Hello, welcome, and thanks for listening to Carbon
Climates, an energy podcast dedicated to discussing
all things energy, carbon, and sustainability.
We also like to talk about what's getting hot,
besides from our planet. I'm your host, Enya,
and today I'm joined by my Carbon Climate and
co -host, Ryan. Hi, Ryan. Hi, Enya. How's it
going? Yeah, it's going well. How about yourself?
Yeah, good, good. Excited to be here. Yeah, excellent.
So, how have you been keeping? Like, what have
you been up to? Um, usual, just the trials and
tribulations of running a small business. Yeah,
mm -hmm. But, yeah, it's just been very, very
busy at late, helping lots of clients get ISO
certified and... managing that with family life
yes uh it's always that balance like I'm kind
of at the edge now where I'm just like I'm gonna
need to like you know rein it back in because
it seems to be like it's like yeah work like
you know it's like work like I'll stay like I'll
go in eight to six and then I'm like no no I'm
gonna have to be leaving earlier but yeah speaking
of your business so um what is your job title
and the name of your business um well my job
title is managing director That's a bit fancy,
so I don't usually refer to myself as that. But
yeah, I'm the MD and the MD of New Paradigm Consulting.
And essentially, we help organizations achieve
and maintain their ISO certifications. We work
with lots of different standards. So we work
with ISO 9001, the quality standard, ISO 14001,
the environmental standard, ISO 45001, the health
and safety standard, ISO 27001, the information
security. And we've also done some medical device,
which is ISO 1345. And more recently, we've moved
into PASS 2060, which is the carbon neutrality
standard. Very good. Love to hear it. Love to
hear it. Yeah, that's brilliant. We're going
to delve more into that later on in the episode.
But how long yourself have you been in the sector?
um well i suppose in this kind of niche area
of iso consulting i've been doing this since
2011 in terms of being self -employed and then
starting a company but prior to that i was working
in compliance from about 2006 so i'm really showing
me a chair 17 years now um but yeah that's how
long i've been doing it well okay well congratulations
good it's doing well like obviously yeah it's
going well it's going well um see when you were
so when you're at school um or so at secondary
school did you ever envisage yourself in a role
like this um I suppose it was always a part of
me that wanted to run a business a little bit
of an entrepreneurial kind of streak in me I
didn't know what that business would be. I didn't
know what I would do, but I just knew that I
wanted to kind of run a business, run an enterprise,
that type of thing. So I suppose no, and I think
it's really hard at that age to know what you
want to do. I don't think any 16, 17, 18 year
olds should know what they want to do for the
next 30, 40 years. I know plenty of 40 year olds
who still don't know what they're going to do
when they grow up. So, you know. But, yes, I
always kind of knew that I wanted to do something.
It just fell into ice. Pretty good. Yeah, like,
because we first met maybe, you know, only last
year. We first met, it was 2016 or 2017, I want
to say. Yeah, around then. Around then, early
2017, I think, the project finished. Did you
come in on the back end of the project? Yes,
yeah, exactly. um and that was kind of my first
exposure to real life iso like accreditation
and what it means to be iso iso uh certified
um so it's a very interesting process um and
then that's the thing as soon as it happened
i started to see it everywhere yeah like the
amount of like fans or transport trucks that
you see like the way locals like we are like
iso 9001 18001 and um Is it 45 ,001? It's 45
,001 now, but when you were doing it, it was
18 ,001. 18 ,000. Yes, it was OHAS. Yes, that's
right. Which is the Occupational Health and Safety
accreditation. But yeah, I just find it very
interesting because the amount of careers or
the amount of world it covers, it just opens
you up to so much. But yeah, I'm going to delve
into it now. So, according to Indeed .com, ISO
certification is a credential that validates
a business's fulfillment of requirements relating
to quality process standards as defined by the
International Standards Organization. And it's
a non -governmental organization that determines
specifications for product services and systems
for quality and efficiency. I also want to mention
the HASS accreditation, which stands for... publicly
available specification yeah i'm like i was looking
at you guys like have i got this right or how's
google feel no it's pretty much there it's pretty
much there but um it's used to speed up standardization
um and there's many different ones out there
there's the i know you were talking about there
the pass um i've got it written going past 2060
2060 yeah and that's the carbon neutrality but
then there's also pass Twenty thirty five. And
that's the. Oh, right. OK. And but there's a
lot in terms of the likes of energy efficiency
and like building. So very interesting. If you
want a bit of writing. Oh, yeah. I need to go
to sleep. And one of the things that you mentioned
that or like you mentioned about your website
covering a ton of different like all these accreditations.
There is an AS nine thousand and one hundred.
Yes, AS9100, yeah. So aerospace quality manager
certification, that is very cool. Yeah, so you
find a lot of the industries will have a very
specific standard that's specific to them. So
the likes of the aerospace, essentially aerospace
AS9100 is like ISO 9001 on steroids. It's just
got extra requirements that are very specific
to the aerospace. The automotive sector has TS16949,
and it's like ISO 9001, but with extra stuff
on. Yeah. So there's a few standards like that
that are kicking around. The automotive's not
very popular here on the island. There's not
too much in the way of that supply chain. But
there is quite a good aerospace supply chain.
Yes, with the big companies. Absolutely, with
Shorts, Bombardier, Thompson Aero Seating. All
those guys, all their supply chain essentially
need AS9100. Very good. Yeah. Well, like one
of the things that like I found very interesting
or the standards which I've seen the most and
I didn't realize were just kind of vital in the
cornerstone. So it's the ISO 9001, the quality.
ISO 14001, the environmental. And ISO 45001,
the... health and safety there we go i got it
but um like they're actually all they could all
be in a business and the like the employee doesn't
know like like they should know but like they
might not know so like the quality it could be
stuff like and dealing with uh problems among
uh your staff so someone has a complaint about
someone That was my first instinct. I don't know
why it was the first negative thing. There's
a lot of others. There could be a lot of other
issues, yeah. The environmental accreditation,
that's the recycling or no, I'm trying to remember
what the environmental accreditation covered.
Well, it covers a lot. So, I mean, it looks,
the first thing it wants you to do is establish
a baseline for your current environmental performance.
So you guys, whenever you were doing the project,
you would have looked at. electricity consumption,
fuel usage, and you can set targets around trying
to improve your efficiencies in those areas or
reducing your impact on the environment. You
can also look at your legal compliance as well.
So you'd be obligated to identify the pieces
of legislation that you need to comply with and
then show the auditor, the big bad auditor, that
you're doing all of those things. And that goes
into everything waste management. etc etc so
waste yes that was the big one because like I
used to work with this like the IMS the official
title was IMS coordinator but um the waste because
there used to be a waste management plan and
you still like have to say okay like why does
your company take care of its waste and I remember
phoning up um whatever company collected our
waste and like I think I had to get certification
from them or make sure they were following a
certain process. You had to get their waste transfer
notes. Yes, waste transfer notes. It's all been
back to me now. It never leaves you. And then,
of course, the ISO 45001, the environmental health
and safety. So that's stuff like, well, just
health and safety. So first aid. book like if
someone has an accident um and there's lots of
different others there's also um it focuses on
fire safety as well doesn't it so it's quite
scary i remember one of the times you have to
form fire like drill yeah yeah like let's call
one of the other guys yeah yeah so everyone can
we please step outside um and another thing was
the um kosh so the control substances hazardous
to health very good yeah and i actually knew
that from my previous job as well so i'm like
i remember this and i got really excited when
i seen that and the the first time i've ever
heard that yeah really and i was just like i
know what this is i'm like i can i'm gonna make
a note of all our hazardous substances and it
was like two bottles of bleach and i'm like okay
brilliant you guys were lucky we have we have
clients that are here maybe 500 chemicals and
that's a lot to get through okay a lot that's
like showing off like you know they don't want
they don't want to have to do all those cost
assessments is a real pain but it's a necessity
but the reason why i mentioned those three and
i've seen them more so i've kind of shifted towards
the life of construction energy assessment um
but i remember like at my previous company one
of the things that was a requirement when applying
for um jobs so like jobs for developers or big
jobs or I'm pretty sure it's a requirement now
when you're about to go on a job or on a new
project is to have the ISO 9001, 14001 and 45001
qualifications because it seemed to be those
three like you know were the kind of key and
cornerstone into okay like yeah you meet the
requirements you can come on this job. Yeah,
it really drives our business, actually. That
requirement for organisations to have those standards
in order to compete for those tenders. It really
does drive how we win new business, essentially.
Most of our client base would have come to us
on the basis that they needed it in order to
win new work. Yeah. So it really drives our business,
which is great. One of the things I found really
interesting is about the past 2060 accreditation,
so the carbon neutrality. Just a quick question
for you, just to test, okay? Oh, no. Can you
tell me when the past 2060 came into play? It
was released, the last one was released in 2014.
Okay. So whenever you see those standards, they
tend to have the name plus the year of release.
2014 but it's taken a long time yeah for anyone
to really catch on to it's only really in the
last year or two and i'm going to delve into
this more but all these standards they're kind
of they're controlled by the bsi the british
standards um the british standards institution
yeah um or not completely controlled but under
their they tend to create them and sell them
right okay okay here it seems like you know the
inside scoop like you know this stuff really
goes on okay here's how you get a standard to
the public okay you need to go through bsi right
okay and it was the same with that 18 ,001 it
was a british standard and then it was adopted
by iso and when they adopted it they changed
it from 18 ,001 to 45 ,001 okay well i was wondering
about the number change as well because i'm like
I was like, well, maybe there was already an
18 ,001. I think there was. There was. There's
a huge amount of standards. Yeah. I can't remember
what the old 18 ,000 would have been. I need
to have a look at that, actually. It's never
something that we've offered. We've never offered
ISO 18 ,001 before. Yeah. It was always the ESO
says 18 ,001. Very good. Okay. So to the hard
-hitting questions. Okay. So your director. Oh,
sorry. You are the title, again, the managing
director of, I could have just kept director,
okay. Anyway, you're director of New Paradigm
and you help companies achieve this ISO accreditation
certification. Can I ask you, what do you love
most about your job? Oh, that's a good question.
It's a hard one to answer because there's not
really one thing that I... really love. I do
get a kick out of the business development side,
the sales side, meeting a new customer for the
first time, understanding their problems, showing
them how we can address those problems and really
setting the relationship off the right way. I
do get a kick out of that. One of the good things
about doing what we do is that there's comfort
in knowing the standard. it's up but it's also
great to apply that knowledge to so many different
businesses and sectors that we work with work
with charities we work with cleaning companies
we work with recruitment companies we work with
heavy industry construction software houses um
and we work with people all around the world
so we just finished a project there with a software
place in who's based in pennsylvania usa and
they also have a base in spain we're talking
with the south african company at the moment
as well we've been to lithuania you know and
we do lots around uk and ireland so yeah you
know and you get to see lots of different organizations
and how they work and so that's that's a really
good thing to do is exposes you to lots of different
um things that can be done you know how business
can can run which is really great It's very cool.
It's one of the benefits that we have, actually.
And one of the things, actually, my team really
enjoys. They get to work with so many different
businesses. I'm sure all your team picks up lots
of knowledge from the companies. Absolutely.
You become like jack of all trades rather than
a master of any particular, which is nice in
some ways. And in kind of modern society is almost
more valuable. Yeah. You know, knowing a little
about a lot of different things can be very useful.
So I like that. I like seeing a client go from
not having ISO to getting ISO and then all the
benefits that that brings, like the new work,
et cetera, and the standardized processes and,
you know, improving their bottom line. I like
to see all of that. It's nice to know that we
had a hand in it. Yeah. You know. What else do
I like? I like... I like that we've been able
to grow a team. So it was just me in the beginning.
And now I like the fact that we can create employment,
you know, kind of grow the economy as such and
create good quality jobs that are, you know,
that are interesting to do, but also have a focus
on the work -life balance. I quite like that,
you know, knowing my team enjoy what they do,
but they also have time for their lives as well.
Yeah. And we can, both of those can work together.
which i think is really important especially
after covid you know everyone evaluated everything
so definitely like because um the because i know
your role would probably involve actually going
to companies you'd be like on the go anyway but
then the likes of i remember when teams just
came into play and it seems so weird to have
not used it before like it's like well this is
the signature and like stuff can be done across
there you're like okay you can share your screen
you're like it's what you do okay exactly exactly
yeah it was a real revolution or revelation for
us actually and teams we were using before but
our clients weren't oh right okay and so there
was some who were pretty tech savvy and we could
work with them remotely some of our us clients
we were doing that anyway but then covid hit
everyone had to yeah just adapt like yeah and
so that allowed us now to And that suits us and
the team that we can do a lot of what we do remotely.
There's still that need to go and have boots
on the ground. Yeah. Make sure that everything
is as the client says and that we are supporting
them the right way instead of just being on the
end of a screen saying do X, Y, and Z. We actually
go and do it for them. Yeah. That's it. They
actually see it in action. Oh, yeah. And I feel
like that's a better way to learn. You see the
actual practicality of it. Absolutely. absolutely
oh yeah no thanks for um explaining about your
job and why you love it so much um so sort of
training or what did you do to like for this
um role or creating this company um not really
much specific training there's very little out
there in the web iso and you can do a lead order
course okay we're about 2k oh my goodness okay
and they're really not good value for money i
don't recommend them right okay that's probably
strange to hear me say that but i don't recommend
them because they don't most people do it to
maybe learn how to put iso into their business
okay and it's not going to teach you how to do
that so it's a real it's a in my opinion it's
not good value for money best thing to do is
and what i done was um i worked with the business
and i was there like you were their iso coordinator
and i just had the advantage that the business
at the time was maybe 7 800 people strong with
many sites around uk and ireland so i got exposed
to the real the challenging part of iso when
it is multiple standards multiple people multiple
sites yeah and so i got a couple of years of
implementing and running a system like that and
that really set me up in good stead for for setting
up the business to help other businesses as well
yeah that's really that's an inspiring story
and i like the sound of it because it just like
shows that like you're exposed to like to your
other work and you're like yeah that's what i'm
gonna do yeah and everything and i think the
problem we were chatting a bit before the podcast
um began uh but like the problem is like the
likes of the practical experience of like knowing
what you want to do when you're 16 like it's
not like you know i think loads of people are
realizing it's like kind of that's actually like
not really possible like you're at that age in
your teenage years even your 20s it's gonna change
like you know constantly and yeah but like like
if you're exposed to like an environment so you
don't just do academia like or you don't just
do okay i'm gonna learn all this but then you
actually get to the practical side you're like
i actually don't want to do that but if you're
exposed to it from early on stage like i'm more
sure about what i want to do yeah you can see
what you like yeah exactly exactly yeah um but
yeah there's nothing there's no real course that
you can do i think they cover a little bit about
iso and compliance in university of ulster okay
um because one of the courses that they do there
and when they do the uh They train the EHOs,
Environmental Health Officers. So there's a course
on that and there's a little bit in it. And certainly
one of my guys has done that course. There's
really nothing, like even taking an IMS coordinator
out of their role and bringing them into what
we do in the consultancy side, there's still
a real uphill learning curve too. go into a business
you've never been into before and interpret their
requirements as a standard for them and build
a system for them yeah that's different than
just running a system that was created for you
so it's it's almost learning from the ground
up every time right okay yeah because it's very
like it's tailored towards like that very cool
yeah like it is and it is a lot of work like
i've seen the manuals like they are they're like
hefty boys like you know yeah but thankfully
over the last few years we've been able to hone
them down a little bit okay okay constantly refining
our processes so i like to think that we put
out the leanest manuals you could get i would
still be in touch with um maybe some people from
my previous company and um one girl she sent
like a selfie and i seen the ms manual in the
background i'm like oh i helped create that that's
true that's class thanks ryan for explaining
more um just about the training about yourself
and kind of the progress to create your own company
like it's very interesting stuff okay so now
we're on to the difficult section of the podcast
okay and it's called the quest around okay and
i like to do this and tailor and it towards um
like the guests okay and this is and they come
up with wacky names of them And I'm going to
ask you a couple of questions and hopefully you
get it right. So this one, like, hopefully you've
seen this movie because then you'll get it. So
it's called International Standards and Where
to Find Them. Okay. You know, like, have you
ever seen Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find
Them? Yeah, yeah. See when it's live? It'll work.
Okay. Okay. I trust you. I trust you. Okay. So
we're discussing there most of the standards.
are made up or like brought up by the bsi the
british standard um institution there we go the
name completely blank but i got it in the end
um can you tell me like has it a guest when they
were finding bsi 150 years ago somewhere there
you'd be you'd be close you would be close um
1901 1901 yeah it's fairly early on yeah and
it's been it became the British Engineering Standards
Association in 1918 and then from that it adopted
to the British Standards Institution and it just
kept on going and yeah it's based in London and
looks like a very official place got a photo
of it here but yeah okay brilliant so second
question There are three official languages of
ISO. Are there? Can you tell me two out of three,
though? I think English and German. Oh, you're
so close. There's English. English and French.
Right off the bat, yes. Yes, that is. Yeah. And
what's the other one? Russian. I would have expected
Russian. I don't know why. I would have thought
something like German. The more you know. Every
day is a learning day. Obviously, I've learned
lots already. Yeah, exactly. Okay, well, there's
only two questions in the international standards
and where to find them. You're off the hook now.
We can go back to that. Because, you know what,
I did have more questions, okay? You just didn't
want to embarrass me. I didn't want to embarrass
myself. You said these right off the bat. But
what does ISO 9001 stand for? It actually doesn't
really stand for anything. A lot of people think
that ISO stands for International Standards Organization,
but it's actually the International Organization
of Standards. Oh, really? Okay. So it's just
a prefix given to it. And every standard, every
kind of standard has its own unique identifier,
i .e. the 9001. So there's a 9001 series of standards.
Yeah. A 9000 series of standards. So there's
9004, which explains a little bit about ISO 9001.
Oh, my goodness. Okay. It goes up to, like, 30s
and stuff. But no one ever reads them, and nor
do you ever really need to read those. The only
one that's certifiable there is the 9001. Right.
2015. Okay. And is that the same for the 14 ,001?
Same. Oh, wow. Absolutely, yeah. Okay. And then
the 45 ,001 as well. All the same, yeah. There's
usually in a group like that, then they only
certify one of them. Okay. And 9 ,001 is like
a million plus certificates around the world,
accredited certificates now. 14 ,001 is maybe
10 % of that. right 45 000 ones even less oh
my goodness so yeah and those are the three most
popular so 9001 wins by a long long way there's
a that's you know that is definite pop quiz knowledge
i feel like if there's a particular pop quiz
like yeah like the bsi created a pop quiz like
that is such a that'll be one of the questions
definitely And then the third question. See,
I had like about five questions prepared, but
I'm like, the first three right off the bat,
I'm like, we've already discussed this. Oh my
goodness. But I was going to say, and I actually
got this question wrong. Okay. I was going to
say, what happened in 2018 to a particular ISO
standard? But as you were saying, it was 2020
to the ISO, like, oh no, the OHAS 18001. Yeah,
it was a 45. Changed to 45001. So, yeah, my memory
did not serve me correctly in that. You were
close. I kind of played back. I was like, it
was there. I don't think I remember that happening.
So it must be that day, but no. But yeah, every
couple gets like three years to transition to
the new version. So if it came out in 2018, you
had until roughly around 2020, 2021, depending
on when your cycle ended, to upgrade to the new
version. So you guys might not have upgraded
until like 2020. Okay. Which is why you might
remember 2020. Very good. Okay. Okay. I'll accept
that. And one of the other questions I wanted
to ask you that like I didn't send on your crib
sheet before this podcast episode, so apologies.
But just like a talk through the ISO, like the
ISO accreditation process from what I remember.
The IMS manual is created and tailored to that
particular company. You create all the different
standards they need, all the notes they need,
all the files they need or need to refer to.
And then the company pretty much puts it in action.
And then they operate like that for a period
of six months or until they perform an audit.
By the third party accreditation. And they come
in and do an audit. Is an audit a year? Yeah.
So, I mean, you're right. The very first stage,
and I'll kind of walk you through our process,
the very first stage is the gap analysis to understand
what the client already does and how they align
with the standards. Ideally, and if you think
about it like a big jigsaw, ideally you'll supply
as many pieces as possible and we fit in the
bits that are missing. and then what we supply
you with is a completed system that you now have
to implement and once you start using it then
you're kind of preparing yourself for the upcoming
audit now in year one that very first year the
cert body that's a third party accredited cb
and they will do two audits at stage one audit
is essentially a document review do you have
your system in place does it align with the requirements
of the standards that you're seeking certification
to and if they're happy then they'll let you
through to the next stage and usually about six
to eight weeks later they'll do a stage two audit
which is a are you walking the walk you told
me you're going to do this show me that you are
doing it show me that you've done your audits
show me you've got your waste transfer notes
show me that you've done your cost assessments
show me that you've done your risk assessments
show me that you're checking your quality on
your products and once you get that audit over
you you can tell the rest of the world you're
isocertified right okay okay and then you get
into that cycle of maintaining that system doing
all the things you need to do and then generally
speaking every year an auditor will come out
to see you some cert bodies like bsi who was
spoken about might come out every six months
and but generally speaking that's that's the
process right okay that's like yeah i just want
to outline that in my head because i remember
there was so much like i remember Like, you know,
you guys came in, you gave us the manual, and
you're like, okay, do this. And then I remember
auditors at different times, and I'm like, what's
up with you? You just show up, it's like, I knew
you were doing this today. I'm like, okay, that's
fine. But no, Brian, thank you so much for coming
on the podcast, because even an absolute delight
to talk to, and also just talking about your
career path and the type of work you do, so interesting.
I hope it's inspired a lot of other people to
follow what they want to do. and like just to
find out what's out there but before you go do
you have any advice for future professionals
that might want to get into the iso sector or
industry i think i suppose if you were first
and foremost very few people know about iso anyway
so if you do find yourself in that position where
you're kind of going i like the sound of that
which i don't think there's too many people and
but what i would suggest is really really get
a good sound knowledge of the different functions
within a business so understand what the purpose
of the purchasing department is understand the
purchase of the sales department how operations
work which are accounts having a real sound knowledge
of all the components of a business and how they
interact to deliver that service to the customer
that product of the customer is really important
and i think if they do what you did and become
the IMS coordinator, the system coordinator,
or the ISO person in the business. I think that
would be a big help. Learn to do that first.
Anyone who's listening to this who does ISO will
know that if someone came to volunteer themselves
to be that person, they would quite happily hand
it off. It tends to be added to, certainly in
an SME, it's added on to the HR managers. and
list of duties or the ops manager or whatever
it may be and they're usually super busy yeah
and don't have time to give it actually yeah
you know the the give it what it deserves to
make it run right so you can volunteer you can
really build a career around compliance and you'll
get exposed to so much within within a business
that particularly the internal audits would help
you really understand yeah business They're,
they're really fantastic. Any, any kind of junior
staff that we're dealing with in a client, I
would always say like, put yourself forward for
the internal audits. You'll learn so much about
the business. That's yeah. That's my advice.
I don't think there's, there's no course or anything
you can do. So it's real on the job learning.
That's yeah. That's, you know, that's the best
type of learning. That was this type of learning
for me. Like, it's funny because the business
I was in before, um, kind of, we, installed insulation
whereas this one this one i'm more assessing
insulation yeah and the thermal performance and
see the difference like it was so like i'm just
like it was more like your installment insulation
like okay check off this and then i'm like oh
my goodness the thermal performance like there's
so much you have to take into account and it's
great you can see both sides yeah use that experience
of what the installers are up against yes what
you guys are looking for you can maybe see the
challenges that the installers have i feel like
because like i've been in this that kind of role
but six years so i'm definitely forgetting the
other side like yeah yeah yeah it happens it
happens um but yeah no thank you very much for
coming on the podcast and hopefully if you're
not too busy i know new power time um absolutely
flat out but if you're not too busy we'd love
to have you back on or anyone else from your
organization um no problem thanks for having
me yeah appreciate it of course i usually like
to end on a pun as well um but and i usually
try and make it up like during the pop like during
the episode yeah and it's going to be something
like um like you know oh yeah i know what it's
going to be it's going to be like yeah set your
own standard like um for like what you want from
your work life absolutely that's a good that's
a good model to have yeah Yeah, definitely. Hopefully
it inspires some people. Well, let's see. Hopefully.
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