Hello and welcome and thanks for listening to Carbon Climates, an energy podcast dedicated
to discussing all things energy, carbon and sustainability. We also point out what's getting
hot besides from our planet. Do you like that? I'm your host Aine and today I'm joined by
my Carbon Climate and co-host Mark who I'll be introducing shortly. Well Mark before we get
into today's topic, how's your week been and can you tell us a bit about yourself? Yeah,
pretty good. I'm busy enough. Yeah, not much. So could you tell us a bit about yourself,
so what's your job title? I'm a sustainability engineer and mainly handle like 3M assessments
and I do some life cycle assessments as well for body carbon. Okay, brilliant. How long have you
been in this sector? Almost two years, so not very long at all. Two of the best years of your life.
Of course, of course. Absolutely. Yeah, it's been really good though. It's been really good. And
one of the reasons I'm gonna ask you a question, but one of the reasons I wanted to start this
podcast is because I don't think enough marketing or awareness of jobs in the energy sector is done.
So CSGO, did you ever envisage yourself in a role like this? No, to be honest I probably wasn't
quite sure what a role like this was about when I was in school, but to be honest no. I was very
much in school. I picked something I liked and then moved from there and do this, then do this.
Because of like for instance with geography, so I just kept picking that and then ended up doing
it at uni. Didn't know what CS you do in uni, you kind of like learn loads of different subjects,
more like for instance I did Geography and Environmental Science in Dundee, so like a
joint course. So you end up doing a lot about like sustainability stuff as well as kinds of
physical and human geography as well. So it's kind of branched us out a bit. Okay, very geography,
heavy background. Do you think, has that come in handy with your current role with
BREAM assessments? I think because geography is a weird kind of social science, which is itself
very broad and you kind of go across like a range of subjects, for instance like human and physical
geography. But then BREAM, because it's as an assessment, it's like spread very much across
the different aspects of a building. For instance you do about water efficiency and you also learn
about energy items and then but also kind of addresses things like transport for a building,
like how accessible it is for the new built to get and kind of also includes ecology. So it's
big broad kind of range, so it does lean in, lean itself to geography background I believe.
That's really great to hear because you know I know a lot of people who maybe study geography
at uni and I know some who they go in so many different fields and career paths that aren't
geography. I think my sister's partner, he studied geography at uni and now he's an accountant. So
it's just like it shows you like you know geography is one of those areas that I could lead you
anywhere but it definitely like as you said like it definitely helps this role. So you said what
was it, what are the type of assessments you do again? So I'd call BREAM assessments. BREAM
assessments, that brings us onto today's topic which is going to be BREAM and the world of
entry accreditation in construction. Yeah I was trying to make it like you know cool and breezy,
so you kind of do a lead in like you know okay okay just work with me here okay. Yeah sorry.
Okay can you tell me what BREAM stands for? It's the building regulation establishment education
assessment method. Yeah it's a my full depth. It is my full and then obviously it's BREAM and
a lot of people call it BREAM like the fish so it's easier for some people. Okay that's the thing
I actually find when like researching different other energy accreditations like BREAM they're
all like short for something like it's all you know it'd be BREAM or CFSH or HGM or like stuff
like that. Yeah there's loads of yeah BRE you run a number of them and then there's also ones like
well standard and FEDWELL which is yeah it's more kind of like health and well being in a building
once it's occupied. That's actually very interesting. But they're all some form of abbreviation. Well
definitely like dive more into that later like definitely. Okay so can you tell me what exact
process do you go through to create a BREAM assessment? So the way obviously it's kind of
it's broad strategy but it's all it depends on the building so it kind of starts off and BREAM splits
into different building categories first. So firstly you'd find out say is it a new build
or is it a retrofit, is it refurb, and how much is it being built out. So for instance a lot of
offices may only do like it's called a CAD A fit out so it would generally be so you don't need
build you wouldn't know your tenants so it'd be a shell and core and that's how you assess it as a
shell and core building but generally it would be a fully fitted which is everything's installed
all your services all your heating everything's there for when the tenants walk in. So once you
have that kind of confirmed you then have to see what credits are available. So ideally it would
all and ideally you're on early enough so you can have some sort of say or you know like the travel
assessment for instance and sorry there's loads of different because there's different credits and a
lot of different timing requirements in BREAM to try to make sure that you've thought about for
instance energy you thought about this at the very start how the building's shaped, how it's going to
like be heated and what kind of energy like equipment can you use at the start what renewable
energies can you kind of apply because it's say it's very fur on but you're sitting in the middle
of a very populated place you can't really do geothermal or wind so that's kind of locked away
pretty early on so it's very building dependent. This is probably a loaded question but just how
many people would you talk to in the design team when on a project like when on a construction
project? So you talk to the architects you talk to the main your main point of call would likely
be the project manager or for the contractors themselves and that's how you mainly how you're
trying to drive the assessment but from there because BREAM's loads of different aspects so
you talk to the contractors you talk to the architects you'd have to get in touch with the
ecologist you'd have to get in touch with the civil engineers the structural engineers the M&E
the mechanical guys the electrical guys the energy assessors and as well as that acoustics as well
so it's really and transport assessors as well so it's barely anything you can think of that goes
into a building you probably have to BREAM try to incorporate that in some way. That's very cool
do you ever get now that you've been working in this field two years do you ever get where
you're walking past a building and like maybe it's a large like a high-rise or anything and
you think God I know how much work actually went into that yeah it's like maybe two years previously
you're like yeah whatever. It was more I think when I first started to you were doing it all
lots of over teams and you're doing all these discussions and seeing these drawings and that
then you actually go see the building and you're like oh I know where that is I've been seeing in
person for the first time it's like yeah I know I know fair by the display. That's good that's good
and Mark how long can a BREAM assessment go on for? Depends because so BREAM assessments are
split into two parts so you there's a design stage and a post-construction stage so you have
sort of two different certificates that you have to achieve so firstly you'd come through and so
design stage depends where you join in say previous stage three which is generally everyone's on board
buildings kind of decided and set out and now you come on and you're trying to push it across
board to get this BREAM assessment so that could be six generally we like to hope for a six months
for design but it never is. It's a piece of string you know it's because you're working with so many
different people and they have to meet the specific criteria it can be difficult to make
to narrow that down and get like ready to assess and then the post-construction will be similar so
they'll be over the course of a building's life cycle really as long as the building's being
constructed you'd have some sort of BREAM aspect to it. Okay so like I know we're talking you
complete BREAM assessments but we actually didn't talk about like probably you should have started
on and you're actually a qualified BREAM assessor. Yes I completed my co-operation last September so
I was able to complete the assessor training and do the exam so now I can certify well I have UK
new construction so I can certify buildings and assessing to be able to send out to the BRE so
they can confirm that the rating is achieved and because BREAM is split into different ratings
it goes from pass to outstanding and there's different standards you have to meet along the way but
as a BREAM assessor you're allowed to and kind of so you're you have you decide it's you know
you're given information you're collating it and then right this is ready to submit and I believe
it's an excellent and the BRE will come to me I'll send it to the BRE and then after some time
they'll come back and it's like you say that's an excellent but I don't know if this this or this
and then I can yeah but this this so I don't think that what are drawn is showing the exact
thing that it should be shown and it's like okay and then either I'll re go back to the mechanical
guys and they'll say can this be edited slightly or this isn't showing this can you why isn't it
shown it and they'll correct it and we'll go back and then we'll get an interim certificate okay
so yeah again we like talking to everyone and not very full on process and job yeah and okay but
like how did you find the training was it hard and I it's okay I'd start because I guess it all
would depend so it's all about learning the manual and cause thankfully I had been working
and working within the group and working in a number of teams so I had gotten quite familiar
with the ream assessment method and was able working on the job you're able to kind of learn
a lot more then trying to like started blank so it was okay one by the time because by the time
I was ready to do my assessor training and the course I had already a fair bit of experience
with the ream method so I was it wasn't too bad but it is a lot trying to learn the very
specifics of what's required so criteria okay yeah very good yeah like I know exactly what
you mean look up in an energy assessor for five years and I'm still learning every day okay well
very good and you're saying the ream manual and I'll get you to send me a link to that and then
I'll post it with the podcast episode okay so any interested viewers you maybe want to go down the
ream route and can read up on it but like this is the thing I remember at uni like I studied
environmental engineering and they take energy modules and ream was talked about but maybe
ream was talked about me being a couple of slides and didn't even care it wasn't even presented to
us oh this is a potential job more just talked about ream and it's like yeah it covers health
well-being this and we're like okay that's awesome oh yeah and also there's ream assessors and like
what's the like so yeah it's great to see like you know so many in this role like or there's
more people getting into this role yeah but speaking of ream assessors as a job I'm gonna
do and I'm gonna move on no okay okay to the bit of bit of fun bit of a quirky section in the
podcast it's called the what do you breathe I mean okay what do you breathe I'm not on what do you
breathe yeah section this is a wee section I like to individualize until they're in each
podcast and I pretty much spent some facts like they do no facts I do just to see if it had like
it and to the listeners just give it for general information just because it's fun it's quirky
yeah yeah yeah yeah okay well can you tell me how many ream assessors there are in a hundred mile
radius and a hundred mile and a lot okay that's your official answer mark brilliant would you be
surprised to learn there's one thousand nine hundred and fifty five ream assessors that's a
lot that's a lot of ream assessors yeah so guys just so you know there is job prospects in the
ream industry like there is so much and there's market and it's continually growing I would say
that as well it's kind of growing as well because a lot of places for instance London have requirements
for buildings over a certain size to achieve an excellent ream rating or I know things like in
many new schools here in Northern Ireland have to achieve an excellent rating as well so that's kind
of like a new role being brought in I know that Belfast City Council is incurred encourages new
large buildings to have a ream assessment wow okay so it is kind of is growing and it's kind
of well received and it's kind of almost like at the end of the ream assessment they're able to
say this building has ream and ream and the so and so rating we're gonna talk about ratings more
later but with the ream accreditation you get a certain rating just break it down so it's almost
like it's marketing the building as best very much so yeah and generally and buildings are able to
I guess they're sold on better if they have ream rating similar to ABCs imagine so like APC of A
that's class yeah and I ream excellent is also excellent back to the what do you ream section
okay legitimate section and okay how many energy accreditation schemes do you think there are out
there for buildings and energy accreditations and there's obviously the building regulations
and ones come to mind like the neighbors and that and but probably a hundred I don't know
you don't know wow okay this answer is gonna look wow okay thanks Mark so according to workman.co.uk
with green building certificates there are 15 that are commonly used this includes ream but
also includes like the one you said neighbors UK and there's I think you also mentioned at the
start that's well yeah it's not a room that one that's more health like it's kind of then it'll
be like during the building operates so the amount of water if there's fresh water available
easy accessible by building documents and indoor air quality and that kind of leads into pream as
well but it's very much about in use so much like operational energy needs for how building
operates like and includes different stuff and kind of how it operates well okay and then there's
also the home quality mark yes which I know I know like I've been seeing you doing a lot of them in
the past people and they're quite they seem quite extensive assessments I'm pretty I'm pretty fresh
to whom quality mark and but it's it's basically pream for residential buildings and it differs
or it can be quite difficult because unlike super am you'd have a rating for an entire building
whereas home quality mark say you have a block of ten houses there'd be a different rating for each
house so you have to achieve either the same for every single house or some might one may only be
one may have two beds and for free people one may have five beds so there's specific requirements
for the number of beds so differs okay so back to the what do you pream section I almost forgot
the name of the section there like I'm on a different page it's got such a good name yeah
it's such a good name it's gonna be groundbreaking like okay so did you know pream was first published
by the BRE in 1990 okay and okay I don't know why I was expecting that wow really like such a
reaction to that and but it's considered the world's longest established method of assessing
sustainability and energy for buildings yeah so I talked about about pream there so just to break
it down for all the listeners who maybe aren't aware pream measures energy health and well-being
transport water use ecology and biodiversity and materials and waste and pollution with a
heavy emphasis on life cycle value I think I directly took that from somewhere I think I
took that from the management section in there as well oh it's there oh yeah yeah there is like
yeah no my bad and that we can tell you is the pream assessor here okay and like so you've been
like an actual inspection like so we get so you do and site inspections kind of because obviously
we'll have drawings and drawings reports and that for the building and kind of across it but in a
lot of ways for instance there's when we submit an assessment there's a BRE quality assurance QA
and it's a lot easier when we're submitting something and if we have a photo of it as well
so we have to do kind of a show it's installed so it says it's on the drawing and it says in
the report but and we have to also show a picture of it like yes this is definitely installed and
for instance like ecology measures it's a lot easier to show them for like bird boxes or a
green roof or that you need to show it on a picture similar to stuff like bin stores and
signage signage is a big thing because it's obviously it's easy to see on a drawing but a
lot of them query if you're walking into this building can you get to the cycle store all right
is there clear signage across the way to get there okay very good wow so you definitely would say
you go to site a lot or good as like it you're you would be required to go to site yes a fair
month yeah thankfully I do quite enjoy that though yeah yeah it's great practical experiences yeah
it's good yeah and it's always nice when you go to site like maybe they tell you something's done
and you go there and you're like oh that's what that is so we're like that's what yeah so again
we're still in there I know it's become tedious knowing but we're still in the what do you bring
on section off the podcast so we talked about briam assessors previously how many briam assessments
do you think there are currently out there I think there's about 2000 2000 more but if I remember
see this is and this comes up in like the blurb I guess of the manual account says there's so many
probably maybe that two voices might be too big things probably closer like 200 cert 200
certified us no that's too late I know you previously talked about there's like there is
different types of briam so I don't think this was a fair question and with the new construction
that I and everything so I just went on the bere tool like you know it's too close it's way too
big is that you know okay and it might surprise the learners to know but the like there's this
tool on the bere briam website that allows you to search for how many assessments have been done
I'll double check to see if it's still green book live 100 mile radius like I don't know I know
because obviously there'll be for the UK assessments then there's international assessments as well
yeah so I think this is actually what it's taken it's taken in kind everything yeah so don't take a
guess about how many brain everything there is yes it I said two foils and bum not sure if that's
too big or too okay would you be surprised to know it is 34 thousand 643 yeah I would be surprised
last night as I've checked who knows like maybe today there could be the numbers just gonna keep
on going up people okay right well we talked about like the briam assessments briam assessors
now I want to dwell a bit more into briam itself so we talked about the certification of it but
I'm with like once you complete briam assessment you get a certain certification with that like
pretty much it's like a grade yes yeah how many grades are there mark oh and also just as a
side point we've not left the like what do you write I'll do a round of applause or something
that's sure like I'm gonna be very happy they're like a week off club yeah okay but yes sorry back
to my original point our original question how many grades are there for briam sorry I'm cutting
on the fingers that's not very five there are five however a secret answer would also be six
because did you know you can get a not classified one yeah like it's so you're like you pay for the
briam assessment you under do it you put your bills in there's so much and it doesn't even get a
grade like see and it's because there's rating levels so each level each of those six and you
can I guess get it on classified but and a no one would know what would want that and be it there's
quite a lot of effort and time to put into briam assessment and to for it to be unclassified it
just wouldn't look well okay well we're just I just want to go through the what like the different
grades so the first okay first actual one is a pass okay can you tell me what the next one is good
okay and then the next one is very good can you tell me what the next one is excellent yeah and
then the best one to get is outstanding okay and but on the website I'm brilliant and quoting the
sources like I promised and but it says beside outstanding there's less than the top 1% of UK
non-domestic buildings half this so that that's really that's good and there's ratings with each
each shows levels have a percentage against him and it's kind of showing and generally how against
like building regulations it's the cheese and the idea is for an outstanding for some of the
people be like scientists I sound so it's very hard to achieve I kind of shows that the buildings
and it's like an A star for buildings yeah that's a love one you know it's okay like you know you
equivocate something like oh that's what that means okay okay well now just want to delve a bit more
into your work your work portfolio can you tell me what's the most difficult job you've ever worked
on and how long did it take you and so one of the first jobs and I worked on was actually it was
like a multi-use so it was three different assessments and one so it was all the one building
so I come onto it in the post-doc construction stage and it took about six months to get
everything collated and it was just very for because it was against three different buildings
and two were the same type thankfully but one was a different category so it was a school and other
two were hotels but they all had slightly different requirements and slightly different
ratings achieved so you'd be requesting information for one then be slightly different information
for another and yet a drop of credit for one pick it up another kind of it was just it's not as
difficult to kind of like keep track of and make sure it was still everything was plowing on the
same way okay well and I asked I've been asking my guests about this and just with the current
their current specialized field but can you tell me what your favorite thing about
briam is like what do you love to do as an assessor to bear it's quite so generally in briam cause
it's kind of like whereas you're running a lot of meetings and you're also and so you'd be doing
meetings for kind of different projects and I quite like how in my as a briam assessor I'm working
against loads different building types with loads of different design teams on like a weekly or
daily basis so you're trying to see it all doing loads of different buildings loads of different
areas and they each have different requirements so it's kind of a it's good it's a good challenge
to kind of keep going and kind of keep track of all the different projects going on at the same
time and with the different team members and not everyone you'd work on some projects where some
people aren't so keen or don't know about briam as well as some other people do as just different
levels of working towards okay so keeping everything organized like and grab that's good
it's quite good and how you're just working a little it's you're working across different
uh different uh disciplines and you're learning and you have to kind of get familiarized with
lots of different information which is good that's yeah nice um well that's mark you've been
brilliant today so you have you've given so much information about briam and we will definitely
have you back but just before you go do you have any advice for future perspective engineers
modelers or people looking to get into briam um it's honestly when you're starting off if you're
uh getting briam it's very sustainability focused and it's you can't pick it up very easy but it's
very much learning the manual and trying to stick to that and it's because you don't see it's good
it's always there so you can come back and forth but it's always good to be able to like know that
information and it helps a lot when you're in a say you're in a building you can't get to the
manual you have to remember okay what am i need i need to take a picture of this what's this relating
to so it's good and yeah so good luck stick to the manual like stick to the manual i've got a
general bit of advice as well okay it won't surprise you it's a pun but i say a pun it's just
like people like that's not a pun that's an atrocity or something so it's always briam your a
game to the table always briam your a game yeah yeah that was fun yeah that like that
yeah that was fun yeah that was fun yeah that was fun yeah
no that was fun yeah that was fun yeah thanks everyone for listening to carbon climates if you keep uh if you keep updated with our instagram at carbon underscore climates we will have access to the
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