Hello, welcome and thanks for listening to Carbon Climates, an energy podcast dedicated
to discussing all things energy, carbon and sustainability. We also want to point out
that the world is getting hot, aside from our planet. I'm your host Aine and today I'm
joined with my Carbon Climate and co-host Alison, who I will be introducing shortly.
Before we get into today's topic, Alison, how's your week been and can you tell me a
bit about yourself? Well, not me, sorry, us about yourself. Well, it depends what you
want to know about my week. Are we talking work week? Are we talking life week? Let's
say both because this is Carbon Climates after all, like we're all mates here. I see what
you did there. I like that. That's good. That's good. Work wise, pretty good, pretty solid
work going on. Life wise, I spend a lot of time with my dogs and that is the height of
it. It is a lot of outdoors, greenery and fun. Yeah. What are their names for the audience?
I have two springers, Todd and Fern, who are just as crazy as I am. So we get on really
well. Brilliant. Brilliant. So what is your job title? Oh, how long have we got from this
conversation? I started originally, I was a simulation engineer. I then transitioned
and turned into a visualisation specialist. And yes, it was an invented term and I am
okay with that. And currently I am an associate. Yeah, that's me. Very impressive stuff. And
like, so just how long have you been in the energy sector? Oh, six years now. Probably
not as much as other people, but. Wow. Carved a little path. We're sticking with it. We
like the climate. We like everything energy. We're sticking with it. You're in really deep
night. Yeah. Yeah, I'm in it. I'm in completely. I am invested. And see, see at Skull, did
you ever like envisage yourself in this role? Oh, does anybody? Did this industry exist
when we were at Skull? I doubt it. It probably did actually. We just didn't know anything
about it. Yeah, it's like, that's exactly, that's a really good point. Yeah. Well, no,
I didn't know it existed, so I had no plans for it. I wanted to work in theatre and performance
technology or animation. OK, yeah. I do neither of those things now. That is. But like, what
is it? Those are those all kind of maybe circle. Yeah. Have some sort of relation to maybe
what we do now, but also today's topic. Yes. Which we're going to talk about. All the fun
things. Yeah. All the technical things. Love it. But like, you know, thanks very much for
explaining what like more just about your role, like just a bit about yourself. But
I just have one question for you. Go for it. OK, well, one question though. Naomi Campbell,
Kate Moss, Kendall Jenner, myself. What do all these things happen? Come on. Oh, I can't
cope with this. Are you supermodels? Yeah, that's it. Correct. They're all models. OK.
That is spectacular. And that brings us to today's topic. Modelling. More specifically,
building modeling. More more specifically, building information modeling or what's known
in the industry as BIM, which we use as a big part in our jobs as energy and sustainability
engineers. But yeah, architects, engineers and most professions in the construction industry
will know what BIM means. But for those of you who don't, BIM is one of the digital model
of the building is created through CAD, which stands for Computer Aided Design Software.
As energy sensors, we often use 3D models of this. We then populate this model with
information on the building itself, such as the types of walls, windows, heating, ventilation,
lighting. The list is endless. OK, well, the list is actually finite, but I'll stop there
or it's just going to be boggassed and me listing things. We then simulate the model
and specialize software to get an output of energy and carbon usage for the building.
So Alison, talking about your role, you like you build models and you build them from scratch.
What exact process do you go through to build a 3D model? Oh, this is a good one. BIM is
a bit of a weird term. If you talk to an engineer or you talk to one of us or you talk to an
architect, we probably have three very different meanings for it. So my purpose from an energy
modeling point of view, I take architectural information, so floor plans, sections, elevations
and create a 3D representation geometry of their information so we can simulate it and
run our assessments for it. Essentially, my step is probably the lowest maintenance for everyone
else. You know, I can fly under the radar and say, guys, have you got these plans? And then
I'll go and build it and it's great. That's all I need. But the rest of it, so say if you're
simulating and you're doing more assessments and things, you'll probably need to annoy an architect
more often than I would. I can get away with it. I'm not that annoying. I don't pester.
Well, I might in the office, but I don't necessarily externally. But essentially,
all I do is take the information provided and build a 3D representation model. Wow. Yeah,
it's fun. It's very interesting. And like, see over the years you've been doing this,
I'm sure you've seen changes in the way that things are supposed to be built on.
Yeah. It's an interesting one. So obviously, technology never stops. There's always going
to be improvements. Everything's always going to get better. The software has gotten so much better.
I remember when I started, it used to take us about two weeks to do a model, like take the
geometry, put it in IES and someone literally just populate it, just get it to the point that
someone can hit run. It was two weeks, even for a small model. Now we could do that in about two
days. So it's crazy how much has advanced. I like it. I like that it changes so much, but other
people might not see it that way. I like the changes when it comes to things like that.
Would there be any particular software program you use to help build the models that you'd use
for energy simulation? Well, it depends on the company. Personally, within our firm,
well, that is the company that I work for, we build our models in Revit. But the information
that we get from architects typically comes in the form of drawings. So it's AutoCAD. So what I have
to do is I'll take the AutoCAD drawing, might have to scale it up, do a few things in CAD,
then import it into Revit, build the geometry in Revit and bring it into the IESV software.
So it's a few different exchanges, different softwares, translating between them.
I'll also use PDF markup for things like that. If there's limited information from an architect
or anything like that, that we can't measure within a CAD, we just get a PDF. You can do it
in one of those. It's great. There's workarounds for everything, but I would say my basic
softwares that I work with is Revit, CAD and PDF software. Quite a range there. Yeah, just a slight
range. Is there any sort of training that you went through or is there any particular paths that you
find useful or would you say a more hands-on approach, like learning on the go is better or
maybe would work for some people? I wouldn't say one's necessarily better than the other.
It depends on how you learn. Personally, I'm a jumping at the deep end, hope you swim.
A lot of my training personally has been either self-taught or tutorials or things like that.
I'm not what you would call classically trained. I didn't come into this through an engineering
point of view. This was never my goal career. I fell into it, fell in love with it and kept going.
There's definitely courses out there to do BIM modelling or geometry modelling or whatever you
want. I just didn't go about it that way. There's different ways to get into it. There's different
methods to get into it, but whatever works as long as you get the right end result.
That's actually really great to hear because so many people I know from school or a lot of my
friends, they maybe go along a certain career path and they realise three, four years in,
I don't like this. Am I supposed to do this for the rest of my life? It's great to hear that
with this it is okay to transfer to this sector and you can learn a wide range of things.
Yeah, you're never pigeonholed when it comes to things like this. The beauty of engineering is
anyone could do it. You don't necessarily have to train that way. You don't necessarily have to do
anything. As long as you have the desire to learn and improve, sky's your limit.
That's a great inspirational quote for you guys. Congratulations. You're welcome.
Okay, so Alison, you mentioned software there, part of the CAD family.
So since you mentioned that, do you know what time it is?
I don't. It is time for the CAD yourself on section. Unreal. I love that. That was
spectacular. So this is just a wee, it's specific for this episode, but it's just a number of wee
facts. We did some research in CAD technology and some software, just a number of wee facts for you
and our listeners. Hit me with them. Okay, so Ravix software, as you mentioned, is issued by
Autodesk and they supply a variety of other different software packages like AutoCAD.
And did you know they supply one called Inventor? Yes. Yeah, oh you hear that. Yeah, oh I am up to
date with my CAD. I am an Autodesk gal. Inventor, like you know, I was just like, I noted that
because that's a cool name. That is a cool name. They have a lot. There's one called Mudbox,
one called Maya. They're great too. Wow. Yeah. You're like the guru. I am. If I like something,
I learn about it. That's it. Okay, did you know the initial release of Revit was on April 5th,
2000? I did not know that. So do you know what that means? It's an Aries. No comment.
What's yours? What's yours, Doris, like? I don't think I'm compatible with Revit. That's upsetting.
Is Scorpio compatible with that? I don't even know. Yeah, no, I'm sure. Do you think? I'm not
gonna lie, I don't know enough. Neither do I. Like, just be of that mind. Shall we just say yes and
say it's a match made in heaven? Yeah, we'll go with that. I'll read your horoscope next time.
Okay. Okay, well I have a question for you. Shit. How many CAD softwares do you think there are in
existence? Oh, I don't like that question. Oh, you're gonna make steam come out of my ears.
Oh, I don't know. I don't even think I could fathom a guess. Software or like plugins and
add-ins and things? I'd say softwares, but there's like, what is it? To be honest, it is kind of like
a double, it is a hard question because I'm talking about current softwares in issue today,
whereas there maybe have been ones presently that are no longer in use. Oh, I wouldn't, I,
I have no idea. Do you know? Do you have a number? I do, I do know that. I've researched this. Okay.
Put it, put me out of my misery. What have you got? Would you be surprised to learn there's 50?
50? Stop. Yeah. No, there's not. Yeah, there's 50. That's, that, no.
And I thought I knew everything. No. That's upsetting. What is it? I can, I'll give a link to this,
like for the podcast episode and just about the, a link and a list of them. I'm not going to list
all of them because again, that would just be me listing things. I mean, you could, we might be here
for a few hours, but you could do it. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Well then, okay. I've got another, um,
fact for the catch yourself on section. Did you know a man called Charles Eastman or Chuck to his
friends is often noted, okay. And get this term as the father of Ben. No. And he is a key contributor
to development of building information modeling. You found like the Santa Claus of Ben and I have
I mean, I'm not, I have no issue with that fact. That's quite a good one.
You've really done your research. Yeah. Charles Eastman or Chuck, if like we're friendly with him.
And so he was a professor at Georgia tech architecture and he is the founder of the
digital building lab. Smart man. He's a smart man. He's I think a lot of stuff. It's not a bad legacy
to have. Yeah. Yeah. But probably I think it's a lot of stuff we would get up to with our energy
simulations probably derives from that or I'd get some form of that. Oh, easily. Yeah. It's funny.
You can probably trace a lot of what we do right the way back. I wouldn't want to take the time to
do it, but probably good. And just that would be another podcast. That would be another couple hours
down the line there. So and just as a dedication to Charles, so he had a really prosperous career.
He started as an architect, then a professor, and then was the forefront, one of the forefront
researchers into computer aided design. And the rights for computer aided design, he wanted to
develop like most of it. And he literally wrote the Bimham book. Oh, he. Okay. So what's that phrase?
It's like, oh, you, you know, it you wrote the book on. He did read literally wrote that book.
So yeah, imagine being able to say that to someone. I wrote the book on it. And you're not lying.
That would be a pretty good thing to be able to say, maybe we should write a book.
And so that was a catch yourself on section. Thank you for joining. Fantastic. And so,
Alison, back to you. I just have a few questions about your work. Right. Can you think of like,
like some examples or lists of buildings you've worked on?
Oh, what do we want to know about? And say the likes of us, like some hotels, like the size of
them or the number of rooms? Hotels, not to blow my own horn, but I could probably do them in my
sleep. I've done a fair. I mean, it's only been about six years, but I've done a few more than a
few. Can you remember the biggest hotel you've ever worked on? Oh, right. So let's say if we're
talking stories wise, probably there was one in Paddington, London that was about 20 stories at a
basement. That was a big one. That was a good one. That sounds like a big one. Yeah. It was fun.
Like that one. Wow. Yeah. And would you say that's the biggest model you've ever built or like,
how long did that take you to model in Rabbit? Oh, that one, probably not as long as you think.
Okay. Like I said, if I can build hotels in my sleep, they're honestly, they're just so
straightforward. I know exactly what I'm doing. I can fly through them. So I could probably build
something like that in three days if I have the right information. I know we were talking about
training packages earlier, but you should be given the training packages from the signs of this.
Yes. Okay. Oh, well, maybe not. So everyone, if you would like to learn Rabbit, please contact
us directly. I mean, what I do is very niche. So I don't really know how many people are going to
contact me from that, but you know, by all means, if they want to pick my brain, I'm okay with that.
Back to biggest. Oh, biggest project I ever worked on, I actually think was when I just started.
Oh, okay. Yeah. And it was a very big learning curve because like I say, I like to jump into the
deep end and just go for it and hope I swim, which I did swim. So it's fine, you know,
worked out well, but I think it was, well, I know it was, it was a student accommodation in Liverpool
and geometry wise, it was 3000 spaces. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Wow. Wasn't small. And those
were the days when the computer couldn't cope with the model that size. The software couldn't
cope with the model that size. So that took, I remember coming into the office eight o'clock
in the morning and loading the geometry into IES and lunchtime, it was only halfway done. It hadn't
imported into the software. I'm going to put that in context. If we were to do the same model now,
it'd be done in about 10 minutes. Wow. So it was some serious going. Yeah. That was, that was my
biggest. Yeah. And just like a context for listeners at spaces, like they're pretty much
another name for the rooms and the building zones. So you imagine three thousand zones. Yeah. Like
it's a big boy. It's a big boy. Spaces would be the areas that you would face are physically present.
You could, you know, there's walls, binding them. You could walk in, although that one actually did
include risers. So it was a fair amount. Yeah. But still a very big model. OK. Yeah. So what is your
favorite thing to do in Revit? Like any particular features you like or what you enjoy seeing?
Oh, features. See, I'm very set in my ways. I know what I like and I know what works. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So I'm not complaining about Revit. Please, Revit gods don't come at me for this. They do
change things with new releases quite a lot. We're quite lucky we can work in the most recent version
of Revit when the new one comes out. I'm all over that like a rash. I think it's great. OK. They
change things. It annoys me. But what I like most is that I can keep it consistent between versions
for myself. So I have a lot of key and commands and things that speeds up how I model. I could
probably do most of the model without having to click a button. I'll just type on the keyboard
and away I go. Yeah. Like a proper like, you know, like hackers or the matrix. I feel like a hacker.
I probably don't look like one, but yeah. Yeah. You're hacking. Yeah. That's class size. Just call
me Neo. You know, I'll just tap away into the mainframe. It's fine. But yeah, that's probably
my favourite feature, I think, because I can make every version consistent for me. Even though they
change wee things, I can still keep it good for me. Yeah. That's that's mine. Definitely.
Yeah. That's like, yeah, that's been really great to hear. We're kind of winding down on the modeling
podcast at the minute, but I just want to sum up a few points we've talked about. So just I've just
got like a pretty cool point from what you said there. Key and commands are key. Oh, she's on
pan form. This is brilliant. So yeah, sum up. Key and commands are key. There are many different
ways to train for like in-cab softwares and not just one straight way. Yeah. And what else am
trying to think? Just get stuck in. Yeah, just get stuck in. And this role, like if you're ever
thinking about maybe you want to change in your career, give it a go. I mean, personally, I'm
biased. I love it. I think it's great. Yeah. But it's not for everyone. But you know, I fell in
love with it. Okay. Someone else might as well. Yeah. You never know. Okay. Well, just before we
finish, do you have any advice for prospective future cab modelers or rabbit modelers?
Hmm. Let's see. Future advice. Don't panic. Never panic. It's only as bad as you make it.
I have had a few times that I've been modeling and it's something's gone wrong and you can't
figure out exactly what's gone wrong and you're freaking out a wee bit. I see, to be honest,
at the end of the day, it's just a software. There's always an undo button. Okay. You'll be
fine. That's yeah. I like that. Do you like the positive spin on that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's
probably my best. No, I'll put that as the top, like one of the like, you know, the bios or blurs
for this like episode. We don't get an undo button in life, but we do in Revit. Yeah, we do in Revit.
Uh, my, my, uh, advice, uh, it's more just general, a slice of life phrase,
but you don't know what it's like until you've been there and done it. Oh, she's back with puns.
Yeah. I think what is it? This podcast will just be me making puns. I'm okay with that. All the
way through. Yep. And you'll just see like week by week, like a few years, like with a listener,
just de-creasing. Dwindling away. It's like less puns. I think you'll have the opposite effect. I
think more people try and pick up which pun she's doing this week. No, that's always, do you ever,
do you ever get the feeling where, or like maybe you're in a conversation and you slip in a pun.
And they miss it. And the other person doesn't get it. Yep. Your heart kind of breaks inside.
Whereas like I try to make my puns as obvious as possible. So people don't miss them. You're,
you're like in an 80's sitcom where you're just stopping for the ba-dum-bum. The ba-dum-bum is in
my head. Like that's it. Pause for applause. Pause for applause. Proceed. I thought it was.
Yeah. It's not a bad way to do it. It's not bad. I like the puns. I appreciate the puns. They're
good. Especially when they're on topic and on brand. I like that. And this is another piece of
life advice. Make puns along the way. Life is short. Make a pun. Like, oh, that's such a good
summary. Oh my goodness. Oh. Okay. Well everyone, thanks for listening. If you can check out the
Carbon Climates Instagram at carbon and third climates. I will have a link to the software
packages we discussed here today. So you can learn more about them. Yeah. And everyone, thanks. Bye.
Bye. Bye.