1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:19,360 Hello, welcome. Thanks for listening to Carbon Climates, an energy podcast, 2 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:23,840 dedicated to discussing all themes, energy, carbon and sustainability. 3 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:28,880 We also point out what's getting hot, besides from our planet. I'm your host, Enya, and today 4 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:38,080 I'm joined with my Carbon Climate and co-host, Peter, who is an NDA, an OCDA and a DEA energy 5 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:45,120 assessor. And we'll be discussing all these terms within this episode. So before we get on to today's 6 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:50,080 topic, Peter, how's your week been? It's been going pretty well. It's only Tuesday, 7 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:55,520 like, so nothing too strange. We're starting so far. We're sure something will happen later 8 00:00:55,520 --> 00:01:00,320 on in the week. Yeah, but apart from that, everything is good with me. Yeah. What about you? 9 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:07,440 Yeah. I think this is my, I think this is my ninth or tenth episode. I don't know if anyone's asked me. 10 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,960 There we go. That's pretty good. Thanks very much. I'll meet you nearly on the double digits. 11 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:21,520 Nearly on the double digits. Yeah, I think I've just uploaded the sixth episode. So 12 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:27,440 I know it's going pretty well. It's going pretty well. I like it. But yeah, I'm going well, 13 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:32,160 you know, yourself, it's very, very busy with work. Just trying to keep your head above water. 14 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:38,080 But no, brilliant. Thanks very much for that, Peter. So can you tell us your job title? 15 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:45,680 Yes. So I am a sustainability engineer at BPP. Energy started actually only a couple months ago 16 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:51,600 there back in January. So yeah, just kind of learn, learn the ropes and how everything operates. But 17 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:56,480 yeah, it's going well so far. I'm enjoying it. The last few months of your life. Oh, unbelievable. 18 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:05,440 Of course. But no, that's really great to hear. So Peter, how long have you been in the sector? 19 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:12,320 Yeah, so I suppose I really started in the sector when I was just after I turned 18 now. 20 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:18,560 So around about seven years. It hasn't been a full, you know, full time seven years. I've been 21 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:25,440 really in part time, you know, going from a few jobs over the last few years. But in the background 22 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:31,920 I've also had my re-work going on. So just been in a lot of those energy assessments in the 23 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:36,560 background kind of thing. So that's where I've really been, you know, keeping up. My focus is 24 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:43,280 going there kind of a thing over the last few years. Yeah, but definitely a good wee sector to be involved in. 25 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,920 That's great. That's great to hear. And you were formerly, you used to be at an 26 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:54,480 housing association, didn't you? Yes, yes. So I was an energy officer at a housing association there 27 00:02:54,480 --> 00:03:01,600 for a year. So a lot of, you know, a few interesting things just mainly to do with obviously your 28 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:07,200 your domestic properties and the kind of scope that the social housing has to deal with. You know, 29 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:12,160 there's a lot of people, a lot of properties and then a lot of people as well too. So, you know, 30 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:17,680 it's just kind of tackling those wee, you know, any areas of concern that might come up. 31 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:23,600 Very good. Very good. And you're also, so you're a sustainability engineer, but then you're also 32 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:32,640 qualified, as I was saying at the start, an NDA, OCDA and DEA. And I know you kind of do uni. 33 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:39,840 So I've talked about in the podcast where I myself, I assess construction projects, 34 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:46,800 but you're able to assess existing properties and make recommendations on how to improve their 35 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:54,240 energy efficiency. Yes, yeah. So I was in the DEA, Domestic Energy Assessor, and so got qualified 36 00:03:54,240 --> 00:04:02,160 for that myself around COVID time there. We kind of did a few jobs for a few people and they just 37 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:07,680 kind of kept building them out there. And one thing that always came up was obviously there 38 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:13,440 in certain aspects of, you know, letting out properties, it helped meet certain standards. 39 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:19,520 Part of my role was helping landlords meet new standards for as cheap as possible, to be honest 40 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,040 with you, you know, it's all, I'm starting to money at the end of the day. 41 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,560 Oh yes. No, here, I would be the same if it was a focus and a my way. 42 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:34,400 No, I shouldn't say that. No, I want to, not that I have a house, like this is purely the 43 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:43,840 fear. When I get a house, I'm going to hopefully make it as energy efficient as possible. That's 44 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:49,760 brilliant. And let me ask you, see at school, did you ever envisage yourself in this sector? 45 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:56,240 No, definitely not. Basically how I came in to be involved in this sector was a teacher of mine. 46 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:02,880 He had a friend who owned a consultancy himself and he was looking for like a friend of a placement 47 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:08,400 studenty thing over the summer. And so I ended up getting involved with those guys and yeah, 48 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:13,040 just had to have it basically for like summer years and don't think you're trying to say it 49 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,080 was slowing down yet. So keep them, keep it on, you know. 50 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:17,520 Never look back. Never look back. 51 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:25,360 People that brings us on to today's episode topic, which is about retrofitting because Peter, 52 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,840 you've had experience making recommendations. Yes. 53 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:34,080 Yeah. To retrofit and we're going to explain a bit about what retrofitting is. I'm actually 54 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:41,280 going to say the episode title. So the episode title is go, let's go retrofitting. And I thought 55 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:47,120 that was like, you know, the best thing in the world. It's kind of there because I knew I wanted 56 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:53,120 to have you on and then it just like came to me. This is it. This is how we do it. Okay. 57 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:58,960 So in construction, retrofitting is where new features and technologies are added to old and 58 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:05,280 historical buildings. Buildings can be retrofitted for various reasons, such as to make them more 59 00:06:05,280 --> 00:06:10,880 energy efficient, as we just talked about, or improve their climate resilience. This is directly 60 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:17,440 copied from like, you know, so examples of retrofitting can be doors can be draft proof. 61 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:23,840 And this will also reduce their air leakage. Windows can be upgraded to double glazing or 62 00:06:23,840 --> 00:06:32,080 triple glazing and also draft proof. Roofs can have additional insulation added or also check out 63 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:39,040 their ventilation. I know one of my say one of my friends, but the mechanical engineer upstairs, 64 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:43,360 he was telling me about how he got his roof. He got the positive input ventilation. Yes. 65 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:50,080 The FVB system. Yeah. And he said it really helped. Floors can also be installed with insulation. 66 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:56,000 And then walls and their surfaces can be cladded or fitted with cavity wall for external wall 67 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:01,040 insulation. Yeah. And then lights can be optimized. There can be heating upgrades 68 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:06,720 or renewable energy systems can be installed like solar panels. On the site I was looking at also 69 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:14,880 get like solar panels or wind energy. And on the EPC or on the EPC software, there is an option for 70 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:24,080 turbines. Yes, I think more rural areas. So unfortunately, I've never had to use it. 71 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:32,480 Hopefully soon. Hopefully soon. Okay, well, I hope you enjoyed that general explanation listeners 72 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:40,640 and Peter, of course, you already knew this being in the sector seven years. Okay. DG know, according 73 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:48,720 to citychanger.org that retrofitting helps improve the energy efficiency ratings, which has been 74 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:56,720 proven to rise the valuation of one's home. And also the average price hike for this can be 75 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:04,000 considerable. And there's research showing that it's up the price valuation by about 24,000 pounds. 76 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:09,520 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's a good comment. Like, you know, especially if you have a house that you 77 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:15,360 maybe been living in for 15 years and, you know, maybe you're in the next 10, 20 or you're going to 78 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:23,040 sell it. It's definitely worthwhile to make some investments, you know, energy wise, especially 79 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:27,600 when people are looking at the EPC rating that really does help. It actually helps a lot of banks 80 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:33,840 as well too for mortgages. Really helps, you know, get your evaluation for effectively getting your 81 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:39,040 house, your house for what it's worth kind of a thing. Yeah. Yeah. So it's definitely, definitely 82 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:45,520 something people should look out for and maybe pay a bit more attention to. It's EPC values of even, 83 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:51,120 you know, potential homes that are going to be purchased and stuff like that. I think that is 84 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:58,640 coming more into play now. Yes. See, when I say back, when I first started out, you could tell 85 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:04,720 like the EPCs or the SAP calculations that you get off the same software, they're more just a check 86 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:11,440 box, more like, okay, the solicitor says we need to have this. Yeah. So yeah, give me this. But now 87 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:16,720 you can tell clients are becoming more like aware or more like here, this actually is important. 88 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:22,160 Yeah. And it's not even, not even the clients I've had dealings with, like you said, the bank 89 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:28,880 and they're like, give me the EPC ratings of this because we want to calculate their EPC. 90 00:09:29,680 --> 00:09:33,520 And this is the thing with it. Like, so when you're talking about EPC, there's a lot of different 91 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:40,880 names for it called EPC or SAP rating or asset rating. And yeah, so it's interesting the 92 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:45,600 terminology. Yeah, that's been used as well. Actually, it's gotten forward there last week, 93 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:51,600 a lot of English banks as well too. They're actually not willing to lend on a property 94 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:58,160 that's less than a D. So I think you could have, you know, a large maybe a remortgage or 95 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:04,960 buy more houses that, you know, these banks are coming to them and we're not going to be able 96 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:10,320 to lend against that because of the rating, which is probably like a direct reflection on the actual 97 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:15,360 price itself. And I think that's where they're taking that from is, you know, if that's a D, 98 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,520 that's going to be all right house. But if that's your E, it's not going to be great. You know, 99 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,800 we're going to have to put money into that and then that's going to have a knock on the 100 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:28,960 fact that this kind of thing. Yeah. Brilliant. And also I have one more tip for you. 101 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:36,160 Did you know homes with solar panels are more likely to sell for more than they're asking price? 102 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:41,280 And apologies. I thought that was going to have more detail there, but yeah, 103 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:47,040 apparently solar panels make them more attractive. I saw them. I just, you know, 104 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:54,880 have a free energy really, especially when we don't get many sunny days. But you know, 105 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:00,480 those days they are there. Everybody has a washing machine on them. Yeah. Yeah. This is making the 106 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:10,800 most of them. Okay. Well, thanks Peter. Thanks for your insight into the... So as we talked about your 107 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:16,880 domestic energy assessor, could you describe the exact process you go through when you survey a 108 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:24,400 building on your PC? Yes. So basically I would walk in or sorry, I arrive at the property first 109 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:30,320 and I would look at the elevations. So that would be your front and your side and your rear. And 110 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,600 then obviously you have your mid-tires. So it would just be the front and the rear. 111 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:40,320 And then go and take my measurements. So the measurements are used for working out the floor 112 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:46,880 area and the heat loss parameter. And then I would start to look at what is happening inside the 113 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:55,440 house. You know, what boiler is it? Is it radiators or underfloor heating? Are there TRVs on the 114 00:11:55,440 --> 00:12:01,200 radiators? If there are radiators and your heating controls, you know, are there programmers? And 115 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:07,840 then I'll be looking at stuff like the window thickness, insulation thickness, and in the loft, 116 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:14,880 how many habitable rooms there are as well too. And then suppose another aspect that we'll be 117 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:20,400 looking at the actual date of the building. So you kind of after you've done a few of them, 118 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:26,000 you kind of get the food in on the brick work and you can kind of guess, you know, okay, I know that 119 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:33,200 was 1970s or I know that's going to be solid brick and because of the bricks are a different way, 120 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:38,960 which would be around the early 1900s would have been built and stuff like that there. So after a 121 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,960 while you kind of just get used to it. You know, exactly what you're looking for. 122 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:49,520 And then when you go in as well too, you kind of go off the top of your head if this house is going 123 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:56,640 to be good or bad. But sometimes, you know, you could easily see like, for example, I've gone into 124 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:04,000 houses where it's the oil boiler with a water tank and there's no insulation around the water tank. 125 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:08,880 And you know, there's just a big copper vessel storing your water and it's losing, you know, 126 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:16,480 heat like tomorrow. So it's been recommendations that really help the property for real estate 127 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:22,720 under 100 quid. Like, you know, you get your set up in the house, there's no LED light bulbs, 128 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:31,120 there's no, you know, insulation on the water tank, 30 quid for your installation around the 129 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,360 water tank and at least up to, you know, 60 to 90 quid for your light bulbs kind of a thing. 130 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,960 And you're actually already up a couple points for people, you know. 131 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:45,360 And it improves like, this is the thing that, like, it's probably, you've probably seen it, 132 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:51,840 but the difference between assessment between non-domestic and domestic, like domestic, 133 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:55,680 I think, like non-domestic, it's really great, it's really detailed, you can get a lot of 134 00:13:55,680 --> 00:14:02,160 information from. But domestic, like, I'd be really focused on it because it affects people, 135 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:08,400 it affects your home. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you're coming home to either a warm house or a cold 136 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:14,400 house and, you know, it's like, you put the heating on for two or three hours and then as 137 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,080 soon as you switch that heating off, how long does that house stay on the warm floor? You know, 138 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,840 is it going to be 20 minutes, you're freezing again, or are you going to switch it off and, 139 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,960 you know, you might have two or three hours of nice warm heat, similarly with your hot 140 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:32,960 water as well. One of the things when you're talking, like, I don't think people, like, people 141 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:39,040 should be entitled or people should know that they have a right to a comfortable. Exactly. 142 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:44,720 And I think about it as well too, the biggest bill most people are paying every month is their 143 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:50,080 mortgage. Yeah. So a lot of their money is going into this house and you could be going, you know, 144 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:55,680 it's, so, you know, it can be ridiculous sometimes as well too, you know, people really are not 145 00:14:55,680 --> 00:15:02,160 looking. It's always like, you know, an MOT for your house. All those kind of things, you know, 146 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:07,760 go get, you get your oil changed in your car every, you know, six months at a roll, that or over time. 147 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:13,680 Same thing with any PC, make sure you're checking up and your insulation and your light bulbs and, 148 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:19,280 you know, your heating controls, because I know for a lot of people, they would just stick the 149 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:23,520 heating on all day, they wouldn't really know how to work it. Yes. Yeah. And that's one thing I 150 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:29,360 actually came across quite a bit in the social housing aspect. You know, people would just come 151 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:34,960 in or wake up in the morning, switch it on and it'd be on from nine o'clock until 10 o'clock at night. 152 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:40,000 Wow. And then knocking it off and they're spending, you know, a fortune on it. Yeah. But if you have 153 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:45,760 a reasonable program, it's each of you here, it's say if you, you know, if you're up at nine, 154 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:54,080 have it all from eight until ten. So really have, you know, a bag all from six to ten at night kind 155 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:59,280 of a thing, you know, you have to really start and look at your actual heating controls and 156 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:05,280 program to suit you best. It's going to be different as well, too. Yeah. No, you're just 157 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:10,880 right. You're just right. I think McGonagall was in her house, like, but she was like, she was the 158 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,680 worst for it. She'd come in, it was roasted. Then she'd be like, I have to order oil. Yeah. 159 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:21,920 You know, no wonder. Yeah. Yeah. Switching it on for nine hours. You know, when you said, 160 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,560 when you said about the MOT or you said about changing oil for your car, reminds me I need to 161 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:35,520 do my car. That's brilliant. Peter, thank you so much for your thoughts on that. So can I ask, 162 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:41,440 so again, we're talking about your qualifications, your OCDA, your NDA, your DEA, you've got an 163 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:49,600 alphabet after. Can you tell us about the training you went through to obtain those? 164 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:56,480 Yeah. So the OCDA on the construction domestic energy sensor that was done through 165 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:05,120 Allenhurst. It was a course basically. If I remember correctly, I think you just did a few assessments in 166 00:17:05,120 --> 00:17:12,160 the house with the Allenhurst coordinator or whatever. And then you're basically, after a 167 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,960 couple of days, you were given your accreditation that was you sent on your merry way. And then, 168 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,400 you know, I suppose a lot of it is it's all well and good. You have a two day training course and 169 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:29,840 now you're an accredited assessor. But it's really about building up that experience of doing 170 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:36,080 houses and different house types and apartments and different heating systems and all that there. 171 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:44,960 Then with the domestic energy assessor, so the EPCs, that was done online over a three day course. 172 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:51,600 So there's two minds when it comes to the training. You have the one where you pay for the 173 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:58,880 classroom course slightly longer, but you come out with your accreditation at the end. Now, 174 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,200 me personally, I haven't done it, so I can't really speak on it too much. But 175 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:07,600 people would say, don't be doing the online course. You're not learning anything. But 176 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:13,520 I disagree with that. You're still getting that walk through of your EPC software. 177 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:20,960 But we were given a portfolio. So you basically did two with the trainers and you did three by 178 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:26,640 yourself. I think doing the three by yourself with effectively no one helping you is a wee bit better 179 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:31,840 because it's more real world. Effectively, you have to set up appointments to go to this person's house, 180 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:37,440 serve it, do it all yourself. And then obviously you're giving feedback and you need a change. 181 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,920 And whereas if you were doing it in this classroom environment, everybody's going out 182 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:47,840 in the same house, everybody's doing the same. It's almost like a sense of security goes right out. 183 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,240 Just if I don't know what's happening, I'll just ask them. They'll be able to tell me. But if 184 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:59,600 done online by yourself, you've or yourself to blame kind of a thing. You can learn from mistakes 185 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:06,080 and stuff like that. And then similarly to the no domestic energy assessor course, it was pretty 186 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:12,000 much the same process as the domestic. But yeah, the no domestic is just a different kind of fish 187 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:18,560 like when it comes to detail and stuff like that. No, I remember you said there about like building 188 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:26,800 up experience, but I remember I think I was here a year. So kind of like they was like assessing a 189 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:32,000 year before I did any actual qualifications. And when I went to do the qualifications, I'm like, 190 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:37,440 brilliant. I know everything. But see, looking back now, I'm like, oh my goodness. I didn't know 191 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:43,680 everything. It's only after the experience you build up over time. Exactly. Like it's all well 192 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,160 and good. You go into a house and survey it. But when you have a tenant there sitting breathed on 193 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:53,840 your neck asking a million questions and why does this not work? Or even a landlord come back to why 194 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:59,840 you need a 39. Even though it might be a 36, it might be more here. Yeah, no, it's not. 195 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:08,080 It's like, wait, wait, wait. How's this works? Unfortunately, you know, the job. Would you have 196 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:13,680 any tips for like any guides to read up on for saying anyone who wants to become an energy 197 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:20,800 assessor? I suppose a lot of the Almhurst stuff is really, really informative. I think Almhurst is 198 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:27,920 probably the gold standard when it comes to energy sensors. It's a couple of the UK. I should tag them 199 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:35,840 in this. Give me a shout out here. Am I going to be caught? So, you know, just any other tactical 200 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:41,360 guides and be a good read up on them. There's a lot of retrofit assessor stuff. 201 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:48,160 Similarity as well. If I was going for one of them, it would be Almhurst kind of thing. 202 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:56,480 There's also in general for energy assessment, there's the SOP 2012 or SOP 10 manual. These are 203 00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:02,240 all free manuals from the BRE website. So they can be accessed. I'll post links to them. 204 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:10,960 Brilliant. Okay, well, Peter, we're coming up to a section in which it's a section, I tailor 205 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:18,560 towards each guest in the episode. So it's called them. It's actually, it's the same as the title. 206 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:24,960 It's called Let's Go Retrofitting. I think when people see the episode title, they'll be like, 207 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:33,600 wow, that's, that's groundbreaking. Okay. Can you tell me when the first EPC was done in the UK? 208 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:42,560 I was going to say probably, I think 2009, but I have a feeling it might be a wee bit before then. 209 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:48,880 You know what? 2009 is actually, I think when the first EPC was done for Northern Ireland, 210 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:56,480 here 2008 or 2009. I looked it up and the co-pilot they knew was able to tell me. Okay. So 211 00:21:57,120 --> 00:22:02,640 first of August 2007 is when they were first introduced into England and Wales. Okay. 212 00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:08,320 They were introduced due to the requirements of the EU directive of energy performance of buildings 213 00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:15,120 and were part of your home energy pack, your E-Hit. Which was, and apparently this was the 214 00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:22,000 thing before EPCs. This was the home energy pack or home, sorry, not the home energy pack, my bad, 215 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:29,360 the home information pack. And this was played by people who were selling the properties with four 216 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:37,520 bedrooms or more. And little fact that the home information pack, it's no longer required. It's 217 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:47,520 just the EPC. So kind of, you come on this podcast to everyday's learning day. Okay. 218 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:56,320 Second question. Do you know how many buildings the NI energy strategy stated it needs to retrofit 219 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:01,280 each year in order to meet their outline targets of carbon reduction of buildings? 220 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:06,080 Oh, I have no clue, but I'll throw a guess of this is each year, not in total. 221 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,120 No, actually it does give a number. I was going to be like, well, it gives me a percentage, but no, 222 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:15,120 hold on, it gives me a number. So each year I'm going to say at least 15,000. 223 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:18,720 You know what? You're close. Okay. It's 50,000. 224 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:30,000 Yes, it is estimated that 70% of buildings in use in 2010 will still exist in 2050. So we may need 225 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:36,480 to retrofit approximately 50,000 buildings each year around three times the current level we're at now. 226 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:44,800 So this, yeah, that's a big task to be really increased focus likes of retrofitting. The 227 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:52,400 minimum energy efficiency standards state what EPC rating is required in order to flat out a building. 228 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,080 Can you tell me that rating? I think I can't. 229 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:02,640 Now, is it a 39E? You know what? You went really in detail that you get the number. It is an E. 230 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:03,680 There you go. 231 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:11,440 Yes. So April 20, 2008 saw further implementation of the minimum energy efficiency standards in 232 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,640 England and Wales. And I think something applied to New York and Ireland. 233 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,160 Yeah, we're almost so far behind. 234 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:21,440 We always, we either encompass it or we don't encompass it. Like, you know, it's very, it's 235 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:28,240 annoying. And I think April 2020, did we have an executive then? I don't know. 236 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:36,320 We probably didn't. Yes. So April 2020 saw the implementation of the energy efficiency standards. 237 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:41,920 This makes it illegal for private landlords to rent out any properties which have EPC rating 238 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:47,920 worse than an E. And you must have an EPC rating that is not a standard. 239 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:56,800 And you must have an EPC if you rent out or sell the premises. It's a building under construction, 240 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,520 which is about to be finished. And you've changed a number of parts to the building 241 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:09,200 on separate occasions. So it involves upgrading the heating, air condition, or ventilation, 242 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,720 or changing the actual structure, which is kind of falls under retrofit. 243 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:21,760 But yeah. Okay. So like, if you don't have it, so if any of the stuff happens, you like any of the 244 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:26,720 following criteria, like rent or sell, building under construction, or you change effects heating, 245 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:32,880 which we're going to, which will affect the energy for the EPC rating. Can you tell me how much you'll 246 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:39,920 be fined if you don't have one? If you don't have one? I would say 20 grand. 247 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:44,240 Close. It's actually between 500 and 5,000. 248 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:46,740 Do that. 249 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,120 But yes, it's based on the rateable value of the building. 250 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:57,280 So if you don't make an EPC available to any prospective buyer or tenant. 251 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,040 Yeah. Well, thanks for playing the Let's Go Retro. 252 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,440 I hope you did well. 253 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:16,880 But yes. Okay. So NI Energy Strategy wants to deliver energy savings of 25% from buildings 254 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:25,280 and industry by 2030, and ensure all new buildings are net zero, ready by 2026 and 2027, 255 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:31,600 or earlier if practical. As an experienced energy successor, with existing housing stock, 256 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:37,120 and an OCDA. Do you think this is possible? So the question is basically, 257 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:44,640 are they on track for getting 25% of these houses up to standard? In your opinion, 258 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:51,120 do you think they would be on track? No. No chance. No, I think there's just, there's not enough 259 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:57,120 attention. But the worst of that is definitely getting, you know, more and more people are 260 00:26:57,120 --> 00:27:01,920 getting interested and talking about it. Like, but I think we're, we're, we're way off, like, 261 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,480 2030, which is about six, six years. Don't say that. 262 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:15,600 I know. So, you know, I think there's definitely, no, I don't think, personally, no, I don't think 263 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,000 it would be. You know what, you're exactly right. I've got the kind of same opinion. I see a lot of 264 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:25,600 people talking about it. Yeah. Raising awareness, which is amazing. But I'm like, where's the action? 265 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:33,920 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What I hate is even, like the problem I see now, and I've talked about this in, 266 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:39,360 I think in the first episode was about the energy assessment software and the software methodology. 267 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:47,280 Northern Ireland, Brander, SAP 2009. Okay. And that is a software, as you can guess, 268 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:54,160 which came out in 2009. That's 15 years ago. 15 years ago. And now we've got like, you know, 269 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:58,480 they've told us like, oh, make a percentage reduction, but we're still using a 15 year old 270 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:04,720 software. And it's actually a software that's considered security risk. Like they only have it 271 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:12,880 on one computer in the check in, um, QA office. Uh, but like the fact we've got that, like, 272 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:18,080 we're not, we're not, we can't even assess them properly. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, so even when 273 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:24,560 like someone goes in, makes a change, they're like, oh, how did that help my, help my building? 274 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,920 And they're like, oh yeah, you went up two points. You're like, what's the point? Like, 275 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:29,600 I'm not going to make the... Yeah. It's getting that much more, you're 276 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:37,280 fairly about two points. Yeah. Exactly. So it's, it's annoying. And yeah, it's, it's, it is annoying. 277 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:43,360 But one of the things that was used to address this, they said, oh yeah, Northern Ireland, 278 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:48,240 we're going to go under the new energy assessment methodology in 2025, 279 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:57,760 sub 10, but that's, that's in 2025. And I'm like, so that's another year. So, um, so yeah. So then 280 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:05,280 you've only got five years to meet the 20, if you want. And so that's definitely going to be a big 281 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:10,400 job. You know, this is that's up 10 is quite, it's only came out there last year. Yeah. So there's 282 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:15,120 basically going to be 14 years difference. Yeah. You know, so what's that going to have 283 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:21,520 cost wise for architects, builders, exactly. X, Y, Z. Like, you know, it's going to be quite a 284 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:26,720 shock to the system. I think my kind of thing is that you've got energy assessors, aren't there? 285 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:31,600 You've got existing energy assessors, you're employed by a state agents. They go around, 286 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:37,600 they assess, um, houses. Okay. And they're used to the methodology, but then they're going to have to 287 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:42,400 get used to this. And they've been in Northern Ireland. They've been using SAP 2009 for the last 288 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:47,920 15 years. They've got used to that software. And then when SAP 10 comes out, they're like, hold on, 289 00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:55,440 what is this? Yeah. I've asked like, I've asked this in the consultation. I didn't ask about SAP, 290 00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:00,160 but I asked about the one I bring in, you know, the overheating criteria. They want to bring that 291 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,720 into Northern Ireland. And I'm like, so I asked them, like, there's going to be any training 292 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,680 involved. Like, you know, are you going to like appeal to local energy assessors? Yeah. Because 293 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,240 why is it like a government funded kind of a training scenario? Like, yeah, 294 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,480 because a lot of the overheating assessment that would take place would be done over in 295 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,840 England or Scotland or Wales, but like Northern Ireland, there is no requirement to do anything. 296 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,720 And it's like, so why would people get qualified for something that's not going to affect them? 297 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,320 Yeah, exactly. And then so that's going to be another criteria that just comes in and shocks 298 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:39,040 people. I have to chuck out all this money to get trained in this. And it's annoying because 299 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,280 they're implementing these really great measures. They're being like, yeah, we're going to do this. 300 00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,120 That's really great, but you don't have the tools to do it. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 301 00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:48,880 I told you, so just kind of went off in attention. 302 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:58,240 But that's great. No, I'm glad we're in agreement with that question. Peter, 303 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:05,040 thank you so much for coming on. You're really great to have. You're having me? Yeah, no, 304 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:10,400 of course. So just before we go, do you have any advice for future prospective engineers, 305 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:18,480 modellers or energy assessors looking to get into this sector? My advice would be get in this. Get 306 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,960 as much experience as you can from people around you. Do as many quarters as you can. 307 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:30,320 Try to get as many letters off your name as you can. But this is a sector that's really grown. 308 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:36,720 It's only getting bigger and bigger. I don't know about you, I've been hearing people on the radio 309 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:43,200 and emails, adverse on TV. That's switch and save. How much you save on your energy bills, 310 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:51,120 do the X, Y, Z. So energy is coming in hard here. And I think it's one of these sectors 311 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:58,960 that's going to get growing and growing. It's only been really big the last 20, 30 years. 312 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:06,480 Yeah, I would say that. So imagine 20, 30 years in the future. What's this going to be? 313 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:15,200 So I think there's plenty of money being made in it. It is interesting work. The thing about it is 314 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:20,720 no two projects are the same, realistically. There's many different types of buildings and 315 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:28,160 different types of heating systems. It is an interesting sector. It's going to be 316 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:33,760 only up. So get in there. Thanks very much, Peter. My advice would be, 317 00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,160 I usually have something prepared and it's usually fun based. I'd be like, join the fun. 318 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:47,680 Just join the madness. But no, thanks for coming on, Pete. And you'll definitely be back on. 319 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:54,240 Thank you very much. Thanks for listening to Carbon Climates. If you follow us on Instagram 320 00:32:54,240 --> 00:33:01,120 at carbon under draw climates, you can keep up to date with all our latest news and information on 321 00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,720 episode uploads. Okay. Thanks for listening. Bye. 322 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:18,000 Bye.