Hello, welcome, and thanks for listening to Carbon Climates, an energy podcast dedicated
to discussing all things energy, carbon and sustainability. We also like to talk about
what's getting hot, sides from our planet. I'm your host Enya, and today I'm joined
by my carbon climate and co-host Max. Hi, Max.
Hi, how are you doing?
Doing well, what about you?
Doing well, living with Aslan?
I'll have to say, like, see, because I always ask people how they're doing, and anytime
anyone asks me, hey, you doing? I'm like, whoa.
This is my podcast. I have questions for you.
Yes.
So, yeah, so can you tell us a bit about yourself?
Sure, yeah, I'm a mechanical building services engineer for Mount MacDonald. And as well,
I'm also the Sydney Northern Ireland Young Engineers Network Chair. You don't realise
how long I titled that is until you get to say it. And yeah, I've been sort of working
in the industry for about three years full time, sort of started working back in 2018,
kind of from part time sort of thing. But yeah, that's my phone.
Very good. Nice. And see, when you were at school, like a secondary school, did you ever
envisage yourself in the sector?
Oh, no, no, not at all. No, I was my story is from one where I think I went wanting to
do every single career aside from this group where I went right growing up, probably saw
an episode of Suits and went, wow, I won't do law. That's it. That's my passion now.
Then go to like GCSE level, realise some of GCSEs and went, I actually really don't like
history in English and I would have to do this. Everyone was telling me at least that
I would have to do them. So I just went, no, I won't do that. I'll do medicine instead.
That was really passionate about the three sciences of maths for like AS level. They
went in like placement and then everyone took the place that I was at was like, I'm so
tired. There was when the junior doctor strike stuff was going on and it was like, they were
not the happiest. And that did put me off medicine a bit.
Okay. Yeah.
Okay. Completely reimagine myself again when I'm going to do finance or accounting or something
was actually accepted into that on for Glasgow University. Right. And then ended up basically
just with doing the reals and family and somebody needs to say no to Maryland. So I was like,
right. Okay. I'll do that. What does Queensland have available? So I just mechanical engineering
and I was like, I'll just do that for a year. I'll like with that and see how it goes. And
then in general, I can go somewhere else later. I can go in finance and then ended up doing
that for a year. Really enjoyed it. Did my summer placement sort of thing with a, well,
I was told at the time it was a mechanical engineering company because my mom and dad
both architects. So whenever I said to them, oh, what's like a mechanical engineering company?
They want complete building services. They didn't go like Mercedes, BMW, like any of
the classics. They're manufacturing. So yeah, that was me then. I worked there at mom McDonald
for summer. I enjoyed it and just, yeah, always came back and never skipped. So what's not
the love?
That is absolutely class to hear Max. Okay. Yeah. Very good. But that's really great to
hear about your career progression and like at the start of it, what you're deciding to
do because it was in the exact same position. At 18, I thought I was going to be a zoologist.
Okay. And then I kind of realized, oh, you need to be good at biology, which I wasn't.
I was getting strutsies. Like it was, I was going to ask because otherwise the transition
from zoologist to like full on energy engineer. I was going like, that's interesting. And
my course with Ulster was actually a clean technology, which doesn't exist anymore.
Ulster did the thing, which it's not just Ulster. A lot of universities seem to do this
when they amalgamated it with building services and now it's architectural technology. I
was going to say. I think, yeah. So that's happened as well. I know they have a similar
one, which is like their energy engineering. I think that's what they're going for so much
of as well is like the building services course like share, I think like 60% of the modules
or something. So, you know.
Yeah. See that the energy degree at Ulster, that came out once I graduated. I was like,
oh my goodness, I would love to do that.
And we at BFF, we always have placement students and they mostly come from the energy course.
I'm like, oh, that's like, you know, is it like what I was saying?
That's the thing I dream.
But yeah, brilliant. Thanks for the introduction Max. So as you said, you're in the building
services industry, being a building service engineer, and that is the focus of today's
topic. I'm going to think of a snazzy title. See, like, you know, from listening to these
podcasts, if you haven't listened to them.
I have to work. Love them.
But like, I always like to throw in a pun. And I've been really enjoying them.
Like this is the thing because you were the CIPSE head, like the CIPSE chair for the Yant
Energy Network. And I kind of used like the pun I had where I was like, you know, chartered
engineer, I was like, okay, what can chart maps that was like mapping the way of being
chartered? And I was like thinking that. I was trying to think of another one for building
services. So by the time this episode airs, one will be thought of and it will be the
episode title.
Please let me know all of the business persons that are in the office.
So building services like focus on building engineering. Buildings do more than provide
shelter from heat and cold or from the sun and wind and rain. They also provide a safe
and healthy environment in which people can live, work and achieve greatness. So building
services engineering is vital to everyone and it has a real impact on people's lives.
And what I kind of realized about it or what I was kind of researching about it, like a
couple of years in to this sector that we're in, is like that they can affect health and
well-being. So like such as like the likes of temperature control, ventilation, humidity,
all have to do with building services and like, you know, just how we control them,
like creating a healthy airflow and allowing people to stay awake. And I don't know if
you guys have come across like any TM59 assessments overheating. So those are like, I love doing
those assessments, but I also hate them. But like, you know, just because they're so difficult
to model. And I love the principle behind it because it was to do with like comfort
and temperature. And it's like, okay, 26 degrees, that's the pinnacle temperature that above
that people are considered uncomfortable. And like, I really love that because then
it said, okay, yeah, actually with that people, it can affect people's health, like them not
being.
Yeah, possibly. It's one of those ones where I think everyone might have the worst part
with them. All you do is like size radiators, although that's all you do. It's like, no,
trying to like beat that out of him is like never going to happen. I've kind of like things
so I'm definitely going to use this podcast thing to be like, we're more than just that.
But as I say, yeah, it's literally, it is a massive part. It's kind of one of those
ones, I think, really hoping that I'm remembering this right, because it's going to look really
bad if I don't. But like Sibsy's whole thing is like, we bring life to buildings through
the thing that like I said on you. So I don't, you're just talking, it can look pretty and
it can stand up, but who wants to sit in the husk of a building?
Yeah, in a shell like, yeah.
Exactly. And all of that then it basically makes it so that it is absolutely livable,
you know, and yeah, that's nice. It's nice for me at least. You're buttering me up. So
the thing being like, yes, this is all the great things you do. I'm so used to hearing
like, you know, structural engineers are like, oh, just building services, all that, you
know.
So come on, what we do is.
Honestly.
But yes, so you're building services and we would work with you guys to help design a
livable and hopefully sustainable building. So about 40% of the UK's energy is used within
buildings. So it's really important to, and it won't say anything, but I actually took
back directly from the Sibsy website.
Oh, that's so bad for me. That's such an interesting thing.
So a good design for energy efficiency on the systems that are used within the building.
Again, just recap, ventilation, that hot water, the heating, if there's a need for cooling
and also lighting as well.
I was going to say on the electrical side of stuff where they started looking into the
likes of small power, which I think as well, obviously going fire alarm systems and things
like that as well, you know, and all the electrical engineers and the officer going to kill me
because I'm probably describing this so wrong. But yeah, like the life emergency lighting,
LV, all that kind of things. And obviously not exactly as you say, even into sustainability.
Now we're seeing a lot more of the likes of even PV panels just become standard practice
on the building that they are really pushing that along sort of thing and making sure that
they're implemented and being utilized. You know, it's fantastic now that it's starting
to become a bit more standard. I know PV is kind of one of the easy ones that I think
that everyone will maybe just say, oh, we want to be sustainable. Come on PV when there's
better options out there a lot of the time. But you know, at least that small step is
the plan to start ahead in the right direction. I suppose it's as involved with credit. Even
I'm sure you've seen it as well. I mean, you know, like over the few years for things
from massive changes now and see clients embrace it, you know.
Yeah, there's even we would do a lot of work over in England. One of the big changes there
for in terms of energy assessment methodology was the change of using soft pressing 12 software,
the soft 10 software, which had different carbon factors and it showed electricity.
It was pretty interesting because it was kind of like a big reveal. And that the like this
guidance came like, and it showed like, okay, all these carbon factors 10 years ago, which
were used in these energy assessment calculations for the next 10 years. This is what they are
now. So gas, it was like have a carbon factor of every kilowatt hour you generated admitted
like not point two one three kilograms into the atmosphere. And electricity used to be
not point five one kilograms into the atmosphere. And then this new guidance showed, well, yeah,
electricity is actually have so it's it was down to the same as gas and gas barely moved
at all. Like it went down. But like, like, and then why did electricity use so much?
And it's because of all the renewables connecting to the grid like PV, like wind turbines, and
that really helped it and it like lessened the demand to create electricity through fossil
fuels. So it was really great to see. And like one of the changes for us was with sub
10, it took into account this updated methodology, these updated carbon factors. And one of the
big things it did was create options for renewables. What I mean by that is wastewater heat recovery.
Okay. There's a really great company. I believe it used to be based in Hollywood, I'm not
too sure anymore. But CharSafe. And they focus on wastewater heat recovery. So they recapture
hot water goes down your sink or shower. And so you can use it again, you can use the heat
again. So you're not using as much heat. And they were actually in the new sub 10 methodology.
They were actually classed as renewable or like when it came out. So then using them
got your really big carbon reduction. So yeah, that's some stuff actually being implemented.
Like whenever novel technologies and stuff. One of the few things that we're seeing like
guidance is actually now starting to be not like amazing on it, but it is keeping up to
a pretty good degree sort of thing. Maybe within England, it's better than within Northern
Ireland. Yeah, I think we'd all be all admit that yeah, Northern Ireland can sometimes
be weaving behind them. Oh, yeah, definitely. Yeah, I'm giving a talk in a couple of weeks
about doing this 30 under 30 thing. I was gonna say, congratulations. I'm not going
to say I'm but it's like we have to do an individual project. And so mine is on the
energy assessment methodology in Northern Ireland. So sorry, we're going to sidetrack
talking about like after this, we're back to you. Okay. So England and Scotland and
Wales, they all use sub 10 methodology and they're previously using sub 2012 methodology,
which focused on 2013 building regulations and then 2021 building regulations. And Northern
Ireland, it does have 2021 regulations, but we're still using sub 2009 methodology. So
that is like, as you can probably guess from the year, it's 15 years out of date. And I
do talk about this and some episodes, but I'm going to talk about again, just to show
you, but the reason why we're still then it's to do with, suppose there's all things, the
geopolitical sort of stance we're in. That's an old another podcast episode. Yeah, yeah.
I'll give you a rundown. Okay. So it was supposed to be reviewed in 2012. Okay. And in 2012,
they wanted to focus on radon testing. So the like update to methodology and build the
regs are now we'll focus on that in 2016 when it's supposed to be reviewed again. 2016 came
what happened in 2016? Well, in 2015, Brexit was announced and then 2016 that left Northern
Ireland in a very crazy position. And then, honey, 17, we didn't have an acceptance. Yeah.
Whenever we play the guessing game of what year was our government actually born? Yeah.
And then it was supposed to be reviewed again in 2020. And then 2020, so.
Right. I thought it was every time I'm going to get this, isn't it?
I'm really passionate about this project because one of the things I want to focus on is fuel
economy. It's like our fuel poverty land. Like people should have a right to like be
able to keep their homes and not, it doesn't have to be an astronomical price. And the
likes of buying a new house, loads of people like talk to people and they've been like,
I would buy this new house. It's electric. Flip, sorry, sorry, say bump or flip. It's
this. And they didn't realise the cost of the bills. Energy performance certificates
they actually for domestic settings, they actually give an estimated fuel cost. England,
Scotland, Wales, that's grand. For Northern Ireland, that fuel cost is out of date because
we're using outdated methodology.
I just knew and tell everybody about this. I literally just bought a house like six months
ago. And I was going like, that's right, never mind.
It's just like one of those tools that like people are made aware of. And it can help
them, like, you know, even search for the fuel, because when you're buying or selling
a house or looking at buying or selling houses, all their EPCs have to be valid. So they're
all in line. You can just research like, OK, how much is this going to cost? And it should
be just more standard. Anyway, we have sidetracked there back to building services.
Don't worry, I'll get to that.
But yes, building service engineers, they help us create a low carbon future. And again,
yeah, that was taken directly from the CIPC website.
Yeah, I definitely knew that one.
I didn't know it. But yes. So Max, you are a mechanical building services engineer. Can
I ask what do you love most about your job?
I was going to say there's a big part of it, which is incredibly satisfying to just see
it come from a complete zero, as we're talking about, shell of a building sort of thing to
them, like completely fitted out operational sort of thing. Whenever you start seeing that
and miles apart of it as well is kind of going like, for me, I did this sort of thing. I'm
going like that is so surreal sort of thing. Like working on projects that you know, whenever
you're starting out with these things, you're kind of just like, oh, you know, work in the
industry, you kind of never have a thought of going, oh, I'll work on something that
is in any way significant or something. Like for me personally, like project, which I was
kind of like, well, so like going through is the Belfast International Airport, like
the new extension sort of thing. So like, somehow I'm not, I'm like the lead mechanical
on that. And I'm going like, why did this happen? I was like thinking like, oh yeah,
working school, mousse and domestic kind of stuff. I like getting to see that. And
like, as you can say, affecting so many lives sort of thing of where you're going like,
every one of my family and friends is going to be passing through that airport. I'm going
to be able to be like, oh, so cool that I worked on that, you know, like just so soon
early, I know. But you know what I mean?
Yeah, I do exactly the same. Like we would deal with yourself, we deal a lot with architects
and even walking through buildings like the Grand Central in Belfast. Walking through
that and saying, look how much cladding is on the outside of that. Look at that. And
just thinking of like the work that went in and the number of rooms and like, how many
ACs are in there?
That's the thing I'm terrible for. My girlfriend's like a structural engineer, can't move to
sustainability herself. But like, whenever we go into restaurants now, I'm terrible
because I'll literally just be staring at the ceiling. Yeah. I'm like, oh, look what
they're doing. Yeah. I'm like, so weird the way they've got that region. And she's like,
Max, shut up. We're here for a nice dinner. Stop saying, look at the menu. I want to order
them. We were actually at Mini Golf for work night out. Last week, it was funny because
we're inside the venue and Hannah, who's been on the podcast before, she was like, oh, look
at those decks. Look at the ventilation. And Kristin, our friend, our mechanical engineer
friend, she's like, oh yeah, that's this type. I was able to... I was just like, oh my goodness,
check out the knowledge.
That's the only impressive thing, very specific subsection of people.
Not particularly niche, but yeah. It's a thing. If you head into building services
or energy, you could be in this niche. You could be in on the joke.
You could be part of our really fun talks and jokes that we have and not feel excluded.
So that's why you should definitely go into building services or energy.
Oh, that's really great to hear, Max. Well, see, for your role is, I know a degree definitely
help for the training and prep, but is there anything else that you think helps being a
building services engineer, like any guides to read up on?
I was going to say, there is stuff there with regards to like Cibsie guides and things like
that. Obviously, Cibsie kind of has a thing where if you're a student and that's like
regardless of whatever field sort of thing, you can apply and you'll get completely free
membership. So then all of a sudden, all of their guidance documents, all of their stuff
is online, completely free sort of thing. So if you're interested in any sort of way,
there's a quick one that you can buzz through and kind of find out. I will say as well,
there's like great YouTube videos on there which are like new like on what is a VRF system
and those sort of things, which I hope my live mentors aren't listening. I will still
go back and watch because they were really good at explaining it. You know, like generally
that kind of stuff. And like it is and as well, days and things like that. Because I
know like all the global multi-discipline things will do stuff like I know, we had a
placement student for a week. What they got to do is they just went around kind of like
every discipline and kind of every day, kind of got to see a bit of an insight as what
we do sort of thing. So even if you're just like going, oh, I'm generally kind of interested
in engineering, but I don't know what to do sort of thing. Definitely like go to those
kind of things as well. But in terms of like, as well, you kind of said a degree helped
and stuff like that as well. The real rise now in seeing apprenticeships and stuff is
actually massive with the call for it is kind of we're seeing on the building services side,
massive like people are so interested in taking on apprentices because I think as well, building
services degrees are quite difficult to find in certain places. Like even in my end, like
I came through a manufacturing mechanical engineering rather than building services.
So all of a sudden, so many employers are going, well, yeah, we'll take you on and teach
you sort of thing. And you're not going to be missing that much knowledge really. You
know, you go a year in and I'd say you're probably as up to date as anyone who's come
out with a degree sort of thing, you know, so yeah, even just just to throw that out
there and be like, can a degree isn't even necessary? Even on the chartership stuff,
like it's not something that is actually required now to actually get that. So that's a huge
help as well sort of thing. Yeah, no, I like I'm so glad you said that.
One of the things when I like if I know now I'm in the sector and I'm seeing like Colwell's
upstairs, they offer apprenticeships as well. And like I'm just thinking, I wouldn't allow
to do that. Like, I know, like, like, don't get me wrong, the uni life, like the degree
is great and experienced. But like the angle is you come out and you've got a degree and
you've got no money. Yeah. But an apprenticeship, you'll have a degree and you'll have money.
Oh, happily. Yeah. As you say, like you talking about the like uni life and stuff. During
I got Covid for the last two years of mine, so even the half of mine was Covid as well.
So I'm definitely going like get me an apprenticeship please. But yeah, like so that's kind of
still on the percent of grade. It's just like wish I wish it was something that probably
as well some secondary schools are very much like, oh, no, going to university is good
for their numbers sort of thing. Yeah. As you say, from a personal perspective, I'm
going to with degree and cash and a job setting their hand six years experience or something
like that is massive. Like at the same age that people will be coming out necessarily
because, you know, some engineering degrees take five years to come through. You're going
for me what you could do in five years. So they work in somewhere. I'm at three and I'm
literally they might have done this crazy. So for me, it's like 22 more to go. Where
would I be at? You know, I'm really interested in the kind of psychology of it because I
find like, you know, say you're 25, you just graduated like with you maybe have a placement
year, but then you just finish your MN degree. And then what you maybe find is like, you
like you don't have the same personality as someone who's maybe done the apprenticeship
for who's been working in industry, knows how to talk to people like how to talk to
architects, structural engineers, and all that. Like I remember when I think I came into this
job when I was 20, 23, which was only last year. Why'd you laugh? No, I don't.
Because you know, I'm 29. I'm happy to be 20. But yeah, like 23, like not knowing the
psychical study formal approach here, whereas like from the age of 18, 19, you could be
like, yeah, OK, I'll like, I'll like, I learned the mistakes now. Then by 20, you're lying
at it like, like 100% as well as one of those ones. Because I know that we have like apprentices
in the office and it'll be one of those ones where you'll kind of be like, oh, maybe they're
only 20 sort of thing, you know, and you kind of will go over and you'll be like, right,
how do I cater like the level of this sort of thing? And you kind of assume that you're
like, right, I might need to allocate a bit more time for explaining whatever sort of
thing. Those guys are wicked smart. So the thing that you'll come over and they will
because they'll say I've been in the industry for two years. Doesn't matter what age they
are. They will just have like typed it up like a sponge or the thing. And it is. Yeah,
it's crazy. They went to knowledge and now some of them real high flyers because you're
just like going, you're 20 and you're already talking about this level of stuff. Wow. Fair
play. You're going to be so good in the next few years. Whenever the same age as someone
coming out of uni, you're going to be like nearly chartered already. And it's just like
crazy. Anyway, yeah, no, but that's great. Thanks Max for those guides. I will put a
or tips on like the guides. I will put a link to the likes of the Cipsey website. It has
a list for the technical memoriam like guides and like technical memorandums and all sorts
of stuff. And there is, there is as well like training modules and stuff on there. No, I
think there, there is like a thing if you're like a student member, they're like 50% off
I remember rightly. And there's one of those ones if you're ever kind of like interested
in like formal training and that's even kind of within your role. Yeah. Like if you're
maybe in a company and you're kind of going, oh, I'd like a bit more knowledge. I'm not
getting the chance to come across design heating systems and then how do you take and make
the leap sort of thing. There's like great ones there sort of thing as well where they
will literally take you right through from this is what a very basic valve does to this
is the overall design of a system. Like what you, the concept should be that you're designing
for and they're yeah, absolutely brilliant. I don't want to sound like one or two.
So we come to the section nine where I like to print this until right towards each individual
guest. So said before this section title is called map of the way and become a chartered
engineer. Okay. So I'm going to spit some facts or general summary at you and then get
your opinion on them and also ask some questions. So you best be prepared.
Yeah. So once you've started your career as an engineer, it could be really beneficial
to join an Institute body as we discussed there, the likes of the CIPC. You can train
and become a member or incorporated engineer or chartered. And I am doing the same with
the energy Institute. So I'm currently an associate member who has applied for charter
shift. So yes, so this Institute, the Institute which you join will keep you up to date with
the latest relevant training opportunities, continue professional development events,
or general meetings going on in your area. They're also a great way of networking and
can enhance your future career. And we also like to do a lots of fun things. So I was
going to say, like, you know, because you're from CIPC, you're from energy Institute. It's
kind of like, you know, what is it? The what's the West side thing? Like the jets and the
sharks.
I was wondering whether this is going to be, we're going to be passing time.
You made a mistake. But yeah,
By the doors.
But yes, like the light the list of fun things like we held, we hold black tie events. And
that's where we actually met.
Energy Institute black tie event. And you were with you're with the Ulster crew, weren't
you?
Yes, kind of like through both with like what we're doing with CIPC, you're an engineer
and stuff. We do a lot with Ulster sort of thing. So then kind of one of the lecturers
was kind of like, oh, we've got another slot sort of thing. Come along to the Energy Institute.
And I was like, yeah, why not? And then got a little bit in your hand. Oh, lovely crew.
It was great.
It's like you're asking me.
That's really great. And so in within those institutions, there's often a young professional
network or young engineers network, like CIPC call it, and can involve crazy nights out
such as bar events and quizzes. And you get to meet all engineers your age. And I don't
know what the like, do you guys have an age cap for your young engineers network?
I think it's technically the first like 10 years of your career. It's kind of like when
it's thoughtfully. But yes, one of those ones as well. Like we do so many events as well
with like a fire being committee and stuff. We're kind of like, oh, there's CPT's or anything
you're running. You're like, oh, you want to come along? Yeah. Yeah. So the thing, you
know, is one of those ones. Generally, they know they'll know as well that they'll be
like, like, some people are here to maybe speak to older ones and some people are very
much just here to have a good laugh. So the things that are like, I don't know, you know.
But yes, so you can learn from others in industry and apply for work to become like, as you
said, in an engineer in the service engineer, they might be deal with and you don't have
to come chartered or incorporated. And but then if you wanted to, like, you know, like
for Lauren, it's kind of one of those ones where, you know, there's some that obviously
will be so like business related where it'll be like, oh, I know when they're bidding on
jobs, for example, there's like a minimum of chartered engineers. Yeah. And I know as
well, Sibsey actually did something recently where they kind of like released a scheme,
which is essentially to become like a Sibsey verified organization sort of thing where
there's like, some of it is essentially a stamp of approval from Sibsey. And especially
for the likes of, you know, S&E sort of thing where you maybe don't have 10,000 employees
sitting there that you could go, well, yeah, we have massive number of people. It's more
of like a percentage based of going, right, we have, yeah, at least 50% of our people
are some form of member with Sibsey, not necessarily chartered or anything like that. And then
like 20% are chartered sort of thing. And that then is Sibsey's kind of way of being
like, right, like this is an organization that we can say we're happy and verify sort
of thing. That's very recent. I think that was literally just announced. So you know
what the energy institute does the same thing. It announced it at the dinner. Yeah. So like
it must be like a thing with the general institute. It's like, they all had a meeting. It's like,
we need to do this. But yes. Oh, I just wanted to talk a bit about the difference between
a chartered engineer and an incorporated engineer, because when you're applying for stuff, those
seem to be the big thing. So an incorporated engineer, you get the suffix. This is the
thing guys, if you apply for this, you get a suffix after your name. Oh, yeah. Which
is really the world. How many letters do you have? I'm not sure. You know, that's
where we're like, so incorporated, you get I and and then chartered, you get C and so
in court, I was doing some research into this. So in corporate engineer, it seems to be you
apply for it. And it's on the way for you to become chartered. Yes. So chartered engineer,
that seems to be final, not the final step. So I know there's the fellow and all like
that. Never ends. Yeah. And but yeah, in corporate engineer, they seem has looking at the definition
of both seem to develop solutions, manage applications and undertaking engineer engineering
design. But in corporate engineer seems to be I think it's like when you're coming up
like your first maybe five, like, you know, two years and you're like, yeah, okay, I'm
doing this. I am designing these mechanical systems. I am still in them. I am creating
workflows. But chartered engineers seems to be more like I said, 10 years in like, you
know, I'm doing a bite. Yeah. Anyone asked me a question, I can answer it in five seconds.
Yeah, that's the one that every time we get a new start in their office, they're always
like, what's the difference? What is it chartered means sort of thing. And it's always that
they are exactly as you said, someone who you're like sitting there and going, they're
recognized by like the institution as being this person is they say competent, I say awesome,
you know, they kind of are just going like, yeah, trust them to run a project. And if
they say something's right, we would back them and say, yeah, we would verify that they
probably are right. And we reckon so they can sign off on jobs and kind of things like
that, especially down south and like Ireland stuff like that. I think you literally need
to be chartered with engineers Ireland, for example, if you want to sign off a job down
south, right? Okay. So, you know, and then I should say, corporate it is kind of just
you are doing really good stuff, but maybe you're not quite at the level where you're
going right. We trust you to independently run off and kind of run a job by yourself.
You might still need some oversight. Yeah, you haven't got experience and say a certain
area of it might be technically your amazing sort of thing. Maybe you just haven't got
management experience. So they're kind of a bit like, like, say a wee bit more of that
before we say you can do all this stuff independently. Yeah, no, you're just right. You're just right.
That's great. And guys, if you this is your first time hearing those terms, please feel
free to use the CYBSEE or the Energy Institute website to look at it.
It's starting to get real fun whenever as well, because I think a lot of different institutions
as well, whenever you look at it, you maybe if you're looking for like, incorporated engineer
or chartered engineer on like, I'll use CYBSEE as a thing as well, that we have our version
of it as well. So like, for example, there's if you're incorporated engineer, it means
you're a CYBSEE, which is that then kind of means it goes, there's kind of two different
things where there's like the engineering council decides if someone is chartered or
not. But CYBSEE or Energy Institute has their own version to like basically say, right,
we give this person our stamp of approval. But like, because I know there's a weird thing
where for example, you can be M. CYBSEE, which is a full member of CYBSEE. And if you have
a master's, that means that you are chartered, you get CNG. However, if you have a bachelor's,
that means you can have that M. CYBSEE and the engineering council will turn around and
kind of say like, we just need an additional report from you. Just to kind of, again, for
our end, push over the line. And there's weird quirks, particularly while we're talking about
chargerships. One of those things because there's a lot of confusion around it. And
I know for me, it took a while to get my head around. And there's only, actually, whenever
you go into this, it's like, young engineers chair, all the first thing people ask you
is, right, so how do I actually get chartered? What's the steps? And everyone, let me sit
down and figure this out.
So I actually just, because I did my application there. And that was me like figuring out because
when you're, you can be a, what's it called? I know CYBSEE call a member, like a member.
We call a member and you apply for it in the same process as you would a chargership. But
you don't include as much information as a chargership application would. And then once
you're a member, that's when, oh yeah, you're a member. Like, yeah, go for chartered engineer.
Like, come on, give us this info. Like, it's like, they go through the competency grids.
Oh, yeah. Like, okay, have you, have you done this? Have you done that? And we're like,
hopefully I have. Okay, so I've got some wee questions for you. You don't need to know
the answer. But if you don't, you have to leave right away. Okay, and I was trying to
find a, like, one of the things about the engineering council, like I'll post a, like
I'll attach a link to their website as well. But it has its own like kind of search register
where you can search for a chartered or incorporated engineer. Like, so you can like look at their
number or look at the, oh, does this person, like are they chartered? And they'll come
up if they are not. I'm definitely going to start quoting people's like engineering council
numbers in the office and they're going to be like, what are you talking about?
Yes, so I was trying to find, but like that's the thing. If you like you need a name or
something like that to, oh, just bring up those records. I won't bring up everyone's
records. Okay. Okay. So as of 2019, like only last year, okay, I know. So that like,
five years ago, why many engineers do you think were registered as chartered?
Oh, I'm going to go with, how many?
You're close. 185.
Oh, wow. I think a big swing and a big mess. Oh no. Well, I, yeah, to be fair, I think
that was probably one of those ones where I remember this just shows how flawless my
logic is. But I remember I was like reading or listening to something the other day and
it was like, oh yes, 6 million people in like the UK are like involved in construction,
which by itself, I was like, what? Absolutely not. Had a brain fart there and didn't realize
of course not all of them are going to be one, sitting on the design side where a charter
ship is incredibly important or two, yeah, just not going to be directly working in any
sort of field where there is charter ship at all. So anyway, yeah, big swing, big mess.
Again, Sibsy people, please stop listening.
But yeah, no, that like, that's really great. And it's kind of like what we're talking about
earlier when you're, even when you're looking at a building and you realize the scale that
like, you know, it's like the work, the work, like all those people.
UK actually, I just think it like worldwide. Oh, worldwide. Oh, yeah, that's never mind.
I was wise off. Okay, listen, we'll do survey. But next time you're on my, you know, yeah,
I want these results validated. I said my 500,000, yes, the same. I'm assuming 2024
numbers definitely like don't hold since five years ago.
You like you go into Mount McDonald, you like I need to take a spadicle to find out how
you can go exactly working in construction. Let me just ask every single person. This
is important. Don't worry about it.
Okay, I have another question for you. Okay. So we're talking there about engineering institutes
like SIPC, like Energy Institute and like the concrete society as well. Can you guess
how many institutes there are in the UK?
That's a good one. This is going to be no, I'm definitely going to completely undershoot
this. I've completely gone way over. I'm going to say, I suppose you need to consider ones
as well that aren't construction as well because it's like iMac and like a cami and stuff isn't
there?
See this thing. And yeah, it's only focused on engineering. And then there's some that
are maybe focused. I think software has its own like, so they haven't been included. But
I'm gonna go with 27.
You know what, you were really close. It was 39.
I mean, yeah, within 12 is much better than out by 300. Yeah, take that.
But yes, so 39 in ship bodies.
Wow, I was just going to say there's even more on the software side. Is that all that
are included in that?
There is because there's British Computer Society, but then I know like our boss, Alan,
we do a lot of stuff with like, so of Revit and IES. And there's a separate like institution
that you can get a credit for then. The name of it, I was escaping my mind. And that's
yeah, so like, I know there's probably more under different umbrella names. But yeah,
39. And I'm going to go through each one of them. Not now.
The other section.
But yes, there's actually one of the because I've got the list here. So one of the like
things I find funny was like there's Institute of Physics and then there's Institute of Physics
and Engineering in Medicine. Wow, even more specific. Yeah, yeah. And it's funny because
all these are either the Chartered Institution of Engineers or the Institution of Highway
Healthcare. And then there's the Energy Institute.
Yeah, yeah, that's like we're different. Okay.
You're not like other institutions.
Yeah, yeah, that's great. And we've been in 44 minutes now. And yes, so when you give
a note, we're getting back to your job, Mark. Okay. Why we're all here.
Can you give us an overview of the types of buildings you worked on? I like so you're
saying are there when you're working on Belfast Airport?
Yeah, that is.
And like so that's really great. And that's probably like a large scale project.
Yeah, I was going to say it's one of those ones. I just say there's large scale in terms
of that. I'll say kind of like a moment to only kind of do a lot of commercial stuff
is kind of in there. So like, there'll be another one like to be fair, we do fair bit
in healthcare as well. So yeah, it was based in Belfast. Like the Rotavatoria Hospital
Energy Center, that design that was a lot formats. I think that's starting like 2012.
That's still been like pushing through sort of thing. And personally, probably more in
the end of there's obviously some education stuff in there. So there's like a partnership
special educational needs school, which is in Derry, which is being built to the minute
sort of thing. So that's interesting ones in that fire station kind of stuff cropping
through as well. And also mentioned aviation on the likes of the Belfast International
Airport, but defense stuff in there too, which is always cool. So yeah, a lot of variety
in there. I was gonna say within Belfast, there's weird enough. Another thing, but a
lot of stuff in Antrim just very random like Antrim Area Hospital, we did like the Gynecology
Department refurb long minor work stuff in there like the new emergency department, the
emergency department in Belfast, Rotavatoria Hospital as well. And then yeah, as well.
So kind of mixed the schools and stuff as well as the new Northern Regional Colleges
that are being built. So there's one in Correa and one in Balamina. So it was on those as
well sort of thing. So yeah, it'll be one night I'll think of the really like good one
that I just completely missed. So I'm thinking right halfway through and I'll be like, anyway,
probably good.
Wait a second.
Like what is it? We finished the podcast and like you send a voice note, please include
this. Okay. But yeah, that's really good. That's such like a fast amount of experience.
And like, it's how do you feel when you're like doing it or after you've done it? Because
maybe after I complete a project, I'm like, I feel really accomplished. It's nice knowing
that I did is actually going to help people.
Yeah, I was gonna say there is a major part of that, like, especially when you're working
in the likes of healthcare and things like that. You're starting to just go, this is
like, literally when you're talking about designing medical gas systems and things like
that. And you're going like, oh, God, yeah, someone set up with like, oh, for me, that's
the new emergency departments going in is going to like, would be fantastic. We'll be
able to help people and treat patients and you're going like, yeah, you know, like that
kind of scale of stuff going through is just massive. And some of like education stuff
that you're going like, wow, yeah, this is going to be brilliant that this area now is
going to have a brand new network of just like education learning sort of thing being
built here and it can do all these like credible things. Like NRC Korean has like a brand new
like garage workshop, which is going in sort of thing. That's like, yeah, I love that.
I'm asking you, I'm just having fun, you know, but yeah, that's definitely like that whole
thing. Just, you just feel awesome. A little bit of worry whenever it's going to construction
and you're like fingers crossed on this wax. There's nothing that I missed, but you know,
fortunately, those are huge. Yeah. So, you know, not too many of those are cropping up,
but oh boy, they do scare you. Well, Max, thank you so much for being on the podcast.
You've been an absolute delight and hopefully you'll definitely be back on. Definitely.
Don't be sad if you haven't. Of course. Very informative. Just before we go, do you have
any advice for future prospective engineers that will be looking to get into this sector?
Good question. To be honest, one of the best things that I would suggest is getting involved
in the likes of, you know, the young professionals, kind of like the young engineers networks.
You can just go to one event, have a chat with people sort of thing. It can do absolute
wonders for like just educating you and what's like, obviously we're talking about this now
is like the current, like most up-to-date stuff. It'd be that in like five years time,
there's a whole nother approach and we're talking about, oh, let me, you know, like,
why should people, no one's doing apprenticeship and things like that. People are hiring for
them. I can't get it. Maybe in five years time that we're flat out and we're going
to let me get loads of people are there's like set schemes and it's all really well
defined and all this, you know, and those because I know we had a guy sort of in an
event, literally, we made it about to be a little engineered, like sat down with him
and here's the crack. Here's what I do. He was 17. He was going like, what do I do if
I'm looking at going into engineering? Do I need to go to uni? It's actually a discussion
we're having today where it's like, I need a degree. Can I do an apprenticeship? What's
the best degree for it? Do I need a building services specific? How there's chat. So many
people within the industry are so happy to have them and to educate people, you know,
it's ultimately as well. I think I was saying it in a podcast that started. Everyone has
been saying skills shortage sort of thing within construction. So I think it's been
said since like 1901, there was like an article was pulled out saying you've got a skill shortage
in building services. So everyone is wild keen to get people involved and to have those
chats and set aside time for it sort of thing. So like I was sure you would say it's probably
the same for the other side, you know, definitely, definitely. Like it's even like you're saying
I love having those chats with people been like, OK, what, what kind of what should I
do here? What be the right for it? And I have to not let my bias come across. Bill, being
like doing an apprenticeship, Bill, like, listen, whatever is right for you. These are
the options you're going to get great experiences with both. And in my mind, it's like financially
doing apprenticeships. Come on. Like, that's the thing you like for a degree. Some people
have to take out a student loan and it's like, you're paying that off for the next 20 years.
Buster. Like, you know, it still makes me sad every time. Yeah. It just comes in and
I go like, oh, it could have been this amount. So yeah, OK, well, I like to finish on a just
like I try to make it into a pun. And I was like trying to come up with something while
we're talking there. And the best I could come up with is like always build your network
because we're talking about construction and then network. We're talking about the young
energy networks. So layered and so advanced. I always feel when I explain it, it gets more
funnier. Oh, exactly. You repeat it often again and keep repeating it until like whenever
people don't catch it, just keep saying the joke again. And then it's always so much better.
Exactly. Exactly. But thank you very much, Max. Thank you. Well, thank you very much.
Thanks for listening to Carbon Climates. If you follow us on Instagram at carbon underscore
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episode updates. OK, thanks for listening. Bye. Bye.