1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:23,520 Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Dostodonal podcast with your host myself, 2 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:24,520 Siraj Shah. 3 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,120 The focus of this podcast is your undergraduate dental school experiences from dental students 4 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,760 and dental professionals through valuable discussions. 5 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,880 We hope that through these discussions we can inspire and provide answers to your questions 6 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:36,560 or challenges you may face on your own pre-dental journey. 7 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,960 We are beyond excited to have Dr. Diana Kim as our guest today. 8 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:45,520 Dr. Kim graduated from North Eastern University in 2017 with her bachelor's degree in biology 9 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,000 and a minor in health science and recently received her doctorate of dental surgery degree 10 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,240 from Soderbergh University School of Dental Medicine. 11 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:55,240 In her undergraduate year she was the founder of her university's global medical brigade 12 00:00:55,240 --> 00:01:00,440 chapter, the artistic director for an on-campus dance troupe called Kinematics and was a laboratory 13 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,040 administrator and patient coordinator with a dental implant company named Bicon Dental 14 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:05,040 Implants. 15 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,680 In dental school Dr. Kim was an associate member on the national level for the American 16 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:09,680 Student Dental Association. 17 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,680 She was the president of the Academy of Dental Dentistry and was a student representative 18 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,440 for the Dental School's alumni board. 19 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,080 Dr. Kim has been honored as a scholarship recipient for the Dental Tree Alliance Foundation 20 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,680 in 2020 and for the peer for Shah Art Academy in 2021. 21 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,880 Dr. Kim is now competing in general practice residency at Philadelphia VA Medical Center 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:27,880 in Pennsylvania. 23 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,360 Dr. Kim, we're so excited to have you join us on the podcast. 24 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,680 How are you doing and how is this already a residency between you? 25 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:34,680 Yes, hi. 26 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:36,680 Thank you so much for the wonderful introduction. 27 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:37,680 I love that. 28 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,040 I'm very excited to be here. 29 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,000 In terms of residency, it's definitely an adjustment, right? 30 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:49,800 So I just finished my, I believe, six through seventh week and it's very different from 31 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:56,240 dental school and it's definitely the real world dentistry that I feel like a lot of 32 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:01,440 dental students kind of don't get experience with because in dental school, everyone is 33 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,800 so focused on being a perfectionist, right? 34 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,840 Like you're measuring millimeters, everything like that. 35 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:09,000 And I think there's so much more to dentistry. 36 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:13,480 So I'm going to say that it's just been an adjustment for sure and just kind of using 37 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:18,520 this month to figure out the groove of things and you know how I plan on practicing. 38 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,320 Yeah. 39 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,560 So again, welcome to the podcast. 40 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:24,720 So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, like where you're from, like where 41 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,600 you grew up so our audience gets a better understanding of like who you are. 42 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:28,600 Sure, absolutely. 43 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:30,200 So I grew up in Brooklyn, New York. 44 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:35,440 I went to high school in Brooklyn Tech, the biggest high school in the U.S., I believe. 45 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,680 So that's kind of my background. 46 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:43,080 Like you mentioned, I went to Boston at Northeastern University and you know, I think something 47 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,240 that's important to me is kind of the extracurricular activities and things like that. 48 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:52,280 I don't think that I was necessarily like a strong academic applicant, but I feel like 49 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,680 all of those things combined kind of got me to where I am right now. 50 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:58,720 Other than that, I love to dance. 51 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:05,720 So that's kind of been my de-stress method throughout college, dental school and whatnot. 52 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:07,720 And I'm really big on like mentoring as well. 53 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,720 That's something that I'm really passionate about as well. 54 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:10,720 Awesome. 55 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:11,720 Yes. 56 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:12,720 I mean, that sounds amazing. 57 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,520 I cannot wait to, you know, dive into all these aspects of who you are and you know, 58 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,280 your journey and all these things. 59 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,360 But first, you know, I got to ask you the question, you know, every dental student and 60 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,560 dental professional has like the reason for why they, you know, chose to pursue this field. 61 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,680 So I was wondering, you know, what is your why? 62 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:33,120 What ignited that spark in you and motivated you to get you, you know, where you are today? 63 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:34,120 Yeah, sure. 64 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:41,000 So I actually started at Northeastern University as a physical therapy major and my family has 65 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,720 a couple of friends who are dentists and I always kind of admired and respected their 66 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,640 field and I kind of saw the lifestyle that they've had. 67 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,840 They've always kind of had a really good balance between family and career and that's something 68 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,760 that I was kind of thinking about. 69 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:59,600 But I ended up getting into the six year doctorate of physical therapy program at Northeastern, 70 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:05,160 which was like super cool, but I had no idea what I was getting myself into to be honest. 71 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:10,840 And it was kind of like a gut feeling that physical therapy was not for me. 72 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,440 It's kind of embarrassing to even say this, but like I set up a shadowing opportunity with 73 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,800 the physical therapist just to kind of dig deep. 74 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:23,880 And I didn't even call like, I know that sounds so bad, but like I think reflecting now upon 75 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:30,840 like the freshman year in college, Diana, I like had no passion to like do the homework 76 00:04:30,840 --> 00:04:32,040 that was assigned to me. 77 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,560 Like I didn't really know why I was there. 78 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:40,480 I think I just kind of like clicked a checkbox that says physical therapy and it like obviously 79 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:44,680 reflecting on it, that is not the best way of being a student. 80 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,680 But those things kind of accumulated and I realized that my passion didn't really lie 81 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:50,640 within physical therapy. 82 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,720 I knew I wanted to be in the healthcare field for sure. 83 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:55,960 In Brooklyn Tech, we have like bio majors. 84 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,880 So we took Oregon anatomy and things like that. 85 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:04,760 But I think to me it's kind of through shadowing, through doing a summer program as a pre-dental, 86 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,560 that's kind of where it was really solidified for me. 87 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:08,560 Yeah. 88 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,760 I think what your story kind of embodies like what everyone kind of fears, like they have 89 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,680 to get it figured out by this kind of day, like before they even get to college. 90 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:20,160 I know there's like some programs, like there's a dental program, the seven year, eight year 91 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,440 I think, they're both at your eight year meta dental program, they're all kind of the same. 92 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:28,520 So it's very, it's like comforting to know that you don't have to have it figured out 93 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:29,520 by the time you get to college. 94 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,800 You know, you sell a little bit of time, you know, college is like that time to grow and 95 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,240 like figure out what you want to do. 96 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:39,760 So can you like touch a little bit on your undergraduate experience, like, you know, 97 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:43,360 how you kind of solidified your pursuit of dentistry? 98 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:44,920 Yeah, sure. 99 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:49,680 So when I came in as a physical therapy major, I was, you know, still taking courses that 100 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,440 were considered prerequisites towards dentistry. 101 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,960 So it's not like a complete waste of time, if that makes sense. 102 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:01,680 But I slowly started to move away from physical therapy and I changed majors to biology. 103 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:07,880 I decided to pursue a health science minor, which kind of had courses like community and 104 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,960 public health and like public policy classes. 105 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:16,640 And those types of courses were always something that I was really interested in. 106 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,640 So I was able to transform that into a minor. 107 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:24,800 So that kind of goes into my extra curriculars as well, you know, like health disparities 108 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,120 and doing volunteer work. 109 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,280 So it all kind of kind of came together. 110 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:33,960 In terms of college, I think I ended up taking a gap year. 111 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,280 So that's something that's really important to kind of know. 112 00:06:37,280 --> 00:06:42,080 Because I feel like when you're not ready to apply and you're kind of forcing yourself, 113 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,800 sometimes people aren't as successful as they hope to be. 114 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:51,920 So I kind of wanted to give myself enough time to study for the DAT and apply with a 115 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:58,040 whole couple of months to only dedicate towards the application, as opposed to dividing my 116 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,760 time between studying and also personal statement and also getting letters of rec. 117 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,320 Like to me, that was a little bit too much all at once. 118 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:13,480 So I decided to take the DAT in 2016 and then I applied in 2017 to get into school 2018. 119 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:17,840 So I definitely took my time with that. 120 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:22,120 And again, I don't think academics were definitely the reason why I got into dental school, but 121 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,600 I think it's the actual curriculars that really helped out for me. 122 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,800 Yeah, so you yourself went from a physical therapy track to pre-dental. 123 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:33,080 And there's a lot of other students that go from medical to dental during undergrad. 124 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:34,240 So what was the best way? 125 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:39,320 And how did you organize your classwork, your coursework, and kind of your activities and 126 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:40,320 stuff? 127 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:44,320 So how did you kind of go about, what was your experience of transferring to the pre-dental 128 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:45,320 track? 129 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:46,320 Like what was that like for you? 130 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:51,800 Yeah, so I think that one of the most important things is to be strategic throughout the entire 131 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,880 dental school process. 132 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:58,200 A lot of people feel like there's so much stress associated with it and there is definitely, 133 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,280 but there's some things that you can implement. 134 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:06,040 In terms of coursework, I always really like to emphasize the fact that sometimes when people 135 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:10,840 take one class, it takes, and you have only like three exams, for example, right? 136 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:17,480 It takes the first exam to figure out how your professor asks questions and then changing 137 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,520 your study schedule and changing those things. 138 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,440 And then by the time you're at your midterm and then you've already had a bad grade, so 139 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,520 there's not quite enough time to kind of figure things out. 140 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:33,920 And so one thing that I started doing during my third and fourth year was taking class, 141 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:39,760 taking upper level courses in biology from professors that I had taken courses from before. 142 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,800 Obviously, that's not always possible, but that's something that really helped because 143 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:48,920 I already knew how this professor was going to be asking questions and I already felt 144 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,920 comfortable going to office hours, for example. 145 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:56,120 So I always kind of encourage if you have the ability to take an upper level course, 146 00:08:56,120 --> 00:09:00,440 like taking a biochem and a microbiome with the same professor, I always like to tell 147 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:05,760 pre-dental students to do that because I think that is building a relationship and then 148 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,520 you ask them for an evaluation or a letter of rec. 149 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,360 And so like it all kind of comes together. 150 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,040 So that I think is really helpful. 151 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:18,880 The other thing is kind of opening as many doors as possible, but also thinking about 152 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:23,640 it as not just choosing coursework based on the pre-rex, but also choosing the coursework 153 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,800 that might make you a successful dental student. 154 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:33,520 So pathology, I don't think it's actually like a prerequisite for any of the courses 155 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:39,000 or any schools, but I think that taking pathology would have helped me. 156 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:44,000 Taking histology would have helped me, not just the bare minimum of taking anatomy, 157 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,560 biochem, or whatever it is. 158 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:50,200 So I think that changing your mindset from being like, what do I have to do to get into 159 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:56,720 dental school and changing it more towards what can I do now to prepare myself to be 160 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:03,560 a successful dental student is kind of the better way to look at coursework in undergrad. 161 00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:09,120 I know, even before I schedule my course, I always look at like rate my professor, those 162 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:14,080 kind of things to know that if your professor is really strict on certain coursework and 163 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,760 to know like if you can, you know, if you have to take a professor for a certain course, 164 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:18,760 that's not the best. 165 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,360 And you can't simply with other courses, like you can choose professors a little more easier 166 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:23,680 to kind of balance your workload. 167 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:25,160 So just things to consider. 168 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,000 I feel like when you register for classes. 169 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,640 So that can also be a hurdle. 170 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:33,480 So did you have like any other major hurdles you have to face during your undergraduate 171 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:38,640 career, like I don't know, academics or just like balancing life and the books and kind 172 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,360 of just maintaining your pursuit of dentistry? 173 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:46,960 Yeah, I think for me, the biggest hurdle was the mathematical calculation of having, I 174 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:51,080 think, two pretty bad semesters at the beginning. 175 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:58,560 So I had two semesters, I think the first two that pretty much kind of made it mathematically 176 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:02,160 impossible for me to like have a 4.0 GPA, right? 177 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:07,720 So it took a lot of strategic planning on my part in order to get my GPA up because if 178 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,320 you think about it, it's always going to be like the average of the semesters. 179 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,880 So like you can't always go as high as like, you know, every pre-dental student wants to 180 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:18,040 have a 3.9, for example. 181 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:24,360 So I think in undergrad, my biggest hurdle was doing well in those like Orgo one class 182 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:29,720 and biochem, you know, those are the ones that were really difficult, especially, I 183 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:35,360 mean, I know the DAT talks about like ecology and plant biology and stuff like that. 184 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,280 Like I did pretty poorly in some of these classes that I knew were going to be very 185 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:40,280 important. 186 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:46,600 And to combat that, for example, I kind of had to either take upper level courses to 187 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,840 kind of show that like, you know, I may have not gotten the best score in ecology one-on-one, 188 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,120 but I did way better in like molecular cell bio, for example. 189 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:55,120 That's one. 190 00:11:55,120 --> 00:12:00,160 The other thing for Orgo is I just kind of really focused on the DAT to get a really 191 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:05,080 good Orgo score so that I can reflect on that during an interview if that's what's being 192 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,080 asked. 193 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,240 Like, yes, I didn't do that hot in Orgo one. 194 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:15,560 But as you can see, like on my DAT section, like that just shows that I learned the material, 195 00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:20,680 maybe it'd be like two, three years later, but just so that they're aware that that's 196 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:25,000 kind of, you know, like there was some improvement to be done. 197 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,960 Calc also, like I didn't do that well in Calc one. 198 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:29,720 I did really well in Calc two. 199 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:34,520 And I actually asked that professor to write me a letter of recommendation talking about 200 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,280 the improvement that I've done from Calc one to Calc two. 201 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:42,600 So everything to me was a little bit more strategic in terms of letters of rec and all 202 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,520 of that coming together. 203 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:52,600 And I think like, you know, taking a course, I lost my train of thought real quick. 204 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,360 What was it? 205 00:12:54,360 --> 00:13:01,080 Oh, you may struggle in a few courses, but I feel like even if your GP is not that high, 206 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,240 there's a reason why everyone takes these DAT exams and these MCATs or whatever admissions 207 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,040 test it is to get into graduate school, there's a reason why they take that. 208 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,400 So in case, you know, you don't do the best during one of these pre-wrestling courses, 209 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:15,000 you can show the admissions committees that you did really well and you struggled and 210 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,680 you like studied really hard and got a better score. 211 00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:23,160 And I feel like many people don't think about that, but you know, even if you did bad in 212 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,720 Orgo, you got to retake it, you do better, maybe even like TA the course, like if you 213 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,640 TA the course, maybe you can learn better about teaching other people. 214 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,760 So so I think that's just like some things that pre-downs want to like look out for. 215 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:36,320 Yeah, for sure. 216 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:37,320 Yeah. 217 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:40,320 So, Dr. Kim, can you just walk us through the dental school application itself? 218 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:45,360 Like maybe even some of your personal experiences with the DAT, personal statement, you know, 219 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,920 actually writing the application, stuff like that. 220 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:48,920 Yeah. 221 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,360 So I think the timeline part is very important, right? 222 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,480 So a lot of pre-dental students are like super adamant on not taking gap years for, 223 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,560 you know, like no one wants to wait a whole year, that sort of thing. 224 00:13:59,560 --> 00:14:01,240 So I was the same way. 225 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,880 I started the process January of the year that I thought I was going to apply. 226 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,760 And at that point, I needed to take the DAT. 227 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,480 I needed to do all of everything to get all that together. 228 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,720 And I did, but I almost kind of like half did it. 229 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,920 Like I was just, I like knew it in my heart that I was like not ready, but I just was 230 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,240 so stubborn and I was like, no, I'm going to try. 231 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:23,360 I'm going to keep going, you know. 232 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,360 And then so I studied for the DAT for about two, three months. 233 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,360 And I realized like I didn't have a personal statement at that point. 234 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:32,560 And I would kind of have to like whip something up. 235 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,160 And to me, that didn't feel satisfying. 236 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,880 So even though I went through all of the, you know, the checklist of asking for letters 237 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,800 of rec, like I still had that, which was good. 238 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,240 But then I decided not to apply. 239 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:49,680 So I was happy with the DAT score that I got that year. 240 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:55,400 And then I spent the whole next year while I was doing, you know, graduating and whatnot. 241 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,240 And that's when I really kind of did everything the right way. 242 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,720 So it was still helpful for me to start asking for letters of rec and start thinking about 243 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,600 everything, start writing the application blurbs, you know, like every single activity 244 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:09,600 that you've done. 245 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:14,440 I started doing that, but then it gave me like the breathing room for the whole next year 246 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,480 to actually kind of perfect it. 247 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:21,040 So this is kind of saying like for those people who are either their parents are like, no, 248 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,440 you have to apply now or are really adamant about applying. 249 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:31,200 Sometimes you have to really kind of reflect and kind of have that intuition of whether 250 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:33,080 like this is the cycle for you. 251 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,800 Because it worked out for me the following cycle. 252 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,480 And I always think about this now. 253 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:43,080 If I had applied before, then I would have been in the class above and I feel like my 254 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,600 class is so, so much better, you know what I mean? 255 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,880 Like I always, I think everything does happen for a reason. 256 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:55,040 I think just to not be so stubborn as to apply when, you know, you personally are not ready 257 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,880 is something that I learned throughout that application. 258 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:04,200 In terms of personal statement, I think for me, I knew what I wanted to write about. 259 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,600 I didn't know how to put it on paper. 260 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,360 And I think the biggest thing is not just answering by dentistry. 261 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,440 I think it's what's unique about you. 262 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:19,320 So for me, for example, I grew up in Uzbekistan and I speak Russian. 263 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:24,760 And that's something that was always, you know, like ice breaker time, two truths and 264 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:25,760 a lie. 265 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,120 Like that was always something that was really unique and memorable about me. 266 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:36,280 And so I was kind of able to connect my experience in like a third role country and the healthcare 267 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:42,440 that I saw there to my experiences with global medical brigades and how I saw myself in those 268 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,880 little kids that I saw in Panama. 269 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:50,120 And then somehow, you know, you have to kind of make it all connect. 270 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:55,120 And I think that I was able to do that by showcasing one unique thing about me and like 271 00:16:55,120 --> 00:17:00,200 a really big extracurricular global medical brigades that I that was really important 272 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,200 to me. 273 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:06,280 So between those things and the physical therapy aspects of things, those were like, I want 274 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:12,720 to say the big three topics, switching majors, you know, my unique background and global 275 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,200 medical brigades, those were my three topics that I was able to kind of piece together 276 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:18,840 in my personal statement. 277 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:23,120 And I think you said that you founded that chapter at your school, right? 278 00:17:23,120 --> 00:17:24,720 So can you touch a little bit upon that? 279 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:27,640 I'm kind of interested in hearing about that because I know at our school we have VAW, 280 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,160 which is kind of, I don't know if it's similar, but I went on the trip personally and I just 281 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,160 want to hear what your experience was like. 282 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:39,920 I think going on these international trips, I think it's something like it's a had to 283 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:40,920 be there moment. 284 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:47,520 Like it's difficult to explain to people the effect that it has on you unless someone 285 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:51,200 else has been there or has done similar work. 286 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,480 So I actually had a medical school friend who went on global brigades through Brooklyn 287 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,000 College and he was telling me everything about it. 288 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,920 And I was like, I want to do that. 289 00:17:59,920 --> 00:18:02,320 Like, and we didn't have a chapter. 290 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,200 I'm very, I like all that like organizational type of stuff. 291 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,760 So I wanted to start the chapter and it was very difficult. 292 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,560 And I think the first year we wanted to go, first of all, there was a lot of like safety 293 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,400 concerns with going to a foreign country. 294 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,760 So we couldn't recruit enough volunteers. 295 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,720 We couldn't get enough like healthcare professionals to come with us. 296 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,520 So the first year was kind of like my application cycle. 297 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:32,160 I like half did it, but it helped me like to do it for real the following year. 298 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:37,840 So after we founded it, we actually ended up bringing 35 volunteers to Panama. 299 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:42,000 So we spent three days in, you know, like the school setting up the clinic. 300 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:46,160 So I, I was kind of, you know, delegating who was going to be at which station, that 301 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:47,160 sort of thing. 302 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:48,160 I loved that. 303 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:52,520 And a lot of the volunteers are actually like doctors, PAs, dentists now. 304 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,800 So it's like, it's really nice to have that community. 305 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,840 But more importantly, you know, there was also a public health aspect. 306 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:02,760 So we were physically building latrines. 307 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:10,640 And, you know, as cool as this experience was, I think it's less so about what you do. 308 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,920 It's more so about how you explain it on your application, right? 309 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:20,480 So you don't have to go to Panama and build the trains in order to get into dental school. 310 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:26,560 You can do anything else that floats your boat that you have passion for, but it's more 311 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:33,480 importantly the language, the sentences that you use to describe it and the way that you 312 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:39,560 reflect on it so that you don't just say like, I sterilize dental insurance or I did this 313 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:40,560 and this. 314 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,920 It's more like a little bit more, a little bit more reflective, a little bit more about 315 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:49,320 how you, what you learn, what skills you learn throughout that experience. 316 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:56,080 So I'm like huge on not doing research just to do it or not doing outreach just to do 317 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:01,760 it, but more so doing what you want to do, but then taking the real time to like explain 318 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,120 it in a way that is very reflective. 319 00:20:04,120 --> 00:20:05,120 Yeah. 320 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:09,320 And that kind of follows like the whole like, you know, do a few things really, really well, 321 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:13,440 rather than like a bunch of things, like just to do them. 322 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,840 Like true, even like in high school applications, any kind of application, I feel like if you 323 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:22,000 show them the actual passion for it, then they'll actually take it to heart instead 324 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:23,000 of just saying, okay, cool. 325 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,400 So like what'd you do about it? 326 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:25,760 And you can really feel it. 327 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:30,480 I think some people are like, oh, like I did 20 hours of like whatever volunteer work, 328 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,680 but then like if I ask a pre-dental student about it, like, oh, tell me more about this. 329 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:39,880 Like you can see passion versus like, yeah, I did it just to do it. 330 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,600 Like to me, that part is really important. 331 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:43,600 Yeah. 332 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:44,600 100%. 333 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,120 So I wanted to kind of go back to your gap year. 334 00:20:47,120 --> 00:20:51,520 So like a lot of people have this notion they're surrounded by all these pre-dental students. 335 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,960 So like they're all applying this in this three year, essentially three year cycle, like 336 00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:01,600 three year, three years to build up your application that apply in June or whatever. 337 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,560 And a lot of people get stuck in that, but it sounds like you didn't get stuck in that. 338 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,480 Like you had that, you had that mature, I guess, maturation, you're mature enough to 339 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,160 like understand that you need more time yourself. 340 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:15,240 So what's some advice to some students that you think that could benefit from like a gap 341 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:16,240 year? 342 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,080 And what was like your experience and how'd you, I don't know, like how'd you strengthen 343 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:20,880 your application? 344 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,400 So I would say that I was very lucky. 345 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,240 I went to Northeastern University and we have a co-op program. 346 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:31,400 So instead of applying or instead of graduating in four years, we actually graduated in five 347 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:32,400 years. 348 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:37,280 So when you think about it, plus my gap year, I've actually been two years out of, you know, 349 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,320 between that time. 350 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:45,200 And so during the co-op, basically what it is, is it's six months of you being placed 351 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:51,280 at an internship with, in whatever fields and you're getting paid and there's no homework, 352 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,080 there's no exams, like it's amazing. 353 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,160 And you get a real life experience of knowing what it's like to work in that field. 354 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:03,480 So I had friends who were, you know, engineers or, you know, they were actually like in graphic 355 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:04,480 design. 356 00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,640 So they like worked at different companies in Boston. 357 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:08,740 Like that was really good for me. 358 00:22:08,740 --> 00:22:12,640 So I worked at that dental implant company and it was six months. 359 00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:13,640 It paid really well. 360 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:18,040 I got a lot of experience, clinical administrative, all of that. 361 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,080 And then I became part-time. 362 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:25,040 And then I eventually turned that into a full-time position that I did during my gap year. 363 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:31,680 So one of the things that I will say in terms of advice on the gap year is people feel like 364 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,160 during the gap year, you have to do something clinical. 365 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,160 Like people think that that's what dental schools are looking for. 366 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:41,680 But knowing everything that I know now from dental school, I actually think that people 367 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,960 need to focus on communication skills. 368 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:49,640 One, public speaking skills, two, and administrative things. 369 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,080 Because when you're a dental student, like you're still calling your patients most times, 370 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:55,080 right? 371 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,360 I'm sure there's a handful of schools that schedule patients for you or whatever. 372 00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:00,120 But you're still calling patients. 373 00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:06,720 So if you're really nervous about talking to patients on the phone, or if you're not comfortable 374 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:12,520 treatment planning and explaining things to people from a communication standpoint, then 375 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:19,040 you are already not going to be as successful as you can possibly be in dental school, right? 376 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,920 So through my gap year, I was doing basically front desk. 377 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:28,160 I was scheduling patients, taking payments, invoicing that sort of stuff. 378 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,320 That was not clinical, technically. 379 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,520 But it taught me the insurance side of things. 380 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:39,400 It taught me how to deal with really inpatient patients who are yelling at you. 381 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,160 And you know, like, sorry, you have to pay. 382 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,200 Like, you know, and you learn those skills. 383 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,440 And that to me is very valuable. 384 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:52,200 Obviously, doing the assisting in a clinical setting is great also. 385 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:58,560 But I think a lot of people struggle third and fourth year with the administrative stuff. 386 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,840 Like, how do I organize my roster full of like 40 patients? 387 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,640 And I kind of had a system because that's kind of a system that I was using when I was 388 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,320 scheduling patients before, you know, so I think every experience kind of fits into 389 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,600 it like a puzzle. 390 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:19,760 So pre-dental students, I guess you shouldn't be focused too much on just looking for clinical 391 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:25,880 shadowing experiences because you can get a lot from being an admin, a front desk, 392 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,920 you know, insurance part of things or anything like that. 393 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:29,920 Yeah. 394 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:30,920 Yeah. 395 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:31,920 So I work in an office too. 396 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:35,040 And you know, like more times than one, than none, there's like administrative, like 397 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,800 people, the ladies at the front desk will come back and complain about patients like 398 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:38,800 yelling at them and stuff. 399 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,000 And I'm like, thank God, I don't have to deal with that. 400 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,200 But on the other side, I'm like, you will. 401 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,200 I know. 402 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,200 But like they asked me, sometimes patients ask me like, so is my shirt going to cover 403 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:48,200 this? 404 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:49,200 I'm like, I have no idea. 405 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,760 And even the doctor like doesn't know. 406 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,080 And I was like, I feel like we should know somebody these things so that maybe we can 407 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,600 tell them if it's a positive honest answer that they'll feel a little bit better in that 408 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:58,600 situation. 409 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,080 You know, there's, there's times where like, I'm like, I kind of wish I knew a little 410 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,760 bit more than administrative side, just so, you know, it's not just clinical base. 411 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:08,840 And I know it's going to help me in the future. 412 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:09,840 So yeah. 413 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,480 I was going to say in dental school, people think that you're just a student. 414 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,600 You're also like the front desk. 415 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:20,360 You are the secretary that's also faxing the medical consults. 416 00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:23,640 You're also your own lab assistant because you're pouring up your own models. 417 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,840 Like you are playing all of those things. 418 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:32,160 So it's really nice if whatever job you have, let's say you have an assisting job, right? 419 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:37,480 You can also be like, Oh, hey, like I'm curious about how you go about sterilizing or, hey, 420 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,080 can I get cross-trained at the front desk and maybe pick up the phone once in a while? 421 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,320 Like just to get yourself comfortable with that. 422 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,880 Because that would help a lot. 423 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:47,880 Yeah. 424 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,920 So let's talk a little bit about your, about your interview process, right? 425 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:55,800 So I wanted to hear a little bit about, you know, you know, how your interview experience 426 00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:00,760 was and, you know, how did you choose which schools to attend and apply to? 427 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,240 Yeah, no, absolutely. 428 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,480 I think the real, okay. 429 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,640 So I think a lot of pre-dental students have this thought like, okay, I want to get as many 430 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:14,760 interviews before December 1st and then I'll make my decision and like, that's great. 431 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,760 What I found, especially for me was the, the acceptances did not come in the most convenient 432 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:20,760 way possible. 433 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,760 Like, yes, I got a couple of acceptances December 1st. 434 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,760 I, did I put down a deposit? 435 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:32,040 Um, yes, I put down a deposit for one of like the three schools that I heard about. 436 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,240 And then as soon as I put down that deposit, I got an interview to a different school. 437 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:41,040 And so like the way it works is like, you're never going to have like all the cars. 438 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:46,280 Like here are six schools that are accepting you like now you choose. 439 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,920 The reality is you just say no to this school. 440 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:53,280 You just say yes to this school, but then your first choice is going to be like, oh, 441 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,600 in a month you have an interview. 442 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,080 So I think people need to be prepared to make those decisions. 443 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,240 And if necessary, drop deposits as you go. 444 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:07,840 Like I ended up putting down three deposits and from a financial standpoint, it really 445 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:13,160 sucked because Stony Brooks was like 350 at the time, which is like nothing compared to 446 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:18,040 BU, which is like, I believe 2,500 something like that. 447 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:19,040 Right. 448 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:20,760 Um, but you have to do that. 449 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:21,760 Right. 450 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,360 Like you're not going to be like, no, no, BU. 451 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:27,320 Like I'm going to wait for my for Penn to get back to me. 452 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:33,160 Like, no, because at that point you just have to make those decisions as they come along. 453 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:39,440 So for me, I was kind of between two very expensive schools, um, one in an area that 454 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:40,760 I would live in. 455 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,160 The other one would be like very much out of my comfort zone. 456 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,720 It was on the West Coast. 457 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:46,560 Um, and then Stony Brook. 458 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,660 So I did the summer dental program at Stony Brook. 459 00:27:49,660 --> 00:27:54,920 So I was a little bit more familiar with faculty, you know, upperclassmen and kind of there's 460 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,920 definitely a lot of benefits to having a lower tuition. 461 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:03,920 Um, with all that being said, like I do think that I made the best decision for me during 462 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:09,120 that time, because I think there are pros and cons to all of those things, but coming 463 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:14,880 out with less loans, I feel like was so much more important to me than the things that, 464 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,280 you know, I was able to get from those schools because at the end of the day, yes, it's all 465 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:21,840 about what school offers you. 466 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:25,720 I just found a lot of times dental students don't actually take advantage of everything 467 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:26,720 that's being offered. 468 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:27,720 Right. 469 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,760 And there's, you know, a lot of people make decisions based on like, oh, this person, 470 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,280 this place doesn't have as much research, but I feel like if research is so, so important 471 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,320 to you, there is going to be a research opportunity. 472 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:44,920 You may have to work a little bit harder for it, but I think all the opportunities are 473 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,520 there for people regardless of what school you go to. 474 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,000 Um, so that's kind of where I fell in. 475 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,620 I wanted to do the, like the clinical aspect. 476 00:28:54,620 --> 00:29:02,320 I wanted to be a little bit closer to home and the tuition is like way, way less at Stony 477 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:03,320 Brook. 478 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,760 So yeah. 479 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:11,800 And um, you know, the second part of getting an acceptance is like the interview part. 480 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:16,040 And this all goes back to like, in the administration side, like it kind of start from there, you 481 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,480 start building up your ability to speak to people, ability to connect to like your interviewer. 482 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,280 Um, so I just wanted to ask, like, how was your interview experience? 483 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,320 Like, did you, um, like prepare rigorously for it? 484 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:30,560 Did you just kind of go in there knowing, knowing what you know and just being yourself? 485 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:31,560 Yeah. 486 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:36,240 So I think a couple of things, and I already started telling some of the people that I 487 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:41,360 like work with, I think once you apply to the time that you get your first interview, 488 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:45,680 people are like sitting and waiting and waiting and waiting, but I actually think that the 489 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:51,040 best thing to do is already start figuring out your interviewing situation. 490 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,440 Like pretend I also believe in like manifesting and stuff like that. 491 00:29:55,440 --> 00:30:03,480 So I think that students should start preparing for interviews as if they already got this 492 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:09,240 interview because what happens, especially when it becomes after December 1st, like before 493 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,760 December 1st, you got an interview in September and they're like, Hey, like come in end of 494 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:14,760 October. 495 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:15,760 So you have a month to prepare. 496 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:16,760 Great. 497 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:22,320 So if it's in December, January, February, it's more like, Hey, can you come tomorrow? 498 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:23,880 And you're like, what? 499 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,240 Like I don't have enough time to prepare, but you would be crazy to say no to that interview. 500 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:29,240 Right. 501 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:37,040 So this like, anxiousness and the nervousness of waiting can be so much better if you just 502 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:42,080 start very casually looking into things, writing things out. 503 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,400 So what I did was I looked up, there's a bunch of like different interview questions 504 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:47,400 everywhere. 505 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,520 So I would just answer them in paragraph form and I would bold the things that I definitely 506 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,880 wanted to visually like remember to say. 507 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:59,600 That way it's not like you're not memorizing word for word what you're going to say when 508 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,680 they ask you identity, but you're going to remember like, Oh, I want to talk about this. 509 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,600 I want to talk about this and this, right. 510 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,960 And then everything else comes out a little bit smoother. 511 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:15,880 So I would say one, I would say start preparing as if you have all 16 interviews lined up 512 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:22,600 so that you're more prepared to talking to dental students at those schools. 513 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,000 At Stonyburg, for example, we have our third and fourth year. 514 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,440 So the second years are doing the school tours and then the third and fourth years are actually 515 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:33,400 interviewing and we actually write an evaluation, you know. 516 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,960 So knowing as many dental students as possible is going to help a lot. 517 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:43,400 And those are actually going to be the people who are going to be partially evaluating you 518 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,680 in some form or another, you know. 519 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,960 So talking to dental students, that's really important. 520 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:55,280 And just answering as many questions as possible in paragraph form like on a Google doc and 521 00:31:55,280 --> 00:32:00,360 printing things out and just talking to yourself, you know, like if you're bored, just asking 522 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,600 yourself questions and pretending to answer them in a really good way. 523 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,240 So the public speaking aspect of things is also going to come into play as well. 524 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:14,280 And then I think one more thing is trying really hard not to get jaded by the interview experience. 525 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,840 I felt like the first interview, I was super excited. 526 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:21,600 I was super passionate and by the sixth interview, I had six. 527 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:28,440 By the sixth one, I was like kind of more mellow and I feel like that was the school 528 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,120 that didn't really feel the fire, the passion that I really wanted to go to that school. 529 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,960 And that's not because there wasn't. 530 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,960 I was just tired of interviewing. 531 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:43,640 So just kind of not getting to that point where you're tired of answering questions because 532 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,040 you can also see that. 533 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,280 Yeah, that's that's also a really good point. 534 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,880 Like maybe that mental fatigue with answering the same questions over and over again. 535 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,720 I guess something you have to overcome, you know, when I do get to when we do get to that 536 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,440 point, you know, like something we got to keep in mind that it's not like a big deal, 537 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:05,720 but it can definitely sway some of your dental school applications or acceptances, you know, 538 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,320 way or another. 539 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:08,880 So now you have your acceptances, right? 540 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,680 And so what factors kind of went into, you know, choosing Sonya Burke as the best school 541 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:14,680 for you? 542 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:17,040 I want to kind of hear a little bit about, you know, what highlights of the school that 543 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:22,400 you really fell in love with and, you know, why ultimately ultimately decided to come 544 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:23,400 here. 545 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:27,600 Yeah, I think for me, knowing some upperclassmen, that was something that was kind of important 546 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:28,600 to me. 547 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,880 I got a chance to meet a bunch of them during the program and I know that it's kind of 548 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,560 important to know some people, those are the people that are going to kind of help you 549 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,240 through digital dentistry was something that's really important to me. 550 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:46,280 And I knew that Sonya Burke kind of had that as well as the clinical skills. 551 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:47,560 Our school is very small. 552 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:54,040 So Sonya Burke, we had 46 people and coming from Brooklyn Tech, which had like literally 553 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,640 1400 in my class only all throughout high school, right? 554 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,680 I was really used to that big class environment. 555 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:06,120 I thought, you know, I wouldn't like it at first, but I think that's something that I 556 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,080 really enjoyed having for four years. 557 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:13,640 And then the other thing is the medical school during the first year where with the med students. 558 00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,400 So I actually made a lot of med student friends who are now in Philly with me too. 559 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,720 And you know, like that kind of expands the network. 560 00:34:19,720 --> 00:34:23,800 So you're not only just hanging out with the same 46 students from Sonya Burke. 561 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:30,280 Tuition, I would say was a big thing, like I said, but you know, it's kind of a gut feeling 562 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:31,880 like I could see myself going there. 563 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:36,440 And sometimes you, I like did not see myself going to Arizona. 564 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:42,120 Even though I do think that clinically, I probably would have like graduated with more 565 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:43,720 clinical experience. 566 00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:49,240 But what I got from Sonya Burke was qualitative experiences that I can't describe. 567 00:34:49,240 --> 00:34:54,440 Like I can text some of my professors from there and be like, hey, I don't know what to do. 568 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:59,560 And those are relationships and mentorships that I was able to get because we're such a small class 569 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,440 size and those opportunities were there for me. 570 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:02,920 Yeah. 571 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,040 Yeah, no, that's great. 572 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,840 And I think, you know, I think Sonya Burke and Harvard, I believe are like the smallest 573 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:11,480 class sizes. 574 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:13,080 I know Buffalo is like 95 or something. 575 00:35:13,720 --> 00:35:17,800 He had a D2 student, Paul DeMars will come last year. 576 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:18,520 Yeah, Paul. 577 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:19,000 No, Paul. 578 00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:23,320 So he talked about, you know, how great Buffalo is and how it's not just in the middle of nowhere. 579 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:24,920 We get to ask him that. 580 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:26,120 Okay. 581 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:27,960 But, you know, that's what he said. 582 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,720 But yeah, so that small class is definitely like very attractive. 583 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,800 So I'm going to switch gears here. 584 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,480 So is there any advice like you'd like to give pre-downal students in relations like 585 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,680 maintaining their academic life while also nourishing their like mental and emotional 586 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:43,240 health? 587 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:45,880 I know you're very, you're very adamant on that kind of thing. 588 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:50,920 Yeah, I think there's this misconception that it has to be a stressful process. 589 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:56,920 And I think combined with the perfectionist type A personalities that pre-downal people have, 590 00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:04,680 it's kind of a recipe for disaster because you may survive the dental school application process. 591 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:10,680 But then when you add on the 20 different courses, all of that gets piled on. 592 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:16,680 And if you don't start implementing those things or like as a pre-downal students, 593 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:21,000 like while you're waiting for those interviews, like that is the best time to start working 594 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:26,280 out to start sleeping quality sweep meal prepping. 595 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:27,560 All those things. 596 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:33,320 So this is something that I always say, I started as a D1 in August and I was like, 597 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,200 this is great new life, new me like that sort of vibe. 598 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,640 And I was like, I'm going to start meal prepping. 599 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:38,920 I'm going to start working out. 600 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,160 I'm also going to like not procrastinate. 601 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,520 I'm going to like I have like literally a list of 20 things that I was like, 602 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:45,640 I'm going to start now. 603 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,520 And obviously with building habits, there's so many things that you just, 604 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:54,040 you can't physically implement 20 new habits. 605 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:58,840 So I would say during your gap year or coming into like the summer into dental school, 606 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:06,520 that's the best time to do things that are important to you, but implement them strategically 607 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:11,240 so that when you're starting in August, you're not like all of a sudden waking up and also 608 00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:12,760 like there's just too many things to do. 609 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,760 Having a hobby, something that's really important to you is something that really helped me. 610 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:23,880 And I think that people who do have hobbies in dental school do better than those who constantly 611 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:31,320 say no to social activities to study because at the end of the day, that person may only get 612 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,520 like four points higher on an exam than someone else. 613 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:39,960 But then what happens is with every social activity you go to, you build connections, 614 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,640 you build friends, and those are people who will have your back in clinic. 615 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:48,200 You know, like I always think that every single thing that you do and where you put your energy, 616 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,000 it has some sort of outcome down the line. 617 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:58,040 So you obviously don't want to do that just for that, but you find that through studying with friends, 618 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:06,600 you gain those relationships and you can rely on more people and you have that support during 619 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,280 those difficult times in dental school. 620 00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:13,080 So I always say that, you know, first year, a lot of dental students say like, oh no, like, 621 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,200 I'm going to focus first year on academics and then I'll get involved day two year. 622 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:25,480 And I'm actually like the opposite, like I think you should get involved now because then you have 623 00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,080 your foot in the door and then you can go for like e-board positions and down the line. 624 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:35,080 Like if you only become a member of an organization as a D2, then you're applying to 625 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:36,840 residency as a D3, right? 626 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:43,240 Like you don't really have as much opportunity to get really deep into an organization. 627 00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:49,160 So I just say yes all of D1 year. Obviously there's a balance, right? 628 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:54,920 But saying yes to social activities to like extracurricular activities and then D2 is really 629 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,560 when you start saying no to the things that didn't work for you and start saying yes to the things 630 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:01,000 that you want to explore more. 631 00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:06,760 And then D3 is like there and then you apply if you want to specialize or do residencies and then 632 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:11,480 D4 like doesn't actually exist because you're mentally checking out your career, 633 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,880 you're mentally checking out, you're taking boards. 634 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:18,840 There's like, it's a lot shorter than you think, I guess is what I'm trying to say. 635 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:21,400 I don't know if I answered your original question. 636 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:27,400 I think like there's people that will just study all day. 637 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:28,200 Yes. 638 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,920 Great, great for them. Like it's great. You should do that. 639 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:36,360 But also make some time to like be a human and just do what you like to do. 640 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,960 Like me personally, I like to, you know, when I took Orgo 2, whatever I did, 641 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:44,680 I was taking the class like in the fall semester, but I made sure like at least three or four times 642 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:49,000 a week, I'd go play basketball at the rec just like with the boys, you know, just kind of release 643 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,040 some stress. Even if I was tired, just go because I know it'll be a good time. 644 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:57,240 Just kind of like bring yourself back down to, you know, give your brain a little rest break. 645 00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:58,040 Yeah. 646 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:02,680 Kind of give you some time to be social because at the end of the day, like it all goes back to this 647 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,320 whole being able to interact with other people as a dentist, right? It's all about social interaction 648 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:12,360 stuff like that. So if you get stuck in this, in this like book mentality, 24 seven, it's not 649 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,000 going to be good in the long, in the long run, I guess. 650 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:16,760 Yeah, I completely agree. 651 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:20,920 And yeah. And so on that kind of note of, you know, mental health and kind of remaining social, 652 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:26,120 you know, I know that you do a lot of pre-dental mentorship and I guess just simple coaching, 653 00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:31,480 you know, you know, coaching where, you know, you, the students can reach out to you and kind of, 654 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,240 you can get put their mind at ease with whatever their, whatever obstacles they're facing. So 655 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:39,880 how can students get involved and interact with these coaches that, you know, can ultimately 656 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,440 help them mentally and physically, you know, throughout their undergraduate career and possibly 657 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:45,560 even their dental school. 658 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:53,480 Yeah, totally. So I think that one is just showing up. I think that every experience, you know, whether 659 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:59,400 it be a dinner and learn, it's such a small world in dentistry that, you know, one random guest 660 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:06,600 speaker comes in, you listen to them and then that person may have, like, maybe friends with 661 00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:12,120 your future employer down the line. So I try to kind of make as many connections as possible and 662 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:17,480 put yourself further and further out there. So I used to make myself like kind of like small goals. 663 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:24,520 Like my goal today is like, I don't know, ask a random question in front of the whole, like, 664 00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:31,720 whatever, just to like force myself to speak up, to practice raising my hand and saying something, 665 00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:37,560 even if it comes out weird or whatever it is. Or I used to push the AGD members, we went to a 666 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:43,880 conference altogether, and I was like, ask them a question after the class ends, like class ends, 667 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:48,840 just ask them, say something, I don't know what it is, but you have to start practicing saying 668 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:54,680 things. And when it comes to mentorships, like those things are, no one is really going to be like, 669 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:59,640 hello, I am looking for a mentor, someone that I can bring under my wing and like teach you 670 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:05,000 everything like that doesn't happen, that is a very natural kind of progression. You maybe you 671 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:10,280 ask that professor a question, and maybe that professor sends you an article that addresses 672 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:16,760 that question. And it's like watering up plants, like you can't just expect that like, one professor 673 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:24,120 is going to be your mentor, like for the end of dental school type of thing. So showing up, 674 00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:29,000 I always say that like, I know, especially the underclassmen, when they come to meetings and 675 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:34,440 things like, I know who's always there, like even if it's on zoom, okay, like, even if it's in person, 676 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:40,760 I know there's like, hey, that person has been there like a lot. So obviously that contributes to 677 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:46,840 any discussion, whether like, eboard members are choosing future people to go over like, to become 678 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,440 president or whatever it is, like, those are considerations, because I'm always like, okay, 679 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:55,160 like, two people are running against each other or whatever. And I'm like, but that person has 680 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:59,640 literally been to every single volunteering event. And like, that person has shown interest and 681 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:05,800 initiative and helped out and like, so I don't always obviously I don't always choose, but 682 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:10,920 it's kind of like, I noticed it. So then next time an opportunity comes up, I'm always like, hey, 683 00:43:11,720 --> 00:43:17,320 so and so, there's this work study position that opens up. And that's kind of my way of like, 684 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:23,320 seeing who shows up, who puts in the effort, and then giving them back something that, you know, 685 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:29,480 I feel like they deserve. So that is something really important in terms of going to conferences, 686 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:34,440 I think that's huge, right? If that's especially when you're a student, everything is free. When 687 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:40,280 you become a resident, everything's like $300. So I would say yes to as many as events, 688 00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:47,640 national as events, like, AGD, everything, you know, those are things where you meet someone, 689 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:53,480 like you're standing in line to get food. And I literally met the founder person of the Hispanic 690 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:58,040 Dental Association. And then he was like, Hey, like this and that. And now I literally me and 691 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,880 my friend just reach out to him. And we're like, Hey, when's the next CEC course? We're like, 692 00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:07,720 these things are just like, they light me up. And I get so super excited when I meet people and 693 00:44:07,720 --> 00:44:11,960 I meet them again a year later. And then I feel more comfortable coming up to them. And 694 00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:17,800 that's kind of how you start fostering a relationship. To address your mentoring question, 695 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:22,200 I think the reason why I'm super passionate about mentoring is like, when I was applying, 696 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:27,000 there were not this many resources. So like podcasts like this, didn't really exist. There's 697 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,960 like maybe a couple of YouTube people, right? Now there's like social media, Instagram pages, 698 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:39,640 there's so many people willing and open to give advice and provide resources and everywhere from 699 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:47,320 like pre-dental to like seasoned specialists, I think that is so much more available. So I kind 700 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,800 of felt like I was kind of lost in the whole process. And I kind of wish I had someone who I 701 00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:56,120 can be like, Hey, should I take this or this? Like, should I take this class? When should I take the 702 00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:00,520 DAT? And that's kind of the role that I kind of fulfill right now with some of the pre-dental 703 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:06,840 students that I work with. Because a lot of it comes from accountability, right? So I'm sure 704 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,520 people are like, Yeah, I'm going to study. And then it's like a month goes by and you're like, 705 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:17,960 still not studying. So having someone who's going to give you like deadlines or checkpoints or 706 00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:22,040 check in with you, there's a little bit more accountability. And then students are able to 707 00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:26,280 kind of progress a little bit more strategically throughout the whole process. So that's something 708 00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:31,080 that I really like doing. I've been working with pre-dental students like on a monthly basis, 709 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:35,240 bi-weekly, whatever works for them, because everyone's journey is super, super different. 710 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:42,520 So some people have like high DATs and low GPAs. And some people have high GPAs, but like haven't 711 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:47,320 taken the DAT or maybe have taken it twice already, you know, like everyone's in such a 712 00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:52,120 different position that I feel like you need someone to kind of bounce those ideas. 713 00:45:53,880 --> 00:46:00,600 And I know like your whole belief is like, I guess, treat undergraduate as if you're preparing and 714 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:05,000 building those habits to become like as a dental student, not just get into dental school, because 715 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:09,640 if you think of dental school as like an end goal, yeah, that's not, obviously it's not. But 716 00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:15,560 And people said to me, they used to tell me like, Oh, like the hardest part is getting in and then 717 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:19,560 everything is like easy because it's really hard to get like kicked out. Like that was kind of the 718 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:25,960 mentality. So I thought like, I just got to get in and then like, I'm good. No, like I really 719 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:31,320 feel like you just have to start implementing other things, new skills. And the mental health part 720 00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:37,400 didn't come into my life until COVID. I think COVID was pretty much like, of course, that was 721 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:45,160 such a like a dark timeframe for everyone. But from my life personally, I focused more on it. 722 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:51,160 And I realized how many things I've been neglecting because of dental school. And with the given time 723 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:56,920 and being like literally stuck at home, I started to re implement nutrition and like taking care 724 00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:03,160 of myself and doing yoga because back pain is so real in dental school, right. So I think for me 725 00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:08,440 two years of dental school was like just going 200 miles per hour, just go and go and going and like 726 00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:12,840 studying and then forgetting everything that you studied all that stuff. And then in COVID, I kind 727 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:17,880 of like slowed down and I realized, I don't want to do that thing that I keep saying yes to. And I 728 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:24,040 want to focus more time on myself or, you know, saying notes of those things. So this is not like, 729 00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:29,960 I haven't always had a focus on wellness, I guess it's been very recent. 730 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,760 Right. So like kind of going on that, like how was your first couple years of dental school? Can 731 00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:40,440 you walk us through like D1 to D4? Like how was it? How did you feel going into D1 year? And like, 732 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:46,600 what was how was your progression like? Yeah, so I knew going in that clinically I was going to be 733 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:53,240 stronger than didactically for sure, because I knew that like classes like that, like biochem was 734 00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:58,760 difficult for me. And now you just do the same biochem, but in like two months instead, you know, 735 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:06,600 I think the biggest thing with didactics is studying with someone. So I was able to find two 736 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:11,400 friends who are like my closest friends now, we used to make a schedule and you know, like you 737 00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:16,040 have to do the math, like if there's 20 lectures and the exam is in two weeks, you need to do 20 738 00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:23,400 lectures divided by like eight days. And then so you have time to do questions. So we kind of made 739 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:29,160 a schedule so that you know, coming into that study set schedule, like you're going to the library 740 00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:33,480 and like, you know that if you didn't do those two lectures, you have nothing to contribute to your 741 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:38,520 like group session type of thing. And then slowly we would just like implement writing on the dry 742 00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:44,280 race board and explaining each concept to one another. And I believe that when you can teach it 743 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:49,000 to someone else, that's truly when you actually understand the concept. And it's not just word 744 00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:54,920 recognition, right? So that's like active recall, because a lot of pre-dental students also like, 745 00:48:54,920 --> 00:49:00,920 oh, I did like one chapter on like plan biology. And I'm like, okay, cool, like, what did you learn? 746 00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:06,440 And then we're sitting there for like 60 seconds, because they don't remember what they learned, 747 00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:12,360 even though they spent four hours learning it, right? So the active recall is something that 748 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:18,120 was really important for me to learn and studying with a friend was definitely something. Second 749 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:22,680 year was rough, because you're not just taking difficult courses, you're just taking like, 750 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:28,600 20 different courses all at once. And I think I listened to your first episode, 751 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:34,680 whereas it was like, it's not like semester based, like you're not taking like three classes for four 752 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:40,120 months, it's more like you take one class, you take the exam, it ends and you want starts, but the 753 00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:45,320 other one is still ending, like, it's, you don't have that clear cut, like, okay, now I'm going to 754 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:50,360 like start fresh, that you don't have that you're just constantly going. And then clinic, I think 755 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:56,680 you just start to re-implement different things. And being okay with not knowing everything and 756 00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:02,120 not knowing everything and being okay, not doing everything perfectly. I think that's something 757 00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:06,360 that's really important. I think that things got better definitely, but my first year, I would say 758 00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:10,440 was the hardest actually. Yeah, so you know, of course, you know, throughout dental school and 759 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:16,120 probably undergrad too, like, you know, you might have run into some clinical and possibly academic 760 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:22,360 failures and obstacles throughout your career. So how did you approach them and how did you 761 00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:27,320 kind of overcome them? Like, what methods did you use? Like, did you listen to anything? Did you just 762 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:34,360 kind of, you know, got it out or did you find a way around it some other way? Yeah. So I actually 763 00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:38,760 rely a lot of my like personal growth on like different podcasts. So I want to just like put a 764 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:44,440 couple of things out there. So there's this one book, it's called How to Win, How to Influence 765 00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:49,400 People, How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. So that's something really good 766 00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:55,560 for interviews, where he talks about like how to connect with someone in like a micro moment. 767 00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,080 Like you're standing in an elevator and like what can you say to kind of like 768 00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:03,640 find commonalities with someone and that's something that's really important for interviews. 769 00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:09,160 So that's a side thing. For failures, I actually started listening to the Heberman podcast and 770 00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:15,640 basically what he talks about is motivation and failure. And the way he says it is in order to be 771 00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,600 good at something, let's say you have to fail 20 times. It's like, it's just, that's just how it 772 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:26,120 is. Like for example, I remember the second year, you're like probing. Probing is like literally 773 00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:31,960 the most easiest, like no harm done. Like, but when you're second year, you're just like, 774 00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:37,160 I can't see anything. I don't think I'm probing right. Like it feels like the end of the world. 775 00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:43,960 But when you do it five times, 10 times, 20 times, you gain that confidence. So just being okay with 776 00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:49,880 the fact that like in order for you to feel confident and good at something, you need to do it badly, 777 00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:54,920 let's say 10 times. And once I started to really think about that, then I was just like, okay, 778 00:51:54,920 --> 00:52:00,440 I'm just going to do it one more time. And the more you do it, even if you're improving by like this 779 00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:07,720 much, you're getting somewhere like doing recalls as a second year was like two and a half appointments, 780 00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:14,280 a total of eight hours technically, right. And then by D four, it took us like half an appointment. 781 00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:18,840 So it's almost just being focused on the fact that you almost have to 782 00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:26,280 do it bad until you get really good. And then also this idea of clinical, 783 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:32,360 accept clinically acceptable. So like, when you're doing things in preclin, they want you to do like 784 00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:38,920 five millimeter, 1.5 millimeters by 1.5 millimeters, that's how big your prep is. But in real life, 785 00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:45,240 it's however big the cavity is, right. So like, you're not really going to be measuring yourself 786 00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:51,320 based on a certain measurement, you're going off your gut feeling and your visual and tactile 787 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:57,000 feeling of how big this cavity is, right. So knowing that it doesn't have to be perfect, 788 00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:02,840 it just has to be good enough to not harm the patient. Like, and I think being okay with that 789 00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:09,240 is something that took us a very, very long time to kind of understand. Also atomic habits is a 790 00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:13,880 really, really good book that made all the difference in terms of understanding like how I 791 00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:20,680 function and what habits I want to implement and things like that. Yeah. I think like, you know, 792 00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:25,960 your analogy of like, failing a bunch of times and eventually getting it right. I didn't, I didn't 793 00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:31,240 have a day, like you were going to be the dentist. You, there's nobody that's going to look over your 794 00:53:31,240 --> 00:53:35,400 shoulder in your practice and be like, you have to do this, you do this. It's kind of like, 795 00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,920 you got to put on yourself that from all your training, all your failures, 796 00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:45,240 that these are the best options for your patient. And like, and like, I've always wanted to ask 797 00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:47,880 my, I don't know why I haven't asked him yet, but I've always wanted to ask a doctor I work with, 798 00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:53,160 like, when was the point in your dental school journey where you knew this was the right option? 799 00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,920 Like, sometimes he's talking about the options. He can give a patient, I'm like, how do you know 800 00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:01,560 this is the best one? Like, how is this the best one? How do you make the patient comfortable 801 00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:05,400 than knowing this is the best option for them? Like, how do you convince them? You know? So like, 802 00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:11,880 did you ever have, did you have like that moment? Like, I don't know how that thought. I think it's, 803 00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:20,120 it's a little, so when you're working in clinic, the patients motivation and priorities are important, 804 00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:29,480 right? So if I know my patient is just trying to get a crown, for example, then you want like, 805 00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:34,920 okay, I don't know what a better example would be, but I guess you have to prioritize what their 806 00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:41,400 priorities are, right? Is it that they can, they'd rather do more in one appointment or would they, 807 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:46,280 like, or do they have to pick up their daughter at like three o'clock? So you have 45 minutes with 808 00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:52,600 them. So like, understanding why they're here and what's important to them is going, is inherently 809 00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:58,680 going to help you guide your treatment planning based on that. So I had a patient who would come in 810 00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:03,640 in the morning and the afternoon, and I would like, she would have her PG periopoietman in the morning, 811 00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:09,240 and I would make her come in with me at two o'clock, so that we did not make her drive two 812 00:55:09,240 --> 00:55:15,000 hours for each appointment. Like, and she felt really like help, like, she was very happy with 813 00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:20,920 that. And she trusted me more. And so we tried to expedite things in ways that I wouldn't do for 814 00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:25,560 someone else who's like, not down to spend the whole day with me to do dentistry. Like, you know 815 00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:32,520 what I mean? And the other thing that I, in terms of failures that I just thought about is I, I hope 816 00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:38,920 this doesn't sound weird, but for my crowns in dental school, like, I somehow survived with like, 817 00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:45,080 all of them like fitting, right? Okay. And obviously at the time I was like, oh, like, 818 00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:48,440 it's so great, like, I didn't have to make any adjustments, blah, blah, blah. And like, that 819 00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:52,360 was great. That's wonderful. I was able to graduate, like I wasn't really stressed with like, the 820 00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:57,720 graduation requirements. But now that I'm in residency, and I am taking over cases and a 821 00:55:57,720 --> 00:56:04,040 crown doesn't fit, I'm like, I kind of wish one of my crowns in dental school did not fit so that 822 00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:09,800 I knew how to troubleshoot those scenarios. And a lot of times when you make those mistakes as a 823 00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:17,240 dental student, you are so much more, it's so much more vivid in your mind, so that every time, like, 824 00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:22,680 if you forgot to do something, next time you're like, oh, I can't forget to do that. And if those 825 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:28,680 things, if those unfortunate failures don't happen to you, then you're not as aware of those things. 826 00:56:28,680 --> 00:56:34,600 Right. So that's something that I felt like I had to learn. And I had to learn through, like, 827 00:56:34,600 --> 00:56:38,600 other people, like, someone is like, oh, my crown didn't fit. And I was like, oh, wow, like, 828 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:43,000 what did you do? Like, did you use the occlude spray? Like, did you use fit checker? Because I 829 00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:48,600 never physically had to do that, which is like, again, very grateful that my crowns fit. But I 830 00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:54,200 didn't get that experience of learning how to fix it, which I think is very valuable. Like, I almost 831 00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:59,160 feel like it should be like one crown has to not fit. Your denture has to not have enough 832 00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:03,880 retention so that you know how to fix those. Because now I'm figuring it out in residency. 833 00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:08,280 And I think, so like, around my office, there's a couple doctors there. And I know 834 00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:14,040 most of the time, they're able to figure it out by themselves, like, probably like 95%, 835 00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:18,120 90%. Yeah. But there's always a couple patients where they ask someone else, ask one of the 836 00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:23,000 doctors to come in and take a look. And like, that's when you kind of see these heads colliding, 837 00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:29,000 like, they even though they're maybe five, six years out of dental school, residency stuff, 838 00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:34,680 they still need to have those failure, like not failures, but they need to experience someone 839 00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:41,240 else's failures. Yeah. They need to consult with somebody who has had the opportunity to fail 840 00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:45,640 before and know what to do so they can show them what's going on. So kind of like relates to what 841 00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:51,080 you're saying. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So like another question I have is, you know, 842 00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:56,600 we ask all of our guests this just because it's very interesting to me. So how did it feel going 843 00:57:56,600 --> 00:58:00,760 from Typhid Donson, like those Maddickans that, you know, we see dental students practice on 844 00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:05,160 dirt on Instagram pages. It's like an actual person, actually, being like, what, what were those 845 00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:10,280 feelings like? And you know, how'd you kind of approach that? Yeah, it's really scary. But I 846 00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:16,760 think this comes to like, I definitely want another piece of advice, like preclin. It's like a running 847 00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:21,080 joke, but like indirect vision, right? So like everyone's like, you should practice indirect 848 00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:25,880 vision, like whatever. But when you're at an exam, or you're taking your CDCA boards, 849 00:58:26,440 --> 00:58:33,560 we're all hunched over, we're all looking like this, like, because you don't want to fail your 850 00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:39,240 exam because you're like mirrors, not, you know, but now that I'm doing real dentistry and I want 851 00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:46,200 to preserve my back and I want to have a long career and whatnot, I really wish that I just 852 00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:51,320 force myself that I would just come in on the weekend and be like, I cannot do direct vision, 853 00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:55,880 I have to use the mirror, like, I should have pushed myself more. So this is kind of an advice 854 00:58:55,880 --> 00:59:01,400 for everyone going forward. I know that in the moment, you just want to like, you just want to 855 00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:09,400 look and you, and you don't really prioritize your own back and neck for that moment. But I think 856 00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:16,440 that I kind of wish I did, right? And then going from type it on to where everything is all perfect 857 00:59:17,080 --> 00:59:22,920 to going clinic to the clinic where, you know, your class twos, they don't have a perfect contact, 858 00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:28,440 right? Like the teeth are all rotated. And now you're just like, wait a second, I only know how 859 00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:35,640 to put the V3 matrix on when there's like a perfect contact. So now you kind of, you don't feel 860 00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:41,880 prepared, like you never really feel prepared. And then now in residency, no one is telling me like, 861 00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:47,880 oh, that's a cavity, because most of the time in dental school, you do you go through the motions 862 00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:54,360 and the attending is like, okay, you're going to do a 2DO and you write down 2DO. Did I see that 863 00:59:54,360 --> 01:00:00,280 2DO prior to presenting this to the faculty? Like, no, you, you know, and there's always, we always 864 01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:05,320 laugh about this. So many moments where they ask you what your findings are, and you're like, 865 01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:10,040 oh, there's a cavity on this, this, this. And then they're like, oh, and you saw the thing on 18 866 01:00:10,040 --> 01:00:15,000 occlusal. And you're like, yeah, totally dead. Like, and then you write it down and you're like, 867 01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:21,160 what? Like, I thought that was just like normal and out of any. Now in residency, no one is 868 01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:27,960 checking it for you. So I'm treatment planning, I'm going with it, I'm hoping I'm doing it right. 869 01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:36,360 And I, and I again, hold that down the line. Like, maybe I missed some decay, let's say. 870 01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:40,840 But then I start writing the note and I was like, wait, I missed that. So then I had to call the 871 01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:46,920 patient back after I told them that they didn't have any cavities and be like, actually, I was 872 01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:52,120 looking a little bit more into the radiographs. And I do see something that's questionable. So I 873 01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:56,680 do need you to come in. So it's like, did I mess up? Yeah, I feel like I probably should have seen 874 01:00:56,680 --> 01:01:01,000 that. But at the same time, like now no one's really checking that for you. And you kind of have 875 01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,680 to be okay with making those clinical decisions, which is something that I'm working on right now. 876 01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:13,160 But I would really as a dental student try really to try making those decisions yourself. And then 877 01:01:13,160 --> 01:01:19,400 being like, do you agree, doctor, as opposed to just them being like, that one needs a crown 878 01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:27,240 and not asking why? Why does that one need a crown and not an MOD amalgam or an MOD in lay, 879 01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:31,720 whatever? Those are the questions that I never really asked in dental school. And I feel like I 880 01:01:31,720 --> 01:01:37,080 should have. Because in dental school, you're just, you're like, oh, can I have the PBS and you see 881 01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:41,640 everyone else is using the green one. So you're like, oh, can I have the green one, but you don't 882 01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:46,440 really understand why you're using the green one, the heavy body over the medium body, you know. 883 01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:50,520 Sorry, I know for the pre-dental students, it might not be as like, because it's a little bit more 884 01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:54,840 technical, but the whole point of it is just to kind of get the most out of the dental school 885 01:01:54,840 --> 01:02:00,040 experience. Yeah. Yeah, I know you're talking like really like beyond. I know. Yeah. But you know, 886 01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:05,240 but still, but like, it all goes back to the central question, like, ask why, you know, even 887 01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:09,160 if like, it even goes back to like shadowing or something, even if you shadow, like, I know 888 01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:14,120 I shadowed a lot before I started assisting. Yeah. In the beginning, I was kind of hesitant to like 889 01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:17,960 ask the doctor, what's going on? Like, what's this? Just because like, it's new to you, just kind of 890 01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:22,120 want to see a little bit, but you realize that like, when you're shadowing, you don't see a lot 891 01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:27,160 because they're crowding the area. So you got your, it's either you're forced to ask the question, 892 01:02:27,160 --> 01:02:32,680 or you just go home, you have no idea what that is. Right. And if you ask the question, maybe you 893 01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:37,480 can build a relationship with a doctor. So like asking why it goes like a long way. So it's definitely 894 01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:42,760 like, if you practice that like in undergraduate or even if you're in high school right now, 895 01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:47,640 if you practice in a high school, undergraduate, whatever, then you can probably be more comfortable 896 01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:52,040 asking it while you're like in dental school. Right. So, and it also applies like classes too, 897 01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:56,200 like why does this have, why does this reaction and orgo happens? I had no idea sometimes. I had to 898 01:02:56,200 --> 01:03:01,400 ask why did you get a better idea. So like, you know, you touched on residency a little bit. 899 01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:05,160 So I just kind of want to ask a little bit more, like, how was your process getting into 900 01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:11,080 residency? And now you're like in D3, or you apply residency? Yeah. So you apply right before 901 01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:19,960 you become a D4. So during that summer, it's very similar to applying to dental schools. So for 902 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:26,520 anyone who thinks it's over, and the D8, okay, for anyone who thinks the DAT is the last like 903 01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:33,160 big exam they take, lies, okay, so you have to take board exams. And then if you want to do like 904 01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:39,320 fellowships, there's just always more. And I think having an understanding that that's the reality 905 01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:47,160 is going to be step one. In terms of applying, it looks just like AdSes. It literally same layout, 906 01:03:47,160 --> 01:03:53,400 same idea stuff. But now you're just applying to residency programs. And there's still a personal 907 01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:59,480 statement. They're still going to ask you why do you want to pursue residency? And you can't really 908 01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:04,600 recycle the same personal statement, obviously, but it's the same process of like spending time 909 01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:11,000 writing up your like CV and like all the things that you've done. So it never really ends. And I 910 01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:15,560 don't mean that in like a sad kind of way, but it's kind of like you get to do this process again, 911 01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:21,800 but you get to be better at it with more experience. And I actually I did a lot of research. So during 912 01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:28,120 COVID, there was a lot of webinars, panels, things like that. I literally had a conversation, every 913 01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:34,440 single program that I applied to, I had talked to someone from that program who graduated or 914 01:04:34,440 --> 01:04:42,200 something like that, because I wanted to get real life experience with like the how happy they were. 915 01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:47,720 Little things like with dental school, something I didn't mention is you want to like if you want to 916 01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:53,720 specialize or not, you can go to a school that doesn't have post grad programs, right? So if you go 917 01:04:53,720 --> 01:05:01,160 to one of those schools, then you get to do more as a dental student, but you don't get to see 918 01:05:02,040 --> 01:05:07,240 the different specialties in action. So at Stony Brook, we have every single specialty. So we have 919 01:05:07,240 --> 01:05:11,320 rotations where we hang out with a perio residence, we hang out with the OS residence, 920 01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:18,680 you know, Peds, things like that. That's good. But you don't do as many root canals because 921 01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:23,960 the endo residents are doing right. So these are all really good questions to ask yourself. Do you 922 01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:31,000 want to do more? Like if you want to go into GP for sure, I would say maybe go to a program that has 923 01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:39,800 no PG programs, right? Because you get to do more complex things yourself. If you know you want to 924 01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:45,480 go into OS, for example, you want to start putting your door, your foot through the door and gain 925 01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:51,160 those mentorships with those OS attendings who will then potentially take you into their OS program. 926 01:05:51,160 --> 01:05:56,520 So same thing with residencies, you kind of have to understand what types of things you're looking 927 01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:59,880 for. So I was looking to place implants. That's something that's really important to me. I want 928 01:05:59,880 --> 01:06:07,240 to get like, I'm not trying to become an implant surgeon, but I want to get those things in a 929 01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:13,240 residency setting where it's okay to, you know, have someone else see what you're doing. I wanted 930 01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:19,560 to have endo. I wanted to have certain things and I did not want to see kids. Okay, I like love kids, 931 01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:27,000 love playing with them, but I, that is not kind of what I plan on doing. And so that's why I ranked 932 01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:31,800 a lot of like VA programs. So I applied to a lot of VA programs and that's something, you know, 933 01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:37,880 there's no kids, but at the same time, there's no wisdom tooth extractions, right? So if you're trying, 934 01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:43,080 or not as much, obviously. So there's always pros and cons to different things that you're 935 01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:47,720 looking for. You just have to know what you want. So that's kind of the whole spiel on 936 01:06:47,720 --> 01:06:52,520 residencies. It's the same thing. You have to do your research, you interview, you have to have a C.V. 937 01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:56,600 personal statement. It's really the same thing if you choose to do a residency. 938 01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:03,800 Awesome. So Dr. Kim, why did you choose general practice residency over specializing in another 939 01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:09,560 specialty? Yeah. So I think the things that I really like doing, I see myself teaching at some 940 01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:16,280 point down the line. And I like being the orchestrator when it comes to a patient, right? 941 01:07:16,280 --> 01:07:23,320 So a patient comes in and let's say they have perio disease. I don't feel like I need to be the person 942 01:07:23,320 --> 01:07:30,120 to treat their perio disease, because then I can't really do their endo and I can't really do their 943 01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:36,920 other things, right? I like this idea of understanding the whole treatment plan. And I'm perfectly okay 944 01:07:36,920 --> 01:07:41,240 doing the things that I feel comfortable doing and then sending them to the specialist that could 945 01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:47,080 give them the high quality care that they need. But then down the line, they still come back to me 946 01:07:47,080 --> 01:07:54,600 for that recall for all of the other dentistry. And I think you get a little bit more relationship 947 01:07:54,600 --> 01:08:00,680 building with them. So it's kind of like you're delegating. I like that. You're orchestrating 948 01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:04,600 their whole treatment plan and you're working with other team members. And then of course, 949 01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:09,320 I think with general, you can do the things that you're trained to do. So down the line, 950 01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:14,040 I do an implant fellowship, for example, I hope I would feel comfortable placing some of the 951 01:08:14,040 --> 01:08:19,720 straightforward cases. I'm not going to be doing some crazy stuff. But I think that being a specialist 952 01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:25,640 is actually limiting in a way where you can only do those things. Like you go into endo, you won't 953 01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:32,360 necessarily be prepping crowns or whatever. And I like a little bit of everything. So that's kind of, 954 01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:38,760 and I wanted to do more complex procedures that Stony Brook or any dental schools don't really 955 01:08:38,760 --> 01:08:45,320 give you. So that's kind of why I wanted to do a GPR. But I think everyone's super different. If you 956 01:08:45,320 --> 01:08:50,600 can see yourself doing endo every single day, and like that super excites you, that's awesome, 957 01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:54,280 because there's a lot of instant gratification when it comes to endo, people, you just get them out 958 01:08:54,280 --> 01:08:59,080 of pain and they're like really happy with you. And that's great. But I think for general practice, 959 01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:07,320 I can see myself building that relationship and having them come back to me each time to move 960 01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:13,400 along that process. Yeah. Yeah. So have you had those experiences like so far? I know you just 961 01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:18,280 graduated, right? Like a couple months ago. Yeah. How was your experience with residence 962 01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:21,640 been so far? Like what's your schedule throughout the day? Like how does it, you know, 963 01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:27,720 Yeah. I mean, when I was talking about the transition, it has been rough. Like I'm not 964 01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:33,640 gonna lie. I was going into residency thinking that it's going to be a 745 to 415 kind of day, 965 01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:37,400 and then you're done, and then you go and like you do your thing, you focus on your wellness, 966 01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:42,200 that sort of thing. So right now, this past month, it takes a really long time to learn the new 967 01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:48,280 system. You're not using AXIUM anymore. Like all the systems are really different. And you're writing 968 01:09:48,280 --> 01:09:53,160 notes in a different way, because it's like you feel more accountability and responsibility for 969 01:09:53,160 --> 01:09:57,960 the treatment that you do. So we don't do lab work. We don't like have to do some of like the 970 01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:03,960 stupid things that dental students have to do. But at the same time, there's a lot more to be done. 971 01:10:04,760 --> 01:10:11,800 So I think that my JPR, you know, I've done biopsies, we've done Botox. It's very OS heavy. 972 01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:19,000 So I get a chance to like do those things myself, typically that in other cases, it would go straight 973 01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:24,600 to the OS resident. So our program, basically, we work with OS residents who are 5th years, 974 01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:31,400 second and fifth years at Penn. So I take on the patient, I start extracting or doing whatever. 975 01:10:31,400 --> 01:10:35,560 But if I have any questions, or someone needs to bail me out, there is someone to do that for me. 976 01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:41,240 So it's not like you get to try it, but you also have the safety of someone helping you. 977 01:10:42,040 --> 01:10:46,280 So I don't feel like they're like stealing cases. It's a very like natural progression. People just 978 01:10:46,280 --> 01:10:53,000 like see different patients. I've done more endo than I've done in the four years of dental school, 979 01:10:53,000 --> 01:10:58,520 and I've done more extractions that I've done in the fourth year of dental school, like things move 980 01:10:58,520 --> 01:11:03,960 a lot faster. With that said, right now, it's a crazy transition. You're on call a lot of times, 981 01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:09,720 and you're doing things that you don't know, like you were never formally trained to do some things. 982 01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:15,480 But through repetition, you just get a little bit better each time. So no one's going to teach you 983 01:11:15,480 --> 01:11:22,200 exactly how to do an incision and drainage. But after the third time, you kind of understand 984 01:11:22,200 --> 01:11:29,960 how to do it and you do it. Yeah. So how was the thing you mentioned, like, do you have to schedule 985 01:11:29,960 --> 01:11:35,640 your own patients, right? For dental school or for residency? For now, like for residency now. 986 01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:41,720 Yeah. So it's a little bit different with the VA system. So the VA system throughout all of the 987 01:11:41,720 --> 01:11:47,080 VAs in the US, they use a special system. It is a little bit archaic, to be honest. And there's 988 01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:52,520 a huge learning curve in terms of how to use it. The good thing, though, is that it integrates their 989 01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:57,240 whole medical everything. So you know the last time they saw their neurologist, you know the last 990 01:11:57,240 --> 01:12:04,040 time they got their blood work done. So you don't have to call the PCP and be like, hey, Mr. Jones 991 01:12:04,040 --> 01:12:09,080 came in, like, can you tell us what's going on? You have all that information. So that's really good. 992 01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:16,680 But with that said, there's a lot of like learning in terms of like the system that they use in general. 993 01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:24,760 I forget. What was your question? Sorry. Like in terms of residency and like scheduling patients. 994 01:12:24,760 --> 01:12:28,920 So yes, we schedule patients, but there's also a front desk who does that for you and you have 995 01:12:28,920 --> 01:12:36,440 your own assistant. So you're not, yeah, like not like dental school. Right. So like what's, I don't 996 01:12:36,440 --> 01:12:39,880 know, just last part of our residency. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's like the most interesting thing you've 997 01:12:39,880 --> 01:12:43,960 seen so far? It's been a couple months, but like what's maybe most interesting, but also most 998 01:12:43,960 --> 01:12:52,280 challenging thing that you've had to face? Yes, with the veteran population, how medically complex 999 01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:59,000 they are, right? So in dental school, when you do extractions, it's very clear cut. Like if their 1000 01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:04,760 blood pressure is like a certain amount, like extraction gets canceled. If they have diabetes 1001 01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:13,000 and their like lab values are too high, you can't extract the two. Here it's like everyone is so 1002 01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:22,280 medically complex that the limits of what you can do is a little bit more doable. Like you still 1003 01:13:22,280 --> 01:13:28,040 have to provide that treatment, but you just have to be able to manage what happens with that. Right. 1004 01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:32,360 That's not something that I'm used to in dental school because you would have like one person 1005 01:13:32,360 --> 01:13:37,160 that came in with hypertension or one person that had diabetes and it was like the biggest thing ever. 1006 01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:41,080 And you, they sit in your chair and you just hope they're like blood pressure is 1007 01:13:42,520 --> 01:13:47,880 controlled enough here with the veteran population. I feel like they're just so medically complex that 1008 01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:52,440 it's so difficult to kind of, there's some people who've had cancer. There's so many different 1009 01:13:52,440 --> 01:13:59,000 patients that have had cancer. Again, so many biopsies to be done. I don't have like a necessarily 1010 01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:05,880 like one big case that I thought was particularly challenging because it's so early on that I can't 1011 01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:13,480 really see the progression of their treatment plan just yet. But I think just I'm a little, 1012 01:14:13,480 --> 01:14:17,960 the challenge to me is managing a patient that's so medically complex that normally 1013 01:14:18,680 --> 01:14:23,240 we would not see as pre-dox. So I never had the opportunity to manage a patient like that. 1014 01:14:23,240 --> 01:14:28,760 So there's definitely lots to learn from that standpoint. So all I'm hearing is there's never 1015 01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:35,000 anything learning and you just have to keep going. Yeah, yeah, that's a very good way to summarize it. 1016 01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:40,440 Yeah, cool. So I mean, the audience should know that you do offer like one-on-one mentoring 1017 01:14:40,440 --> 01:14:46,840 and tutoring advice about pre-dental process and everything about the pre-dental process. 1018 01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:51,400 So how can students get in touch with you? And if they have any further questions or if they just 1019 01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:59,720 want to start a connection with you? Yeah, totally. So Instagram would be the best place. So it is 1020 01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:07,320 dr.dianakim.dds and I have a link there. So basically what I like to do is do like a 30 minute 1021 01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:12,680 intro session where students can just tell me like what's going on and I can give them like 1022 01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:19,240 my feedback, like just tangible action items that I think can be addressed. And if they're kind of 1023 01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:24,920 into the way that, you know, we talk through things or if they get benefit from it, then we can set 1024 01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:30,680 up something that's a little bit more like bi-weekly or monthly and every single person's 1025 01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:37,080 mentoring is so different. There's some people that I check in every Sunday, hey, how's it going? 1026 01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:41,640 Like what's the progress report? What are your DAT scores look like? And then there's some people who 1027 01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:46,840 we only really focus on like the stress component of applying. There's some people that we just sit 1028 01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:54,120 down for an hour and we just edit their application. And I try to like put in synonyms of words that 1029 01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:59,800 are stronger than just what, you know, the pre-downs of students are coming up with because I think 1030 01:16:00,440 --> 01:16:06,200 you undervalue yourself when you use not strong words because everyone's assisting, but there's 1031 01:16:06,200 --> 01:16:11,560 a way to kind of describe it in a way that catches other people's eyes. So everyone is like super 1032 01:16:11,560 --> 01:16:17,800 different. There's not really like a structured way of doing it, but like monthly, bi-weekly, and 1033 01:16:17,800 --> 01:16:22,920 then some people do like a six-month thing where from January to June we meet once a month. And 1034 01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:29,720 that way like January, we talk about like letters of rep. February, we only do like DAT prepping, 1035 01:16:29,720 --> 01:16:35,080 like what the game plan is. And then like March, we only do like personal statement. That way it 1036 01:16:35,080 --> 01:16:40,840 kind of pushes the person to go along the timeline and be ready for that June submission date. 1037 01:16:40,840 --> 01:16:46,360 And then interview Proud, you know, stuff like that. Yeah. And yeah, we'll definitely put like 1038 01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:50,840 your socials in our posts on Instagram too. So like people want to reach out to you, definitely can. 1039 01:16:51,960 --> 01:16:56,200 So yeah, that's kind of all we have to discuss today. So that concludes this episode of Bill 1040 01:16:56,200 --> 01:17:01,320 Sudental Podcast. Thank you Dr. Kim for joining us and sharing your experiences and advice. 1041 01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:04,680 Your insight was definitely valuable to Nusha and I. We hope that it'll be the same for our 1042 01:17:04,680 --> 01:17:08,920 pre-to-the listeners. Everyone please, please feel free to reach out to Dr. Kim and our socials, 1043 01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:13,080 which we'll put on our Instagram posts if you have any further questions. And we thank everyone 1044 01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:16,200 for listening. And if you enjoyed today's episode, please be sure to follow us on Instagram and 1045 01:17:16,200 --> 01:17:41,720 Spotify and podcast now. And we'll see you next time for another Bill Sudental Podcast.