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Hey everyone and welcome back to another episode of DOSENAL's podcast.
The focus of this podcast is your undergraduate and dental school experience between dental
students and dental professionals through valuable discussions.
Through sharing the journeys and stories of current dental students and dental professionals,
your goals help you find answers or guidance for your own pre-dental journeys.
We are super excited to have current NYU dental students, Mark and David Abayev as our guests
today.
Mark and David both graduated from Rutgers University.
They are now D3 students at the NYU College of Dentistry.
Their experiences shadowing, assisting and immersing themselves into their pre-dental
society of Rutgers culminated into pursuing a career in dentistry.
Guys, welcome to the podcast.
How are you guys been?
How's your D3 here been treating you?
So well man, thank you for having us.
Doing awesome, doing awesome.
Great to be here.
That sounds great.
So I know you guys are in D3 year.
So how I guess we'll start with that.
How's that been?
So yeah, D3 has definitely been a roller coaster.
They don't lie when they say it's the last pit stop before smooth sailing.
But yeah, it's been going well.
We're going to be headed into our second semester in the upcoming new year.
And can't wait to get started.
Yeah, kind of like Mark said, D3 really is like that last final pit stop before.
You're really like full blown into clinic.
Really D3, the toughest part about D3 is the adjustment between juggling clinic with
the didactics.
So it's a mix of like half and half.
So the way NYU does it is we have two days we're fully in clinic and the other days could
be rotation days.
The toughest part about juggling that is you're having a full day in clinic, eight to five,
treating patients, walking 100 feet all day and then finding the willpower to sit home
and study and get it done when we have exams every single week.
It can be tough to do, but with good time management, it's always possible.
And that all sounds great.
We'll definitely get into the nitty gritty of how dental school really is.
But let's start at the beginning.
So once you guys still slip by yourself, like where you're from, where you grew up, what
you'd like to do for fun, stuff like that.
For sure.
So pretty much we grew up in Jersey.
We moved out from Queens, New York when I was five or what you have.
And David was a year younger.
So we were pretty young, grew up mostly in Jersey.
So we're Jersey boys and decided to go to Rutgers nearby.
So I majored in bio and from there, just decided to explore dentistry as a profession.
I was always interested in medicine.
But right before I started Rutgers, I actually decided to do some more research.
And dentistry was a better fit for me.
But yeah, I've been loving it ever since.
Bibi.
Yes.
A similar remark.
I grew up alongside of in Jersey, ever since I was three or four years old.
We pretty much did everything together from a young age.
Our parents really encouraged us to stick together and just have each other's backs.
And so going into it, we both knew that we wanted to attend Rutgers, something that
was close to home, a little bit on the cheaper side because of the in-state tuition.
And so while I majored in bio, I also started off as a bio major and then decided pretty
literally, my second thing is here, I decided it really wasn't for me.
I really didn't enjoy it.
So I decided to change over to public health, which kind of pushed me back in terms of graduating
in terms of the timeline.
But honestly, I love that decision.
I really feel like it will really make me into a better dentist overall in order to
see a bigger picture of the community.
And so yeah, since then, decided to go full force of public health and never looked back.
That was awesome.
So let's start at the beginning.
So why did you guys get a dentistry?
What made you choose this path, obviously?
So I mean, David will tell you guys a funny story.
But I always was interested in health care from that standpoint.
But being in the volunteering in the hospital setting, I realized that really wasn't for
me.
I see a good foundation of patient physician relationship.
So I thought, let me look into another health care profession.
And David had suggested that he's always been interested in dentistry.
So I kind of decided to look into it myself and found that there was a better relationship
between the dentist and the patient.
And just from growing up, going to the dentist, I saw that firsthand.
I always had a good relationship with my dentist.
The whole stick between floss every day and brush twice a day always stuck with me.
And I felt going into this profession with my brother alongside would be definitely a
good thing.
Just because we always grew up together and did everything together, kind of like David
suggested.
So looked into it a little further, did some shadowing and thought this was it.
So I stuck with it ever since.
So for me, kind of like how Mark mentioned, I knew I wanted to do dentistry for a while.
I really don't know why, but in the seventh grade, my social studies teacher had us write
a paper that was going to be a letter that we write to ourselves that wouldn't be open
until you graduate high school.
And in that letter, there was a portion where you had to input what you want to do as a
career.
And I don't know why, but I took that assignment really, really seriously.
I did a lot of research and I found dentistry.
And I guess at the time, what was it, like 12, 13 year old David at the time was like,
wow, dentistry is an awesome fit because I'm able to help people while also having the
autonomy to run my own business one day, God willing.
So everything kind of culminated into like, wow, dentistry is the perfect fit.
Let me commit to this.
And in that letter, I wrote the very first sentence of the career portion.
I wrote, when I draw up, I want to be a dentist and I want to go to NYU College of Dentistry.
I wrote that verbatim in that letter.
Fast forward to interview days.
I was able to read that letter with me to my interview, showed it to the admissions committee,
and they loved it.
They loved it.
And kind of how Mark said, I was able to kind of bring him over to the dark side of dentistry
for taking him away from medicine and bringing him over to dentistry and convince, and listen,
this is something that we're both going to be committed to when we have each other and
really, as long as we have each other's backs and there really shouldn't be anything that
gets in our way.
So ever since then, we stuck through it and stuck in college with it and then applied
together and then God had all worked out, all knowns place.
I mean, that's like very unique to have.
It's like proof, right?
That you're not lying on your application.
You can think that, right?
That's kind of crazy.
And yeah, I mean, a lot of people ask me, personally, why don't you just go to medicine?
Why did you decide to go dentistry?
Because a lot of times people view dentistry as like, oh, so you were premed, but you just
decided to branch off into this.
Why did you do that?
Easier or whatever.
Med school chopouts.
Exactly.
And I'm like, that's not the mentality you should have because it's more like, the dentistry
is a whole different, I guess, side of patient interaction, right?
Because even when I'm as an assistant myself, on the daily, I'm like dealing with the patient.
I feel like dental assistants deal with the patient more than a doctor asks you sometimes
because of how much time you spend with them, right?
So that's a part I love about it because I mean, every patient is different and every
day is different.
So that's awesome.
And the fact that you had that letter with you to the admissions team, that's pretty unique.
Yeah, we'll get to the interviews too later.
But so, David, so now that you knew that you wanted to go dentistry as a young age, right?
So how did you go into college knowing that this is what you want to do?
How'd you organize your experiences and even a mark and chime in on this as well?
Yeah, so it definitely made my transition into college a lot smoother.
Going into Rutgers, Rutgers is a really large school.
So it could be kind of like a little bit of a wake-up call.
Coming in from a high school, going into a classroom that has over 400 people in one
class, one lecture hall, really could be intimidating.
But knowing that I wanted to be dentistry and knowing that that was my goal at the end
of the day, it really allowed me to kind of develop my schedule, my course load accordingly.
From the early from the gate, I knew exactly that I needed to approach my health professions
office.
I needed to take certain courses that would allow me to graduate on time, which ended up
not happening, but some new yards today, it's all good.
But it really just makes the transition a lot smoother.
And that's something that I really encourage a lot of people to do, is to really figure
it out early.
So while you're in high school, take that time to shadow, take the time to assist, take
the time to network with other dentistry community and really get to understand their experience
and maybe see if that's something that you'd want to do.
And if it is, really just commit to it.
And everything else will fall into place eventually.
For sure.
And I mean, the transition from high school to college, it's meant to kind of see where
you're at and kind of evolve as you get into college.
Not everyone has that ability to kind of know what they want to do before they head into
a college.
So David and I were more or less kind of lucky in that aspect where we kind of knew more
or less what we wanted to do.
But going into college, I saw it all the time.
People just switched from pre-med to pre-dental or whatever it may be, from business to pre-med
or vice versa.
So you see that evolution happen as you're taking all these classes.
But the whole thing is, as long as you have a passion for it and you're capable of just
pushing through the rigors of the curriculum, nothing should be stopping you at the end
of the day.
A good support system at home really does help.
And having David a year apart really does help.
I just push you through that rigor.
And it's kind of weird that everyone has this expectation to figure it out when you're like
17 or 18 years old.
And even me personally as a freshman, which is like two years ago, but as a freshman, I
went in pre-med just because I knew I wanted to do something science.
And pre-med just seems like the best title to put on that for now, until you figure it
out.
And as you go through college and stuff and you kind of take it upon yourself to explore
other things, that's kind of where I found dentistry as this awesome profession where
you use your hands, your great patient interaction, you see a variety of things, stuff like that.
So that's kind of where I found that through shadowing and eventually assisting.
So what kind of role did shadowing and assisting playing your guys's pursuit of dentistry?
So we actually both did a fellowship.
And this fellowship actually contained a lot of shadowing in terms of different aspects
of dentistry.
So there was the general dentistry portion at a federally qualified health center.
That's pretty much where low income individuals go where they could get their care.
And aside from that, we also were shadowing in specialty offices, you know, your endo,
your ortho.
And that kind of gave us a broad overview of what dentistry was as a profession because
it's not just general dentistry.
It's a whole facet of other, I guess, specialized professions within dentistry.
And it kind of opened us to a realm of various other parts of dentistry, which I really liked.
And that gave me a better understanding of what dentistry was because general dentistry
is only the foundation and then you have your other portions of what dentistry really is.
And aside from that, you know, the volunteering that I mentioned in a local hospital that
really helped just understand the patient-physician relationship and what it's meant to be a provider
in your local community.
So I definitely think shadowing is important, but only to a certain extent.
I think if you get something like a dentistry, something that you're just starting to look
into or you just found out about, it can definitely help you, it can help open your
eyes to what dentistry really is.
But I don't think shadowing is good in the long term.
Say for example, you know dentistry is what you want to do, like you're committed to it,
I would really encourage people to look into assisting instead because as great as shadowing
can be, that's really all you are, your shadow.
And a lot of times it can be kind of hard to see what the dentist is doing, see what's
going on in the procedure.
That's really challenging.
And that's why I felt going into shadowing these various dentists that I have is that
I really didn't get to see all there is to dentistry.
So I would really encourage a lot of people to look into assisting instead once they figure
out that dentistry really is for them.
And that's definitely something I kind of realized as I went on with the shadowing process because
when you're shadowing, you're standing behind the dentist and there's an assistant there
also.
And the mouth is this big.
So there's not much you can see.
If it's a knee surgery, I understand you can see everything you want.
But with the mouth, and especially one tooth, maybe they have like, maybe they're working
on 31 or something.
How are you going to see that unless you're on a certain angle?
So that's kind of where I was like, you know what, I love this, but I want to get in there,
right?
That's the next thing.
So I'm going to go with shadower and then dental assistant and then go to dentist, right?
So I, you know, I, I surraise, you know, this, this is really generous.
That's really, really generous.
And I mean, and also, yeah, it depends.
Like some people have like maybe this, they got, oh, it's crazy.
Yeah, you'll definitely be seeing that.
Yeah.
And so, you know, we go from, you know, shadowing with general dentists to ever just started
working for like a general dentist and dental, we would just implants and all these other
things.
So the way I kind of approached it as I started assisting general with implants and like he
does, he does root canals, crowns, all these different things, but he doesn't do ortho.
He doesn't do like hard, hard corando.
He doesn't do, this is like oral surgery kind of thing.
So I feel like once, you know, a student can get into the, the assisting around the realm,
they can maybe shadow specialties that they don't have at their office, right?
Cause that's kind of, you know, you're not like double dipping.
So I guess that's one way to get around it.
But you know, obviously the beginning want to shadow us the best thing to do.
And then keep going from there.
Sure.
Yeah.
So I mean, you spoke about how you seek a gap here, right?
And I think you got, you got your masters, right?
So I actually, yeah, I got a masters from Rutgers, New York.
So that's where the dental school is Rutgers dental school.
So the masters was in biomedical sciences.
It, you have like a two year timeline, but you could finish it off in a year.
So the program is great in that you could transfer credits from dental school back into
that program at Rutgers.
And that, and that's what I did.
I honestly finished off the program in a year and a half and then did that other, finished
that other semester from dental school and transferred over the credits.
But yeah, the program was, was really great.
You know, I experienced a lot of shadow, shadow, but research that I did within the dental
school actually.
And that's something I actually have never done before research.
So that's something new to me, but I learned a lot in, you know, what research, what research
is.
And I think the masters program really prepared me well for the Rutgers of dental school.
And yeah, looking back at it really helped for sure.
Yeah.
I mean, also you guys took gap here.
So I'm assuming that's what you did in your gap.
You decided to go for a masters, right?
Yeah.
So I just decided to fill in my time just with, with something that will help, you know,
my application stand out.
And I think the research really helped me get where I am today.
For sure.
Yeah.
For me, so my, my gap year was, was kind of interesting.
So like I mentioned, I've changed my major a little bit late in the game.
So because of that, that required me to take an extra semester of undergrad.
So I ended up taking, I was supposed to graduate in May 2019.
But because of that, I had to take the extra semester.
But what ended up happening was I took my DAT that summer in August, you know, did pretty
well, but didn't do too well in reading comprehension.
I got a 15 in reading comprehension and that completely, you know, ruined all the other
scores that I got, unfortunately.
It's pretty much my, you know, biggest fear came true.
And so really that, like that week after I took the DAT was kind of like game time for
me.
You know, I was like, what am I going to do?
What's my next step?
So I ultimately decided that that extra semester, instead of taking it that fall, I'm going to
take it in the spring and I'm going to use that fall to study for the retake of the DAT.
And that's exactly what I did.
I ended up retaking the DAT in December, granted, still got the 15 reading comprehension.
But I ended up deciding to apply either way.
You know, I decided to send out my application that September.
I actually got an interview invite from Toro that following month and then NYU came in a
couple months after that.
So really went to show for myself at least that even though I had that 15 in reading comprehension,
which is arguably a really important section that they look at, just because apparently
there's some correlation with how you do on the boards and reading comprehension.
It really showed me that dental schools genuinely do look at your application from a holistic
point of view because otherwise I wouldn't be in that in this position where I am today.
And I'm really grateful for that factor.
So that's pretty much how I set my gap here.
So one semester studying for the DAT and the other semester finishing up that extra semester
that I needed to for my public health degree.
And that's normality now.
Someone in our comments actually talked about this.
They were like, you guys are figuring out as juniors in college, it doesn't make any sense.
I figured it out when I was 24, like 25.
And that opened my eyes up to the expectation for undergraduates nowadays to get out in like
three, four years, right?
That's the expectation just because that's how it's structured and stuff.
But what is your advice to people who don't want to take gap year, but they feel that
they're considering it just because they feel like it might give them up or edge on their
application?
David, go for this.
Sure.
So I kind of have a love-hate relationship with gap years.
I'll tell you why.
The love aspect of gap years really stems from the fact that it really allows you to
take that year to just do whatever you want because demo school is challenging.
These next four years is an investment.
It's investment not only in your education, but also in your future overall.
So that can be really intimidating for someone that's in their low to mid-20s really doesn't
have a lot of stuff figured out.
So gap years are awesome for people like that that just want to explore, want to do something
aside from sitting down on the desk and just studying all day.
So that's really awesome.
That's really unique part about gap years.
The fact that the average age of entering demo students, incoming D1 students is like
27 or something like that really shows that you're not really behind.
If you take that one year gap year, it's not going to really put you behind everybody else.
It's completely normal.
We actually have a student in our class right now who started off as a lawyer, decided that
wasn't for him.
At the age of 40, decided, hey, you know what?
I'm going to go to demo school.
And so that's exactly what it did.
So it's not too late.
It's not too late.
The hate part of the gap year is that you're already in the flow of things.
You're just finished on a grad.
You already know exactly how tiring studying could be and you just want to get it over with.
Just want to get it done.
So at the end of the day, I really encourage at least one or two years to really take it
to yourself if that's what you want.
But really more than that, you really have to start thinking about the finances in the
future.
And that's something that a lot of dental students and dentists in general really miss
the boat on is the dental business side of it.
So you really have to think, okay, every single year that I don't work as a dentist, I'm losing
on about $150,000 of dental income, give or take.
So after the one or two years, that's really something that people should really start
to consider is really the future.
So that's my perspective.
Yeah.
I'm just going off of that.
Just like David mentioned, there are a lot of functions for what a gap year should be.
And for me, that was just doing the masters and retaking my DAT, kind of like David.
And it gave me some time to really sit down and aside from doing the research, aside from
doing the masters, just really buckle down and get that DAT out of the way.
So I took my DAT three times in total, the first two times I averaged about 18, 19 in
the AA.
And then I got it up to the third time, 20 AA.
And I think that's the score that I was looking for in terms of pairing that up with my master's
GPA and GPA back from college, just to show the admissions office that I'm committed and
this is what I want to do.
But also, aside from just doing school and your regular curriculum, I think you should
take some time to yourself and just kind of explore what you're about and take those
years or so just to kind of visit other countries or do something because you're not going to
have that time in dental school.
The four years in dental school are meant for you to kind of grow your knowledge in that
profession that you're going for.
You're not going to have a lot of time.
So I think taking that year off or two, making the most of it really helps just kind of make
you a more well-rounded person aside from the typical GPA, DAT scores, all the stats.
I think admissions want a real conversation and having something like that, like a trip
or a volunteering trip of some sort, that really goes to show that you're capable of
community service.
You're willing to just be more than a number.
So I feel like gap years take a little bit of stress off of finishing very fast.
And also, it gives you an opportunity to expand your application because you get to do more
things.
You have more time to really hone in on stuff that maybe even your own interests that you
like to do that you can show on application.
I know that Dr. Gallagher, who's, he goes to NYU as well.
You guys probably know him, but he told me that his interview was literally about him
playing the violin because nothing else, just the violin, because that's just what he does
as a hobby.
So, I mean, you can do all these clinical things, but at the end of the day, at that
interview, I guess they want to know who you are, right?
And you guys probably tested that.
So like before we get to the interview, I want to talk a little bit about how do you guys
like formulate your dental spot location?
Like did you, you know, how was a personal statement like, how'd you kind of approach
all these different things and how'd you kind of put all together so that, you know, whatever
you looked at you guys, they're like, yeah, I want those guys in my class.
Right, so for me, the personal statement was an evolution of many edits.
So I had a lot of mentors in terms of, you know, from undergrad.
And then when I went to the masters, I had a couple of mentors there.
So I had a lot of eyes to look at, you know, the personal statement.
And you know, really the second time around when I applied, I really liked, you know,
my personal statement there because I feel like it really put the bow tie in the end
in terms of, you know, the research that I did, you know, the community service, the
shadowing.
So at that point in, you know, in that application cycle, I felt I was just, you know, more prepared.
And I think the personal statement is really meant to highlight all that you did and all
that you are to the admissions office and just, you know, really showcase what you're
about that way when it does come time to interview, you're capable of referring what you wrote
in your personal statement and what's on your resume.
And you know, it really should flow as almost like a conversation, you know, almost as if
you're talking to someone, the personal statement really should be vibrant in that regard.
Where they really, you know, maybe it's a story that you're writing about or maybe it's
an experience that you had.
That way they're engaged because they see so many personal statements at the end of the
day, thousands of applications, you're just one out of so many.
So trying to do your best in making it engaging and interactive as best as you can really
helps.
And application-wise, just I think just having David and having each other, I think we're
able to look at applications from different standpoints and, you know, we have different
experiences growing up.
And I think that really helps get us in the door and get us that interview for sure.
Right.
So kind of what Mark was mentioning, a personal statement really is one of the most, if not
the most important part of your application, because at the end of the day it really tells
the admissions committee who you are as a person.
What makes you you?
Why is it that I should completely put aside all the other personal statements and why
should I just focus on yours?
So a lot of times people, you know, I see a lot of pre-dental students are looking for
that wild factor.
You know, they want to start off that personal statement with something that's like, like
something crazy.
Like I jumped out of the plane, you know, into Cambodia and I went into this dental clinic
and I help, you know, these, you know, you know, individuals there, you know, it's like
they're always looking for something great, which is awesome, which is great.
And it's definitely encouraged.
But at the end of the day, the admissions committee wants to really know who you are
as a person.
And if that's who you are, awesome, stick with it.
So really just your personal statement, you really wanted to embody everything that you
are as a person and everything that you want to commit to as a dentist.
That's really the most important part.
In terms of the other application, this is kind of where knowing, you know, that we wanted
to do dentistry coming into college really helped us out because right out the gate,
we were able to understand that, okay, by the time we start applying to dental schools,
we're going to need letters of recs from professors.
So kind of establishing that relationship with professors early on was really, really
important for us.
And especially in my case, the fact that I applied solely in September, I really tried
to make sure that my entire application was ready to go that way right after I took my
DAT, you know, a week or so after I could send it out.
And so, you know, a lot of these professors, a lot of these dentists are super busy.
So you really want to give yourself enough time to, to, you know, allow them to write
a really solid, you know, a letter of rec for you.
So really just having everything all together, putting everything all together before you
take your DAT or before you're ready to send it out.
That's really the most important part.
So really kind of getting a head start on your personal statement, getting a head start
on requesting those letters of rec, getting a head start on your, you know, DAT and studying
for that.
That's really something that I would encourage for, for pre-dentalists to really look into.
And yeah, just kind of developing those relationships with professors with dentists.
That's super, super important as well.
And kind of like how Mark mentioned, you know, the fact that we had each other to, you know,
glance over our personal statements and our application overall, it really helped because
even though Mark and I are so close and we do literally everything together, we are different
people.
I like to say that Mark's kind of the yin to my yang, you know, the strengths that I
have, he might not, you know, be so strong and vice versa, you know, so we're able to
kind of come in with this different perspective and really help develop our application as
a whole.
And I think that's something that really spoke to a lot of dental schools, specifically NYU,
when they decided to accept this.
Like you said, like, you know, everything, all these things come at you really fast.
Like you got to get your letters out.
You got to ask for your letters.
You got to do your personal statement, you know, find time for your D&T.
So, you know, if you're in the position to understand that you need to do that, you want
to go dentistry early, that's great.
But you know, I guess to the people that, I guess, decide like end of junior year or
junior year or senior year, I guess I would say like, don't panic because there's, there's,
you have, you have as much time as you want, right, because you talked about the gap years.
So for sure.
And I would also say like for letters or recommendations, just to make it easier on yourself, really
go hard on those like science classes so that you can TA for them.
Because if you can become like a TA for certain classes, like I've been able to do like an
Orbo TA or Go2TA.
So, you know, when you're able to TA for a class, you ever like, you can build like
hardcore rapport with your professors and that's just going to make your letters or recommendations
so much easier to get, right?
And even with your dentist, like, you know, if you start shadowing and assisting early
on, then you were building their relationship with them from the beginning.
So then you can just slowly ask them for a letter of recommendation.
They're like, thank God you asked me, like, I'd be offended if you did ask me, right?
So that's like the best part of it.
And so you guys mentioned that and why you kind of saw that in you guys, like you guys
are really, I guess, true on your, on your application.
So when you're applying to schools, how did you consider which ones to apply to?
It was just kind of like a dart on a dart board or you just kind of did some research and
kind of figured out the best fit for you guys.
I think what our approach was really, you know, stick around, you know, not too far
from home, but we applied to as far as the West Coast, maybe out in Utah, honestly, but
you know, just safe schools in the end.
But you know, I think for, for me as, as an applicant, I really, I applied to, I think
10 or so dental schools more or less were on the East Coast for the most part.
And I think just having a good understanding of what, you know, what the dental school is,
what they're about and what you want as a dental student from, you know, from the school.
Because at the end of the day, you're paying a lot of money to get an education in dentistry.
You know, as, as good or bad as that may seem, you know, you've got to make the most of it
at the end and finding that school that fits you, you know, the community there, not only
within the dental school but outside.
What's the dental school, you know, look outside, is it safe?
Is you know, is the environment okay?
And also within the dental school, how are the professors, what's the, you know, teacher
to student ratio?
Do you want that close knit body or do you like a bigger school?
And that really depends on, I guess, where you come from, from undergrad.
Did you go to a big school like David and I did?
You know, Rutgers, the biggest class, you know, all the general, you know, general sciences,
you know, hundreds and hundreds of students in that class.
And I think that's something we were okay with.
And that's why in the end, I think NYU was a good fit because we like that large body.
And now we have over, you know, I'd say 300 colleagues that, you know, we can share the
experience with granted that, you know, we're separated in A and B sections so we don't
know everyone.
But you know, the whole thing is David and I wanted to, you know, meet new people from
different, you know, backgrounds from different places.
And I think NYU in the end brought us that the diversity is there.
And you know, all these students have so many experiences, and that's what kind of, you
know, stuck with us in the end.
And you know, the professors are great.
So you definitely have that experience.
And it's in the end, it's really what you make out of your experience in dental school.
You know, it could be the largest school, but you can make it the smallest based on your
experiences within the program.
And I think David will mention the same thing.
Yeah, for sure.
So I guess for me, I was kind of put into a weird limbo type of state when I was applying
to schools just because, you know, I took my DAT in August on the same cycle that I was
applying to.
Didn't really get the grade that I want.
And you know, once I saw I got that 15 reading comprehension that really just completely took
a hit to my confidence after that.
After speaking with a lot of other friends, you know, who were already in dental school
like some D1s, D2s, things like that, they actually, you know, encouraged me not to apply
this cycle and take that year off and we'll take another year off and apply the following
cycle.
And so I remember vividly we had a trip to Lake George right after my DAT, like literally
right after my DAT, I drove off to Lake George a really long sad drive.
And I was just in my thoughts.
I was speaking with my brother.
I was speaking with, you know, my friends.
And everybody was encouraging me against it except Mark.
Mark really was like, listen, like they, like, you know, you have an awesome application,
you know, albeit, you know, you had that 15 reading comp, everything else looks good.
You can go for it and just try it out.
And I'm really grateful that, you know, Mark gave me that advice because it really kind
of gave me that little push of confidence that I was looking for at the time.
And I decided to only apply to the five schools.
It's the five programs.
And these programs were programs that I thought I could see myself at, also in the East Coast,
somewhat close to home.
But at the same time, someone, you know, some programs that really do look at your application
from holistic point of view.
So I decided to apply to five schools that same year.
And you know, I'm really, really happy that I did because, you know, here we are now.
And you know, had I listened to, you know, my other colleagues, my other peers, you know,
I'm really grateful for them too.
Don't hate to them at all.
You know, I wouldn't be in this position alongside Mark and NYU together right now.
And so I'm really, really happy that I end up going with that.
And so are you guys, are you guys twins?
You guys are brothers, like, what do you think?
We're not twins yet.
We're the popular opinion.
Yeah, we're a year apart.
But everyone decides to think that we're twins just because we're in the, you know, been
doing life together for, for so long, side by side, we're really lucky to have one another.
But you know, at this point, we might as well.
Right.
I feel like we just got to start marketing ourselves as twins now work.
It's actually really funny, Siraj, because every single year, literally without a beat,
yeah, every year on Mark's birthday, I always have people wishing me a happy birthday as
well.
And some of it is a joke.
Other people are like, they actually beat it, and so it is really, really funny.
But it was actually funny.
What's it called this past year on your birthday mark?
I posted something on Instagram, just kind of shouting you out wishing you happy birthday.
Well, I think it was actually on my birthday.
It was my birthday.
Somebody, one of our cousins, wished me a happy birthday.
And I reposted on my story and one of our classmates was like, oh, wait, why does she
only wish you a happy birthday and not Mark?
I was like, no.
So it's really funny how to this day, a lot of people think that we are twins, but it's
awesome.
I think it really is a testament to how close we are and how close we hope to become as future
dentists and just kind of continue to nurture that relationship.
And for everyone that doesn't know, we'll obviously tell our audience, but you guys
have an Instagram page called The Tooth Brothers, which is pretty unique.
When I came to the plan, I was like, I got to talk to these guys.
These guys look like you're doing.
They look cool.
So when you guys went to your interviews, did you, did you guys talk about how you guys
are brothers?
You guys are playing the same cycle and that my brother is like, Lily, probably the next
room over me.
Yeah.
So I'm gonna go ahead.
David, go ahead.
I think you have the better story.
Yeah.
It's kind of funny.
So Mark was interviewed, I believe it was beginning, was it end of January or beginning
of February?
I think the beginning of February.
Beginning of February.
I interviewed that Friday and I literally got an interview invite the day before your
interview.
And I remember I was like, all right, I'm just thinking the next day and happens to be that
following Monday.
So they got a nice dose of Mark that Friday and then they got another dose of another
brother that following Monday.
And so at least for me, when I went into my interview, I already knew that Mark interviewed,
they already got a chance to meet him.
And I was like, you know what, I got to like throw it in somehow.
I got to throw it in somehow that, you know, my brother also.
Also apply that he actually just interviewed literally two days ago.
And that's what I did.
So the way NYU has its interviews, you walk into a room and the first interview, it's
two interviews.
The first interview was by, you know, by faculty member.
So for me, I believe it was an oral surgeon that interviewed me.
And then the second interview is someone on admissions committee who really just kind
of wants to get to know you a little bit better and also just see if you're comfortable, you
know, moving to the city and going to score a city and being at NYU and kind of just getting
your headspace on that.
And so for me, my first interview, I actually walked out of that interview saying there's
no chance I'm getting into NYU.
There's no shot because everyone before that was like, yeah, man, you know, it's really
conversational.
Like you're going to be completely fine.
It's all good.
And I'm the type of guy that like I vibe off of other people's energy.
You know, all of the energy that they give me is what I give.
And so right out the jump, like this, you know, my interviewer just like question, answer,
question, answer, question.
And I hate that.
I'm a really great conversationalist, but when you're just throwing questions and I'm
expected to answer it, I just start sweating.
I start like, you know, tapping my foot nervously.
I walked out of the interview.
Like there's no way I'm getting in.
There's no way.
And then that second interview with the admissions committee was much, much better.
It was much, you know, a lot more chill.
And that's where I mentioned that, you know, my brother Mark Obive, he actually interviewed,
you know, this has Friday.
And you know, I remember the interviewer going, oh, it'd be so nice to have you guys both
here and I'm like, yeah, where is that acceptance?
I was like, please.
So, so now it's a really funny moment.
But, but yeah, I think they really liked the fact that, you know, Mark and I were, were
committed to it together.
And I think it really showed, we were able to showcase our love and passion, not only
for dentistry, but also for NYU, you know, to the, to the committee.
And they really loved them.
They, it really spoke to them.
And it led to us getting acceptance literally back to back, you know, a month later.
For sure.
Yeah.
It's insane how that whole interview process worked out where it was within a week, you
know, we, we got that, you know, interview invite.
But yeah, I mean, both my interviews were, I think, general dentists and they were both
chill, both good dialogue.
First one, you know, I really had a great conversation.
I really bonded with her and just had a great conversation.
They're just getting to know her and likewise she was getting to know me as an applicant.
And yeah, we, I left out that, you know, I left that room just smiling just because
I knew, you know, you know, we had that connection and was able to run with it.
Yeah.
Just, you know, wherever you can, you know, just try to, try to be yourself and, you know,
don't sweat it as much, you know, because everything in the end will work out the way
it's supposed to.
You know, I worked, I actually went into the interview with a flat tire, believe it or
not.
So I, I didn't, I didn't make it, you know, on time more or less, but I was able to joke
around with, with everyone there and they understood, you know, life happens and was
able to make the most of it.
But yeah, interesting experience, but nonetheless, glad everything worked out for David and
I within a month or so, you know, it was great.
Yeah.
I mean, so what kind of, what kind of questions did they end up asking you guys?
Like, what kind of conversations did you guys have?
Did you guys have conversations, you know, based on your personal statement or was it
kind of just like on who you are or what they're doing, interest, stuff like that?
So pretty much, yeah, based on more or less you as a person and then what your experiences
were like.
So I spoke a lot about, you know, the research that I did in my masters, just because it
was dental related and we were both able to kind of connect over that and just experiences,
you know, shadowing.
A lot of it was just very general basic questions and it was just them wanting to get to know
you a little more.
And it's pretty much up to you where you take that conversation.
So it could be, you know, a short interview and just as great or it could be a pretty
long interview and, you know, you feel good about the connection that you've established
with the interviewer.
And in the end, for me, I like to, you know, have a good conversation just to get to know
the person better.
And that's what I ended up doing, you know, we had, you know, 10, 15 minute conversation
on just, you know, me as an applicant and she actually graduated from NYU as well.
So that was kind of interesting.
So I got to ask her a couple of questions about her experience in dental school here
at NYU.
But yeah, it was, it was pretty, pretty simple and nothing to sweat.
Nothing to sweat.
So contrary to Mark, I sweated a lot on my interview.
So I wish I had the same experience with Mark, but, but I didn't unfortunately, which is
fine, you know, it's great, you know, if anything, I don't look at these moments of kind of like
hardship or, or these obstacles that are thrown at me as, you know, as such, I look at them
as opportunity to learn and to grow and really just develop, you know, continue developing
myself as a person.
So that my interview experience was kind of like I mentioned earlier, was a lot more
straightforward in the sense of question and answer, right out the, you know, throughout
the entire process.
Some of the questions that I was asked was, you know, why dentistry, why NYU?
So those typical questions that, you know, you're, you're expecting from an interview.
And then my interview, my interviewer got into a little bit more of the specifics about me
and my application.
And she asked, you know, she addressed my 15 reading comprehension.
So really like my best advice a lot of, you know, applicants, if they're really worried
about their interview, just have, you know, a good plan laid out as to how you're going
to approach, you know, those negatives or downfalls in your application.
At the end of the day, they're not really negatives.
You know, they shouldn't really be looked at as negatives because listen, you're in
an interview, you've got interview, they already like what they see on paper.
Just explain yourself and be honest with them and just show that you're capable of growing
and improving yourself.
So I had to address that and then I was also asked a ethical dilemma question.
So you know, she pretty much asked me, you know, what's the ethical dilemma that you
were involved in and how did you go about approaching it?
And I know a lot of people like to kind of, you know, joke about, joke around with that
question and just use this, you know, classic, oh, like, you know, I saw somebody cheating
and this and that, like that's really, really normal.
But I'd encourage people to kind of think a little bit outside the box and don't feel
the need that you need to answer the question like immediately.
Take time to think because if anything, it shows an interviewer that you really care
about this question and you care about the interview as a whole.
And so it just really kind of shows them that you are an individual that listens but is
also able to develop your thoughts and then after that, you know, be able to share them.
So I think, you know, if you do poorly on a DAT section, you might not have as much
clinical experience as they would like, I don't know.
You know, them giving you an opportunity to talk about it, I feel like that's a leg up,
right?
Because you don't want, I feel like you'd almost want it to be addressed like the application
right so you can, you have a chance to defend yourself in a situation right.
So I think it's the eloquent in the room.
Yeah, they're not trying to like get you, they're just trying to understand, you know,
because I don't know if on the application, you can't really explain why you maybe got
a low score or something, right?
So no, I really think that being able to do it face to face might be a lot better.
So did you guys have any interviews anywhere else or did you guys face any other questions
that you kind of were like, dang, that's a tough one?
So yeah, I had an interview out in Utah actually of all places, out in Roseman College or Roseman
University.
So they're a newer dental school out in Utah.
And it was a pretty much full day thing where they had presentations set for us in the morning
and then in the afternoon, pretty much we had a break, eat and then it was interview time.
So we had one interview and there was one faculty member with two students in the same
room as you and there were six other applicants pretty much interviewed at the same time,
you know, at each session.
And that interview was a little bit more nerve wracking in a sense because you had three
people in the room asking you, you know, questions and trying to get to know you a little better.
But you know, again, just be yourself, you know, be honest with what you have on the
application because in the end, you know, everything you have on the application is
what they know about you.
They just want to know, you know, they want to know it from your perspective and they
want to hear your story.
And I think, you know, once you do that, once they see through, you know, the words on paper,
they're capable of connecting with you on another level where you want, you know, where
you want them to be.
You want them to be in a place where they're comfortable with you that way they see you
in their dental school because you're pitching yourself at the end of the day.
This is a business interview, you know, as much as they're pitching, you know, us, you
know, their dental school, we're pitching, you know, ourselves to them.
And that's what it should be.
But aside from the pitch, you know, it should be more personable and it should be relatable.
You know, we're all humans, we all make mistakes and that's maybe something that you want to
highlight, you know, something in your experience where, you know, you made a mistake or, you
know, you did something and you overcame it.
That's at the end, you know, what they want to hear.
They want to hear that you have grit, that you have perseverance and you're able to get
through our challenges because that's what dental school is.
It's a four year challenge each year with its own challenges.
But yeah.
Right, right.
And yeah, kind of like what Mark was mentioning, like the challenges really shouldn't be setting
you back.
It's what really makes you unique, what makes you you.
And at the end of the day, if you're able to overcome a little, really the smallest
of challenges, it really goes away and it shows them that you are capable of really
overcoming anything.
So for myself, I also had the opportunity to interview with Toro.
They were my first interview.
So I got the invite in October and I interviewed with them in January.
So by then they, you know, it was already after decision day.
A lot of people already accepted their offers.
So it was a little bit nerve-wracking, but my Toro interview, I actually loved.
You know, it was a really great experience.
They also kind of made it into this whole, you know, day where you got a chance to tour
the school, you speak to some students, you know, ate some food, which is great.
Because what also just in general, the interviewer was really, really nice.
He was really personable.
And that interview, that entire interview was just a conversation.
You know, I think we started off with my experience being in a fraternity.
I think he said, oh, like you're in a fraternity.
Like that's actually really impressive, the fact that you were able to manage, you know,
your social life alongside your academics.
And he, you know, he started talking about his side was also in a fraternity, was actually
the same fraternity as I was.
So kind of like, you know, you were able to relate to it a lot of times.
Yeah, so it was awesome.
And yeah, it was just a really, really nice conversation.
And I actually, you know, walked out of the interview saying, okay, I can see myself going
here.
You know, at first I was like, I was really gung-ho about NYU.
I loved NYU.
I knew I wanted to be there.
But after my experience with Toro, it really kind of opened my eyes that, okay, maybe there
is another school that could potentially be for me.
I ended up getting a deferred acceptance from Toro.
So that's why I decided to go with NYU at the end of the day, just because, you know,
they just give me an acceptance into their incoming class.
But at the end of the day, I'm really, really happy with my decision.
And yeah, never looked back since.
Is a deferred exception just basically like a semester later that you would join it?
So no, not necessarily.
Pretty much what that meant was they wanted me, and I guess it has to do with the fact
that I got the 15 in really comprehension, you know, twice at that point.
What they wanted me to do with that deferred acceptance was I would have to take a couple
extra more science classes at the University of Maine, I think they wanted me to go to,
which was really, really specific.
If I think it was online at that point too, so whatever.
And then they wanted me to retake my DAT again.
I just kind of developed my application, but it pretty much meant that like, hey, you have
a spot, you have a seat in our next class.
So instead of being in the class of 2024 like I am now, I would have been in their class
of 2025, which, you know, obviously is, you know, a great fallback.
But my goal, my mindset, like now that I knew I had these interviews behind me, they know
who I am as a person.
I knew that I wanted to get into school that cycle.
And I was committed to that.
I stayed, I shooted that.
And I, you know, made sure that that was going to happen.
You know, that fallback was not an option.
And you know, thankfully it worked out.
Yeah, that's great to hear.
So once you guys got these interviews out the way, what was the next step?
Like, did you guys go to orientation for NYU the next fall or yeah, so what was kind of
the process after you got done with interviews?
So once I, you know, I finished interviews, I think the next step was just sending out
thank you emails to, you know, the people I met, the interviewers specifically, just
to kind of give them a feel for how I felt about the program and just thanking them for
their time.
And then the next day, you know, they went about, you know, you know, booking their whole
day just for interviews.
And I think admissions offices love to see that.
I think they leave that in your, you know, application folder or whatever it is.
And just showing them some gratitude at the end of the day and, you know, saying, you
know, you know, I really like the school or whatever it is.
And you know, I really want to go here or whatever it may be.
I think a lot of schools want to see that you're committed to the school.
And I think they base off their decision, their, you know, your acceptance at the end
of the day based on that, you know, if you're committed to the school, they know that, you
know, there's a good chance of you going there.
And you're not going to be, you know, sticking around for other interviews and, you know,
waiting for other decisions from other schools.
And I think for a lot of schools, you know, as big as NYU, I think they like to see that.
And aside from the thank you emails, I think the next step was really just, you know, just
waiting it out.
And then, you know, for me, it was finishing off my masters.
And yeah, I think, you know, just it's a waiting game at the end, you know, you did so much,
you prepared so, so much.
And I think you just got to hope for the best.
And, you know, sometimes you have to send many emails other than the thank yous and
just give them a taste of how you feel about the program and your, you know, commitment
to the school pretty much.
Siraj was a question after you get the acceptance or yes, I mean, like after you got interviewed
and stuff, like what was the next steps after that?
So, oh, there, right, right.
Yeah, so exactly.
Mark kind of hit the nail on that one.
Really just sending out those thank you emails is super, super important.
I know NYU, they sent us an email after the interview that has the contact information
of those that we, of the people that we spoke with, which is really, really helpful in terms
of, you know, following up with that.
So that was really important.
And I had the idea at the end of the day, and especially, like, you know, I know this
speaks, this whole super NYU specifically, they really want to see that you're committed
to them.
You know, they want to see that, like, listen, should I get the acceptance on 100% without
it, that we're going to be going to your school?
Because at the end of the day, they don't want to waste their time.
They're also really busy.
They're, you know, splitting through thousands of applications, and they're not going to
give the acceptance to somebody who, you know, is like very laissez-faire in their approach
to the interview and in their application thereafter.
And they really, they'd rather give, you know, the acceptance to somebody who, say, for example,
has a 15 in the reading comprehension section, and is committed to NYU versus somebody who
has a 24 in the reading comprehension section and isn't committed.
You know, they'd much rather look into that.
So right after the interview, I would highly, highly recommend, you know, students to continue
to follow up with them every couple of weeks, give them a phone call, you know, send them,
send out an email, update them with what's going on since you last interviewed, since
you last spoke with them.
What are you doing to prepare yourself for dental school or prepare yourself for their
program specifically?
Maybe continue the conversation with, you know, the interviewers that you spoke about.
Like, say, for example, you spoke about research with one of the interviewers, continue that
conversation, you know, see what it is that they're doing at the school.
So really just show interest.
And I think that's really why at the end of the day, I was able to get that acceptance,
even though I had that big blunder of my application, they really saw that I was committed to them.
And I think the day that I got it, my acceptance, I actually got a phone call from the director
of admissions, Dr. Nahia, and she was like, listen, like, you know, we really like what
we see.
We just want to know, are you good to come to NYU?
Are you committed to us?
And I said, listen, I'm committed, send out that acceptance letter, I'll send out the
$5,000 deposit that next day.
I got it.
You got my heart, you got my soul.
I'm all about NYU.
But on my purple sweater after that, good to go.
So that's really what they want to see.
That's really what they want to see.
And I'm sure that speaks true to a lot of other schools as well.
They just want to know that you're committed.
So sending out those follow-up emails is really, really important.
I think at the end of the day, it's kind of like, you got to think about how the schools,
they want to accept people that are actually going to come to the school right.
If you accept somebody who has maybe 10 other acceptance, this is a very low chance they
come to your school.
They explicitly said that that's a school they want to go to.
So I guess advice is to tell your students who finish an interview process, just keep
on reaching out to them and kind of make yourself known to them, I guess.
Because the more that they remember your name, the more that you'll have better chance of
getting.
So that's the name of the game.
So what were your expectations going into your Dean one year at NYU?
And kind of how did you, were those expectations met and what was your experience like?
I think Dean one was a crazy adjustment.
I think it was not what I expected in terms of just the rigors of the curriculum.
It was a lot more than honestly the master's program that I went to over at Rutgers.
There's I think 20 plus credits that you're taking that first semester.
And they really, I mean, this was also during COVID.
So everything was more or less online.
So what he did in terms of curriculum, they pushed all their didactic work, all the courses
into the first and second years.
That way we have more time in clinic when it comes to T3D4.
You know, and I think, you know, I mean, this past semester, I think we took maybe over
25, 30 credits just of hard didactic courses.
So they really stuff it in, you know, the first couple of years.
And I think later half of T3D4, you're more or less smooth sailing.
You know, it's a crazy adjustment, but you have to, you know, time manage your, you know,
your time and, you know, your schedule because you're, you know, between rotating and studying
for classes, going to lectures or whatever, you know, it's a huge adjustment.
And maybe you're not used to it.
Maybe you're coming in from a gap here or whatever it may be.
And you know, I think looking back at it now, you know, the spring semester of D1, excuse
me, I think you're able to, you're able to look back and just make those kind of, you
know, adjustments in terms of time management and see what works, see what doesn't in terms
of studying.
So I think, I think you're, you know, able to move on and just continue grinding out
all those hours of, you know, didactics for sure.
Yeah.
So for, I think it was the week that we got accepted, Mark, that COVID really hit the
fan when that's when the shutdown happened.
So I think it was, it came as a surprise to us and also the school as well, because they
had no idea how to approach it.
Obviously, everything was completely new.
There really was no former policy or guidance, you know, in place.
So our orientation was a lot different from the past years in that it was completely online.
So it was two days of, you know, full day Zoom lectures and calls and stuff like that.
So it definitely was a completely different experience than what we expected going into
it.
But I think, you know, again, it's fine.
You know, it happens, you know, this type of stuff you can't prepare for and you just
kind of have to approach it, you know, with a small interface and, you know, in terms
of the experience that we got our first year, it really wasn't the best.
I'll be honest with you.
We were mainly online, as Mark said, I think in the fall.
So we start in the summer.
We started like, I think, July, beginning of July with our classes or with our didactics.
So typically we would already be in the lab, we would already get our hands dirty.
We would already start playing around with the drill and wax ups, things like that.
But that didn't start for us until the fall.
And even then, I believe under normal circumstances, D1s at NYU would have on average anywhere
from like six to nine hours every single week of being in school, you know, working with
their hands.
But for us, we only had three hours a week.
We were only coming in once a week, you know, I believe from like six to nine.
And that's really where we were able to kind of get our practice in.
And it did kind of hurt us, I feel like, in terms of our experience and also just being
able to be getting stuff over, we're comfortable working with our hands.
But that adjustment is really, really quick.
You know, at the end of the day, like by the time we were in D2, we were already in the
lab a couple, you know, a lot more, and we're able to play around with the drill a lot more.
And by the time now that we're in D3, we're actually in the clinic, we're actually working
on real patients, at least for me personally, I feel very comfortable working, you know,
with the drill, working with the handpiece.
I just do a lot of the procedures that we learned about, you know, our first two years.
So the beginning was kind of a little bit rough.
I'll be honest, because on top of that, you're also learning how to manage your time best
with studying and stuff like that.
So the courses that they throw at you the first year are very, very heavy science-based.
And it's kind of like a repeat of all of undergrad just happened into one semester.
So it could be a little bit challenging, but I think, again, you just have to be able to
adjust yourself, adjust your schedule, and understand that there's going to be situations
that are thrown at you in life that you're not going to be prepared for, but it really
is your reaction and your response to them that really shows who you are as a person
and the type of person that you'll become as a dentist and a future practitioner.
So that they really feel like it helped develop us as people.
And honestly, I'm really grateful for the opportunity and really grateful for that experience.
Yeah, I mean, that's a major setback to get accepted and then just COVID just hit everything
since the wall.
And now you just lapse your muscle face.
Now you're just at home.
Just like, what are you supposed to do as an adult student?
But I guess you're making the best out of it.
And so did you guys get any more clinical stuff?
You said D2 to D3 or maybe?
Right?
Yeah.
So you worked on patients already.
So how was that first experience like going from a dummy to maybe an actual person?
I think it really hits you when a patient calls you doctor.
I think it's like, wow, you're in all these courses and now people are starting to call
you doctor.
And I'm like, no, no, no, I'm not a doctor yet.
I'm still a student dentist.
But it's an amazing feeling where someone can trust you from the get go without even
knowing you.
People just see that you're here to provide the help that they're there for.
And all those hours of just studying and preparing for this moment, it's a blessing.
But I think having the experiences in clinic really prepare you and especially in pre-clinic
where pretty much you're playing around with that drill, you're getting your hand motions
right.
And you see that and it really translates into the clinic where you're working on the
patient population.
And the first experience that I had was I fixed a class four.
It was a porcelain veneer and I had faculty come over and they really loved what I had
done.
And those little small moments are what push you to be your best and continue pushing for
better.
And it really just helped me brighten my perspective on what that dentistry is because it's really
all experiences that you have and that you're culminating over the years.
It's at these moments where you're able to continue to push forward and push for the
best because there are no limits in any industry for the best.
And in dentistry, that's just another case where you get to see that.
And I think just continuing to push yourself, continuing to learn from the faculty on the
clinic floor and working side by side with them just to provide that excellent patient
doctor experience for sure.
All right.
Yeah.
So the transition could definitely be a lot.
Working with mannequins, working with dummies, you're kind of a little bit careless or you
really don't care as much.
So going into clinic, I think it was really, really interesting because now, like Mark said,
this is a real person.
This is a live person who's entrusting you with their dental care and their oral health.
And so it really kind of just puts into perspective.
And my first experience, it definitely is a little bit nerve wracking, the hands shaking
a little bit, the sweat is dripping down your face.
But at the end of the day, you really become a lot more confident and knowing that these
last two years, you've learned everything that got you to this point and you just got
to trust and believe in yourself.
And a lot of times, you have your faculty there by your side, helping you out, walking
you through.
And people like they're there for you, they make themselves available to you.
So I think it makes it a lot easier knowing that you have a support system.
And NYU has a really unique thing that they do in that they pair up a D4 and D3 student.
So in the beginning, you're kind of like the assistant as a D3.
And as time goes on, they entrust you with more procedures and with more patient care.
And so that's kind of where we're at right now, where we've already been doing a lot
of restorations, we've been doing a lot of cleanings, a lot of scaling and replanings,
pretty much like feed cleanings, a lot of like composite work.
So it all prepares us into this next semester that we're going into now, where now we're
going to be able to be exposed to literally any procedure.
So I really think even though it is a little bit nerve wracking going into it, it really
does prepare you and you'll be, you'll be good.
And I think a really important difference that I noted too, was that the teeth that
we're working on in pre-clinic, the plastic teeth are much more difficult to work on than
real teeth.
So I think that was really, really nice knowing that the drill is a lot more, you know, cuts
a lot more smoothly in real-build teeth and the teeth aren't as tight as it is in the
mannequin.
So just believe in your ability, believe in everything that you've learned these last
two years and everything will work.
Yeah.
I mean, I also want to ask like, M.W. is a reputation of being a really large school, right?
Like, you said 300 people in your class?
About?
Yeah.
So I mean, like, does that, do you find as a hindrance or does that kind of actually
increase collaboration amongst you guys and kind of, you know, made you guys a big family?
Yeah.
I think you're going to find having friends in a big, you know, school environment is
really important because, you know, without them, you know, you're not going to really,
you're not going to have the experience, the whole comprehensive experience, which is dental
school, you know?
I think those people are meant to, you know, help you, you know, and further you in, you
know, just graduating at the end of the day.
And I think looking back at it, looking at it right now, you know, having friends really
helps you through the lows and the highs.
And you definitely need that support system while you're in dental school because they're
going to be the ones cheering you on.
They're going to be the ones, you know, talking, you know, with you about, you know, that bad
grade or, you know, that retake that you had to do.
So, you know, having a good support system in dental school is really important.
And you know, David and I are glad to have that, you know, in NYU, you know, you're
able to find so many personalities and make friends with literally anyone.
It's just up to you at the end of the day.
Yeah, that's kind of the special part about going into a profession that we're in, you
know, dentistry kind of requires the individual to be very social and very personable.
And so you take, you know, 300 plus of these personalities and these types of characters
and put them all under one roof.
And it's honestly makes for a really, really nice big family.
I know a lot of people, they get intimidated knowing that there's such a big class and
there's not as great of a faculty student, you know, dynamic, but NYU really makes it
work in the sense that there's a lot of TAs that they have, there's a lot of faculty that,
you know, they call upon.
So I never personally really felt that and kind of as we mentioned earlier, it really
is what you make of it.
You know, you could be as in the faculty space as you like, or you could be as quiet as you
like.
So if you're really looking for that, that more one-on-one interaction, it's there for
you.
And so I personally love it.
I love being able to meet so many different people.
I love getting to hear other people's stories and, you know, their backgrounds, where they
came from, what they want to do.
And it also helps, you know, Mark and I kind of determine how we want to be as dentists
in the future because there's so many incredible people at NYU and so many incredible classmates
that we're able to relate to.
And at the end of the day, we're just kind of their balancing ideas all of one another.
And also just really grateful for, you know, the close friends that we've developed in
dental school, you know, and really grateful that NYU really brought us all together.
That's kind of reassuring, right?
Because I didn't really think about having, you know, I feel like, because Stony Brook
has like, I think it's like 40 students in their class.
This is very small, right?
Very, very small.
And that's how like my college is too.
So, you know, maybe me going to NYU or something like that, a larger class has actually initiated
more collaboration, you might even learn more just because you have more people to talk
to and more experiences to draw upon, I guess.
That's kind of how I guess you approach that.
So, you know, finishing off here, what are you guys' goals for the future?
Like, where do you guys see yourself in maybe two or three years specializing maybe?
Yeah, what are your thoughts on that?
I think, you know, being in dental school for close to three years already, I think it gives
you a good perspective on what you want to do.
You know, the first two years are meant for rotating and even now we're still rotating
between various specialty clinics.
And I think just thinking about it, I think, you know, once we graduate, we're definitely
going to do the GPR, which isn't a requirement in most states, but I think it is a requirement
in New York and Delaware states.
But it's all about the experience at the end of the day.
Rotating in a hospital is going to give you certain experiences that you won't have in
general clinic.
And making the most of it in those experiences, I think, really gives you a well-rounded experience
within dentistry as a whole.
But I think looking forward, I think I'm just more interested in aesthetic side of dentistry
just because there's a lot of, you know, there's symmetry and, you know, the way the smile
looks from the outside, you're able to compare and just, you know, be an artist at the end
of the day.
You're a dental architect.
And you know, from the gums all the way to the teeth, you know, and that's what really
gets me going.
So it's really interesting when I look at dentistry.
Yeah, so a lot of people, I guess, when they find out that we're both going to dentistry,
they, you know, right away assume that, you know, maybe one of them is going to be a dental
dentist and the other one's going to go into specialty just kind of like brought in their
horizons in a way.
But I think kind of how Mark mentioned these past three years, we've kind of got to rotate
through different specialty clinics.
We've got to experience what it is like to be this specific specialty or this specific
dentist.
And I think we both kind of fell in love with the general side of dentistry and the fact
that we're able to do so many different procedures and we're pretty much are able to kind of
help direct and individual or oral health from a general standpoint.
And so a lot of times with specialists, they're more so focused on their specific specialty.
So periodontists are only looking at your gums and dough, they're only looking at your
root canals and your and your pulp.
So for us, we both really like having that general overview.
And kind of how Mark was talking about aesthetics, aesthetics is really, really unique in the
sense that you're really able to have such a huge impact on a person's life.
You're able to increase their confidence level, you're able to make them smile again, you're
able to make them shave that mustache off, you know, just because they were using that
to hide their smile.
So seeing that impact and seeing that reaction from people, it's really, really inspiring
and it really kind of helps push you forward and kind of reach for more and do better.
It's really kind of honing in on your craft and kind of how Mark was mentioning, we're
an artist, you know, we're really our artists and that's really what dentistry encapsulates.
It really is, you know, your practitioner, your businessman, your artist, your architect,
your engineer, you're all these different professions combined.
So one nice little package that is dentistry and being able to have that impact on a person's
life is just super, super gratifying and something that I'm grateful for and I'm starting to
see while I'm working with my patients in the clinic and hopefully to many more to come.
That's awesome.
It's kind of like your full circle moment for you guys.
I mean, I'm sure you guys are going to do great things in the future.
I have no doubt about it.
Thank you.
Oh, it's great.
Thank you.
So, one more question, how'd you guys start up your social media presence?
I feel like I want to ask you, like, what inspired you guys to start up Toothbrows and
what kind of, is it just like you guys want to help other people or is it just kind of
like you guys want to document your story?
I think more or less it's a bit of both.
You know, we wanted to be there for, you know, pre-dental students the way, you know, other
dental students have been there for us.
I think our page serves as motivation for pre-dental students and dental students alike.
It's meant to foster, you know, a sense of collaboration and just be there for one another.
I think what's really nice about dentistry is we really have a large community within,
you know, the states and also abroad.
Everyone is so friendly to kind of share their experiences and, you know, the knowledge
that they have and I think that's what we're meant to do.
You know, we're meant to foster that sense of community and that sense of knowledge,
you know, across wherever, you know, you may be in, you know, your dentistry life, I guess,
whether it be in pre-dental or dental or already, you know, dentist.
And that's something that we wanted to do as well as just document where we are in
our evolution of, you know, becoming dentists because, you know, we've worked so hard to
get to this point.
A lot of hours have been put, you know, from us and, you know, also our parents are, you
know, to thank.
But we just want to share what we know and also, you know, kind of intake, you know,
from other dental accounts because they're just as important.
They share just as much information as we do because everyone has their own experiences
to share and everyone is unique in their own way.
So that's, I think, what we're meant here, you know, just to kind of give and take more
or less.
Right, right.
So tooth bros is honestly something that kind of has evolved into what it is today in the
sense of we started off really with the intention of just documenting our journey and sharing
our story as brothers and dentistry.
And now it's kind of evolved into this nice, close to the community.
And, you know, we get a lot of messages from a lot of our followers a lot of times that
really, you know, shared their appreciation for, you know, the content that we're putting
out.
And that really kind of pushes us to keep on doing and being better, you know, as all
the people that, you know, are following along on the ride.
And as much as it is, you know, for us, Mark and I are the type of people where we're super,
super grateful for where we are today and the position that we are today.
And we just want to be able to give back and to, you know, have that ability through social
media through Instagram.
It's really, really unique.
And at the end of the day, like as Mark was mentioning, we've had a lot of great people
that kind of guided us, held our hand throughout the process.
And we want to be that source of inspiration for others as well.
And a lot of times, I don't know if, you know, you could relate to this mark, I think you
can.
But for me, you know, going into dentistry, a lot of times I didn't know if I was good
enough.
I didn't know if I had what it takes to become a dentist or to get through dental school and
to get through all these, you know, the rigorous of the curriculum, like it's really, really
challenging.
And a lot of times I was doubting myself, you know, every time I got that bad grade
or that bad result or, you know, something didn't work out the way that I wanted it to,
I would always find myself questioning, you know, my abilities.
And so I feel like a lot of people are in a similar boat.
And just to be able to share my story and Mark's story as well, it kind of combined
it into one package that is tooth bros.
I think it really is inspiring to a lot of people and if we're able to just impact even
just one person, you know, that means the world to us.
And you know, hopefully we'll be able to have that impact on a much larger scale in the future.
I love that positive energy behind it.
I mean, honestly, like when I looked at your guys' page, I was like, these guys are not
doing it for like the image or anything, they're doing it because they actually, they definitely
have a story behind them and they just want to share it and help other people, right?
So that's kind of why I want you guys to have, why I want to have you guys on.
I think that's, I can't wait to share the story to our platform and beyond.
So that's going to conclude our, this episode of Dose of the Podcast.
Thank you Mark and David for joining me and showing your experiences.
Your insight was definitely valuable and I hope that'll be the same for our pre-down
listeners.
Everyone, please feel free to reach out at Mark and David at their socials if you have
any further questions.
Lastly, I think everyone for listening, if you enjoyed today's episode, please be sure
to follow us on Instagram and Spotify.
We'll see you next time for another Dose of the Knowledge.