Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Dostodonal podcast with your host myself,
Siraj Shah.
The focus of this podcast is your undergraduate dental school experiences from dental students
and dental professionals through valuable discussions.
We hope that through these discussions we can inspire and provide answers to your questions
or challenges you may face on your own pre-dental journey.
We are beyond excited to have Dr. Diana Kim as our guest today.
Dr. Kim graduated from North Eastern University in 2017 with her bachelor's degree in biology
and a minor in health science and recently received her doctorate of dental surgery degree
from Soderbergh University School of Dental Medicine.
In her undergraduate year she was the founder of her university's global medical brigade
chapter, the artistic director for an on-campus dance troupe called Kinematics and was a laboratory
administrator and patient coordinator with a dental implant company named Bicon Dental
Implants.
In dental school Dr. Kim was an associate member on the national level for the American
Student Dental Association.
She was the president of the Academy of Dental Dentistry and was a student representative
for the Dental School's alumni board.
Dr. Kim has been honored as a scholarship recipient for the Dental Tree Alliance Foundation
in 2020 and for the peer for Shah Art Academy in 2021.
Dr. Kim is now competing in general practice residency at Philadelphia VA Medical Center
in Pennsylvania.
Dr. Kim, we're so excited to have you join us on the podcast.
How are you doing and how is this already a residency between you?
Yes, hi.
Thank you so much for the wonderful introduction.
I love that.
I'm very excited to be here.
In terms of residency, it's definitely an adjustment, right?
So I just finished my, I believe, six through seventh week and it's very different from
dental school and it's definitely the real world dentistry that I feel like a lot of
dental students kind of don't get experience with because in dental school, everyone is
so focused on being a perfectionist, right?
Like you're measuring millimeters, everything like that.
And I think there's so much more to dentistry.
So I'm going to say that it's just been an adjustment for sure and just kind of using
this month to figure out the groove of things and you know how I plan on practicing.
Yeah.
So again, welcome to the podcast.
So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, like where you're from, like where
you grew up so our audience gets a better understanding of like who you are.
Sure, absolutely.
So I grew up in Brooklyn, New York.
I went to high school in Brooklyn Tech, the biggest high school in the U.S., I believe.
So that's kind of my background.
Like you mentioned, I went to Boston at Northeastern University and you know, I think something
that's important to me is kind of the extracurricular activities and things like that.
I don't think that I was necessarily like a strong academic applicant, but I feel like
all of those things combined kind of got me to where I am right now.
Other than that, I love to dance.
So that's kind of been my de-stress method throughout college, dental school and whatnot.
And I'm really big on like mentoring as well.
That's something that I'm really passionate about as well.
Awesome.
Yes.
I mean, that sounds amazing.
I cannot wait to, you know, dive into all these aspects of who you are and you know,
your journey and all these things.
But first, you know, I got to ask you the question, you know, every dental student and
dental professional has like the reason for why they, you know, chose to pursue this field.
So I was wondering, you know, what is your why?
What ignited that spark in you and motivated you to get you, you know, where you are today?
Yeah, sure.
So I actually started at Northeastern University as a physical therapy major and my family has
a couple of friends who are dentists and I always kind of admired and respected their
field and I kind of saw the lifestyle that they've had.
They've always kind of had a really good balance between family and career and that's something
that I was kind of thinking about.
But I ended up getting into the six year doctorate of physical therapy program at Northeastern,
which was like super cool, but I had no idea what I was getting myself into to be honest.
And it was kind of like a gut feeling that physical therapy was not for me.
It's kind of embarrassing to even say this, but like I set up a shadowing opportunity with
the physical therapist just to kind of dig deep.
And I didn't even call like, I know that sounds so bad, but like I think reflecting now upon
like the freshman year in college, Diana, I like had no passion to like do the homework
that was assigned to me.
Like I didn't really know why I was there.
I think I just kind of like clicked a checkbox that says physical therapy and it like obviously
reflecting on it, that is not the best way of being a student.
But those things kind of accumulated and I realized that my passion didn't really lie
within physical therapy.
I knew I wanted to be in the healthcare field for sure.
In Brooklyn Tech, we have like bio majors.
So we took Oregon anatomy and things like that.
But I think to me it's kind of through shadowing, through doing a summer program as a pre-dental,
that's kind of where it was really solidified for me.
Yeah.
I think what your story kind of embodies like what everyone kind of fears, like they have
to get it figured out by this kind of day, like before they even get to college.
I know there's like some programs, like there's a dental program, the seven year, eight year
I think, they're both at your eight year meta dental program, they're all kind of the same.
So it's very, it's like comforting to know that you don't have to have it figured out
by the time you get to college.
You know, you sell a little bit of time, you know, college is like that time to grow and
like figure out what you want to do.
So can you like touch a little bit on your undergraduate experience, like, you know,
how you kind of solidified your pursuit of dentistry?
Yeah, sure.
So when I came in as a physical therapy major, I was, you know, still taking courses that
were considered prerequisites towards dentistry.
So it's not like a complete waste of time, if that makes sense.
But I slowly started to move away from physical therapy and I changed majors to biology.
I decided to pursue a health science minor, which kind of had courses like community and
public health and like public policy classes.
And those types of courses were always something that I was really interested in.
So I was able to transform that into a minor.
So that kind of goes into my extra curriculars as well, you know, like health disparities
and doing volunteer work.
So it all kind of kind of came together.
In terms of college, I think I ended up taking a gap year.
So that's something that's really important to kind of know.
Because I feel like when you're not ready to apply and you're kind of forcing yourself,
sometimes people aren't as successful as they hope to be.
So I kind of wanted to give myself enough time to study for the DAT and apply with a
whole couple of months to only dedicate towards the application, as opposed to dividing my
time between studying and also personal statement and also getting letters of rec.
Like to me, that was a little bit too much all at once.
So I decided to take the DAT in 2016 and then I applied in 2017 to get into school 2018.
So I definitely took my time with that.
And again, I don't think academics were definitely the reason why I got into dental school, but
I think it's the actual curriculars that really helped out for me.
Yeah, so you yourself went from a physical therapy track to pre-dental.
And there's a lot of other students that go from medical to dental during undergrad.
So what was the best way?
And how did you organize your classwork, your coursework, and kind of your activities and
stuff?
So how did you kind of go about, what was your experience of transferring to the pre-dental
track?
Like what was that like for you?
Yeah, so I think that one of the most important things is to be strategic throughout the entire
dental school process.
A lot of people feel like there's so much stress associated with it and there is definitely,
but there's some things that you can implement.
In terms of coursework, I always really like to emphasize the fact that sometimes when people
take one class, it takes, and you have only like three exams, for example, right?
It takes the first exam to figure out how your professor asks questions and then changing
your study schedule and changing those things.
And then by the time you're at your midterm and then you've already had a bad grade, so
there's not quite enough time to kind of figure things out.
And so one thing that I started doing during my third and fourth year was taking class,
taking upper level courses in biology from professors that I had taken courses from before.
Obviously, that's not always possible, but that's something that really helped because
I already knew how this professor was going to be asking questions and I already felt
comfortable going to office hours, for example.
So I always kind of encourage if you have the ability to take an upper level course,
like taking a biochem and a microbiome with the same professor, I always like to tell
pre-dental students to do that because I think that is building a relationship and then
you ask them for an evaluation or a letter of rec.
And so like it all kind of comes together.
So that I think is really helpful.
The other thing is kind of opening as many doors as possible, but also thinking about
it as not just choosing coursework based on the pre-rex, but also choosing the coursework
that might make you a successful dental student.
So pathology, I don't think it's actually like a prerequisite for any of the courses
or any schools, but I think that taking pathology would have helped me.
Taking histology would have helped me, not just the bare minimum of taking anatomy,
biochem, or whatever it is.
So I think that changing your mindset from being like, what do I have to do to get into
dental school and changing it more towards what can I do now to prepare myself to be
a successful dental student is kind of the better way to look at coursework in undergrad.
I know, even before I schedule my course, I always look at like rate my professor, those
kind of things to know that if your professor is really strict on certain coursework and
to know like if you can, you know, if you have to take a professor for a certain course,
that's not the best.
And you can't simply with other courses, like you can choose professors a little more easier
to kind of balance your workload.
So just things to consider.
I feel like when you register for classes.
So that can also be a hurdle.
So did you have like any other major hurdles you have to face during your undergraduate
career, like I don't know, academics or just like balancing life and the books and kind
of just maintaining your pursuit of dentistry?
Yeah, I think for me, the biggest hurdle was the mathematical calculation of having, I
think, two pretty bad semesters at the beginning.
So I had two semesters, I think the first two that pretty much kind of made it mathematically
impossible for me to like have a 4.0 GPA, right?
So it took a lot of strategic planning on my part in order to get my GPA up because if
you think about it, it's always going to be like the average of the semesters.
So like you can't always go as high as like, you know, every pre-dental student wants to
have a 3.9, for example.
So I think in undergrad, my biggest hurdle was doing well in those like Orgo one class
and biochem, you know, those are the ones that were really difficult, especially, I
mean, I know the DAT talks about like ecology and plant biology and stuff like that.
Like I did pretty poorly in some of these classes that I knew were going to be very
important.
And to combat that, for example, I kind of had to either take upper level courses to
kind of show that like, you know, I may have not gotten the best score in ecology one-on-one,
but I did way better in like molecular cell bio, for example.
That's one.
The other thing for Orgo is I just kind of really focused on the DAT to get a really
good Orgo score so that I can reflect on that during an interview if that's what's being
asked.
Like, yes, I didn't do that hot in Orgo one.
But as you can see, like on my DAT section, like that just shows that I learned the material,
maybe it'd be like two, three years later, but just so that they're aware that that's
kind of, you know, like there was some improvement to be done.
Calc also, like I didn't do that well in Calc one.
I did really well in Calc two.
And I actually asked that professor to write me a letter of recommendation talking about
the improvement that I've done from Calc one to Calc two.
So everything to me was a little bit more strategic in terms of letters of rec and all
of that coming together.
And I think like, you know, taking a course, I lost my train of thought real quick.
What was it?
Oh, you may struggle in a few courses, but I feel like even if your GP is not that high,
there's a reason why everyone takes these DAT exams and these MCATs or whatever admissions
test it is to get into graduate school, there's a reason why they take that.
So in case, you know, you don't do the best during one of these pre-wrestling courses,
you can show the admissions committees that you did really well and you struggled and
you like studied really hard and got a better score.
And I feel like many people don't think about that, but you know, even if you did bad in
Orgo, you got to retake it, you do better, maybe even like TA the course, like if you
TA the course, maybe you can learn better about teaching other people.
So so I think that's just like some things that pre-downs want to like look out for.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
So, Dr. Kim, can you just walk us through the dental school application itself?
Like maybe even some of your personal experiences with the DAT, personal statement, you know,
actually writing the application, stuff like that.
Yeah.
So I think the timeline part is very important, right?
So a lot of pre-dental students are like super adamant on not taking gap years for,
you know, like no one wants to wait a whole year, that sort of thing.
So I was the same way.
I started the process January of the year that I thought I was going to apply.
And at that point, I needed to take the DAT.
I needed to do all of everything to get all that together.
And I did, but I almost kind of like half did it.
Like I was just, I like knew it in my heart that I was like not ready, but I just was
so stubborn and I was like, no, I'm going to try.
I'm going to keep going, you know.
And then so I studied for the DAT for about two, three months.
And I realized like I didn't have a personal statement at that point.
And I would kind of have to like whip something up.
And to me, that didn't feel satisfying.
So even though I went through all of the, you know, the checklist of asking for letters
of rec, like I still had that, which was good.
But then I decided not to apply.
So I was happy with the DAT score that I got that year.
And then I spent the whole next year while I was doing, you know, graduating and whatnot.
And that's when I really kind of did everything the right way.
So it was still helpful for me to start asking for letters of rec and start thinking about
everything, start writing the application blurbs, you know, like every single activity
that you've done.
I started doing that, but then it gave me like the breathing room for the whole next year
to actually kind of perfect it.
So this is kind of saying like for those people who are either their parents are like, no,
you have to apply now or are really adamant about applying.
Sometimes you have to really kind of reflect and kind of have that intuition of whether
like this is the cycle for you.
Because it worked out for me the following cycle.
And I always think about this now.
If I had applied before, then I would have been in the class above and I feel like my
class is so, so much better, you know what I mean?
Like I always, I think everything does happen for a reason.
I think just to not be so stubborn as to apply when, you know, you personally are not ready
is something that I learned throughout that application.
In terms of personal statement, I think for me, I knew what I wanted to write about.
I didn't know how to put it on paper.
And I think the biggest thing is not just answering by dentistry.
I think it's what's unique about you.
So for me, for example, I grew up in Uzbekistan and I speak Russian.
And that's something that was always, you know, like ice breaker time, two truths and
a lie.
Like that was always something that was really unique and memorable about me.
And so I was kind of able to connect my experience in like a third role country and the healthcare
that I saw there to my experiences with global medical brigades and how I saw myself in those
little kids that I saw in Panama.
And then somehow, you know, you have to kind of make it all connect.
And I think that I was able to do that by showcasing one unique thing about me and like
a really big extracurricular global medical brigades that I that was really important
to me.
So between those things and the physical therapy aspects of things, those were like, I want
to say the big three topics, switching majors, you know, my unique background and global
medical brigades, those were my three topics that I was able to kind of piece together
in my personal statement.
And I think you said that you founded that chapter at your school, right?
So can you touch a little bit upon that?
I'm kind of interested in hearing about that because I know at our school we have VAW,
which is kind of, I don't know if it's similar, but I went on the trip personally and I just
want to hear what your experience was like.
I think going on these international trips, I think it's something like it's a had to
be there moment.
Like it's difficult to explain to people the effect that it has on you unless someone
else has been there or has done similar work.
So I actually had a medical school friend who went on global brigades through Brooklyn
College and he was telling me everything about it.
And I was like, I want to do that.
Like, and we didn't have a chapter.
I'm very, I like all that like organizational type of stuff.
So I wanted to start the chapter and it was very difficult.
And I think the first year we wanted to go, first of all, there was a lot of like safety
concerns with going to a foreign country.
So we couldn't recruit enough volunteers.
We couldn't get enough like healthcare professionals to come with us.
So the first year was kind of like my application cycle.
I like half did it, but it helped me like to do it for real the following year.
So after we founded it, we actually ended up bringing 35 volunteers to Panama.
So we spent three days in, you know, like the school setting up the clinic.
So I, I was kind of, you know, delegating who was going to be at which station, that
sort of thing.
I loved that.
And a lot of the volunteers are actually like doctors, PAs, dentists now.
So it's like, it's really nice to have that community.
But more importantly, you know, there was also a public health aspect.
So we were physically building latrines.
And, you know, as cool as this experience was, I think it's less so about what you do.
It's more so about how you explain it on your application, right?
So you don't have to go to Panama and build the trains in order to get into dental school.
You can do anything else that floats your boat that you have passion for, but it's more
importantly the language, the sentences that you use to describe it and the way that you
reflect on it so that you don't just say like, I sterilize dental insurance or I did this
and this.
It's more like a little bit more, a little bit more reflective, a little bit more about
how you, what you learn, what skills you learn throughout that experience.
So I'm like huge on not doing research just to do it or not doing outreach just to do
it, but more so doing what you want to do, but then taking the real time to like explain
it in a way that is very reflective.
Yeah.
And that kind of follows like the whole like, you know, do a few things really, really well,
rather than like a bunch of things, like just to do them.
Like true, even like in high school applications, any kind of application, I feel like if you
show them the actual passion for it, then they'll actually take it to heart instead
of just saying, okay, cool.
So like what'd you do about it?
And you can really feel it.
I think some people are like, oh, like I did 20 hours of like whatever volunteer work,
but then like if I ask a pre-dental student about it, like, oh, tell me more about this.
Like you can see passion versus like, yeah, I did it just to do it.
Like to me, that part is really important.
Yeah.
100%.
So I wanted to kind of go back to your gap year.
So like a lot of people have this notion they're surrounded by all these pre-dental students.
So like they're all applying this in this three year, essentially three year cycle, like
three year, three years to build up your application that apply in June or whatever.
And a lot of people get stuck in that, but it sounds like you didn't get stuck in that.
Like you had that, you had that mature, I guess, maturation, you're mature enough to
like understand that you need more time yourself.
So what's some advice to some students that you think that could benefit from like a gap
year?
And what was like your experience and how'd you, I don't know, like how'd you strengthen
your application?
So I would say that I was very lucky.
I went to Northeastern University and we have a co-op program.
So instead of applying or instead of graduating in four years, we actually graduated in five
years.
So when you think about it, plus my gap year, I've actually been two years out of, you know,
between that time.
And so during the co-op, basically what it is, is it's six months of you being placed
at an internship with, in whatever fields and you're getting paid and there's no homework,
there's no exams, like it's amazing.
And you get a real life experience of knowing what it's like to work in that field.
So I had friends who were, you know, engineers or, you know, they were actually like in graphic
design.
So they like worked at different companies in Boston.
Like that was really good for me.
So I worked at that dental implant company and it was six months.
It paid really well.
I got a lot of experience, clinical administrative, all of that.
And then I became part-time.
And then I eventually turned that into a full-time position that I did during my gap year.
So one of the things that I will say in terms of advice on the gap year is people feel like
during the gap year, you have to do something clinical.
Like people think that that's what dental schools are looking for.
But knowing everything that I know now from dental school, I actually think that people
need to focus on communication skills.
One, public speaking skills, two, and administrative things.
Because when you're a dental student, like you're still calling your patients most times,
right?
I'm sure there's a handful of schools that schedule patients for you or whatever.
But you're still calling patients.
So if you're really nervous about talking to patients on the phone, or if you're not comfortable
treatment planning and explaining things to people from a communication standpoint, then
you are already not going to be as successful as you can possibly be in dental school, right?
So through my gap year, I was doing basically front desk.
I was scheduling patients, taking payments, invoicing that sort of stuff.
That was not clinical, technically.
But it taught me the insurance side of things.
It taught me how to deal with really inpatient patients who are yelling at you.
And you know, like, sorry, you have to pay.
Like, you know, and you learn those skills.
And that to me is very valuable.
Obviously, doing the assisting in a clinical setting is great also.
But I think a lot of people struggle third and fourth year with the administrative stuff.
Like, how do I organize my roster full of like 40 patients?
And I kind of had a system because that's kind of a system that I was using when I was
scheduling patients before, you know, so I think every experience kind of fits into
it like a puzzle.
So pre-dental students, I guess you shouldn't be focused too much on just looking for clinical
shadowing experiences because you can get a lot from being an admin, a front desk,
you know, insurance part of things or anything like that.
Yeah.
So I work in an office too.
And you know, like more times than one, than none, there's like administrative, like
people, the ladies at the front desk will come back and complain about patients like
yelling at them and stuff.
And I'm like, thank God, I don't have to deal with that.
But on the other side, I'm like, you will.
I know.
But like they asked me, sometimes patients ask me like, so is my shirt going to cover
this?
I'm like, I have no idea.
And even the doctor like doesn't know.
And I was like, I feel like we should know somebody these things so that maybe we can
tell them if it's a positive honest answer that they'll feel a little bit better in that
situation.
You know, there's, there's times where like, I'm like, I kind of wish I knew a little
bit more than administrative side, just so, you know, it's not just clinical base.
And I know it's going to help me in the future.
So yeah.
I was going to say in dental school, people think that you're just a student.
You're also like the front desk.
You are the secretary that's also faxing the medical consults.
You're also your own lab assistant because you're pouring up your own models.
Like you are playing all of those things.
So it's really nice if whatever job you have, let's say you have an assisting job, right?
You can also be like, Oh, hey, like I'm curious about how you go about sterilizing or, hey,
can I get cross-trained at the front desk and maybe pick up the phone once in a while?
Like just to get yourself comfortable with that.
Because that would help a lot.
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit about your, about your interview process, right?
So I wanted to hear a little bit about, you know, you know, how your interview experience
was and, you know, how did you choose which schools to attend and apply to?
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I think the real, okay.
So I think a lot of pre-dental students have this thought like, okay, I want to get as many
interviews before December 1st and then I'll make my decision and like, that's great.
What I found, especially for me was the, the acceptances did not come in the most convenient
way possible.
Like, yes, I got a couple of acceptances December 1st.
I, did I put down a deposit?
Um, yes, I put down a deposit for one of like the three schools that I heard about.
And then as soon as I put down that deposit, I got an interview to a different school.
And so like the way it works is like, you're never going to have like all the cars.
Like here are six schools that are accepting you like now you choose.
The reality is you just say no to this school.
You just say yes to this school, but then your first choice is going to be like, oh,
in a month you have an interview.
So I think people need to be prepared to make those decisions.
And if necessary, drop deposits as you go.
Like I ended up putting down three deposits and from a financial standpoint, it really
sucked because Stony Brooks was like 350 at the time, which is like nothing compared to
BU, which is like, I believe 2,500 something like that.
Right.
Um, but you have to do that.
Right.
Like you're not going to be like, no, no, BU.
Like I'm going to wait for my for Penn to get back to me.
Like, no, because at that point you just have to make those decisions as they come along.
So for me, I was kind of between two very expensive schools, um, one in an area that
I would live in.
The other one would be like very much out of my comfort zone.
It was on the West Coast.
Um, and then Stony Brook.
So I did the summer dental program at Stony Brook.
So I was a little bit more familiar with faculty, you know, upperclassmen and kind of there's
definitely a lot of benefits to having a lower tuition.
Um, with all that being said, like I do think that I made the best decision for me during
that time, because I think there are pros and cons to all of those things, but coming
out with less loans, I feel like was so much more important to me than the things that,
you know, I was able to get from those schools because at the end of the day, yes, it's all
about what school offers you.
I just found a lot of times dental students don't actually take advantage of everything
that's being offered.
Right.
And there's, you know, a lot of people make decisions based on like, oh, this person,
this place doesn't have as much research, but I feel like if research is so, so important
to you, there is going to be a research opportunity.
You may have to work a little bit harder for it, but I think all the opportunities are
there for people regardless of what school you go to.
Um, so that's kind of where I fell in.
I wanted to do the, like the clinical aspect.
I wanted to be a little bit closer to home and the tuition is like way, way less at Stony
Brook.
So yeah.
And um, you know, the second part of getting an acceptance is like the interview part.
And this all goes back to like, in the administration side, like it kind of start from there, you
start building up your ability to speak to people, ability to connect to like your interviewer.
Um, so I just wanted to ask, like, how was your interview experience?
Like, did you, um, like prepare rigorously for it?
Did you just kind of go in there knowing, knowing what you know and just being yourself?
Yeah.
So I think a couple of things, and I already started telling some of the people that I
like work with, I think once you apply to the time that you get your first interview,
people are like sitting and waiting and waiting and waiting, but I actually think that the
best thing to do is already start figuring out your interviewing situation.
Like pretend I also believe in like manifesting and stuff like that.
So I think that students should start preparing for interviews as if they already got this
interview because what happens, especially when it becomes after December 1st, like before
December 1st, you got an interview in September and they're like, Hey, like come in end of
October.
So you have a month to prepare.
Great.
So if it's in December, January, February, it's more like, Hey, can you come tomorrow?
And you're like, what?
Like I don't have enough time to prepare, but you would be crazy to say no to that interview.
Right.
So this like, anxiousness and the nervousness of waiting can be so much better if you just
start very casually looking into things, writing things out.
So what I did was I looked up, there's a bunch of like different interview questions
everywhere.
So I would just answer them in paragraph form and I would bold the things that I definitely
wanted to visually like remember to say.
That way it's not like you're not memorizing word for word what you're going to say when
they ask you identity, but you're going to remember like, Oh, I want to talk about this.
I want to talk about this and this, right.
And then everything else comes out a little bit smoother.
So I would say one, I would say start preparing as if you have all 16 interviews lined up
so that you're more prepared to talking to dental students at those schools.
At Stonyburg, for example, we have our third and fourth year.
So the second years are doing the school tours and then the third and fourth years are actually
interviewing and we actually write an evaluation, you know.
So knowing as many dental students as possible is going to help a lot.
And those are actually going to be the people who are going to be partially evaluating you
in some form or another, you know.
So talking to dental students, that's really important.
And just answering as many questions as possible in paragraph form like on a Google doc and
printing things out and just talking to yourself, you know, like if you're bored, just asking
yourself questions and pretending to answer them in a really good way.
So the public speaking aspect of things is also going to come into play as well.
And then I think one more thing is trying really hard not to get jaded by the interview experience.
I felt like the first interview, I was super excited.
I was super passionate and by the sixth interview, I had six.
By the sixth one, I was like kind of more mellow and I feel like that was the school
that didn't really feel the fire, the passion that I really wanted to go to that school.
And that's not because there wasn't.
I was just tired of interviewing.
So just kind of not getting to that point where you're tired of answering questions because
you can also see that.
Yeah, that's that's also a really good point.
Like maybe that mental fatigue with answering the same questions over and over again.
I guess something you have to overcome, you know, when I do get to when we do get to that
point, you know, like something we got to keep in mind that it's not like a big deal,
but it can definitely sway some of your dental school applications or acceptances, you know,
way or another.
So now you have your acceptances, right?
And so what factors kind of went into, you know, choosing Sonya Burke as the best school
for you?
I want to kind of hear a little bit about, you know, what highlights of the school that
you really fell in love with and, you know, why ultimately ultimately decided to come
here.
Yeah, I think for me, knowing some upperclassmen, that was something that was kind of important
to me.
I got a chance to meet a bunch of them during the program and I know that it's kind of
important to know some people, those are the people that are going to kind of help you
through digital dentistry was something that's really important to me.
And I knew that Sonya Burke kind of had that as well as the clinical skills.
Our school is very small.
So Sonya Burke, we had 46 people and coming from Brooklyn Tech, which had like literally
1400 in my class only all throughout high school, right?
I was really used to that big class environment.
I thought, you know, I wouldn't like it at first, but I think that's something that I
really enjoyed having for four years.
And then the other thing is the medical school during the first year where with the med students.
So I actually made a lot of med student friends who are now in Philly with me too.
And you know, like that kind of expands the network.
So you're not only just hanging out with the same 46 students from Sonya Burke.
Tuition, I would say was a big thing, like I said, but you know, it's kind of a gut feeling
like I could see myself going there.
And sometimes you, I like did not see myself going to Arizona.
Even though I do think that clinically, I probably would have like graduated with more
clinical experience.
But what I got from Sonya Burke was qualitative experiences that I can't describe.
Like I can text some of my professors from there and be like, hey, I don't know what to do.
And those are relationships and mentorships that I was able to get because we're such a small class
size and those opportunities were there for me.
Yeah.
Yeah, no, that's great.
And I think, you know, I think Sonya Burke and Harvard, I believe are like the smallest
class sizes.
I know Buffalo is like 95 or something.
He had a D2 student, Paul DeMars will come last year.
Yeah, Paul.
No, Paul.
So he talked about, you know, how great Buffalo is and how it's not just in the middle of nowhere.
We get to ask him that.
Okay.
But, you know, that's what he said.
But yeah, so that small class is definitely like very attractive.
So I'm going to switch gears here.
So is there any advice like you'd like to give pre-downal students in relations like
maintaining their academic life while also nourishing their like mental and emotional
health?
I know you're very, you're very adamant on that kind of thing.
Yeah, I think there's this misconception that it has to be a stressful process.
And I think combined with the perfectionist type A personalities that pre-downal people have,
it's kind of a recipe for disaster because you may survive the dental school application process.
But then when you add on the 20 different courses, all of that gets piled on.
And if you don't start implementing those things or like as a pre-downal students,
like while you're waiting for those interviews, like that is the best time to start working
out to start sleeping quality sweep meal prepping.
All those things.
So this is something that I always say, I started as a D1 in August and I was like,
this is great new life, new me like that sort of vibe.
And I was like, I'm going to start meal prepping.
I'm going to start working out.
I'm also going to like not procrastinate.
I'm going to like I have like literally a list of 20 things that I was like,
I'm going to start now.
And obviously with building habits, there's so many things that you just,
you can't physically implement 20 new habits.
So I would say during your gap year or coming into like the summer into dental school,
that's the best time to do things that are important to you, but implement them strategically
so that when you're starting in August, you're not like all of a sudden waking up and also
like there's just too many things to do.
Having a hobby, something that's really important to you is something that really helped me.
And I think that people who do have hobbies in dental school do better than those who constantly
say no to social activities to study because at the end of the day, that person may only get
like four points higher on an exam than someone else.
But then what happens is with every social activity you go to, you build connections,
you build friends, and those are people who will have your back in clinic.
You know, like I always think that every single thing that you do and where you put your energy,
it has some sort of outcome down the line.
So you obviously don't want to do that just for that, but you find that through studying with friends,
you gain those relationships and you can rely on more people and you have that support during
those difficult times in dental school.
So I always say that, you know, first year, a lot of dental students say like, oh no, like,
I'm going to focus first year on academics and then I'll get involved day two year.
And I'm actually like the opposite, like I think you should get involved now because then you have
your foot in the door and then you can go for like e-board positions and down the line.
Like if you only become a member of an organization as a D2, then you're applying to
residency as a D3, right?
Like you don't really have as much opportunity to get really deep into an organization.
So I just say yes all of D1 year. Obviously there's a balance, right?
But saying yes to social activities to like extracurricular activities and then D2 is really
when you start saying no to the things that didn't work for you and start saying yes to the things
that you want to explore more.
And then D3 is like there and then you apply if you want to specialize or do residencies and then
D4 like doesn't actually exist because you're mentally checking out your career,
you're mentally checking out, you're taking boards.
There's like, it's a lot shorter than you think, I guess is what I'm trying to say.
I don't know if I answered your original question.
I think like there's people that will just study all day.
Yes.
Great, great for them. Like it's great. You should do that.
But also make some time to like be a human and just do what you like to do.
Like me personally, I like to, you know, when I took Orgo 2, whatever I did,
I was taking the class like in the fall semester, but I made sure like at least three or four times
a week, I'd go play basketball at the rec just like with the boys, you know, just kind of release
some stress. Even if I was tired, just go because I know it'll be a good time.
Just kind of like bring yourself back down to, you know, give your brain a little rest break.
Yeah.
Kind of give you some time to be social because at the end of the day, like it all goes back to this
whole being able to interact with other people as a dentist, right? It's all about social interaction
stuff like that. So if you get stuck in this, in this like book mentality, 24 seven, it's not
going to be good in the long, in the long run, I guess.
Yeah, I completely agree.
And yeah. And so on that kind of note of, you know, mental health and kind of remaining social,
you know, I know that you do a lot of pre-dental mentorship and I guess just simple coaching,
you know, you know, coaching where, you know, you, the students can reach out to you and kind of,
you can get put their mind at ease with whatever their, whatever obstacles they're facing. So
how can students get involved and interact with these coaches that, you know, can ultimately
help them mentally and physically, you know, throughout their undergraduate career and possibly
even their dental school.
Yeah, totally. So I think that one is just showing up. I think that every experience, you know, whether
it be a dinner and learn, it's such a small world in dentistry that, you know, one random guest
speaker comes in, you listen to them and then that person may have, like, maybe friends with
your future employer down the line. So I try to kind of make as many connections as possible and
put yourself further and further out there. So I used to make myself like kind of like small goals.
Like my goal today is like, I don't know, ask a random question in front of the whole, like,
whatever, just to like force myself to speak up, to practice raising my hand and saying something,
even if it comes out weird or whatever it is. Or I used to push the AGD members, we went to a
conference altogether, and I was like, ask them a question after the class ends, like class ends,
just ask them, say something, I don't know what it is, but you have to start practicing saying
things. And when it comes to mentorships, like those things are, no one is really going to be like,
hello, I am looking for a mentor, someone that I can bring under my wing and like teach you
everything like that doesn't happen, that is a very natural kind of progression. You maybe you
ask that professor a question, and maybe that professor sends you an article that addresses
that question. And it's like watering up plants, like you can't just expect that like, one professor
is going to be your mentor, like for the end of dental school type of thing. So showing up,
I always say that like, I know, especially the underclassmen, when they come to meetings and
things like, I know who's always there, like even if it's on zoom, okay, like, even if it's in person,
I know there's like, hey, that person has been there like a lot. So obviously that contributes to
any discussion, whether like, eboard members are choosing future people to go over like, to become
president or whatever it is, like, those are considerations, because I'm always like, okay,
like, two people are running against each other or whatever. And I'm like, but that person has
literally been to every single volunteering event. And like, that person has shown interest and
initiative and helped out and like, so I don't always obviously I don't always choose, but
it's kind of like, I noticed it. So then next time an opportunity comes up, I'm always like, hey,
so and so, there's this work study position that opens up. And that's kind of my way of like,
seeing who shows up, who puts in the effort, and then giving them back something that, you know,
I feel like they deserve. So that is something really important in terms of going to conferences,
I think that's huge, right? If that's especially when you're a student, everything is free. When
you become a resident, everything's like $300. So I would say yes to as many as events,
national as events, like, AGD, everything, you know, those are things where you meet someone,
like you're standing in line to get food. And I literally met the founder person of the Hispanic
Dental Association. And then he was like, Hey, like this and that. And now I literally me and
my friend just reach out to him. And we're like, Hey, when's the next CEC course? We're like,
these things are just like, they light me up. And I get so super excited when I meet people and
I meet them again a year later. And then I feel more comfortable coming up to them. And
that's kind of how you start fostering a relationship. To address your mentoring question,
I think the reason why I'm super passionate about mentoring is like, when I was applying,
there were not this many resources. So like podcasts like this, didn't really exist. There's
like maybe a couple of YouTube people, right? Now there's like social media, Instagram pages,
there's so many people willing and open to give advice and provide resources and everywhere from
like pre-dental to like seasoned specialists, I think that is so much more available. So I kind
of felt like I was kind of lost in the whole process. And I kind of wish I had someone who I
can be like, Hey, should I take this or this? Like, should I take this class? When should I take the
DAT? And that's kind of the role that I kind of fulfill right now with some of the pre-dental
students that I work with. Because a lot of it comes from accountability, right? So I'm sure
people are like, Yeah, I'm going to study. And then it's like a month goes by and you're like,
still not studying. So having someone who's going to give you like deadlines or checkpoints or
check in with you, there's a little bit more accountability. And then students are able to
kind of progress a little bit more strategically throughout the whole process. So that's something
that I really like doing. I've been working with pre-dental students like on a monthly basis,
bi-weekly, whatever works for them, because everyone's journey is super, super different.
So some people have like high DATs and low GPAs. And some people have high GPAs, but like haven't
taken the DAT or maybe have taken it twice already, you know, like everyone's in such a
different position that I feel like you need someone to kind of bounce those ideas.
And I know like your whole belief is like, I guess, treat undergraduate as if you're preparing and
building those habits to become like as a dental student, not just get into dental school, because
if you think of dental school as like an end goal, yeah, that's not, obviously it's not. But
And people said to me, they used to tell me like, Oh, like the hardest part is getting in and then
everything is like easy because it's really hard to get like kicked out. Like that was kind of the
mentality. So I thought like, I just got to get in and then like, I'm good. No, like I really
feel like you just have to start implementing other things, new skills. And the mental health part
didn't come into my life until COVID. I think COVID was pretty much like, of course, that was
such a like a dark timeframe for everyone. But from my life personally, I focused more on it.
And I realized how many things I've been neglecting because of dental school. And with the given time
and being like literally stuck at home, I started to re implement nutrition and like taking care
of myself and doing yoga because back pain is so real in dental school, right. So I think for me
two years of dental school was like just going 200 miles per hour, just go and go and going and like
studying and then forgetting everything that you studied all that stuff. And then in COVID, I kind
of like slowed down and I realized, I don't want to do that thing that I keep saying yes to. And I
want to focus more time on myself or, you know, saying notes of those things. So this is not like,
I haven't always had a focus on wellness, I guess it's been very recent.
Right. So like kind of going on that, like how was your first couple years of dental school? Can
you walk us through like D1 to D4? Like how was it? How did you feel going into D1 year? And like,
what was how was your progression like? Yeah, so I knew going in that clinically I was going to be
stronger than didactically for sure, because I knew that like classes like that, like biochem was
difficult for me. And now you just do the same biochem, but in like two months instead, you know,
I think the biggest thing with didactics is studying with someone. So I was able to find two
friends who are like my closest friends now, we used to make a schedule and you know, like you
have to do the math, like if there's 20 lectures and the exam is in two weeks, you need to do 20
lectures divided by like eight days. And then so you have time to do questions. So we kind of made
a schedule so that you know, coming into that study set schedule, like you're going to the library
and like, you know that if you didn't do those two lectures, you have nothing to contribute to your
like group session type of thing. And then slowly we would just like implement writing on the dry
race board and explaining each concept to one another. And I believe that when you can teach it
to someone else, that's truly when you actually understand the concept. And it's not just word
recognition, right? So that's like active recall, because a lot of pre-dental students also like,
oh, I did like one chapter on like plan biology. And I'm like, okay, cool, like, what did you learn?
And then we're sitting there for like 60 seconds, because they don't remember what they learned,
even though they spent four hours learning it, right? So the active recall is something that
was really important for me to learn and studying with a friend was definitely something. Second
year was rough, because you're not just taking difficult courses, you're just taking like,
20 different courses all at once. And I think I listened to your first episode,
whereas it was like, it's not like semester based, like you're not taking like three classes for four
months, it's more like you take one class, you take the exam, it ends and you want starts, but the
other one is still ending, like, it's, you don't have that clear cut, like, okay, now I'm going to
like start fresh, that you don't have that you're just constantly going. And then clinic, I think
you just start to re-implement different things. And being okay with not knowing everything and
not knowing everything and being okay, not doing everything perfectly. I think that's something
that's really important. I think that things got better definitely, but my first year, I would say
was the hardest actually. Yeah, so you know, of course, you know, throughout dental school and
probably undergrad too, like, you know, you might have run into some clinical and possibly academic
failures and obstacles throughout your career. So how did you approach them and how did you
kind of overcome them? Like, what methods did you use? Like, did you listen to anything? Did you just
kind of, you know, got it out or did you find a way around it some other way? Yeah. So I actually
rely a lot of my like personal growth on like different podcasts. So I want to just like put a
couple of things out there. So there's this one book, it's called How to Win, How to Influence
People, How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie. So that's something really good
for interviews, where he talks about like how to connect with someone in like a micro moment.
Like you're standing in an elevator and like what can you say to kind of like
find commonalities with someone and that's something that's really important for interviews.
So that's a side thing. For failures, I actually started listening to the Heberman podcast and
basically what he talks about is motivation and failure. And the way he says it is in order to be
good at something, let's say you have to fail 20 times. It's like, it's just, that's just how it
is. Like for example, I remember the second year, you're like probing. Probing is like literally
the most easiest, like no harm done. Like, but when you're second year, you're just like,
I can't see anything. I don't think I'm probing right. Like it feels like the end of the world.
But when you do it five times, 10 times, 20 times, you gain that confidence. So just being okay with
the fact that like in order for you to feel confident and good at something, you need to do it badly,
let's say 10 times. And once I started to really think about that, then I was just like, okay,
I'm just going to do it one more time. And the more you do it, even if you're improving by like this
much, you're getting somewhere like doing recalls as a second year was like two and a half appointments,
a total of eight hours technically, right. And then by D four, it took us like half an appointment.
So it's almost just being focused on the fact that you almost have to
do it bad until you get really good. And then also this idea of clinical,
accept clinically acceptable. So like, when you're doing things in preclin, they want you to do like
five millimeter, 1.5 millimeters by 1.5 millimeters, that's how big your prep is. But in real life,
it's however big the cavity is, right. So like, you're not really going to be measuring yourself
based on a certain measurement, you're going off your gut feeling and your visual and tactile
feeling of how big this cavity is, right. So knowing that it doesn't have to be perfect,
it just has to be good enough to not harm the patient. Like, and I think being okay with that
is something that took us a very, very long time to kind of understand. Also atomic habits is a
really, really good book that made all the difference in terms of understanding like how I
function and what habits I want to implement and things like that. Yeah. I think like, you know,
your analogy of like, failing a bunch of times and eventually getting it right. I didn't, I didn't
have a day, like you were going to be the dentist. You, there's nobody that's going to look over your
shoulder in your practice and be like, you have to do this, you do this. It's kind of like,
you got to put on yourself that from all your training, all your failures,
that these are the best options for your patient. And like, and like, I've always wanted to ask
my, I don't know why I haven't asked him yet, but I've always wanted to ask a doctor I work with,
like, when was the point in your dental school journey where you knew this was the right option?
Like, sometimes he's talking about the options. He can give a patient, I'm like, how do you know
this is the best one? Like, how is this the best one? How do you make the patient comfortable
than knowing this is the best option for them? Like, how do you convince them? You know? So like,
did you ever have, did you have like that moment? Like, I don't know how that thought. I think it's,
it's a little, so when you're working in clinic, the patients motivation and priorities are important,
right? So if I know my patient is just trying to get a crown, for example, then you want like,
okay, I don't know what a better example would be, but I guess you have to prioritize what their
priorities are, right? Is it that they can, they'd rather do more in one appointment or would they,
like, or do they have to pick up their daughter at like three o'clock? So you have 45 minutes with
them. So like, understanding why they're here and what's important to them is going, is inherently
going to help you guide your treatment planning based on that. So I had a patient who would come in
in the morning and the afternoon, and I would like, she would have her PG periopoietman in the morning,
and I would make her come in with me at two o'clock, so that we did not make her drive two
hours for each appointment. Like, and she felt really like help, like, she was very happy with
that. And she trusted me more. And so we tried to expedite things in ways that I wouldn't do for
someone else who's like, not down to spend the whole day with me to do dentistry. Like, you know
what I mean? And the other thing that I, in terms of failures that I just thought about is I, I hope
this doesn't sound weird, but for my crowns in dental school, like, I somehow survived with like,
all of them like fitting, right? Okay. And obviously at the time I was like, oh, like,
it's so great, like, I didn't have to make any adjustments, blah, blah, blah. And like, that
was great. That's wonderful. I was able to graduate, like I wasn't really stressed with like, the
graduation requirements. But now that I'm in residency, and I am taking over cases and a
crown doesn't fit, I'm like, I kind of wish one of my crowns in dental school did not fit so that
I knew how to troubleshoot those scenarios. And a lot of times when you make those mistakes as a
dental student, you are so much more, it's so much more vivid in your mind, so that every time, like,
if you forgot to do something, next time you're like, oh, I can't forget to do that. And if those
things, if those unfortunate failures don't happen to you, then you're not as aware of those things.
Right. So that's something that I felt like I had to learn. And I had to learn through, like,
other people, like, someone is like, oh, my crown didn't fit. And I was like, oh, wow, like,
what did you do? Like, did you use the occlude spray? Like, did you use fit checker? Because I
never physically had to do that, which is like, again, very grateful that my crowns fit. But I
didn't get that experience of learning how to fix it, which I think is very valuable. Like, I almost
feel like it should be like one crown has to not fit. Your denture has to not have enough
retention so that you know how to fix those. Because now I'm figuring it out in residency.
And I think, so like, around my office, there's a couple doctors there. And I know
most of the time, they're able to figure it out by themselves, like, probably like 95%,
90%. Yeah. But there's always a couple patients where they ask someone else, ask one of the
doctors to come in and take a look. And like, that's when you kind of see these heads colliding,
like, they even though they're maybe five, six years out of dental school, residency stuff,
they still need to have those failure, like not failures, but they need to experience someone
else's failures. Yeah. They need to consult with somebody who has had the opportunity to fail
before and know what to do so they can show them what's going on. So kind of like relates to what
you're saying. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So like another question I have is, you know,
we ask all of our guests this just because it's very interesting to me. So how did it feel going
from Typhid Donson, like those Maddickans that, you know, we see dental students practice on
dirt on Instagram pages. It's like an actual person, actually, being like, what, what were those
feelings like? And you know, how'd you kind of approach that? Yeah, it's really scary. But I
think this comes to like, I definitely want another piece of advice, like preclin. It's like a running
joke, but like indirect vision, right? So like everyone's like, you should practice indirect
vision, like whatever. But when you're at an exam, or you're taking your CDCA boards,
we're all hunched over, we're all looking like this, like, because you don't want to fail your
exam because you're like mirrors, not, you know, but now that I'm doing real dentistry and I want
to preserve my back and I want to have a long career and whatnot, I really wish that I just
force myself that I would just come in on the weekend and be like, I cannot do direct vision,
I have to use the mirror, like, I should have pushed myself more. So this is kind of an advice
for everyone going forward. I know that in the moment, you just want to like, you just want to
look and you, and you don't really prioritize your own back and neck for that moment. But I think
that I kind of wish I did, right? And then going from type it on to where everything is all perfect
to going clinic to the clinic where, you know, your class twos, they don't have a perfect contact,
right? Like the teeth are all rotated. And now you're just like, wait a second, I only know how
to put the V3 matrix on when there's like a perfect contact. So now you kind of, you don't feel
prepared, like you never really feel prepared. And then now in residency, no one is telling me like,
oh, that's a cavity, because most of the time in dental school, you do you go through the motions
and the attending is like, okay, you're going to do a 2DO and you write down 2DO. Did I see that
2DO prior to presenting this to the faculty? Like, no, you, you know, and there's always, we always
laugh about this. So many moments where they ask you what your findings are, and you're like,
oh, there's a cavity on this, this, this. And then they're like, oh, and you saw the thing on 18
occlusal. And you're like, yeah, totally dead. Like, and then you write it down and you're like,
what? Like, I thought that was just like normal and out of any. Now in residency, no one is
checking it for you. So I'm treatment planning, I'm going with it, I'm hoping I'm doing it right.
And I, and I again, hold that down the line. Like, maybe I missed some decay, let's say.
But then I start writing the note and I was like, wait, I missed that. So then I had to call the
patient back after I told them that they didn't have any cavities and be like, actually, I was
looking a little bit more into the radiographs. And I do see something that's questionable. So I
do need you to come in. So it's like, did I mess up? Yeah, I feel like I probably should have seen
that. But at the same time, like now no one's really checking that for you. And you kind of have
to be okay with making those clinical decisions, which is something that I'm working on right now.
But I would really as a dental student try really to try making those decisions yourself. And then
being like, do you agree, doctor, as opposed to just them being like, that one needs a crown
and not asking why? Why does that one need a crown and not an MOD amalgam or an MOD in lay,
whatever? Those are the questions that I never really asked in dental school. And I feel like I
should have. Because in dental school, you're just, you're like, oh, can I have the PBS and you see
everyone else is using the green one. So you're like, oh, can I have the green one, but you don't
really understand why you're using the green one, the heavy body over the medium body, you know.
Sorry, I know for the pre-dental students, it might not be as like, because it's a little bit more
technical, but the whole point of it is just to kind of get the most out of the dental school
experience. Yeah. Yeah, I know you're talking like really like beyond. I know. Yeah. But you know,
but still, but like, it all goes back to the central question, like, ask why, you know, even
if like, it even goes back to like shadowing or something, even if you shadow, like, I know
I shadowed a lot before I started assisting. Yeah. In the beginning, I was kind of hesitant to like
ask the doctor, what's going on? Like, what's this? Just because like, it's new to you, just kind of
want to see a little bit, but you realize that like, when you're shadowing, you don't see a lot
because they're crowding the area. So you got your, it's either you're forced to ask the question,
or you just go home, you have no idea what that is. Right. And if you ask the question, maybe you
can build a relationship with a doctor. So like asking why it goes like a long way. So it's definitely
like, if you practice that like in undergraduate or even if you're in high school right now,
if you practice in a high school, undergraduate, whatever, then you can probably be more comfortable
asking it while you're like in dental school. Right. So, and it also applies like classes too,
like why does this have, why does this reaction and orgo happens? I had no idea sometimes. I had to
ask why did you get a better idea. So like, you know, you touched on residency a little bit.
So I just kind of want to ask a little bit more, like, how was your process getting into
residency? And now you're like in D3, or you apply residency? Yeah. So you apply right before
you become a D4. So during that summer, it's very similar to applying to dental schools. So for
anyone who thinks it's over, and the D8, okay, for anyone who thinks the DAT is the last like
big exam they take, lies, okay, so you have to take board exams. And then if you want to do like
fellowships, there's just always more. And I think having an understanding that that's the reality
is going to be step one. In terms of applying, it looks just like AdSes. It literally same layout,
same idea stuff. But now you're just applying to residency programs. And there's still a personal
statement. They're still going to ask you why do you want to pursue residency? And you can't really
recycle the same personal statement, obviously, but it's the same process of like spending time
writing up your like CV and like all the things that you've done. So it never really ends. And I
don't mean that in like a sad kind of way, but it's kind of like you get to do this process again,
but you get to be better at it with more experience. And I actually I did a lot of research. So during
COVID, there was a lot of webinars, panels, things like that. I literally had a conversation, every
single program that I applied to, I had talked to someone from that program who graduated or
something like that, because I wanted to get real life experience with like the how happy they were.
Little things like with dental school, something I didn't mention is you want to like if you want to
specialize or not, you can go to a school that doesn't have post grad programs, right? So if you go
to one of those schools, then you get to do more as a dental student, but you don't get to see
the different specialties in action. So at Stony Brook, we have every single specialty. So we have
rotations where we hang out with a perio residence, we hang out with the OS residence,
you know, Peds, things like that. That's good. But you don't do as many root canals because
the endo residents are doing right. So these are all really good questions to ask yourself. Do you
want to do more? Like if you want to go into GP for sure, I would say maybe go to a program that has
no PG programs, right? Because you get to do more complex things yourself. If you know you want to
go into OS, for example, you want to start putting your door, your foot through the door and gain
those mentorships with those OS attendings who will then potentially take you into their OS program.
So same thing with residencies, you kind of have to understand what types of things you're looking
for. So I was looking to place implants. That's something that's really important to me. I want
to get like, I'm not trying to become an implant surgeon, but I want to get those things in a
residency setting where it's okay to, you know, have someone else see what you're doing. I wanted
to have endo. I wanted to have certain things and I did not want to see kids. Okay, I like love kids,
love playing with them, but I, that is not kind of what I plan on doing. And so that's why I ranked
a lot of like VA programs. So I applied to a lot of VA programs and that's something, you know,
there's no kids, but at the same time, there's no wisdom tooth extractions, right? So if you're trying,
or not as much, obviously. So there's always pros and cons to different things that you're
looking for. You just have to know what you want. So that's kind of the whole spiel on
residencies. It's the same thing. You have to do your research, you interview, you have to have a C.V.
personal statement. It's really the same thing if you choose to do a residency.
Awesome. So Dr. Kim, why did you choose general practice residency over specializing in another
specialty? Yeah. So I think the things that I really like doing, I see myself teaching at some
point down the line. And I like being the orchestrator when it comes to a patient, right?
So a patient comes in and let's say they have perio disease. I don't feel like I need to be the person
to treat their perio disease, because then I can't really do their endo and I can't really do their
other things, right? I like this idea of understanding the whole treatment plan. And I'm perfectly okay
doing the things that I feel comfortable doing and then sending them to the specialist that could
give them the high quality care that they need. But then down the line, they still come back to me
for that recall for all of the other dentistry. And I think you get a little bit more relationship
building with them. So it's kind of like you're delegating. I like that. You're orchestrating
their whole treatment plan and you're working with other team members. And then of course,
I think with general, you can do the things that you're trained to do. So down the line,
I do an implant fellowship, for example, I hope I would feel comfortable placing some of the
straightforward cases. I'm not going to be doing some crazy stuff. But I think that being a specialist
is actually limiting in a way where you can only do those things. Like you go into endo, you won't
necessarily be prepping crowns or whatever. And I like a little bit of everything. So that's kind of,
and I wanted to do more complex procedures that Stony Brook or any dental schools don't really
give you. So that's kind of why I wanted to do a GPR. But I think everyone's super different. If you
can see yourself doing endo every single day, and like that super excites you, that's awesome,
because there's a lot of instant gratification when it comes to endo, people, you just get them out
of pain and they're like really happy with you. And that's great. But I think for general practice,
I can see myself building that relationship and having them come back to me each time to move
along that process. Yeah. Yeah. So have you had those experiences like so far? I know you just
graduated, right? Like a couple months ago. Yeah. How was your experience with residence
been so far? Like what's your schedule throughout the day? Like how does it, you know,
Yeah. I mean, when I was talking about the transition, it has been rough. Like I'm not
gonna lie. I was going into residency thinking that it's going to be a 745 to 415 kind of day,
and then you're done, and then you go and like you do your thing, you focus on your wellness,
that sort of thing. So right now, this past month, it takes a really long time to learn the new
system. You're not using AXIUM anymore. Like all the systems are really different. And you're writing
notes in a different way, because it's like you feel more accountability and responsibility for
the treatment that you do. So we don't do lab work. We don't like have to do some of like the
stupid things that dental students have to do. But at the same time, there's a lot more to be done.
So I think that my JPR, you know, I've done biopsies, we've done Botox. It's very OS heavy.
So I get a chance to like do those things myself, typically that in other cases, it would go straight
to the OS resident. So our program, basically, we work with OS residents who are 5th years,
second and fifth years at Penn. So I take on the patient, I start extracting or doing whatever.
But if I have any questions, or someone needs to bail me out, there is someone to do that for me.
So it's not like you get to try it, but you also have the safety of someone helping you.
So I don't feel like they're like stealing cases. It's a very like natural progression. People just
like see different patients. I've done more endo than I've done in the four years of dental school,
and I've done more extractions that I've done in the fourth year of dental school, like things move
a lot faster. With that said, right now, it's a crazy transition. You're on call a lot of times,
and you're doing things that you don't know, like you were never formally trained to do some things.
But through repetition, you just get a little bit better each time. So no one's going to teach you
exactly how to do an incision and drainage. But after the third time, you kind of understand
how to do it and you do it. Yeah. So how was the thing you mentioned, like, do you have to schedule
your own patients, right? For dental school or for residency? For now, like for residency now.
Yeah. So it's a little bit different with the VA system. So the VA system throughout all of the
VAs in the US, they use a special system. It is a little bit archaic, to be honest. And there's
a huge learning curve in terms of how to use it. The good thing, though, is that it integrates their
whole medical everything. So you know the last time they saw their neurologist, you know the last
time they got their blood work done. So you don't have to call the PCP and be like, hey, Mr. Jones
came in, like, can you tell us what's going on? You have all that information. So that's really good.
But with that said, there's a lot of like learning in terms of like the system that they use in general.
I forget. What was your question? Sorry. Like in terms of residency and like scheduling patients.
So yes, we schedule patients, but there's also a front desk who does that for you and you have
your own assistant. So you're not, yeah, like not like dental school. Right. So like what's, I don't
know, just last part of our residency. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's like the most interesting thing you've
seen so far? It's been a couple months, but like what's maybe most interesting, but also most
challenging thing that you've had to face? Yes, with the veteran population, how medically complex
they are, right? So in dental school, when you do extractions, it's very clear cut. Like if their
blood pressure is like a certain amount, like extraction gets canceled. If they have diabetes
and their like lab values are too high, you can't extract the two. Here it's like everyone is so
medically complex that the limits of what you can do is a little bit more doable. Like you still
have to provide that treatment, but you just have to be able to manage what happens with that. Right.
That's not something that I'm used to in dental school because you would have like one person
that came in with hypertension or one person that had diabetes and it was like the biggest thing ever.
And you, they sit in your chair and you just hope they're like blood pressure is
controlled enough here with the veteran population. I feel like they're just so medically complex that
it's so difficult to kind of, there's some people who've had cancer. There's so many different
patients that have had cancer. Again, so many biopsies to be done. I don't have like a necessarily
like one big case that I thought was particularly challenging because it's so early on that I can't
really see the progression of their treatment plan just yet. But I think just I'm a little,
the challenge to me is managing a patient that's so medically complex that normally
we would not see as pre-dox. So I never had the opportunity to manage a patient like that.
So there's definitely lots to learn from that standpoint. So all I'm hearing is there's never
anything learning and you just have to keep going. Yeah, yeah, that's a very good way to summarize it.
Yeah, cool. So I mean, the audience should know that you do offer like one-on-one mentoring
and tutoring advice about pre-dental process and everything about the pre-dental process.
So how can students get in touch with you? And if they have any further questions or if they just
want to start a connection with you? Yeah, totally. So Instagram would be the best place. So it is
dr.dianakim.dds and I have a link there. So basically what I like to do is do like a 30 minute
intro session where students can just tell me like what's going on and I can give them like
my feedback, like just tangible action items that I think can be addressed. And if they're kind of
into the way that, you know, we talk through things or if they get benefit from it, then we can set
up something that's a little bit more like bi-weekly or monthly and every single person's
mentoring is so different. There's some people that I check in every Sunday, hey, how's it going?
Like what's the progress report? What are your DAT scores look like? And then there's some people who
we only really focus on like the stress component of applying. There's some people that we just sit
down for an hour and we just edit their application. And I try to like put in synonyms of words that
are stronger than just what, you know, the pre-downs of students are coming up with because I think
you undervalue yourself when you use not strong words because everyone's assisting, but there's
a way to kind of describe it in a way that catches other people's eyes. So everyone is like super
different. There's not really like a structured way of doing it, but like monthly, bi-weekly, and
then some people do like a six-month thing where from January to June we meet once a month. And
that way like January, we talk about like letters of rep. February, we only do like DAT prepping,
like what the game plan is. And then like March, we only do like personal statement. That way it
kind of pushes the person to go along the timeline and be ready for that June submission date.
And then interview Proud, you know, stuff like that. Yeah. And yeah, we'll definitely put like
your socials in our posts on Instagram too. So like people want to reach out to you, definitely can.
So yeah, that's kind of all we have to discuss today. So that concludes this episode of Bill
Sudental Podcast. Thank you Dr. Kim for joining us and sharing your experiences and advice.
Your insight was definitely valuable to Nusha and I. We hope that it'll be the same for our
pre-to-the listeners. Everyone please, please feel free to reach out to Dr. Kim and our socials,
which we'll put on our Instagram posts if you have any further questions. And we thank everyone
for listening. And if you enjoyed today's episode, please be sure to follow us on Instagram and
Spotify and podcast now. And we'll see you next time for another Bill Sudental Podcast.