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Hello and welcome and thanks for listening to Carbon Climates, an energy podcast dedicated

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to discussing all things energy, carbon and sustainability. We also point out what's getting

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hot besides from our planet. Do you like that? I'm your host Aine and today I'm joined by

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my Carbon Climate and co-host Mark who I'll be introducing shortly. Well Mark before we get

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into today's topic, how's your week been and can you tell us a bit about yourself? Yeah,

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pretty good. I'm busy enough. Yeah, not much. So could you tell us a bit about yourself,

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so what's your job title? I'm a sustainability engineer and mainly handle like 3M assessments

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and I do some life cycle assessments as well for body carbon. Okay, brilliant. How long have you

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been in this sector? Almost two years, so not very long at all. Two of the best years of your life.

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Of course, of course. Absolutely. Yeah, it's been really good though. It's been really good. And

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one of the reasons I'm gonna ask you a question, but one of the reasons I wanted to start this

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podcast is because I don't think enough marketing or awareness of jobs in the energy sector is done.

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So CSGO, did you ever envisage yourself in a role like this? No, to be honest I probably wasn't

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quite sure what a role like this was about when I was in school, but to be honest no. I was very

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much in school. I picked something I liked and then moved from there and do this, then do this.

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Because of like for instance with geography, so I just kept picking that and then ended up doing

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it at uni. Didn't know what CS you do in uni, you kind of like learn loads of different subjects,

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more like for instance I did Geography and Environmental Science in Dundee, so like a

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joint course. So you end up doing a lot about like sustainability stuff as well as kinds of

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physical and human geography as well. So it's kind of branched us out a bit. Okay, very geography,

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heavy background. Do you think, has that come in handy with your current role with

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BREAM assessments? I think because geography is a weird kind of social science, which is itself

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very broad and you kind of go across like a range of subjects, for instance like human and physical

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geography. But then BREAM, because it's as an assessment, it's like spread very much across

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the different aspects of a building. For instance you do about water efficiency and you also learn

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about energy items and then but also kind of addresses things like transport for a building,

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like how accessible it is for the new built to get and kind of also includes ecology. So it's

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big broad kind of range, so it does lean in, lean itself to geography background I believe.

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That's really great to hear because you know I know a lot of people who maybe study geography

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at uni and I know some who they go in so many different fields and career paths that aren't

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geography. I think my sister's partner, he studied geography at uni and now he's an accountant. So

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it's just like it shows you like you know geography is one of those areas that I could lead you

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anywhere but it definitely like as you said like it definitely helps this role. So you said what

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was it, what are the type of assessments you do again? So I'd call BREAM assessments. BREAM

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assessments, that brings us onto today's topic which is going to be BREAM and the world of

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entry accreditation in construction. Yeah I was trying to make it like you know cool and breezy,

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so you kind of do a lead in like you know okay okay just work with me here okay. Yeah sorry.

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Okay can you tell me what BREAM stands for? It's the building regulation establishment education

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assessment method. Yeah it's a my full depth. It is my full and then obviously it's BREAM and

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a lot of people call it BREAM like the fish so it's easier for some people. Okay that's the thing

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I actually find when like researching different other energy accreditations like BREAM they're

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all like short for something like it's all you know it'd be BREAM or CFSH or HGM or like stuff

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like that. Yeah there's loads of yeah BRE you run a number of them and then there's also ones like

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well standard and FEDWELL which is yeah it's more kind of like health and well being in a building

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once it's occupied. That's actually very interesting. But they're all some form of abbreviation. Well

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definitely like dive more into that later like definitely. Okay so can you tell me what exact

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process do you go through to create a BREAM assessment? So the way obviously it's kind of

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it's broad strategy but it's all it depends on the building so it kind of starts off and BREAM splits

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into different building categories first. So firstly you'd find out say is it a new build

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or is it a retrofit, is it refurb, and how much is it being built out. So for instance a lot of

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offices may only do like it's called a CAD A fit out so it would generally be so you don't need

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build you wouldn't know your tenants so it'd be a shell and core and that's how you assess it as a

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shell and core building but generally it would be a fully fitted which is everything's installed

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all your services all your heating everything's there for when the tenants walk in. So once you

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have that kind of confirmed you then have to see what credits are available. So ideally it would

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all and ideally you're on early enough so you can have some sort of say or you know like the travel

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assessment for instance and sorry there's loads of different because there's different credits and a

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lot of different timing requirements in BREAM to try to make sure that you've thought about for

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instance energy you thought about this at the very start how the building's shaped, how it's going to

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like be heated and what kind of energy like equipment can you use at the start what renewable

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energies can you kind of apply because it's say it's very fur on but you're sitting in the middle

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of a very populated place you can't really do geothermal or wind so that's kind of locked away

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pretty early on so it's very building dependent. This is probably a loaded question but just how

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many people would you talk to in the design team when on a project like when on a construction

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project? So you talk to the architects you talk to the main your main point of call would likely

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be the project manager or for the contractors themselves and that's how you mainly how you're

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trying to drive the assessment but from there because BREAM's loads of different aspects so

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you talk to the contractors you talk to the architects you'd have to get in touch with the

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ecologist you'd have to get in touch with the civil engineers the structural engineers the M&E

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the mechanical guys the electrical guys the energy assessors and as well as that acoustics as well

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so it's really and transport assessors as well so it's barely anything you can think of that goes

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into a building you probably have to BREAM try to incorporate that in some way. That's very cool

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do you ever get now that you've been working in this field two years do you ever get where

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you're walking past a building and like maybe it's a large like a high-rise or anything and

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you think God I know how much work actually went into that yeah it's like maybe two years previously

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you're like yeah whatever. It was more I think when I first started to you were doing it all

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lots of over teams and you're doing all these discussions and seeing these drawings and that

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then you actually go see the building and you're like oh I know where that is I've been seeing in

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person for the first time it's like yeah I know I know fair by the display. That's good that's good

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and Mark how long can a BREAM assessment go on for? Depends because so BREAM assessments are

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split into two parts so you there's a design stage and a post-construction stage so you have

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sort of two different certificates that you have to achieve so firstly you'd come through and so

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design stage depends where you join in say previous stage three which is generally everyone's on board

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buildings kind of decided and set out and now you come on and you're trying to push it across

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board to get this BREAM assessment so that could be six generally we like to hope for a six months

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for design but it never is. It's a piece of string you know it's because you're working with so many

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different people and they have to meet the specific criteria it can be difficult to make

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to narrow that down and get like ready to assess and then the post-construction will be similar so

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they'll be over the course of a building's life cycle really as long as the building's being

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constructed you'd have some sort of BREAM aspect to it. Okay so like I know we're talking you

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complete BREAM assessments but we actually didn't talk about like probably you should have started

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on and you're actually a qualified BREAM assessor. Yes I completed my co-operation last September so

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I was able to complete the assessor training and do the exam so now I can certify well I have UK

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new construction so I can certify buildings and assessing to be able to send out to the BRE so

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they can confirm that the rating is achieved and because BREAM is split into different ratings

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it goes from pass to outstanding and there's different standards you have to meet along the way but

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as a BREAM assessor you're allowed to and kind of so you're you have you decide it's you know

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you're given information you're collating it and then right this is ready to submit and I believe

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it's an excellent and the BRE will come to me I'll send it to the BRE and then after some time

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they'll come back and it's like you say that's an excellent but I don't know if this this or this

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and then I can yeah but this this so I don't think that what are drawn is showing the exact

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thing that it should be shown and it's like okay and then either I'll re go back to the mechanical

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guys and they'll say can this be edited slightly or this isn't showing this can you why isn't it

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shown it and they'll correct it and we'll go back and then we'll get an interim certificate okay

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so yeah again we like talking to everyone and not very full on process and job yeah and okay but

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like how did you find the training was it hard and I it's okay I'd start because I guess it all

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would depend so it's all about learning the manual and cause thankfully I had been working

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and working within the group and working in a number of teams so I had gotten quite familiar

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with the ream assessment method and was able working on the job you're able to kind of learn

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a lot more then trying to like started blank so it was okay one by the time because by the time

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I was ready to do my assessor training and the course I had already a fair bit of experience

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with the ream method so I was it wasn't too bad but it is a lot trying to learn the very

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specifics of what's required so criteria okay yeah very good yeah like I know exactly what

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you mean look up in an energy assessor for five years and I'm still learning every day okay well

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very good and you're saying the ream manual and I'll get you to send me a link to that and then

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I'll post it with the podcast episode okay so any interested viewers you maybe want to go down the

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ream route and can read up on it but like this is the thing I remember at uni like I studied

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environmental engineering and they take energy modules and ream was talked about but maybe

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ream was talked about me being a couple of slides and didn't even care it wasn't even presented to

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us oh this is a potential job more just talked about ream and it's like yeah it covers health

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well-being this and we're like okay that's awesome oh yeah and also there's ream assessors and like

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what's the like so yeah it's great to see like you know so many in this role like or there's

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more people getting into this role yeah but speaking of ream assessors as a job I'm gonna

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do and I'm gonna move on no okay okay to the bit of bit of fun bit of a quirky section in the

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podcast it's called the what do you breathe I mean okay what do you breathe I'm not on what do you

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breathe yeah section this is a wee section I like to individualize until they're in each

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podcast and I pretty much spent some facts like they do no facts I do just to see if it had like

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it and to the listeners just give it for general information just because it's fun it's quirky

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yeah yeah yeah yeah okay well can you tell me how many ream assessors there are in a hundred mile

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radius and a hundred mile and a lot okay that's your official answer mark brilliant would you be

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surprised to learn there's one thousand nine hundred and fifty five ream assessors that's a

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lot that's a lot of ream assessors yeah so guys just so you know there is job prospects in the

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ream industry like there is so much and there's market and it's continually growing I would say

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that as well it's kind of growing as well because a lot of places for instance London have requirements

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for buildings over a certain size to achieve an excellent ream rating or I know things like in

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many new schools here in Northern Ireland have to achieve an excellent rating as well so that's kind

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of like a new role being brought in I know that Belfast City Council is incurred encourages new

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large buildings to have a ream assessment wow okay so it is kind of is growing and it's kind

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of well received and it's kind of almost like at the end of the ream assessment they're able to

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say this building has ream and ream and the so and so rating we're gonna talk about ratings more

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later but with the ream accreditation you get a certain rating just break it down so it's almost

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like it's marketing the building as best very much so yeah and generally and buildings are able to

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I guess they're sold on better if they have ream rating similar to ABCs imagine so like APC of A

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that's class yeah and I ream excellent is also excellent back to the what do you ream section

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okay legitimate section and okay how many energy accreditation schemes do you think there are out

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there for buildings and energy accreditations and there's obviously the building regulations

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and ones come to mind like the neighbors and that and but probably a hundred I don't know

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you don't know wow okay this answer is gonna look wow okay thanks Mark so according to workman.co.uk

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with green building certificates there are 15 that are commonly used this includes ream but

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also includes like the one you said neighbors UK and there's I think you also mentioned at the

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start that's well yeah it's not a room that one that's more health like it's kind of then it'll

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be like during the building operates so the amount of water if there's fresh water available

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easy accessible by building documents and indoor air quality and that kind of leads into pream as

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well but it's very much about in use so much like operational energy needs for how building

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operates like and includes different stuff and kind of how it operates well okay and then there's

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also the home quality mark yes which I know I know like I've been seeing you doing a lot of them in

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the past people and they're quite they seem quite extensive assessments I'm pretty I'm pretty fresh

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to whom quality mark and but it's it's basically pream for residential buildings and it differs

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or it can be quite difficult because unlike super am you'd have a rating for an entire building

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whereas home quality mark say you have a block of ten houses there'd be a different rating for each

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house so you have to achieve either the same for every single house or some might one may only be

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one may have two beds and for free people one may have five beds so there's specific requirements

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for the number of beds so differs okay so back to the what do you pream section I almost forgot

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the name of the section there like I'm on a different page it's got such a good name yeah

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it's such a good name it's gonna be groundbreaking like okay so did you know pream was first published

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by the BRE in 1990 okay and okay I don't know why I was expecting that wow really like such a

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reaction to that and but it's considered the world's longest established method of assessing

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sustainability and energy for buildings yeah so I talked about about pream there so just to break

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it down for all the listeners who maybe aren't aware pream measures energy health and well-being

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transport water use ecology and biodiversity and materials and waste and pollution with a

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heavy emphasis on life cycle value I think I directly took that from somewhere I think I

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took that from the management section in there as well oh it's there oh yeah yeah there is like

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yeah no my bad and that we can tell you is the pream assessor here okay and like so you've been

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like an actual inspection like so we get so you do and site inspections kind of because obviously

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we'll have drawings and drawings reports and that for the building and kind of across it but in a

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lot of ways for instance there's when we submit an assessment there's a BRE quality assurance QA

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and it's a lot easier when we're submitting something and if we have a photo of it as well

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so we have to do kind of a show it's installed so it says it's on the drawing and it says in

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the report but and we have to also show a picture of it like yes this is definitely installed and

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for instance like ecology measures it's a lot easier to show them for like bird boxes or a

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green roof or that you need to show it on a picture similar to stuff like bin stores and

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signage signage is a big thing because it's obviously it's easy to see on a drawing but a

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lot of them query if you're walking into this building can you get to the cycle store all right

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is there clear signage across the way to get there okay very good wow so you definitely would say

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you go to site a lot or good as like it you're you would be required to go to site yes a fair

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month yeah thankfully I do quite enjoy that though yeah yeah it's great practical experiences yeah

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it's good yeah and it's always nice when you go to site like maybe they tell you something's done

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and you go there and you're like oh that's what that is so we're like that's what yeah so again

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we're still in there I know it's become tedious knowing but we're still in the what do you bring

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on section off the podcast so we talked about briam assessors previously how many briam assessments

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do you think there are currently out there I think there's about 2000 2000 more but if I remember

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see this is and this comes up in like the blurb I guess of the manual account says there's so many

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probably maybe that two voices might be too big things probably closer like 200 cert 200

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certified us no that's too late I know you previously talked about there's like there is

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different types of briam so I don't think this was a fair question and with the new construction

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that I and everything so I just went on the bere tool like you know it's too close it's way too

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big is that you know okay and it might surprise the learners to know but the like there's this

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tool on the bere briam website that allows you to search for how many assessments have been done

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I'll double check to see if it's still green book live 100 mile radius like I don't know I know

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because obviously there'll be for the UK assessments then there's international assessments as well

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yeah so I think this is actually what it's taken it's taken in kind everything yeah so don't take a

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guess about how many brain everything there is yes it I said two foils and bum not sure if that's

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too big or too okay would you be surprised to know it is 34 thousand 643 yeah I would be surprised

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last night as I've checked who knows like maybe today there could be the numbers just gonna keep

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on going up people okay right well we talked about like the briam assessments briam assessors

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now I want to dwell a bit more into briam itself so we talked about the certification of it but

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I'm with like once you complete briam assessment you get a certain certification with that like

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pretty much it's like a grade yes yeah how many grades are there mark oh and also just as a

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side point we've not left the like what do you write I'll do a round of applause or something

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that's sure like I'm gonna be very happy they're like a week off club yeah okay but yes sorry back

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to my original point our original question how many grades are there for briam sorry I'm cutting

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on the fingers that's not very five there are five however a secret answer would also be six

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because did you know you can get a not classified one yeah like it's so you're like you pay for the

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briam assessment you under do it you put your bills in there's so much and it doesn't even get a

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grade like see and it's because there's rating levels so each level each of those six and you

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can I guess get it on classified but and a no one would know what would want that and be it there's

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quite a lot of effort and time to put into briam assessment and to for it to be unclassified it

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just wouldn't look well okay well we're just I just want to go through the what like the different

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grades so the first okay first actual one is a pass okay can you tell me what the next one is good

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okay and then the next one is very good can you tell me what the next one is excellent yeah and

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then the best one to get is outstanding okay and but on the website I'm brilliant and quoting the

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sources like I promised and but it says beside outstanding there's less than the top 1% of UK

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non-domestic buildings half this so that that's really that's good and there's ratings with each

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each shows levels have a percentage against him and it's kind of showing and generally how against

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like building regulations it's the cheese and the idea is for an outstanding for some of the

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people be like scientists I sound so it's very hard to achieve I kind of shows that the buildings

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and it's like an A star for buildings yeah that's a love one you know it's okay like you know you

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equivocate something like oh that's what that means okay okay well now just want to delve a bit more

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into your work your work portfolio can you tell me what's the most difficult job you've ever worked

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on and how long did it take you and so one of the first jobs and I worked on was actually it was

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like a multi-use so it was three different assessments and one so it was all the one building

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so I come onto it in the post-doc construction stage and it took about six months to get

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everything collated and it was just very for because it was against three different buildings

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and two were the same type thankfully but one was a different category so it was a school and other

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two were hotels but they all had slightly different requirements and slightly different

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ratings achieved so you'd be requesting information for one then be slightly different information

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for another and yet a drop of credit for one pick it up another kind of it was just it's not as

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difficult to kind of like keep track of and make sure it was still everything was plowing on the

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same way okay well and I asked I've been asking my guests about this and just with the current

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their current specialized field but can you tell me what your favorite thing about

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briam is like what do you love to do as an assessor to bear it's quite so generally in briam cause

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it's kind of like whereas you're running a lot of meetings and you're also and so you'd be doing

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meetings for kind of different projects and I quite like how in my as a briam assessor I'm working

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against loads different building types with loads of different design teams on like a weekly or

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daily basis so you're trying to see it all doing loads of different buildings loads of different

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areas and they each have different requirements so it's kind of a it's good it's a good challenge

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to kind of keep going and kind of keep track of all the different projects going on at the same

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time and with the different team members and not everyone you'd work on some projects where some

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people aren't so keen or don't know about briam as well as some other people do as just different

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levels of working towards okay so keeping everything organized like and grab that's good

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it's quite good and how you're just working a little it's you're working across different

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uh different uh disciplines and you're learning and you have to kind of get familiarized with

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lots of different information which is good that's yeah nice um well that's mark you've been

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brilliant today so you have you've given so much information about briam and we will definitely

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have you back but just before you go do you have any advice for future perspective engineers

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modelers or people looking to get into briam um it's honestly when you're starting off if you're

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uh getting briam it's very sustainability focused and it's you can't pick it up very easy but it's

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very much learning the manual and trying to stick to that and it's because you don't see it's good

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it's always there so you can come back and forth but it's always good to be able to like know that

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information and it helps a lot when you're in a say you're in a building you can't get to the

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manual you have to remember okay what am i need i need to take a picture of this what's this relating

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to so it's good and yeah so good luck stick to the manual like stick to the manual i've got a

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general bit of advice as well okay it won't surprise you it's a pun but i say a pun it's just

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like people like that's not a pun that's an atrocity or something so it's always briam your a

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game to the table always briam your a game yeah yeah that was fun yeah that like that

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yeah that was fun yeah that was fun yeah that was fun yeah

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no that was fun yeah that was fun yeah thanks everyone for listening to carbon climates if you keep uh if you keep updated with our instagram at carbon underscore climates we will have access to the

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information and links we talked about in today's podcast and it will have all the appropriate links

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to subscribe and keep up to date with this podcast series and thanks again bye do you want to say bye more bye