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Hello, welcome and thanks for listening to Carbon Climates, an energy podcast dedicated

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to discussing all things energy, carbon and sustainability while pointing out what's

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getting hot, aside from our planet.

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I'm your host Aine and today I'm joined with my Carbon Climate co-host and boss Alan,

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who I'll be introducing shortly.

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Alan, how has your week been and can you tell us a bit about yourself?

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Thank you for having me on the show, Enya, and it's been quite busy so I'm getting ready

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to go on holiday for the week so I'm being tortured all week with people trying to get

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things done.

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So about me then, so I'm the director of BPP, I've been involved in building services for

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about close to 40 years.

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Wow.

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And I've been in the Coalwell Group for about 27 years and the past six of that I've been

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the director of BPP, which is a sustainability company with a bit of energy and sustainability.

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It's kind of a bit about me.

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Nice, nice.

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And so yeah, you said that and see when you were at school, I know maybe around like GCSE

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time or maybe like around the 14, 15 year olds, your 14 or 15 year old self, did you

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ever like envisage yourself in the sector where you are now?

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The sector, because the sector I first went into was building services and building services

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can be a hidden sector.

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I didn't think it would be an engineer because you always liked engineering, you always liked

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mathematics and like discovering things and it's kind of naturally gravitated towards

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that sort of job.

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I first got into building services, I didn't really know what it was because it was all

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pipes and lights and hidden things and it led a whole new world of discovery of things

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that are hidden behind where it works and that led on to the interest in energy and

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I wanted to know that could actually make a difference in the world.

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There's a whole hidden world and I became fascinated with it.

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Okay, well as you just said, so BPP, we at BPP are sustainability engineers and our primary

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role is to act as energy assessors for buildings during construction and usually they can just

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be existing as well.

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So we do this by usually talking to the client and understand what they want to have designed

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for the building, so it goes down to the heating, hot water and ventilation, types of walls,

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windows etc. the list goes on.

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Once we have this information we then input it into a specialist software and this gives

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a carbon score or a building emission rate against the calculated target score or target

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emission rate, essentially how much carbon the building is being emitted.

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For domestic softwares this is shown through SAP calculations and for non-domestic softwares

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this is shown through Bregos and these softwares also produce an EPC rating which is an energy

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performance rating.

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I go into more detail about this in episode one of the podcast but I just wanted to recap

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and summarise this as we'll focus somewhere like tip toe around these subjects today.

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So the scores I've previously mentioned, the BER, the building emission rate and TER, they

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are able to fluctuate depending on what type of technology, equipment and constructions

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the buildings are designed to.

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So this could be the type of boiler, amount of insulation in the window, or whether the

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window of insulation in the wall or whether the window is double glazed or triple glazed

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or if there are any renewable technologies installed.

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So Alan, the energy sector is constantly evolving with these different renewable technologies,

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energy efficiency methods etc but what have been the major changes you have witnessed

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with regards to what we've just talked about?

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It's an interesting question and it's probably important to understand that when you look

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at a regular or a part F or a building regulation calculation or an EPC or a real life calculation

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they're all different and they mean different things and what you're seeing is the emergence

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of people being more aware of what they actually mean.

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We put in some perspective a building control calculation is a comparison with a theoretical

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benchmark that's used as the first sort of experiment with the regulations to sort of

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come up with some way of creating is my building good enough, is it not good enough?

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An EPC is a theoretical comparison with a standard reference building.

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So it's how you compare to a certain building, you're not being compared against a benchmark

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building.

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In a real life it's what people really are starting to get into for it.

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So what you're seeing is that you're seeing a progression of how people think of energy

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and tackle energy.

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So you have, you know when building regulations first sort of came in in around mid 2000s

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you would have had things like borders all of a sudden couldn't be sold because they

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weren't efficient enough.

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Yeah.

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And people sort of thinking about that because before that they were thinking about well

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this is a very sturdy border, it's very robust, it'll last 50 or 60 years but it's not very

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efficient and then people sort of thinking about that and you just find people selling

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borders getting quite upset that they couldn't sell the borders anymore.

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And as the progressions move forward so heating, borders, ventilation started getting looked

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at in a lot more detail.

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You had lighting starting to become a bit more detailed and the progression is going

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further and further into the fabric of a building.

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So you'd have the values, the windows, the glazing, the orientation of it.

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That has more focus because it's almost like the services are being squeezed as much as

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they can.

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That's where we're going.

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So you see that progression coming into it.

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You also see more importance put on to some of the badges you get like how much you improve

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over a brickle calculation or how much you have an EPCA.

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And it's coming from different sources.

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So firstly it came from the regulations themselves force people to make a change.

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You then have planning influences where some planning councils will say in order to build

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in this area you have to have a certain value.

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We're now seeing it progressing more with financial institutions saying that we will

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not invest in a building or invest in a development without you having certain sustainable goals.

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And a lot of that's from public pressure and public awareness.

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So it's becoming higher and then the public awareness which is feeding through in a very

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odd way.

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So it's saying it's more awareness I think on that.

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That's brilliant to see.

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And even what you're saying there about more awareness, I'm even finding when we're talking

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to different people in the design team, the likes of when we're talking to the architects,

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we're discussing U-values which is measure of heat loss through the wall.

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I remember at the start it used to be this U-value, yes we're going to give you this

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figure.

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But then we actually started like, okay actually how's that achieved?

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How much insulation is that in?

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Is that in the wall?

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Or we didn't take account for bridging the steel, the timber frame construction.

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And I felt like this is starting to be looked at more because U-values are getting tighter

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and just people are understanding what exactly that means.

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Yes, I would agree with that.

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And again, it's because of the progress of sustainability through the services and the

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fabric that because the services are being reduced so much, there's less heat loss in

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a building.

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And then you're finding that things like the thermal bridges and the way that the wall

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is constructed that in the past may have had a small change on the U-value, now it becomes

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quite a dominant change on the U-value.

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So to squeeze that last bit out of heat retention, you have to look at those areas and that's

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becoming more and more of a focus for design things like that.

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Yeah, it's really great to see.

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It's really good to see.

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Well, definitely just from your previous explanations there, you have a vast majority, vast pile

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of knowledge.

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Did you do any particular training to get that, all the energy accreditations you have

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under your belt?

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Or is there a particular route you would recommend for people to go down to get to the point

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where you're at today?

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That's a good question because energy assessment sustainability is relatively new.

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It has always been about, but it's relatively new compared to other professions like the

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sort of mechanical engineering, electrical engineering, or architectural engineering,

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it's going to go back sort of centuries.

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So I would say be curious.

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So the thing that kind of drives me and has driven me is to do with the curiosity of how

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things actually perform in real life.

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So the one thing you always have to be aware of is whatever you're assessing, whatever

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you're doing, what is the real life scenario and what is happening in real life?

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And that's kind of what drives a lot of the experience and practical knowledge.

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So a lot of it is actually common sense.

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So you develop an awareness of common sense.

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Right, that's not qualifications, that's just being aware of how things react in real life.

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What's the consequence of doing something or not the consequence of doing something?

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So you need that as your core starting point and you build off that.

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Then there's formal qualifications.

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You can have, you know, there are good mathematics, you can come from a geography background or

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mathematics or an engineering background.

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It doesn't really matter as long as you've got that core kind of sense of curiosity about

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the world around you and perhaps a concern about sustainability.

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So the formality of it, there's a couple of routes.

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There's sustainable assessment, which forms into it as well as things like the BRAEM assessors

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now, which is formal routes through the BRE.

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There are then formal routes to energy assessment accreditation.

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So you need that to do an EPC.

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And in order to achieve that, that would be like the CIBSA or Realmhurst or something

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like that can offer that accreditation.

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But in order to have that, you would probably have to have a degree and a master's degree

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off the back of that.

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So that's kind of where that's coming from.

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So that's where the educational route to get to that point.

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And from then, you then build off various courses or specialities of that.

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So you can go into the fabric and look at the U-values and look at those sorts of things.

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And it's worthwhile having training separate from those.

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You would look at the energy assessments, you would look at real life predictions, you

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can do courses on those and they're all sort of top into it.

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So the sustainability isn't so much you do a qualification to become sustainable, you

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do a qualification to get into sustainability and then you continue for the rest of your

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career doing courses and revising and looking at CPDs and continually learning as the process

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of all as to keep on top of it.

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So it's sort of a strange thing, I think.

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But the biggest thing, if you're curious about the subject, you can come from any background

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and get into this from any way.

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You don't have to, you don't have to start at age 12 and become a physics master to do

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this.

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This is the sort of thing that you learn and you can learn.

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That's really great to hear because one of the main reasons I started this podcast, I

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started for many reasons, but this main one, I know so many people who have trained, updated

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degree at uni in some sort of something, go into the real job and they realise they hate

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it and then they feel like they're stuck and then they spend their life like they spend

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like maybe the next five years unhappy searching like, you know, for different routes, but

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showing them that like you can have any degree you want and you can come into this really

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interesting ever changing industry.

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That's going to be at the forefront of so many news articles to show them like it makes

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it exciting.

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Like if you tell if you advertise that to anyone, they'll be like, yeah, I want to I

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want a bit of that exposure there.

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But yeah, that's really good to hear.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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So now we are coming to the question round.

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So this is the assessing the asset section.

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So this is just a wee section where I maybe talk about different technologies.

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We've come across as energy assessors and yeah, and then I'm going to have a wee from

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the later on, which I'll explain the details just before.

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So there are many different technologies that can be installed in your house or building

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that can help for just for just energy.

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So Alan, I'm going to list some energy saving technologies or techniques or words that we

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come across when we look at a building.

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I'm going to list the opposite word.

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Okay.

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So you have to guess.

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Sounds curious.

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I've got two really hard ones and then I've got like, you know, some hopefully you should

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be able to get.

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And then if you do, I'll keep on doing this.

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And if not, we never mentioned this actually again.

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Okay.

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That's good.

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Okay.

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So the first word is cold gain.

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Yes, exactly.

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So yeah, we come across heat loss.

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Okay.

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Next one.

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Me worthless.

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Yeah.

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Me worthless.

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You value me.

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Yeah.

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Okay.

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This one.

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It's difficult because it is a sin of a day term.

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Glare.

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I think the opposite of glare.

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I'm curious about what that is.

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Shading.

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Shading.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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Now this one, these two, they weren't my best, but I'll see what happens.

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Okay.

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This is a specific type I'm talking about.

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Okay.

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Solid opening conductor.

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Arch, right?

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I want to come get that.

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Solid opening conductor.

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Cavity, wall, insulation.

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Okay.

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I've got one more.

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And again, it might be a stretch, but like then people can play at home.

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Like we can see if they can get this.

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Conserve, fire, hold, loss.

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What was that again?

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Conserve, fire, hold, loss.

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That's a heat something heat game.

241
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Right.

242
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:26,560
Okay.

243
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,560
Waste water, heat recovery.

244
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:30,560
Yes.

245
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Somebody with something else.

246
00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:34,560
That's very good.

247
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,560
You know, you should create a crossword.

248
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:37,560
Yeah.

249
00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,560
Like a version of the Times Crossword.

250
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:41,560
Yeah.

251
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:46,160
It'll be, yeah, I'll go out simultaneously with this.

252
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:47,160
But yeah.

253
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:48,160
Okay.

254
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:53,560
Well, thank you for playing the assessing the assets round of the enjoy your time.

255
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,560
That's very good.

256
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:56,560
Yeah.

257
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:57,560
Okay.

258
00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,920
Well, as you mentioned, you're credited to assess buildings in Northern Ireland, Wales,

259
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:03,960
England, Scotland and Republic of Ireland.

260
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:08,560
So that's a lot of different regions for like to assess energy.

261
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:14,360
I think we kind of did touch on this, but what is your favourite region to assess in?

262
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:15,360
Okay.

263
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:22,080
It's like they all have their plus points and different, different strategies for doing

264
00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:23,080
things.

265
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:28,000
I think probably as a favourite, it'll probably be England.

266
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,440
Maybe an odd choice, but it's really because it's probably the more aggressive and you

267
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:38,960
can assess it using software that allows you to get a good insight into it.

268
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So I think that's probably where the rest will go to.

269
00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,440
That's probably why, because it's more advanced than you can assess it using software that

270
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allows you to get really into the calculations and see why things and what can influence

271
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it in a better way.

272
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,200
That's okay.

273
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:02,800
That's great to hear.

274
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:09,080
I know one of the big changes that happened for us in, I think was it September 2020 or

275
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September 2018, was the release of the energy assessment guidance for the Greater London

276
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Authority.

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What that did is that mentioned a particular section where it talked about the carbon factor

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of electricity and the effect all the connecting to the renewables, all the connection of renewables

279
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to the national grid was having on electricity.

280
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And for us, I think we were assessing stuff.

281
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A lot of the developments maybe had gas boilers or they're really primarily focused on gas.

282
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But then when this came out and it showed electricity had nearly halved in the amount

283
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:52,400
of carbon it produces per kilowatt hour, it really changed the game and made electricity

284
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,640
a front runner and look at our electricity pumps.

285
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:57,640
Yes, it did.

286
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:03,440
It was almost like the best kept secret of the national grid.

287
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:12,800
It had been bubbling for a while where electricity was seen as a poor thing or a bad thing, I

288
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,040
guess in some way in the past.

289
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:21,040
But with the advancements from the UK grid and actually the grids from Europe as well,

290
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:28,600
it has performed quite sustainable and there's just change for encouragement to move away

291
00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,360
from fossil fuels into electricity where it goes through.

292
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:38,440
So it's probably going to cause its own issues because we'll all want to connect to electric

293
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,400
and we can't all connect to electric.

294
00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,960
So there's going to be a point when how do you grow the grid and how do you maintain

295
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:47,920
the grid and can you maintain that factor in the future because you're going to have

296
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:48,920
the renewables.

297
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:54,240
Can the renewables keep up to keep the value down as it expands?

298
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,800
Maybe two or three times the capacity of what's needed there.

299
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:03,720
But it really did change everything.

300
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,720
It changed as opposed to the technologies involved at the time would have been CHPs

301
00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:12,360
and because the electricity that they were offsetting against for performance of gas

302
00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:19,120
would be what was encouraged, but it's not so encouraged now, so it's changed into more

303
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:21,880
heat pump technology that's moved into.

304
00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:28,920
So it has really changed the landscape of sustainable assessment.

305
00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:35,240
Even from heat, like I know heat pumps have been the last big phase, craze the last couple

306
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:36,880
years in the energy industry.

307
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,520
But I think even now that's moving on.

308
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:43,800
I'm hearing a lot of talk about hydrogen and hydrogen boilers and all.

309
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,320
Yeah, there is.

310
00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:50,800
Each technology is great and each technology has its downside.

311
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:56,720
I have a personal theory that it takes about five years for people to think like what they

312
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,880
don't like about the technology and then try and move into something else.

313
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:07,320
So the hydrogen boilers is interesting because hydrogen boilers is very like a gas technology

314
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:12,760
and gas has the advantage of being able to switch on and off very quickly and re-enter

315
00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,720
things very, very quickly and operate at higher temperatures.

316
00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:22,480
There's always been a trouble of where you get the hydrogen from and that's always a

317
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:27,120
concern and the overall sustainability is slightly in question.

318
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:32,640
But if that was ever solved, then it is a very adaptable technology because you can

319
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,080
pack a lot of energy into something like hydrogen.

320
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:41,040
There's also maybe a perception that some people might think hydrogen is dangerous,

321
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,080
as opposed to the fat natural gas in their houses for a while.

322
00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:47,720
So hydrogen is a dangerous thing, but it's just another gas.

323
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,440
But yeah, I know that's an interesting thing.

324
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,600
Heat pumps are a very good technology.

325
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,840
They're quite clean, there's no emissions off it, they're easy to handle.

326
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:03,360
They might think at low temperatures, which is probably where its downside comes from.

327
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:07,000
It's harder to operate at higher temperatures if you need that service.

328
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:12,560
But they're all good to handle, they all work well with the handles.

329
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:16,920
It's interesting to see the change of how things move.

330
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:21,000
That's a really interesting point you made just there about perception.

331
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,600
I remember when I was doing my thesis and he did it on a renewable electricity grid

332
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,560
in Derry.

333
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:35,200
This was maybe in 2017, so not that long ago, or it doesn't feel that long ago, but it probably

334
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:36,200
is.

335
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:41,280
I was like, put the title and I did the thing where graduates do, they put the thesis title

336
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:46,680
on Facebook and I'll show everyone this is what I was working on, get all the likes.

337
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:53,520
Someone commented underneath it, they mentioned the RHI, or they mentioned about renewables,

338
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,120
and it was like, oh sure, that'll be a lot of good.

339
00:21:56,120 --> 00:22:02,560
I had negative connotations with it, and I was like, that's amazing to see that even

340
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:07,840
though the RHI scheme, which was years ago, people still view renewables, especially here

341
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,480
in Northern Ireland, like that as a bad thing.

342
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,280
They perceive it as like...

343
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:19,480
Yeah, I was a pity because it was actually quite a good scheme, I suppose, badly money.

344
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:20,480
Yeah, exactly.

345
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:26,920
In some way, there's that perception that can happen, but there's also an infrastructure

346
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:27,920
that backs it up.

347
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:36,200
For people to get the heat pumps, then they have to have a dwelling that's suitable, it's

348
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:41,800
well insulated, and they also need to have an electrical capacity that can take it, and

349
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,720
maybe the some of the local grid areas can't take that.

350
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:52,200
So there's a bit of a perception, some people don't like wind turbines on the landscape,

351
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:57,160
some people like wind turbines in the landscape, and you can see the perception that will probably

352
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,680
change and renewables will just be a thing that exists.

353
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:09,840
As it gets more common, it becomes something that people can accept, or you identify issues

354
00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:12,920
with renewables that can have connotations.

355
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:20,040
You pay some sort of title system and something that might affect the fish and the lettuce.

356
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,920
So that's the thing that can happen, but you can deal with it and you can get over it,

357
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,680
and it's the future that's happening with this mixture of renewables.

358
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:32,560
So I think people are probably more accepting now, especially as the cost of energy has

359
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:37,160
increased, and because the cost has increased, there's more of an awareness in people's minds

360
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:42,400
about it, and so saving energy is something that's forthcoming in people's minds, and

361
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,280
therefore they accept renewables a bit more, I think.

362
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:47,280
That's great.

363
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,040
When you talk about the cost of energy, I definitely want to focus on an episode where

364
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,560
we break down the price of electricity, just because that's the highest one.

365
00:23:55,560 --> 00:24:00,360
We'll suppose we'll do the price of all fuels, but just exactly what goes into it.

366
00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:03,880
But yeah, that'll be for a future episode.

367
00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,080
But you've been great to have us.

368
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,420
Thank you so much for answering all the questions.

369
00:24:09,420 --> 00:24:14,520
Just before we go, do you have any advice for future prospective energy assessors or

370
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,320
engineers who are looking to get into this particular sector?

371
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,000
Okay, I sort of called back to Naira on that.

372
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:25,740
The answer is that it's good to be curious.

373
00:24:25,740 --> 00:24:30,840
And so sometimes when you're starting out and you're just getting your foot in the door

374
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:35,680
of this and you're not quite sure how it's working, you may get some advice from people,

375
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:40,440
take the advice, but also make your own advice up.

376
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,800
Think about what you're doing and where you're going.

377
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:50,420
And as you discover things, try to learn why that happens and what the real life consequences

378
00:24:50,420 --> 00:24:51,420
of certain things are.

379
00:24:51,420 --> 00:24:56,760
So if someone tells you how to do a calculation, try and figure out why that calculation works,

380
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,720
because that will lead into something else.

381
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,800
And those calculations, they'll embed into your common sense and you can start making

382
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:04,800
reactions.

383
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:15,880
And something that's kind of doubled me and I was told when I was training is that sometimes

384
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:21,640
you may only have 20 minutes to make a decision on a project that can change its whole direction.

385
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,160
And you don't have time to work it all out, but you've got that 20 minutes and can you

386
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,040
make a difference in those 20 minutes?

387
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,760
And if you can, you could have such an influence on development.

388
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,640
And I think having that as your core.

389
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,760
So listen to what advice people give you, but question it as well.

390
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:49,400
And because you're in a fast evolving area of development and you can be the one that

391
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,560
actually makes that change.

392
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,080
Don't think because other people have done something for 20 or 30 years that that's the

393
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,080
way to do it.

394
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,480
You can make it, you can do it differently, you can do other things.

395
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:04,080
And so just have the confidence in yourself to make those changes and to see them.

396
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,720
So I think anyone starting out should have that ability.

397
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:12,440
And if you're not sure of why someone's asking to do something or why a calculation has to

398
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,600
be done a certain way, find out if you're on curiosity, because it just lets you see

399
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:18,600
it a bit more.

400
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:19,600
And that's how you develop.

401
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:20,600
That's really good to hear.

402
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:26,880
That actually is going to be similar to the advice I was going to give, which is not as

403
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,800
detailed and nicely phrased as your advice.

404
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:35,720
It's like when assessing carbon in a project, always check why it has carbon happening.

405
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:36,720
Because.

406
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:42,000
Yeah, again, like, you know, I like, you know, just like, you know, what we said was the

407
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,000
same thing.

408
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,000
I was like, no, it wasn't.

409
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:45,000
I'm just part of a series.

410
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,000
But again, thanks for being on.

411
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:49,960
OK, thank you.

412
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:50,960
And you'll definitely be back.

413
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,920
Thanks for listening to Carbon Climates.

414
00:26:54,920 --> 00:27:00,480
If you follow us on Instagram at carbon underscore climates, you will keep up to date with all

415
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,440
our latest releases of episodes and news.

416
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:04,440
OK, thanks for listening.

417
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:25,480
Bye.