1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:19,920 Hello, welcome and thanks for listening to Carbon Climates, an energy podcast dedicated 2 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,160 to discussing all things energy, carbon and sustainability. 3 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,480 We also want to point out what's getting hot, aside from our planet. 4 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:32,440 I'm your host Aine and today I'm joined with my carbon climate and co-host Ralph, who 5 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,840 I will be introducing shortly. 6 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:39,600 So before we get into today's topic, Ralph, how's your week been and can you tell us a 7 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:41,480 bit about yourself? 8 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:47,320 Hi, this week's been a bit mental as weeks normally tend to be for me. 9 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:53,320 I had lots of client meetings, lots of internal technology development meetings, which I'm 10 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,360 sure we'll talk about over the next however long. 11 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:57,360 Oh yeah. 12 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:02,760 But it's also my birthday this weekend, so I've been planning a few bits and pieces around 13 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:03,760 that. 14 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,320 So we're going to see the Barbie movie on Friday. 15 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:07,320 Very excited. 16 00:01:07,320 --> 00:01:08,320 Can't wait. 17 00:01:08,320 --> 00:01:11,240 Have to find something pink. 18 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,720 We pink shirt or like go as Ken like. 19 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:19,960 I don't have the physique, unfortunately, to pull off the Ryan Gosling vest on its own. 20 00:01:19,960 --> 00:01:24,000 All you need is a Primark shirt and shorts and sandals on your set. 21 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,320 Like yeah, it's really good. 22 00:01:25,320 --> 00:01:27,400 I went to see it a couple of weeks ago. 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,640 Yeah, that's good. 24 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:31,760 So what is your job title? 25 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:36,440 So I am a net zero applications engineer at Katagen. 26 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:42,580 That means that I as an engineer, I'm involved with both technology development of our net 27 00:01:42,580 --> 00:01:48,520 zero tech, but also I engage with stakeholders, which is a fancy word for people who don't 28 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:52,340 work for Katagen about what they need our technology to do. 29 00:01:52,340 --> 00:01:56,920 So how big does it need to be, how efficient does it need to be, what regulations, what 30 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,280 safety need to be fed into that design. 31 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:05,200 And I work with the R&D engineers to develop those systems that you wouldn't necessarily 32 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:08,160 think about when you're building a new technology. 33 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:09,160 Wow. 34 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,120 And so how long have you been in this sector? 35 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:18,480 So I have worked in sustainable energy for four to five years now. 36 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,000 I am what's called a recovering academic. 37 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:29,760 An academic who got very frustrated with the speed that technology and progress was being 38 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:34,200 made purely because of the way academia is and there's not anything wrong with it. 39 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:40,240 I wanted something that was a little bit more fast moving, a bit more practical in its application. 40 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:47,540 But I started my climate education off of my undergraduate at Queen's University as 41 00:02:47,540 --> 00:02:49,240 part of my chemical engineering course. 42 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,840 Which is what my masters is in. 43 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:58,720 And then progressed into a PhD also in chemical engineering, but more focused on hydrogen 44 00:02:58,720 --> 00:02:59,720 energy systems. 45 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:06,720 And then transitioned from that role into a postdoc where I was doing kind of education, 46 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,720 but also research in decentralized decarbonization activity. 47 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:16,800 And then moved to Katagen where I'm building the technology for those systems. 48 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:17,800 Wow. 49 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:18,800 That's amazing. 50 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:24,760 So, see, at school, did you ever envisage yourself in this sector? 51 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:33,880 So I'm probably quite a stereotypical boy in that STEM subjects were more my strength, 52 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:39,160 I would say, than things like languages and arts, which has changed as I've gotten older. 53 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:44,960 I don't have any aptitude for languages, but I love going to lots of places. 54 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,240 But at school, I focus mostly on chemistry and physics. 55 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:55,680 And that's probably where chemical engineering comes from, particularly physical chemistry, 56 00:03:55,680 --> 00:04:01,040 which is kind of thermodynamics, engines, the stuff that would more traditionally be 57 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,640 associated with mechanical engineering in some ways. 58 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:08,120 But I always had that aptitude that was definitely not biological science. 59 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,400 It was more kind of physical practical science at school. 60 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:17,360 And that was where my decision to go to university to do an engineering degree came from. 61 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:21,360 And the decision was between mechanical and chemical for me. 62 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:29,520 And I felt chemical was a broader qualification because you have lots of different industries 63 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:30,520 that you can get into. 64 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,040 And that is the same for mechanical engineering. 65 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:37,360 But I felt that the specific sector suited me and my strengths a bit better. 66 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,880 Plus I also thought chemistry, I was quite good at it at school. 67 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:45,160 And then I did it at university and realised I am average at it. 68 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:46,160 That's always the way. 69 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,600 You're like, oh no, I've peaked. 70 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:49,600 Yeah. 71 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,680 Chemistry at university is very different than chemistry at school. 72 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:58,280 And I think I realised after my degree, it's because there's lots of chemical engineering 73 00:04:58,280 --> 00:04:59,880 in chemistry at school. 74 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,920 We just don't call it that because it's easier to call it chemistry. 75 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:03,920 OK. 76 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:04,920 All right. 77 00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:05,920 OK. 78 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:06,920 Brilliant. 79 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:07,920 Thanks, Ralph. 80 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:15,360 So you've probably guessed from Ralph's explanation, today's topic is the focus of hydrogen. 81 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:23,080 So Ralph, before we start discussing all the basics, I've got a joke for you. 82 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:26,600 What do you call the number one secret service element? 83 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,120 I don't know. 84 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:30,120 Bond? 85 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:31,120 Hydrogen bond? 86 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,120 You can keep that, you can tell your friends. 87 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:35,120 Maybe it was not shared. 88 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:36,120 Yeah. 89 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:37,120 OK. 90 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,080 I'm going to come ricochet right back. 91 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:40,080 OK. 92 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:41,080 Brilliant. 93 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:42,080 But yeah. 94 00:05:42,080 --> 00:05:43,080 OK. 95 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,080 OK. 96 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:45,080 Enough fun. 97 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,800 Today's topic is discussing hydrogen fuel. 98 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:52,760 So hydrogen is the number one element in the periodic table and can be used as a fuel like 99 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:53,760 electricity. 100 00:05:53,760 --> 00:06:01,080 There are many different ways to create hydrogen from fossil fuels with the steam methane reforming, 101 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,800 which is when methane is heated to a certain temperature and that is able to be broken 102 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:11,160 down and hydrogen is able to be extracted from that and also from water. 103 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:17,080 There's methods like electrolysis, which electricity is used to split hydrogen and oxygen atoms. 104 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:22,320 Hydrogen also has many uses, such as fuel cells in which hydrogen is generated into 105 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:28,400 electricity and also used as a fuel and can also be used as a fuel in internal combustion 106 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:34,360 engines or motor engines like the ones of like loads of transport systems. 107 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,160 I don't know if I can say their name, like transport industries. 108 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:42,320 So yeah, there's lots of public transport sectors, particularly in Belfast and... 109 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:43,320 Yeah, OK. 110 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:44,320 That's good. 111 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,440 ...that use hydrogen and are trialing them at the minute. 112 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,440 You will have seen them around. 113 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,720 You may not have heard them though, because they're very quiet. 114 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:52,720 That is... 115 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:53,720 Oh, I like that. 116 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:54,720 That's really good. 117 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:55,720 I like that. 118 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,920 That's a really good sentence. 119 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:05,080 So in December 2021, Northern Ireland raised its first NI energy strategy, which centered 120 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:10,480 around the creation of a hydrogen economy in order to make the 2030 and 2050 targets 121 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,360 in Northern Ireland. 122 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,120 And from your description earlier, Ralph, I believe your company is at the forefront 123 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:17,520 of that. 124 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:22,640 So I want to talk a bit more about KAD-A-GEN and just exactly what it does. 125 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:26,600 Can you describe a typical day for you? 126 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,120 Typical day for me, a very boring answer is there's no typical day for me. 127 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:38,320 But most of my day is spent developing around our technology. 128 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,400 So at the minute, I'm working really closely on one of our technologies with the rest of 129 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,160 the R&D engineers. 130 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:51,480 My main role is looking at things like business models, commercialization plans, sensitivity 131 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:57,960 analysis around costs and prices and margins and all of the fun things that most engineers 132 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,600 don't like to do. 133 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:05,720 And how that's presented is in things called feasibility studies. 134 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:12,620 So these are really important aspects of new technology where you take empirical data or 135 00:08:12,620 --> 00:08:14,760 measured data from smaller scale experiments. 136 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:19,640 And when I say smaller, because some of the stuff we're doing is in the freight container, 137 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:24,080 so it's not small, and apply that to a much larger system. 138 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,920 So for instance, we might look at something like a power station. 139 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:33,800 And obviously we can't build technology at the same scale as a power station at the moment, 140 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:40,240 but our technology can solve some of the carbon related issues around energy generation. 141 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:46,760 So I take the information from our pilot projects and apply that to a larger scale and using 142 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:52,520 a lot of my engineering toolkit, so it's not just, that's 20 times bigger, so it's 20 times 143 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,360 that. 144 00:08:54,360 --> 00:09:01,800 I will work out with a best engineering guess what's a feasible system. 145 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,960 That can be everything from technically, will it work? 146 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:06,880 Will it do the job it needs to do? 147 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,840 All the way through to how big is that going to be? 148 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:11,480 How much is it going to cost to run? 149 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,920 How many people is it going to be needed to maintain it and operate it? 150 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:19,880 And that then feeds into something called a pre-feed study, which is a technical piece 151 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:25,940 of work that an engineering team will actually produce for delivery of a project. 152 00:09:25,940 --> 00:09:33,800 So I exist in the space between kind of nebulous innovation and real tangible projects that 153 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,200 exist in the real world, which is a really exciting place to be. 154 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,000 But it means when you turn up for work in the morning, you don't know what you're going 155 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,000 to be doing. 156 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:41,000 Oh, I see. 157 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:42,000 Okay. 158 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,800 So you always have to expect the unexpected with your role. 159 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:49,760 Yeah, I think it's a role that's naturally very suitable to some engineering qualities 160 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:54,600 because you have to be flexible and adaptable, but you also have to be competent, accurate 161 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,360 and reliable in what you do. 162 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,920 And as you go through most engineering degrees, you learn how to solve problems. 163 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:07,200 That's the basic definition of an engineer, someone who solves problems usually for money. 164 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:08,200 Okay. 165 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:13,960 And that mindset is a really valuable thing whenever you try to apply technology to a 166 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:20,080 new problem, because you will see ways that it can be used that maybe more conventional 167 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,600 or people more close to the process can't see. 168 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:29,220 A lot of the work we do is with big energy users who view themselves as making products. 169 00:10:29,220 --> 00:10:36,800 So cement, petrochemicals, glass is another good example, but we don't view what they 170 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:38,960 do as product led. 171 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:44,300 We see an energy system and one of the products is the thing that they sell. 172 00:10:44,300 --> 00:10:48,120 So we're able to approach the problem from a different angle and integrate technology 173 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,160 solutions that they wouldn't necessarily think of because they're focused on what makes them 174 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,680 money and what makes them sustainable. 175 00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:57,480 Oh, pretty good. 176 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,540 That sounds pretty extensive, I have to say. 177 00:11:00,540 --> 00:11:05,720 Was there any sort of training you did to enter this role or what kind of craft did 178 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:07,440 you do when you first started? 179 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:12,440 So the prep started for me in my undergraduate degree. 180 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:18,280 I was able to specialize in carbon and climate as part of my engineering degree. 181 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:23,240 And that's quite common across lots of third level institutes in your final year, you'll 182 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,620 be given the opportunity to flavor your degree to your desired field. 183 00:11:27,620 --> 00:11:31,920 So some of my colleagues ended up doing pharmaceuticals. 184 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:36,520 So they manufacture drugs that save millions of lives around the planet, which is fantastic. 185 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:38,480 I was never going to be able to do that. 186 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:43,280 So it was pointless, us both doing the same education because it's not setting us up for 187 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,680 success as we move out into the real world. 188 00:11:46,680 --> 00:11:51,940 That's where that started and the interest in sustainability and balancing energy networks 189 00:11:51,940 --> 00:11:52,940 came through there. 190 00:11:52,940 --> 00:11:59,000 And I was able to very luckily do a PhD in that, which allowed me to spend lots of time 191 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:04,600 researching lots of things and finding out lots of information, whether it was all useful. 192 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:06,240 That's up for debate. 193 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:11,800 But it allowed me to have a really deep understanding of energy networks and systems. 194 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:17,640 But it also allowed me to hone what we call multidisciplinary learning or lateral thinking 195 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:22,080 is what some people would call it, where you're able to take skills or knowledge or understanding 196 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,200 of say economics and apply it to a non economic topic. 197 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:32,200 But I was able to do that with different energy and material streams across Northern Ireland 198 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:38,720 as an example, and look at how wastewater, population and electricity usage all interact 199 00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,080 in a nexus with each other. 200 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:45,600 And you can start to overlap, always understand things and find places where you can start 201 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,040 to do some really cool things with what people perceive to be a problem. 202 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:57,600 That's actually to use the adage of in Chinese, the problem and opportunity are the same word. 203 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:04,320 It's usually one industry or one areas problem is a solution or an opportunity for someone 204 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:05,920 else to come in and fix it. 205 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,680 And bio waste is a great example. 206 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:12,520 In Northern Ireland, the number one crop we grow is grass. 207 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:14,760 And it's seen as an issue. 208 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,480 How we fix it is we turn it into silage, which is used to fertilize plants. 209 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:23,920 And there's lots of issues around fertilizer, over-neter application of soils, phosphorus 210 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:24,920 retention. 211 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:26,720 And we're not getting into that today. 212 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,880 That's a different episode in itself. 213 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:38,840 My time and my PhD allowed me to learn how to interrogate subjects by learning from across 214 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,920 different areas, which is what you do as an engineer, particularly when you work in a 215 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,720 company that develops technology. 216 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:46,720 Well, very interesting. 217 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,160 That's Ralph. 218 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:50,640 Okay. 219 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,440 It's time for a quiz round. 220 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:58,840 Each week I do a quiz round and I tailor it towards the specific subject by giving it 221 00:13:58,840 --> 00:13:59,840 a name. 222 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,640 So this week it's the hydrogen round. 223 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:06,800 I think when it's typed out, it'll look a lot nicer. 224 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:12,240 Like when I typed it, I was like, this is genius, but is he actually saying it? 225 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:13,240 I don't know. 226 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:17,560 But yeah, this is where I give you some facts and we discuss some more. 227 00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:21,120 So how many different types of hydrogen are there? 228 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:25,880 So we talk about there being a rainbow of hydrogen. 229 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,920 Hydrogen gets assigned colours and the most common ones that get talked about in order 230 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:36,440 of sustainability are grey or black hydrogen, which comes from fossil fuels, blue hydrogen, 231 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:42,760 which is the same as black hydrogen, but with the carbon captured and stored sustainably 232 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:47,880 and green hydrogen, which is produced from renewable electricity and water. 233 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,760 So it has no carbon associated in the production of that molecule of hydrogen from start to 234 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:53,760 finish. 235 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:54,760 That's brilliant. 236 00:14:54,760 --> 00:15:00,020 And for a catagen, which do you work particularly with the specific type of hydrogen? 237 00:15:00,020 --> 00:15:07,400 So we are developing technology we call HGEN, which is a way to make green hydrogen from 238 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,640 renewable electricity and water. 239 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:14,040 But we don't use electrochemistry to do that, which is what electrolysis is. 240 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,640 And it's the most common way that that's done at the moment. 241 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,640 We use a thermochemical cycle. 242 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:28,200 So that uses more traditional catalyst chemical reactions to create hydrogen and oxygen from 243 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:29,200 water. 244 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:30,640 But it's not a single step. 245 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,920 There's three stages in that process. 246 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:39,880 But because it uses heat as a driver, whenever you get to really heavy industry, high heat 247 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:45,280 energy users, there's a lot of benefit from having another process that can use that heat 248 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,000 and manipulate that heat flow across the two processes. 249 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:53,640 And it scales in the same way because it uses the same base chemistry. 250 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,320 We're developing that as a way to generate hydrogen. 251 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,520 We also have a second way because we never do one thing. 252 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,840 We always do loads of things. 253 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:08,900 This is probably closer to what's called an orange hydrogen. 254 00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:16,720 So we have developed a technology that breaks down biomasses into hydrogen and CO2. 255 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,800 For those of you that are more familiar with that, they may go, well, what's the difference 256 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,840 between that and grey hydrogen because you're still making CO2. 257 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:28,880 But the use of biomass that isn't competitive with food production, which is what our technology 258 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:34,080 is designed to be used with, means that the CO2 that's produced comes from the fast carbon 259 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,320 cycle, which means it's captured from the air by plants and then it's released back 260 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,520 into the air whenever you break the material down. 261 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,200 So it's a much lower carbon intensity way to get hydrogen. 262 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:47,280 Most importantly, it uses significantly less renewable electricity. 263 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:52,320 So we are quite lucky in Ireland and Europe that we have lots of renewables that we're 264 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:53,320 trying to get onto the grid. 265 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:59,560 But in places like Africa, South America, South East Asia, there's huge amounts of energy 266 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:00,560 poverty. 267 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:04,640 So if you can produce a solution that gives you more sustainable energy with much less 268 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:10,600 renewable electricity input, it's much more applicable in areas like that around the world. 269 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:15,400 So we see lots of different solutions coming for lots of different areas of the world with 270 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:16,400 our technology. 271 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:20,760 And that extends even to the biomass types that will go into the system. 272 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,000 And that's one of the things that we're very keen to do. 273 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,500 As a company, we see ourselves as solving problems using engineering. 274 00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:30,880 So we're not just a clean tech company. 275 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:32,800 We are actually a solutions company. 276 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:40,720 Okay, well, I said this was a quiz round, but you ended up like, wow, like I feel like, 277 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,040 you know, like I've definitely learned something. 278 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,640 Okay, well, like answer my second question. 279 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,320 Do you know what hydrogen means? 280 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:51,960 Hydrogen is in the actual word. 281 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:52,960 Yes. 282 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,320 And I feel like you already know the answer. 283 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,320 Actually, so a lot of my PhD was focused on ammonia. 284 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:03,680 I do know about the entomological route of the word ammonia, which comes from the Ammon 285 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:04,680 Temple in Egypt. 286 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,680 I don't know where hydrogen comes from. 287 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:08,680 Okay. 288 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:14,760 Well, I don't think it's as like as deep as what you said about ammonia, because that 289 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,880 sounds like a proper description. 290 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:21,120 This is one I think I just got off Google in two seconds. 291 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:25,400 But hydrogen means creator gen of water. 292 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:26,400 Hydro. 293 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,520 And you're just like, really? 294 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,920 That was the question. 295 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,360 Probably the reason why it's called that. 296 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:41,360 So whenever hydrogen, you can't see me air coating, air coating was first discovered, 297 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:44,320 they didn't think it was a separate gas in its own. 298 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:49,800 What happened was some crazy scientists in the 18th century put electricity into a big 299 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,360 bath of water with a copper plate in the middle of it and noticed there was a whole bunch 300 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:54,680 of bubbles formed. 301 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:55,680 Oh. 302 00:18:55,680 --> 00:19:00,560 So they called that a gas battery because they realized they were able to conduct electricity 303 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:01,560 across the water. 304 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,680 Hydrogen and oxygen are the two things that come out of that because they had actually 305 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:10,440 invented electrolysis, but they didn't know that it was called, they didn't know it was 306 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:11,720 two separate gases. 307 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:17,140 So they called the gas that came out of it hydrogenous gas because it comes from hydrogenation 308 00:19:17,140 --> 00:19:18,480 of water. 309 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,160 So that might be where it's come from. 310 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:21,160 Oh, wow. 311 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:22,160 Okay. 312 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:23,160 Yeah. 313 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,480 It's it's reverse thought to me. 314 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:32,200 Hydrogen as a substance is not something that we as a species knew about for quite a long 315 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,200 time. 316 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:39,040 It's only really helium as an element that was discovered later, kind of the lighter 317 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,240 end of the periodic table. 318 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:45,640 That's because hydrogen doesn't exist naturally on Earth. 319 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,160 It's so light, it just accelerates right up like an atmosphere into space. 320 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,640 So it's very difficult to find any of it naturally on the planet. 321 00:19:52,640 --> 00:20:00,600 And where we find it, mapping like in Vince Steenformant mentioned earlier. 322 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:01,600 That's really brilliant. 323 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,500 Okay, so on to our next section. 324 00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:06,280 That's the end of the hydrogen section. 325 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:10,040 We're now on to the big discuss issues. 326 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:11,280 Okay. 327 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:17,600 So according to my search bar, according to my search function in my PDF year, when I 328 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:23,640 was looking at the NI Energy Strategy, hydrogen appears 20 times throughout the document. 329 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:28,520 So what are your thoughts on the mention of hydrogen in the NI Energy Strategy released 330 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,000 in December 2021? 331 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,160 So firstly, it was great to have an energy strategy. 332 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:40,000 It's something that people like hydrogen have been calling for for a long time. 333 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,840 Northern Ireland, through lots of different reasons, was slightly behind the rest of the 334 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,120 UK in releasing them. 335 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:51,560 What we were ahead of the Republic of Ireland when we released their strategy last week. 336 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:56,760 So that's a big tick for us because we're still ahead of the curve. 337 00:20:56,760 --> 00:21:00,040 Northern Ireland as a whole is an importer of energy. 338 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:06,520 And that means that we need to find ways to be more energy secure. 339 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:14,880 One of the ways traditionally energy security is enabled is to extract hydrocarbons, fossil 340 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,960 fuels inside your geographic region. 341 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,160 So fracking essentially is the only thing that's available to us. 342 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:24,920 And there's lots of issues with fracking and we're not getting into that either because 343 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:25,920 that's a whole topic. 344 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:31,120 I can make if we did a podcast episode, it needs to be puns with it. 345 00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:32,120 What's the frack? 346 00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:33,120 What the frack? 347 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:34,120 Yeah, yeah. 348 00:21:34,120 --> 00:21:38,360 The other way you can do that is by building lots and lots of renewable energy generation. 349 00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:45,040 And we are blessed to have lots of wind and lots of rain in Northern Ireland and we have 350 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:50,400 about six or seven gigawatts of potential offshore wind, which would supply most of 351 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,280 our electricity demand if we could access it. 352 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:58,080 So having a strategy that allows us to start to deal with that is really important. 353 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:04,200 And hydrogen is a really important tool because funnily enough, we don't use much energy when 354 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:05,200 we're asleep. 355 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:11,000 And it tends to be that most wind blows at night in Northern Ireland. 356 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:16,360 So we have this wonderful resource that we can't use during the night and lots of people 357 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:18,640 use energy during the day when there's less wind. 358 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,640 So we need something that bridges that gap and allows us to store that energy, capture 359 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,200 it and use it. 360 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,960 And everybody goes, right, well, why don't we just make loads of batteries? 361 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:29,960 Batteries are great at some things. 362 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:35,680 They're not particularly energy dense and we can't actually transmit electricity onto 363 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,120 our grid network at the minute. 364 00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:39,160 It's fully at capacity. 365 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,480 It's like the M1 going on on a one day at Path 5. 366 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,000 It is just full, can't accommodate any more electricity. 367 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:52,280 So we need something that can use that electricity where it's generated at a wind farm and turn 368 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:53,840 it into something that's not electricity. 369 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,080 And hydrogen is a really good use for that. 370 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,600 OK, well, yeah, very good. 371 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:08,400 OK, well, also, the energy strategy talked about the need to start the hydrogen catapult 372 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:15,240 linked with academia and linked with academia and they just get more skills out there for 373 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,880 people like learn how to be in the hydrogen industry. 374 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,080 There was the hydrogen academy that started last year. 375 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,800 I think there was a February 2022 news article about it. 376 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:32,760 But like, have you guys had any interlinks with that? 377 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,160 So I actually am technically a graduate from hydrogen academy. 378 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:43,800 So I have done my grade five hydrogen education thing and that was partly through University 379 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:44,800 of Birmingham. 380 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,640 We have actually a large number of expertise in this field and I've been working very closely 381 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:55,280 with the likes of Queen's, University of Ulster and Belfast Met to bring those skills across 382 00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:04,760 to Northern Ireland because we have essentially the goldilocks of hydrogen tests bedding in 383 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:05,760 Europe. 384 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,600 So we've got lots of renewable electricity. 385 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,600 We've got urban and rural populations. 386 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,280 We've got high dependency on imported fossil fuels. 387 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:20,040 So a lot of our academics, a lot of our industry has realised that one, we need to change something 388 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:27,600 and two, we've got a real opportunity to lead the rest of the world in this space and knowledge. 389 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,920 And part of that is the hydrogen catapult. 390 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:31,920 Terrible name. 391 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,360 We shouldn't be flinging hydrogen anywhere. 392 00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:41,680 But the idea is that it accelerates us into the distance in terms of hydrogen technology 393 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:47,160 and Catagen are one of only three companies in the world that can make e-fuels, which 394 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:55,000 are carbon net zero hydrocarbons made from green hydrogen and CO2 captured from the air. 395 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,640 And we are also developing alternatives to other technologies that make hydrogen, which 396 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,760 are going to be important for specific applications. 397 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,960 We are an and not or company. 398 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:09,800 We see everybody in our society as having a role to play. 399 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:15,160 And for many of us, we will probably never think or interact with hydrogen directly. 400 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:20,360 But it's an important understanding because public perception of hydrogen. 401 00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:25,880 And this is maybe a little bit before most people's times is mostly rooted in the Hindenburg 402 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,440 or if you've seen Oppenheimer, the hydrogen bomb. 403 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:35,000 So a lot of people, when they think of hydrogen, think of lots of energy, explosions, fire 404 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,720 and lots of death. 405 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,360 That is one of the things that it's very good at, which is releasing lots of energy very 406 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:46,040 quickly, but there are also lots of other things that can do just as much damage and 407 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,320 be just as volatile. 408 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:53,760 And it's becoming aware of how to handle it and store it, process it properly and be 409 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:59,320 able to deliver technologies that do that safely that we're trying to learn. 410 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,320 People like Ulster University have had the High Safe Program, which is a research group 411 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:09,880 that is totally dedicated to looking at hydrogen safety, both in use and generation for a decade 412 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:10,960 now. 413 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:17,960 So in this space, we are actually a leader, a thought leader in probably the world, definitely 414 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:18,960 Europe. 415 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:22,120 And that's reflected in the expertise. 416 00:26:22,120 --> 00:26:28,680 So having that enshrined as part of the NI strategy is really going to accelerate the 417 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:35,000 links between academia, funding bodies, the general public and industry tech developers 418 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:41,640 like ourselves to be able to promote this entire region as a base knowledge of hydrogen 419 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:46,280 energy, which is going to be really important in the next two to three decades to help us 420 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,400 aggressively decarbonize lots of really big polluters around the world. 421 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:51,400 Wow. 422 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:55,440 So it's like a really great thing, the launch of this hydrogen training academy in Northern 423 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:56,440 Ireland. 424 00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:01,280 It's at the Northern Regional College, but as you said, I think it's credited for being 425 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,240 taught through the University of Birmingham. 426 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:10,160 Well, the first minister of economy, minister of economy at the time, I think he still is, 427 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,160 Gordon Lyons. 428 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:12,160 Yeah. 429 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:18,920 Says the economy will fully maximize opportunities associated with hydrogen as the emerging leading 430 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,080 sustainable energy solution. 431 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:24,000 Just a summary of what you've actually said as well. 432 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,520 Leading is probably up for debate. 433 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,680 I think most people would accept that hydrogen is going to play a really important role. 434 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,520 It is not, and I don't like this term, but everybody uses it. 435 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:36,520 It's not a silver bullet. 436 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,000 It's not going to solve all the world's problems. 437 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:43,360 Just like the internet didn't, just like electric cars didn't. 438 00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:48,760 But hydrogen, particularly for areas that depend on liquid fuels and don't have big 439 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,760 gas networks and lots of really densely populated areas is going to be really important for 440 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,320 us to move energy around to where it's needed. 441 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:57,320 Okay. 442 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:58,320 Wow. 443 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,400 Well here, you'd have words of Gordon Lyons, but I'm like, you know, Tom, here, take back 444 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,720 what you said about the ship. 445 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:04,720 I'm Gordon. 446 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:05,720 I'm sure you know how to stop. 447 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:06,720 Do you know him? 448 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:07,720 Oh, very good. 449 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:08,720 Yeah. 450 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,560 You always try and go to events and like you always see them there. 451 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:17,880 And so it's funny, but the ones in the, in certain departments, they, after they speak 452 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,600 at certain energy seminars or events, they always seem to run off afterwards. 453 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,640 I think it's just so I can't, I want to ask you a question. 454 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:26,640 Answer me. 455 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:28,960 Yeah, that's a, that's a political decision. 456 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:34,800 They only stay around generally if they're announcing something positive, which is great. 457 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:41,080 But having, being able to talk to politicians is really important too, because they're really 458 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,720 important drivers of change. 459 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,400 Right or wrongly and engaging with everybody in the community is really important to us 460 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:57,360 because as a company, we have core values that we don't want an energy transition that 461 00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:58,560 leaves people behind. 462 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,120 So we talk about the just transition a lot and it's come up a lot kind of in national 463 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,920 media recently. 464 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,880 Our technology is designed to be suitable for lots of different applications. 465 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:14,840 And the reason for that is we're seeing people who live in really rural environments, they 466 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:20,960 have poor electricity access or really reliant on diesels and kerosene for heating their 467 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:26,760 homes and powering equipment or farm equipment are being left behind and shouldering the 468 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,640 burden of carbon taxation. 469 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:32,740 But they actually live in the places where all of the renewable energy is generated. 470 00:29:32,740 --> 00:29:41,040 So you have this agricultural area with high wind potential that's being aggressively decarbonized 471 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:42,040 in a negative way. 472 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:47,040 But actually, if you can harness that natural resources they already have there with new 473 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:51,740 technology that allows them to create net zero versions of the fuels they already use, 474 00:29:51,740 --> 00:29:53,560 you can bring everybody on that journey. 475 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:59,160 And it's just a much more sustainable way of changing our energy system that doesn't 476 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:00,160 make people like. 477 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:01,160 Wow. 478 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:07,760 Well, can I just say, like, you've been absolutely brilliant to have on. 479 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,880 So I'm going to wind down. 480 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:11,560 Actually I've got two more questions for you. 481 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,640 Can't even read my own script. 482 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:14,640 Apologies. 483 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,200 So what do you enjoy most about your work? 484 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,040 I enjoy working with people. 485 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,200 So I didn't realize I did until I actually left my university degree. 486 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,960 But I do enjoy working in a team. 487 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:35,000 I really enjoy the process of what we call collaborative innovation. 488 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:41,760 And that's where I might come to you with a problem and you might go, I think this is 489 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:42,760 how we solve that problem. 490 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:48,160 And we bring it to our mate out of the room and go, this is a problem. 491 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:49,160 We've got the solution. 492 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,600 We'll go, that's really good, but have you thought about this? 493 00:30:52,600 --> 00:31:00,040 And there is almost like a momentum that builds in the group of trying to solve issues and 494 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:01,040 problems. 495 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:06,160 And I'm really fortunate to work with some fantastically wired brains that are completely 496 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,320 different from my own. 497 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:13,120 But part of that is we have a culture of cat and gin that encourages challenge and encourages 498 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,960 making mistakes where appropriate. 499 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,760 And it means that people feel empowered to say, I think this can be done better. 500 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,320 I think we're missing something here. 501 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,920 And turning up every day and knowing that the likelihood someone comes to me and goes, 502 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:32,280 the other way we're dealing with this, have we thought about doing this? 503 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:38,200 Is just really cool because you go away every day having either learned something new about 504 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:43,400 something you didn't know, or you're really excited about what we're doing. 505 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:49,080 And I think for most of us, at Catagen, that's what we love is we're fixing a really, really 506 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:52,160 important problem in part. 507 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:58,160 But we're doing it as a group of people who are really motivated to stop the climate emergency. 508 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,440 We're not doing it because it's going to make money. 509 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,160 We're doing it because it will clean and decarbonize the air. 510 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,880 And that's actually our purpose as a company. 511 00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:07,160 And that's how we hire people. 512 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,800 We hire them if they have a shared purpose with us, not just because they're brilliant 513 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,440 engineers or they're fantastic at a spreadsheet. 514 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,360 Wow, that's great to hear. 515 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:24,200 So any prospective engineers who want to get into the hydrogen industry, they should look 516 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:25,200 at Catagen. 517 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,200 Yeah. 518 00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:27,200 Yeah. 519 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:31,560 So we're going through a really, really cool growth period of the month where we're bringing 520 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:33,560 lots of people on. 521 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:39,480 We're hiring people across mechanical, chemical, electrical, software, civil engineering, but 522 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,240 not just engineering. 523 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:42,980 We have accountants coming in. 524 00:32:42,980 --> 00:32:45,480 We have people with geography degrees. 525 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,160 We have people with politics degrees coming in. 526 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:55,280 And they're supporting things like project delivery, health and safety, assessment of 527 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:56,920 sites for activities. 528 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:02,080 And then we've also got the kind of more normal, boring office work. 529 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,080 Yeah. 530 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,080 I'll not insult any of my colleagues about admin procurement. 531 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:13,880 Building builds and materials for projects, getting make sure everybody gets paid. 532 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:19,200 So we have such a varied workforce and such a varied experience that I think it adds to 533 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:20,200 us as a strength. 534 00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,640 And we deliberately go after that different worldview and different experience. 535 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:30,280 So even if you don't necessarily think you can have a job that's in net zero tech, because 536 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:34,240 I have a degree in accountancy, that's not what it's about. 537 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:39,520 It's about having skills that are transferable and want to do something to change. 538 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:40,520 That's really great to hear. 539 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:46,200 I'll post a link to the Catagen website and your email address and your Facebook page. 540 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:47,200 Maybe LinkedIn. 541 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:48,200 Yeah, LinkedIn. 542 00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,640 I know no one uses Facebook anymore. 543 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:55,520 Like I don't need Messenger. 544 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:56,520 Okay. 545 00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:01,180 Well, that pretty much sums up the podcast episode of Hydrogen. 546 00:34:01,180 --> 00:34:06,560 So before we go, do you have any advice for future graduates looking to get into the energy 547 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,560 hydrogen industry? 548 00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:09,560 Yeah. 549 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:14,800 Learn as much as you can and read and listen to things like this. 550 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:20,880 But the big change in my outlook on why I now have a job like this was I didn't just 551 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:24,460 do what I thought was the best thing to do. 552 00:34:24,460 --> 00:34:32,360 So after my degree finished, I was looking for jobs and I was looking in the Republic 553 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,040 of Ireland, Northern Ireland, the UK and the rest of Europe. 554 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:40,440 I was looking at petrochemical jobs, pharmaceutical jobs, energy jobs that would be very traditional 555 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,040 for chemical engineers to go into. 556 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:47,500 And I had a couple of successful interviews, I had a couple of job offers and about six 557 00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:53,200 months after I left, I realized that it's not what I wanted to do. 558 00:34:53,200 --> 00:35:00,120 I wanted to work somewhere and do something that I was one excited to go to work about 559 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,960 because I am an inherently lazy person and need to be motivated to do anything. 560 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:10,520 But I could see such a problem with the climate emergency and just for reference, this is 561 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,040 maybe nearly 10 years ago now, I finished my degree. 562 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:20,960 You can see such an issue in this space, particularly with my education at Queen's, that something 563 00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:22,000 just had to be done. 564 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,640 So I was like, I need to go and find a role that allows me to try and help solve this 565 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:27,640 issue. 566 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:28,640 Yeah. 567 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:35,520 If you're passionate about conservation, biodiversity, climate change, new renewable 568 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:44,880 technology, there is such a glut of not just skills, but effort that's needed from people. 569 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:50,440 That if that's something you want to do, just the best thing to do is to reach out to people 570 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:56,760 because most people here in this space are in it because they want to make a difference. 571 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:00,760 They are more than happy to have you help them. 572 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:05,560 That was really beautiful and really nice and really heartfelt. 573 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:12,200 My piece of advice, which sounds rubbish now, but my advice is say hi to the hydrogen industry. 574 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,360 That is true as well. 575 00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:21,000 I tend to go big blue sky, I'm a blue sky thinker, but there are very practical things 576 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,160 you can do. 577 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:28,200 If you want a STEM degree, you need to have things like mathematics, a science in your 578 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,520 A levels or your S levels. 579 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:36,240 Interestingly, you don't need chemistry to be a chemical engineer at most universities, 580 00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:43,000 but to be in the climate space, you have to be an active participant and an active contributor. 581 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:49,240 So get out to protests, get out to watts, get out into your local community and help 582 00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:54,640 make a difference because that's the attitude that will do you well in the industry. 583 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,640 Okay, wow, brilliant. 584 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,880 Okay, well that wraps up our episode. 585 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:02,920 Thank you very much, Ralph, for coming on the show. 586 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,480 Definitely, I'll definitely have you back. 587 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:10,160 You're so full of knowledge, definitely need to discuss more. 588 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,400 But yes, thank you for listening to Carbon Climates. 589 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:19,520 If you'd like to follow us, our Instagram is at carbon underscore climates and I'll 590 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,240 keep you up to date with all our latest episode releases. 591 00:37:22,240 --> 00:37:27,040 I'll also be posting links to all the articles and information we talked about in today's 592 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,720 episode if you're interested. 593 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:29,920 Okay, thanks. 594 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:40,600 See you next time.