personally it's
crazy oh yeah but yeah no here well that's great
thank you for explaining about your life You
have ruined future question sections for me.
Spoilers. But yeah, but it's fine. I will improv,
okay? Don't worry. But yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah.
So just like probably guess today's topic focused
around your role, mechanical building services
engineer. Just to give a bit of a recap, some
mechanical building service engineers ensure
the mechanical systems in the building. work
efficiently, effectively, and are designed officially
and effectively. So building service engineers,
they're pretty much that group that they design
and fit the heating, lighting, and power systems
in the likes of any typical building, office,
residential, student accommodation. I'm in the
sector. I'm literally trying to think of all
the building types. I'm like, what is retail?
See, and this is why they had to rebrand. degree
course from building services and renewables
to architectural engineering they had to catfish
people into doing the course yeah basically and
say it's to do with architecture and they'll
say that it's because it should be alongside
the architecture that's because people don't
know what building services are yeah in my first
interview I got asked do you know what building
services are and I didn't per interview prep
Probably should have known. Got the job. What,
like a concierge service or something like that?
I didn't ever know. Like, you know, how would
you know? Yeah, it's the terminology. It's the
terminology. Like, probably like, if you simplify
it to people and be like, here, how do you control
the time? My parents still don't know. When I
do for years, they thought I do quantity surveying.
or yeah and like i'm like oh yeah well you go
to site as well and they've just snipped out
that i said you go to work and survey or go to
sites and survey the work and they've went oh
we know that yeah like my two brothers are sort
of in trades one is a spark and one sort of started
out as a brickie but those everything else um
for people who aren't familiar with the 3d terms
sorry So Spark. Spark being an electrician. I'm
totally good, I don't know. And then I'm going
to tag him in this. And then a bricky bricklayer.
Yes. He put doors in for me. Very good. You've
got all the connections. Oh yeah. Okay, well,
brilliant. So I've been a bit about your job
title. So before we jump into this even further.
I've got a joke for you. Already you're laughing.
My life. Do we need to have a talk after this?
Like, are you okay? No, I'm good. I'm from Europe.
It is engineers in the joke. Okay. But it is
kind of, um, you said you were good at chemistry
and physics or like, I said I was terrible. Oh,
no, hold on. You said you're good at physics.
No. Okay. Hold on. Let's find that back. Okay.
Okay. So why did the energy engineer? Break in
for the Tower of London. Hello? Do you steal
all the jewels? Do you make these up yourself?
No, that was Google. Okay. Didn't mind that.
Yeah. I could have claimed it. Didn't mind that.
But yeah. Yeah. So you're welcome to keep that.
Tell that to your friends. LinkedIn buyer. Yeah.
Okay. So you are going to go with the title Mechanical
Built -in Services Engineer. What do you love
most about your job? Yeah, I think the, why,
yeah, why I do like it is, whilst I said I wasn't
great at the time of like physics and chemistry,
I have always been interested in science. Yeah.
And really enjoy science. More so biology, natural
sciences, paleontology, all that there. Paleontology.
Love it. Zoology. Zoology. Shout out. What was
it called? Crypto? Zoology. like yeah i love
all that like love uh like just love science
i am interested in it um it was just an error
in the way i was taught at the time um but there
is a good mix in this industry of you know scientific
theory type stuff and you know if you like that
you can do the calculations and design work and
all that there and but there's sort of practical
elements as well and maybe not you necessarily
being hands -on but like you know you you get
to go to the site you get to see how things go
yeah and a lot of people when they are doing
design they struggle conceptually and like spatially
seeing things in their mind and when you like
especially if you said like a graduate or something
to like to a site as it's progressing like you
straight away know okay well you can do this
you can do that but you should be snagging this
and oh, that's how the pump set goes in and this
is the orientation of the valve and whatever
it is. Equally, if you're not interested in that,
you can sit at a desk and you can do 3D modelling
or something like that. It is diverse. Or you
could dip into what you do from a sustainability
point of view as well. It's going to save the
world, I'm just saying. Can you make it work?
Looked like MEP engineers, that's the thing.
You mean we need to collaborate? Archangels.
Well, like this thing I was telling you about,
you were saying about architectural engineering
at Ulster. I was telling you the degree I did,
which no longer exists anymore, clean technology,
amalgamated with building services, and made
it architectural engineering. So in a way, you're
welcome. Nothing to do with it being renamed,
but you know. Like, I hope you enjoy it. Yeah,
great six years. Okay, brilliant. Well, C for
your role. I know you've already talked about
the courses and degrees you've done. You mentioned
there about going to site. What sort of training
or prep would you recommend for entering any
kind of role in this sector? Training for it?
Because there's like lots of different ways you
can come into it. So I went down the higher level
apprenticeship routes. People could go in at
18 and do the Archange course. Four years later,
they might as a graduate and do this. You could
be on the tools. On the tools being working in
a trade. I'm not jarging you again. You could
be like, oh, well, I want to get off the site
and transition into this and whatever. there's
a few different ways you can get into it. And
with each of those ways, there's pros and cons
in terms of, you know, if you've come up with
tools, you've got a lot of site experience, you
know how things go in. Like I said before, it's
handy to see that. And you're maybe just then
having to back that up from a technical point
of view or something. Graduates, you know, they're
going to be very green. They're not going to
know next to anything, really. You know, maybe
they've done a placement, but it's not quite
one -to -one. I think the... doing it part -time
the way the way I sort of stumbled into it is
very good and it benefited uni as well because
I can take experience like so many what do you
call it coursework so many pieces of coursework
I was doing and you can literally be like in
my experience as a mechanical engineer I would
do I would recommend this and yeah They love
it. They're just like, oh, yeah, great. Yeah,
you are your own reference. I self -plagiarise
constantly, but it's handy to be able to draw
on that and it goes both ways then, because even
if you're in uni and you're like, oh, I'm doing
such and such a module, obviously you do HVAC
modules and sustainability modules and it's all
broken up and whatever. But if you're, say it's
something like the electrical module, where...
i'm not an electrical engineer i'm gonna have
very very base level knowledge of it i can come
in here or wherever place of work and you can
ask who you're working with how do i do this
what is this sensible it's what i'm doing right
whatever so i i think it is really good kind
of learn as you learn like that kind of thing
they always say this oh my goodness this has
been in all the episodes like they're probably
not i recommend that like yeah i know that certainly
where i am now and we we would love to get some
more higher level apprentices i suppose it's
not necessarily i don't know if it's um school
leavers at 16 yeah certainly maybe people 18
could even it's unique or before they go to uni
or whatever like i just find it so impressive
like a v so you get an apprentice at that age
16 18 whatever age they decide and you work up
put them through the part -time degree so you
go to uni one day a week you're working the rest
yeah and then see by the time they're 24 they
are um fully qualified they've got the degree
um my course as well now is integrated image
yeah it's they would do it for five years and
then you know they're the masters out of the
way as well at that time they've worked in the
industry for six years they know how to talk
at meetings they know what like what to ask for
and it's that confidence that they build up and
it's like here and you could be like that at
such a young age and then yeah so it's just like
advertising that to people being like this is
what you are someone that at 20 you'd be 23ish
or 24 or whatever if you do the image someone
come out with that that has done it as an apprenticeship
in my mind is going to have a lot more value
yeah than someone who's just went uni the whole
time Because although they try and teach you
sort of transferable skills in terms of doing
presentations and all that, to like lecture theatres
and everything, I'm sort of trying to prepare
you for that and preparing reports, obviously,
and everything else. You just actually can't
beat being in the office and doing it. Like it's
just the best way in my mind to do it. Yeah,
completely agree. Yeah. I've asked this to a
number of people. what's your favorite guide
to read up on in your work what is my favorite
guide to read up on like you know like the sipsy
guides or stuff like that or you've got like
maybe a mechanical guide ventilation i did see
that you had asked that and i thought that was
quite odd like do people have guides um not to
report podcast i think because a lot of time
you you sort of you obviously have a base level
of ones with ones that you refer to all the time
like yes 12 five six three like your drainage
okay you're referring to them quite a lot and
a lot of that does then get in your head and
whatever but there's other ones like you know
it's just like sort of amalgamated all this the
main subject guide be if that's the inflation
yeah um no one can possibly know everything that
is in those you know you can't just study the
item you sort of use the guide as you go job
to job and things will be retained but again
it's more that like if you have that on the job
experience and it's knowing how to navigate the
guides and knowing um sort of knowing what to
look for within the guides and how to maximize
the use of the guides yeah um big one at the
minute though so ccp1 i suppose for like keeping
them oh yes i've seen that about um Yeah, I haven't
read it, but like... If I have to shout out one,
that's the most recent one I've read. Gar, that's
all I was looking for, okay? I'll tag that guy
and be like Gar's super guide. Yeah, brilliant.
Well, thank you for answering the question about
the training prep for your role. Now, before
we move on to the next question, I have a question
for you. We're going to pretty much, we're going
to enter this round. that i kind of tailor towards
all the guests and i've just i've asked you i'm
gonna ask you two questions okay and it's gonna
be fun round okay and actually i said in your
sheet of prep no prep at all needed um there
probably was some prep because i'm like i don't
think i would have known this but we'll see i'm
gonna try and think of a snazzy name right off
the cuff um But yeah, I'm going to look at your
previous history. I can, me can, you can. What?
You know, it's like the first six letters of
mechanical, me can. So it's like I can, me can,
you can. Oh, if I can, no, if me can, you can.
okay if you okay okay so we can fix it and post
it's fine get instantly cancelled so if you can
no hold on what was i getting if me can you can
because it is kind of mechanical look in my head
this is a genius like i'm like wow you're breaking
all the barriers okay okay so question is who
invented mechanical engineering who invented
mechanical engineering there is a name there's
a name listed on google uh see this is probably
unfair because you're probably talking like straight
mechanical engineering as in like manufacturing
engineering it's like something to do with how
about like the industrial revolution or something
well you'd be right you'd be correct in that
yes yeah which is not what i do wow okay so we're
pleading the fifth i just have walked in my head
that i couldn't be right really do you have a
second year no do you have a first name i don't
know james or something that's james it's james
what he is noted as the father of mechanical
engineering um and he is See this thing, you
know. I do. I know a little about a lot. Yeah.
Okay. Okay. But so. It's unreal. Well done. So
James Watt, there's a misconception around him.
People think he's famous for inventing the steam
engine, which is the first kind of mechanical
engineering. But he actually wasn't because the
steam engine was around his time. Like, you know,
but he invented lots of different types of steam
engine. which was then used later in the Industrial
Revolution. And so he just kind of became famous
for it. Carnot cycle. Yeah, he jumped on a trend
and followed it. Okay, well done. First question,
you win a point. Yeah, okay, so I've got a second
question, which is more local. Okay. So you said
you have experience in all these MEP consultancies.
MEPs, send them for mechanical, electrical and
plumbing consultancies. Yes. How many MEP consultancies
are there in Northern Ireland? Oh, way too many.
Just consultancies, not like contractors as well.
I forgot what I typed into Google. Like, you
know, came up on Google Maps. Yeah, undoubtedly
gave you contractors as well. Just Northern Ireland?
Yeah, just Northern Ireland. There was some on
the brink. Like, there was some on the border,
so I don't know whether they followed up. I would
say there are 263. You know what? You're actually
pretty close. No, I'm not. There's 76, okay.
Six, right? Yeah. So yeah, according to Google.
Yeah, that's a lot less than I would have thought.
So I'm going to name them all now, okay? yeah
no yeah i can't do that speak me listing things
unless that's a podcast in itself like you know
that could be yeah such a good name this cast
yeah that's the title of this episode okay anyway
we're moving on okay so talking about the buildings
okay building engineer yeah can you give an overview
of the type of projects you've worked on any
highs and lows high rises and low rises. Very
good. Diverse. Very good. I genuinely have, I
think. Weirdly, I do mostly lower rise stuff.
At the minute, our tail end of last year, did
a sort of nine floor co -living building. It's
basically like... I think co -living is this
new kind of way that they're doing things in
London um it is more or less it's not quite like
a build to rent thing um the apartments are kind
of like studio style or they're not even an apartment
so like like a student accommodation studio in
terms of size and things it's all very about
like bringing the community together It's all,
you know, big amenity spaces, like co -working
spaces, co -cooking spaces, like big open kitchen,
master chef kitchen things. I think that is actually
the server they use. Yeah, and it was only like
200 beds and it was like nine floors, so it's
fairly low -rise. Smaller, I think it's five
-story hotels, refurbishments in Earl's Court.
We've done a few of those, just like two terrace
houses together kind of thing. it's the same
challenges there's only so much you can chop
and change like they're not listed buildings
by any means but um because they've been worked
on over and over and over again um they just
put like ceiling on ceiling on ceiling so like
the ceiling makeup is crazy and then you remove
that you start massive void and there's fire
considerations and everything else and and then
most recently i'm on a 737 room like purpose
built student accommodation in Manchester and
so that's our newest one that we're working on
it's 23 or it's two blocks one's like eight stories
and the other's 23 stories and it's all yeah
I mean everything is like air source heat pump
it's renewables all over the show and yeah okay
that seems to be the way it's all going obviously
to fit in with things like London Plan and I
know the London plan. I'm familiar with it. That
was the first I had ever had, that one at the
end of last year, and just making sure then that
we're meeting the requirements of that. You know,
we're not suggesting something like we put VR
app cooling in the rooms to kind of get around
the TM59 requirements. I don't think we could
open the windows because it was noisy as well.
Because stick restrictions, yeah. I had to use
MPHR units and then put the VRF in as well. um
rather than relying on like mechanical abstract
manipulation and comments and yeah open windows
for purge and so on um so you're you're doing
a deep dive into the london plan to be like okay
we'll have exhausted every other type of cooling
or preventing them overheating that we can yes
okay right well now vrf can go in and making
sure that it's a reasonable refrigerant and and
so on yeah because there's some refrigerants
which i won't allow like the planners are just
like absolutely not yeah so you probably know
more than me but i definitely do but anyway i
don't doubt it wow we're gonna end this on a
fight no um okay brilliant well thank you for
giving um like about your history and just like
all the different buildings you've worked on
a very extensive list you obviously know your
knowledge no you know your knowledge you know
you're not i'm gonna cut that you know your knowledge
you know your stuff you know you're a mechanic
you know your mechanics yeah you know your mechanics
that's it we can't like you know just like James
Watt did just like James Watt yeah i clearly
know very well i'm really impressed by that still
Okay. Well, thank you very much for being on
the podcast. You've been an absolute pleasure
to have. Hopefully flopped my way through it,
okay? Yeah. Hopefully you'll be back on again.
Not too many edits. Wow. We're going to keep
this when you're back on, okay? Let just me tell
the jokes, okay? I'm the funny one. So, before
you go, do you have any advice for future prospective
engineers? looking to get into this stuff yes
okay strangely uh so at the start i had said
how i kind of fell into this and i think to be
honest there are a lot of people don't know what
building services is a lot of people do sort
of just stumble into it and fall into it whatever
i came in a bit later when i was probably more
switched on and open to listening and things
and i say as a kid i would never have wanted
to be told what to do the education system I
was currently in didn't work and make the most
of every opportunity you're given with that and
you can come in with very little knowledge and
rapidly build it up and become very useful yeah
and you know you could come in with nothing and
within your first week you could you know do
some basic you know ductwork sizing pipework
sizing and knowing what sort of parameters to
stay within and you could do drainage design
probably within your first fortnight you know
if you just come in and you let you could do
like calculations and things you know let's see
like basic formula that you could if you can
wrap your head around those then you can do like
90 percent of you know calculations so if you
just come in and you're open to listening and
you take every opportunity and you you know if
you I know you're big on going to external training
things and going to seminars and all that there
and doing a full LinkedIn takeover. You can do
very well personally, professionally, financially
even as well. You're generally fairly well compensated
if you make your right moves within your sector.
If you want big, big money, go into contract
and don't do consulting. whoa this is an expose
yeah tmd every consultant so that is just that
that's what it is um that's the thing you can
come into this and you can be office space you
can be site -based you can you can do hybrid
work and it is a good like i do two days a week
from home it benefits me and my family you get
a wee bit of travel not too much obviously depending
on the company but like employer we do work all
around the world so like there's you know and
work with other people and understand how they
do things there as well which is always interesting
to know and that's there's nothing you can take
from that so and it probably is just yeah grabbing
every opportunity that kind of like say yes to
most things like say when you get approached
through your podcast say yes and and just put
yourself out there and be like oh surely someone
will listen yeah i like that surely someone will
listen like there's always bits in these episodes
i'm like yeah that's gonna be the soundbite it's
like you know when people can preview the episode
they're like put it on t -shirt yeah but yeah
well that was a very insightful um wrap -up um
a lot more inspirational than mine i'm not gonna
lie it's it's just gonna be like be the architect
of your own future As we talked about architecture
engineering, I thought it was a good point. Why
not? Yeah, why not? Exactly. Exactly. But yeah.
Well, Gareth, thanks again for coming on and
hopefully you'll definitely be back. Yeah. There
was some hesitancy there and I do not appreciate
it. Okay. I'm just thinking season two or season
three. I don't know. Do you leave it on a cliffhanger?
We'll see. We'll see how far. I'm able to get,
like, you know. When it makes its way to Netflix,
then I'm interested. Yeah, okay, okay. You get
to play yourself. Oh, yeah. Now Michael Fassbender.
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